On 7/4/2010 12:08 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 7/4/2010 5:40 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>> On Jul 4, 2:27 am, > wrote:
>>> On 7/3/2010 9:23 AM, sf wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 08:53:26 -1000, > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> High power burners are great. I always cook on high. :-) The kids say
>>>>> they have an induction range in some warehouse with their name on it.
>>>
>>>> Now you and Jean can swap ideas.
>>>
>>>>> I don't like the idea of being restricted as to choice of pans I
>>>>> can use
>>>>> but will try this new fangled range if they install it.
>>>
>>>> But this means you can get *new* pots& pans... which is a good thing
>>>> after you've invested in pots& pans that refuse to die (thirty years
>>>> is long enough in my book) and you want a change.
>>>
>>>>> I grew up cooking with a gas kitchen. Looking at my dad's kitchen
>>>>> now as
>>>>> an adult, the burners seem really weak and not suitable at all for the
>>>>> way I cook. I remember the kitchen as being a hot place.
>>>
>>>> If it's the same stove as when you were a kid, it's less powerful
>>>> because it's OLD and wearing out.... just like people do. You and
>>>> your dad aren't the same as you were 30-40 years ago either.
>>>
>>> Gas stoves don't get weak during their service life - the stove had this
>>> weak output by design - just as the output on your stove is set by
>>> design. I use to clean the burners every once in a while and there's
>>> nothing to wear out and I never saw any build-up of gas residue.
>>>
>>
>> The typical consumer stove gas burner (9100 BTU/hr) puts out as much
>> heat as a "high power" electric stove coil (2600 Watts).. If you cook
>> your food with a blowtorch, you may need more BTU, but I find regular
>> burners get hot enough to burn food if I'm not paying attention.
>
> This was an old Caloric unit from the early 60s. I'm pretty sure that
> the thing was not a blowtorch and I was pretty happy with the electric
> stoves that I had after I moved out of my parent's house. My assumption
> is that newer units put out more heat - the one my parents had would be
> unacceptable to me these days.

My gas stove is about five years old now, has five burners ranging in
Btu output from 5,000 to 16,000. I can bring a big boiling water canner
to a rolling boil in about ten minutes, that's about five gallons of
water. Plus it has a self-cleaning oven that gets upward of 7-800F when
it's really cooking the gunk off the walls.

The output of a gas stove depends upon the size of the aperture feeding
the burner and the size of the burner. The new stoves are very good as
long as you remember which burner puts out the best heat for what you're
cooking.

On 7/4/2010 11:04 AM, brooklyn1 wrote:
> >wrote:
>>
>> High power burners are great. I always cook on high. :-)
>
> That's the No.1 sign of a lousy cook. The most accomplished cooks are
> those who cook low and slow. The only reasons commercial kitchens
> need mega BTUs is because they need to prepare large quantities within
> the shortest time possible, and all the smoke and flames look
> impressive to the TIADers.
>

Where do you get these ideas about cooking? No doubt somebody told you
and you believed it. One thing's for sure - if I ever need some dude
telling me there's only one way to cook, you're my go to guy. Excuse me
if I'll pass on your sage wisdom, better luck next time. :-)

