In article >,
"Jinx Minx" > wrote:

> I'll put a recommendation in for Monini brand if you want to step it up a
> reasonable notch. It's priced in the $10-$20 range and is quite good. A
> father of a friend of mine used to have an Italian food import business, and
> this is the brand that they recommended to me when I took my EVOO to the
> next level. Specifically, the Fruttato variation. I wouldn't waste it to
> cook with -- I reserve it for drizzling and bread.

I honestly use more olive oil raw than cooked any more.
Thanks for the recommendation. I am always up for an education. ;-)
And now that I eat less, quality is more important than quantity.

> I can't find that
> specific variety even in specialty stores here, so I'm left now ordering it
> online when I want it. I also use their Originale version which is more
> commonly found, but it isn't quite as good as the Fruttato for dipping
> purposes. Incidentally, the best olive oil I've ever had was also the
> cheapest! It was handmade by a family in Greece --OMG to die for. I cried
> when I used up the last of it. It forever changed how I look at olive oil.
>
> Jinx

Hm. I see I am going to have to invest in local experimentation!
Central Market has a rather large number of Olive Oils, then there is a
rather good importer on Lamar (Europa Deli) that has a lot of specialty
stuff.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

blake murphy wrote:

>On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:56:14 -0400, brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 06:06:41 -0600, Christine Dabney
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 16 May 2010 05:55:19 -0500, Omelet >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article >,
>>>> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>>>.
>>>>> The little bowls are cute, but it is a bit wasteful of good olive
>>>>> oil (which can run up to $60/liter).
>>>>>
>>>>> S.
>>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>Good gods, where are you shopping? I've never paid more than $8.00 per
>>>>Liter for good Olive Oil!
>>>
>>>Believe it or not Om, there is much, much, MUCH better olive oil out
>>>there to be had! I think once you have tasted such olive oil, and
>>>especially if you compared them side by side, you would see an
>>>incredible difference in quality. The one you buy now would probably
>>>suffer horribly in comparison. If you have never had really
>>>good/great olive oil, then you don't realize what you are missing.
>>>
>>>I can't afford a whole lot for good olive oil.... Here in NM, I
>>>usually get by with the Costco olive oil from Tuscany. When I am in
>>>northern California, I buy the olive oil from Bariani... It tends to
>>>run about $20/liter, but I think it is worth it. Still not top of
>>>the line, but it is decent olive oil. I get it straight from them at
>>>the farmers markets....
>>>
>>>And even I know there is much better olive oil out there to be had.
>>>And yes, it can be pricey. I wish I could afford it, as I love a
>>>really good olive oil.
>>
>> It may be more pricey but after $25/L it's not any better. I've
>> tasted estate olive oils that cost nearly $100/L but any superiority
>> over $25/L is purely subjective...
>
>what the hell else could it be?


Then according to your dumb mick ignorance $5/gallon olive oil is as
good as it gets. The price of olive oil has to do with how it's
manufactured; first cold press and several filterings to remove
sediment is as good as it gets... anything more that adds to cost has
nothing to do with actual olive oil, only how much one is willing to
pay for the snob appeal of fancy packaging/advertising. The mick can
shove a pimento in his mouth and a toothpick up his ass and masquerade
as a cheap pickled olive... with a pogo stick shoved up your ass and a
little practice you could hop around like a you had legs... hey Andy,
lookit him go... The Pogo Stick Mick! LOL

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> > <shrugs> It works for me... Pleasant, mild and light.
>
> Which is not what I like. I like spicy and nutty oils with definite
> territorial differences.
>
>
> > I can't help but wonder how many highly priced foods etc. are just for >
> > "snob value".
>
> There are probably some, but with oil I don't agree. It's definitely supply
> and demand. You will probably never even see some of the oils that are very
> prized here. They don't have enough to export them. Some NY gourmet shops
> try to get a little of each prizewinner (and that's only partly a way to
> judge as many places never enter competitions and there are hundreds of
> competitions) and they are sold in Italian shops in Little Italy or in Long
> Island neighborhoods mostly to Italians who do care.
> The way oil is produced means great differences in price. The amount
> produced matters. Recognition from bodies like Slow Food and Gambero Rosso
> matters.

Austin has quite a large "foodee" community. :-) I might get lucky.
As I said in my last post, I am always up for an education!

I eat a LOT less now than I used to so quality is more important than
quantity...

Same goes for dad.

