Lynn wrote on Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT):

> On Jul 22, 12:57 pm, Andy > wrote:
>> "James Silverton" > wrote:
> >> blake wrote on Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:35:58 -0400:
>>
> >>>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:33 -0600, "gloria.p"
> >>>> > wrote:
>>
> >>>>> notbob wrote:
> >>>>>> I need some killer burn-yer-face-down Chinese mustard.
> >>>>>> Love the stuff. I can never find the same killer stuff
> >>>>>> they'd make a ying-yang design in a small saucer with
> >>>>>> ketchup in Chinese restaurants. I bought some weird
> >>>>>> no-name brand the other day and one taste had the jar
> >>>>>> making a graceful farewell arc to the trash can. Can
> >>>>>> anyone recommend a brand? I probably can't get it
> >>>>>> locally, but can look on the web. Don't even say
> >>>>>> Beaver brand!
>>
> >>>>>> nb
>>
> >>>>> Chinese restaurants make it from powdered mustard.
>>
> >>>> And water... that's it... but it's the oriental hot
> >>>> mustard, not yellow or brown. And for full heat it needs
> >>>> to age a few days at room temperature, then refrigerate.
>>
> >>> bullshit. as time passes, it gets less hot.
>>
> >>>> http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penze...ardpowder.html
>>
> >>> from this very site:
>>
> >>> 'Mustard is very hot when first mixed, and then mellows
> >>> with age.'
>>
> >>> so once again, you post a cite that contradicts your
> >>> thesis. must be that reading comprehension thing again.
>>
> >> You know, I think you are both right, believe it or not!
> >> English and Chinese mustards are simply made with water and
> >> mustard powder but the full flavor is not attained
> >> immediately. However, in my experience the flavor and
> >> hotness does lessen if the mustard is kept for
> >> days. Incidentally, a lot of US commercial mustard powders
> >> contain turmeric but Coleman's English does not.
>>
>> It's not Colemans or Coleman's.
>>
>> It's Colmans!
>>
>> How can you all cook if you can't read?

OK, Colmans, Colemans, Coleman's, Schmoleman's! Do you write replies
while sitting at your spice cupboard so that you can get spelling
correct? The stuff I talked about is the most usual form of mustard
powder in England, in a yellow can, however it is spelt!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:52:00 -0400, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> OK, Colmans, Colemans, Coleman's, Schmoleman's! Do you write replies
> while sitting at your spice cupboard so that you can get spelling
> correct? The stuff I talked about is the most usual form of mustard
> powder in England, in a yellow can, however it is spelt!

That's like me and Homade Chili Sauce. Now I need to remember there
is no E in Colmans either? Life is tough, especially when dealing
with brand name spellings. <sigh>

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:10:01 -0400, James Silverton wrote:

> blake wrote on Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:33:46 -0400:
>
>>>
>>> You know, I think you are both right, believe it or not!
>>> English and Chinese mustards are simply made with water and
>>> mustard powder but the full flavor is not attained
>>> immediately. However, in my experience the flavor and hotness
>>> does lessen if the mustard is kept for days. Incidentally, a
>>> lot of US commercial mustard powders contain turmeric but
>>> Coleman's English does not.
>
>> yes, it needs time to develop, but it's more like ten minutes
>> than 'a few days.'
>
> Just another point of information. When I was a kid in Britain, in
> addition to Mustard made with water, we also had milder versions made
> with mustard powder and milk or sometimes vinegar.
>
> A small amount of mustard powder is a a good emulsifying agent for
> French Oil and Vinegar dressing, made in a blender or food processor. I
> usually include a chopped garlic clove and prefer Chinese Rice Vinegar
> to wine, cider or malt vinegars.

i usually use some prepared mustard in a vinaigrette (just skaken up, not
blenderfied). even if it doesn't help with emulsifying, i'll pretend it
does.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:10:24 -0400, brooklyn1
> wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:33 -0600, "gloria.p" >
>wrote:

>>Chinese restaurants make it from powdered mustard.
>
>And water... that's it... but it's the oriental hot mustard, not
>yellow or brown. And for full heat it needs to age a few days at room
>temperature, then refrigerate. Penseys sells it, for cheap. Colemans
>won't work. And never allow mustard to come in contact with any metal
>(not even stainless steel). Mustard is stored in wood, ceramic,
>glass... spreaders are wood, bone/horn... modern food grade plastics
>are okay. Amazing how little so-called foodie folks know about the
>oldest, most common, inexpensive spice on the planet.

I was told some time ago that wasabi is more a Japanese affectation
than Chinese.... that said, I wonder if Chinese mustard is associated
with Szechuan cookery.... because if so, they would have had plenty on
iteraction with "foreign" sources for their spices.