On 7/4/2010 11:53 AM, George Shirley wrote:
> On 7/4/2010 12:08 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 7/4/2010 5:40 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>> On Jul 4, 2:27 am, > wrote:
>>>> On 7/3/2010 9:23 AM, sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 08:53:26 -1000, > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> High power burners are great. I always cook on high. :-) The kids say
>>>>>> they have an induction range in some warehouse with their name on it.
>>>>
>>>>> Now you and Jean can swap ideas.
>>>>
>>>>>> I don't like the idea of being restricted as to choice of pans I
>>>>>> can use
>>>>>> but will try this new fangled range if they install it.
>>>>
>>>>> But this means you can get *new* pots& pans... which is a good thing
>>>>> after you've invested in pots& pans that refuse to die (thirty years
>>>>> is long enough in my book) and you want a change.
>>>>
>>>>>> I grew up cooking with a gas kitchen. Looking at my dad's kitchen
>>>>>> now as
>>>>>> an adult, the burners seem really weak and not suitable at all for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> way I cook. I remember the kitchen as being a hot place.
>>>>
>>>>> If it's the same stove as when you were a kid, it's less powerful
>>>>> because it's OLD and wearing out.... just like people do. You and
>>>>> your dad aren't the same as you were 30-40 years ago either.
>>>>
>>>> Gas stoves don't get weak during their service life - the stove had
>>>> this
>>>> weak output by design - just as the output on your stove is set by
>>>> design. I use to clean the burners every once in a while and there's
>>>> nothing to wear out and I never saw any build-up of gas residue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The typical consumer stove gas burner (9100 BTU/hr) puts out as much
>>> heat as a "high power" electric stove coil (2600 Watts).. If you cook
>>> your food with a blowtorch, you may need more BTU, but I find regular
>>> burners get hot enough to burn food if I'm not paying attention.
>>
>> This was an old Caloric unit from the early 60s. I'm pretty sure that
>> the thing was not a blowtorch and I was pretty happy with the electric
>> stoves that I had after I moved out of my parent's house. My assumption
>> is that newer units put out more heat - the one my parents had would be
>> unacceptable to me these days.
>
> My gas stove is about five years old now, has five burners ranging in
> Btu output from 5,000 to 16,000. I can bring a big boiling water canner
> to a rolling boil in about ten minutes, that's about five gallons of
> water. Plus it has a self-cleaning oven that gets upward of 7-800F when
> it's really cooking the gunk off the walls.
>
> The output of a gas stove depends upon the size of the aperture feeding
> the burner and the size of the burner. The new stoves are very good as
> long as you remember which burner puts out the best heat for what you're
> cooking.

I have no doubt that modern ranges have a higher output. This is
reasonable - back in the 50s - 60s, high temperature frying wasn't the
style like it is these days.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> I have no doubt that modern ranges have a higher output. This is
> reasonable - back in the 50s - 60s, high temperature frying wasn't the
> style like it is these days.

Back in the 50s my parents had a stove (Moffat electric) with a burner
that would drop down into a recess and there was a special pot to insert
into it for deep frying.

brooklyn1 wrote:
> >wrote:
>> High power burners are great. I always cook on high. :-)
>
> That's the No.1 sign of a lousy cook. The most accomplished cooks are
> those who cook low and slow. The only reasons commercial kitchens
> need mega BTUs is because they need to prepare large quantities within
> the shortest time possible, and all the smoke and flames look
> impressive to the TIADers.
>

To use high heat is the sign of a lousy cook?
Bullshit!!

Using high heat for everything is the sign of a bad cook, but there are
things that call for high heat. Heating a a large pot of water requires
lots of heat. Cooking jam takes lots of heat. You don't want to sit
there for half an hour waiting for something to come to a boil.

On Jul 4, 6:21*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> brooklyn1 wrote:
> > >wrote:
> >> High power burners are great. I always cook on high. :-)
>
> > That's the No.1 sign of a lousy cook. *The most accomplished cooks are
> > those who cook low and slow. *The only reasons commercial kitchens
> > need mega BTUs is because they need to prepare large quantities within
> > the shortest time possible, and all the smoke and flames look
> > impressive to the TIADers.
>
> To use high heat is the sign of a lousy cook?
> Bullshit!!
>
> Using high heat for everything is the sign of a bad cook, but there are
> things that call for high heat. Heating a a large pot of water requires
> lots of heat. Cooking jam takes lots of heat. You don't want to sit
> there for half an hour waiting for something to come to a boil.

I never knew boiling water was the sign of a good cook until now.

I have scorched jam on my consumer-grade stove before -- if a stove
offered continuous stirring, that would be a plus in my book.

On 7/4/2010 1:06 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> I have no doubt that modern ranges have a higher output. This is
>> reasonable - back in the 50s - 60s, high temperature frying wasn't the
>> style like it is these days.
>
> Back in the 50s my parents had a stove (Moffat electric) with a burner
> that would drop down into a recess and there was a special pot to insert
> into it for deep frying.

