In article >,
Rik Brown > wrote:

> Before this thread disappears into the sunset, I'd like to leave a
> suggestion to those who have not tried the George Foreman Grills, visit
> Amazon.com and read the reviews there. You'll find many who have bought
> multiple GF grills and love them. They are normally rated as 4.5 out of
> 5 stars (which is very good!).
>
> They aren't for family cooking or high cuisine. They are for singles or
> couples cooking fast with very easy cleanup. For that, my wife and I
> love it. -- Rik

They are cool, but overpriced and too small. Do take a look at other
brands of larger and similar grills for about 1/2 the price. :-)

I do love Hamilton Beach.

GE makes a few good ones too but I like the depth of the grease drawer
(and the price) of HB.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On 5/27/2010 8:09 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> Rik > wrote:
>
>> Before this thread disappears into the sunset, I'd like to leave a
>> suggestion to those who have not tried the George Foreman Grills, visit
>> Amazon.com and read the reviews there. You'll find many who have bought
>> multiple GF grills and love them. They are normally rated as 4.5 out of
>> 5 stars (which is very good!).
>>
>> They aren't for family cooking or high cuisine. They are for singles or
>> couples cooking fast with very easy cleanup. For that, my wife and I
>> love it. -- Rik
>
> They are cool, but overpriced and too small. Do take a look at other
> brands of larger and similar grills for about 1/2 the price. :-)
>
> I do love Hamilton Beach.
>
> GE makes a few good ones too but I like the depth of the grease drawer
> (and the price) of HB.

I would also suggest looking at the Cuisinart gr-4. It's an indoor
panini grill, that has removable plates, comes with additional griddle
plates, has temp control for both, and is easy to clean. Isn't the
cheapest option, but it has served me well over the last 5 0r 6 years.

Just know on how you plan to use it first. Also, go out to Amazon.com
and review the owner reviews for a number of them. I learned a lot that
way prior to purchase.

BTW, I forgot who mentioned it, but I also dampen a couple of paper
towels and leave them in the grill (closed) when done cooking. Make's
clean-up a cinch.

Bob

In article >,
Bob Muncie > wrote:

> On 5/27/2010 8:09 PM, Omelet wrote:
> > In >,
> > Rik > wrote:
> >
> >> Before this thread disappears into the sunset, I'd like to leave a
> >> suggestion to those who have not tried the George Foreman Grills, visit
> >> Amazon.com and read the reviews there. You'll find many who have bought
> >> multiple GF grills and love them. They are normally rated as 4.5 out of
> >> 5 stars (which is very good!).
> >>
> >> They aren't for family cooking or high cuisine. They are for singles or
> >> couples cooking fast with very easy cleanup. For that, my wife and I
> >> love it. -- Rik
> >
> > They are cool, but overpriced and too small. Do take a look at other
> > brands of larger and similar grills for about 1/2 the price. :-)
> >
> > I do love Hamilton Beach.
> >
> > GE makes a few good ones too but I like the depth of the grease drawer
> > (and the price) of HB.
>
> I would also suggest looking at the Cuisinart gr-4. It's an indoor
> panini grill, that has removable plates, comes with additional griddle
> plates, has temp control for both, and is easy to clean. Isn't the
> cheapest option, but it has served me well over the last 5 0r 6 years.
>
> Just know on how you plan to use it first. Also, go out to Amazon.com
> and review the owner reviews for a number of them. I learned a lot that
> way prior to purchase.
>
> BTW, I forgot who mentioned it, but I also dampen a couple of paper
> towels and leave them in the grill (closed) when done cooking. Make's
> clean-up a cinch.
>
> Bob

I've actually used a fabric washcloth. It does work quite well!
I'll have to look at that brand Bob for when I need to replace my
current grill.

I hardly ever fry meat any more. I use the electric grill or the
toaster oven most of them time.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

"Omelet" wrote:
> Never heard of stainless steel? ;-)
----------------------

18-8 S/S (pots & pans) is non magnetic.