I was also told that Chinese mustard is about 90-10% yellow to brown
seed, while I think COleman's is all finely ground yellow seed.
Anybody know more about this angle?

Alex

I've had good results with Philippine cane vinegar also. Around here
is either Sarap or the "other" (white swan brand?).

Alex

Chemiker > wrote:

> I wonder if Chinese mustard is associated
> with Szechuan cookery....

"Chinese mustard" appears to be a purely American phenomenon. It does
not seem to be associated with anything in China.

Victor

(Victor Sack) wrote in news:1jm5xgt.fgcaavzwg8emN%
:

> Chemiker > wrote:
>
>> I wonder if Chinese mustard is associated
>> with Szechuan cookery....
>
> "Chinese mustard" appears to be a purely American phenomenon. It does
> not seem to be associated with anything in China.
>
> Victor
>


Ekchewly........ there was a Chinese Chef as the challenger on the Japanese
"Iron Chef" last night.

http://www.geocities.ws/oceanaria9/eps.html#cabbage


Iron Chef Chen vs. Gyokubun Sai



The main ingredient was chinese cabbage, and she used Chinese Mustard to make
a dish. There are heaps of recipes online to make Chinese mustard as well.



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:06:10 -0500, Chemiker wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:10:24 -0400, brooklyn1
> > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:33 -0600, "gloria.p" >
>>wrote:
>
>>>Chinese restaurants make it from powdered mustard.
>>
>>And water... that's it... but it's the oriental hot mustard, not
>>yellow or brown. And for full heat it needs to age a few days at room
>>temperature, then refrigerate. Penseys sells it, for cheap. Colemans
>>won't work. And never allow mustard to come in contact with any metal
>>(not even stainless steel). Mustard is stored in wood, ceramic,
>>glass... spreaders are wood, bone/horn... modern food grade plastics
>>are okay. Amazing how little so-called foodie folks know about the
>>oldest, most common, inexpensive spice on the planet.
>
> I was told some time ago that wasabi is more a Japanese affectation
> than Chinese.... that said, I wonder if Chinese mustard is associated
> with Szechuan cookery.... because if so, they would have had plenty on
> iteraction with "foreign" sources for their spices.

i don't recall seeing chinese mustard used in szechuan recipes and i've at
least read a lot of them. they lean more towards hot bean paste, whole
dried hot peppers (fried), or red oil for heat.

your pal,
blake

Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 00:44:41 +0200, Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > "Chinese mustard" appears to be a purely American phenomenon. It does
> > not seem to be associated with anything in China.
>
> China is the second largest grower of Brassica Juncea (AKA Chinese
> Mustard).

The thread is about the prepared condiment served in many
Chinese-American restaurants, not about the plant.

Victor

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:17:03 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:47:43 -0400, blake murphy wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:06:10 -0500, Chemiker wrote:
>>
>>> I was told some time ago that wasabi is more a Japanese affectation
>>> than Chinese.... that said, I wonder if Chinese mustard is associated
>>> with Szechuan cookery.... because if so, they would have had plenty on
>>> iteraction with "foreign" sources for their spices.
>>
>> i don't recall seeing chinese mustard used in szechuan recipes and i've at
>> least read a lot of them. they lean more towards hot bean paste, whole
>> dried hot peppers (fried), or red oil for heat.
>
> Sichuan area (and the rest of China to a lesser degree) is big on
> pickled mustard greens. There's probably 12 different kinds at my
> grocer - shrikwrapped in foil-ish packages or in small cans..
>
> -sw

i've bought both the canned and shrink-wrapped but haven't yet used them.
time to get on the stick, i guess.

your pal,
blake

PL > wrote:

> (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >
> > "Chinese mustard" appears to be a purely American phenomenon. It does
> > not seem to be associated with anything in China.
>
>
> Ekchewly........ there was a Chinese Chef as the challenger on the Japanese
> "Iron Chef" last night.
>
> http://www.geocities.ws/oceanaria9/eps.html#cabbage
>
> The main ingredient was chinese cabbage, and she used Chinese Mustard to make
> a dish. There are heaps of recipes online to make Chinese mustard as well.

I do not see any mention of mustard (condiment) following your link,
just mustard cabbage/greens. Indeed, there are any number of perfectly
authentic Chinese mustard *greens* recipes, but not a single one of the
*condiment* that appears to be of genuinely Chinese (as in originating
in China) origin.

I have never seen mustard (the condiment) in any Chinese restaurant
outside of America, particularly not in Hong Kong, where I have eaten in
Cantonese, Chiu Chow, Peking, Shanghai and Szechuan restaurants. I have
asked at local, perfectly authentically - as far as I can tell -
Cantonese place, about the so-called "Chinese mustard" and they have
never heard of it. Until relatively recently, most Chinese-American
restaurants were run by the Chinese originally from the Canton region.
Very hot mustard - actually very hot (spicy) anything - would be unusual
for the Cantonese cuisine.

