Boron Elgar > wrote:

>Have a great time. See some shows, stroll avenues, if your weather is
>good, splurge on something notoriously overpriced and silly - a double
>Decker tour. Honestly, I've sent friends to do it and they've had a
>blast. It can be fun. Or take a boat ride on the Hudson. Crappy food
>on those boats, so that is a great time to take a Zabar's lunch along.

I haven't been on a double decker bus in NYC, but in London I
often seek out the upper level of a normal Transport for London
bus. Much better than riding a train underground (if you can
allot the time for it).

Regarding boat rides, the Staten Island ferry is interesting and the
price is right.

S.

"George" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/1/2010 2:56 PM, brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Kris wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
>>
>> Everything.
>
> That was really helpful.

Actually, it was. There are over 20,000 restaurants in NYC. It is also one
of the largest cities. To narrow it down any more than was already (deli,
street vendor, Italian) is nearly impossible.

It would help to have a budget idea and a section of the city you are in for
more specific recommendations. Doing the obvious like avoiding chains and
tourist traps, there are thousands of good places to eat. Do you want to
spend $100 for dinner or is it OK to pay that much just for the appetizers?
You can do both there.

You can eat 3 meals a day for your entire life and never try them all as
many would open and close before you had the chance. Depending on your
mood, a Nathan's hot dog can be on par with a Peter Lugar steak.

On Jul 1, 11:39*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "George" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On 7/1/2010 2:56 PM, brooklyn1 wrote:
> >> Kris wrote:
>
> >>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
>
> >> Everything.
>
> > That was really helpful.
>
> Actually, it was. *There are over 20,000 restaurants in NYC. It is also one
> of the largest cities. *To narrow it down any more than was already (deli,
> street vendor, Italian) is nearly impossible.
>
> It would help to have a budget idea and a section of the city you are in for
> more specific recommendations. *Doing the obvious like avoiding chains and
> tourist traps, there are thousands of good places to eat. * Do you want to
> spend $100 for dinner or is it OK to pay that much just for the appetizers?
> You can do both there.
>
> You can eat 3 meals a day for your entire life and never try them all as
> many would open and close before you had the chance. *Depending on your
> mood, a Nathan's hot dog can be on par with a Peter Lugar steak.

Lunch max $30/person. Can be a dive or a nice place - we're open to
either. Dinners will be nicer (see above)

We're staying in Midtown East/Murray Hill, but we'll be walking down
to Battery Park and up through Central Park. Keeping to Mahattan,
though due to the 3-day time limit.

Thanks,
Kris

A few suggestions:

- Katz's Deli on Houston.

- Mario Batali's and Joe Bastianich's tapas place Casa Solo, off Union
Square. Crowded, noisy, great food.

- For the tourist experience, Restaurant Row, 46th St. between 8th and
9th Aves. Particularly one place whose name escapes me -- ah, Mason
Sevilla! -- whose menu is half Italian and half Spanish.

- For the old-time atmosphere, Tout va Bien, 51st just west of 8th Ave.
Established in the 1940s to feed the crews of French liners, it's
traditional French, and packed with more French speakers (mostly soccer
fans) than English. During the US Open, all the French players eat here
every night.

- If you're a Tony Bourdain fan, Les Halles, preferably downtown. No, he
doesn't cook there. But it's still the best onglet (hanger steak) and
frites around.

-- Larry

On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Kris >
wrote:

<snip>

>What do you consider New York must-haves? I'm thinking some good
>Jewish deli, an inventive street vendor, maybe some great Italian.

I hesitate to mention this (selfishly don't want to increase their
traffic), b/c it's our favorite go-to Italian place in the East
Village: Frank:

http://www.frankrestaurant.com/

Get there early (very, very limited seating) - daily menu changes, no
reservations and everything is wonderful. And Bond 45 in Manhattan is
fabulou$$$.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines


To reply, remove "spambot" and replace it with "cox"

On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 19:21:55 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:


>
>I trained in shopping techniques at those wonderful places.

You wouldn't believe the area . It is upscale gentrified. A few of the
food places remain, but not many.

There is a Whole Foods down there now.

Boron

In article
>,
Kris > wrote:

> Good afternoon all,
>
> My DH has surprised me with a long weekend in NYC next weekend for my
> (gasp) 40th birthday.
>
> I've been busy reading up on great restaurants and food along with the
> usual "What should I see" types of things.
>
> My joy is that this trip we can "splash out" more than the last time I
> went there, back in '96, as I was a poor 20-something then. So we're
> going to a couple of great places for dinners, and leaving lunches &
> breakfast open to what we see wherever we are that time of day.
>
> What do you consider New York must-haves? I'm thinking some good
> Jewish deli, an inventive street vendor, maybe some great Italian.
>
> Any other ideas? Any suggestions on either types of food or actual
> places.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kris

There are literally thousands of places in NYC. For good Jewish Deli,
there's the 2nd Avenue Deli, but the place is the size of a phone booth,
so it is not somewhere one will have a romantic meal.

If I were you, I would check out Chowhound.com's Manhattan section at
http://chowhound.chow.com/boards/18?tag=bd;main_body for dining ideas.

"Stan Horwitz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> Kris > wrote:
>
>> What do you consider New York must-haves? I'm thinking some good>> Jewish
>> deli, an inventive street vendor, maybe some great Italian.

> There are literally thousands of places in NYC. For good Jewish Deli, >
> there's the 2nd Avenue Deli, but the place is the size of a phone booth,
> so it is not somewhere one will have a romantic meal.
>
> If I were you, I would check out Chowhound.com's Manhattan section at
> http://chowhound.chow.com/boards/18?tag=bd;main_body for dining ideas.