Now that's cool. I really liked the kitchen we used to have in San Bruno
CA around 1980. It was small but open and bright and the stove was retro
even back then.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> dsi1 wrote:
> >
> > I have no doubt that modern ranges have a higher output. This is
> > reasonable - back in the 50s - 60s, high temperature frying wasn't the
> > style like it is these days.
>
> Back in the 50s my parents had a stove (Moffat electric) with a burner
> that would drop down into a recess and there was a special pot to insert
> into it for deep frying.

That's a really good idea. Pots of hot oil
are one of the biggest hazards in the kitchen.
It would probably have been good for boiling
pasta, too.

On 7/2/2010 5:35 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> It certainly will! Gas cooking is good on cold days when you *want*
>> to heat up the kitchen.
>
> FYI, I have never had a problem with gas stovetop usage heating up
> a kitchen.
>
> If one heats a pot on a stove, sooner or later all of those BTUs
> end up heating the kitchen, regardless of stove type.

The BTUs that go into the pot aren't the issue. It's all the _other_
BTUs that go into the air but never make it into the pot that are the
problem.

The main
> exception being if you remove the heated-up pot from the room entirely.
> (Putting it in a refrigerator in the same room does not buy you
> anything, because this causes the refrigerator's coils to emit
> that much more heat.)
>
> The gas oven does heat up the kitchen. I do not know if this
> is a stronger effect than with an electric oven, but I doubt it.
> I might avoid doing a three-hour oven-braising recipe on a hot
> day, but I have done it without it being a real problem.
>
> Steve

On 7/3/2010 10:52 AM, Jean B. wrote:
> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>> When did KitchenAid branch beyond mixers? I wonder who really built
>> it.
>>
> [snip]
>
> KitchenAid is part of the Whirlpool family. And KA's first products were
> not mixers (actually those products were under the Hobart label).

What were Kitchenaid's first products and when?

J. wrote on Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:36:15 -0400:

> On 7/3/2010 10:52 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>> When did KitchenAid branch beyond mixers? I wonder who
>>> really built it.
>>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> KitchenAid is part of the Whirlpool family. And KA's first
>> products were not mixers (actually those products were under the
>> Hobart label).

I have seen a Hobart bakery mixer. It is floor standing, about 5 ft
tall, plain gray but looks like a magnified current Kitchen-Aid mixer.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

J. Clarke > wrote:

>On 7/2/2010 5:35 PM, Steve Pope wrote:

>> If one heats a pot on a stove, sooner or later all of those BTUs
>> end up heating the kitchen, regardless of stove type.

>The BTUs that go into the pot aren't the issue. It's all the _other_
>BTUs that go into the air but never make it into the pot that are the
>problem.

I'm just saying the both BTUs the make it to the pot, and
BTUs that don't will heat up your kitchen.

I agree that an average gas stove leaks more BTU's than certain
other stoves. But I'd guess it's no more than 20% different.
So if a more efficient stove heats your kitchen 5 degrees during
a given kitchen operation, the gas stove might heat it 6 degress.
No big deal.

Steve

J. Clarke wrote:
> On 7/3/2010 10:52 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>> When did KitchenAid branch beyond mixers? I wonder who really built
>>> it.
>>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> KitchenAid is part of the Whirlpool family. And KA's first products were
>> not mixers (actually those products were under the Hobart label).
>
> What were Kitchenaid's first products and when?
>
>
I think they first used that name for mixers, but I am not
sure.... I was thinking of the whole company history, not
necessarily the history of the KA name.

--
Jean B.

James Silverton wrote:
> J. wrote on Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:36:15 -0400:
>
>> On 7/3/2010 10:52 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>>> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>>> When did KitchenAid branch beyond mixers? I wonder who
>>>> really built it.
>>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> KitchenAid is part of the Whirlpool family. And KA's first
>>> products were not mixers (actually those products were under the
>>> Hobart label).
>
> I have seen a Hobart bakery mixer. It is floor standing, about 5 ft
> tall, plain gray but looks like a magnified current Kitchen-Aid mixer.
>
I believe Hobart still makes the large commercial mixers.

