In article > ,
Krypsis > wrote:

> On 26/06/2010 2:44 PM, Omelet wrote:
> > In >, >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/25/2010 8:13 AM, sf wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:47:51 -1000, > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm not a big fan of hybrid technology - it's way too complicated. The
> >>>> important part is that it's an intermediate step between gas and all
> >>>> electric cars. Internal combustion and hybrid cars and fuel cell cars
> >>>> are not the future - all electric is. Well that's just my guess.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not claiming hybrids are the future, but they are an excellent
> >>> transition.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I agree with you there. Without them, the acceptance of all electric
> >> would have taken a lot longer. The next couple of years will be big
> >> years for all electric.
> >
> > From ads I've see tho', all electric don't hold a charge well enough to
> > get you thru a major traffic jam from a bad wreck. I've been stuck for
> > up to two hours, not to mention the normal 30 to 60 minute commute.
>
> Apart from lights and instruments, the electrics don't consume much
> power when not moving! You only feed power when you need to move.
>
> Krypsis

But they still won't last 4 hours stuck in accident traffic on a real
commute. :-(
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article > ,
Krypsis > wrote:

> On 26/06/2010 2:51 PM, Omelet wrote:
> > In >,
> > "J. > wrote:
> >
> >> But how many of those motorcyclists were injured on a controlled-access
> >> highway?
> >
> > IMHO with donorcycles. all bets are off... especially if they are too
> > stubborn to wear helmets.
> >
> > My few weeks training at a major trauma blood bank taught me that,
> > especially with the recent Austin donorcycle rally.
>
> The new barriers that they are using on freeways and highways here are
> perfect to slice and dice your "donorcycles". They are replacing all the
> Armco Railings here with post and wire barriers. About the only thing
> that the new railings won't do is package up the remains.
>
> BTW, the remains will be less than useful for donating anything after a
> slice and dice!
>
> Krypsis

Morons...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:20:33 +1000, Krypsis >
wrote:

> Most people here call them "temporary Australians".

What the h*ll doe that mean? I understood "donorcycle" when I was
given context, but I don't get ""temporary Australians". I understand
that Australia is "down under", but what's temporary about death?

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 23:39:51 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

> We used to have a fenced off cliff locally where morons dove off and
> broke their necks. They kept breaking thru the fencing.
>
> Without exception (in the 23 years I worked there), alcohol was always
> involved...

Sounds like vehicular suicide to me, not a lack of intelligence.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:16:48 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> wrote:

>
> From the description it sounds like he's using a proper laboratory
> instrument and not some piece of consumer crap.

Why the f*ck bring it up here then? Who cares if it's not universally
available? I don't.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:30:14 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> On 6/25/2010 3:06 PM, Andy wrote:
> >
> > Aside from a driver and passenger there's not much room for much else.
> > You certainly wouldn't make a Costco run in one.
>
> You certainly wouldn't - especially if you like to buy paper products in
> bulk.
>
I'm sure there is some sort of trailer you can hitch up if you need to
cart home volumes of goods from Costco.



--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:23:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> wrote:

> On 6/25/2010 2:20 PM, sf wrote:
>
> > Maybe some other resident of my city has better information, but
> > as far as I know we don't have stations that sell hydrogen or any
> > other alternate fuel within the city limits.
>
> Check again. Most major cities have a purveyor of industrial gases.
> It's just not listed as an automotive filling station.

You don't live here so you don't know, so stop shooting off your
mouth.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:08:55 +1000, Krypsis >
wrote:

> I laugh at those who suggest the electric cars (plug in overnight types)
> are going to solve the emissions problems. You see, all our electricity
> is generated, in my home state at least, by dirty brown coal generators.
> All that's going to happen is a transferrence of pollution to where the
> generators are.