Eating less volume means I can afford to spend more for quality
ingredients.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On 5/16/2010 11:55 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> Christine > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 05:55:19 -0500, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In >,
>>> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>> .
>>>> The little bowls are cute, but it is a bit wasteful of good olive
>>>> oil (which can run up to $60/liter).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> S.
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>> Good gods, where are you shopping? I've never paid more than $8.00 per
>>> Liter for good Olive Oil!
>>
>> Believe it or not Om, there is much, much, MUCH better olive oil out
>> there to be had! I think once you have tasted such olive oil, and
>> especially if you compared them side by side, you would see an
>> incredible difference in quality. The one you buy now would probably
>> suffer horribly in comparison. If you have never had really
>> good/great olive oil, then you don't realize what you are missing.
>>
>> I can't afford a whole lot for good olive oil.... Here in NM, I
>> usually get by with the Costco olive oil from Tuscany. When I am in
>> northern California, I buy the olive oil from Bariani... It tends to
>> run about $20/liter, but I think it is worth it. Still not top of
>> the line, but it is decent olive oil. I get it straight from them at
>> the farmers markets....
>>
>> And even I know there is much better olive oil out there to be had.
>> And yes, it can be pricey. I wish I could afford it, as I love a
>> really good olive oil.
>>
>> Christine
>
> I'm not sure I want to know the difference if I have to pay that for it.
> <g> Even tho' a Liter lasts me a good month. I just don't cook a lot
> with oil any more as I mostly bake/roast/bbq/grill or steam stuff. I
> mostly use Olive oil to top dress veggies to get herbages to stick to
> them.

But they have different uses. Since the better quality is used for
finishing/dipping etc you use significantly less than the "standard
quality" stuff you use for cooking.

>
> I think the health benefits of good fats work better if you eat them
> uncooked???

On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:57:17 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote
>> >> The little bowls are cute, but it is a bit wasteful of good olive
>> >> oil (which can run up to $60/liter).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> S.
>> >> Steve
>> >
>> > Good gods, where are you shopping? I've never paid more than $8.00 per
>> > Liter for good Olive Oil!
>> > --
>> > Peace! Om
>>
>> Like wines, oils can range considerably in price. Like wines, some are very
>> overpriced. Thee are differences though, and while I've never paid $60,
>> I've paid over $20 for really good oil.
>
>Is there really that big of a difference? I may try it, but I'd need
>some brand advice!
>
>I'm one of those that thinks that many inexpensive wines are just as
>good (if not better in flavor) than the wines priced beyond my means...

You're close to Austin aren't you? Go to this place and taste some
olive oils. http://www.conolios.com/ My DD has an olive oil bar
close to her and she says she was amazed by how different they tasted.
I was gifted with a lovely *small* bottle of "dipping oil" after she
tasted them.

>I've tasted $150.00 per flagon Champagne at a party (just once,
>granted!) and it was absolutely VILE.

Sounds like you're not a champagne drinker. If you like your bubbly
sweet, the expensive stuff isn't for you. Try Asti Spumante sometime,
you might like it better.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Omelet > wrote:
>
> >I can check in Austin. There is quite a food community there.
>
> Yep. The problem is all the overpriced, underwhelming olive oils,
> confusing your selection process.
>
> It's a real problem because when you buy say a $40 bottle of
> olive oil and it's not excellent enough to be a finishing oil,
> you probably also can't cook with it as it will have too low a smoke
> point.
>
> Steve

Which is why I asked for brand advice!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
George > wrote:

> > I'm not sure I want to know the difference if I have to pay that for it.
> > <g> Even tho' a Liter lasts me a good month. I just don't cook a lot
> > with oil any more as I mostly bake/roast/bbq/grill or steam stuff. I
> > mostly use Olive oil to top dress veggies to get herbages to stick to
> > them.
>
> But they have different uses. Since the better quality is used for
> finishing/dipping etc you use significantly less than the "standard
> quality" stuff you use for cooking.

I understand that...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:00:21 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>A $13,000 Chevy S-10 pickup truck (circa 1998) gets 23 miles per gallon
>and gets me to and from work every day. Why do I need a $30.000 BMW to
>perform the same function?

That is soooo easy to answer: because it gets you there in *style*!

When push comes to shove, I'm practical because cars are just
transportation to me... but I do love getting all dressed up and
riding in a nice (expensive) vehicle on occasion.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Omelet > wrote:

> (Steve Pope) wrote:

>> It's a real problem because when you buy say a $40 bottle of
>> olive oil and it's not excellent enough to be a finishing oil,
>> you probably also can't cook with it as it will have too low a smoke
>> point.

>Which is why I asked for brand advice!

