"<RJ>" > wrote in message
...
>
> I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
> call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>
> I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
> seems "unfinished".....
>
> And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
> ( you'd think they know what they're doing )

I always brown meat AND veggies first.
--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:34:02 -0700, "<RJ>" > wrote:

>
>I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
>call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>
>I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
>seems "unfinished".....
>
>And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
>( you'd think they know what they're doing )
>
>???

You expect them to say that crockpots are TIAD/Lazy *******
cooking?

"<RJ>" wrote

> I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
> call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.

The lower slower heat makes that suprfluous in many recipes.

> I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
> seems "unfinished".....

Show me the recipe and i can tell you what was wrong.

> And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
> ( you'd think they know what they're doing )

If it makes you happy to brown it first, do so. Browning of meat is
generally to seal in juices when a high heat is used. Since crockpots
generally 'steam infuse' meats, it's redundant with most recipies to do
that.

<RJ> wrote:
> I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
> call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>
> I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
> seems "unfinished".....
>
> And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
> ( you'd think they know what they're doing )

It may be because the selling point of slow cookers is the ease of meal
preparation and the use of a minimal number of appliances.... one... the
slow cooker.

cshenk wrote:

> "" wrote
>
> > I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
> > call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>
>
> The lower slower heat makes that suprfluous in many recipes.
>
> > I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
> > seems "unfinished".....
>
>
> Show me the recipe and i can tell you what was wrong.
>
> > And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
> > ( you'd think they know what they're doing )
>
>
> If it makes you happy to brown it first, do so. Browning of meat is
> generally to seal in juices when a high heat is used. Since crockpots
> generally 'steam infuse' meats, it's redundant with most recipies to do
> that.
>
Searing or browning meat also can produce not only more complex flavor
to the meat whcih can be enhanced by the oil used but also this browning
also produces a "fond" or browned, stuck on bits on the bottom of the
pan the meat is browned in, this is enhanced if one first tosses the raw
meat in seasoned flour first and browns with a fine dice of onion and
mashed garlic.

Which 'fond' is then used to make the roux with stock or wine or other
liquid and that all added to the stew for the slow cooking. Or reserved
for a seperate sauce.

Putting everything to cook in a pot at a set and low temperature for 5 -
7 hours will produce an adequate meal. But IMO the need for skimming of
fats as they rise to the top needs to take place, and im told there are
water soluble fats that will break down back into the liquid if not
skimmed off as they arise.

Whick is one reason for starting meat in cold water and skiming the
various effluvia that are thrown off the meat at various temperatures.

Usually takes no more than a half an hour at a strong simmer to get the
piece of meat to where it is "throwing off" very little further fats and
then can be left and only checked ever 20 minutes or so for any further
skimming.

And i cant imagine serving much less eating 5 - 7 hour over cooked veggies.

When i used a crock pot while i was at work i would come home, remove
the contents of the stock pot and seperate the meats from the veggies,
strain the cooking liquid, de fat and after makeing sure i had pressed
out of the over cooked veggies all the juice i could i threw away the
over cooked veggies. Returned the meat and stock and any necessary new
liquid (stock, wine, water) to a stove top stew pot and then added fresh
veggies to cook for 10 - 15 minutes.

If i wanted a thick stew i would add the roux tword the end of the
veggies cooking, but i have found that if one starts the long slow
coooking of the meat with some potatoes this thickining is not necessary
to achive a thick style soup.

I like plain boiled beef. Just a good big chunk braised in water till
fork tender. I can eat that like candy. But i like a good complex beef
stew even better.

Beef braised in red wine is a favorite, using Borollo wine is very good
but i will use a domestic red with good results, i like gallo chenine
blanc for cooking but pruchase a lesser known brand of red wine sold as
"Burgandy." Its a "jug wine" but i cant recall its name right off the
top of my head.

--

Mr. Joseph Paul Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.

Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> "<RJ>" wrote
>
> > I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
> > call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>
> The lower slower heat makes that suprfluous in many recipes.
>
> > I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
> > seems "unfinished".....
>
> Show me the recipe and i can tell you what was wrong.
>
> > And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
> > ( you'd think they know what they're doing )
>
> If it makes you happy to brown it first, do so. Browning of meat is
> generally to seal in juices when a high heat is used.

That's been shown to be not so. Browning meat is all about the Maillard
reaction, which adds a lot of flavor.

Isaac

<RJ> wrote:

> I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
> call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>
> I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
> seems "unfinished".....
>
> And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
> ( you'd think they know what they're doing )

Most crockpots are not capable of browning the meat, so they omit that step,
because they don't want the cook to have to dirty another cooking vessel.

