Hi,

I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
post, so please excuse me if it is not.

My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
ingredients.

TIA,
Peter

On 07/04/2010 11:34 AM, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
> post, so please excuse me if it is not.
>
> My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
> considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
> love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
> though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
> will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
> trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
> restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
> ingredients.

Just do a great job cooking, and take some classes if you have the
desire. Classes might help you become more proficient at the basics,
etc., but lots of chefs became successful without cooking school.

Serene

On Jul 4, 2:34*pm, Peter > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
> post, so please excuse me if it is not.
>
> My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
> considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
> love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
> though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
> will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
> trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
> restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
> ingredients.
>
> TIA,
> Peter

So go and cook. Look at the menu, talk to him about what's expected
and do your thing. Be prepared to bust your ****ing ass though. If
you're not working 'hot' then either the manager has too much staff on
hand, or it's not busy enough. If you want to work a high end hotel
later on, you should get some paper work; a cook's diploma/trade
certificate etc. High end hotel work is where it's at. As far as I'm
concerned that's the show. Restaurant work even at such high end
places as 'The Fat Duck' is nowhere's ville. When I was an apprentice
at a high end Toronto Hotel, the chef put me (and every other
apprentice) in the coffee shop first. He separated wheat from chaff.
The chaff blew and the wheat remained. The coffee shop was pure
hell. Brutal. But I liked it. When I got onto banquets (lunch time
small banquets) it was just as crazy. Two guys putting out banquets,
6 banquets and more at lunch. All different. All having to go out at
roughly the same time. And not much time to get everything prepped.
However it was somewhat prestigeous. I'm a machinist now, for the
money. I went for the money, but cooking was a much more satisfying
trade.

On Jul 4, 2:46*pm, A Moose In Love > wrote:
> On Jul 4, 2:34*pm, Peter > wrote:
>
>
>

> > My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to

>
> So go and cook. *Look at the menu, talk to him about what's expected
> and do your thing. *Be prepared to bust

All valid thoughts Moose...but you forgot to add you might need to be
in the kitchen at 4AM on a regular basis...forget weekends/holiday/
vacation.......your personal life will be out the window.

Serene wrote on Sun, 04 Jul 2010 11:42:28 -0700:

> On 07/04/2010 11:34 AM, Peter wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I
>> should post, so please excuse me if it is not.
>>
>> My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking
>> school" to become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question
>> because I am considering making a career change. I am a
>> middle age mathematician and I have the opportunity to cook
>> at a small establishment a friend of mine is opening. I am a good
>> cook, very passionate about food, and love to cook. He
>> knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road though, I would
>> like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone will hire me
>> without a proper degree? I don't have any
>> pretensions of trying to become a great chef or of being at a
>> fancy French restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food
>> well using fresh ingredients.

> Just do a great job cooking, and take some classes if you have
> the desire. Classes might help you become more proficient at the
> basics, etc., but lots of chefs became successful without cooking
> school.


Did Patrick O'Donnel ("Inn at Little Washington"), Heston Blumenthal
("Fat Duck"), Ferren Adria ( "ElBulli") and Thomas Keller ( "French
Laundry") go to cooking school? It's true that Keller was an apprentice
in France.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jul 4, 2:51*pm, "Mr. Bill" > wrote:
> On Jul 4, 2:46*pm, A Moose In Love > wrote:
>
> > On Jul 4, 2:34*pm, Peter > wrote:
>
> > > My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
>
> > So go and cook. *Look at the menu, talk to him about what's expected
> > and do your thing. *Be prepared to bust
>
> All valid thoughts Moose...but you forgot to add you might need to be
> in the kitchen at 4AM on a regular basis...forget weekends/holiday/
> vacation.......your personal life will be out the window.

True. Much of the personal life comes from hanging around with other
cooks who work just as crazy hours. Also other trades/professions:
Nursing.
Also I had a job (machinist) where I worked 4:00AM to 4:00PM 5 days a
week. No weekends though. I think the guys on nights had it
rougher.

Hi,

I want to really thank everyone who responded. Basically, you
reaffirmed what I thought, which to me is great news!
I know that even in a discipline like mathematics, the bottom line is
that if you can do the job, have some demonstrable talent, and can get
results, you can get hired without much in the way of "academic
credentials". It's not easy, but it can definitely be done if one
wants to.

