On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 06:52:48 -0400, Jim Elbrecht >
wrote:

>Jeßus > wrote:
>
>-snip-
>>
>>Both types have pros and cons - I've always been under the impression
>>that the upright types allow a lot of coldness to 'escape' when the
>>door is open compared to chest freezers.
>>
>>Just how this impacts on electricity usage in the real world, I don't
>>know. *If* it does at all...
>
>I suspect I've lost more $ with the chest freezers I've owned through
>lost food than I have through the 'air dump' of the uprights.
>[minimized by keeping the freezer full- even if it is just jugs of ice
>or bread.]

That is true, a lot of stuff tends to stay buried at the bottom - if
you're not vigilant.

>>The big downside with chest freezers you've already mentioned
>>OTOH, if you have a need to put something large in a freezer (the
>>neighbours body... or whatever) - then the chest freezer would be
>>ideal.
>
>My neighbor wasn't that big-- but a few minutes with my electric
>chainsaw & he fit in my upright just fine.<g>

You chopped up your freezer with a chainsaw?!?

>>I currently have a chest freezer, but am considering an upright as a
>>future replacement.
>
>I've owned both & prefer the upright for most use. If I was buying a
>whole cow every year I might consider a dedicated 'beef freezer'.

Yeah, I'm going for an upright next time, but keeping the old chest
freezer for emergencies... or for the larger neighbours.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 08:05:09 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:19:56 +1000, Jeßus wrote:
>
>> The big downside with chest freezers you've already mentioned
>> OTOH, if you have a need to put something large in a freezer (the
>> neighbours body... or whatever) - then the chest freezer would be
>> ideal.
>
>Take out the shelves and stand them upright.
>
>Ever try and stuff a rigor mortis'ed body into a chest freezer?

I'd wait until the rigor passed, or maybe brine them in the bathtub
instead?

Rod Speed wrote:

>>> Nope, that mostly comes from what is in the freezer and happens in chest freezers anyway.
>
>> It happens faster in uprights.
>
> Not with the frost free ones it doesnt.

Experience tells me as usual you are wrong woddles

>
>> If it came from the contents they would all suffer from freezer burn big time and freezers would be useless for
>> storing food.
>
> Wrong, as always.


As usual you couldn't bullshite your was out of a wet paper nag
>
>

In article >,
brooklyn1 > wrote:
> Most stupidmarket food freezers/fridges are chest type and have no
> door... instead they have a fill line and many have add-on deflectors
> to block air agitation. Food stores are more and more moving away
> from upright freezer/fridge units.

<Crossposts removed>

You're being grandiose again, you goof. Maybe "most" that you have seen
are chest types. My Cub store has two aisles of "upright" freezer
cases. And then there's the wall of upright frozen stuff in the meat
department (frozen fish, seafood, etc.). That one's the result of a
recent remodel of the meat department.

--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
Updated 4-24-2010 with food story and pictures

"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "dennis@home"
> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>"Rod Speed" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>>> Yes, but that air makes no difference to the effeciency of the freezer.
>>
>>It does when you open the door, that free air leaks out and is replaced by
>>nice warm moist air that has to be cooled.
>
> Do you *really* think that the entry of a few ounces of room-temperature
> air
> makes a measurable difference in the temperature of several hundred pounds
> of
> frozen food?

No, we are talking efficiency not effectiveness.

"Rod Speed" > wrote in message
...
> dennis@home wrote
>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>> dennis@home wrote
>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>
>>>>>>>> After seeing the upright models it occurred to me that when
>>>>>>>> a check freezer is full, it's really full because all the crap
>>>>>>>> is a big pile, while a full upright will still have air because
>>>>>>>> the contents are unlikely exactly match the shelf spacing.
>
>>>>>>> Yes, but that air makes no difference to the effeciency of the
>>>>>>> freezer.
>
>>>>>> It does when you open the door, that free air leaks out and is
>>>>>> replaced by nice warm moist air that has to be cooled.
>
>>>>> In practice thats a trivial effect because the specific gravity of the
>>>>> air is so low.
>
>>>> Its that low that it ices up your freezer.
>
>>> Nope, that mostly comes from what is in the freezer and happens in chest
>>> freezers anyway.
>
>> It happens faster in uprights.
>
> Not with the frost free ones it doesnt.

So what, they still use more energy to removing the water vapour that comes
in with the air.

>
>> If it came from the contents they would all suffer from freezer burn big
>> time and freezers would be useless for storing food.
>
> Wrong, as always.
>

Don't say stupid things, it is a statement of fact, if the ice comes from
the food then they dehydrate, this is freezer burn.

