On Oct 12, 2:43*am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" >
wrote:
> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up hereabouts.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>
> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to charitable donations
> to whiskey as word spread Monday that they will have to wait until at least
> 2012 to see their Social Security checks increase.
> The government is expected to announce this week that more than 58 million
> Social Security recipients will go through a second straight year without an
> increase in monthly benefits. This year was the first without an increase
> since automatic adjustments for inflation started in 1975.
>
> /cnip - read the linked article/

I'll bet federal employees salaries are not frozen! Average $74K per
annum!
Shufflers and mufflers. Sit back and watch the wheels come off!

On Oct 12, 6:58*am, walt tonne > wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2:43*am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" >
> wrote:
>
> > Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up hereabouts.
>
> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>
> > Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to charitable donations
> > to whiskey as word spread Monday that they will have to wait until at least
> > 2012 to see their Social Security checks increase.
> > The government is expected to announce this week that more than 58 million
> > Social Security recipients will go through a second straight year without an
> > increase in monthly benefits. This year was the first without an increase
> > since automatic adjustments for inflation started in 1975.
>
> > /cnip - read the linked article/
>
> I'll bet federal employees salaries are not frozen! *Average $74K per
> annum!
> Shufflers and mufflers. Sit back and watch the wheels come off!


They get automatic cost of living adjustments, but with inflation not
exactly a problem right now, they're not going to see any huge
increases either.

Christopher wrote on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT):

> On Oct 12, 6:58 am, walt tonne > wrote:
>> On Oct 12, 2:43 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa"
>> > wrote:
>>
> >> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up
> >> hereabouts.
>>
> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>>
> >> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to
> >> charitable donations to whiskey as word spread Monday that
> >> they will have to wait until at least 2012 to see their
> >> Social Security checks increase.

There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Oct 12, 8:03*am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> *Christopher *wrote *on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT):
>
> > On Oct 12, 6:58 am, walt tonne > wrote:
> >> On Oct 12, 2:43 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa"
> >> > wrote:
>
> > >> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up
> > >> hereabouts.
>
> > >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no....
>
> > >> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to
> > >> charitable donations to whiskey as word spread Monday that
> > >> they will have to wait until at least 2012 to see their
> > >> Social Security checks increase.
>
> There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
> when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
> the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. Many expenses
like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. Also,
utilities continue to rise. OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). The CPI
is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
affecting seniors into account.

N.

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:

> Christopher wrote on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT):

> > >> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up
> > >> hereabouts.
> >>
> > >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
> >>
> > >> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to
> > >> charitable donations to whiskey as word spread Monday that
> > >> they will have to wait until at least 2012 to see their
> > >> Social Security checks increase.
>
> There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
> when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
> the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?

Very true, James. Certainly, people tend to focus on the things which
have increased in price, but many things have decreased, some quite
drastically.

Water rates (which I suspect are really sewer rates) are going up for
many people, because they were artificially low for a long time.

I don't know about the federal employees, but the state employees here
in California are hurting. Almost all of them are on furlough, a 10%
reduction in pay and days worked. The state has made massive cuts in
education funding, and has authorized a reduction of up to five
instructional and three non-instructional days for this year. These are
also furlough days, the employees (teachers, administrators and staff,
i.e. everybody) having extra days off, without pay. Many school
districts have taken advantage of this, as they can't balance their
budgets otherwise.

I'm a retired state employee, and I personally am doing OK. Although
recently retired employees are not getting a COLA (Cost of Living
Adjustment), since there has been no inflation, the computation is done
from date of retirement. There is a cap of 2% each year. Since my COLA
was much less than inflation the first few years of retirement, I'm
still eligible based on that.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article
>,
Nancy2 > wrote:

> On Oct 12, 8:03*am, "James Silverton" >
> wrote:

> > There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
> > when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
> > the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?

> Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
> the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
> medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. Many expenses
> like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. Also,
> utilities continue to rise. OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
> housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). The CPI
> is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
> affecting seniors into account.