Lew

In article >,
"Lew Hodgett" > wrote:

> "Omelet" wrote:
> > Never heard of stainless steel? ;-)
> ----------------------
>
> 18-8 S/S (pots & pans) is non magnetic.
>
> Lew

Ok, I'll have to look those up.
If they don't contain Iron, what makes them steel at all?
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
"Lew Hodgett" > wrote:

> There are several types of S/S.
>
> 302, 304, 307, 316L and 440 are just a few.
>
> Most cooking utinsils are normally 304 (AKA: 18-8)
>
> If you want to conduct a little test, take as small S/S container,
> place some salt water in it, place the container on a shelf for a
> couple of weeks.
>
> When you dump the salt water, the container will be pitted which is
> why sailors refer to stainless steel as "stain less" steel.
>
> Sooner or later it all "stains" (rusts).
>
> Lew

But I thought that rust was iron oxide? That should make any pan
containing it magnetic?
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On 6/19/2010 3:16 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> "Lew > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" wrote:
>>> Never heard of stainless steel? ;-)
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 18-8 S/S (pots& pans) is non magnetic.
>>
>> Lew
>
> Ok, I'll have to look those up.
> If they don't contain Iron, what makes them steel at all?

You're correct that it ain't steel if it don't contain iron. As far as I
know, SS is mostly iron. The magnetic properties of SS depends on the
alloy mix. Whether or not all SS pans are non-magnetic and unsuitable
for induction cooking is unclear.

On 21/06/2010 6:06 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/19/2010 3:16 AM, Omelet wrote:
>> In >,
>> "Lew > wrote:
>>
>>> "Omelet" wrote:
>>>> Never heard of stainless steel? ;-)
>>> ----------------------
>>>
>>> 18-8 S/S (pots& pans) is non magnetic.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>
>> Ok, I'll have to look those up.
>> If they don't contain Iron, what makes them steel at all?
>
> You're correct that it ain't steel if it don't contain iron. As far as I
> know, SS is mostly iron. The magnetic properties of SS depends on the
> alloy mix. Whether or not all SS pans are non-magnetic and unsuitable
> for induction cooking is unclear.

I just tried a magnet on our stainless steel cookware. As you say, the
magnetic properties vary according to the alloy mix as I notice our pans
don't provide anywhere near as great a magnetic attraction as a piece of
mild steel. I used a mild steel side panel of the stove as a basis for
comparison. As well, all our pots have a copper base. That may make it
very difficult for induction cooking as the copper has zero magnetic
attraction.

Krypsis

dsi1 wrote:

>> Ok, I'll have to look those up.
>> If they don't contain Iron, what makes them steel at all?
>
> You're correct that it ain't steel if it don't contain iron. As far as I
> know, SS is mostly iron. The magnetic properties of SS depends on the
> alloy mix. Whether or not all SS pans are non-magnetic and unsuitable
> for induction cooking is unclear.



Well son of a gun. I learned something new today. I had always assumed
that stainless steel was magnetic because it contains iron and nickel,
but when I did a little Google research I learned that it is not. It
seems that adding nickel to the steel makes it non magnetic. Being a
sceptic, and having a nice strong magnet on hand, I went into the
kitchen to experiment. It did not stick to my stainless sink, compost
pail, pots and pans or cutlery.

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> dsi1 wrote:
>
> >> Ok, I'll have to look those up.
> >> If they don't contain Iron, what makes them steel at all?
> >
> > You're correct that it ain't steel if it don't contain iron. As far as I
> > know, SS is mostly iron. The magnetic properties of SS depends on the
> > alloy mix. Whether or not all SS pans are non-magnetic and unsuitable
> > for induction cooking is unclear.
>
>
>
> Well son of a gun. I learned something new today. I had always assumed
> that stainless steel was magnetic because it contains iron and nickel,
> but when I did a little Google research I learned that it is not. It
> seems that adding nickel to the steel makes it non magnetic. Being a
> sceptic, and having a nice strong magnet on hand, I went into the
> kitchen to experiment. It did not stick to my stainless sink, compost
> pail, pots and pans or cutlery.