Have a look also at the Amateur Gourmet. He reviews from the top to the
simplest. Use the search on his page. His reviews are very, very specific,
so you won't be left wondering what to eat.

On 7/1/2010 11:39 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "George" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 7/1/2010 2:56 PM, brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> Kris wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
>>>
>>> Everything.
>>
>> That was really helpful.
>
> Actually, it was. There are over 20,000 restaurants in NYC. It is also
> one of the largest cities. To narrow it down any more than was already
> (deli, street vendor, Italian) is nearly impossible.

I don't think so. One thing about NYC is that it is quite easy to move
about. So if someone suggests a street vendor and it strikes a chord
with you you simply go there with ease. The other part I don't get is
that when you suggests the outer boroughs you get a look like you
suggested going to Uzbekistan. There are some great gems in the outer
boroughs and it is a quick ride on the subway.

We were just out there two weeks ago and a friend had suggested a
Mexican place in Jackson Heights. They make their own tortillas on site
and the woman who owns the restaurant puts her soul into everything.
Even though we were at an event in Manhattan it was a quick ride on the
train to get to the restaurant and we enjoyed a great meal as a result.

>
> It would help to have a budget idea and a section of the city you are in
> for more specific recommendations. Doing the obvious like avoiding
> chains and tourist traps, there are thousands of good places to eat. Do
> you want to spend $100 for dinner or is it OK to pay that much just for
> the appetizers? You can do both there.

I thought the premise was they were going to splurge on dinner and look
for interesting other venues for lunch?

>
> You can eat 3 meals a day for your entire life and never try them all as
> many would open and close before you had the chance. Depending on your
> mood, a Nathan's hot dog can be on par with a Peter Lugar steak.

On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 21:08:11 -0700 (PDT), Kris >
wrote:

>We're staying in Midtown East/Murray Hill, but we'll be walking down
>to Battery Park and up through Central Park. Keeping to Mahattan,
>though due to the 3-day time limit.

You are staying near the Morgan Library. If you have some time, I
think you may like it.

http://www.themorgan.org/home.asp

On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:33:10 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> Kris wrote:
>>>
>>>What do you consider New York must-haves?
>>
>> Everything.
>
> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity.

you should hear what the new yorkers say about you.

blake

On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> Don Martinich wrote:
>>
>> In article .com>,
>> "Pete C." > wrote:
>>
>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
>>> elsewhere.
>>
>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
>
> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.

not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?

blake

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > Don Martinich wrote:
> >>
> >> In article .com>,
> >> "Pete C." > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> >>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
> >>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
> >>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
> >>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
> >>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
> >>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
> >>> elsewhere.
> >>
> >> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
> >
> > Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
> > them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
> > photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
> > and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
> > little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
>
> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
>
> blake

Good food - Check
Clean streets - Fail
Clean buildings - Fail
Reliable infrastructure - Fail
Elbow room - Fail
Sane traffic - Fail
Reasonable parking - Fail
Friendly people - Fail
Low crime - Fail
Reasonable COL - Fail
CHL - Fail
etc.

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:33:10 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>
> >> Kris wrote:
> >>>
> >>>What do you consider New York must-haves?
> >>
> >> Everything.
> >
> > Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> > festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity.
>
> you should hear what the new yorkers say about you.

"Hey ass hole! Move your ****ing truck!" I expect...

The tolls on the roads to NYC tell it all... free to get in, $$ to get
the hell out.

On Jul 2, 10:12*am, Boron Elgar > wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 21:08:11 -0700 (PDT), Kris >
> wrote:
>
> >We're staying in Midtown East/Murray Hill, but we'll be walking down
> >to Battery Park and up through Central Park. Keeping to Mahattan,
> >though due to the 3-day time limit.
>
> You are staying near the Morgan Library. If you have some time, I
> think you may like it.
>
> http://www.themorgan.org/home.asp

I saw that on the map - I'll have to see if we can fit it in.

Thanks,
Kris

On 7/2/2010 5:30 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:33:10 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Kris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
>>>>
>>>> Everything.
>>>
>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity.
>>
>> you should hear what the new yorkers say about you.
>
> "Hey ass hole! Move your ****ing truck!" I expect...
>
> The tolls on the roads to NYC tell it all... free to get in, $$ to get
> the hell out.

Or not, it totally depends what direction you approach from. All bridges
and tunnels in that and surrounding areas are only tolled in one direction.

On 7/2/2010 5:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>> Don Martinich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In monster.com>,
>>>> "Pete > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
>>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
>>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
>>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
>>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
>>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
>>>
>>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
>>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
>>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
>>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
>>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
>>
>> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
>>
>> blake
>
> Good food - Check
> Clean streets - Fail
> Clean buildings - Fail
> Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> Elbow room - Fail
> Sane traffic - Fail
> Reasonable parking - Fail
> Friendly people - Fail
> Low crime - Fail
> Reasonable COL - Fail
> CHL - Fail
> etc.

Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
difference.

George wrote:
>
> On 7/2/2010 5:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > blake murphy wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
> >>
> >>> Don Martinich wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In monster.com>,
> >>>> "Pete > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> >>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
> >>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
> >>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
> >>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
> >>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
> >>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
> >>>>> elsewhere.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
> >>>
> >>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
> >>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
> >>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
> >>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
> >>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
> >>
> >> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
> >>
> >> blake
> >
> > Good food - Check
> > Clean streets - Fail
> > Clean buildings - Fail
> > Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> > Elbow room - Fail
> > Sane traffic - Fail
> > Reasonable parking - Fail
> > Friendly people - Fail
> > Low crime - Fail
> > Reasonable COL - Fail
> > CHL - Fail
> > etc.
>
> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
> difference.

