I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.

I made an Italian bread in a bread machine using the Breadman recipe book
for Italian herb bread, didn't use any herbs and the cycle was for French
bread (go figure). Well the dough for bread was great so I tried it for
pizza dough and it was great, chewy, with a yeast fragrance, foldable. I
take out of machine as it starts the final rise and let it rise in a bowl
until I'm ready to use. All the crap I've read is put out by morons who
think there is some grand secret used by pro's. Bull!

--
regards,

piedmont (michael)

the practical bbq'r!; http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/

On Jul 17, 7:31*am, piedmont > wrote:
> I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
> there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.
>
> I made an Italian bread in a bread machine using the Breadman recipe book
> for Italian herb bread, didn't use any herbs and the cycle was for French
> bread (go figure). Well the dough for bread was great so I tried it for
> pizza dough and it was great, chewy, with a yeast fragrance, foldable. I
> take out of machine as it starts the final rise and let it rise in a bowl
> until I'm ready to use. All the crap I've read is put out by morons who
> think there is some grand secret used by pro's. Bull!
>
> --
> regards,
>
> piedmont (michael)
>
> the practical bbq'r!;http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/

I think it's great that you have found a methodology that works for
you.. Other people have methodologies that
work for them.

I figure it's all good. :-)

ImStillMags > wrote in
:

snip
>
> I think it's great that you have found a methodology that works for
> you.. Other people have methodologies that
> work for them.
>
> I figure it's all good. :-)

Your correct, pizza dough can be like bbq and what you grew up eating is
what you may well like. My sister swears by bisquick dough for pizza, bless
her heart.

The many websites and pizza speciality forums I searched were fanatical. I
mostly reviewed those that professed to have cracked the 'brooklyn' pizza
dough secrets. Some giving recipes which required days to prepare, waiting
for starter doughs to ferment and other obsure and complicated techniques.


--
regards,

piedmont (michael)

the practical bbq'r!; http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/

"piedmont" wrote
> ImStillMags wrote in

>> I think it's great that you have found a methodology that works for
>> you.. Other people have methodologies that
>> work for them. I figure it's all good. :-)

> Your correct, pizza dough can be like bbq and what you grew up eating is
> what you may well like. My sister swears by bisquick dough for pizza,
> bless
> her heart.

Hehe true! She likes that taste and that is that.

> The many websites and pizza speciality forums I searched were fanatical. I
> mostly reviewed those that professed to have cracked the 'brooklyn' pizza
> dough secrets. Some giving recipes which required days to prepare, waiting
> for starter doughs to ferment and other obsure and complicated techniques.

Nothing wrong with those sites either. Some folks like to play in the
kitchen more than others. There actually is a taste difference in a long
fermented bread but this doesnt mean a regular sort is 'bad' or
'unacceptable'.

A person who bakes a good bit, may not consider that time for a starter mix
to ferment as even part of it all as they have it going all the time. It
only becomes notable for them, when they have to describe it as something
they added to the bread at the time when they make it. Take it like this.
They may have a starter on the counter all the time and while the coffee is
brewing, they add a little something or remove a bit if thats's what it
needs. They don't think of this as part of the bread process when that
evening they dip out the cup or whatever they need, to make some bread.

Conversely, a person with that counter top starter, may not be able to wrap
their head around a bread made without it. They *assume* all such breads
made without it are 'poor' or 'bad'. This isnt true either although some
types really are enhanced by those methods. Pizza dough isnt really one
enhanced that much by a long ferment. ABM's actually do them quite well on
a dough mode of 'pizza dough mode' if you have that.

Works well enough as the real magic is how you cook it and what you add to
the dough. I use lots of olive oil to an almost fougass (sp?) type.