Interesting. What utilities? I had read that a major reason for the
indexes (that COLAs are based on) going down was the drop in price for
heating oil. I don't use heating oil, and nobody that I know around
here does, so that was disappointing, but I know that a lot of people
spend a lot of money on that in cold climates.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 09:59:29 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>
> Interesting. What utilities? I had read that a major reason for the
> indexes (that COLAs are based on) going down was the drop in price for
> heating oil. I don't use heating oil, and nobody that I know around
> here does, so that was disappointing, but I know that a lot of people
> spend a lot of money on that in cold climates.

Retired people really study this? I'm so out of the loop, I didn't
even know I will get a cost of living raise.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 09:59:29 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>>
>> Interesting. What utilities? I had read that a major reason for the
>> indexes (that COLAs are based on) going down was the drop in price for
>> heating oil. I don't use heating oil, and nobody that I know around
>> here does, so that was disappointing, but I know that a lot of people
>> spend a lot of money on that in cold climates.
>
> Retired people really study this? I'm so out of the loop, I didn't
> even know I will get a cost of living raise.
>
> --
>
> Never trust a dog to watch your food.

Yes I'll bet retired people are in fact studying this issue.

Lets see I'm sure the following commodities are lower in price this year
than last:

Electricity
Natural Gas
Phone service
Internet
Cable/Satellite TV
Movies
Popcorn
Medications
Fresh vegetables
Meat
Canned goods
Milk, Eggs, butter, cheese.
Auto/home owners' Insurance.
Etc, Etc, Etc
Co-Pay for doctors visits with Medicare Advantage
Medicare supplemental Ins.

No? Then WTF is the government talking about?

Dimitri

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:15:54 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:

>On Oct 12, 8:03*am, "James Silverton" >
>wrote:
>> *Christopher *wrote *on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT):
>>
>> > On Oct 12, 6:58 am, walt tonne > wrote:
>> >> On Oct 12, 2:43 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa"
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> > >> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up
>> > >> hereabouts.
>>
>> > >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>>
>> > >> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to
>> > >> charitable donations to whiskey as word spread Monday that
>> > >> they will have to wait until at least 2012 to see their
>> > >> Social Security checks increase.
>>
>> There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
>> when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
>> the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>>
>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
>
>Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
>the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
>medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. Many expenses
>like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. Also,
>utilities continue to rise. OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
>housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). The CPI
>is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
>affecting seniors into account.


The most important fact to keep in mind is that SS was never intended
as a retirement pension... people are supposed to save on their own
for retirement... SS was always intended as a suppliment the same as
unemployment insureance is not pay in lieu of wages. And when SS was
instituted it was never with the guarantee it would exist forever...
nothing is forever. I would have much preferred having the option of
not being required to pay into SS and use that money witheld as I
determined... I know I would have been much further ahead. SS was
instituted because the vast majority are lamebrains when it comes to
taking personal responsibility.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 13:55:03 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

> I would have much preferred having the option of
> not being required to pay into SS and use that money witheld as I
> determined... I know I would have been much further ahead. SS was
> instituted because the vast majority are lamebrains when it comes to
> taking personal responsibility.

That's just plain unkind and complete tunnel vision. Read "Meet You
in Hell" by Les Standiford to refresh your memory of how well off
workers were back in the days of yore and how much extra money they
had to put toward their retirement.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:15:54 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> > wrote:
>
>>On Oct 12, 8:03 am, "James Silverton" >
>>wrote:
>>> Christopher wrote on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT):
>>>
>>> > On Oct 12, 6:58 am, walt tonne > wrote:
>>> >> On Oct 12, 2:43 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa"
>>> >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> > >> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up
>>> > >> hereabouts.
>>>
>>> > >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>>>
>>> > >> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to
>>> > >> charitable donations to whiskey as word spread Monday that
>>> > >> they will have to wait until at least 2012 to see their
>>> > >> Social Security checks increase.
>>>
>>> There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
>>> when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
>>> the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> James Silverton
>>> Potomac, Maryland
>>>
>>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
>>
>>Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
>>the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
>>medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. Many expenses
>>like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. Also,
>>utilities continue to rise. OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
>>housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). The CPI
>>is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
>>affecting seniors into account.
>
>
> The most important fact to keep in mind is that SS was never intended
> as a retirement pension... people are supposed to save on their own
> for retirement... SS was always intended as a suppliment the same as
> unemployment insureance is not pay in lieu of wages. And when SS was
> instituted it was never with the guarantee it would exist forever...
> nothing is forever. I would have much preferred having the option of
> not being required to pay into SS and use that money witheld as I
> determined... I know I would have been much further ahead. SS was
> instituted because the vast majority are lamebrains when it comes to
> taking personal responsibility.