I've run into that too when I checked it out.

I learned something too. :-)


Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.

The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.

Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Omelet wrote:

>>
>> When you buy S/S bolts and screws at the hardware store, you take a
>> magnet with you to test to insure they are non magnetic.
>>


It's interesting stuff. While metals have certain qualities, combining
them can turn them into products with qualities much different from
either of the parent elements. I worked in an alloy smelting furnace
for two summers while at university. My father had studied metallurgy
and for a while was working in high temperature precision casting of
alloys to make jet engine turbine blades.

Some additives will make steel stronger, and some make it more brittle.
Even heat treating can alter the properties of steel. Heat a piece of
steel until it is cherry red and then immerse it water to cool it
quickly will make it more brittle. You can take a piece of steel bar and
it will bend when enough force is exerted on it. If you use that
heating and quenching process, that same steel will not bend. It will snap.

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Some additives will make steel stronger, and some make it more brittle.
> Even heat treating can alter the properties of steel. Heat a piece of
> steel until it is cherry red and then immerse it water to cool it
> quickly will make it more brittle. You can take a piece of steel bar and
> it will bend when enough force is exerted on it. If you use that
> heating and quenching process, that same steel will not bend. It will snap.

Does not tempering like that to hardness make it brittle, but harder and
hold a sharper edge too?

This is fascinating. :-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Omelet wrote:
>
> Does not tempering like that to hardness make it brittle, but harder and
> hold a sharper edge too?

Yes. It is commonly used for tools like punches and chisels to make them
hard enough to hold an edge. When you strike a cold chisel with a
hammer, the end that you strike is a little softer and the steel may
give a little and you can see it start to fold over after a while, but
the other end has been tempered to hold a sharp edge. Carbon also helps
to harden steel. Manganese increases its tensile strength, a sort of
cold hardening.



> This is fascinating. :-)


It's like alchemy. Metals form crystals, and altering the crystal
structure changes the properties of the metal.

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> >
> > Does not tempering like that to hardness make it brittle, but harder and
> > hold a sharper edge too?
>
> Yes. It is commonly used for tools like punches and chisels to make them
> hard enough to hold an edge. When you strike a cold chisel with a
> hammer, the end that you strike is a little softer and the steel may
> give a little and you can see it start to fold over after a while, but
> the other end has been tempered to hold a sharp edge. Carbon also helps
> to harden steel. Manganese increases its tensile strength, a sort of
> cold hardening.
>
>
>
> > This is fascinating. :-)
>
>
> It's like alchemy. Metals form crystals, and altering the crystal
> structure changes the properties of the metal.

And makes it non-magnetic despite the iron content?

So what makes metal magnetic conductive?
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Krypsis wrote:

> I just tried a magnet on our stainless steel cookware. As you say, the
> magnetic properties vary according to the alloy mix as I notice our pans
> don't provide anywhere near as great a magnetic attraction as a piece of
> mild steel. I used a mild steel side panel of the stove as a basis for
> comparison. As well, all our pots have a copper base. That may make it
> very difficult for induction cooking as the copper has zero magnetic
> attraction.

Might give it a try anyway: The way induction works, a magnetic field is
fluctuated around the element, which causes an electric current in any metal
nearby. That current causes the metal to heat up. Magnetic metals work
better because of hysteresis and deeper currents, but theoretically anything
which conducts electricity could work (and copper is a superb conductor).

