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The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
blake murphy wrote:
> i went to a trade school before getting my programmer gig. it's > unclear how much that had to do with my hiring, though - they > (arlington co., va, government) seemed to use IBM's programming > aptitude test as their screening device at that time. that was in > the 80's. I had to take that test to get into programming school, having graduated from there was good enough to get me employed. nancy |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 08:10:03 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote: >On Aug 21, 5:49*am, brooklyn1 > wrote: > >> The talent still needs to be present initially... what you described >> is grooming and practice... you say it yourself, "if you are good"... >> athletes are born, not made. * You can't just wake up one morning and >> decide you're going to be a chef... anyone can attend a culinary >> school, they'll be very happy to take their money, but I'll bet 99% of >> those who graduate will never earn a living in the food industry... >> anyone with the dollars can buy a culinary degree. *Most notable >> "chef's" get their degree after they become notable, looks good on >> their bio... *Julia Child is a good case in point... she was never >> much of a cook, she was a media celebrity because she was first. >> Professional cooking is nothing like the glamorized rendition seen on >> TV... the real deal is hard dirty work, with long hours, zero job >> security, and doesn't pay very much. > >But first she earned a certificate from the Cordon Bleu. Child was born in 1912 and didn't become interested in food/cooking, French cusine in particular, until about 1950, due to her husband locating to France. Julia Child was never much of a cook, she became a TV celebrity by having the first cooking show (mostly her husband's influence) and capitalized on that. I remember watching her first cooking shows, she didn't have a clue, she was more like the Clarabel of cooking... she had a good personality that appealed to the then typical stereotypical housewives and the time was ripe for a cooking show, but mostly she was a good business woman who knew how to market herself. The same is true of many of the TV food personalities, but Julia is most notable because she was first, she was smart, and had a very appropriate TV personality for the food venue at that time, not because she was a great cook. There were interviews where she admitted to not being a good cook. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
"Dan Goodman" wrote:
>Nancy Young wrote: >> Dan Goodman wrote: >> > Mr. Bill wrote: >> >> > > No...that wasn't my point. There isn't a "football school" to >> > > attend....you don't get a degree in "football". You have >> > > the talent before hand. A talent in any profession will not >> > > become better just because you have attended "Blah Blah >> > > University". >> > >> > Talent won't, but skill might. And sometimes it might be the >> > right kind of skill. (There are people who seriously contend >> > that an MBA is worse than useless.) >> >> Given than many schools don't have accredited MBA programs, >> it's not surprising. They crank out the degrees, but do the >> recipients have the skills you expect, who knows. In the end it's >> the persons talent in whatever that matters. nancy > >Sorry for not being clearer: There are people who say that >accredited MBA programs -- including those at the top-rated business >schools -- are worse than useless. Not that they don't teach skills, >but that some of the methods taught are wrong and much of what's >taught about using the rest is wrong. You missed the entire point... teaching advanced skills to someone who doesn't possess talent is a total waste... the MBA syllabus is very useful for those with natural business sense... those courses fill the business person's tool box with more advanced business decision making tools. I can't bowl, I get more gutter balls than anyone else, I've tried but I can't hit the pins (and I have the biggest balls). Building me my own bowling alley would be as much of a waste as sending you to school for an MBA. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Aug 20, 4:17*pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2010-08-20, Giusi > wrote: > > > slave these days as an apprentice for 10 years before they actually cook > > anything? > > Nonsense. * > > The current head chef of Brasserie Les Halles, Tony Bourdain's former > job, was a Mexican immigrant who started at the bottom, there, and > worked up to exectutive chef in only 8 yrs. *Tony profiled him on one > episode of his show. > > On the other hand, I worked with an aspiring cook who was already a > line cook for a former Iron Chef America contestant and that chef, his > boss, recommended the young man go to Johnson and Wales, a rather > pricey school and the chef's former school. *I thought that was pretty > weird advice, but the last I heard, the young cook left cooking in the > chef's restaurant is now at J&W. *So obviously, some chefs have > different hiring/training criteria. > > nb J&W is not one of the commercial schools. I've seen their graduates go on to some rather well known places (one worked in the World Trade Center restaurant. Don't know if he'd moved on before 2001. he was a FOAF) A librarian friend works for the Cordon Bleu school in Boston (No relation to the one in France), a for-profit school, and while she was excited to get the job, she's been disturbed by the caliber of the students they accept. If you're a good student with a go-getter attitude, any school can teach you the basics of a trade that you can then build on as you work in the trade, but you'll have a hard time paying back those private college sized loans on the starting wages you'll earn. maxine in ri |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 07:32:58 -0700 (PDT), "critters & me in azusa, ca"