Okay I'll give that a shot. Not brands, but look for the
following importers:

Neal Rosenthal
Stephen Singer
Marc deGrazia.

I am of course talking Italian olive oil. If you want to
narrow down your search, you can start by narrowing it down
to just Italy.

For example, here is a Neal Rosenthal import from Umbria
possibly worth checking out, but I have not tried it:

http://www.madrose.com/store/bea/bea.html

Steve

>In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> "Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Lew Hodgett > wrote:
>> >
>> >>"$8.00/liter olive oil" and "good olive oil" are mutually exclusive
>> >>terms IMHO.
>> >
>> > Not necessarily. I mentioned $60/liter but that's a random figure
>> > equal to the most I have spent on olive oil recently. I have
>> > bought only 1/2 liter of said oil in the past year; I'm currently
>> > getting by on a $20/liter oil for salads/finishing/etc. but it's
>> > not quite as good.
>> >
>> > Steve
>>
>> Like most items, as the price goes up, the quality goes up less so. Be it
>> the models of cars, electronics, or food, for every 10% increase in cost the
>> quality or value goes up about half that. Is a $60 bottle of oil three
>> times better than a $20? Or is a $60,000 car three times better than a
>> $20,000 one? Of course not. Eye of the beholder.

Actually not a good analogy. After like $25/L olive oil doesn't get
any better, and in typical use there really isn't a whole lot of
difference in olive oils anyway. But there's a big difference between
a $20,000 automobile (any brand) and a $60,000 automobile (any brand).
Actually there aren't many automobiles one can buy and drive out of
the showroom for under $20,000.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 12:08:52 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>Which is why I asked for brand advice!

They wouldn't be national. Go to that olive oil bar I told you about
in a different post. It's in Austin.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

sf > wrote:

>You're close to Austin aren't you? Go to this place and taste some
>olive oils. http://www.conolios.com/ My DD has an olive oil bar
>close to her and she says she was amazed by how different they tasted.
>I was gifted with a lovely *small* bottle of "dipping oil" after she
>tasted them.

There are a number of such establishments scattered around the
U.S., such as O&CO in Century City. The oil is no doubt good,
but by creating their own labels and marketing direct to retail
they have pretty fantastical markups, and there is no way to
comparison shop.

You're paying for the entire overhead of a low-foot-traffic
retail shop selling just olive oil. So you're not likely to get
an excellent bargain. OTOH it might save you a lot of time
relative to visiting every yuppie reatiler and wine shop
in Austin.

Steve

Christine Dabney wrote:

> I can't afford a whole lot for good olive oil.... Here in NM, I
> usually get by with the Costco olive oil from Tuscany. When I am in
> northern California, I buy the olive oil from Bariani... It tends to
> run about $20/liter, but I think it is worth it. Still not top of
> the line, but it is decent olive oil. I get it straight from them at
> the farmers markets....

Not sure if you've been to the Bariani site recently, but they have a
slough of places in Cali that carry it besides the farmers market. All
the Whole Foods in NorCal have it (and I could have sworn I've seen it
in Raley's or Safeway before, too). You can order it straight from
Bariani or Amazon for that matter -- which in some item listings shows
it cheaper than from Bariani directly.

http://www.barianioliveoil.com/retail.php

They have a place in Albuquerque that supposedly carries it, but I can't
find much about a company called, "SEEKING HEALTH WITH EARNEST PRODUCT"
at 4808 Mesa Prieta. There were several places close to where you were
staying that carry it! LOL! No need for the farmers market.

I took a look at the product list and you can actually buy Manzanillo
olive trees from them.

http://www.barianioliveoil.com/products.php

We also like the Costco Tuscany olive oil. Nice value for a decent product.

--Lin

On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:48:43 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:
>
>There's a small restaurant near me that has an oil cart, like a cheese cart
>of dessert cart. On it are all the famous regional types.
>
That is so cool! It's a great way to learn about the various olive
oils! If the restaurant also retailed the olive oils, that would be a
good marketing strategy.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 15:51:39 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:

>No, that's not what I mean. You may be right that I overstated the time
>period a bit. Upon reflection I would ammend that statement to 20-25 years;
>most likely around 1986, since that is when I began travelling to San
>Francisco regularly. The first time I recall EVOO for dipping was at an
>up-scale Italian restaurant in San Francisco, mid-to-late 80s. It was on,
>or just off, Columbus Ave.; was somewhat dark and had cured hams hanging
>throughout the restaurant. The EVOO was brought to the table with the bread
>basket and bread plates; the server poured a bit of EVOO in the bread plate
>then used a pepper grinder over it. The bread was foccacia, though other
>places, other times the bread for dipping has been crusty Italian.