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article >,
> brooklyn1 > wrote:
> > Most stupidmarket food freezers/fridges are chest type and have no
> > door... instead they have a fill line and many have add-on deflectors
> > to block air agitation. Food stores are more and more moving away
> > from upright freezer/fridge units.
>
> <Crossposts removed>
>
> You're being grandiose again, you goof. Maybe "most" that you have seen
> are chest types. My Cub store has two aisles of "upright" freezer
> cases. And then there's the wall of upright frozen stuff in the meat
> department (frozen fish, seafood, etc.). That one's the result of a
> recent remodel of the meat department.

Both of my local grocery stores have moved away from the open chest
freezers to the closed door uprights. The only grocery in town now that
has the open freezers like that is Wal-mart and I rarely shop there.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >, "dennis@home" > wrote:
>
>
>"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, "dennis@home"
>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>"Rod Speed" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, but that air makes no difference to the effeciency of the freezer.
>>>
>>>It does when you open the door, that free air leaks out and is replaced by
>>>nice warm moist air that has to be cooled.
>>
>> Do you *really* think that the entry of a few ounces of room-temperature air
>> makes a measurable difference in the temperature of several hundred pounds of
>> frozen food?
>
>No, we are talking efficiency not effectiveness.
>
In other words, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

On 6/3/2010 8:05 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:19:56 +1000, Jeßus wrote:
>
>> The big downside with chest freezers you've already mentioned
>> OTOH, if you have a need to put something large in a freezer (the
>> neighbours body... or whatever) - then the chest freezer would be
>> ideal.
>
> Take out the shelves and stand them upright.
>
> Ever try and stuff a rigor mortis'ed body into a chest freezer?
>
> -sw

That's why I always cut them up into smaller portions.

TDD

dennis@home wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> dennis@home wrote
>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>> dennis@home wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote

>>>>>>>>> After seeing the upright models it occurred to me that when
>>>>>>>>> a check freezer is full, it's really full because all the crap
>>>>>>>>> is a big pile, while a full upright will still have air because the contents are unlikely exactly match the
>>>>>>>>> shelf spacing.

>>>>>>>> Yes, but that air makes no difference to the effeciency of the freezer.

>>>>>>> It does when you open the door, that free air leaks out and is replaced by nice warm moist air that has to be
>>>>>>> cooled.

>>>>>> In practice thats a trivial effect because the specific gravity of the air is so low.

>>>>> Its that low that it ices up your freezer.

>>>> Nope, that mostly comes from what is in the freezer and happens in chest freezers anyway.

>>> It happens faster in uprights.

>> Not with the frost free ones it doesnt.

> So what,

So your claim about frost in uprights is just plain wrong with frost free uprights.

> they still use more energy to removing the water vapour that comes in with the air.

But that isnt enough to matter, much less than the energy
required to freeze the contents of the freezer in the first place
and to pump out what leaks in thru the insulation all the time.

Yes, uprights are a little less efficient than chest freezers, but
when you allow for the difficulty of access to the contents of a chest
freezer compared with an upright, there is **** all in it in practice.

>>> If it came from the contents they would all suffer from freezer
>>> burn big time and freezers would be useless for storing food.

>> Wrong, as always.

> Don't say stupid things, it is a statement of fact,

Nope.

> if the ice comes from the food then they dehydrate, this is freezer burn.

Nope, quite a bit of the time its just surface moisture on the food, not freezer burn.

"Rod Speed" > wrote in message
...
> dennis@home wrote
>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>> dennis@home wrote
>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>>> dennis@home wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>> After seeing the upright models it occurred to me that when
>>>>>>>>>> a check freezer is full, it's really full because all the crap
>>>>>>>>>> is a big pile, while a full upright will still have air because
>>>>>>>>>> the contents are unlikely exactly match the shelf spacing.
>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, but that air makes no difference to the effeciency of the
>>>>>>>>> freezer.
>
>>>>>>>> It does when you open the door, that free air leaks out and is
>>>>>>>> replaced by nice warm moist air that has to be cooled.
>
>>>>>>> In practice thats a trivial effect because the specific gravity of
>>>>>>> the air is so low.
>
>>>>>> Its that low that it ices up your freezer.
>
>>>>> Nope, that mostly comes from what is in the freezer and happens in
>>>>> chest freezers anyway.
>
>>>> It happens faster in uprights.
>
>>> Not with the frost free ones it doesnt.
>
>> So what,
>
> So your claim about frost in uprights is just plain wrong with frost free
> uprights.
>
>> they still use more energy to removing the water vapour that comes in
>> with the air.
>
> But that isnt enough to matter, much less than the energy
> required to freeze the contents of the freezer in the first place
> and to pump out what leaks in thru the insulation all the time.
>
> Yes, uprights are a little less efficient than chest freezers, but
> when you allow for the difficulty of access to the contents of a chest
> freezer compared with an upright, there is **** all in it in practice.

See I was correct.