I don't know about "most people", but my vision of the perfect
electric car has never been a plug in type - it's always solar.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:55:00 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

> But they still won't last 4 hours stuck in accident traffic on a real
> commute. :-(

Holy cr*p! 4 hours stuck in traffic? Don't Texans know how to turn
off their engines when they are stuck at a stand still?

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:13:00 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> wrote:

> controlled-access highway?

What the H*LL is a controlled-access highway? A payway?

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On 6/25/2010 9:05 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:30:14 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> On 6/25/2010 3:06 PM, Andy wrote:
>>>
>>> Aside from a driver and passenger there's not much room for much else.
>>> You certainly wouldn't make a Costco run in one.
>>
>> You certainly wouldn't - especially if you like to buy paper products in
>> bulk.
>>
> I'm sure there is some sort of trailer you can hitch up if you need to
> cart home volumes of goods from Costco.

Gosh, I'd sure like to see that! A Smartcar with a cute little trailer
would be just adorable!

>
>
>

On 6/25/2010 2:27 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

> In other words people a hundred years from now will live in a smaller
> world where someone in Hartford doesn't date someone in New Haven, for
> example (electric cars don't have the range for that).
>
> I think that in the long run efficiency will be sacrificed for utility
> and they'll just make and burn hydrogen, which eliminates all of the
> shortcomings of battery electrics and with a suitable carburetor works
> fine in conventional gasoline engines besides.

In other words people in a hundred years from now will be driving
carbureted, internal-combustion, piston engines? That's so groovy, man! :-)

sf wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:16:48 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
>> From the description it sounds like he's using a proper laboratory
>> instrument and not some piece of consumer crap.
>
> Why the f*ck bring it up here then? Who cares if it's not universally
> available? I don't.
>
Flow meters are used extensively in industrial processing, and available
almost anywhere. Go see your local instrumentation supplier, they'll be
able to help you.

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:08:55 +1000, Krypsis >
> wrote:
>
> I don't know about "most people", but my vision of the perfect
> electric car has never been a plug in type - it's always solar.

Nobody can drive on a cloudy day? Sounds like a plan, might reduce
traffic jams a bit.

On 6/25/2010 9:06 PM, Andy wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> On 6/25/2010 1:34 PM, Dan Abel wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/24/2010 11:17 PM, Dan Abel wrote:
>>>>> In >,
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Smart car looks startlingly small in person. You'd think it
>>>>>> was a lightweight, electric car but it's not. At 1800 lb it seems
>>>>>> awful heavy and why put in a gas engine in a micro car in this day
>>>>>> and age?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because US buyers want gas guzzlers. The smart car in Europe came
>>>>> with a tiny turbodiesel. Fuel mileage was unbelievable, but
>>>>> acceleration was not good. They knew it wouldn't sell in the US,
>>>>> so they didn't even try, and instead put in a gas engine with twice
>>>>> the power, since gas is so cheap in the US that buyers don't care
>>>>> that much about fuel mileage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it is that simple. Plenty of US drivers want, buy and
>>>> drive normal cars.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what you mean by a "normal" car. I was being a little
>>> silly, but the smart car in the US comes with a 1.0 liter, 70HP 3
>>> cylinder engine, which gets 33 city/41 highway (2010 EPA estimated).
>>> Sure, that's twice the horsepower of the European model, but it's
>>> still pretty small for a car in the US. dsi1 wanted to know why they
>>> even put a gas engine in it.
>>>
>>
>> The Europeans have misread the US automobile market yet again. The
>> buyers of this kind of car are only interested in one thing: getting
>> the highest MPG that they can get. The car looks like an ultralight,
>> high MPG car but doesn't deliver. That's the breaks.
>
>
> There was a Smart car parked next to me at the supermarket. I think it
> was a targa top car.
>
> Aside from a driver and passenger there's not much room for much else.
> You certainly wouldn't make a Costco run in one.
>
> I was curious to ask a Smart car owner how it handled in the winter on
> snow covered roads in the hills of Pennsylvania. I picture it parked for
> the winter.
>
> Andy

Both of my friends live in the hills of Pennsylvania and the Smartcar
performs really well in the snow. I think the constant SUV marketing has
created a perception that unless we have a mammoth SUV we can only drive
on fair weather days.