There are lots of curry recipes in which you don't brown the meat; maybe you
could try some of those. Similarly, there are some non-crockpot recipes
(such as corned beef & cabbage, the boiled beef that Christine posts about,
some chili recipes, or New England boiled dinner) where you don't brown the
meat; I'd expect those to work fine in the crockpot. But for most stews or
braises, omitting the browning step means sacrificing flavor and body.

Basically, I guess I'm saying that the books supplied by the manufacturer
suck. You're better off either finding conventional recipes which can be
adapted to the crockpot or adding in the browning step on your own, even
though it means dirtying more dishes.

Bob

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:34:02 -0700, <RJ> wrote:

> I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
> call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>
> I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
> seems "unfinished".....
>
> And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
> ( you'd think they know what they're doing )
>
> ???

for some, the appeal of the crockpot is they can dump crap into it in the
morning and come home to a meal. browning the meat just complicates things
for them.

your pal,
blake

I would defitinitely brown. It's just the right way to go. I make my stew in a Dutch over (it has little wooden shoes) and the browning step is what really gives it the flavor (so long as you deglaze with those yummies).

How 'bout this. Brown the meat in cast iron, deglaze from there and pour the deglazing fluid, along with the meat, into the crock with the veggies and then and let 'er rip for a while.

Take paper towel, wipe out cast iron,maybe add a little oil or lard to it for next time and fahgit abotit!!

"Stu" wrote

> Obviously you don't have a job or kids in lessons and sports. The
> crockpot is a life saver for many families.

Stu, most here don't even own a crockpot or if they did, never learned to
use it *right*. It's like dissing a cast iron pan because it can rust if
you don't know what you are doing.

I got my first one in 1977 and learned how to use it properly over the
decades.

"Stu" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote:

>> Stu, most here don't even own a crockpot or if they did, never learned to
>> use it *right*. It's like dissing a cast iron pan because it can rust if
>> you don't know what you are doing.

>>I got my first one in 1977 and learned how to use it properly over the
>>decades.

> All I wondered was how they could denegate such a great product as the
> crockpot when they don't even own one.

Lots of reasons but mostly lack of knowledge. I used to diss the GF grll
too until someone showed me a proper use of one. It doesnt fit my cooking
style at all, but learned that used *correctly* it's perfectly fine piece of
gear. I don't have space for it really but if a 3d one landed for free in
my lap, I wouldnt freecyle it away like the last 2.

Crockpots were all the rage in the late 70's and early 1980's but finding
ones with removable liners were hard so many put them at the side after one
or 2 uses and ignored them ever after. Although some here know how to use
them to good effect, this is not a commonality of the group.

On Aug 9, 4:15 pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> "Stu" wrote
> ....
> > All I wondered was how they could denegate such a great product as the
> > crockpot when they don't even own one.
>
> Lots of reasons but mostly lack of knowledge.

Not so. There have been many many threads that have shown that in the
right hands and with the right recipe a crockpot can produce good
food. Hardly anyone doubts that.

What are dissed are the bad cooks who forget basic principles just
because they use a crockpot. So they produce bland mush and brag
about how convenient it is. What are dissed are the multitude of
recipes which pay no attention to the different cooking times that
different components should get. What are dissed are people who say
flat out wrong things like,
" Browning of meat is generally to seal in juices when a high heat
is used. Since crockpots
generally 'steam infuse' meats, it's redundant with most recipies to
do that. "
>
> Crockpots were all the rage in the late 70's and early 1980's but finding
> ones with removable liners were hard so many put them at the side after one
> or 2 uses and ignored them ever after. Although some here know how to use
> them to good effect, this is not a commonality of the group.

Also discussed here at some length has been that crockpot design
changed to make them operate at higher temperature. Real cooks
noticed and fretted and compensated where possible, and discarded
previously successful recipes where it wasn't possible.

There are some here who have posted convincingly about how to get good
results from this appliance. The person who wrote the above quote is
not convincing. -aem

aem wrote:
>
>>> All I wondered was how they could denegate such a great product as the
>>> crockpot when they don't even own one.
>> Lots of reasons but mostly lack of knowledge.
>
> Not so. There have been many many threads that have shown that in the
> right hands and with the right recipe a crockpot can produce good
> food. Hardly anyone doubts that.


I know lots of people who can cook lots of different ways. I admit to
not owning a slow cooker. I have never seen any reason to get one. I
have never had anything cooked in a slow cooker that could not have been
cooked on a stove or in an oven. I don't see much point in spending
money on an appliance and having to store it somewhere if it takes
special procedures to be used right.



