Hello All!

This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
afford to be generous.

--


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
> newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
> where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they
> can afford to be generous.

I don't know what you regularly spend when you eat out, I don't
usually go over $50. Let's go wild and say I spent $100 on a
dinner, it happens now and again.

If one adhere's to the 15% tip, that's $15. It's just not going to
break the bank to drop an extra 5 or you wouldn't be eating at
that kind of restaurant. The majority of my meals, we're talking
an extra dollar or two. I just don't see it as a wild extravagance.

And I'm sure critics are reimbursed for the entire bill, including tip,
but I'm sure he tips that when it's his own dime, too.

nancy

Nancy wrote on Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:49:47 -0400:

> James Silverton wrote:
>> Hello All!
>>
>> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the
>> Washington Post newspaper) has an interview with their
>> restaurant critic Tom Sietsma where he maintains that he
>> usually tips 20%. I have never received a straight answer to whether
>> food critics include tips in the expense accounts
>> submitted to their employers. If they do include them,
>> they can afford to be generous.

> I don't know what you regularly spend when you eat out, I
> don't usually go over $50. Let's go wild and say I spent $100
> on a dinner, it happens now and again.

> If one adhere's to the 15% tip, that's $15. It's just not
> going to break the bank to drop an extra 5 or you wouldn't be eating
> at that kind of restaurant. The majority of my meals, we're talking
> an extra dollar or two. I just don't see it as a wild extravagance.

> And I'm sure critics are reimbursed for the entire bill,
> including tip, but I'm sure he tips that when it's his own
> dime, too.

I'm glad you're sure about that :-) As far as tips are concerned, it's
not the expense but the principle and I can just see generous people
advocating 25% in the near future. It's only a few more bucks :-) In my
lifetime, I've seen tipping percentages creep up from 10% or less and,
of course, seen the innumerate argument that larger percentages are
needed because of rises in the cost of living.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message news:kutOn.54606$8S5.15847@hurricane...
| James Silverton wrote:
| > Hello All!
| >
| > This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
| > newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
| > where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
| > straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
| > accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they
| > can afford to be generous.
|
| I don't know what you regularly spend when you eat out, I don't
| usually go over $50. Let's go wild and say I spent $100 on a
| dinner, it happens now and again.
|
| If one adhere's to the 15% tip, that's $15. It's just not going to
| break the bank to drop an extra 5 or you wouldn't be eating at
| that kind of restaurant. The majority of my meals, we're talking
| an extra dollar or two. I just don't see it as a wild extravagance.
|
| And I'm sure critics are reimbursed for the entire bill, including tip,
| but I'm sure he tips that when it's his own dime, too.

The standard tip in decent restaurants in Florida is 20%, more or
less, depending on the service. Almost all of the restaurants here
add an automatic (and clearly noted on the menu) 18% for large
parties or special events. The one food critic I know routinely
adds the tip to the expense account.

pavane

James Silverton wrote:
> Nancy wrote on Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:49:47 -0400:
>
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the
>>> Washington Post newspaper) has an interview with their
>>> restaurant critic Tom Sietsma where he maintains that he
>>> usually tips 20%. I have never received a straight answer to whether
>>> food critics include tips in the expense accounts
>>> submitted to their employers. If they do include them,
>>> they can afford to be generous.
>
>> I don't know what you regularly spend when you eat out, I
>> don't usually go over $50. Let's go wild and say I spent $100
>> on a dinner, it happens now and again.
>
>> If one adhere's to the 15% tip, that's $15. It's just not
>> going to break the bank to drop an extra 5 or you wouldn't be eating
>> at that kind of restaurant. The majority of my meals, we're talking
>> an extra dollar or two. I just don't see it as a wild extravagance.
>
>> And I'm sure critics are reimbursed for the entire bill,
>> including tip, but I'm sure he tips that when it's his own
>> dime, too.
>
> I'm glad you're sure about that :-)

(laugh) Well, that would be a weird contract, go dine at these
restaurants and review them to sell papers, but hey, the tip's
on you!