On 6/26/2010 12:42 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:49:54 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Fuel cell _is_ all electric. You just charge the battery by putting
>>> hydrogen in it instead of hooking wires to it.
>>>
>>> And when I'm stuck in traffic in a New England winter, a big tank of
>>> hydrogen is a _much_ more reassuring heat source than a half-discharged
>>> battery.
>>
>> It's pretty hard to drive a hydrogen car if you can't find the fuel it
>> up. Maybe some other resident of my city has better information, but
>> as far as I know we don't have stations that sell hydrogen or any
>> other alternate fuel within the city limits.
>
> That is currently my biggest concern about all electric cars.
> Get stuck on the freeway during an accident for 3 or 4 hours...
>
> You are screwed.

Why? The main consideration with a pure electric is range not time. If
you aren't moving you are only consuming trivial energy from the batteries.

On 6/25/2010 8:27 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 6/25/2010 5:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 6/25/2010 10:43 AM, Krypsis wrote:
>>> On 26/06/2010 4:23 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>> On 6/25/2010 8:13 AM, sf wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:47:51 -1000, > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not a big fan of hybrid technology - it's way too complicated.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> important part is that it's an intermediate step between gas and all
>>>>>> electric cars. Internal combustion and hybrid cars and fuel cell cars
>>>>>> are not the future - all electric is. Well that's just my guess.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not claiming hybrids are the future, but they are an excellent
>>>>> transition.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you there. Without them, the acceptance of all electric
>>>> would have taken a lot longer. The next couple of years will be big
>>>> years for all electric.
>>>
>>> I've heard that line since I was a little tacker! It isn't here yet and
>>> I doubt it ever will be. The hybrid compromise will be around for a long
>>> time yet and I know I won't be around to see widespread acceptance and
>>> use of full electric cars, even if I reach 100 years of age.
>>
>> Well, a lot would depend on what your current age is now, wouldn't it?
>> It's a rather odd attitude considering all the movement going on at this
>> point in time. You must be confusing this with flying cars - those won't
>> be coming out until at least 2017. :-)
>>
>> My guess is that a hundred years from now, people are going to find it
>> difficult to believe that we had to go to stations to fill up our cars
>> with such a dangerous, explosive, liquid fuel. The very idea will
>> probably scare them half to death - unless, of course, they're using
>> molten nuclear materials for their fuel. OTOH, they could be using
>> wolf/dog hybrids to power rubber wheeled sleds through a
>> post-apocalyptic landscape filled with zombies. :-)
>
> In other words people a hundred years from now will live in a smaller
> world where someone in Hartford doesn't date someone in New Haven, for
> example (electric cars don't have the range for that).
>
> I think that in the long run efficiency will be sacrificed for utility
> and they'll just make and burn hydrogen, which eliminates all of the
> shortcomings of battery electrics and with a suitable carburetor works
> fine in conventional gasoline engines besides.
>
>
Where will we get the hydrogen from? The usual method is electrolysis of
water. The oxygen-hydrogen bond is strong and takes energy we will get
from where to break it?

George wrote:
> On 6/26/2010 12:42 AM, Omelet wrote:
>>
>> That is currently my biggest concern about all electric cars.
>> Get stuck on the freeway during an accident for 3 or 4 hours...
>>
>> You are screwed.
>
> Why? The main consideration with a pure electric is range not time. If
> you aren't moving you are only consuming trivial energy from the batteries.

Playing DVDs with the volume on 11 can be a significant drain on the
batteries....