--
Jean B.

On 7/5/2010 7:01 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
> J. > wrote:
>
>> On 7/2/2010 5:35 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> If one heats a pot on a stove, sooner or later all of those BTUs
>>> end up heating the kitchen, regardless of stove type.
>
>> The BTUs that go into the pot aren't the issue. It's all the _other_
>> BTUs that go into the air but never make it into the pot that are the
>> problem.
>
> I'm just saying the both BTUs the make it to the pot, and
> BTUs that don't will heat up your kitchen.
>
> I agree that an average gas stove leaks more BTU's than certain
> other stoves. But I'd guess it's no more than 20% different.
> So if a more efficient stove heats your kitchen 5 degrees during
> a given kitchen operation, the gas stove might heat it 6 degress.
> No big deal.

1 degress is no big deal. The more bothersome is the heat radiated into
the face and arms of the cook. If I don't have a proper sized pan on my
cooktop, the heat coming off of it is easily felt. A fire ring on a gas
stove would probably increase it's efficiency. I also think it's also
likely that a gas oven makes for an uncomfortable kitchen because of the
large amount of water vapor it produces.

>
> Steve

dsi1 > wrote:

>On 7/5/2010 7:01 AM, Steve Pope wrote:

>> I agree that an average gas stove leaks more BTU's than certain
>> other stoves. But I'd guess it's no more than 20% different.
>> So if a more efficient stove heats your kitchen 5 degrees during
>> a given kitchen operation, the gas stove might heat it 6 degress.
>> No big deal.

>1 degress is no big deal.

Okay

>The more bothersome is the heat radiated into
>the face and arms of the cook. If I don't have a proper sized pan on my
>cooktop, the heat coming off of it is easily felt.

I feel some heat when cooking, but not enough to bother me.
In fact it is useful sensory input, as it tells me hot things
are getting.

A more substantive problem is the propensity of gas burners
to light hair or clothing on fire as you lean over the stove.
I think this is more likely than with other types of burners.

> I also think it's also likely that a gas oven makes for an
> uncomfortable kitchen because of the large amount of water
> vapor it produces.

This is perhaps true in humid climates.

Steve

On 7/5/2010 9:42 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2010 7:01 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> I agree that an average gas stove leaks more BTU's than certain
>>> other stoves. But I'd guess it's no more than 20% different.
>>> So if a more efficient stove heats your kitchen 5 degrees during
>>> a given kitchen operation, the gas stove might heat it 6 degress.
>>> No big deal.
>
>> 1 degress is no big deal.
>
> Okay
>
>> The more bothersome is the heat radiated into
>> the face and arms of the cook. If I don't have a proper sized pan on my
>> cooktop, the heat coming off of it is easily felt.
>
> I feel some heat when cooking, but not enough to bother me.
> In fact it is useful sensory input, as it tells me hot things
> are getting.

That's like saying improperly sized pans or not placing your pans
directly over the burners is useful for determining how hot your pans
are getting. I would rather not feel any heat at all - I don't much care
for the glass cooktop I'm using but the efficiency of heat transfer is
awesome when using flat pans of the proper size.


>
> A more substantive problem is the propensity of gas burners
> to light hair or clothing on fire as you lean over the stove.
> I think this is more likely than with other types of burners.

You sure got that right.

>
>> I also think it's also likely that a gas oven makes for an
>> uncomfortable kitchen because of the large amount of water
>> vapor it produces.
>
> This is perhaps true in humid climates.

This is true. I think this property of gas stoves to produce water vapor
would be welcome during the winters on the mainland.

>
> Steve

dsi1 > wrote:

>On 7/5/2010 9:42 AM, Steve Pope wrote:

>> I feel some heat when cooking, but not enough to bother me.
>> In fact it is useful sensory input, as it tells me hot things
>> are getting.