> As far as tips are concerned, it's not the expense but the principle

If the waitstaff takes care of me, I'm just not going to stand on
principle, like they're the opposing team or something. I just
go 10% = $4, tip = $8. Frankly, I'm even too lazy to go the
extra step to figure out 15%.

> and I can just see generous people
> advocating 25% in the near future. It's only a few more bucks :-) In
> my lifetime, I've seen tipping percentages creep up from 10% or less
> and, of course, seen the innumerate argument that larger percentages
> are needed because of rises in the cost of living.

Over the years I've also seen printed menus where the prices haven't
gone up in *forever* ... I'm pretty sure the bartender's bills have, though.
Let's just say I believe in tipping appropriately. I wouldn't stand on
principle one way or another. If you get good service, don't stick to
a rule just because.

nancy

On Jun 5, 11:36*am, Wayne Boatwright >
wrote:

>
> If someone cannot afford or is too cheap to tip appropriately for a
> decent meal in a good restaurant, then they shouldn't eat there in
> the first place.

Thus spake Wayne.
That's not an opinion, that sounds more like a Supreme Court decision!

On Jun 5, 8:55*am, "Catmandy (Sheryl)" > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 11:36*am, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If someone cannot afford or is too cheap to tip appropriately for a
> > decent meal in a good restaurant, then they shouldn't eat there in
> > the first place.
>
> Thus spake Wayne.
> That's not an opinion, that sounds more like a Supreme Court decision!

Please...STFU!!

> wrote in message
...
On Jun 5, 8:55 am, "Catmandy (Sheryl)" > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 11:36 am, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If someone cannot afford or is too cheap to tip appropriately for a
> > decent meal in a good restaurant, then they shouldn't eat there in
> > the first place.
>
> Thus spake Wayne.
> That's not an opinion, that sounds more like a Supreme Court decision!

| Please...STFU!!

So says the google-groupie.

On Jun 5, 10:39*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
> newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
> where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
> afford to be generous.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations:
> not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Everyone with an expense account includes tips. My company limits me
to 20%

Cam

James Silverton wrote:

> I'm glad you're sure about that :-) As far as tips are concerned, it's
> not the expense but the principle and I can just see generous people
> advocating 25% in the near future. It's only a few more bucks :-) In my
> lifetime, I've seen tipping percentages creep up from 10% or less and,
> of course, seen the innumerate argument that larger percentages are
> needed because of rises in the cost of living.

I don't buy the argument that tips should be a higher percentage because
the cost of living has increased. Restaurant prices rise with the cost
of living, so a 15% tip automatically increases the server's tips.
The 15% tip one a $30 meal would be $3. If that meal increases by 50% to
$30, the tips is $4.50 and the waiter is already getting a 50% raise <?>
If saps think that the needs a higher percentage for cost of living
and gives 20%, that's $6. giving the server a 100% increase.

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Over the years I've also seen printed menus where the prices haven't
> gone up in *forever* ... I'm pretty sure the bartender's bills have,
> though.

I sure haven't seen that. Since we are both retired, we don't go out for
meals as often as we used to. We had already noticed before retiring
that restaurant prices were increasing a lot. On the rare occasions that
we go out now I am shocked to see how much higher they have gone.


> Let's just say I believe in tipping appropriately. I wouldn't stand on
> principle one way or another. If you get good service, don't stick to
> a rule just because.


FWIW, we were out at a nice restaurant for lunch last weekend. It was my
brother's 40th anniversary. There were about 20 of us. Service was
slow. When the waitress came around to take drink orders, my wife asked
a question about the menu, which seemed to throw the waitress off and
she left without taking my order. I had a hell of time getting her
attention and finally someone else tagged her and told her that she
taken my drink order. She came over and I ordered a beer for me and a
glass of wine for my wife. It was a good 15 minutes before she returned
with the drinks.

That left me in a bit of a dilemma for me. The prices were pretty steep
and the bill came to almost $90, and I am expected to spend $15 on a tip
for someone who neglected me and spent all of 5 minutes dealing with me?
With 10 couples there, all paying roughly 15%, that would work out to
something int he range of $150 for the two hours she spent waiting on us.