The problem with your information is a shift in society. In years past
after xx years with a company there was a "retirement" that went along with
the job. Even the teamsters had a pension fund. In addition medical was
usually part of the retirement package - Just ask GM and the UAW.

The problem came with a dramatic shift in mobility and when corporations no
longer valued loyalty or longevity for a wide variety of reasons.

In short the employers began shifting the retirement burden to a year by
year basis by paying into the 401K type programs hereby eliminating long
term liability and care for their employees.

In short the worker became disposable.

The new workers of today understand (we hope) that their retirement can not
longer be funded by the government or their corporation and is in the
process of being shifted onto the backs of the individual.

In the interim a spouse trying to LIVE on 1/2 her deceased husbands SS is
up the creek and there are no more paddles he/she can access.

Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>
> Yes I'll bet retired people are in fact studying this issue.
>
> Lets see I'm sure the following commodities are lower in price this year
> than last:
>
> Electricity

National Grid set to raise rates.

> Natural Gas

Not available where I live.

> Phone service

Will stay the same.

> Internet

Will stay the same (I have dial up)

> Cable/Satellite TV

Unknown

> Movies

Haven't seen one in years - too expensive.

> Popcorn

Buy in bulk - price about the same (and have a decent amount stored)

> Medications

Big problem - every time I get a refill, price is more.

> Fresh vegetables


Again - prices going up - go to the 'excess' rack for lower costs


> Meat

Eat very little - get protein from soy foods - TVP, tofu, some cheese.

> Canned goods

Get on sale and with coupons but mostly cook from scratch.

> Milk, Eggs, butter, cheese.

No milk (lactose) eggs watch when they are on sale and get enough for a few
weeks, butter - use sparingly and get on sale, cheese use coupons and when
on sale.

> Auto/home owners' Insurance.

Auto only - lowest legally possible - home not insurable.

> Etc, Etc, Etc
> Co-Pay for doctors visits with Medicare Advantage

Big issue right now as have cataract surgery.

> Medicare supplemental Ins.

Can't afford.
>
> No? Then WTF is the government talking about?
>
> Dimitri

Wish I knew Dimitri. I am 71, disabled, and still working (from home on my
computer) I get Social Security and I WILL get a raise - not COLA but
because Soc Sec is based on total wages - and my total keeps getting bigger
as long as I continue working. Medical expenses are my biggest concern -
and home maintainence - which is a bigger problem.

I look to this group for ideas and useable experiences in making my food
budget go further.