"cshenk" > wrote in
:

> "piedmont" wrote
>> ImStillMags wrote in
>
>>> I think it's great that you have found a methodology that works for
>>> you.. Other people have methodologies that
>>> work for them. I figure it's all good. :-)
>
>> Your correct, pizza dough can be like bbq and what you grew up eating
>> is what you may well like. My sister swears by bisquick dough for
>> pizza, bless
>> her heart.
>
> Hehe true! She likes that taste and that is that.
>
>> The many websites and pizza speciality forums I searched were
>> fanatical. I mostly reviewed those that professed to have cracked the
>> 'brooklyn' pizza dough secrets. Some giving recipes which required
>> days to prepare, waiting for starter doughs to ferment and other
>> obsure and complicated techniques.
>
> Nothing wrong with those sites either. Some folks like to play in the
> kitchen more than others. There actually is a taste difference in a
> long fermented bread but this doesnt mean a regular sort is 'bad' or
> 'unacceptable'.
>
> A person who bakes a good bit, may not consider that time for a
> starter mix to ferment as even part of it all as they have it going
> all the time. It only becomes notable for them, when they have to
> describe it as something they added to the bread at the time when they
> make it. Take it like this. They may have a starter on the counter
> all the time and while the coffee is brewing, they add a little
> something or remove a bit if thats's what it needs. They don't think
> of this as part of the bread process when that evening they dip out
> the cup or whatever they need, to make some bread.
>
> Conversely, a person with that counter top starter, may not be able to
> wrap their head around a bread made without it. They *assume* all
> such breads made without it are 'poor' or 'bad'. This isnt true
> either although some types really are enhanced by those methods.
> Pizza dough isnt really one enhanced that much by a long ferment.
> ABM's actually do them quite well on a dough mode of 'pizza dough
> mode' if you have that.
>
> Works well enough as the real magic is how you cook it and what you
> add to the dough. I use lots of olive oil to an almost fougass (sp?)
> type.
>

Didn't want to start an insult war, what you say makes sense, I had an
ah ha moment with pizza dough after months of reading what seems like a
lot of over kill from some that professed they had 'THE' way to make
Brooklyn style pizza dough. When I, on a whim decided to use the Italian
bread dough for pizza dough, and the first batch I made came out
excellent, it was a moment of dang! this is easy and I had all these
others suggestions making it difficult. Of course to each their own,
whatever keeps one sane, I understand that. Just can't stand what seems
to be a mass of arm chair experts who get info off the net and try to
come across as having first hand knowledge. I do not believe that is the
case here on RFC, one or two but not a majority. The help that I've
obtained here has mostly been valuable and to the point.

--
regards,

piedmont (michael)

the practical bbq'r!; http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:56:04 +0000 (UTC), piedmont >
wrote:

> Didn't want to start an insult war, what you say makes sense, I had an
> ah ha moment with pizza dough after months of reading what seems like a
> lot of over kill from some that professed they had 'THE' way to make
> Brooklyn style pizza dough. When I, on a whim decided to use the Italian
> bread dough for pizza dough, and the first batch I made came out
> excellent, it was a moment of dang! this is easy and I had all these
> others suggestions making it difficult. Of course to each their own,
> whatever keeps one sane, I understand that. Just can't stand what seems
> to be a mass of arm chair experts who get info off the net and try to
> come across as having first hand knowledge. I do not believe that is the
> case here on RFC, one or two but not a majority. The help that I've
> obtained here has mostly been valuable and to the point.

Keep on doing what you're doing, the point is to please yourself not
people who will never taste it. My aha moment this week was grinding
a little salt on the very edge of the pizza (the part with no sauce).
OH, my god - that was good! Everybody commented about how much they
liked it... and it was pretty too.

BTW: what distinguishes Brooklyn style pizza from everything else?
Are you thinking of a particular pizzeria or is this a general style?
Is it based on Roman style, Sicilian style, somewhere else....

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

"piedmont" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote

>>> The many websites and pizza speciality forums I searched were
>>> fanatical. I mostly reviewed those that professed to have cracked the
>>> 'brooklyn' pizza dough secrets. Some giving recipes which required
>>> days to prepare, waiting for starter doughs to ferment and other
>>> obsure and complicated techniques.

(Lots of snippies going on)

>> Nothing wrong with those sites either. Some folks like to play in the
>> kitchen more than others.
>> Works well enough as the real magic is how you cook it and what you
>> add to the dough.

> Didn't want to start an insult war, what you say makes sense,

Grin, I've been bread making since the early 80's and worked the kitchen in
a pizza shop 1978-1983. Yup, even made dough.