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:39:47 -0400, James Silverton wrote:

> Hello All!
>
> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
> newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
> where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
> afford to be generous.

Is it a habit of yours giving away your employers money for no
good reason at all? Your former employers must be proud having
you on the payroll to give away their profits as you deemed fit.

-sw

>James Silverton told us...
>>
>> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington
>> Post newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom
>> Sietsma where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never
>> received a straight answer to whether food critics include tips in
>> the expense accounts submitted to their employers. If they do
>> include them, they can afford to be generous.


To my knowledge all tipping is included in expense accounts, whether
it be parking valets, bellhops, hotel maids, eaterys, etc....
typically with a reasonable limit... 20% is reasonable for a
restaurant, especially for a food critic, noteworthy eaterys usually
recognize the food critics and rate them too... I doubt too many food
critics want the reputation of "cheapo basturd".

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 13:51:02 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> Over the years I've also seen printed menus where the prices haven't
>> gone up in *forever* ... I'm pretty sure the bartender's bills have,
>> though.
>
>I sure haven't seen that. Since we are both retired, we don't go out for
>meals as often as we used to. We had already noticed before retiring
>that restaurant prices were increasing a lot. On the rare occasions that
>we go out now I am shocked to see how much higher they have gone.
>
>
>> Let's just say I believe in tipping appropriately. I wouldn't stand on
>> principle one way or another. If you get good service, don't stick to
>> a rule just because.
>
>
>FWIW, we were out at a nice restaurant for lunch last weekend. It was my
>brother's 40th anniversary. There were about 20 of us. Service was
>slow. When the waitress came around to take drink orders, my wife asked
>a question about the menu, which seemed to throw the waitress off and
>she left without taking my order. I had a hell of time getting her
>attention and finally someone else tagged her and told her that she
>taken my drink order. She came over and I ordered a beer for me and a
>glass of wine for my wife. It was a good 15 minutes before she returned
>with the drinks.
>
>That left me in a bit of a dilemma for me. The prices were pretty steep
>and the bill came to almost $90, and I am expected to spend $15 on a tip
>for someone who neglected me and spent all of 5 minutes dealing with me?
>With 10 couples there, all paying roughly 15%, that would work out to
>something int he range of $150 for the two hours she spent waiting on us.

It couldn't have been much better than a greasy spoon when the
waitress tends to the bar drinks, especially for 20 people
.... better joints have a barmaid, even a neighborhood tavern has a
barmaid, and the bar tab is separate and paid separate and so is the
bar tips; separate tip for the barmaid and separate tip for the
bartender. Whoever hosted this affair should have gone to the bar
after the first round and tipped the bartender and the barmaid...
please don't tell me this was all separate checks or no way will I
believe a word you wrote.

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:58:55 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:39:47 -0400, James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Hello All!
>>
>> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
>> newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
>> where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
>> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
>> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
>> afford to be generous.
>
>Is it a habit of yours giving away your employers money for no
>good reason at all? Your former employers must be proud having
>you on the payroll to give away their profits as you deemed fit.


Puh-leeze... not everyone earns their living as a greeter at wally
world like you, dwarf. Sheesh, sqwartz never heard of a corporate
card...

heyjoe wrote:

> Does a couple (2 people) eating a $40 meal require/use less of a
> servers time/skill than a couple eating a $70 meal? Does breakfast
> require less of a servers time than dinner? Tipping based on
> percentage of a meals cost seems (to me) an ineffective, indirect way
> of compensation for a servers time and effort.

It's funny you mention that, when I was talking about tipping
appropriately, I was thinking of this place I used to go on vacation.
Breakfast was along the lines of coffee/tea, juice, toast, eggs.
The waitress would be running around working her butt off ...
and for 2 people the bill would be $4.50.

I don't care what the tipping conventions are, there is no way I'd
leave less than 2 bucks, more likely 3. And she earned it.