You're probably talking about the North Beach restaurant, which has
been remodeled since then. They cure their own hams and hang them
downstairs in one room. One restaurant is not a trend.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 09:02:09 -0700, gtr > wrote:

>On 2010-05-16 07:43:15 -0700, sf said:
>
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 13:50:01 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:
>>
>>> While a trend may be developing among some Italian restaurants, this
>>> practice has been in place at many excellent restaurants, nationwide (USA),
>>> for at least the 25-30 years I travelled regularly on business.
>>
>> They've been putting olive oil on the table for 25-30 years? They
>> used to have oil and vinegar on the table for salads, if that's what
>> you mean.
>
>I've been in Italian restaurants in southern California where they
>offer to pour evoo and balsamic vinegar into a little dipping bowl for
>their bread for at least 20 years. That's when I moved here. It's
>neither fad nor trend, it seems pretty much locked down.

I guess we frequent different Italian restaurants. I mostly have to
ask for the olive oil where I go. It's always a pleasant surprise
when they bring olive oil instead of butter with the bread... or
better yet, it's already on the table with the salt and pepper.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 15:51:39 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:
>
>>No, that's not what I mean. You may be right that I overstated the time
>>period a bit. Upon reflection I would ammend that statement to 20-25
>>years;
>>most likely around 1986, since that is when I began travelling to San
>>Francisco regularly. The first time I recall EVOO for dipping was at an
>>up-scale Italian restaurant in San Francisco, mid-to-late 80s. It was on,
>>or just off, Columbus Ave.; was somewhat dark and had cured hams hanging
>>throughout the restaurant. The EVOO was brought to the table with the
>>bread
>>basket and bread plates; the server poured a bit of EVOO in the bread
>>plate
>>then used a pepper grinder over it. The bread was foccacia, though other
>>places, other times the bread for dipping has been crusty Italian.
>
> You're probably talking about the North Beach restaurant, which has
> been remodeled since then. They cure their own hams and hang them
> downstairs in one room. One restaurant is not a trend.
>
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.

It was also offered in non-chain restaurants here 20 years ago as an
accompaniment to bread. Not sure I'd label it a "trend", but definitely not
an anomaly.

Jinx

sf > wrote:

>You're probably talking about the North Beach restaurant, which has
>been remodeled since then. They cure their own hams and hang them
>downstairs in one room. One restaurant is not a trend.

There definitely has been a 20-plus-year-old trend among California
restaurants, as well as among individuals dining at home,
of placing olive oil out in little bowls.

I would also say that sometime in the past decade, the trend
got weaker and more restaurants went back to putting out
butter instead. I suspect this cycles based on the current pop-science
belief of whether butter is bad for you. Currently, the
belief is it's not bad for you. Oliveto, for example, went
back to butter.

There may also be an association with restaurants not supplying
bread plates. (Chez Panisse being the big proponent of this...
do they still not have bread plates?) With no bread plate, it
is too messy to try to pour oil from a cruet onto your bread,
so the dipping bowls become more of a necesssity.

Steve

On Sun, 16 May 2010 16:28:26 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>It's a waste too. Think of all the EVOO and basalmic they
>must be throwing out. (Assuming they're complying with
>the health code...)
>
>Actual Italians use cruets.

I don't like the idea of bowls of olive oil either and I was shocked
the first time they put one on the table. I like to pour it onto my
plate (*no* balsamic) and treat it with a little salt. Hubby doesn't
want any salt, but he likes balsamic. Bowls also mean more dishes to
wash.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:26:52 -0700, Lin
> wrote:

>Christine Dabney wrote:
>
>> I can't afford a whole lot for good olive oil.... Here in NM, I
>> usually get by with the Costco olive oil from Tuscany. When I am in
>> northern California, I buy the olive oil from Bariani... It tends to
>> run about $20/liter, but I think it is worth it. Still not top of
>> the line, but it is decent olive oil. I get it straight from them at
>> the farmers markets....
>
>Not sure if you've been to the Bariani site recently, but they have a
>slough of places in Cali that carry it besides the farmers market. All
>the Whole Foods in NorCal have it (and I could have sworn I've seen it
>in Raley's or Safeway before, too). You can order it straight from
>Bariani or Amazon for that matter -- which in some item listings shows
>it cheaper than from Bariani directly.