-j

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:22:44 +0200, jack > wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:16:48 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> From the description it sounds like he's using a proper laboratory
> >> instrument and not some piece of consumer crap.
> >
> > Why the f*ck bring it up here then? Who cares if it's not universally
> > available? I don't.
> >
> Flow meters are used extensively in industrial processing, and available
> almost anywhere. Go see your local instrumentation supplier, they'll be
> able to help you.

No thanks. If it's not something I can have added at the factory, I
don't do it.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 21:49:01 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> On 6/25/2010 9:05 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:30:14 -1000, dsi1
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/25/2010 3:06 PM, Andy wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Aside from a driver and passenger there's not much room for much else.
> >>> You certainly wouldn't make a Costco run in one.
> >>
> >> You certainly wouldn't - especially if you like to buy paper products in
> >> bulk.
> >>
> > I'm sure there is some sort of trailer you can hitch up if you need to
> > cart home volumes of goods from Costco.
>
> Gosh, I'd sure like to see that! A Smartcar with a cute little trailer
> would be just adorable!
>
Coming soon at U-Haul!

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 13:33:36 +0200, jack > wrote:

> George wrote:
> > On 6/26/2010 12:42 AM, Omelet wrote:
> >>
> >> That is currently my biggest concern about all electric cars.
> >> Get stuck on the freeway during an accident for 3 or 4 hours...
> >>
> >> You are screwed.
> >
> > Why? The main consideration with a pure electric is range not time. If
> > you aren't moving you are only consuming trivial energy from the batteries.
>
> Playing DVDs with the volume on 11 can be a significant drain on the
> batteries....
>
so use your iPod.


--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:27:33 +0200, jack > wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:08:55 +1000, Krypsis >
> > wrote:
> >
> > I don't know about "most people", but my vision of the perfect
> > electric car has never been a plug in type - it's always solar.
>
> Nobody can drive on a cloudy day? Sounds like a plan, might reduce
> traffic jams a bit.

don't be ridiculous.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On 26/06/2010 4:59 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:20:33 +1000, >
> wrote:
>
>> Most people here call them "temporary Australians".
>
> What the h*ll doe that mean? I understood "donorcycle" when I was
> given context, but I don't get ""temporary Australians". I understand
> that Australia is "down under", but what's temporary about death?
>
No, motorcyclists are temporary. A temporary Aussie is anyone who
drives in a manner likely to result in early death. Once dead, they are
no longer Aussie...

Motorcyclists here don't even need to drive in a crazy manner to meet an
early death. The "motorists" provide sufficient hazards to that end!

Krypsis

On 26/06/2010 5:15 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:55:00 -0500, >
> wrote:
>
>> But they still won't last 4 hours stuck in accident traffic on a real
>> commute. :-(
>
> Holy cr*p! 4 hours stuck in traffic? Don't Texans know how to turn
> off their engines when they are stuck at a stand still?
>
Err, electric motors don't idle in traffic. If they aren't involved in
moving the vehicle, they aren't consuming current. Get away from the
concept of internal combustion engines when you're talking electric
cars. Totally different ball game!

Krypsis

On 26/06/2010 5:21 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:13:00 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
>> controlled-access highway?
>
> What the H*LL is a controlled-access highway? A payway?
>
Commonly called a freeway or tollway (otherwise known as a dearway)
where there are limited entry and exit points and where vehicles
entering and exiting do not interfere with the flow of traffic.
Typically, no traffic lights or, for that matter intersections.

Krypsis

On 26/06/2010 5:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/25/2010 9:05 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:30:14 -1000, dsi1
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/25/2010 3:06 PM, Andy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Aside from a driver and passenger there's not much room for much else.
>>>> You certainly wouldn't make a Costco run in one.
>>>
>>> You certainly wouldn't - especially if you like to buy paper products in
>>> bulk.
>>>
>> I'm sure there is some sort of trailer you can hitch up if you need to
>> cart home volumes of goods from Costco.
>
> Gosh, I'd sure like to see that! A Smartcar with a cute little trailer
> would be just adorable!
>
>>
>>
>>
>
I think "little" would be the operative word here!!