Bob

On 6/20/2010 5:30 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In ing.com>,
> Dave > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>>
>>> Does not tempering like that to hardness make it brittle, but harder and
>>> hold a sharper edge too?
>>
>> Yes. It is commonly used for tools like punches and chisels to make them
>> hard enough to hold an edge. When you strike a cold chisel with a
>> hammer, the end that you strike is a little softer and the steel may
>> give a little and you can see it start to fold over after a while, but
>> the other end has been tempered to hold a sharp edge. Carbon also helps
>> to harden steel. Manganese increases its tensile strength, a sort of
>> cold hardening.
>>
>>
>>
>>> This is fascinating. :-)
>>
>>
>> It's like alchemy. Metals form crystals, and altering the crystal
>> structure changes the properties of the metal.
>
> And makes it non-magnetic despite the iron content?

In the case of S/S it is the nickle which makes it non-magnetic. S/S
that contains both chromium and nickle is called "austenitic" or
commonly known as 300 series. 300 series alloys that have low amounts of
nickle can become magnetized.

>
> So what makes metal magnetic conductive?

On 6/20/2010 6:52 PM, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Krypsis wrote:
>
>> I just tried a magnet on our stainless steel cookware. As you say, the
>> magnetic properties vary according to the alloy mix as I notice our pans
>> don't provide anywhere near as great a magnetic attraction as a piece of
>> mild steel. I used a mild steel side panel of the stove as a basis for
>> comparison. As well, all our pots have a copper base. That may make it
>> very difficult for induction cooking as the copper has zero magnetic
>> attraction.
>
> Might give it a try anyway: The way induction works, a magnetic field is
> fluctuated around the element, which causes an electric current in any metal
> nearby. That current causes the metal to heat up. Magnetic metals work
> better because of hysteresis and deeper currents, but theoretically anything
> which conducts electricity could work (and copper is a superb conductor).
>
> Bob
>
>
The property that is important for the induction heater is magnetic
permeability.

George wrote:

>
> In the case of S/S it is the nickle which makes it non-magnetic. S/S
> that contains both chromium and nickle is called "austenitic" or
> commonly known as 300 series. 300 series alloys that have low amounts of
> nickle can become magnetized.


Curiously, nickel is magnetic. However, when it is added to steel the
crystals are formed in a way that makes the product non-magnetic.

On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>
> I learned something too. :-)
>
>
> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>
> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>
> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?

Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.

dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>>
>> I learned something too. :-)
>>
>>
>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>>
>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>>
>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>
> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.


While we are on the topic of the magic of metallurgy, it may interest
people to know that powdered aluminum is considered to be hazardous
materials that is subject to spontaneous combustion.

On 6/20/2010 2:41 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
>>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>>>
>>> I learned something too. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
>>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>>>
>>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>>>
>>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>>
>> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
>> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
>> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
>> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
>> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
>
>
> While we are on the topic of the magic of metallurgy, it may interest
> people to know that powdered aluminum is considered to be hazardous
> materials that is subject to spontaneous combustion.

You're right about that. The Germans were using using aluminum powder as
rocket fuel for their weapons. Unfortunately, they also used the stuff
to coat the skin of the Hindenburg. That was a good idea. :-)

As I recall, aluminum is used in solid fuel rockets and booster rockets.

In article >,
George > wrote:

> On 6/20/2010 6:52 PM, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> > Krypsis wrote:
> >
> >> I just tried a magnet on our stainless steel cookware. As you say, the
> >> magnetic properties vary according to the alloy mix as I notice our pans
> >> don't provide anywhere near as great a magnetic attraction as a piece of
> >> mild steel. I used a mild steel side panel of the stove as a basis for
> >> comparison. As well, all our pots have a copper base. That may make it
> >> very difficult for induction cooking as the copper has zero magnetic
> >> attraction.
> >
> > Might give it a try anyway: The way induction works, a magnetic field is
> > fluctuated around the element, which causes an electric current in any metal
> > nearby. That current causes the metal to heat up. Magnetic metals work
> > better because of hysteresis and deeper currents, but theoretically anything
> > which conducts electricity could work (and copper is a superb conductor).
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> The property that is important for the induction heater is magnetic
> permeability.