I haven't been there in about 5 years. I'm pretty sure what I saw on all
my previous visits to NYC over the 34 years I lived in CT couldn't
change significantly in that amount of time, and I know some of those
items haven't changed.

George wrote:
>
> On 7/2/2010 5:30 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > blake murphy wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:33:10 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
> >>
> >>> brooklyn1 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Kris wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
> >>>>
> >>>> Everything.
> >>>
> >>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> >>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity.
> >>
> >> you should hear what the new yorkers say about you.
> >
> > "Hey ass hole! Move your ****ing truck!" I expect...
> >
> > The tolls on the roads to NYC tell it all... free to get in, $$ to get
> > the hell out.
>
> Or not, it totally depends what direction you approach from. All bridges
> and tunnels in that and surrounding areas are only tolled in one direction.

Pretty much all the ones I ever traveled through were tolled in the "get
the hell out of NYC" direction.

On 7/3/2010 9:23 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> George wrote:
>>
>> On 7/2/2010 5:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>> blake murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don Martinich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In monster.com>,
>>>>>> "Pete > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
>>>>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
>>>>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
>>>>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
>>>>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
>>>>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
>>>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
>>>>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
>>>>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
>>>>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
>>>>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
>>>>
>>>> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
>>>>
>>>> blake
>>>
>>> Good food - Check
>>> Clean streets - Fail
>>> Clean buildings - Fail
>>> Reliable infrastructure - Fail
>>> Elbow room - Fail
>>> Sane traffic - Fail
>>> Reasonable parking - Fail
>>> Friendly people - Fail
>>> Low crime - Fail
>>> Reasonable COL - Fail
>>> CHL - Fail
>>> etc.
>>
>> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
>> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
>> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
>> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
>> difference.
>
> I haven't been there in about 5 years. I'm pretty sure what I saw on all
> my previous visits to NYC over the 34 years I lived in CT couldn't
> change significantly in that amount of time, and I know some of those
> items haven't changed.

Clearly you only want to see the worst because you seem to hate cities.
Thats fine but it doesn't make people "pseudo human". As far as parking
etc I never understood why so many people just don't get that cities
such as NYC have great transportation systems and that a car is simply a
liability.

There are very significant changes in recent times. Travel around, you
will see vibrant neighborhoods where parents aren't afraid to bring
their kids, subways don't stink and aren't covered with graffiti and
stations are clean with many recently redone. You can see folks are much
happier and outgoing. I go there a lot and it is quite noticeable.

On 7/3/2010 9:24 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> George wrote:
>>
>> On 7/2/2010 5:30 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>> blake murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:33:10 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kris wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity.
>>>>
>>>> you should hear what the new yorkers say about you.
>>>
>>> "Hey ass hole! Move your ****ing truck!" I expect...
>>>
>>> The tolls on the roads to NYC tell it all... free to get in, $$ to get
>>> the hell out.
>>
>> Or not, it totally depends what direction you approach from. All bridges
>> and tunnels in that and surrounding areas are only tolled in one direction.
>
> Pretty much all the ones I ever traveled through were tolled in the "get
> the hell out of NYC" direction.

Tolls in that greater area (even along the Delaware river crossings down
into Philly) follow the pattern that tolls are only applied when
traveling east bound.

In article >,
Boron Elgar > wrote:
>On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:15:37 -0700 (PDT), Kris >
>wrote:
>
>>On Jul 1, 5:06*pm, Boron Elgar > wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Have a wonderful trip. Wave as you pass suburban NJ.
>>
>>Our "splash out"dinners are the 21 Club (totally old-school NY and
>>Joan Crawford's favorite place)

>I have not been to 21 in years and did not even realize they were
>still around. Wow, what history in that place. Artisanal used to be a
>favorite haunt when I worked in the city. . It was right around the
>block from my office. We had great reseaturants near there...Tabla,
>Mesa Grill (I was surprised that was so good), Les Halles. And do not
>neglect the Shake Shack!
>
>>I agree with lunch at some other "hot" places, like Union Square Cafe.
>>Easier to get into (and afford). We'll try to do one of those
>>alternated between smaller unassuming places.
>>
>>I looked into the Vendy awards to get some direction on good food
>>vendors. Made me really hungry. It's sad when street carts can have
>>better food that some entire cities!
>>
>>And I will wave towards NJ if I can figure out which way it is.

That's easy. It's on the other side of the Hudson.

>Have a great time. See some shows, stroll avenues, if your weather is
>good, splurge on something notoriously overpriced and silly - a double
>Decker tour. Honestly, I've sent friends to do it and they've had a
>blast. It can be fun. Or take a boat ride on the Hudson. Crappy food
>on those boats, so that is a great time to take a Zabar's lunch along.

I took a Greyline double-decker "City Lights" tour and loved it! Mind
you, it was midsummer so I didn't get the full effect of Lincoln Center
after dark when we went by. (My jaw did kind of drop when I did see it.)
I also did the circle line boat tour.

Zabar's is the place for take-out. Fortunately the last couple of times
I've stayed with my friend on the Upper West Side, so I'm close.

The street cart scene was always fine but has really exploded since the
last time I was there.

I'm making notes for the next time I go.