> wrote: >On Aug 20, 7:14*pm, brooklyn1 > wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 01:04:49 GMT, notbob > wrote: >> >On 2010-08-21, Ema Nymton > wrote: >> >> >> It is just like landscape design or hairstyling....... >> >> >On what planet can you get a hairstyling license without schooling? >> >> >nb >> >> In the US one can get a cosmotologist/hairdresser license by being >> sponsored by a shop owner, passing a simple test, *and paying the fee. >> It's more difficult to get a motor vehical operator's license. *I > > >not here in california. cosmetology students need 1500 hours of of >combined classroom and apprentice work at the school of choice, then >take a state cosmetology licensing exam. > >harriet & critters Seems each state has different requirements. CA appears to be more stringent than others, they don't even recognize reciprocity. Seems very political to me to make becoming a hair dresser so costly. I know that in NY one can enrol in a cosmotology school but many of the larger salons are licenced to train, and they will aid in obtaining ones license. NY also accepts reciprocity, so that many people, especially from other countries can continue working rather than go on the dole... many Asians are excellent cosmotologists but can't read or write English, why should that prevent them from earning a living out in the open and instead force them to operate out of a basement... no one needs to be literate to do hair and nails. An apprentice program with paid on the job training is exctly what the US needs in all vocations to help people become gainfully employed... it's plain silly to politicize employment by forcing the creation of unnecessary schools, making those schools wealthy, and filling the political coffers that pay for more bureaucrats. Those who need employment the most and are very capabable are being discriminated against through political blackmailing. In CA you practically need a Phd to paint nails but need no training whatsoever to prepare food for public consumption. http://www.beautyschoolsdirectory.com/faq/state_req.php |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 2010-08-21, brooklyn1 > wrote:
> against through political blackmailing. In CA you practically need a > Phd to paint nails but need no training whatsoever to prepare food for > public consumption. Actually, hairdressing in CA is stringent, but not so for a manicurist, one point. My daughter did the manicure thing at a long established cosmotology school. Despite formal schooling being available, no state license was necessary, though most places did not hire you unless you had one. Later, the Vietnamese who immigrated after the war discovered this and literally took over the industry, all Viet nail shops undercutting almost everyone else out of the business by the late 80s. This later ended up being a major problem as the hordes of Viet shops apparently had cut costs by never changing antiseptic soak baths or whatever they use and major outbreaks of scarring infections and flesh eating whatever became common news. Also, no expense on ventilation, so walking into a Viet nail shop was like entering the gas mask station on an Army obstacle course. CA may have severly cracked down on the industry, since then. I hope so, as it had become quite the scandal at one point. nb |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
"J. Clarke" wrote:
> >Then we have doctors, who after completing many years of university, >then start their apprenticeship. No, they complete an internship. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Aug 21, 9:30*am, brooklyn1 > wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 08:10:03 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888 > > > > > wrote: > >On Aug 21, 5:49*am, brooklyn1 > wrote: > > >> The talent still needs to be present initially... what you described > >> is grooming and practice... you say it yourself, "if you are good"... > >> athletes are born, not made. * You can't just wake up one morning and > >> decide you're going to be a chef... anyone can attend a culinary > >> school, they'll be very happy to take their money, but I'll bet 99% of > >> those who graduate will never earn a living in the food industry... > >> anyone with the dollars can buy a culinary degree. *Most notable > >> "chef's" get their degree after they become notable, looks good on > >> their bio... *Julia Child is a good case in point... she was never > >> much of a cook, she was a media celebrity because she was first. > >> Professional cooking is nothing like the glamorized rendition seen on > >> TV... the