Which is comprised of what metal?

My cats food dishes are stainless steel and have no magnetic attraction.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> George wrote:
>
> >
> > In the case of S/S it is the nickle which makes it non-magnetic. S/S
> > that contains both chromium and nickle is called "austenitic" or
> > commonly known as 300 series. 300 series alloys that have low amounts of
> > nickle can become magnetized.
>
>
> Curiously, nickel is magnetic. However, when it is added to steel the
> crystals are formed in a way that makes the product non-magnetic.

So magnetism is a property of metallic structure and not elemental
content?

The things one learns on this list... ;-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
dsi1 > wrote:

> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
> > I've run into that too when I checked it out.
> >
> > I learned something too. :-)
> >
> >
> > Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
> > is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
> >
> > The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
> >
> > Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>
> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.

But I presume that that is only if it contains iron.
So what is the definition of "steel"?
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> dsi1 wrote:
> > On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
> >> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
> >>
> >> I learned something too. :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
> >> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
> >>
> >> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
> >>
> >> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
> >
> > Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
> > aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
> > thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
> > when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
> > surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
>
>
> While we are on the topic of the magic of metallurgy, it may interest
> people to know that powdered aluminum is considered to be hazardous
> materials that is subject to spontaneous combustion.

Zinc is even worse. <g>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
dsi1 > wrote:

> On 6/20/2010 2:41 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > dsi1 wrote:
> >> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
> >>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
> >>>
> >>> I learned something too. :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
> >>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
> >>>
> >>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
> >>>
> >>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
> >>
> >> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
> >> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
> >> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
> >> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
> >> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
> >
> >
> > While we are on the topic of the magic of metallurgy, it may interest
> > people to know that powdered aluminum is considered to be hazardous
> > materials that is subject to spontaneous combustion.
>
> You're right about that. The Germans were using using aluminum powder as
> rocket fuel for their weapons. Unfortunately, they also used the stuff
> to coat the skin of the Hindenburg. That was a good idea. :-)
>
> As I recall, aluminum is used in solid fuel rockets and booster rockets.

I didn't know that. Neat!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
"Lew Hodgett" > wrote:

> This is known as "tempering" which reduces some of the brittleness,
> but increases the ductility.

I had to google that word. New one to add to my vocabulary. <g>
Appears to be similar to Malleability. That one I knew...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On 21/06/2010 3:21 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In ing.com>,
> Dave > wrote:
>
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
>>>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>>>>
>>>> I learned something too. :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
>>>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>>>>
>>>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>>>>
>>>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>>>
>>> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
>>> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
>>> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
>>> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
>>> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
>>
>>
>> While we are on the topic of the magic of metallurgy, it may interest
>> people to know that powdered aluminum is considered to be hazardous
>> materials that is subject to spontaneous combustion.
>
> Zinc is even worse.<g>

Magnesium alloys are worse still.

Krypsis

On 6/20/2010 7:20 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
>>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>>>
>>> I learned something too. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
>>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>>>
>>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>>>
>>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>>
>> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
>> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
>> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
>> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
>> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
>
> But I presume that that is only if it contains iron.
> So what is the definition of "steel"?

Steel is a purified form of iron. It was an expensive material to
produce until Andrew Carnegie introduced new, cheaper methods of making
steel in America in the 1880s. This made him really rich and made
possible the modern skyscraper - it's great stuff and we still use it
today, a hundred years later.

On 21/06/2010 3:26 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> "Lew > wrote:
>
>> This is known as "tempering" which reduces some of the brittleness,
>> but increases the ductility.
>
> I had to google that word. New one to add to my vocabulary.<g>
> Appears to be similar to Malleability. That one I knew...