I do expect it to be very hard and demanding, but all I know is that I
want to do it. I love every aspect of food and what I don't know, I
want to learn. I am used to working long hours and strange schedules,
and I am in pretty good physical shape, so I don't see these aspects
of the job being roadblocks for me. The only thing of which I am not
too sure is my sense of taste: I *think* it is good, but when I hear
people like Gordon Ramsey say he can taste 15 different flavors in one
dish, my head kinda spins. I know my sense of taste will never be that
keen.

I am very fortunate as I am close by to a pretty good cooking school
(Midwest Culinary Institute) where I can take some classes to make
sure I am competent in the basics at a very reasonable cost. I plan to
visit some kitchens of some local restaurants and ask if I can also
observe to make sure that I have a realistic perception of what it is
like, if I can do it, and what would be required of me. I am also very
fortunate in that I can take a year's leave of absence from my job, so
if cooking as a profession isn't my dish, so to speak,, I can go back
to the exciting world of math. ;>)

Thank you once again for the responses!

Peter

On 2010-07-04, Peter > wrote:

> My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> become a cook in a restaurant.

There's are as many paths to cooking success as there are food dishes.
Start as a burger flipper when young, pay $30-50K for school,
apprentice for slave wages for years, buy a restaurant and sink or
swim, etc. Your options are endless. I think dedication and passion will
determine where you end up.

Is school necessary? I recall Anthony Bourdain doing an episode on
his former sous chef and now head chef of Brasserie Les Halles in NY
(Anthony's previous postition), a poor Mexican immigrant who came to
New York to become a cook. I think Anthony said he went from nobody
to head chef in 8 yrs! I don't remember any schools in the mix, jes
Anthony telling how his co-worker worked his freakin' ass off.

nb

On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Peter >
wrote:

> I am very fortunate as I am close by to a pretty good cooking school
> (Midwest Culinary Institute) where I can take some classes to make
> sure I am competent in the basics at a very reasonable cost. I plan to
> visit some kitchens of some local restaurants and ask if I can also
> observe to make sure that I have a realistic perception of what it is
> like, if I can do it, and what would be required of me. I am also very
> fortunate in that I can take a year's leave of absence from my job, so
> if cooking as a profession isn't my dish, so to speak,, I can go back
> to the exciting world of math. ;>)
>
> Thank you once again for the responses!

Good luck to you!

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

Peter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
> post, so please excuse me if it is not.
>
> My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
> considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> of mine is opening.

Someone wiser than me once said that your schooling makes a difference
to where you get your first job, but your first job is what matters to
where you get your second.

-S-

Janet Baraclough wrote:
>
> The message >
> from Sqwertz > contains these words:
>
> > Experience and success is worth more than a culinary education.
> > What you have to be concerned about are the chances are that this
> > initial restaurant is going to succeed. Most don't.
>
> Usually, because commercially inexperienced people underestimate the
> high degree of professional skill it takes.

I'd guess it's because many restaurants are started
by people who know they can cook well, but don't
realize they don't know how to run a business.

On 2010-07-04, Janet Baraclough > wrote:

> Usually, because commercially inexperienced people underestimate the
> high degree of professional skill it takes.

This has manifested itself in the fact that there are now so many
culinary schools, there is a surplus and graduates go a'begging. This
means existing kitchens and chefs need not accept rank beginners,
regardless of how cheap they are willing to work for. Many chefs will
not accept a newhires unless they HAVE had some culinary schooling.

I worked with a "cook" that had several years experience and was
already working part time for a celebrity chef (an Iron Chef USA
contestant) in said chef's restaurant. That chef advised this young
man go to culinary school, recommending his old alma mater
(Johnson&Wales, Denver). The cook went, claiming he'd never break out
of the cook ranks until he did.

nb

Peter wrote:

> I am very fortunate as I am close by to a pretty good cooking school
> (Midwest Culinary Institute) where I can take some classes to make
> sure I am competent in the basics at a very reasonable cost.

That's great. One thing I've noticed is that cooking school is
crazy expensive, then when you graduate, the pay doesn't pay
you back all that tuition money.

Best of luck in your venture. Or adventure. Sounds cool. This
is one field where results mean more than degrees.

nancy

Nancy Young > wrote:

>That's great. One thing I've noticed is that cooking school is
>crazy expensive, then when you graduate, the pay doesn't pay
>you back all that tuition money.

Working chefs have to compete against vanity artists whose money
comes from somewhere else and who can afford the expensive schools
and low-paid positions. Trust fund babies in many cases.


S.