real deal is hard dirty work, with long hours, zero job > >> security, and doesn't pay very much. > > >But first she earned a certificate from the Cordon Bleu. > > Child was born in 1912 and didn't become interested in food/cooking, > French cusine in particular, until about 1950, due to her husband > locating to France. *Julia Child was never much of a cook, she became > a TV celebrity by having the first cooking show (mostly her husband's > influence) and capitalized on that. The "first" cooking show? WBKB Channel 7 in Chicago ran "Cooking with Francois Pope" starting in 1951. The show went off the air in 1962, the year before Julia Child first went on the air. The Popes had been teaching people how to cook since the 20s. >*I remember watching her first > cooking shows, she didn't have a clue, she was more like the Clarabel > of cooking... she had a good personality that appealed to the then > typical stereotypical housewives and the time was ripe for a cooking > show, but mostly she was a good business woman who knew how to market > herself. *The same is true of many of the TV food personalities, but > Julia is most notable because she was first, she was smart, and had a > very appropriate TV personality for the food venue at that time, not > because she was a great cook. *There were interviews where she > admitted to not being a good cook. Big difference between being a good cook and a great cook. Julia Child was a good cook. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 8/21/2010 10:58 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 8/21/2010 7:22 AM, George wrote: >> On 8/20/2010 10:14 PM, brooklyn1 wrote: >>> On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 01:04:49 GMT, > wrote: >>> >>>> On 2010-08-21, Ema > wrote: >>>> >>>>> It is just like landscape design or hairstyling....... >>>> >>>> On what planet can you get a hairstyling license without schooling? >>>> >>>> nb >>> >>> In the US one can get a cosmotologist/hairdresser license by being >>> sponsored by a shop owner, passing a simple test, and paying the fee. >> >> >> But that is completely incorrect as usual. A good friend and a relative >> own businesses that hire licensed staff. Both extensive training and an >> extensive exam are the norm. Here are the requirements in PA just to be >> able to take the comprehensive exam: >> >> >> § 7.32d. Requirements for cosmetologist examination. >> >> (a) An applicant for the cosmetologist examination who holds no limited >> licenses shall: >> >> (1) Be 16 years of age or older. >> >> (2) Except as provided in subsection (b), have done one of the following: >> >> (i) Completed a 10th grade education or its equivalent. >> >> (ii) Received training from or under the auspices of the Office of >> Vocational Rehabilitation in the Department of Labor and Industry. >> >> (3) Have done one of the following: >> >> (i) Completed a minimum of 1,250 hours of instruction in cosmetology, >> within a period of not less than 8 consecutive months, as a day-time >> student in a licensed school of cosmetology. >> >> (ii) Completed a minimum of 1,250 hours of instruction in cosmetology, >> within a period of not less than 15 consecutive months, as a night-time >> student in a licensed school of cosmetology. >> >> (iii) Completed 2,000 hours of training in a Board-approved cosmetology >> apprentice program. > > You have to remember that these things vary by state. Wasn't too long > ago that in one state one could become a lawyer by deciding one day "I > want to be a lawyer", walking in off the street the day of the bar exam, > and passing the exam. > Sure but the declaration was "in the US" and was in the present tense. I think what you described about just walking in and taking any sort of test such as the bar exam went away some time ago. >>> It's more difficult to get a motor vehical operator's license. It's a >>> lot more difficult to obtain a barber's license... nowadays there are >>> very few licensed barbers. Unfortunately one doesn't need any kind of >>> documentation to prepare food commercially... most people who prepare >>> our food are illiterate... the business owners are educated and need >>> permits but the food workers don't need to be able to read and write >>> and most cannot. The typical cook's job is extremely repetative, it's >>> best that they are not educated. >>> >>> >> > |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 2010-08-21, Nancy Young > wrote:
> I had to take that test to get into programming school, having > graduated from there was good enough to get me employed. Be grateful you have an IT job. My brewing mentor was in IT for high security govt gigs for decades, pulling down six figure incomes. When he lost his last good gig, took him 2 yrs to find another, still hadda move to Nosepick NM and earns half of what he did, for the same work. Silicon Valley is still a ghost town, regardless of what others may say, and I've seen the hi-tech sector in Denver. Lotta really BIG buildings totally devoid of life. nb |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 2010-08-20, Julian Vrieslander > wrote:
> Thinking of going to culinary school? Read this first. When reading this thread, recalled noticing a Frontline episode on for-profit schools. I watched it awhile ago. Damn scary stuff! http://video.pbs.org/video/1485280975/# The really scary parallel I noticed was the federal student loan situation. "This debt is almost impossible to escape. [...] If you default on a federal student loan, you will be hounded for life. [...] It is the most collectable kind of debt there is. It is non-dischargable in bankruptcy, they will garnish your wages, they will intercept your tax refunds, they will sue you in court, you become ineligible for federal employment or any other kind of federal benefit, and many states are now piggy-backing those prohibitions...." The piece went on to say this federal student loan debt is beginning to become huge, as in 750 BILLION $$!! It's beginning to become the same looming specter as the bank bailouts. Oh swell, another one. You nurses here should be appalled at what it was giving $30K 12 mos nursing licenses for. The poor girls couldn't get jobs cuz they had no real hospital time. One nurse said the psychiatric rotation consisted of a weekend at a Scientology site!! Another said the only pediatric rotation was a day care center!! I hope the girls sue! Now, sub all these scams off to the culinary schools that charge $40-60K fer 2 yrs and the grad can only get a job starting at min wage cuz (s)he is competing with illegal immigrant or min wage labor. Those loans keep growing! One student said her original $60K loan was now $100K. Gawd, I'm glad I'm old! ;) nb |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
notbob wrote:
> On 2010-08-21, Nancy Young > wrote: > >> I had to take that test to get into programming school, having >> graduated from there was good enough to get me employed. > > Be grateful you have an IT job. Make that Had. I did my time. > My brewing mentor was in IT for high > security govt gigs for decades, pulling down six figure incomes. When > he lost his last good gig, took him 2 yrs to find another, still hadda > move to Nosepick NM and earns half of what he did, for the same work. Luckily he saved all those years and he doesn't really have to worry. > Silicon Valley is still a ghost town, regardless of what others may > say, and I've seen the hi-tech sector in Denver. Lotta really BIG > buildings totally devoid of life. Sucks. It really does. nancy |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
news:W4Zbo.104707$vL2.81840@hurricane... > notbob wrote: >> On 2010-08-21, Nancy Young > wrote: >> >>> I had to take that test to get into programming school, having >>> graduated from there was good enough to get me employed. >> >> Be grateful you have an IT job. > > Make that Had. I did my time. Did your time. lol I think I can agree with that. Still doing mine. Unfortunately a lot of what I do in addition to tech work is project management. Tech project management. Do you know how hard it is to "manage" techies on a project? They can't care less about schedules and action items and status reports. Risks? Every job is a risk with the cutbacks in staff and funding. Managing a budget is hardly possible with the requirements. It's crazy. I'd like to say "I did my time" right about now. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
Cheryl wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote >> notbob wrote: >>> Be grateful you have an IT job. >> >> Make that Had. I did my time. > > Did your time. lol I think I can agree with that. Still doing mine. It used to be a lot more fun, I bet. Was for me. > Unfortunately a lot of what I do in addition to tech work is project > management. Tech project management. Do you know how hard it is to > "manage" techies on a project? Yes. (laughing) I do. > They can't care less about schedules and action items and status reports. I did care about the schedule, because mine were federal/state mandated for the most part. Unfortunately, expecting me to draw up action plans and write status reports sometimes interfered with my ability to meet a schedule working normal hours. > Risks? Every job is a risk > with the cutbacks in staff and funding. Managing a budget is hardly > possible with the requirements. It's crazy. I'd like to say "I did > my time" right about now. I get that, it's tough. It was going on for years while I was still working, too. By the time we were bought out, I was fried. I was very lucky to be able to walk away. All I can say is develop an attitude where they can't make your life too miserable. nancy |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
In article >,
notbob > wrote: > On 2010-08-20, Julian Vrieslander > wrote: > > Thinking of going to culinary school? Read this first. > > When reading this thread, recalled noticing a Frontline episode on > for-profit schools. I watched it awhile ago. Damn scary stuff! > > http://video.pbs.org/video/1485280975/# > > The really scary parallel I noticed was the federal student loan situation. > > "This debt is almost impossible to escape. [...] If you default on a > federal student loan, you will be hounded for life. [...] It is the > most collectable kind of debt there is. It is non-dischargable in > bankruptcy, they will garnish your wages, they will intercept your tax > refunds, they will sue you in court, you become ineligible for federal > employment or any other kind of federal benefit, and many states are > now piggy-backing those