Well actually, "malleability" is similar to "ductility" because both are
inherent properties of a substance. "Tempering", on the other hand, is a
process whereby the properties of a material can be altered through heat
treatment. You might want to look up "quenching" as that can form part
of the process of tempering.

Krypsis (A thwarted blacksmith)

On 21/06/2010 6:17 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 6/20/2010 7:20 PM, Omelet wrote:
>> In >,
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
>>>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>>>>
>>>> I learned something too. :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
>>>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>>>>
>>>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>>>>
>>>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>>>
>>> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
>>> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
>>> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
>>> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
>>> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
>>
>> But I presume that that is only if it contains iron.
>> So what is the definition of "steel"?
>
> Steel is a purified form of iron. It was an expensive material to
> produce until Andrew Carnegie introduced new, cheaper methods of making
> steel in America in the 1880s. This made him really rich and made
> possible the modern skyscraper - it's great stuff and we still use it
> today, a hundred years later.

Well actually, steel is an alloy. The alloying materials, primarily
carbon but include others such as manganese, chromium, vanadium, and
tungsten, are introduced into the iron to change its properties and, in
particular, its hardness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel

Some interesting reading

Krypsis

On Jun 21, 9:12*pm, Krypsis > wrote:

> Krypsis (A thwarted blacksmith)


******* Nope. A frustrated old tart.

:-)

On 6/20/2010 11:43 PM, Krypsis wrote:
> On 21/06/2010 6:17 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 6/20/2010 7:20 PM, Omelet wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
>>>>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned something too. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
>>>>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>>>>
>>>> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
>>>> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
>>>> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
>>>> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
>>>> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
>>>
>>> But I presume that that is only if it contains iron.
>>> So what is the definition of "steel"?
>>
>> Steel is a purified form of iron. It was an expensive material to
>> produce until Andrew Carnegie introduced new, cheaper methods of making
>> steel in America in the 1880s. This made him really rich and made
>> possible the modern skyscraper - it's great stuff and we still use it
>> today, a hundred years later.
>
> Well actually, steel is an alloy. The alloying materials, primarily
> carbon but include others such as manganese, chromium, vanadium, and
> tungsten, are introduced into the iron to change its properties and, in
> particular, its hardness.

This is true, however iron is not turned into steel by the addition of
other metals - it's turned into steel by removing carbon and other
impurities.

>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel
>
> Some interesting reading
>
> Krypsis
>
>
>

In article >, dsi1 >
wrote:

> On 6/20/2010 7:20 PM, Omelet wrote:
> > In >,
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
> >>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
> >>>
> >>> I learned something too. :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
> >>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
> >>>
> >>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
> >>>
> >>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
> >>
> >> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
> >> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
> >> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
> >> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
> >> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
> >
> > But I presume that that is only if it contains iron.
> > So what is the definition of "steel"?
>
> Steel is a purified form of iron. It was an expensive material to
> produce until Andrew Carnegie introduced new, cheaper methods of making
> steel in America in the 1880s. This made him really rich and made
> possible the modern skyscraper - it's great stuff and we still use it
> today, a hundred years later.

I see I'll have to do some googling. <G> Thanks!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
Krypsis > wrote:

> On 21/06/2010 3:26 PM, Omelet wrote:
> > In >,
> > "Lew > wrote:
> >
> >> This is known as "tempering" which reduces some of the brittleness,
> >> but increases the ductility.
> >
> > I had to google that word. New one to add to my vocabulary.<g>
> > Appears to be similar to Malleability. That one I knew...
>
> Well actually, "malleability" is similar to "ductility" because both are
> inherent properties of a substance. "Tempering", on the other hand, is a
> process whereby the properties of a material can be altered through heat
> treatment. You might want to look up "quenching" as that can form part
> of the process of tempering.
>
> Krypsis (A thwarted blacksmith)

Why thwarted? :-)
There is a reason that "Smith" is a very common last name.
Take it up as a hobby.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article > ,
Krypsis > wrote:

> Even in the narrow range of concentrations which make up steel, mixtures
> of carbon and iron can form a number of different structures, with very
> different properties. Understanding such properties is essential to
> making quality steel.