>That's like saying improperly sized pans or not placing your pans
>directly over the burners is useful for determining how hot your pans
>are getting. I would rather not feel any heat at all

To do all the things I need to do, I cook rather quickly. If
I happen to go to the stove to stir one pot, and I notice
thermally that the pot next to it is up to temperature without
having to look at it, that saves me a few seconds.

Similarly I like being able to hear things as they are cooking
on the stove. That tells me how fast they are going. This is
why I really dislike noisy kitchen fans -- they interfere with
hearing what I'm cooking.

In any case a gas burner gives you more direct feedback on
what you're doing. This may or may not be to your liking,
but I like it.

Steve

Mark Thorson wrote:

>>> I have no doubt that modern ranges have a higher output. This is
>>> reasonable - back in the 50s - 60s, high temperature frying wasn't the
>>> style like it is these days.
>> Back in the 50s my parents had a stove (Moffat electric) with a burner
>> that would drop down into a recess and there was a special pot to insert
>> into it for deep frying.
>
> That's a really good idea. Pots of hot oil
> are one of the biggest hazards in the kitchen.
> It would probably have been good for boiling
> pasta, too.

We thought it was a good idea. It meant French fries more often ... for
a while. After a while my mother didn't use it much. I have never seen a
another stove with a recessing burner.

On 7/5/2010 10:43 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2010 9:42 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> I feel some heat when cooking, but not enough to bother me.
>>> In fact it is useful sensory input, as it tells me hot things
>>> are getting.
>
>> That's like saying improperly sized pans or not placing your pans
>> directly over the burners is useful for determining how hot your pans
>> are getting. I would rather not feel any heat at all
>
> To do all the things I need to do, I cook rather quickly. If
> I happen to go to the stove to stir one pot, and I notice
> thermally that the pot next to it is up to temperature without
> having to look at it, that saves me a few seconds.
>
> Similarly I like being able to hear things as they are cooking
> on the stove. That tells me how fast they are going. This is
> why I really dislike noisy kitchen fans -- they interfere with
> hearing what I'm cooking.
>
> In any case a gas burner gives you more direct feedback on
> what you're doing. This may or may not be to your liking,
> but I like it.

What I like or dislike is pretty irrelevant to your style of cooking.
It's not my intention to tell you how to cook however, you should be
aware of the good and bad of anything you choose or do not choose. I
happen to like old style electric elements but that's pretty much
disappearing. This may or may not be to your liking, but I like it.

>
> Steve

On 7/5/2010 2:35 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 7/5/2010 7:01 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
>> J. > wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/2/2010 5:35 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>>
>>>> If one heats a pot on a stove, sooner or later all of those BTUs
>>>> end up heating the kitchen, regardless of stove type.
>>
>>> The BTUs that go into the pot aren't the issue. It's all the _other_
>>> BTUs that go into the air but never make it into the pot that are the
>>> problem.
>>
>> I'm just saying the both BTUs the make it to the pot, and
>> BTUs that don't will heat up your kitchen.
>>
>> I agree that an average gas stove leaks more BTU's than certain
>> other stoves. But I'd guess it's no more than 20% different.
>> So if a more efficient stove heats your kitchen 5 degrees during
>> a given kitchen operation, the gas stove might heat it 6 degress.
>> No big deal.
>
> 1 degress is no big deal. The more bothersome is the heat radiated into
> the face and arms of the cook. If I don't have a proper sized pan on my
> cooktop, the heat coming off of it is easily felt. A fire ring on a gas
> stove would probably increase it's efficiency. I also think it's also
> likely that a gas oven makes for an uncomfortable kitchen because of the
> large amount of water vapor it produces.
>
>>
>> Steve
>

My gas stove and every one I've ever seen has a variable control valve
to set the height of flame you want. You don't have to have the highest
flame to get the job done. The only water vapor produced by a gas stove
is that given off by whatever liquid you're cooking in the pot, the same
amount that an electric stove would put out if you're boiling something
on one of those.