prohibitions...." > > The piece went on to say this federal student loan debt is beginning > to become huge, as in 750 BILLION $$!! It's beginning to become the > same looming specter as the bank bailouts. Oh swell, another one. This was the part of the article that was most disturbing to me. The author also discovered that many of the culinary school loans were being marketed by financial entities associated with Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street megacorps. The same ones who made monster profits from mortgages sold to buyers who had no realistic chance to repay them, and then sticking taxpayers with the bill when the loans went into default. They are apparently still at this game. Of course, there are some politicians in the US who think that these problems are easily solved. All we have to do is reduce the regulations on these scoundrels and give them more tax breaks. -- Julian Vrieslander |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 2010-08-22, Cheryl > wrote:
> Did your time. lol I think I can agree with that. I know I do, as I've done mine and am now retired. Now if I can just avoid any major med probs long enough to enjoy it. ;) nb |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
Nancy Young wrote:
> notbob wrote: >> My brewing mentor was in IT for high >> security govt gigs for decades, pulling down six figure incomes. >> When he lost his last good gig, took him 2 yrs to find another, >> still hadda move to Nosepick NM and earns half of what he did, for >> the same work. > > Luckily he saved all those years and he doesn't really have to worry. In retrospect I should have made some note that I was being sarcastic, as so many people lost their savings in the stock market. I wasn't ranking on the guy. nancy |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 2010-08-22, Julian Vrieslander > wrote:
> marketed by financial entities associated with Goldman Sachs and other > Wall Street megacorps. The same ones who made monster profits from > mortgages sold to buyers who had no realistic chance to repay them, and > then sticking taxpayers with the bill when the loans went into default. > They are apparently still at this game. It's precisely the same game and the outcome will also be the same. nb |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
news:Wc%bo.106572$KP3.64664@hurricane... > Nancy Young wrote: >> notbob wrote: > >>> My brewing mentor was in IT for high >>> security govt gigs for decades, pulling down six figure incomes. When he >>> lost his last good gig, took him 2 yrs to find another, >>> still hadda move to Nosepick NM and earns half of what he did, for >>> the same work. >> >> Luckily he saved all those years and he doesn't really have to worry. > > In retrospect I should have made some note that I was being > sarcastic, as so many people lost their savings in the stock > market. I wasn't ranking on the guy. Yeah, I had to roll over my retirement funds and it lost half it's value the first year after that. Luckily (or not, for me) I have many years until retirement for it to catch up. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
"brooklyn1" > wrote > > Seems each state has different requirements. CA appears to be more > stringent than others, they don't even recognize reciprocity. Seems > very political to me to make becoming a hair dresser so costly. > > I know that in NY one can enrol in a cosmotology school but many of > the larger salons are licenced to train, and they will aid in > obtaining ones license. There was a battle here in CT between hairdressers and barbers since the requirements are vastly different even though much of what they do is the same. I know a lady that was a hairdresser in MA and had her own shop for 10+ years. Very successful. She moved to Florida and had to pass their test. She failed twice. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 00:49:52 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote: > >"brooklyn1" > wrote > >> >> Seems each state has different requirements. CA appears to be more >> stringent than others, they don't even recognize reciprocity. Seems >> very political to me to make becoming a hair dresser so costly. >> >> I know that in NY one can enrol in a cosmotology school but many of >> the larger salons are licenced to train, and they will aid in >> obtaining ones license. > >There was a battle here in CT between hairdressers and barbers since the >requirements are vastly different even though much of what they do is the >same. > >I know a lady that was a hairdresser in MA and had her own shop for 10+ >years. Very successful. She moved to Florida and had to pass their test. >She failed twice. In NY a barber/tonsorial license is much more difficult to obtain, and no way is a hairdresser a barber. Barbers are permitted to use a straight razor. Barbers are permitted to shave. Barbers are also permitted to perform many of the services of a dermatologist; remove ingrown hair, lance boils, etc. Not too long ago barbers were permiited to extract teeth/bullets, and stitch up wounds. In comparison a hairdresser is little more than a glorified shampooist... without their electric clippers they couldn't give a haircut. The average dog groomer is more skilled than the typical hairdresser. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:58:28 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 8/21/2010 7:22 AM, George wrote: >> >> But that is completely incorrect as usual. A good friend and a relative >> own businesses that hire licensed staff. Both extensive training and an >> extensive exam are the norm. Here are the requirements in PA just to be >> able to take the comprehensive exam: >> >> >> § 7.32d. Requirements for cosmetologist examination. <snip> > > You have to remember that these things vary by state. Wasn't too long > ago that in one state one could become a lawyer by deciding one day "I > want to be a lawyer", walking in off the street the day of the bar exam, > and passing the exam. that's said to be abe lincoln's path to becoming a lawyer: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln#Early_career_and_military_service> 'reading the law' and then taking the bar exam used to be quite common. judging from some of the numbskulls emerging from law schools today, i'm not so sure it was a bad system. your pal, blake |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 12:30:05 -0400, brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 08:10:03 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888 > > wrote: > >>On Aug 21, 5:49*am, brooklyn1 > wrote: >> >>> The talent still needs to be present initially... what you described >>> is grooming and practice... you say it yourself, "if you are good"... >>> athletes are born, not made. * You can't just wake up one morning and >>> decide you're going to be a chef... anyone can attend a culinary >>> school, they'll be very happy to take their money, but I'll bet 99% of >>> those who graduate will never earn a living in the food industry... >>> anyone with the dollars can buy a culinary degree. *Most notable >>> "chef's" get their degree after they become notable, looks good on >>> their bio... *Julia Child is a good case in point... she was never >>> much of a cook, she was a media celebrity because she was first. >>> Professional cooking is nothing like the glamorized rendition seen on >>> TV... the real deal is hard dirty work, with long hours, zero job >>> security, and doesn't pay very much. >> >>But first she earned a certificate from the Cordon Bleu. > > Child was born in 1912 and didn't become interested in food/cooking, > French cusine in particular, until about 1950, due to her husband > locating to France. Julia Child was never much of a cook, she became > a TV celebrity by having the first cooking show (mostly her husband's > influence) and capitalized on that. I remember watching her first > cooking shows, she didn't have a clue, she was more like the Clarabel > of cooking... she had a good personality that appealed to the then > typical stereotypical housewives and the time was ripe for a cooking > show, but mostly she was a good business woman who knew how to market > herself. The same is true of many of the TV food personalities, but > Julia is most notable because she was first, she was smart, and had a > very appropriate TV personality for the food venue at that time, not > because she was a great cook. There were interviews where she > admitted to not being a good cook. navy cooks of course make her look sick. blake |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 12:20:27 -0400, Nancy Young wrote:
> blake murphy wrote: > >> i went to a trade school before getting my programmer gig. it's >> unclear how much that had to do with my hiring, though - they >> (arlington co., va, government) seemed to use IBM's programming >> aptitude test as their screening device at that time. that was in >> the 80's. > > I had to take that test to get into programming school, having > graduated from there was good enough to get me employed. > > nancy back the there seemed to be a lot of english majors and musicians kinda falling into it. an honest living for a change. your pal, blake |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 18:13:42 -0700, Julian Vrieslander wrote:
> In article >, > notbob > wrote: > >> On 2010-08-20, Julian Vrieslander > wrote: >>> Thinking of going to culinary school? Read this first. >> >> When reading this thread, recalled noticing a Frontline episode on >> for-profit schools. I watched it awhile ago. Damn scary stuff! >> >> http://video.pbs.org/video/1485280975/# >> >> The really scary parallel I noticed was the federal student loan situation. >> >> "This debt is almost impossible to escape. [...] If you default on a >> federal student loan, you will be hounded for life. [...] It is the >> most collectable kind of debt there is. It is non-dischargable in >> bankruptcy, they will garnish your wages, they will intercept your tax >> refunds, they will sue you in court, you become ineligible for federal >> employment or any other kind of federal benefit, and many states are >> now piggy-backing those prohibitions...." >> >> The piece went on to say this federal student loan debt is beginning >> to become huge, as in 750 BILLION $$!! It's beginning to become the >> same looming specter as the bank bailouts. Oh swell, another one. > > This was the part of the article that was most disturbing to me. The > author also discovered that many of the culinary school loans were being > marketed by financial entities associated with Goldman Sachs and other > Wall Street megacorps. The same ones who made monster profits from > mortgages sold to buyers who had no realistic chance to repay them, and > then sticking taxpayers with the bill when the loans went into default. > > They are apparently still at this game. Of course, there are some > politicians in the US who think that these problems are easily solved. > All we have to do is reduce the regulations on these scoundrels and give > them more tax breaks. for republicans, tax cuts are the universal solvent. times are good? then the government doesn't need the money. times are bad? then people need to keep more of their income. it's a reverse catch -22. your pal, milo |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