Victor

(Victor Sack) wrote in
:

> PL > wrote:
>
>> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>> >
>> > "Chinese mustard" appears to be a purely American phenomenon. It
>> > does not seem to be associated with anything in China.
>>
>>
>> Ekchewly........ there was a Chinese Chef as the challenger on the
>> Japanese "Iron Chef" last night.
>>
>> http://www.geocities.ws/oceanaria9/eps.html#cabbage
>>
>> The main ingredient was chinese cabbage, and she used Chinese Mustard
>> to make a dish. There are heaps of recipes online to make Chinese
>> mustard as well.
>
> I do not see any mention of mustard (condiment) following your link,
> just mustard cabbage/greens. Indeed, there are any number of perfectly
> authentic Chinese mustard *greens* recipes, but not a single one of the
> *condiment* that appears to be of genuinely Chinese (as in originating
> in China) origin.
>


I can only tell you what I saw on Iron Chef...... and I think I have the
video here for you to see for yourself.

Will view and post it later.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

PL > wrote in
:

> (Victor Sack) wrote in
> :

>>
>> I do not see any mention of mustard (condiment) following your link,
>> just mustard cabbage/greens. Indeed, there are any number of perfectly
>> authentic Chinese mustard *greens* recipes, but not a single one of the
>> *condiment* that appears to be of genuinely Chinese (as in originating
>> in China) origin.
>>
>
>
> I can only tell you what I saw on Iron Chef...... and I think I have the
> video here for you to see for yourself.
>
> Will view and post it later.
>
>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMrDy...eature=related

At 5:50secs.

Seems in Peking style cooking they use a "lot of pepper and mustard".



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

PL > wrote:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMrDy...eature=related
>
> At 5:50secs.
>
> Seems in Peking style cooking they use a "lot of pepper and mustard".

Thanks, that was interesting!

Still, considering the otherwise near total absence of so much as a
mention of "Chinese mustard" from non-American sources, I'd be rather
inclined to assume that it was that particular chef's idiosyncrasy, or
even a borrowing from a Western cuisine.

The only Peking-style recipe with mustard I've seen is chicken and
cucumber salad from _Pei Mei's Chinese Cook Book Vol. 1_. Dry mustard
is used in the recipe. A deliberately comprehensive cookbook by Yan-kit
So does not mention mustard (the condiment) at all, and she used to live
in the USA for a bit, so is probably familiar with the Sino-American
"Chinese mustard".

Victor

(Victor Sack) wrote in news:1jmb8k2.4xh3tkks9n6cN%
:

> PL > wrote:
>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMrDy...eature=related
>>
>> At 5:50secs.
>>
>> Seems in Peking style cooking they use a "lot of pepper and mustard".
>
> Thanks, that was interesting!


No worries.


>
> Still, considering the otherwise near total absence of so much as a
> mention of "Chinese mustard" from non-American sources, I'd be rather
> inclined to assume that it was that particular chef's idiosyncrasy, or
> even a borrowing from a Western cuisine.


Well, I just took the resident 'food guru' the Professor... 'Doc' Yukio
Hatori's, word for it that it features predominately in Peking style
cooking.


>
> The only Peking-style recipe with mustard I've seen is chicken and
> cucumber salad from _Pei Mei's Chinese Cook Book Vol. 1_. Dry mustard
> is used in the recipe. A deliberately comprehensive cookbook by Yan-kit
> So does not mention mustard (the condiment) at all, and she used to live
> in the USA for a bit, so is probably familiar with the Sino-American
> "Chinese mustard".
>


I'll have to have a very close look next time I go to Chinatown.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:12:51 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:03:45 -0400, blake murphy wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:17:03 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:
>>
>>> Sichuan area (and the rest of China to a lesser degree) is big on
>>> pickled mustard greens. There's probably 12 different kinds at my
>>> grocer - shrikwrapped in foil-ish packages or in small cans..
>>
>> i've bought both the canned and shrink-wrapped but haven't yet used them.
>> time to get on the stick, i guess.
>
> I always have some lying around. Not sure why - I haven't yet
> found one I like. They all taste... industrial.
>
> http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6...ledmustard.jpg
>
> Product of Thailand? <shrug>
>
> -sw

hard to think of how a thai pickled mustard would be that much different
from chinese.

i wonder if the big Han Ah Reum store sorta near me has the stuff in vats.
(the store has a korean emphasis.) might be a faster turnover, anyway.

your pal,
blake