On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 07:51:37 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> brooklyn1 > wrote:
>> Most stupidmarket food freezers/fridges are chest type and have no
>> door... instead they have a fill line and many have add-on deflectors
>> to block air agitation. Food stores are more and more moving away
>> from upright freezer/fridge units.
>
><Crossposts removed>
>
>You're being grandiose again, you goof. Maybe "most" that you have seen
>are chest types. My Cub store has two aisles of "upright" freezer
>cases. And then there's the wall of upright frozen stuff in the meat
>department (frozen fish, seafood, etc.). That one's the result of a
>recent remodel of the meat department.

Where I live the stores are switching to chest type (no lid) as much
as possible, especially for ice cream/frozen veggies... with how so
many hafta open the door to decide the product actually begins to
defrost... the door is clear glass yet they still gotta stand with the
fridge door open for several minutes, just like to home... and with so
many standing with the doors open all at once may as well not have
doors. Cold beverages/dairy are in upright fridges, no door, but have
some sort of blower device that somehow seals in the cold air, like
how some malls do with doorless entries to keep cold in for summer and
warm in for winter. Of course those uprights are on exterior walls,
actually back up to the walk in storage fridge from where
they constantly replenish. The older stores in poorer neighborhoods
still haven't made the transition.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> brooklyn1 > wrote:
>> Most stupidmarket food freezers/fridges are chest type and have no
>> door... instead they have a fill line and many have add-on deflectors
>> to block air agitation. Food stores are more and more moving away
>> from upright freezer/fridge units.
>
> <Crossposts removed>
>
> You're being grandiose again, you goof. Maybe "most" that you have seen
> are chest types. My Cub store has two aisles of "upright" freezer
> cases. And then there's the wall of upright frozen stuff in the meat
> department (frozen fish, seafood, etc.). That one's the result of a
> recent remodel of the meat department.
>


Agreed. I haven't seen a chest freezer in a supermarket in years except
for small ones the drag out occasionally for small amounts of expensive
ice cream. I saw one Friday with pints of both red bean and green tea
ice creams. Didn't buy either but I was tempted.

Many of our local King Soopers/City Market (both Kroger) are remodeling
and adding yet another aisle or more of upright freezers with more
ethnic-type frozen convenience foods.

gloria p

dennis@home wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> dennis@home wrote
>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>> dennis@home wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>>>> dennis@home wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>>>>>> dennis@home wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote

>>>>>>>>>>> After seeing the upright models it occurred to me that when
>>>>>>>>>>> a check freezer is full, it's really full because all the crap is a big pile, while a full upright will
>>>>>>>>>>> still have air because the contents are unlikely exactly match the shelf spacing.

>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but that air makes no difference to the effeciency of the freezer.

>>>>>>>>> It does when you open the door, that free air leaks out and is replaced by nice warm moist air that has to be
>>>>>>>>> cooled.

>>>>>>>> In practice thats a trivial effect because the specific gravity of the air is so low.

>>>>>>> Its that low that it ices up your freezer.

>>>>>> Nope, that mostly comes from what is in the freezer and happens in chest freezers anyway.

>>>>> It happens faster in uprights.

>>>> Not with the frost free ones it doesnt.

>>> So what,

>> So your claim about frost in uprights is just plain wrong with frost free uprights.

>>> they still use more energy to removing the water vapour that comes in with the air.

>> But that isnt enough to matter, much less than the energy
>> required to freeze the contents of the freezer in the first place
>> and to pump out what leaks in thru the insulation all the time.

>> Yes, uprights are a little less efficient than chest freezers, but when you allow for the difficulty of access to the
>> contents of a chest freezer compared with an upright, there is **** all in it in practice.

> See I was correct.

Like hell you were.

On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 15:58:59 -0600, gloria.p wrote:

> Agreed. I haven't seen a chest freezer in a supermarket in years except
> for small ones the drag out occasionally for small amounts of expensive
> ice cream. I saw one Friday with pints of both red bean and green tea
> ice creams. Didn't buy either but I was tempted.

In Sheldon's defense, he did say fridges/freezers. I've certainly
seen chest type fridges (and some freezers) in the meat section
(one side fridge, the other freezer), but even most of those are
becoming uprights, with or without doors.

The meat/poultry sections are almost always uprights against the
back/side wall, and then an isle of double sided chests in front
of that.

-sw

"john hamilton" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> We need to buy a freezer. The *chest* type is what we want with the lid on
> the top.
>
> 'Which' magazine recommends the Miele GT263 and for a hundred pounds less
> the Zanussi ZFC 321 which comes in at £260.
>
> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the air inside, after
> the lid is closed. With less air trapped the theory is that it will not
> need defrosting as often as normal.
>
> Knowing that its just not easy to get an airtight seal, the suspicion is
> that it might draw the air out but; it will creep back in again anyway.
>
> Would anyone with experience of the Miele freezer know if its worth paying
> the extra £100 for this 'de-frost' feature. In other words does it work
> as a means of cutting out defrosting? Thanks for any advice.
>