"blake murphy" > wrote > for republicans, tax cuts are the universal solvent. times are good? > then > the government doesn't need the money. times are bad? then people need > to > keep more of their income. > > it's a reverse catch -22. > > your pal, > milo The government always needs money. More and more of it. I've not verified what is below but I've seen similar numbers in the past. From another newsgroup: A postage stamp in year 1950 was 3 cents; in year 2008, it costs 42 cents (1,400% inflation = 4.74% per year for 58 consecutive years). A gallon of 90 Octane full-service gasoline cost 25 cents in 1950; as of AUG 2008 it costs about $3.84 (1,536% inflation = 4.91% per year for 58 consecutive years). A house in 1959 cost $14,100; as of AUG-2008, the median home price is $213,000 (1,511% inflation = 4.88% per year for 58 consecutive years). A dental crown in year 1990 cost $200; as of AUG-2008, it costs $1,100 (550% inflation = 11.3% per year for 18 consecutive years). Monthly government Medicare insurance premiums paid by seniors was $5.30 in 1970; as of 2008, it is $96.40 (1,819% inflation = 11.34% per year for 28 consecutive years; up 70% in the past 5 years); Several generations ago a person worked 1.4 months per year to pay for government; as of 2008, the average person works 5 months per year to pay taxes; In the past, one wage-earner families lived well and built savings with minimal debt, many paying off their home and college, and educating children without loans. How about today? Based on that, what do you really think the real inflation rate is ? What ever it is, it is too high, and it is likely to get worse. Already, inflation has been positive for 52 consecutive years (since year 1956): U.S. nation-wide debt has grown from 100% of GDP in year 1956 to 420% of GDP in year 2009, and money is being created as debt at a ratio of 9-to-1 of debt-to-reserves, creating a situation where 90%-to-95% of all money in existence exists as debt. Where will the money come from to merely pay the interest on that debt, when that money does not yet exist? |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Aug 22, 1:21*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 12:20:27 -0400, Nancy Young wrote: > > blake murphy wrote: > > >> i went to a trade school before getting my programmer gig. *it's > >> unclear how much that had to do with my hiring, though - they > >> (arlington co., va, government) seemed to use IBM's programming > >> aptitude test as their screening device at that time. *that was in > >> the 80's. > > > I had to take that test to get into programming school, having > > graduated from there was good enough to get me employed. > > > nancy > > back the there seemed to be a lot of english majors and musicians kinda > falling into it. *an honest living for a change. > > your pal, > blake Wanna buy a B.A. in English? It's from a good Catholic university! Lynn in Fargo University of Mary 1973 |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT), Lynn from Fargo wrote:
> On Aug 22, 1:21*pm, blake murphy > wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 12:20:27 -0400, Nancy Young wrote: >>> blake murphy wrote: >> >>>> i went to a trade school before getting my programmer gig. *it's >>>> unclear how much that had to do with my hiring, though - they >>>> (arlington co., va, government) seemed to use IBM's programming >>>> aptitude test as their screening device at that time. *that was in >>>> the 80's. >> >>> I had to take that test to get into programming school, having >>> graduated from there was good enough to get me employed. >> >>> nancy >> >> back the there seemed to be a lot of english majors and musicians kinda >> falling into it. *an honest living for a change. >> >> your pal, >> blake > > Wanna buy a B.A. in English? It's from a good Catholic university! > Lynn in Fargo > University of Mary 1973 no thanks. i already have one collecting dust. your pal, blake |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > Based on that, what do you really think the real inflation rate is ? Whatever the rate really is it started longer ago than that and had specific points when it accelerated. The first change in the rate of dollar to gold was made by President Andrew Jackson. 