Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Mon 02 Aug 2010 06:55:18p, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Tue 27 Jul 2010 06:53:50p, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon 26 Jul 2010 07:10:19a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>> I am thinking I'd rather do a casserole version of stuffed
>>>>>> cabbage.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I have done that a couple of times, and the flavor is really
>>>>> just as good, but I missed the traditioin of the cabbage rolls.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I'd only do them for the effect, if I had to. Which I generally
>>>> don't.
>>>>
>>> It's just not the same, at least not to me. Perhaps you didn't
>>> grow up eating them as I did.
>>>
>> That is probably true.
>>
>
> It's kind of funny, actually. Until I was ten years old I grew up
> eating primarily southern cooking as my family is all from the south,
> and most still live there.
>
> Then we moved to Cleveland and were immersed in the many cultures of
> eastern Europe. I was immediately attracted to the flavors,
> textures, and appearances of foods from the areas of Slovakia,
> Slovenia, Hungary, Crotia, Poland, Russia, etc. Our neighborhood was
> a true melting pot, and many of my classmates were either 1st or 2nd
> generation of these ethnicities. There were also a fair number from
> Germany and Austria, but rather few from Italy or France. I was
> fortunate to enjoy meals in many of friends' homes, and they in turn
> had their first experience of southern US cooking when they came to
> our home. During that time I managed to collect quite a few recipes,
> or at least watch many of these dishes being prepared.
>
> I think this is why my focus is in preparing some of these dishes as
> "authentically" as possible. They must didn't take shortcuts. :-)
>
> One of my friend's parents were immigrants from Hungary.
> Occasionally I would be at their home when his mother was making
> strudel. It was fascinating to watch her strech the strudel dough.
> I have never managed to truly master that art.
>
Well, you truly have another perspective--one that I can only envy.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." > ha scritto nel messaggio
> Giusi wrote:
>>> Maybe so. I am wondering how the two methods could be equal in > terms
>>> of effort. Would you please elaborate?
>>
>> It's really hard to elaborate on something that is not at all elaborate!
>> >> Lay leaf, plop meat, roll, fold, roll and place in casserole.
>> Continue. Add sauce and bake. I know some do this in a pot on the
>> burber, but I don't.
> No. I meant elaborate on how they could be the least bit similar > in
> amount of time and effort required.

I thought I did. Compare that to cutting and shredding cabbage and layering
it in a casserole. I think they are both very easy. I don't cook then
separate, though. I separate and briefly cook before the above operation.
I do it just about weekly in winter, so it can't be that complicated!

"Jean B." > ha scritto nel messaggio
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> I'd still rather do a casserole. I want the bang without the
>>> work.
>>
>> Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not >>
>> "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its traditional form.
>>
> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?

Not really, because the stuffing is not enclosed while cooking, the sauce
will touch all of the meat and absorb more of its flavors, and the cabbage
will also be completely stewed in the sauce. While some might very much
prefer that, it won't taste the same, just as beef tastes different if
braised compared to roasted.

"Wayne Boatwright" > ha scritto nel messaggio
Jean B. told us...

>> Is there no middle ground between rolled and thrown? I am just >> being
>> argumentative. Don't mind me, Wayne. :-)
>>
>
> LOL! I guess for me there isn't, but aside from taste and mouth > feel,
> following tradition is a big thing. I can certainly understand
> anyone wanting to minimize effort in creating something. I certainly > do
> that with things that don't particularly matter to me.

The closest I have come is a type of "lasagne" in which layers of whole
cabbage leaves separate layers of seasoned raw meat filling, all topped with
what I usually cook cabbage rolls in and then baked. Sort of a fool the eye
thing, recipe is low carb and not the traditional, although not that far
off. There's no particular advantage to this other than a bit of variety
for the dieter.

The smell of a kidney being boiled down for kidney pie.

Chitlins boiling forever.

Fresh grating a pound of horseradish; though that smell isn't really nasty, just strong.

I vote for the kidneys.

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:50:30 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>sf wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:10:39 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not
>>>> "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its traditional
>>>> form.
>>>>
>>> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
>>
>> Men are visual creatures.
>>
>
>LOL! Good point! How could I forget that!