On the other end of the spectrum, I totally understand why one
would not feel like tipping by percentage when they order an
expensive bottle of wine. Like, how is it someone earned that
much more to serve a $100 bottle than a bottle of (whatever's
cheap)?

nancy

heyjoe wrote:

> I realize that tips are traditionally done by percentage, but why?
>
> Does a couple (2 people) eating a $40 meal require/use less of a servers
> time/skill than a couple eating a $70 meal? Does breakfast require less of
> a servers time than dinner? Tipping based on percentage of a meals cost
> seems (to me) an ineffective, indirect way of compensation for a servers
> time and effort. Tips should be based on which meal is served (breakfast,
> lunch, dinner, dinner with drinks) and the number of people in the party,
> in other words a base line per head that increases based on the skill and
> attentiveness of the server(s).

I share your thoughts about the percentages. If a diner orders a burger
for $10, the server takes the order, relays it to the kichen staff and
then serves the diner. If the diner orders steak for $30, he or she does
the same amount of work, but is expected to be tipepd three times as
much. Look at the difference in the cost of wines. Bottles may range
from $20 to $100 or more. I don't see where the tip should be 5 times as
much for the more expensive bottle, especially when there is such an
incredible markup on wines.


> Personanlly, the current tipping scheme needs a fresh look, based on
> current economics and trends. Tipping a percentage based on the cost a
> meal is antiquated and needs to go out the window.


Tipping, IMO, is an anachronism and should be replaced with living wages
for servers so they don't have to grovel and kiss ass to make a decent
wage. I like the way things are done in most western European
countries. The price on the menu is what you pay. Taxes and service are
included in your bill, and if the service is good you can leave a little
extra.

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 13:51:02 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>FWIW, we were out at a nice restaurant for lunch last weekend. It was my
>brother's 40th anniversary. There were about 20 of us. Service was
>slow. When the waitress came around to take drink orders, my wife asked
>a question about the menu, which seemed to throw the waitress off and
>she left without taking my order. I had a hell of time getting her
>attention and finally someone else tagged her and told her that she
>taken my drink order. She came over and I ordered a beer for me and a
>glass of wine for my wife. It was a good 15 minutes before she returned
>with the drinks.
>
>That left me in a bit of a dilemma for me. The prices were pretty steep
>and the bill came to almost $90, and I am expected to spend $15 on a tip
>for someone who neglected me and spent all of 5 minutes dealing with me?
>With 10 couples there, all paying roughly 15%, that would work out to
>something int he range of $150 for the two hours she spent waiting on us.

I generally tip 20% for good to mediocre service, but what you're
describing would rate 10% if the place wasn't understaffed (here I
blame management) and 15% if it was. And if it's understaffed, I'll
also speak to the manager on my way out.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines


To reply, remove "spambot" and replace it with "cox"

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 08:55:58 -0700 (PDT), "Catmandy (Sheryl)"
> wrote:

>On Jun 5, 11:36*am, Wayne Boatwright >
>wrote:
>
>>
>> If someone cannot afford or is too cheap to tip appropriately for a
>> decent meal in a good restaurant, then they shouldn't eat there in
>> the first place.
>
>Thus spake Wayne.
>That's not an opinion, that sounds more like a Supreme Court decision!

The current roster of Supremes wouldn't make such a cogent argument.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines


To reply, remove "spambot" and replace it with "cox"

Nancy Young wrote:

>
> And I'm sure critics are reimbursed for the entire bill, including tip,
> but I'm sure he tips that when it's his own dime, too.
>
> nancy


Interesting concept: DO food critics eat out when they are not "on the
clock" evaluating restaurants? Dang, how did I miss that job
opportunity? (I'm not crazy about eating out, just sick of cooking.)

gloria p

James Silverton wrote: In my
> lifetime, I've seen tipping percentages creep up from 10% or less and,
> of course, seen the innumerate argument that larger percentages are
> needed because of rises in the cost of living.
>

In my life I've never known of tips to be suggested at only 10%. It was
suggested at 15% long ago, but I read and hear it suggested at 18% now.
I usually do 20%.