On 7/5/2010 2:42 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2010 7:01 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> I agree that an average gas stove leaks more BTU's than certain
>>> other stoves. But I'd guess it's no more than 20% different.
>>> So if a more efficient stove heats your kitchen 5 degrees during
>>> a given kitchen operation, the gas stove might heat it 6 degress.
>>> No big deal.
>
>> 1 degress is no big deal.
>
> Okay
>
>> The more bothersome is the heat radiated into
>> the face and arms of the cook. If I don't have a proper sized pan on my
>> cooktop, the heat coming off of it is easily felt.
>
> I feel some heat when cooking, but not enough to bother me.
> In fact it is useful sensory input, as it tells me hot things
> are getting.
>
> A more substantive problem is the propensity of gas burners
> to light hair or clothing on fire as you lean over the stove.
> I think this is more likely than with other types of burners.

Have you people no concept of personal safety? I've been cooking on both
gas and electric stoves for over sixty years and have never set my
clothing nor my hair on fire.
>
>> I also think it's also likely that a gas oven makes for an
>> uncomfortable kitchen because of the large amount of water
>> vapor it produces.
>
> This is perhaps true in humid climates.
>
> Steve

I still disagree about the water vapor a gas stove produces, I live in
an area where the average summer humidity is approaching 100% all the
time. That's why the deity invented air conditioning, to take the
humidity out of the air.

George Shirley > wrote:

>My gas stove and every one I've ever seen has a variable control valve
>to set the height of flame you want.

True, but on many gas stoves (not mine, fortunately) one cannot
reduce the size of the flame past a certain point. On these
stoves it can be difficult to set something on very low heat.

S.

George Shirley > wrote:

>On 7/5/2010 2:42 PM, Steve Pope wrote:

>> A more substantive problem is the propensity of gas burners
>> to light hair or clothing on fire as you lean over the stove.

>Have you people no concept of personal safety? I've been cooking on both
>gas and electric stoves for over sixty years and have never set my
>clothing nor my hair on fire.

I did not say this has happened to me.

S.

On Jul 5, 11:45*am, George Shirley > wrote:
> On 7/5/2010 2:35 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 7/5/2010 7:01 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
> >> J. > wrote:
>
> >>> On 7/2/2010 5:35 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >>>> If one heats a pot on a stove, sooner or later all of those BTUs
> >>>> end up heating the kitchen, regardless of stove type.
>
> >>> The BTUs that go into the pot aren't the issue. It's all the _other_
> >>> BTUs that go into the air but never make it into the pot that are the
> >>> problem.
>
> >> I'm just saying the both BTUs the make it to the pot, and
> >> BTUs that don't will heat up your kitchen.
>
> >> I agree that an average gas stove leaks more BTU's than certain
> >> other stoves. But I'd guess it's no more than 20% different.
> >> So if a more efficient stove heats your kitchen 5 degrees during
> >> a given kitchen operation, the gas stove might heat it 6 degress.
> >> No big deal.
>
> > 1 degress is no big deal. The more bothersome is the heat radiated into
> > the face and arms of the cook. If I don't have a proper sized pan on my
> > cooktop, the heat coming off of it is easily felt. A fire ring on a gas
> > stove would probably increase it's efficiency. I also think it's also
> > likely that a gas oven makes for an uncomfortable kitchen because of the
> > large amount of water vapor it produces.
>
> >> Steve
>
> My gas stove and every one I've ever seen has a variable control valve
> to set the height of flame you want. You don't have to have the highest
> flame to get the job done. The only water vapor produced by a gas stove
> is that given off by whatever liquid you're cooking in the pot, the same
> amount that an electric stove would put out if you're boiling something
> on one of those.

I didn't pay much attention during chem class but it seems that you
must have cut class when this was disscussed. You may have noticed
some sweating on your pans if you put a pan filled with a cool liquid
on the stove or maybe you've seen some condensation near the vent of
your oven while preheating. Guess where the water is coming from.
Burning PLG or LNG will produce a large amount of water. Don't take my
word for it. Google it! :-)

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> On 7/5/2010 2:35 PM, dsi1 wrote:

> > likely that a gas oven makes for an uncomfortable kitchen because of the
> > large amount of water vapor it produces.