> I had an
> ah ha moment with pizza dough after months of reading what seems like a
> lot of over kill from some that professed they had 'THE' way to make
> Brooklyn style pizza dough. When I, on a whim decided to use the Italian
> bread dough for pizza dough, and the first batch I made came out
> excellent, it was a moment of dang! this is easy and I had all these

The recipe at the Chanello's in Clemson SC was quite close to french bread.
They used a starter with it (been going for ages) but largely because it was
*cheaper*. I recall them having to re-start it when someone added the wrong
stuff and killed it and we used regular yeast in the dough for a week or so
until the new one got a good foundation and was enough in size to carry on
with regular use.

> others suggestions making it difficult. Of course to each their own,
> whatever keeps one sane, I understand that. Just can't stand what seems
> to be a mass of arm chair experts who get info off the net and try to
> come across as having first hand knowledge. I do not believe that is the
> case here on RFC, one or two but not a majority. The help that I've
> obtained here has mostly been valuable and to the point.

Some folks in usenet feel it's more important to 'look like the expert' than
help. BTW, if you want a friendly group of breadmakers, check out
alt.bread.recipes. We do all types and span from totally hand made artisan
with high hydrations, to ABM 'load it in 3 mins and forget it' levels. Only
warning for there is expect some to top post and ignore it. (It's based on
some of us there who are using screen readers for the blind).

piedmont wrote:

> The many websites and pizza speciality forums I searched were fanatical. I
> mostly reviewed those that professed to have cracked the 'brooklyn' pizza
> dough secrets. Some giving recipes which required days to prepare, waiting
> for starter doughs to ferment and other obsure and complicated techniques.


The fact that you would characterize using a preferment as obscure
says a lot about your experience level and overall knowledge. Calling
it complicated says something as well.

What matters is that you're happy with your own methods. Right on.
Go for what you know, or what you're capable of grasping at least.

--
Mort

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:15:57 -0700, Mort > wrote:

> What matters is that you're happy with your own methods. Right on.

Absolutely.

> Go for what you know, or what you're capable of grasping at least.

Ouch.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On 7/17/2010 10:31 AM, piedmont wrote:
> I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
> there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.

Really?

>
> I made an Italian bread in a bread machine using the Breadman recipe book
> for Italian herb bread, didn't use any herbs and the cycle was for French
> bread (go figure). Well the dough for bread was great so I tried it for
> pizza dough and it was great, chewy, with a yeast fragrance, foldable. I
> take out of machine as it starts the final rise and let it rise in a bowl
> until I'm ready to use. All the crap I've read is put out by morons who
> think there is some grand secret used by pro's. Bull!
>


You actually missed one of the simple things you can do to get an even
better result but clearly you are a genius since everyone else is a moron...

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:31:13 +0000 (UTC), piedmont >
wrote:

> I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
> there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.
>
> I made an Italian bread in a bread machine using the Breadman recipe book
> for Italian herb bread, didn't use any herbs and the cycle was for French
> bread (go figure). Well the dough for bread was great so I tried it for
> pizza dough and it was great, chewy, with a yeast fragrance, foldable. I
> take out of machine as it starts the final rise and let it rise in a bowl
> until I'm ready to use. All the crap I've read is put out by morons who
> think there is some grand secret used by pro's. Bull!

There's nothing like home made pizza dough! I don't have a bread
machine so I do the kneading part in my food processor. You can find
web sites that pooh pooh that method too. I say to h*ll with it and
do it my way anyway. I haven't had a single complaint from anyone who
has eaten my pizza yet; so I say make it your way and let the
accolades shower down on you.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

"piedmont" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
> > there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.
>
> I made an Italian bread in a bread machine using the Breadman recipe book
> > for Italian herb bread, didn't use any herbs and the cycle was for
> French
> bread (go figure). Well the dough for bread was great so I tried it for >
> pizza dough and it was great, chewy, with a yeast fragrance, foldable. I
> take out of machine as it starts the final rise and let it rise in a bowl
> > until I'm ready to use. All the crap I've read is put out by morons who
> think there is some grand secret used by pro's. Bull!