Catmandy (Sheryl) wrote:
> On Jun 5, 11:36 am, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>
>> If someone cannot afford or is too cheap to tip appropriately for a
>> decent meal in a good restaurant, then they shouldn't eat there in
>> the first place.
>
> Thus spake Wayne.
> That's not an opinion, that sounds more like a Supreme Court decision!

I agree with Wayne entirely on this. If custom is to tip, one must plan
ahead to have enough to tip.

Goomba wrote on Sat, 05 Jun 2010 16:40:38 -0400:

> James Silverton wrote: In my
>> lifetime, I've seen tipping percentages creep up from 10% or less
>> and, of course, seen the innumerate argument that larger
>> percentages are needed because of rises in the cost of
>> living.
>>
> In my life I've never known of tips to be suggested at only
> 10%. It was suggested at 15% long ago, but I read and hear it
> suggested at 18% now. I usually do 20%.

You just haven't lived long enough in either New York State or the UK
:-)
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Goomba wrote on Sat, 05 Jun 2010 16:42:18 -0400:

> Catmandy (Sheryl) wrote:
>> On Jun 5, 11:36 am, Wayne Boatwright >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If someone cannot afford or is too cheap to tip
>>> appropriately for a decent meal in a good restaurant, then
>>> they shouldn't eat there in the first place.
>>
>> Thus spake Wayne.
>> That's not an opinion, that sounds more like a Supreme Court
>> decision!

Of course I tip; usually at about the rounded up 15% level. It is
interesting to speculate why tips should be necessary or even a service
charge ("servis compris") as in Europe. I'm fully aware that the wages
that waiters are paid in the US assumes that they will be tipped but I
wonder if the the service charge actually goes to the staff in Europe?

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:

>> That left me in a bit of a dilemma for me. The prices were pretty steep
>> and the bill came to almost $90, and I am expected to spend $15 on a tip
>> for someone who neglected me and spent all of 5 minutes dealing with me?
>> With 10 couples there, all paying roughly 15%, that would work out to
>> something int he range of $150 for the two hours she spent waiting on us.
>
> I generally tip 20% for good to mediocre service, but what you're
> describing would rate 10% if the place wasn't understaffed (here I
> blame management) and 15% if it was. And if it's understaffed, I'll
> also speak to the manager on my way out.


There was one girl taking order, but there were two others who came and
filled out water glasses. I would rather have had that beer. The lunch
was at 1:30, so after the main lunch rush. It wasn't very busy. The rest
of the tables were about 1/3 empty. I might have expected that they
would have taken drink orders as people arrived. Some had come early and
we were a little late ( I wasn't driving). We were not the last, and she
didn't start taking drink orders until after everyone had arrived.

Goomba wrote:

> In my life I've never known of tips to be suggested at only 10%. It was
> suggested at 15% long ago, but I read and hear it suggested at 18% now.
> I usually do 20%.

It seems to be servers who claim it should be 18% or more. I am sure tat
most of us would have liked to make more money too.

Type your message here.

On Jun 5, 11:04*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> *Nancy *wrote *on Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:49:47 -0400:
>
>
>
>
>
> > James Silverton wrote:
> >> Hello All!
>
> >> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the
> >> Washington Post newspaper) has an interview with their
> >> restaurant critic Tom Sietsma where he maintains that he
> >> usually tips 20%. I have never received a straight answer to whether
> >> food critics include tips in the expense accounts
> >> submitted to their employers. If they do include them,
> >> they can afford to be generous.
> > I don't know what you regularly spend when you eat out, I
> > don't usually go over $50. *Let's go wild and say I spent $100
> > on a dinner, it happens now and again.
> > If one adhere's to the 15% tip, that's $15. *It's just not
> > going to break the bank to drop an extra 5 or you wouldn't be eating
> > at that kind of restaurant. *The majority of my meals, we're talking
> > an extra dollar or two. *I just don't see it as a wild extravagance.
> > And I'm sure critics are reimbursed for the entire bill,
> > including tip, but I'm sure he tips that when it's his own
> > dime, too.
>
> I'm glad you're sure about that :-) As far as tips are concerned, it's
> not the expense but the principle and I can just see generous people
> advocating 25% in the near future. It's only a few more bucks :-) In my
> lifetime, I've seen tipping percentages creep up from 10% or less and,
> of course, seen the innumerate argument that larger percentages are
> needed because of rises in the cost of living.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So true. Tips used to be considered standard at 10%. Then all of a
sudden they're at 15%. Now 20%? I tip around 10 -- 12 %; never more,
and if the wait staff sucks, zero(I haven't tipped zero yet). But
then I rarely go out to eat much. A few times a year.