Jan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:40:55 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:15:54 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 12, 8:03 am, "James Silverton" >
>>>wrote:
>>>> Christopher wrote on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT):
>>>>
>>>> > On Oct 12, 6:58 am, walt tonne > wrote:
>>>> >> On Oct 12, 2:43 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa"
>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > >> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up
>>>> > >> hereabouts.
>>>>
>>>> > >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>>>>
>>>> > >> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to
>>>> > >> charitable donations to whiskey as word spread Monday that
>>>> > >> they will have to wait until at least 2012 to see their
>>>> > >> Social Security checks increase.
>>>>
>>>> There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
>>>> when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
>>>> the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> James Silverton
>>>> Potomac, Maryland
>>>>
>>>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
>>>
>>>Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
>>>the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
>>>medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. Many expenses
>>>like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. Also,
>>>utilities continue to rise. OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
>>>housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). The CPI
>>>is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
>>>affecting seniors into account.
>>
>>
>> The most important fact to keep in mind is that SS was never intended
>> as a retirement pension... people are supposed to save on their own
>> for retirement... SS was always intended as a suppliment the same as
>> unemployment insureance is not pay in lieu of wages. And when SS was
>> instituted it was never with the guarantee it would exist forever...
>> nothing is forever. I would have much preferred having the option of
>> not being required to pay into SS and use that money witheld as I
>> determined... I know I would have been much further ahead. SS was
>> instituted because the vast majority are lamebrains when it comes to
>> taking personal responsibility.
>
>
>The problem with your information is a shift in society. In years past
>after xx years with a company there was a "retirement" that went along with
>the job. Even the teamsters had a pension fund. In addition medical was
>usually part of the retirement package - Just ask GM and the UAW.
>
>The problem came with a dramatic shift in mobility and when corporations no
>longer valued loyalty or longevity for a wide variety of reasons.
>
>In short the employers began shifting the retirement burden to a year by
>year basis by paying into the 401K type programs hereby eliminating long
>term liability and care for their employees.
>
>In short the worker became disposable.
>
>The new workers of today understand (we hope) that their retirement can not
>longer be funded by the government or their corporation and is in the
>process of being shifted onto the backs of the individual.
>
>In the interim a spouse trying to LIVE on 1/2 her deceased husbands SS is
>up the creek and there are no more paddles he/she can access.


The full value of a vested pension is paid to a spouse... SS is NOT a
pension, not in any way whatsoever. Like I said, one needs to provide
for themself.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:40:55 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:

>> The new workers of today understand (we hope) that their retirement can not
>> longer be funded by the government or their corporation and is in the
>> process of being shifted onto the backs of the individual.
>>
>> In the interim a spouse trying to LIVE on 1/2 her deceased husbands SS is
>> up the creek and there are no more paddles he/she can access.
>
>
> The full value of a vested pension is paid to a spouse... SS is NOT a
> pension, not in any way whatsoever. Like I said, one needs to provide
> for themself.

And SS was never intended to take the place of self planning. It was
intended to augment not replace ones own funding.

On Oct 12, 11:59*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *Nancy2 > wrote:
> > On Oct 12, 8:03*am, "James Silverton" >
> > wrote:
> > > There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
> > > when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
> > > the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?
> > Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
> > the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
> > medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. *Many expenses
> > like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. *Also,
> > utilities continue to rise. *OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
> > housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). *The CPI
> > is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
> > affecting seniors into account.
>
> Interesting. *What utilities? *I had read that a major reason for the
> indexes (that COLAs are based on) going down was the drop in price for
> heating oil. *I don't use heating oil, and nobody that I know around
> here does, so that was disappointing, but I know that a lot of people
> spend a lot of money on that in cold climates.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
>

Heating oil here is mainly limited to rural homes .... my gas and
electric goes up regularly, as does the cost of water, refuse removal
and sewage fees. So does my land-line phone bill, although those
increases are miniscule.

N.

James Silverton wrote:
>
> There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
> when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
> the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?

That's the part that gradually becomes obvious. The CPI is a made up
number to justify changes but it very poorly reflects what inflation
actually is.

"Christopher Helms" > wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 6:58 am, walt tonne > wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2:43 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" >
> wrote:
>
> > Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up hereabouts.
>
> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>
> > Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to charitable
> > donations
> > to whiskey as word spread Monday that they will have to wait until at
> > least
> > 2012 to see their Social Security checks increase.
> > The government is expected to announce this week that more than 58
> > million
> > Social Security recipients will go through a second straight year
> > without an
> > increase in monthly benefits. This year was the first without an
> > increase
> > since automatic adjustments for inflation started in 1975.
>
> > /cnip - read the linked article/
>
> I'll bet federal employees salaries are not frozen! Average $74K per
> annum!
> Shufflers and mufflers. Sit back and watch the wheels come off!


They get automatic cost of living adjustments, but with inflation not
exactly a problem right now, they're not going to see any huge
increases either.

Funny.....I happened to notice the other day that the salsa I have been
paying 99 cents for at WINCO is now selling for $1.30 a jar.....But my SS
check will remain frozen for another year, because there is little or no
inflation? - RIGHT!!