Charlotte
--

On Jul 3, 6:40*am, George > wrote:
> On 7/2/2010 5:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > blake murphy wrote:
>
> >> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> >>> Don Martinich wrote:
>
> >>>> In monster.com>,
> >>>> * "Pete > *wrote:
>
> >>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> >>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
> >>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
> >>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
> >>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
> >>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
> >>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
> >>>>> elsewhere.
>
> >>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
>
> >>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
> >>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
> >>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
> >>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
> >>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
>
> >> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
>
> >> blake
>
> > Good food - Check
> > Clean streets - Fail
> > Clean buildings - Fail
> > Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> > Elbow room - Fail
> > Sane traffic - Fail
> > Reasonable parking - Fail
> > Friendly people - Fail
> > Low crime - Fail
> > Reasonable COL - Fail
> > CHL - Fail
> > etc.
>
> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
> difference.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I do hear that the subway crime is way down, as is crime in most areas
that visitors would go. Heck, the village is practically mainstream
now!

Much better than the late seventies, I would think.

Kris

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:40:24 -0400, George >
wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> >
> > Good food - Check
> > Clean streets - Fail
> > Clean buildings - Fail
> > Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> > Elbow room - Fail
> > Sane traffic - Fail
> > Reasonable parking - Fail
> > Friendly people - Fail
> > Low crime - Fail
> > Reasonable COL - Fail
> > CHL - Fail
> > etc.
>
> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
> difference.

I agree. NYC has been fine for the last 20+ years. The only people
who don't like NYC are those who expect it to mimic their small home
town. Stay away from large cities if you can't take big city life.
You can't act like a hick and not expect to be eaten alive there. You
*will* be taken advantage of or ignored, whichever vibe you put out.

Reasonable parking in NYC? HAHAHA! He should be glad he found *any*
parking. Whatta rube. The cost of living in NYC has always been
high. Did he think it was going to change just because he was in
town?

Don't take small town expectations to the big city and make it the big
city's fault for not being just like home. If you want it to be like
home, stay home. Surely no one goes to Rome, London or Paris and
expects them to be just like home too. Think NYC is dirty? Cairo is
like visiting the city dump. Adjust your attitude before leaving home
or you'll waste your money on travel.

NYC is exhilarating and has a personality of it's own. People stand 6
feet off the curb waiting for the light to turn green. Heck, they
don't wait... they jay walk through traffic even I think is more like
the freeway during rush hour. As far as rude, no they are not. The
sidewalks are crowded and you bump or get bumped. Hang on to your
wallet, because pick pockets bump too.

We can drive in Manhattan but not many out of towners are able to, so
taking a cab or public transportation is the best way to get around.
If you take a cab, know how to get where you're going and be prepared
to get out and walk if traffic is slower than your walking pace. The
cabbie won't cry if you do.

One of my favorite memories of NYC is being in a cab at 1 o'clock in
the morning (contrary to public perception, most NYC is fairly
inactive in the early morning hours). Anyway, we were at a four way
stop and the only other vehicle on the road was a cab to our left.
There we were side by side with the cab and all of a sudden he starts
honking - at nothing. We just burst out laughing. It's not personal.
They honk just to hear the sound of their horns, no other reason.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 10:49:20 -0400, George >
wrote:

> Clearly you only want to see the worst because you seem to hate cities.
> Thats fine but it doesn't make people "pseudo human". As far as parking
> etc I never understood why so many people just don't get that cities
> such as NYC have great transportation systems and that a car is simply a
> liability.
>
> There are very significant changes in recent times. Travel around, you
> will see vibrant neighborhoods where parents aren't afraid to bring
> their kids, subways don't stink and aren't covered with graffiti and
> stations are clean with many recently redone. You can see folks are much
> happier and outgoing. I go there a lot and it is quite noticeable.

Some people shouldn't ever leave home. He's one of them.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

"George" > wrote
>
> Tolls in that greater area (even along the Delaware river crossings down
> into Philly) follow the pattern that tolls are only applied when traveling
> east bound.

NY areas bridges yes, but you pay to get into Philly going west.

Ben Franklin Bridge, Betsy Ross Bridge.
A $4.00 one-way toll is charged entering Pennsylvania for passenger vehicles
(less than 7,000 lb (3,200 kg) gross vehicle weight).

I guess that mans people are willing to pay to get our of New Jersey

George wrote:
>
> On 7/3/2010 9:23 AM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > George wrote:
> >>
> >> On 7/2/2010 5:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
> >>>
> >>> blake murphy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Don Martinich wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In monster.com>,
> >>>>>> "Pete > wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> >>>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
> >>>>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
> >>>>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
> >>>>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
> >>>>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
> >>>>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
> >>>>>>> elsewhere.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
> >>>>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
> >>>>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
> >>>>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
> >>>>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
> >>>>
> >>>> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
> >>>>
> >>>> blake
> >>>
> >>> Good food - Check
> >>> Clean streets - Fail
> >>> Clean buildings - Fail
> >>> Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> >>> Elbow room - Fail
> >>> Sane traffic - Fail
> >>> Reasonable parking - Fail
> >>> Friendly people - Fail
> >>> Low crime - Fail
> >>> Reasonable COL - Fail
> >>> CHL - Fail
> >>> etc.
> >>
> >> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
> >> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
> >> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
> >> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
> >> difference.
> >
> > I haven't been there in about 5 years. I'm pretty sure what I saw on all
> > my previous visits to NYC over the 34 years I lived in CT couldn't
> > change significantly in that amount of time, and I know some of those
> > items haven't changed.
>
> Clearly you only want to see the worst because you seem to hate cities.
> Thats fine but it doesn't make people "pseudo human". As far as parking
> etc I never understood why so many people just don't get that cities
> such as NYC have great transportation systems and that a car is simply a
> liability.