Krypsis

On 26/06/2010 8:45 PM, George wrote:
> On 6/25/2010 8:27 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On 6/25/2010 5:49 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 6/25/2010 10:43 AM, Krypsis wrote:
>>>> On 26/06/2010 4:23 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>>> On 6/25/2010 8:13 AM, sf wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:47:51 -1000, > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not a big fan of hybrid technology - it's way too complicated.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> important part is that it's an intermediate step between gas and all
>>>>>>> electric cars. Internal combustion and hybrid cars and fuel cell
>>>>>>> cars
>>>>>>> are not the future - all electric is. Well that's just my guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not claiming hybrids are the future, but they are an excellent
>>>>>> transition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with you there. Without them, the acceptance of all electric
>>>>> would have taken a lot longer. The next couple of years will be big
>>>>> years for all electric.
>>>>
>>>> I've heard that line since I was a little tacker! It isn't here yet and
>>>> I doubt it ever will be. The hybrid compromise will be around for a
>>>> long
>>>> time yet and I know I won't be around to see widespread acceptance and
>>>> use of full electric cars, even if I reach 100 years of age.
>>>
>>> Well, a lot would depend on what your current age is now, wouldn't it?
>>> It's a rather odd attitude considering all the movement going on at this
>>> point in time. You must be confusing this with flying cars - those won't
>>> be coming out until at least 2017. :-)
>>>
>>> My guess is that a hundred years from now, people are going to find it
>>> difficult to believe that we had to go to stations to fill up our cars
>>> with such a dangerous, explosive, liquid fuel. The very idea will
>>> probably scare them half to death - unless, of course, they're using
>>> molten nuclear materials for their fuel. OTOH, they could be using
>>> wolf/dog hybrids to power rubber wheeled sleds through a
>>> post-apocalyptic landscape filled with zombies. :-)
>>
>> In other words people a hundred years from now will live in a smaller
>> world where someone in Hartford doesn't date someone in New Haven, for
>> example (electric cars don't have the range for that).
>>
>> I think that in the long run efficiency will be sacrificed for utility
>> and they'll just make and burn hydrogen, which eliminates all of the
>> shortcomings of battery electrics and with a suitable carburetor works
>> fine in conventional gasoline engines besides.
>>
>>
> Where will we get the hydrogen from? The usual method is electrolysis of
> water. The oxygen-hydrogen bond is strong and takes energy we will get
> from where to break it?

Let me guess!!! Electricity????

Do I pass?

Krypsis

Krypsis wrote on Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:34:43 +1000:

> On 26/06/2010 5:15 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:55:00 -0500, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But they still won't last 4 hours stuck in accident traffic on a
>>> real commute. :-(
>>
>> Holy cr*p! 4 hours stuck in traffic? Don't Texans know how to turn
>> off their engines when they are stuck at a stand
>> still?
>>
> Err, electric motors don't idle in traffic. If they aren't
> involved in moving the vehicle, they aren't consuming current.
> Get away from the concept of internal combustion engines when you're
> talking electric cars. Totally different ball game!

But what do you do about A/C while stuck in traffic in Texas? You aren't
one of those San Franciscans who pontificate about not really needing
A/C, are you?

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:31:34 +1000, Krypsis >
wrote:

> On 26/06/2010 4:59 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:20:33 +1000, >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Most people here call them "temporary Australians".
> >
> > What the h*ll doe that mean? I understood "donorcycle" when I was
> > given context, but I don't get ""temporary Australians". I understand
> > that Australia is "down under", but what's temporary about death?
> >
> No, motorcyclists are temporary. A temporary Aussie is anyone who
> drives in a manner likely to result in early death. Once dead, they are
> no longer Aussie...
>
Thanks.... I guess you have to be a biker to appreciate the term.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:54:21 -0400, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> But what do you do about A/C while stuck in traffic in Texas? You aren't
> one of those San Franciscans who pontificate about not really needing
> A/C, are you?