On Jun 5, 4:31*pm, Andy > wrote:
> Dave Smith > wrote:
> > heyjoe wrote:
>
> >> I realize that tips are traditionally done by percentage, but why? *
>
> >> Does a couple (2 people) eating a $40 meal require/use less of a
> >> servers time/skill than a couple eating a $70 meal? *Does breakfast
> >> require less of a servers time than dinner? *Tipping based on
> >> percentage of a meals cost seems (to me) an ineffective, indirect way
> >> of compensation for a servers time and effort. *Tips should be based
> >> on which meal is served (breakfast, lunch, dinner, dinner with
> >> drinks) and the number of people in the party, in other words a base
> >> line per head that increases based on the skill and attentiveness of
> >> the server(s).
>
> > I share your thoughts about the percentages. If a diner orders a
> > burger for $10, the server takes the order, relays it to the kichen
> > staff and then serves the diner. If the diner orders steak for $30, he
> > or she does the same amount of work, but is expected to be tipepd
> > three times as much. *Look at the difference in the cost of wines.
> > Bottles may range from $20 to $100 or more. I don't see where the tip
> > should be 5 times as much for the more expensive bottle, especially
> > when there is such an incredible markup on wines.
>
> >> Personanlly, the current tipping scheme needs a fresh look, based on
> >> current economics and trends. *Tipping a percentage based on the cost
> >> a meal is antiquated and needs to go out the window.
>
> > Tipping, IMO, is an anachronism and should be replaced with living
> > wages for servers so they don't have to grovel and kiss ass to make a
> > decent wage. *I like the way things are done in most western European
> > countries. The price on the menu is what you pay. *Taxes and service
> > are included in your bill, and if the service is good you can leave a
> > little extra.
>
> I used to breakfast dine at the town diner on Thursday mornings.
>
> Pancakes, sausage links and coffee.
>
> The waitresses used to fuss over me. I think it was my cat eyes. They'd
> sit across from me at my table and chat it up while I ate. A genuine
> pleasure from both sides!
>
> Service was prompt, food quality to be expected OK.
>
> Once I asked my waitress, "do you want a good tip?" She nodded. I said
> "Don't bet on the horses!" I left $5 and laughter in my wake.
>

That's a good one Andy.

> The diner changed ownership about 5 years ago and I haven't been back
> since. It was a great chat across the room diner. Never before or since
> have I had that pleasure!
>
> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Jun 5, 4:40*pm, Goomba > wrote:
> James Silverton wrote: In my
> > lifetime, I've seen tipping percentages creep up from 10% or less and,
> > of course, seen the innumerate argument that larger percentages are
> > needed because of rises in the cost of living.
>
> In my life I've never known of tips to be suggested at only 10%. It was
> suggested at 15% long ago, but I read and hear it suggested at 18% now.
> I usually do 20%.

It used to be 10%. Depends upon your age I guess. I've been on the
rock for 54 years. You?

A Moose In Love wrote:

> It used to be 10%. Depends upon your age I guess. I've been on the
> rock for 54 years. You?

Not as long.

On Jun 5, 10:39*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
> newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
> where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
> afford to be generous.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations:
> not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In restaurants, sometimes tips are split between servers and the rest
of staff, usually kitchen staff. The dishwasher slugs it out hard.
The cooks slug it out hard. The pay isn't that great for either. If
you're a papered cook, you can get a sort of wage at a hotel or
hospital (although hospitals are changing/have changed; they buy stuff
that is heated and served instead of made from scratch, and no longer
need real cooks). Cooks that are every day joes don't make big coin.
The executive chef usually does OK, but usually not fantastic unless
he's in the big time.