It's not a function of wanting to see the worst, it's a function of not
being blinded to it as the people who have lived in such cities all
their lives are. I have been to many cities, and not all are dung heaps
like NYC is. The most obvious examples of non-dung heap cities are
Montreal and Toronto. Chicago isn't too bad, though it's not up to the
standards of Montreal or Toronto.

As for transportation, NYC public transit doesn't hold a candle to
Montreal public transit. Either way, for those of us who do larger
things and need to actually transport more than a shopping bag, public
transit is simply not viable. How often do you see a plumber or
electrician on the subway carrying a tool bag and a bundle of pipe or
conduit? For those who are content to do little for themselves and be
reliant on the trades that they like to look down on for everything a
vehicle may not be important, but for us self reliant types a vehicle is
required.

>
> There are very significant changes in recent times. Travel around, you
> will see vibrant neighborhoods where parents aren't afraid to bring
> their kids, subways don't stink and aren't covered with graffiti and
> stations are clean with many recently redone. You can see folks are much
> happier and outgoing. I go there a lot and it is quite noticeable.

If it's been within the last 5 years, I have indeed not seen it. If it
is as you say, it is indeed progress. Either way, there are still a
number of items on my list that I know have not changed yet and I
consider those items essential.

sf wrote:
>
> On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 10:49:20 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
> > Clearly you only want to see the worst because you seem to hate cities.
> > Thats fine but it doesn't make people "pseudo human". As far as parking
> > etc I never understood why so many people just don't get that cities
> > such as NYC have great transportation systems and that a car is simply a
> > liability.
> >
> > There are very significant changes in recent times. Travel around, you
> > will see vibrant neighborhoods where parents aren't afraid to bring
> > their kids, subways don't stink and aren't covered with graffiti and
> > stations are clean with many recently redone. You can see folks are much
> > happier and outgoing. I go there a lot and it is quite noticeable.
>
> Some people shouldn't ever leave home. He's one of them.

Funny you should say that, since you are the one who seems content to
never leave your little city enclave. Indeed in previous posts you've
indicated you are uncomfortable in an open country environment.

As for "leaving home", I'm the one that all my city and tight suburb
development living friends relay on when they need stuff done. Those
friends also come out to my shop to work on projects they can't at home
due to lack of "elbow room".

sf wrote:
>
> On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:40:24 -0400, George >
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Good food - Check
> > > Clean streets - Fail
> > > Clean buildings - Fail
> > > Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> > > Elbow room - Fail
> > > Sane traffic - Fail
> > > Reasonable parking - Fail
> > > Friendly people - Fail
> > > Low crime - Fail
> > > Reasonable COL - Fail
> > > CHL - Fail
> > > etc.
> >
> > Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
> > liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
> > feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
> > had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
> > difference.
>
> I agree. NYC has been fine for the last 20+ years. The only people
> who don't like NYC are those who expect it to mimic their small home
> town. Stay away from large cities if you can't take big city life.
> You can't act like a hick and not expect to be eaten alive there. You
> *will* be taken advantage of or ignored, whichever vibe you put out.

I've definitely been to NYC a number of times in the last 20 years, and
it has *not* been fine. It's not a function of expecting a big city to
be like my small home town, it's a function of expecting a city to not
be a dung heap, something NYC fails miserably at, while big cities like
Montreal and Toronto excel at.

>
> Reasonable parking in NYC? HAHAHA! He should be glad he found *any*
> parking. Whatta rube. The cost of living in NYC has always been
> high. Did he think it was going to change just because he was in
> town?

Reasonable parking makes a city workable for all people, not just those
who fit the city dweller mentality. If you can live your life with
public transit not transporting more than a few shopping bags yourself,
and relying on others to transport larger things for you that is great,
but realize that those who transport the larger stuff for you need to be
able to park their vehicles. Again, large cities such as Montreal and
Toronto get this right. The last time I was in Montreal, I was able to
park my large truck which takes up a space and a half in the middle of
downtown Montreal for $5 CDN for the day and hop on their spotless
subway a block away for $2 CDN.

>
> Don't take small town expectations to the big city and make it the big
> city's fault for not being just like home. If you want it to be like
> home, stay home. Surely no one goes to Rome, London or Paris and
> expects them to be just like home too.

Nope, I don't expect small town, I do expect clean, orderly and
civilized, and big cities like Montreal and Toronto meet that
expectation, while NYC falls flat.

> Think NYC is dirty? Cairo is
> like visiting the city dump. Adjust your attitude before leaving home
> or you'll waste your money on travel.

I've been to Cairo, and it does indeed make NYC look good, however NYC
should not be judged against third world standards, it should be judged
against first world standards and by those standards it fails.

>
> NYC is exhilarating and has a personality of it's own. People stand 6
> feet off the curb waiting for the light to turn green. Heck, they
> don't wait... they jay walk through traffic even I think is more like
> the freeway during rush hour.

Yes, and this again mirrors the behavior in a third world city like
Cairo, not a first world one like Montreal.

> As far as rude, no they are not. The
> sidewalks are crowded and you bump or get bumped. Hang on to your
> wallet, because pick pockets bump too.

Yes, they are indeed rude. I've been to NYC enough times and to Montreal
enough times to fully confirm this.

>
> We can drive in Manhattan but not many out of towners are able to, so
> taking a cab or public transportation is the best way to get around.
> If you take a cab, know how to get where you're going and be prepared
> to get out and walk if traffic is slower than your walking pace. The
> cabbie won't cry if you do.