I am. I don't need A/C until I leave the city.

sf - 53° and overcast

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:36:44 +1000, Krypsis >
wrote:

> On 26/06/2010 5:21 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:13:00 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> controlled-access highway?
> >
> > What the H*LL is a controlled-access highway? A payway?
> >
> Commonly called a freeway or tollway (otherwise known as a dearway)
> where there are limited entry and exit points and where vehicles
> entering and exiting do not interfere with the flow of traffic.
> Typically, no traffic lights or, for that matter intersections.
>
LOL, thanks. That's another term nobody uses.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

In article >,
George > wrote:

> On 6/25/2010 8:27 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

> > I think that in the long run efficiency will be sacrificed for utility
> > and they'll just make and burn hydrogen, which eliminates all of the
> > shortcomings of battery electrics and with a suitable carburetor works
> > fine in conventional gasoline engines besides.
> >
> >
> Where will we get the hydrogen from? The usual method is electrolysis of
> water. The oxygen-hydrogen bond is strong and takes energy we will get
> from where to break it?

Where do you get "usual method is electrolysis of water"? I have never
heard anybody knowledgeable propose that. Even the theoretical
percentage of efficiency is low. And then where do you get the
electricity? Many methods don't have that high of efficiency.

Under the leadership of our former President, George Bush II, the US
Federal Government allocated billions of dollars in basic R&D grants for
the production of hydrogen. All of this money went to the oil and gas
companies, since the plan only involved the use of fossil fuels! Now,
present internal combustion engines work fine with any fossil fuel. A
gasoline engine can work fine, without modification, for CNG (compressed
natural gas) or LPG (propane). You'll need a new gas tank and fuel
injector. This is existing technology. I drove a propane forklift 40
years ago. You can even have a dual fuel car. In fact, natural gas
cars are in production in the US:

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >, jack > wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:16:48 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> From the description it sounds like he's using a proper laboratory
> >> instrument and not some piece of consumer crap.
> >
> > Why the f*ck bring it up here then? Who cares if it's not universally
> > available? I don't.
> >
> Flow meters are used extensively in industrial processing, and available
> almost anywhere. Go see your local instrumentation supplier, they'll be
> able to help you.

I'm guessing that everybody in my town has at least two on their
property. The utility company has one to measure the amount of natural
gas, and the city has one to measure the amount of water. We pay by
usage, so that has to be measured accurately.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:23:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
> > On 6/25/2010 2:20 PM, sf wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe some other resident of my city has better information, but
> > > as far as I know we don't have stations that sell hydrogen or any
> > > other alternate fuel within the city limits.
> >
> > Check again. Most major cities have a purveyor of industrial gases.
> > It's just not listed as an automotive filling station.
>
> You don't live here so you don't know, so stop shooting off your
> mouth.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/locator/stations/

42 stations within 10 miles of downtown SF, sf! Two CNG in the city
limits.

And these are not sellers of industrial gases, they are fueling stations
for vehicles.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:13:00 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
> > controlled-access highway?
>
> What the H*LL is a controlled-access highway? A payway?