Yes, I have been there many times. I like to get it at the farmers
market, cause the price is several dollars cheaper by buying it direct
from them. Believe me, I checked it out already. LOL.
>
>http://www.barianioliveoil.com/retail.php
>
>They have a place in Albuquerque that supposedly carries it, but I can't
>find much about a company called, "SEEKING HEALTH WITH EARNEST PRODUCT"
>at 4808 Mesa Prieta. There were several places close to where you were
>staying that carry it! LOL! No need for the farmers market.
>
>I took a look at the product list and you can actually buy Manzanillo
>olive trees from them.
>
>http://www.barianioliveoil.com/products.php
>
>We also like the Costco Tuscany olive oil. Nice value for a decent product.

Yes, I get that when I can't get other olive oils..

christine
..

Janet wrote on Sun, 16 May 2010 18:59:47 +0100:

>> In article >,
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> >> "Steve Pope" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> > >> Lew Hodgett > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> "$8.00/liter olive oil" and "good olive oil" are
> > >>> mutually exclusive terms IMHO.
> > >>
> > >> Not necessarily. I mentioned $60/liter but that's a
> > >> random figure equal to the most I have spent on olive oil
> > >> recently. I have bought only 1/2 liter of said oil in
> > >> the past year; I'm currently getting by on a $20/liter
> > >> oil for salads/finishing/etc. but it's not quite as good.
> > >>
> > >> Steve
> >>
> >> Like most items, as the price goes up, the quality goes up
> >> less so. Be it the models of cars, electronics, or food,
> >> for every 10% increase in cost the quality or value goes up
> >> about half that. Is a $60 bottle of oil three times better
> >> than a $20? Or is a $60,000 car three times better than a
> >> $20,000 one? Of course not. Eye of the beholder.

>> Or the beer holder...

>> A $13,000 Chevy S-10 pickup truck (circa 1998) gets 23 miles
>> per gallon and gets me to and from work every day. Why do I
>> need a $30.000 BMW to perform the same function?

> It may move you from the same A to the same B, but an
> expensive car may be much more enjoyable to travel in.
> The difference between basic and best OO is just as
> noticeable; in looks, flavour, scent.

> You're driving the Ford of OO. It's perfectly good enough and
> does the job, but there is a whole nother automotive and OO
> world out there.I have a theory that everybody should strive
> to experience the best and worst, of all the things they care
> about, at least once in their life, if only to recognise how
> much choice there is out there, decide where your own
> boundaries lie, and be happy in your own skin.

I've enjoyed driving sporty cars with a stick shift on vacation in
Switzerland but I don't regard regular driving in the US as a sport and
I wouldn't give up my automatic shift 4WD for stop and start city
driving or on the thruway.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:25:57 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>You're paying for the entire overhead of a low-foot-traffic
>retail shop selling just olive oil. So you're not likely to get
>an excellent bargain. OTOH it might save you a lot of time
>relative to visiting every yuppie reatiler and wine shop
>in Austin.

The main reason for suggesting that place was to educate her palate.
Your palate is already educated, so you know what you're looking for
in an EVOO - she doesn't. Tasting different olive oils *in one place*
so she won't forget what the others tasted like will help her on her
way. You're Italian and you visit Italy often, so you've got EVOO
palate development built into your life.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 12:53:42 -0500, "Jinx Minx" >
wrote:

>
>"sf" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 15:51:39 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:
>>
>>>No, that's not what I mean. You may be right that I overstated the time
>>>period a bit. Upon reflection I would ammend that statement to 20-25
>>>years;
>>>most likely around 1986, since that is when I began travelling to San
>>>Francisco regularly. The first time I recall EVOO for dipping was at an
>>>up-scale Italian restaurant in San Francisco, mid-to-late 80s. It was on,
>>>or just off, Columbus Ave.; was somewhat dark and had cured hams hanging
>>>throughout the restaurant. The EVOO was brought to the table with the
>>>bread
>>>basket and bread plates; the server poured a bit of EVOO in the bread
>>>plate
>>>then used a pepper grinder over it. The bread was foccacia, though other
>>>places, other times the bread for dipping has been crusty Italian.
>>
>> You're probably talking about the North Beach restaurant, which has
>> been remodeled since then. They cure their own hams and hang them
>> downstairs in one room. One restaurant is not a trend.
>>
>
>It was also offered in non-chain restaurants here 20 years ago as an
>accompaniment to bread. Not sure I'd label it a "trend", but definitely not
>an anomaly.
>
I'm saying olive oil was not commonly *ON* the table 20 years ago.
Sure, you could *ask* for it but it was not put on the table first.
Butter was the default for all bread, including North Beach Italian
restaurants.