On Oct 12, 11:59*am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *Nancy2 > wrote:
> > On Oct 12, 8:03*am, "James Silverton" >
> > wrote:
> > > There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
> > > when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
> > > the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?
> > Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
> > the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
> > medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. *Many expenses
> > like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. *Also,
> > utilities continue to rise. *OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
> > housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). *The CPI
> > is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
> > affecting seniors into account.
>
> Interesting. *What utilities? *I had read that a major reason for the
> indexes (that COLAs are based on) going down was the drop in price for
> heating oil. *I don't use heating oil, and nobody that I know around
> here does, so that was disappointing, but I know that a lot of people
> spend a lot of money on that in cold climates.

In this area, rents are actually down. Three or 4 years ago I could
have gotten 10-20% more for the house we just rented out. Two years
ago we didn't get raises at work at all, which was OK because prices
didn't go up. In fact, more restaurants are offering better discounts
over the past two years. It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't get any
raises this year. If seniors are having problems it probably has more
to do with decreased interest rates on savings than cost of living.
>
> --
> Dan Abel

--Bryan

On Oct 12, 3:19*pm, "JonquilJan" > wrote:
> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Yes I'll bet retired people are in fact studying this issue.
>
> > Lets see I'm sure the following commodities are lower in price this year
> > than last:
>
> > Electricity
>
> National Grid set to raise rates.
>
> > Natural Gas
>
> Not available where I live.
>
> > Phone service
>
> Will stay the same.
>
> > Internet
>
> Will stay the same (I have dial up)
>
> > Cable/Satellite TV
>
> Unknown
>
> > Movies
>
> Haven't seen one in years - too expensive.
>
> > Popcorn
>
> Buy in bulk - price about the same (and have a decent amount stored)
>
> > Medications
>
> Big problem - every time I get a refill, price is more.
>
> > Fresh vegetables
>
> Again - prices going up - go to the 'excess' rack for lower costs
>
> > Meat
>
> Eat very little - get protein from soy foods - TVP, tofu, some cheese.
>
> > Canned goods
>
> Get on sale and with coupons but mostly cook from scratch.
>
> > Milk, Eggs, butter, cheese.
>
> No milk (lactose) eggs watch when they are on sale and get enough for a few
> weeks, butter - use sparingly and get on sale, cheese use coupons and when
> on sale.
>
> > Auto/home owners' Insurance.
>
> Auto only - lowest legally possible - home not insurable.
>
> > Etc, Etc, Etc
> > Co-Pay for doctors visits with Medicare Advantage
>
> Big issue right now as have cataract surgery.
>
> > Medicare supplemental Ins.
>
> Can't afford.
>
>
>
> > No? *Then WTF is the government talking about?
>
> > Dimitri
>
> Wish I knew Dimitri. *I am 71, disabled, and still working (from home on my
> computer) *I get Social Security and I WILL get a raise - not COLA but
> because Soc Sec is based on total wages - and my total keeps getting bigger
> as long as I continue working. *Medical expenses are my biggest concern -
> and home maintainence - which is a bigger problem.
>
So many home builders are out of work that you can get home repairs
cheaper than a few years ago.
>
> Jan

--Bryan

On 10/12/2010 10:15 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
> On Oct 12, 8:03 am, "James >
> wrote:
>> Christopher wrote on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT):
>>
>>> On Oct 12, 6:58 am, walt > wrote:
>>>> On Oct 12, 2:43 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa"
>>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>>> Funny - stuff like water rates still keep going up
>>>>> hereabouts.
>>
>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/...al_security_no...
>>
>>>>> Seniors prepared to cut back on everything from food to
>>>>> charitable donations to whiskey as word spread Monday that
>>>>> they will have to wait until at least 2012 to see their
>>>>> Social Security checks increase.
>>
>> There is an evident contradiction here. Why should cut-backs be needed
>> when Social Security is pegged to the CPI which has hardly changed. Does
>> the CPI not measure the cost of living and thus a need for increases?
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>>
>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
>
> Yes, you're right about when the COL on SS income kicks in; however,
> the CPI may not change overall, but certain items within it do - like
> medical costs, which rise for no reason whatsoever. Many expenses
> like medical expenses are ones that seniors cannot do without. Also,
> utilities continue to rise. OTOH, maybe clothing doesn't, or one's
> housing cost doesn't (and, in fact, interest rates are down). The CPI
> is an overall figure, not one that takes individual increases
> affecting seniors into account.
>
> N.