1863 the US Mint stopped making half cents. They weren't worth spending any more. A year later the US Mint switched cents from the old size that was a bit larger than a quarter to the new size that's a bit larger than a dime. The reason was inflation had already happened. This caused almost no change in the rate of inflation. In 1934 the US Mint stopped making gold coins and the government pulled all it could out of circulation collecting as many as they could sending officers to banks. Same reason. At this point all of the gold is still there in the vault. In 1964 the US Mint stopped making silver coins and started pulling all that they could from circulation. Any coins transferred from banks to the federal reserve system are still filtered for silver ones. Same reason. The silver has since all been sold as bullion. In 1982 the US Mint switched the all copper cents (technically a bronze alloy) to zinc with a copper coating. I don't think they filter the 1982 and before cents as I still see a lot ot them. Same reason. If you tracked inflation since 1863 when they dropped the half cent because inflation had made it not worth carrying they would now drop all coins but the dollar. Yet folks say that dropping the cent would "cause" inflation. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
Dan Abel wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote: > >> If you tracked inflation since 1863 when they dropped the half cent >> because inflation had made it not worth carrying they would now drop all >> coins but the dollar. Yet folks say that dropping the cent would >> "cause" inflation. > > Seems pretty silly, doesn't it? It's been some years now, since I > noticed that little kids won't bother to bend over to pick up pennies. > They are so worthless that even small children find little use for them. I filter cents and nickels for date and keep the ones I think are interesting. Otherwise they go with all of the dimes into the jar that eventually gets emptied into the Coinstar machine. Quarters I keep until I have enough to get an expresso plus tip. I do filter them looking for territory ones. I have several P and D of each state but so far I have not collected all of the territory quaters. > What's the cheapest thing you can buy in a store, now? Some stores have quarter gum/candy machines. Otherwise thre's little under a dollar anywhere. Folks don't want to drop two digits from the currency. When Mexico did that they said its economy collapsed. But the reality is the reality. In the US it's time to drop two digits from the currency and punt on all of the coinage. Think of the experience in Canada when they stopped printing the dollar and went with the loonie - Folks hated it for under a year and then realized it was more convenient. |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
In article >,
Doug Freyburger > wrote: > Dan Abel wrote: > > Doug Freyburger > wrote: > > > >> If you tracked inflation since 1863 when they dropped the half cent > >> because inflation had made it not worth carrying they would now drop all > >> coins but the dollar. Yet folks say that dropping the cent would > >> "cause" inflation. > > > > Seems pretty silly, doesn't it? It's been some years now, since I > > noticed that little kids won't bother to bend over to pick up pennies. > > They are so worthless that even small children find little use for them. > > I filter cents and nickels for date and keep the ones I think are > interesting. Otherwise they go with all of the dimes into the jar that > eventually gets emptied into the Coinstar machine. Yup. Coins are so valuable here in the US that nobody will take them in bulk. You have to go to a machine that charges you 10% to get rid of them! -- Dan Abel Petaluma, California USA |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 2010-08-24, Dan Abel > wrote:
> bulk. You have to go to a machine that charges you 10% to get rid of > them! Uh, no... you don't. You can roll them up yourself and take them to your bank. I got tired of paying coinstar, specially since seeing the very first machine at 3% and then watching them climb up to 10%. Screw that. I takes me about 2 hours to roll up $70-80 in random change while watching tv. This sorting by hand and hand loading into a dirt cheap counting thingie and adding a paper wrap the bank hands out free. Not exactly rocket science or even remotely a chore. Plus, save $7-8 I would have lost if I jes sat there twiddling my thumbs. Hey, that's a sixer of good beer! ;) nb |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
On 8/24/2010 1:22 PM, notbob wrote:
> Uh, no... you don't. > > You can roll them up yourself and take them to your bank. I got tired > of paying coinstar, specially since seeing the very first machine at > 3% and then watching them climb up to 10%. Screw that. I takes me > about 2 hours to roll up $70-80 in random change while watching tv. > This sorting by hand and hand loading into a dirt cheap counting > thingie and adding a paper wrap the bank hands out free. Not exactly > rocket science or even remotely a chore. Plus, save $7-8 I would have > lost if I jes sat there twiddling my thumbs. Hey, that's a sixer of > good beer! ;) > > nb We take our coins to a local casino, they do not charge anything. Becca |
The scandal of $50k culinary degrees
Ema Nymton wrote:
> > We take our coins to a local casino, they do not charge anything. > > Becca I take mine to my local credit union..they don't charge anything to toss 'em into the coin sorting machine either. |
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