EVOO on the table is not common now either (I usually have to ask for
it), but it's slowly becoming the default that comes with bread in
more Italian restaurants. The *trend* I like is that I can request it
in non-Italian restaurants and get it now.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:55:22 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>sf > wrote:
>
>>You're probably talking about the North Beach restaurant, which has
>>been remodeled since then. They cure their own hams and hang them
>>downstairs in one room. One restaurant is not a trend.
>
>There definitely has been a 20-plus-year-old trend among California
>restaurants, as well as among individuals dining at home,
>of placing olive oil out in little bowls.
>
>I would also say that sometime in the past decade, the trend
>got weaker and more restaurants went back to putting out
>butter instead. I suspect this cycles based on the current pop-science
>belief of whether butter is bad for you. Currently, the
>belief is it's not bad for you. Oliveto, for example, went
>back to butter.

Thanks for being honest.
>
>There may also be an association with restaurants not supplying
>bread plates. (Chez Panisse being the big proponent of this...
>do they still not have bread plates?) With no bread plate, it
>is too messy to try to pour oil from a cruet onto your bread,
>so the dipping bowls become more of a necesssity.
>
I hate that no bread plate thing. We ask for plates when they chintz
out. IMO since they're taking away bread plates, they need to give
their servers crumb sweepers and tell them to use it often.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 12:53:42 -0500, "Jinx Minx" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"sf" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 15:51:39 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>No, that's not what I mean. You may be right that I overstated the time
>>>>period a bit. Upon reflection I would ammend that statement to 20-25
>>>>years;
>>>>most likely around 1986, since that is when I began travelling to San
>>>>Francisco regularly. The first time I recall EVOO for dipping was at an
>>>>up-scale Italian restaurant in San Francisco, mid-to-late 80s. It was
>>>>on,
>>>>or just off, Columbus Ave.; was somewhat dark and had cured hams hanging
>>>>throughout the restaurant. The EVOO was brought to the table with the
>>>>bread
>>>>basket and bread plates; the server poured a bit of EVOO in the bread
>>>>plate
>>>>then used a pepper grinder over it. The bread was foccacia, though
>>>>other
>>>>places, other times the bread for dipping has been crusty Italian.
>>>
>>> You're probably talking about the North Beach restaurant, which has
>>> been remodeled since then. They cure their own hams and hang them
>>> downstairs in one room. One restaurant is not a trend.
>>>
>>
>>It was also offered in non-chain restaurants here 20 years ago as an
>>accompaniment to bread. Not sure I'd label it a "trend", but definitely
>>not
>>an anomaly.
>>
> I'm saying olive oil was not commonly *ON* the table 20 years ago.
> Sure, you could *ask* for it but it was not put on the table first.
> Butter was the default for all bread, including North Beach Italian
> restaurants.
>
> EVOO on the table is not common now either (I usually have to ask for
> it), but it's slowly becoming the default that comes with bread in
> more Italian restaurants. The *trend* I like is that I can request it
> in non-Italian restaurants and get it now.
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.

You didn't have to ask for it. It was brought *with* the bread, which was
brought to the table on first visit by the waitstaff before taking your
order. It was for bread, not salad. Butter was not given, but perhaps was
available for the asking. It certainly was not the default. I'm not
talking about mom and pop spaghetti/meatballs/red sauce/dark interior/red
checkered tablecloth Italian restaurants. l, not -l's experience is not
unique to that one particular restaurant as even here in the slow to trend
ya you betcha midwest it wasn't unheard of. That's all I'm sayin'.

Jinx

> wrote:

> It seems that the trend in Italian restaurants these days is an olive oil
> dip for bread instead of butter. More healthy, I would imagine. But the
> times I've had it and enjoyed it, all I could identify was the oil and
> what looked like red pepper flakes. What else do they normally put in? I'd
> like to make it at home. Thanks. (I know, I could ask at the restaurant!)

It is not such a new trend. I've been served such dips (almost always
complimentary) for literally decades and not just in Italian restaurants
but also in Provençal ones. Usually, it is just olive oil with some
salt and pepper, often served separately for self-mixing. Sometimes a
bit of lemon juice or vinegar is added. The whole idea might have come
from the Tuscan pinzimonio or cazzimperio from Latium, the same dip
served with raw vegetables.