On 2010-07-04, Nancy Young > wrote:

> That's great. One thing I've noticed is that cooking school is
> crazy expensive, then when you graduate, the pay doesn't pay
> you back all that tuition money.

That's why it's best to attend a culinary program at a community
college or other state school. There are many.

nb

Peter wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
> post, so please excuse me if it is not.
>
> My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
> considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
> love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
> though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
> will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
> trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
> restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
> ingredients.
>
> TIA,
> Peter


You need training and experience. Doesn't need to come from cooking
school as such. Won't hurt to take classes, particulary in food
hygiene/handling.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
>
> The message >
> from Serene Vannoy > contains these words:
>
> > On 07/04/2010 11:34 AM, Peter wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
> > > post, so please excuse me if it is not.
> > >
> > > My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> > > become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
> > > considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> > > and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> > > of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
> > > love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
> > > though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
> > > will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
> > > trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
> > > restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
> > > ingredients.
>
> > Just do a great job cooking, and take some classes if you have the
> > desire. Classes might help you become more proficient at the basics,
> > etc., but lots of chefs became successful without cooking school.
>
> True, but they usually did it by starting at the bottom and working
> their way up. Few start at the top.
>
> There is a gigantic difference, between being able to cook well on
> the domestic front for people you know, and being able to organise and
> manage a commercial kitchen team
> which supplies dozens of dishes to order, simultaneously. ( devise
> menus, organise suppliers, order and store the ingredients, balance the
> books, *and* manage a complex team of workers
> in a high pressure environment while keeping ahead of commercial food
> hygiene legislation). Cooking, is only a small part of a chef's
> responsibility.
>
>
> Janet

Some of those responsibilites can be taken over by the restaurant
manager as such. In a large establishment, the chef wouldn't necessarily
be the accountant or even order the basic supplies. Not every chef has
time to go round the farmer's markets every day and do all the shopping



>

In article
>,
Peter > wrote:


> My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> become a cook in a restaurant.

And I have a simple answer. No.

> I ask this question because I am
> considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
> love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
> though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
> will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
> trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
> restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
> ingredients.

Many people find that a career in cooking is not for them. The pay is
crappy, the benefits are often non-existent, the work is hard and the
hours are unbelievably long. Other people just love it. It looks like
you have the perfect opportunity to give it a try and see how it fits
you.

If you find later that you need to take some classes, you could do that.
Maybe you won't need to. Or maybe you will decide that it isn't for you.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Dan Abel" > wrote
>
> Many people find that a career in cooking is not for them. The pay is
> crappy, the benefits are often non-existent, the work is hard and the
> hours are unbelievably long. Other people just love it. It looks like
> you have the perfect opportunity to give it a try and see how it fits
> you.
>
> If you find later that you need to take some classes, you could do that.
> Maybe you won't need to. Or maybe you will decide that it isn't for you.

I've heard it many times, "you should open a restaurant" Hell NO. I enjoy
cooking, I'm pretty good at it from what others tell me, but I certainly
don't want to own or work in a restaurant. Cooking would cease to be fun.
I like weekends off. I like getting home from work about 4:30. I like
being able to cook what I want and when I want, not on demand.

Dan Abel wrote:
>
> Many people find that a career in cooking is not for them. The pay is
> crappy, the benefits are often non-existent, the work is hard and the
> hours are unbelievably long. Other people just love it. It looks like
> you have the perfect opportunity to give it a try and see how it fits
> you.


One of my nephews is a chef. I was surprised to find out how bad the
pay was, considering that he had spent a few years in college. However,
he has moved around a bit and worked his way up. He is now executive
chef in a restaurant. Apparently he has some issues, but it should be
easier for him to move on because he now has executive chef experience.

On Jul 5, 1:15*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *Peter > wrote:
> > My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> > become a cook in a restaurant.
>
> And I have a simple answer. *No.
>
> > I ask this question because I am
> > considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> > and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> > of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
> > love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
> > though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
> > will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
> > trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
> > restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
> > ingredients.
>
> Many people find that a career in cooking is not for them. *The pay is
> crappy, the benefits are often non-existent, the work is hard and the
> hours are unbelievably long. *Other people just love it. *It looks like
> you have the perfect opportunity to give it a try and see how it fits
> you. *
>

If you want to work an 8 hour a day job with some weekends with
benefits, you need to become an institutional cook. Although much of
that has changed. Now many institutions are using lower level cooks
who basically just open up a frozen package and heat and serve. Many
hospitals are now doing this. Frozen already cooked ham, roast beef,
soups etc. Automation. And besides, where is the prestige in
institutional cooking?