"James Silverton" > wrote

.. I have never received a
> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
> afford to be generous.

Of course they do. Anyone using an expense account does as it is part of
the cost of doing business.

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 14:59:16 -0400, brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:58:55 -0500, Sqwertz >
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:39:47 -0400, James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
>>> newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
>>> where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
>>> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
>>> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
>>> afford to be generous.
>>
>>Is it a habit of yours giving away your employers money for no
>>good reason at all? Your former employers must be proud having
>>you on the payroll to give away their profits as you deemed fit.
>
> Puh-leeze... not everyone earns their living as a greeter at wally
> world like you, dwarf. Sheesh, sqwartz never heard of a corporate
> card...

Sheldon, take your right forefinger and insert it horizontally
between your lips. Now move it up and down while exhaling slowly.

That's what we hear when we read your posts.

Corporate card or cash, what WTF is the difference> You're
company is still paying for it, numbskull.

2:PM and 7 CP's down the hatch already.

-sw

"Dave Smith" > wrote
>
> I don't buy the argument that tips should be a higher percentage because
> the cost of living has increased. Restaurant prices rise with the cost of
> living, so a 15% tip automatically increases the server's tips.

Agree on that. Now that real estate prices plummeted are we going to give
agents a double commission to make up the difference? Given the economic
times, I know plenty of people that have not had a raise in a couple of
years and I know plenty of commission based sales people that are still
getting the same percentage on gross sales that dropped a lot.

OTOH, a lot of restaurants have been offering special deals to keep people
coming in. I don't stiff the staff because the owner takes a dive on his
prices. I'll tip higher percentage on that.

On 6/5/2010 2:59 PM, brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:58:55 -0500, >
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:39:47 -0400, James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> This weekend's issue of WP Magazine (included with the Washington Post
>>> newspaper) has an interview with their restaurant critic Tom Sietsma
>>> where he maintains that he usually tips 20%. I have never received a
>>> straight answer to whether food critics include tips in the expense
>>> accounts submitted to their employers. If they do include them, they can
>>> afford to be generous.
>>
>> Is it a habit of yours giving away your employers money for no
>> good reason at all? Your former employers must be proud having
>> you on the payroll to give away their profits as you deemed fit.
>
>
> Puh-leeze... not everyone earns their living as a greeter at wally
> world like you, dwarf. Sheesh, sqwartz never heard of a corporate
> card...
>

Do you actually have any real life experience or is it all in the
fantasy world that is only in your mind?

I have had numerous company credit cards and also approved expenses for
folks working for me and corporate cards aren't a license for
extraordinary spending and are treated no differently than if you
expensed cash or used your own credit.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> I don't buy the argument that tips should be a higher percentage
>> because the cost of living has increased. Restaurant prices rise with
>> the cost of living, so a 15% tip automatically increases the server's
>> tips.
>
> Agree on that. Now that real estate prices plummeted are we going to
> give agents a double commission to make up the difference? Given the
> economic times, I know plenty of people that have not had a raise in a
> couple of years and I know plenty of commission based sales people that
> are still getting the same percentage on gross sales that dropped a lot.
>
> OTOH, a lot of restaurants have been offering special deals to keep
> people coming in. I don't stiff the staff because the owner takes a
> dive on his prices. I'll tip higher percentage on that.


I haven't been seeing a lot of price cuts. What I am seeing more of is
early bird specials, which tend to be pretty good deals on dinners from
5-6 pm. That's a time when most restaurants aren't doing much business.
One way to look at it is that they are getting something at a time when
they would otherwise be getting nothing.