I've driven in Manhattan a number of times and while exhilarating, it is
not enjoyable. Most of the times I went to NYC I took the bus and let
the bus driver deal with the ass holes on the road who can't follow
traffic laws.

>
> One of my favorite memories of NYC is being in a cab at 1 o'clock in
> the morning (contrary to public perception, most NYC is fairly
> inactive in the early morning hours).

Yes, indeed it is, in large part due to safety issues. Little activity
beyond garbage trucks and futile street sweeping at those hours.

> Anyway, we were at a four way
> stop and the only other vehicle on the road was a cab to our left.
> There we were side by side with the cab and all of a sudden he starts
> honking - at nothing. We just burst out laughing. It's not personal.
> They honk just to hear the sound of their horns, no other reason.

Just what I want to hear when trying to sleep at 1 am, garbage trucks,
street sweepers, loony cabbies honking horns, and the ever present
mentally ill homeless person shouting incoherently. I'll take my quiet
country setting with some chirping crickets and peeping frogs any day.

PS: I reference Montreal a lot since it used to be a regular vacation
destination for me when I lived in CT (5.5hr drive from CT) and it's
clearly a model of what a civilized city should be like.

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:39:27 -0400, George wrote:

> On 7/2/2010 5:30 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:33:10 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Kris wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything.
>>>>
>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity.
>>>
>>> you should hear what the new yorkers say about you.
>>
>> "Hey ass hole! Move your ****ing truck!" I expect...
>>
>> The tolls on the roads to NYC tell it all... free to get in, $$ to get
>> the hell out.
>
> Or not, it totally depends what direction you approach from. All bridges
> and tunnels in that and surrounding areas are only tolled in one direction.

you can't expect pete to be up on them big-city ways.

wasn't he the one who said something like you can see the only worthwhile
parts of new york in one morning?

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 08:24:56 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> George wrote:
>>
>> On 7/2/2010 5:30 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>> blake murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:33:10 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kris wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you consider New York must-haves?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity.
>>>>
>>>> you should hear what the new yorkers say about you.
>>>
>>> "Hey ass hole! Move your ****ing truck!" I expect...
>>>
>>> The tolls on the roads to NYC tell it all... free to get in, $$ to get
>>> the hell out.
>>
>> Or not, it totally depends what direction you approach from. All bridges
>> and tunnels in that and surrounding areas are only tolled in one direction.
>
> Pretty much all the ones I ever traveled through were tolled in the "get
> the hell out of NYC" direction.

frankly, i'm surprised the new yorkers didn't pay *you* to leave.

blake

On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 16:28:31 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>> Don Martinich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In article .com>,
>>>> "Pete C." > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
>>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
>>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
>>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
>>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
>>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
>>>
>>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
>>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
>>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
>>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
>>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
>>
>> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
>>
>> blake
>
> Good food - Check
> Clean streets - Fail
> Clean buildings - Fail
> Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> Elbow room - Fail
> Sane traffic - Fail
> Reasonable parking - Fail
> Friendly people - Fail
> Low crime - Fail
> Reasonable COL - Fail
> CHL - Fail
> etc.

yep, he's the one.

blake

On 7/3/2010 12:08 PM, Pete C. wrote:

> I've definitely been to NYC a number of times in the last 20 years, and
> it has *not* been fine. It's not a function of expecting a big city to
> be like my small home town, it's a function of expecting a city to not
> be a dung heap, something NYC fails miserably at, while big cities like
> Montreal and Toronto excel at.


So that leads me to ask... if you hate New York so much, why do you go
there?

George L

George Leppla wrote:
>
> On 7/3/2010 12:08 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > I've definitely been to NYC a number of times in the last 20 years, and
> > it has *not* been fine. It's not a function of expecting a big city to
> > be like my small home town, it's a function of expecting a city to not
> > be a dung heap, something NYC fails miserably at, while big cities like
> > Montreal and Toronto excel at.
>
> So that leads me to ask... if you hate New York so much, why do you go
> there?

Four reasons - events at the Javits Center, a photo shoot at the
Intrepid, a video shoot in Brooklyn and helping a friend's brother move
to Brooklyn. Otherwise I would not have gone there.

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 12:48:16 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote:

> On 7/3/2010 12:08 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > I've definitely been to NYC a number of times in the last 20 years, and
> > it has *not* been fine. It's not a function of expecting a big city to
> > be like my small home town, it's a function of expecting a city to not
> > be a dung heap, something NYC fails miserably at, while big cities like
> > Montreal and Toronto excel at.
>
>
> So that leads me to ask... if you hate New York so much, why do you go
> there?
>
I haven't been to Toronto in a long time, too long to make a decent
comparison... but I have been to Montreal lately. He has no clue.
You love them for what they are and won't try to make one into the
other.


--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On 7/3/2010 1:32 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> George Leppla wrote:
>>
>> On 7/3/2010 12:08 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>> I've definitely been to NYC a number of times in the last 20 years, and
>>> it has *not* been fine. It's not a function of expecting a big city to
>>> be like my small home town, it's a function of expecting a city to not
>>> be a dung heap, something NYC fails miserably at, while big cities like
>>> Montreal and Toronto excel at.
>>
>> So that leads me to ask... if you hate New York so much, why do you go
>> there?
>
> Four reasons - events at the Javits Center, a photo shoot at the
> Intrepid, a video shoot in Brooklyn and helping a friend's brother move
> to Brooklyn. Otherwise I would not have gone there.