> What are dissed are the bad cooks who forget basic principles just
> because they use a crockpot. So they produce bland mush and brag
> about how convenient it is. What are dissed are the multitude of
> recipes which pay no attention to the different cooking times that
> different components should get. What are dissed are people who say
> flat out wrong things like,
> " Browning of meat is generally to seal in juices when a high heat
> is used. Since crockpots
> generally 'steam infuse' meats, it's redundant with most recipies to
> do that. "


I was curious about that comment, When I Googled "steam infuse" I got
sites that talked about hair. When I added "cooking" to the the search
parameter I got a site that talked about steam infusion with pressure
cookers, not slow cookers...... slow cooking, low heat... no steam.


> There are some here who have posted convincingly about how to get good
> results from this appliance. The person who wrote the above quote is
> not convincing.

The slow cooker food I have had sure hasn't impressed me.

aem wrote:

> On Aug 9, 4:15 pm, "cshenk" wrote:
>
> >"Stu" wrote
> >....
> >
> >>All I wondered was how they could denegate such a great product as the
> >>crockpot when they don't even own one.
> >
> >Lots of reasons but mostly lack of knowledge.
>
>
> Not so. There have been many many threads that have shown that in the
> right hands and with the right recipe a crockpot can produce good
> food. Hardly anyone doubts that.
>
> What are dissed are the bad cooks who forget basic principles just
> because they use a crockpot.


Or that a lack of enthusiasm does not necessarily imply a lack of knowledge.
--
JL

aem wrote:

> Also discussed here at some length has been that crockpot design
> changed to make them operate at higher temperature. Real cooks
> noticed and fretted and compensated where possible, and discarded
> previously successful recipes where it wasn't possible.

That's the main problem I have with crockpots today. Even on the low
setting, it's still hot enough to boil water. I find that unacceptable for
most slow-cooked dishes. My big electric frying pan is the slow cooker of
choice nowadays because it's got a continuously-variable temperature
control.

Bob

"cshenk" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> "Stu" wrote
>> "cshenk" wrote:
>
>>> Stu, most here don't even own a crockpot or if they did, never learned
>>> to>>> use it *right*. It's like dissing a cast iron pan because it can
>>> rust if
>>> you don't know what you are doing.
>
>>>I got my first one in 1977 and learned how to use it properly over
>>>the>>>decades.
>
You learned to make food to your taste in it. Admit that you prefer Asian
effects, where browning is not so important?

>> All I wondered was how they could denegate such a great product as the>>
>> crockpot when they don't even own one.
>
> Lots of reasons but mostly lack of knowledge.

I had a crockpot for many years because my life
was so busy I needed to be able to turn my back on the cooking sometimes. I
successfully made any number of things in it, but overall, when it came time
to move I realized there was nothing I could do in it that I couldn't do
without it, and I didn't move it.

Some of us do not have them not because of ignorance, but because we don't
like what they make well enough. It's always wet cooking and sometimes just
too wet.

On Aug 10, 3:10*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "cshenk" > ha scritto nel messaggio> "Stu" wrote
> >> "cshenk" wrote:
>
> >>> Stu, most here don't even own a crockpot or if they did, never learned
> >>> to>>> use it *right*. *It's like dissing a cast iron pan because it can
> >>> rust if
> >>> you don't know what you are doing.
>
> >>>I got my first one in 1977 and learned how to use it properly over
> >>>the>>>decades.
>
> You learned to make food to your taste in it. *Admit that you prefer Asian
> effects, where browning is not so important?
>
> >> All I wondered was how they could denegate such a great product as the>>
> >> crockpot when they don't even own one.
>
> > Lots of reasons but mostly lack of knowledge.
>
> I had a crockpot for many years because my life
> was so busy I needed to be able to turn my back on the cooking sometimes. *I
> successfully made any number of things in it, but overall, when it came time
> to move I realized there was nothing I could do in it that I couldn't do
> without it, and I didn't move it.
>
> Some of us do not have them not because of ignorance, but because we don't
> like what they make well enough. *It's always wet cooking and sometimes just
> too wet.

Agreed. While I like a good braise as well as anybody, I don't like
them all
that often. And, really, it's usually cool weather when I crave
braised food,
and I generally use the oven for it.

I have a slow cooker, and use it about once a year. The results are
satisfactory, but not life-changing. I store it in the basement.

The gas grill, however, sees year-round use (except when it's below 20
F
or too windy).