> The only water vapor produced by a gas stove
> is that given off by whatever liquid you're cooking in the pot, the same
> amount that an electric stove would put out if you're boiling something
> on one of those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane

"Methane is a chemical compound with the chemical formula CH4. It is the
simplest alkane, and the principal component of natural gas. Methane's
bond angles are 109.5 degrees. Burning methane in the presence of
oxygen produces carbon dioxide and water."

You can test this easily. Place a pot of cold water on an electric
stove. You will see no moisture on the bottom of the pot. Now try it
with a gas burner. Water will condense on the bottom of the pot from
the flame until the pot gets warm enough.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 21:35:51 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote:

>sf > wrote:
>
>>It certainly will! Gas cooking is good on cold days when you *want*
>>to heat up the kitchen.
>
>FYI, I have never had a problem with gas stovetop usage heating up
>a kitchen.

You live in a milder climate than many of us. If it's 90+ and humid
there's no way you wouldn't notice a difference. Even just one 12,000
BTU burner fighting the air conditioning makes a big difference.

>If one heats a pot on a stove, sooner or later all of those BTUs
>end up heating the kitchen, regardless of stove type.

The gap between the burner holes and the pan or pot allow an air
current to occur and many of those BTU's are wasted. (as in never
reach the cooking vessel) You don't have that with electric.

>The main
>exception being if you remove the heated-up pot from the room entirely.
>(Putting it in a refrigerator in the same room does not buy you
>anything, because this causes the refrigerator's coils to emit
>that much more heat.)

Good gawd.

Lou

On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:36:15 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> wrote:

>On 7/3/2010 10:52 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>> When did KitchenAid branch beyond mixers? I wonder who really built
>>> it.
>>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> KitchenAid is part of the Whirlpool family. And KA's first products were
>> not mixers (actually those products were under the Hobart label).
>
>What were Kitchenaid's first products and when?
>

I don't have an answer for your question but in the early 50's mixers
were branded with both names. I think it was hobart first:
Hobart-Kitchenaid Model #XXXX. I bought one at a resale store for 7
bucks and traced the numbers back to 1952. It worked and could whip
up a very light load but a 50+ year old motor can't do what today's
stuff will do. It was just something to look at and enjoy on a shelf.
So 5 years ago I needed room (and money) so I did some googling and
found the bowl was where the money was. Someone on a non-eBay antique
site was looking for 50 bucks just for a chipped bowl and there were
many queries of people looking for the same bowl. My bowl was
pristine. I put it on eBay and got a whopping 26 bucks for it.
Louise goofed on the packaging and just charged shipping so it was a
loss because it took me a long time to pack it to make sure the bowl
didn't break. It was advertised as a nostalgic working display item
for a retro kitchen but the goofball thought it should perform like a
new KA mixer and smoked the 50+ year old motor.

This and overseas sales taught us a lot about eBay.

Lou

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 21:57:06 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote:

>sf > wrote:
>
>>If you can't feel the blast of lost heat from a gas stove, you must be
>>wearing a 3 piece suit. When I first got it, I was so surprised by
>>how hot it is standing in front of a gas stove that I looked it up.
>>Gas is only 50% efficient, while electric is 75% - big difference.
>>Too bad electricity is so expensive.
>
>What type and vintage of gas stove are you using?

What would that have to do with anything?

>Mine is an early-20'th-century Spark. I do not think too much
>wasted heat escapes, unless you are using too small a diameter pan.

You're being stubborn. I cook with both a gas and an electric
smooth-top. Although they are in different kitchens I can say there's
no doubt the gas heats up the kitchen far more.

Lou

Lou Decruss > wrote:

>On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 21:57:06 +0000 (UTC), (Steve

>Pope) wrote:
>
>>What type and vintage of gas stove are you using?

>What would that have to do with anything?