Victor

On Sun, 16 May 2010 13:50:01 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:

>
>On 15-May-2010, wrote:
>
>> It seems that the trend in Italian restaurants these days is an olive oil
>> dip
>> for bread instead of butter. More healthy, I would imagine. But the times
>> I've
>> had it and enjoyed it, all I could identify was the oil and what looked
>> like red
>> pepper flakes. What else do they normally put in? I'd like to make it at
>> home.
>> Thanks. (I know, I could ask at the restaurant!)
>
>While a trend may be developing among some Italian restaurants, this
>practice has been in place at many excellent restaurants, nationwide (USA),
>for at least the 25-30 years I travelled regularly on business. Even
>lesser restaurants, such as the chain Macaroni Grill, have been doing it for
>quite a while.
>
>Some, simply place a bottle of EVOO on the table alongside the salt shaker
>and small pepper mill. Others add red pepper flakes, as you mentioned; but,
>my favorite is EVOO and balsamic vinegar. I like EVOO and balsamic so
>much, that is what I serve at home, alongside roasted garlic for those who
>prefer. I bought one of those double cruets
>(http://www.cruets.com/ProdImages/0015.jpg) for serving - other than being a
>bit hard to clean, I think it is a great way to present and takes up less
>table real-estate.

Dang, that is gorgeous, I want one. Like I have room for one, but I
want one.

koko
--

There is no love more sincere than the love of food
George Bernard Shaw

www.kokoscornerblog.com
updated 05/09/10

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> >I'm one of those that thinks that many inexpensive wines are just as
> >good (if not better in flavor) than the wines priced beyond my means...
>
> You're close to Austin aren't you? Go to this place and taste some
> olive oils. http://www.conolios.com/ My DD has an olive oil bar
> close to her and she says she was amazed by how different they tasted.
> I was gifted with a lovely *small* bottle of "dipping oil" after she
> tasted them.

Hm, thanks! Stored for reference. :-)
>
> >I've tasted $150.00 per flagon Champagne at a party (just once,
> >granted!) and it was absolutely VILE.
>
> Sounds like you're not a champagne drinker. If you like your bubbly
> sweet, the expensive stuff isn't for you. Try Asti Spumante sometime,
> you might like it better.
>
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I do indeed prefer Spumante Champagne. This stuff was Brut. Yuck!
And I even enjoy many dry wines...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:00:21 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >A $13,000 Chevy S-10 pickup truck (circa 1998) gets 23 miles per gallon
> >and gets me to and from work every day. Why do I need a $30.000 BMW to
> >perform the same function?
>
> That is soooo easy to answer: because it gets you there in *style*!
>
> When push comes to shove, I'm practical because cars are just
> transportation to me... but I do love getting all dressed up and
> riding in a nice (expensive) vehicle on occasion.

I'd like it too, but it's just not a priority. <g>
But I do understand your point of view!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

wrote:
> It seems that the trend in Italian restaurants these days is an olive oil dip
> for bread instead of butter. More healthy, I would imagine. But the times I've
> had it and enjoyed it, all I could identify was the oil and what looked like red
> pepper flakes. What else do they normally put in? I'd like to make it at home.
> Thanks. (I know, I could ask at the restaurant!)


Years ago a CArrabbas server listed these ingredients.
(Measurements according to taste)

Basil
Oregano
Rosemary
(Thyme, optional)
Red pepper flakes, just a little
Granulated garlic
Sea or Kosher salt
Fresh ground black pepper

Mix well, put a spoonful in a small shallow dish,
add some fresh chopped garlic and olive oil.

gloria p

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Omelet > wrote:
>
> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> >> It's a real problem because when you buy say a $40 bottle of
> >> olive oil and it's not excellent enough to be a finishing oil,
> >> you probably also can't cook with it as it will have too low a smoke
> >> point.
>
> >Which is why I asked for brand advice!
>
> Okay I'll give that a shot. Not brands, but look for the
> following importers:
>
> Neal Rosenthal
> Stephen Singer
> Marc deGrazia.
>
> I am of course talking Italian olive oil. If you want to
> narrow down your search, you can start by narrowing it down
> to just Italy.
>
> For example, here is a Neal Rosenthal import from Umbria
> possibly worth checking out, but I have not tried it:
>
> http://www.madrose.com/store/bea/bea.html
>
> Steve

Thanks! Those are not familiar to me, but Europa or Central Market
might carry them.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Steve Pope wrote:

>
> The little bowl of olive oil is a trend in the U.S., not in
> Italy particularly. There, there is more likely to be a small
> bottle of olive oil with a much larger amount of red pepper
> soaking in it. This may be called "olio forte". I know of
> no exact recipe.
>
> The little bowls are cute, but it is a bit wasteful of good olive
> oil (which can run up to $60/liter).
>


A waste? The bowl never goes back to the kitchen with any oil
or herbs left in it from our table!

gloria p

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sun, 16 May 2010 12:08:52 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >Which is why I asked for brand advice!
>
> They wouldn't be national. Go to that olive oil bar I told you about
> in a different post. It's in Austin.