I'll make a suggestion... the next time you travel anywhere... look for
the good. Don't expecting things to be like they are at home and don't
compare one place to another. Find the best in where you are and enjoy
it rather than wasting time thinking about how things are someplace else.

To say a city the size of NY is a "dung heap" and insult the people who
live there tells everyone a lot more about you and your attitude than it
will ever tell them about NY.

George L

On 7/3/2010 1:08 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> sf wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:40:24 -0400, >
>> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Good food - Check
>>>> Clean streets - Fail
>>>> Clean buildings - Fail
>>>> Reliable infrastructure - Fail
>>>> Elbow room - Fail
>>>> Sane traffic - Fail
>>>> Reasonable parking - Fail
>>>> Friendly people - Fail
>>>> Low crime - Fail
>>>> Reasonable COL - Fail
>>>> CHL - Fail
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
>>> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
>>> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
>>> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
>>> difference.
>>
>> I agree. NYC has been fine for the last 20+ years. The only people
>> who don't like NYC are those who expect it to mimic their small home
>> town. Stay away from large cities if you can't take big city life.
>> You can't act like a hick and not expect to be eaten alive there. You
>> *will* be taken advantage of or ignored, whichever vibe you put out.
>
> I've definitely been to NYC a number of times in the last 20 years, and
> it has *not* been fine. It's not a function of expecting a big city to
> be like my small home town, it's a function of expecting a city to not
> be a dung heap, something NYC fails miserably at, while big cities like
> Montreal and Toronto excel at.
>

As I said before it is a function of you simply hating NYC. If you hate
something you can always find something to validate your hate.


>>
>> Reasonable parking in NYC? HAHAHA! He should be glad he found *any*
>> parking. Whatta rube. The cost of living in NYC has always been
>> high. Did he think it was going to change just because he was in
>> town?
>
> Reasonable parking makes a city workable for all people, not just those
> who fit the city dweller mentality. If you can live your life with
> public transit not transporting more than a few shopping bags yourself,
> and relying on others to transport larger things for you that is great,
> but realize that those who transport the larger stuff for you need to be
> able to park their vehicles. Again, large cities such as Montreal and
> Toronto get this right. The last time I was in Montreal, I was able to
> park my large truck which takes up a space and a half in the middle of
> downtown Montreal for $5 CDN for the day and hop on their spotless
> subway a block away for $2 CDN.
>

Lots of folks do really well with normal cars. Using your thinking
everyone should drive around in a huge vehicle that takes two parking
spaces for the few times they would need to use it instead of simply
paying a few bucks to have an item delivered.



>>
>> Don't take small town expectations to the big city and make it the big
>> city's fault for not being just like home. If you want it to be like
>> home, stay home. Surely no one goes to Rome, London or Paris and
>> expects them to be just like home too.
>
> Nope, I don't expect small town, I do expect clean, orderly and
> civilized, and big cities like Montreal and Toronto meet that
> expectation, while NYC falls flat.
>
>> Think NYC is dirty? Cairo is
>> like visiting the city dump. Adjust your attitude before leaving home
>> or you'll waste your money on travel.
>
> I've been to Cairo, and it does indeed make NYC look good, however NYC
> should not be judged against third world standards, it should be judged
> against first world standards and by those standards it fails.
>
>>
>> NYC is exhilarating and has a personality of it's own. People stand 6
>> feet off the curb waiting for the light to turn green. Heck, they
>> don't wait... they jay walk through traffic even I think is more like
>> the freeway during rush hour.
>
> Yes, and this again mirrors the behavior in a third world city like
> Cairo, not a first world one like Montreal.
>
>> As far as rude, no they are not. The
>> sidewalks are crowded and you bump or get bumped. Hang on to your
>> wallet, because pick pockets bump too.
>
> Yes, they are indeed rude. I've been to NYC enough times and to Montreal
> enough times to fully confirm this.
>

Have to wonder if it isn't something you are doing. You obviously hate
the place and I am sure that comes through loud and clear when dealing
with others.

>>
>> We can drive in Manhattan but not many out of towners are able to, so
>> taking a cab or public transportation is the best way to get around.
>> If you take a cab, know how to get where you're going and be prepared
>> to get out and walk if traffic is slower than your walking pace. The
>> cabbie won't cry if you do.
>
> I've driven in Manhattan a number of times and while exhilarating, it is
> not enjoyable. Most of the times I went to NYC I took the bus and let
> the bus driver deal with the ass holes on the road who can't follow
> traffic laws.
>
>>
>> One of my favorite memories of NYC is being in a cab at 1 o'clock in
>> the morning (contrary to public perception, most NYC is fairly
>> inactive in the early morning hours).
>
> Yes, indeed it is, in large part due to safety issues. Little activity
> beyond garbage trucks and futile street sweeping at those hours.
>
>> Anyway, we were at a four way
>> stop and the only other vehicle on the road was a cab to our left.
>> There we were side by side with the cab and all of a sudden he starts
>> honking - at nothing. We just burst out laughing. It's not personal.
>> They honk just to hear the sound of their horns, no other reason.
>
> Just what I want to hear when trying to sleep at 1 am, garbage trucks,
> street sweepers, loony cabbies honking horns, and the ever present
> mentally ill homeless person shouting incoherently. I'll take my quiet
> country setting with some chirping crickets and peeping frogs any day.
>
> PS: I reference Montreal a lot since it used to be a regular vacation
> destination for me when I lived in CT (5.5hr drive from CT) and it's
> clearly a model of what a civilized city should be like.