Lots. There are two major factors making some gas stoves more
prone to over-heating the environment. One is if the burners
cannot be turned down low enough. The other is if the burners
are mis-shaped and too much heat escapes. They are not all the
same.

>>Mine is an early-20'th-century Spark. I do not think too much
>>wasted heat escapes, unless you are using too small a diameter pan.
>
>You're being stubborn. I cook with both a gas and an electric
>smooth-top. Although they are in different kitchens I can say there's
>no doubt the gas heats up the kitchen far more.

What type and vintage is the gas stove?

Steve

On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:21:37 -0500, Lou Decruss wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 21:57:06 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
> Pope) wrote:
>
>>sf > wrote:
>>
>>>If you can't feel the blast of lost heat from a gas stove, you must be
>>>wearing a 3 piece suit. When I first got it, I was so surprised by
>>>how hot it is standing in front of a gas stove that I looked it up.
>>>Gas is only 50% efficient, while electric is 75% - big difference.
>>>Too bad electricity is so expensive.
>>
>>What type and vintage of gas stove are you using?
>
> What would that have to do with anything?
>
>>Mine is an early-20'th-century Spark. I do not think too much
>>wasted heat escapes, unless you are using too small a diameter pan.
>
> You're being stubborn. I cook with both a gas and an electric
> smooth-top. Although they are in different kitchens I can say there's
> no doubt the gas heats up the kitchen far more.
>
> Lou

but doesn't the smooth-top heat up the kitchen less than a conventional
electric (coil) burner as well?

your pal,
blake

On 7/7/2010 8:21 AM, Lou Decruss wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 21:57:06 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
> Pope) wrote:
>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> If you can't feel the blast of lost heat from a gas stove, you must be
>>> wearing a 3 piece suit. When I first got it, I was so surprised by
>>> how hot it is standing in front of a gas stove that I looked it up.
>>> Gas is only 50% efficient, while electric is 75% - big difference.
>>> Too bad electricity is so expensive.
>>
>> What type and vintage of gas stove are you using?
>
> What would that have to do with anything?
>
>> Mine is an early-20'th-century Spark. I do not think too much
>> wasted heat escapes, unless you are using too small a diameter pan.
>
> You're being stubborn. I cook with both a gas and an electric
> smooth-top. Although they are in different kitchens I can say there's
> no doubt the gas heats up the kitchen far more.
>
> Lou

Do you have a vent fan over your gas stove Lou? Local code says we have
to have one to remove the gases emitted by burning natural gas or
propane. My kitchen doesn't heat up any worse than it did when I had an
electric stove. Of course I seldom run a burner wide open at any time.

George Shirley > wrote:

>Do you have a vent fan over your gas stove Lou? Local code says we have
>to have one to remove the gases emitted by burning natural gas or
>propane.

All local (U.S. location) codes with which I am familiar only
require the vent fan if the stove burner BTU's are above some
threshold, which usually corresponds to a "professional" stove
like a Viking instead of a consumer-grade stove.

Of course, local codes vary by locality.

Steve

TYMNTY wrote:
> I made this amazing discovery! one of the best food blogs ive read by
> far!!!
>
> 'Things Your Mother Never Taught You'
> (http://thingsyourmothernevertaughtyou.com/)

You just made this amazing discovery, huh? And you thought you'd
pass it along 50 times or so. It's not YOUR blog, is it? TYMNTY?

nancy

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:08:28 +0000, TYMNTY
> wrote:
>
> I made this amazing discovery! one of the best food blogs ive read by
> far!!!

Change that to "I'm touting my own blog" and tagging on to unrelated
threads just so someone will read me; just like every other
unimaginative spammer in the world does.
>
> 'Things Your Mother Never Taught You'
> (http://thingsyourmothernevertaughtyou.com/)
>
>
Since you obviously only read usenet to pick a thread for spamming
purposes and the foodbanter moderators are not doing their job, here's
a clue. PARTICIPATE and put your blog address in your (properly
configured) sig line. It's as simple as pie.


--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.