You are perfect and have nothing to learn from anyone. That's why you came
to express your contempt for all of us who have

OTH, maybe your tatstebuds haven't worked right since 1981. Maybe you have
never even tasted genuine Italian pizza and if you did would spit it out
yelling, "Where's the peperoni?" I've never said pizza dough is difficult,
just the opposite. What I think is the best, however, you could not do in a
machine. I therefore think your claim on perfection is spurious.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:55:52 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
>"piedmont" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
>> > there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.
>>
>> I made an Italian bread in a bread machine using the Breadman recipe book
>> > for Italian herb bread, didn't use any herbs and the cycle was for
>> French
>> bread (go figure). Well the dough for bread was great so I tried it for >
>> pizza dough and it was great, chewy, with a yeast fragrance, foldable. I
>> take out of machine as it starts the final rise and let it rise in a bowl
>> > until I'm ready to use. All the crap I've read is put out by morons who
>> think there is some grand secret used by pro's. Bull!
>
>You are perfect and have nothing to learn from anyone. That's why you came
>to express your contempt for all of us who have
>
>OTH, maybe your tatstebuds haven't worked right since 1981. Maybe you have
>never even tasted genuine Italian pizza and if you did would spit it out
>yelling, "Where's the peperoni?" I've never said pizza dough is difficult,
>just the opposite. What I think is the best, however, you could not do in a
>machine. I therefore think your claim on perfection is spurious.

Pizza dough is exactly precisely the same as bagel dough... no reason
it can't be made by machine... in fact it's one of the few doughs that
in quanties more than a few pounds can't be made by hand unless you're
Arnold.

On Jul 18, 6:25*am, brooklyn1 > wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:55:52 +0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"piedmont" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >>I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
> >> > there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.
>
> >> I made an Italian bread in a bread machine using the Breadman recipe book
> >> *> for Italian herb bread, didn't use any herbs and the cycle was for
> >> French
> >> bread (go figure). Well the dough for bread was great so I tried it for >
> >> pizza dough and it was great, chewy, with a yeast fragrance, foldable. I
> >> take out of machine as it starts the final rise and let it rise in a bowl
> >> *> until I'm ready to use. All the crap I've read is put out by morons who
> >> think there is some grand secret used by pro's. Bull!
>
> >You are perfect and have nothing to learn from anyone. *That's why you came
> >to express your contempt for all of us who have
>
> >OTH, maybe your tatstebuds haven't worked right since 1981. *Maybe you have
> >never even tasted genuine Italian pizza and if you did would spit it out
> >yelling, "Where's the peperoni?" *I've never said pizza dough is difficult,
> >just the opposite. *What I think is the best, however, you could not do in a
> >machine. *I therefore think your claim on perfection is spurious.
>
> Pizza dough is exactly precisely the same as bagel dough... no reason
> it can't be made by machine... in fact it's one of the few doughs that
> in quanties more than a few pounds can't be made by hand unless you're
> Arnold.

Ziffel?

--Bryan

Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz wrote:

> Pizza dough is exactly precisely the same as bagel dough.

Only if you're cheating the customers.

Bob

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:03:47 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz wrote:
>
> > Pizza dough is exactly precisely the same as bagel dough.
>
> Only if you're cheating the customers.
>

I think the inclusion of oil is the biggest controversy in pizza dough
today and if it's not, it ought to be.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

"sf" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:03:47 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
>> Clueless AOL newbie Sheldon "Pussy" Katz wrote:
>>
>> > Pizza dough is exactly precisely the same as bagel dough.
>>
>> Only if you're cheating the customers.
>>
>
> I think the inclusion of oil is the biggest controversy in pizza dough
> today and if it's not, it ought to be.

Huh? The recipe locked away for DOP pizza dough contains EVOO. What's the
question?

OTH, in Puglia some of them have lard and/or eggs in the dough!

brooklyn1 wrote:

> Pizza dough is exactly precisely the same as bagel dough...

ROTFL
--
Vilco
And the Family Stone

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:31:13 +0000 (UTC), piedmont >
wrote:

>I spent many hours reading websites and forums about pizza dough, I now say
>there are an awful lots of nonsense and fools out there.

Judging by the Uno's clone picture you posted I'd say you're the fool.
And then you went on to defend it.


Lou