The same way you forgot that Duh'Weenie is not a man... he's a fag
(AM) Anatomically Male.

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:52:02 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Mon 02 Aug 2010 06:10:39p, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Tue 27 Jul 2010 06:43:17p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>>> In article >, "Jean B."
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am thinking I'd rather do a casserole version of stuffed
>>>>>>> cabbage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jean B.
>>>>>> Try Napa cabbage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The leaves are not wrapped around the head like regular round
>>>>>> cabbages so peel off intact easily. Stack them in a steamer and
>>>>>> wilt them until they are soft enough to roll:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmele...Cabbage#537586
>>>>>> 41 4791550 7266>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmele...Cabbage#537586
>>>>>> 41 4637159 0818>
>>>>> I'd still rather do a casserole. I want the bang without the
>>>>> work.
>>>>>
>>>> Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not
>>>> "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its
>>>> traditional form.
>>>>
>>> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
>>>
>>
>> Yes and no. The ingredients could be identical, but for me, taste
>> and texture are closely related. In a deconstructed "cabbage roll"
>> casserole, layers of the ingredients mean that the meat/rice mixture
>> is relatively "scattered" throughout the dish, like most any other
>> casserole that contains ground beef. In real cabbage rolls the
>> meat/rice mixture forms almost a mini-meatloaf wrapped inside the
>> cabbage leaf. Each version is an entirely different eating
>> experience. In the two different versions of cabbage rolls that I
>> make, the meat/rice mixture is seasoned differently than the suace,
>> which brings yet another dimension to the overall outcome.
>> Aesthetically, IMNSHO, cabbage rolls have a certain informal formal
>> appearance and more inviting when served. Visually, the casserole
>> version reminds me of just a notch above hamburger helper.
>>
>LOL! I will definitely concede on the visual appeal front. Also,
>the taste could be somewhat different. I know I have done some
>little experiments in how the different components hit your mouth
>and tongue and the ramifications of that.

Hmm, this could turn into quite a thread. LOL

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Mon 02 Aug 2010 07:54:29p, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Mon 02 Aug 2010 06:48:26p, Wayne Boatwright told us...
>>>
>>>> On Mon 02 Aug 2010 06:10:39p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue 27 Jul 2010 06:43:17p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article >, "Jean B."
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am thinking I'd rather do a casserole version of stuffed
>>>>>>>>> cabbage.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jean B.
>>>>>>>> Try Napa cabbage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The leaves are not wrapped around the head like regular
>>>>>>>> round cabbages so peel off intact easily. Stack them in a
>>>>>>>> steamer and wilt them until they are soft enough to roll:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmele...apaCabbage#537
>>>>>>>> 58 6 41 4791550 7266>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmele...apaCabbage#537
>>>>>>>> 58 6 41 4637159 0818>
>>>>>>> I'd still rather do a casserole. I want the bang without the
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just
>>>>>> not "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its
>>>>>> traditional form.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes and no. The ingredients could be identical, but for me,
>>>> taste and texture are closely related. In a deconstructed
>>>> "cabbage roll" casserole, layers of the ingredients mean that
>>>> the meat/rice mixture is relatively "scattered" throughout the
>>>> dish, like most any other casserole that contains ground beef.
>>>> In real cabbage rolls the meat/rice mixture forms almost a
>>>> mini-meatloaf wrapped inside the cabbage leaf. Each version is
>>>> an entirely different eating experience. In the two different
>>>> versions of cabbage rolls that I make, the meat/rice mixture is
>>>> seasoned differently than the suace, which brings yet another
>>>> dimension to the overall outcome. Aesthetically, IMNSHO,
>>>> cabbage rolls have a certain informal formal appearance and more
>>>> inviting when served. Visually, the casserole version reminds me
>>>> of just a notch above hamburger helper.
>>>>
>>> Think of other "stuffed" dishes like German rouladen or Italian
>>> stuffed shells, etc.. They would hardly be the same if just all
>>> chopped up and thrown in a casserole dish.
>>>
>> Is there no middle ground between rolled and thrown? I am just
>> being argumentative. Don't mind me, Wayne. :-)
>>
>
> LOL! I guess for me there isn't, but aside from taste and mouth
> feel, following tradition is a big thing. I can certainly understand
> anyone wanting to minimize effort in creating something. I certainly
> do that with things that don't particularly matter to me.
>
Ah yes. Actually what you say about tradition is food for
thought. I suppose the sloppy approach could eventually lead
folks to forget about the real thing, and that would be a shame.