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 15:31:32 -0400, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

>heyjoe wrote:
>
>> Does a couple (2 people) eating a $40 meal require/use less of a
>> servers time/skill than a couple eating a $70 meal? Does breakfast
>> require less of a servers time than dinner? Tipping based on
>> percentage of a meals cost seems (to me) an ineffective, indirect way
>> of compensation for a servers time and effort.
>
>It's funny you mention that, when I was talking about tipping
>appropriately, I was thinking of this place I used to go on vacation.
>Breakfast was along the lines of coffee/tea, juice, toast, eggs.
>The waitress would be running around working her butt off ...
>and for 2 people the bill would be $4.50.
>
>I don't care what the tipping conventions are, there is no way I'd
>leave less than 2 bucks, more likely 3. And she earned it.
>
>On the other end of the spectrum, I totally understand why one
>would not feel like tipping by percentage when they order an
>expensive bottle of wine. Like, how is it someone earned that
>much more to serve a $100 bottle than a bottle of (whatever's
>cheap)?

The risk factor... what if it's dropped... the wine server has to be
much more careful with $100 wine than with a $12 liter of house wine.
And more often than folks realize those pricey wines are poured and
tasted only to discover they've spoiled. The very same risk factor
applies when comparing a burger and fries to a porterhouse and surf.
The risk factor is the main reason tipping is based on the price...
same reason performing the same service is priced so differently on a
Corolla and a Porche... I mean one would think an oil change is an oil
change, a tire rotation is a tire rotatation, a spark plug is a spark
plug... think about it.

brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>>
>> On the other end of the spectrum, I totally understand why one
>> would not feel like tipping by percentage when they order an
>> expensive bottle of wine. Like, how is it someone earned that
>> much more to serve a $100 bottle than a bottle of (whatever's
>> cheap)?
>
> The risk factor... what if it's dropped... the wine server has to be
> much more careful with $100 wine than with a $12 liter of house wine.
> And more often than folks realize those pricey wines are poured and
> tasted only to discover they've spoiled.

A server shouldn't be dropping any wine bottles. If they do, they will
be paying the cost price, not the ridiculously marked up price on the
menu. Five minutes to pour a carafe of $12 wine or 5 minutes to fetch
and uncork a $100 bottle of wine..... $1.80 vs. $15. Yeah. That really
makes sense.


> The very same risk factor
> applies when comparing a burger and fries to a porterhouse and surf.
> The risk factor is the main reason tipping is based on the price...
> same reason performing the same service is priced so differently on a
> Corolla and a Porche... I mean one would think an oil change is an oil
> change, a tire rotation is a tire rotatation, a spark plug is a spark
> plug... think about it.


How much do you tip on you oil changes and tire rotations?

heyjoe wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:39:47 -0400, James Silverton wrote:
>
>
>> usually tips 20%
>>
> Back in the day, the cost of an item on the menu was determined by the cost
> of the food (food cost was about 35% of the total cost on the menu). If
> that's still an accurate cost basis, is it reasonable to tip 20% of an
> item's price for just the server(s), when the folks behind the scenes have
> more to do with the taste and presentation of a meal than the server(s)?
>
> I realize that tips are traditionally done by percentage, but why?
>
> Does a couple (2 people) eating a $40 meal require/use less of a servers
> time/skill than a couple eating a $70 meal? Does breakfast require less of
> a servers time than dinner? Tipping based on percentage of a meals cost
> seems (to me) an ineffective, indirect way of compensation for a servers
> time and effort. Tips should be based on which meal is served (breakfast,
> lunch, dinner, dinner with drinks) and the number of people in the party,
> in other words a base line per head that increases based on the skill and
> attentiveness of the server(s).
>
> Personanlly, the current tipping scheme needs a fresh look, based on
> current economics and trends. Tipping a percentage based on the cost a
> meal is antiquated and needs to go out the window.
>
>
>
I agree. If you stop for breakfast and the bill is $8.00 it would be a
shame to leave a $1.20 tip. In this case I would leave $5.00. Delivery
guys often get the shaft. People seem to forget that they have the
drive to your house. Sure, they don't come back to refill your drinks
but they usually are driving their own cars. I'll always give them well
over 20%. It doesn't amount to a lot more money and they need it more
than the restaurant staff that isn't driving around to bring you food.