> If you find later that you need to take some classes, you could do that. *
> Maybe you won't need to. *Or maybe you will decide that it isn't for you.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
>

On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 19:41:09 -0600, Arri London >
wrote:

>
>
>Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>
>> The message >
>> from Serene Vannoy > contains these words:
>>
>> > On 07/04/2010 11:34 AM, Peter wrote:
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
>> > > post, so please excuse me if it is not.
>> > >
>> > > My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
>> > > become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
>> > > considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
>> > > and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
>> > > of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
>> > > love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
>> > > though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
>> > > will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
>> > > trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
>> > > restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
>> > > ingredients.
>>
>> > Just do a great job cooking, and take some classes if you have the
>> > desire. Classes might help you become more proficient at the basics,
>> > etc., but lots of chefs became successful without cooking school.
>>
>> True, but they usually did it by starting at the bottom and working
>> their way up. Few start at the top.
>>
>> There is a gigantic difference, between being able to cook well on
>> the domestic front for people you know, and being able to organise and
>> manage a commercial kitchen team
>> which supplies dozens of dishes to order, simultaneously. ( devise
>> menus, organise suppliers, order and store the ingredients, balance the
>> books, *and* manage a complex team of workers
>> in a high pressure environment while keeping ahead of commercial food
>> hygiene legislation). Cooking, is only a small part of a chef's
>> responsibility.
>>
>>
>> Janet
>
>Some of those responsibilites can be taken over by the restaurant
>manager as such. In a large establishment, the chef wouldn't necessarily
>be the accountant or even order the basic supplies. Not every chef has
>time to go round the farmer's markets every day and do all the shopping

A restaurant manager's responsibility is limited to the front, they
have nothing to do with the kitchen. A head chef is more involved
with managing the kitchen than in actual cooking... it's more
important for a chef to have accountancy/human resource skills than
cooking skills.

On Jul 4, 2:34*pm, Peter > wrote:


Good luck if you do decide to go through with this career change. I
won't repeat most of the (good) advice others have offered, except to
add a few comments which I hope you take in the constructive vein they
are intended.

Coking is an art, not a science, and most of what you learn (unlike
math) does not come from a book, but rather from a lot experience. If
you keep your eyes open, read, ask a lot of questions, and practice a
LOT, you'll learn a ton without having ever having to set one foot
inside a school. So, for this reason, you do not have to go to a
school to learn how to be a good cook. However, having said this, you
also have to be aware that when most people are doing this type of
apprentice-like learning they are working under someone. And for good
reason: there is a lot of basic knowledge you do have to have under
your belt to be able to actually run a kitchen. Some of it is basic
stuff, regarding food safety and health issues (like tempos for
storing/cooking certain types of meats and perishable food items,
etc), but then there are a lot of things that seem easy but aren't (if
you don't know what you're doing), such ordering food and beverages.
For this reason, I would strongly advise you NOT to start out trying
to be a cook if there is not someone you can work under. You could
kill someone or run the business into the ground, and probably also
ruin the start of what could have been a great experience.

The second thing I would add is that most people I know who went the
route you are considering were young when they started out. The long
hours, physical demands of the job, and dedication it takes are better
suited to a young unmarried person with lots of energy and not a lot
of other responsibilities. I don't know the details of your situation,
but this is something I think you would be wise to consider before
making this change.

Finally, I would kind of echo some of the other comments made in
regards to learning more about what the career is like before you get
too far in. Sometimes I think cooking is a bit like singing or stand-
up comedy: everybody thinks they can sing or are funny. A lot of
people enjoy cooking as a hobby and can even make a few dishes well,
but this is not what being a chef is about. Since you mentioned Gordon
Ramsey earlier, I'll tell you a funny story about a friend of mine who
watches one of his shows. He said, "Yeah, it's easy to be a cook. All
Gordon Ramsey does is come in, simplifies the menu down to a few
dishes, and then uses fresh ingredients. That's all you have to do!"
I've had friends in a situation similar to yours who are burned out in
their careers and think they would like to express their creative side
by being a chef. Nothing wrong with that, but after a day or two of
shadowing me, none of them have made the change, mostly because it is
not the life they saw on TV or had in their fantasy world.

Anyhow, best of luck, just be careful and make sure you understand
what you're getting into.