On 7/3/2010 12:07 PM, Kris wrote:
> On Jul 3, 6:40 am, > wrote:
>> On 7/2/2010 5:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>>>> Don Martinich wrote:
>>
>>>>>> In monster.com>,
>>>>>> "Pete > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
>>>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
>>>>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
>>>>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
>>>>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
>>>>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
>>>>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
>>>>>>> elsewhere.
>>
>>>>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
>>
>>>>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
>>>>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
>>>>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
>>>>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
>>>>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
>>
>>>> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
>>
>>>> blake
>>
>>> Good food - Check
>>> Clean streets - Fail
>>> Clean buildings - Fail
>>> Reliable infrastructure - Fail
>>> Elbow room - Fail
>>> Sane traffic - Fail
>>> Reasonable parking - Fail
>>> Friendly people - Fail
>>> Low crime - Fail
>>> Reasonable COL - Fail
>>> CHL - Fail
>>> etc.
>>
>> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
>> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
>> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
>> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
>> difference.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I do hear that the subway crime is way down, as is crime in most areas
> that visitors would go. Heck, the village is practically mainstream
> now!

Major difference, wasn't that long ago when every car was dirty and
covered with graffiti (both the outside and from riff-raff scratching
stuff on the glass). People had enough of being nice to and trying not
to hurt the feelings of riff-raff and they really cleaned them out. Now
the the cars are clean and well maintained, many stations have been
re-tiled and repainted and they even vacuum the tracks.

If you want to see the closest thing to what the village used to be go
over to St Marks Place in the evening.


>
> Much better than the late seventies, I would think.

Yes, we were out there maybe a month ago enjoying a drink @ 1 AM in the
pavilion in Gramercy Park that is sponsored by Southwest Airlines.
Gramercy Park is impeccability maintained which people now respect.

There is no way you would ever think of being in a park at night not so
long ago.

>
> Kris

On Jul 3, 3:29*pm, George > wrote:
> On 7/3/2010 12:07 PM, Kris wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 3, 6:40 am, > *wrote:
> >> On 7/2/2010 5:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> >>> blake murphy wrote:
>
> >>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> >>>>> Don Martinich wrote:
>
> >>>>>> In monster.com>,
> >>>>>> * *"Pete > * *wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Let me preface this by saying that I hate NYC and think overall it is a
> >>>>>>> festering dumpster of pseudo-humanity. Beyond that however, if you have
> >>>>>>> to go there for some reason, there is indeed very good food pretty much
> >>>>>>> everywhere if you avoid any sort of national chain place. I've had great
> >>>>>>> pizza from a hole in the wall place across the street from B&H Photo, a
> >>>>>>> great Ethiopian dinner at Queen of Sheeba Ethiopian Restaurant somewhere
> >>>>>>> on the way back to the bus station, and various other great food
> >>>>>>> elsewhere.
>
> >>>>>> I hope you waved hello to all my money when you walked by B&H Photo. ;=}
>
> >>>>> Actually, B&H was the target, to visit their store after dealing with
> >>>>> them for years on the phone and online, and to pickup some film for the
> >>>>> photo shoot that brought us to NYC. After taking the bus down from CT
> >>>>> and hiking over to do our thing at B&H it was about lunch time and the
> >>>>> little hole in the wall across the street had really good pizza.
>
> >>>> not bad for pseudo-humans, huh?
>
> >>>> blake
>
> >>> Good food - Check
> >>> Clean streets - Fail
> >>> Clean buildings - Fail
> >>> Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> >>> Elbow room - Fail
> >>> Sane traffic - Fail
> >>> Reasonable parking - Fail
> >>> Friendly people - Fail
> >>> Low crime - Fail
> >>> Reasonable COL - Fail
> >>> CHL - Fail
> >>> etc.
>
> >> Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
> >> liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
> >> feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
> >> had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
> >> difference.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I do hear that the subway crime is way down, as is crime in most areas
> > that visitors would go. Heck, the village is practically mainstream
> > now!
>
> Major difference, wasn't that long ago when every car was dirty and
> covered with graffiti (both the outside and from riff-raff scratching
> stuff on the glass). People had enough of being nice to and trying not
> to hurt the feelings of riff-raff and they really cleaned them out. *Now
> the the cars are clean and well maintained, many stations have been
> re-tiled and repainted and they even vacuum the tracks.
>
> If you want to see the closest thing to what the village used to be go
> over to St Marks Place in the evening.
>
>
>
> > Much better than the late seventies, I would think.
>
> Yes, we were out there maybe a month ago enjoying a drink @ 1 AM in the
> pavilion in Gramercy Park that is sponsored by Southwest Airlines.
> Gramercy Park is impeccability maintained which people now respect.
>
> There is no way you would ever think of being in a park at night not so
> long ago.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Kris- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Will definitely keep St. Marks on the radar!

Thanks again,
Kris

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 15:29:37 -0400, George >
wrote:

> Yes, we were out there maybe a month ago enjoying a drink @ 1 AM in the
> pavilion in Gramercy Park that is sponsored by Southwest Airlines.
> Gramercy Park is impeccability maintained which people now respect.
>
> There is no way you would ever think of being in a park at night not so
> long ago.

You're totally confusing me now. I know Gramercy Park quite well.
You're talking about Gramercy Park, the one that's located between The
National Arts Club and the Gramercy Park Hotel, the one you need a
gate key to get into? Of course it's impeccable, it's fenced and IT'S
PRIVATE. I am not aware of a Southwest Airlines pavilion in Gramercy
Park, not can I imagine where's there would be enough room to put it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramercy_Park

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.