So how do you feel about recycled steel?
Tons of dead cars go over to other countries ever year to become more
cars.

I've heard bad things about engine blocks made from it.

Is it simply a matter of forging temperatures?

I'm very much a believer in recycling whenever and wherever possible...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Omelet wrote:

> I've heard bad things about engine blocks made from it.
>
> Is it simply a matter of forging temperatures?
>
> I'm very much a believer in recycling whenever and wherever possible...

Scrap steal is an important component in the steel making process. I
still remember a class trip I went on in elementary school, a tour of a
steel plant. It was fascinating.

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> > I've heard bad things about engine blocks made from it.
> >
> > Is it simply a matter of forging temperatures?
> >
> > I'm very much a believer in recycling whenever and wherever possible...
>
> Scrap steal is an important component in the steel making process. I
> still remember a class trip I went on in elementary school, a tour of a
> steel plant. It was fascinating.

I'd like that. :-) My focus in High School was in Ag and Music.
I did learn a lot about poultry processing...

Which is why I always rinse my chickens thoroughly!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 10:06:36 -1000, dsi1 wrote:

> On 6/19/2010 3:16 AM, Omelet wrote:
>> In >,
>> "Lew > wrote:
>>
>>> "Omelet" wrote:
>>>> Never heard of stainless steel? ;-)
>>> ----------------------
>>>
>>> 18-8 S/S (pots& pans) is non magnetic.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>
>> Ok, I'll have to look those up.
>> If they don't contain Iron, what makes them steel at all?
>
> You're correct that it ain't steel if it don't contain iron. As far as I
> know, SS is mostly iron. The magnetic properties of SS depends on the
> alloy mix. Whether or not all SS pans are non-magnetic and unsuitable
> for induction cooking is unclear.

just for the hell of it, i took a fairly strong magnet to a farberware
copper-clad stainless frying pan: bottom, inside and out, magnet doesn't
stick at all. sides, inside and out, sticks slightly more so toward the
top (i guess because that's where the rolled lip is).

what this means for an induction cooktop, no idea. probably not good.

your pal,
blake

On 6/21/2010 6:25 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/2010 7:20 PM, Omelet wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/20/2010 11:03 AM, Omelet wrote:
>>>>> I've run into that too when I checked it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned something too. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like most of my most commonly used cook ware would work tho'. It
>>>>> is mostly cast iron and the SS pressure cooker.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SS stock pots however would need a hot plate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will non-magnetic SS still rust if compromised?
>>>>
>>>> Stainless steel does rust or more correctly, oxidize. It's similar to
>>>> aluminum which is quite reactive to the oxygen in the air. The amazing
>>>> thing is that a hard surface that resists corrosion is rapidly formed
>>>> when aluminum is exposed to air. I assume the same self-protecting
>>>> surface occurs in SS. It's quite a remarkable property.
>>>
>>> But I presume that that is only if it contains iron.
>>> So what is the definition of "steel"?
>>
>> Steel is a purified form of iron. It was an expensive material to
>> produce until Andrew Carnegie introduced new, cheaper methods of making
>> steel in America in the 1880s. This made him really rich and made
>> possible the modern skyscraper - it's great stuff and we still use it
>> today, a hundred years later.
>
> I see I'll have to do some googling.<G> Thanks!

You could watch more TV. I got the above factoid from watching an
episode from the series "America, The Story of US" on the History Channel.

BTW, iron and steel is eminently recyclable. My guess is that it's the
number one recycled material along with water. Your car carries the DNA
of the history of the US auto manufacturing in it's steel parts,
probably the history of the foreign auto manufacturing too. OTOH, iron
has been recycled from the beginning - all steel was formed within the
furnaces of the stars. That blows my mind!