Cheers,
Matt

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 07:39:46 -0700 (PDT), A Moose In Love
> wrote:
>
>If you want to work an 8 hour a day job with some weekends with
>benefits, you need to become an institutional cook. Although much of
>that has changed. Now many institutions are using lower level cooks
>who basically just open up a frozen package and heat and serve. Many
>hospitals are now doing this. Frozen already cooked ham, roast beef,
>soups etc. Automation.

Nowadays many of the so-called finast eateries are using pre-prepared
Institutional foods, in fact they always have, even before they could
purchase already frozen elements they prepared their own. There's a
huge warehouse near where I live that supplies all manner of
pre-prepped meals; mostly wholesale but retail too.
There are suppliers like this in every region:
www.ginsbergs.com

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Dan Abel" > wrote
>>
>> Many people find that a career in cooking is not for them. The pay is
>> crappy, the benefits are often non-existent, the work is hard and the
>> hours are unbelievably long. Other people just love it. It looks like
>> you have the perfect opportunity to give it a try and see how it fits
>> you.
>>
>> If you find later that you need to take some classes, you could do that.
>> Maybe you won't need to. Or maybe you will decide that it isn't for you.
>
> I've heard it many times, "you should open a restaurant" Hell NO. I
> enjoy cooking, I'm pretty good at it from what others tell me, but I
> certainly don't want to own or work in a restaurant. Cooking would
> cease to be fun. I like weekends off. I like getting home from work
> about 4:30. I like being able to cook what I want and when I want, not
> on demand.

Yes, people used to tell me that I should open a restaurant. I am
glad I realized that cooking well is not the whole story. I
thought of the business end--and the matter of scale/retaining
high standards.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote:
>
> Yes, people used to tell me that I should open a restaurant. I am
> glad I realized that cooking well is not the whole story. I
> thought of the business end--and the matter of scale/retaining
> high standards.

I am reminded of the quote from Woody Allen
that was something like "Show business is
a business. If it wasn't, it'd be called
'show show'.".

Here's a pretty school with some very pretty prices:
https://www.cordonbleu.edu/programs/International

On 07/05/2010 05:40 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Dan Abel" > wrote
>>
>> Many people find that a career in cooking is not for them. The pay is
>> crappy, the benefits are often non-existent, the work is hard and the
>> hours are unbelievably long. Other people just love it. It looks like
>> you have the perfect opportunity to give it a try and see how it fits
>> you.
>>
>> If you find later that you need to take some classes, you could do that.
>> Maybe you won't need to. Or maybe you will decide that it isn't for you.
>
> I've heard it many times, "you should open a restaurant" Hell NO. I
> enjoy cooking, I'm pretty good at it from what others tell me, but I
> certainly don't want to own or work in a restaurant. Cooking would cease
> to be fun. I like weekends off. I like getting home from work about
> 4:30. I like being able to cook what I want and when I want, not on demand.

Yep. I was a caterer for a short time, and I HATED it. I cook well, but
I do it for people I love or at least like, and I decide what's going on
the table. And no one feels like they have to get their money's worth.
Works for me.

Serene

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 09:01:41 -0700 (PDT), Junoexpress
> wrote:

>On Jul 4, 2:34*pm, Peter > wrote:
>
>
>Good luck if you do decide to go through with this career change. I
>won't repeat most of the (good) advice others have offered, except to
>add a few comments which I hope you take in the constructive vein they
>are intended.
>
>Cooking is an art, not a science, and most of what you learn (unlike
>math) does not come from a book, but rather from a lot experience.

Yes, cooking is an art that experience polishes/grooms, but like the
other arts it's an inate talent you're born with it or not. Without
the natural talent all the formal schooling/instruction in the world
won't make one a cook anymore than thousands of hours of piano lessons
will make someone who's tone deaf a muscian.