A freeway. I'm sure you've seen them. There are a few in California.
You can not get on or off the freeway except on an on ramp or off ramp.
There is a sign on every on ramp that says, "no pedestrians, bicycles or
motor-driven cycles". Except for the ramps, there are fences to control
access.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On 27/06/2010 12:54 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> Krypsis wrote on Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:34:43 +1000:
>
>> On 26/06/2010 5:15 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:55:00 -0500, >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But they still won't last 4 hours stuck in accident traffic on a
>>>> real commute. :-(
>>>
>>> Holy cr*p! 4 hours stuck in traffic? Don't Texans know how to turn
>>> off their engines when they are stuck at a stand
>>> still?
>>>
>> Err, electric motors don't idle in traffic. If they aren't
>> involved in moving the vehicle, they aren't consuming current.
>> Get away from the concept of internal combustion engines when you're
>> talking electric cars. Totally different ball game!
>
> But what do you do about A/C while stuck in traffic in Texas? You aren't
> one of those San Franciscans who pontificate about not really needing
> A/C, are you?
>
Where we live, we don't get stuck in traffic jams. If I need to head
into the city, I catch a local bus to the nearest station and a train
from there. I need to do that on average about twice a week. I don't
even need to make my trip in peak periods as my trips into the city are
to attend meetings and suchlike. For the rest, I can work from home.

I mostly use AC in the car to demist windows. Since I can choose my time
to be on the roads, I can avoid congested areas and times. A hot day
predicted? I'll stay home and video conference with people in the city
that I need to talk to personally.

Age and seniority does have its advantages!

Krypsis

Dan Abel wrote:

> Where do you get "usual method is electrolysis of water"? I have never
> heard anybody knowledgeable propose that. Even the theoretical
> percentage of efficiency is low. And then where do you get the
> electricity? Many methods don't have that high of efficiency.


Electrolysis is a method of producing hydrogen on an industrial scale.
My late brother in law was an engineer who thought that is was a viable
way of using renewable energy to produce hydrogen in remote areas and
then ship the gas to areas where it could be burned to produce energy.
He thought that it could be used on northern waterways where there are
lots waterfalls that could use hydroelectric dams. There would be too
much energy lost in transmission to use power lines, but that the gas
could be transported or piped to high density areas. In addition to
harnessing a renewable energy source, it is clean fuel.

Krypsis wrote:

> No, motorcyclists are temporary. A temporary Aussie is anyone who
> drives in a manner likely to result in early death. Once dead, they are
> no longer Aussie...
>
> Motorcyclists here don't even need to drive in a crazy manner to meet an
> early death. The "motorists" provide sufficient hazards to that end!


We have our share of crazy motorcyclists. They have short life
expectancies. While they may feel comfortable with the thrill of speed
on their bikes, they fail to account for the many factors that may arise
on the road.... other vehicles, bumps, curves, pets and wildlife on the
road. IMO, the majority of motorcycle accidents are caused by car or
truck drivers. I ride a motorcycle and, despite being very cautious on
the bike, I have had a lot of close calls with inattentive car drivers.

That being said, there was a motorcyclist killed in front of my
neighbour's house a number of years ago. As soon as the weather warmed
up and bikes were out on the road again, I was almost able to set my
watch by this kid. Within 5 minutes of getting home from work I would
hear this kid flying down our road on his crotch rocket. The speed limit
was 35 mph but this kid was always doing 80 or more. It happened every
day for a week and a half. Then one day there were some geese crossing
at a dip in the road and a car driver moved over to avoid them. The
motorcyclist came flying over the crest of the hill and hit her head on.
She was uninjured. He was dead on impact.

sf wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:13:00 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> > wrote:
>
>> controlled-access highway?
>
> What the H*LL is a controlled-access highway? A payway?
>

AKA limited access highway. It is a road where the access is limited to
specific locations, like ramps, as opposed to one that can be accesses
directly from parking lots and driveways.

Andy wrote:
>Food Snob wrote:
>>

>>Next year I'm going to buy myself a 49cc scooter.

Why stop there... shove a 22cc trimmer up your ass:
http://www.echo-usa.com/product.asp?...tegory=TRIMMER

>I'll continue to pollute the air (along with the trucks and buses) at 18-
>20 mpg, unleaded 91 octane, in my 1998 VW GTI/VR6 for another 20 or more
>years. I don't buy into all the new tech they shoehorn into today's cars.


If only everyone would drive an MW... runs on cheap beer and snort...
the Mick Wagon! LOL http://www.magicwheels.com