Cindy Hamilton

Cindy Hamilton > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> I have a slow cooker, and use it about once a year. The results are
> satisfactory, but not life-changing. I store it in the basement.
>
> The gas grill, however, sees year-round use (except when it's below
> 20F or too windy).

I'm just the opposite. My crockpot/slow-cooker sees year-round use whereas
the Webers sees significantly less use. I can make more enjoyable meals
using the crockpot than the Weber at significantly less discomfort to me --
and living in the PRC (People's [DemoKratic] Republic of California),
temperatures do not have to drop below 32°F for us serfs^WCitizens to be
looking for the next Ice Age.

The Ranger

I take mine to pot lucks and that's about it. I like the Nesco much more for cooking as I can put a shoulder roast and a chicken in there at 175 degrees and in several hours, it will be falling apart. Very little liquid. I have though, made pork and kraut in the crock that turned out well. Not the most exciting appliance, but I found its popularity a nice answer to the previously deified microwave. Yuck!

On Aug 10, 10:04*am, "The Ranger" > wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton > wrote in message
>
> ...
> [snip]
>
> > I have a slow cooker, and use it about once a year. *The results are
> > satisfactory, but not life-changing. *I store it in the basement.
>
> > The gas grill, however, sees year-round use (except when it's below
> > 20F or too windy).
>
> I'm just the opposite. My crockpot/slow-cooker sees year-round use whereas
> the Webers sees significantly less use. I can make more enjoyable meals
> using the crockpot than the Weber at significantly less discomfort to me -- *
> and living in the PRC (People's [DemoKratic] Republic of California),
> temperatures do not have to drop below 32°F for us serfs^WCitizens to be
> looking for the next Ice Age.

Everybody is different. (My rule of thumb for when not to grill
applies
to our outdoor hot tub, too. Once in a while he can coax me out there
on a perfectly calm 10 F day, but we hardly ever have those.)

(Notice how I refrained from saying what wimps Californians are.
OTOH,
my air-conditioning is cranked up most of the summer because I hate
being over 70 F. I'm a wimp, only in the other direction.)

I'd like to live someplace that doesn't get over 80 F (and 50% RH) in
the
summer, but has real fall, winter, and spring. I wouldn't even
tolerate 80,
but I like homegrown tomatoes.

Cindy

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 10:55:07 -0500, Stu wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 11:31:55 -0400, blake murphy
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:34:02 -0700, <RJ> wrote:
>>
>>> I've always been puzzled that so many crock recipes do not
>>> call for browning the meat before putting it in the pot.
>>>
>>> I've tried it a few times, and somehow, the cooked meat
>>> seems "unfinished".....
>>>
>>> And yet these are books supplied by the crock manufacturer.
>>> ( you'd think they know what they're doing )
>>>
>>> ???
>>
>>for some, the appeal of the crockpot is they can dump crap into it in the
>>morning and come home to a meal. browning the meat just complicates things
>>for them.
>>
>>your pal,
>>blake
>
> Obviously you don't have a job or kids in lessons and sports. The
> crockpot is a life saver for many families.

maybe i shouldn't have used the word 'crap.' and yes, i don't have
obligations that make unattended cooking something worth pursuing, but i
understand those who do.

blake

On 8/9/2010 6:14 PM, cshenk wrote:
> "Stu" wrote
>
>> Obviously you don't have a job or kids in lessons and sports. The
>> crockpot is a life saver for many families.
>
> Stu, most here don't even own a crockpot or if they did, never learned
> to use it *right*. It's like dissing a cast iron pan because it can rust
> if you don't know what you are doing.
>
> I got my first one in 1977 and learned how to use it properly over the
> decades.

A problem is that a 1977 crockpot is old enough that it still works like
a crockpot, before the damned government stuck their noses in it and
decided to save us from ourselves.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:14:10 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> On 8/9/2010 6:14 PM, cshenk wrote:
>> "Stu" wrote
>>
>>> Obviously you don't have a job or kids in lessons and sports. The
>>> crockpot is a life saver for many families.
>>
>> Stu, most here don't even own a crockpot or if they did, never learned
>> to use it *right*. It's like dissing a cast iron pan because it can rust
>> if you don't know what you are doing.
>>
>> I got my first one in 1977 and learned how to use it properly over the
>> decades.
>
> A problem is that a 1977 crockpot is old enough that it still works like
> a crockpot, before the damned government stuck their noses in it and
> decided to save us from ourselves.

in what way did the government stick its nose in?

your pal,
blake