I stored that for reference. Thank you!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sun, 16 May 2010 17:25:57 +0000 (UTC),
> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> >You're paying for the entire overhead of a low-foot-traffic
> >retail shop selling just olive oil. So you're not likely to get
> >an excellent bargain. OTOH it might save you a lot of time
> >relative to visiting every yuppie reatiler and wine shop
> >in Austin.
>
> The main reason for suggesting that place was to educate her palate.
> Your palate is already educated, so you know what you're looking for
> in an EVOO - she doesn't. Tasting different olive oils *in one place*
> so she won't forget what the others tasted like will help her on her
> way. You're Italian and you visit Italy often, so you've got EVOO
> palate development built into your life.

And sf knows I'm always up for an education. ;-) I will report when I
go to finally visit there!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> Like most items, as the price goes up, the quality goes up less so. Be
> it the models of cars, electronics, or food, for every 10% increase in
> cost the quality or value goes up about half that. Is a $60 bottle of
> oil three times better than a $20? Or is a $60,000 car three times
> better than a $20,000 one? Of course not. Eye of the beholder.



That seems to be true for wine, also. We've had dinners with a Last of
the Big Spenders who loves $150+ a bottle wines. They don't taste all
that much better than $20/bottle wine to me.

gloria p

> wrote in message
...
> It seems that the trend in Italian restaurants these days is an olive oil
> dip
> for bread instead of butter. More healthy, I would imagine. But the times
> I've
> had it and enjoyed it, all I could identify was the oil and what looked
> like red
> pepper flakes. What else do they normally put in? I'd like to make it at
> home.
> Thanks. (I know, I could ask at the restaurant!)

I have this set:

http://www.amazon.com/Dean-Jacobs-6-...ref=pd_sbs_k_1

I really like the oil decanter and dishes but the seasonings are a little
salty. So you see, there is a wide variety of what to do with the oil for
dipping.

George wrote:

>
> I have been trying to promote a great mom & pop Mexican place that
> appeared here last year. They are from Oxaca and the quality of their
> food is fantastic. So far two different people have reported back that
> they didn't care for it because they didn't have an "applebees taco
> bowl" (whatever that is).
>


That kind of ignorance/lack of taste is hard to cure.

You should have mentioned that if it's at Applebees, it's not Mexican.

gloria p

In article >,
"gloria.p" > wrote:

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >
> > Like most items, as the price goes up, the quality goes up less so. Be
> > it the models of cars, electronics, or food, for every 10% increase in
> > cost the quality or value goes up about half that. Is a $60 bottle of
> > oil three times better than a $20? Or is a $60,000 car three times
> > better than a $20,000 one? Of course not. Eye of the beholder.
>
>
>
> That seems to be true for wine, also. We've had dinners with a Last of
> the Big Spenders who loves $150+ a bottle wines. They don't taste all
> that much better than $20/bottle wine to me.
>
> gloria p

I totally agree...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On Sun, 16 May 2010 15:06:25 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>sf > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 16 May 2010 13:50:01 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:
>
>>>While a trend may be developing among some Italian restaurants, this
>>>practice has been in place at many excellent restaurants, nationwide (USA),
>>>for at least the 25-30 years I travelled regularly on business.
>
>>They've been putting olive oil on the table for 25-30 years? They
>>used to have oil and vinegar on the table for salads, if that's what
>>you mean.
>
>I first noticed the dedicated olive-oil dipping bowls appearing in
>the housewares section of stores at around 1990. So, 20 years
>at least. Someone gave us one as a Christmas gift around then.
>We have (I think) never used it.

I've only seen them in sets. I've got 3 sets of four. Little tiny
ones so you can double dip! I don't buy $60 oil though. I'm happy
with the stuff for about 10 bucks. Sometimes we'll get stuff in
little 100ml. bottles that's flavored with basil or whatever. Little
gourmet type shops sell it and places like Cost-Plus and even TJ Max
sometimes have it. It doesn't do much for snob appeal and may not
compare to the real good stuff but it's good enough for me.

>A cruet of olive oil on the table is much more traditional.
>Those have been there as far back as I can remember.

Same here. It's not a new trend.

Lou

Ok, I'm no olive oil expert so give me your opinions on Pompeian extra
virgin, first cold press, product of Spain olive oil. I do like it,
but is my palate so unsophisticated that I don't know better??