>If you keep your eyes open, read, ask a lot of questions, and practice a
>LOT, you'll learn a ton without having ever having to set one foot
>inside a school. So, for this reason, you do not have to go to a
>school to learn how to be a good cook. However, having said this, you
>also have to be aware that when most people are doing this type of
>apprentice-like learning they are working under someone. And for good
>reason: there is a lot of basic knowledge you do have to have under
>your belt to be able to actually run a kitchen. Some of it is basic
>stuff, regarding food safety and health issues (like tempos for
>storing/cooking certain types of meats and perishable food items,
>etc), but then there are a lot of things that seem easy but aren't (if
>you don't know what you're doing), such ordering food and beverages.
>For this reason, I would strongly advise you NOT to start out trying
>to be a cook if there is not someone you can work under. You could
>kill someone or run the business into the ground, and probably also
>ruin the start of what could have been a great experience.
>
>The second thing I would add is that most people I know who went the
>route you are considering were young when they started out. The long
>hours, physical demands of the job, and dedication it takes are better
>suited to a young unmarried person with lots of energy and not a lot
>of other responsibilities. I don't know the details of your situation,
>but this is something I think you would be wise to consider before
>making this change.
>
>Finally, I would kind of echo some of the other comments made in
>regards to learning more about what the career is like before you get
>too far in. Sometimes I think cooking is a bit like singing or stand-
>up comedy: everybody thinks they can sing or are funny. A lot of
>people enjoy cooking as a hobby and can even make a few dishes well,
>but this is not what being a chef is about. Since you mentioned Gordon
>Ramsey earlier, I'll tell you a funny story about a friend of mine who
>watches one of his shows. He said, "Yeah, it's easy to be a cook. All
>Gordon Ramsey does is come in, simplifies the menu down to a few
>dishes, and then uses fresh ingredients. That's all you have to do!"
>I've had friends in a situation similar to yours who are burned out in
>their careers and think they would like to express their creative side
>by being a chef. Nothing wrong with that, but after a day or two of
>shadowing me, none of them have made the change, mostly because it is
>not the life they saw on TV or had in their fantasy world.

Professional cooking is nothing like home cooking and certainly
nothing like foodtv. Pro cooks are at the very top of the list of
occupations that suffer severe occupational injurys, right up there
with coal miner... most all pro cooks develop debilitating chronic
respiratory diseases.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
>
> The message >
> from Arri London > contains these words:
>
> > Janet Baraclough wrote:
> > >
> > > The message >
> > > from Serene Vannoy > contains these words:
> > >
> > > > On 07/04/2010 11:34 AM, Peter wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not sure if this is the appropriate newsgroup to which I should
> > > > > post, so please excuse me if it is not.
> > > > >
> > > > > My question is simply whether one has to go to "cooking school" to
> > > > > become a cook in a restaurant. I ask this question because I am
> > > > > considering making a career change. I am a middle age mathematician
> > > > > and I have the opportunity to cook at a small establishment a friend
> > > > > of mine is opening. I am a good cook, very passionate about food, and
> > > > > love to cook. He knows it, and is willing to put me on. Done the road
> > > > > though, I would like to perhaps move on and I am wondering if anyone
> > > > > will hire me without a proper degree? I don't have any pretensions of
> > > > > trying to become a great chef or of being at a fancy French
> > > > > restaurant: I mostly like to cook simple food well using fresh
> > > > > ingredients.
> > >
> > > > Just do a great job cooking, and take some classes if you have the
> > > > desire. Classes might help you become more proficient at the basics,
> > > > etc., but lots of chefs became successful without cooking school.
> > >
> > > True, but they usually did it by starting at the bottom and working
> > > their way up. Few start at the top.
> > >
> > > There is a gigantic difference, between being able to cook well on
> > > the domestic front for people you know, and being able to organise and
> > > manage a commercial kitchen team
> > > which supplies dozens of dishes to order, simultaneously. ( devise
> > > menus, organise suppliers, order and store the ingredients, balance the
> > > books, *and* manage a complex team of workers
> > > in a high pressure environment while keeping ahead of commercial food
> > > hygiene legislation). Cooking, is only a small part of a chef's
> > > responsibility.
> > >
> > >
> > > Janet
>
> > Some of those responsibilites can be taken over by the restaurant
> > manager as such. In a large establishment, the chef wouldn't necessarily
> > be the accountant or even order the basic supplies. Not every chef has
> > time to go round the farmer's markets every day and do all the shopping
> >
>
> Large establishments usually get their supplies delivered to order.
> IME, in places that cook a different menu daily from scratch, the
> person who devises the menus
> is usually the chef.
>
> Janet


I didn't mention who devises the menus. Other than in a chain place,
that is always within the purview of the chef.

On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 14:36:39 -0700 in rec.food.cooking, Mark Thorson
> wrote,
>I'd guess it's because many restaurants are started
>by people who know they can cook well, but don't
>realize they don't know how to run a business.

On that subject I found these past posts enlightening.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...son.ebicom.net


http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...son.ebicom.net
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...gigan ews.com