--
Jean B.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Mon 02 Aug 2010 07:55:44p, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>>> It's kind of funny, actually. Until I was ten years old I grew
>>> up eating primarily southern cooking as my family is all from the
>>> south, and most still live there.
>>>
>>> Then we moved to Cleveland and were immersed in the many cultures
>>> of eastern Europe. I was immediately attracted to the flavors,
>>> textures, and appearances of foods from the areas of Slovakia,
>>> Slovenia, Hungary, Crotia, Poland, Russia, etc. Our neighborhood
>>> was a true melting pot, and many of my classmates were either 1st
>>> or 2nd generation of these ethnicities. There were also a fair
>>> number from Germany and Austria, but rather few from Italy or
>>> France. I was fortunate to enjoy meals in many of friends'
>>> homes, and they in turn had their first experience of southern US
>>> cooking when they came to our home. During that time I managed
>>> to collect quite a few recipes, or at least watch many of these
>>> dishes being prepared.
>>>
>>> I think this is why my focus is in preparing some of these dishes
>>> as "authentically" as possible. They must didn't take shortcuts.
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> One of my friend's parents were immigrants from Hungary.
>>> Occasionally I would be at their home when his mother was making
>>> strudel. It was fascinating to watch her strech the strudel
>>> dough. I have never managed to truly master that art.
>>>
>> Well, you truly have another perspective--one that I can only
>> envy.
>>
>
> I consider myself extremely fortunate to have that experience.
>
Yes!

--
Jean B.

Giusi wrote:
> "Jean B." > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> Giusi wrote:
>>>> Maybe so. I am wondering how the two methods could be equal in > terms
>>>> of effort. Would you please elaborate?
>>> It's really hard to elaborate on something that is not at all elaborate!
>>> >> Lay leaf, plop meat, roll, fold, roll and place in casserole.
>>> Continue. Add sauce and bake. I know some do this in a pot on the
>>> burber, but I don't.
>> No. I meant elaborate on how they could be the least bit similar > in
>> amount of time and effort required.
>
> I thought I did. Compare that to cutting and shredding cabbage and layering
> it in a casserole. I think they are both very easy. I don't cook then
> separate, though. I separate and briefly cook before the above operation.
> I do it just about weekly in winter, so it can't be that complicated!
>
>
Well, assuming I am persuaded, I would have to make a huge amount
and then freeze portions, as someone suggested.

--
Jean B.

Giusi wrote:
> "Jean B." > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> I'd still rather do a casserole. I want the bang without the
>>>> work.
>>> Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not >>
>>> "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its traditional form.
>>>
>> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
>
> Not really, because the stuffing is not enclosed while cooking, the sauce
> will touch all of the meat and absorb more of its flavors, and the cabbage
> will also be completely stewed in the sauce. While some might very much
> prefer that, it won't taste the same, just as beef tastes different if
> braised compared to roasted.
>
>
Ahhhhh. Good advice.

--
Jean B.

brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:52:02 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Mon 02 Aug 2010 06:10:39p, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Tue 27 Jul 2010 06:43:17p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>>>> In article >, "Jean B."
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am thinking I'd rather do a casserole version of stuffed
>>>>>>>> cabbage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jean B.
>>>>>>> Try Napa cabbage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The leaves are not wrapped around the head like regular round
>>>>>>> cabbages so peel off intact easily. Stack them in a steamer and
>>>>>>> wilt them until they are soft enough to roll:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmele...Cabbage#537586
>>>>>>> 41 4791550 7266>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmele...Cabbage#537586
>>>>>>> 41 4637159 0818>
>>>>>> I'd still rather do a casserole. I want the bang without the
>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not
>>>>> "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its
>>>>> traditional form.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
>>>>
>>> Yes and no. The ingredients could be identical, but for me, taste
>>> and texture are closely related. In a deconstructed "cabbage roll"
>>> casserole, layers of the ingredients mean that the meat/rice mixture
>>> is relatively "scattered" throughout the dish, like most any other
>>> casserole that contains ground beef. In real cabbage rolls the
>>> meat/rice mixture forms almost a mini-meatloaf wrapped inside the
>>> cabbage leaf. Each version is an entirely different eating
>>> experience. In the two different versions of cabbage rolls that I
>>> make, the meat/rice mixture is seasoned differently than the suace,
>>> which brings yet another dimension to the overall outcome.
>>> Aesthetically, IMNSHO, cabbage rolls have a certain informal formal
>>> appearance and more inviting when served. Visually, the casserole
>>> version reminds me of just a notch above hamburger helper.
>>>
>> LOL! I will definitely concede on the visual appeal front. Also,
>> the taste could be somewhat different. I know I have done some
>> little experiments in how the different components hit your mouth
>> and tongue and the ramifications of that.
>
> Hmm, this could turn into quite a thread. LOL

LOL!

--
Jean B.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 03 Aug 2010 08:43:16a, Jean B. told us...
>> Ah yes. Actually what you say about tradition is food for
>> thought. I suppose the sloppy approach could eventually lead
>> folks to forget about the real thing, and that would be a shame.
>>
>
> You're exactly right. I've seen this happen with a few 3rd or 4th
> generation decendants of immigrants. Some don't really even know how
> to make the original. It's rather sad, IMO.
>
This train of thought may lead me to change my mind.

--
Jean B.

I've never made chits or kidney pie. I've had (different) neighbors prepare each, though, and the smell was unforgettable.

I grate horsey, though. STRONG!!! If I grate even a half pound I need some schnoz protection.

"sf" > wrote in message
news
> On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:10:39 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> >
>> > Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not
>> > "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its traditional
>> > form.
>> >
>> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
>
> Men are visual creatures.
>
> --
>
Stare at that sentence long and hard for a while, then get back to us.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:26:38 -0400, "Ala" >
wrote:
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> news
> > On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:10:39 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
> >
> >> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not
> >> > "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its traditional
> >> > form.
> >> >
> >> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
> >
> > Men are visual creatures.
> >
> > --
> >
> Stare at that sentence long and hard for a while, then get back to us.

I stand by what I said. Whichever way you want to take it.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:26:38 -0400, "Ala" >
> wrote:
>>
>> "sf" > wrote in message
>> news
>> > On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:10:39 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Personally, I will never make the casserole again. It's just not
>> >> > "cabbage rolls/stuffed cabbage" unless it's made in its traditional
>> >> > form.
>> >> >
>> >> Well, of course, it isn't rolls. But can't it taste the same?
>> >
>> > Men are visual creatures.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> Stare at that sentence long and hard for a while, then get back to us.
>
> I stand by what I said. Whichever way you want to take it.
>


LOL. It was just a joke.
If you are a male and supposed to be visual, you would necessarily take in
the sentence that "men are visual creatures" by visually taking it in

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:31:37 -0400, "Ala" >
wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >
> >> > Men are visual creatures.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> Stare at that sentence long and hard for a while, then get back to us.
> >
> > I stand by what I said. Whichever way you want to take it.
> >
>
>
> LOL. It was just a joke.
> If you are a male and supposed to be visual, you would necessarily take in
> the sentence that "men are visual creatures" by visually taking it in

It's funnier a few hours later. Sorry.

--

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

Ala wrote:
>
> "Jean B." > wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>> You usually (or I usually?) use a very small amount of asafoetida when
>> cooking. Yes, it does smell at first, but when it is cooked with the
>> other spices and herbs, it doesn't stand out. It is noticeable when I
>> get near my spice racks though (even though it is at least doubly
>> sealed).
>>
>> --
>
>
> I've always thought of them as the mating of a garlic clove and an onion
> who had a baby but kept all the worst qualities.
>
> Has anyone mentioned durian yet?

You just did....

--
Jean B.