Not that it makes much difference but there was no increase in SS
payments last January either.

>>
>>In the interim a spouse trying to LIVE on 1/2 her deceased husbands SS
>>is
>>up the creek and there are no more paddles he/she can access.
>
>
> The full value of a vested pension is paid to a spouse...

No it's not . At the time of claiming then pension the recipient and their
spouse (because of community property laws) must determine a "split" of the
pension i.e. 50-50. or 75-25 etc. When the one of the partners dies the
survivor is left with the agreed upon remaining percentage. This is the way
the pension funds decrease their future liability and expand the funds upon
the backs of the survivors.

Lets take an example Mr. X gets a pension of 1,000.00 per month.
He and Mrs. X decide to split 50 -50.

When one of the 2 dies the survivor is left with 500.00 per month.

If you add SSI to the mix at the death of one of the partners the potential
is for the household to lose half of their income.

There are strategies to overcome this deficiency.

Dimitri

"Bryan" > wrote in message
...

>>
> So many home builders are out of work that you can get home repairs
> cheaper than a few years ago.

How do you go about finding these people who will do cheap home repairs? It
seems that you have to look for a builder rather than a contractor or
handyman?

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:13:15 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>>>
>>>In the interim a spouse trying to LIVE on 1/2 her deceased husbands SS
>>>is
>>>up the creek and there are no more paddles he/she can access.
>>
>>
>> The full value of a vested pension is paid to a spouse...
>
>No it's not . At the time of claiming then pension the recipient and their
>spouse (because of community property laws) must determine a "split" of the
>pension i.e. 50-50. or 75-25 etc. When the one of the partners dies the
>survivor is left with the agreed upon remaining percentage. This is the way
>the pension funds decrease their future liability and expand the funds upon
>the backs of the survivors.
>
>Lets take an example Mr. X gets a pension of 1,000.00 per month.
>He and Mrs. X decide to split 50 -50.
>
>When one of the 2 dies the survivor is left with 500.00 per month.
>
>If you add SSI to the mix at the death of one of the partners the potential
>is for the household to lose half of their income.
>
>There are strategies to overcome this deficiency.

Well of course, don't set up a split... leaving half to a spouse (the
law says so) and half to say a child is a choice. The point still
remains that anyone can purchase their own pension by systematic
investment... both spouses each need to buy their own pension. But
few have the foresight and sense of responsibility to do so... and
thinking about it for 30 years but doing nothing until like a year
before retirement is way too late. And there are many vehicles one
can invest in, if one is not comfortable with mutual funds they can
always buy gold, some purchase real property and then collect rent for
retirement income, lots of folks do exactly that. If one is going to
rely on some entity taking care of them as though they're an infant
then they will very likely be sorely disappointed. No matter what
income level one can always make a systematic investment... even if
all one can contribute is $1/day, if one starts at age 18 they will be
in good economic stead come retirement age. Nowadays hardly anyone
has a savings plan of their own.. all most folks have of their own is
debt. There is really no point going to a job every day if all one
does every day is go deeper and deeper into debt... a debter is a
whole lot worse kind of bum than a skidrow wino. Anyone who owes so
much as a penny is a debter, a bum.

On Oct 12, 7:33*pm, "Cheryl" > wrote:
> "Bryan" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > So many home builders are out of work that you can get home repairs
> > cheaper than a few years ago.
>
> How do you go about finding these people who will do cheap home repairs? *It
> seems that you have to look for a builder rather than a contractor or
> handyman?

They advertise as handymen on Craigslist.

--Bryan

"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> "Bryan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>
>> So many home builders are out of work that you can get home repairs
>> cheaper than a few years ago.
>
> How do you go about finding these people who will do cheap home repairs?
> It seems that you have to look for a builder rather than a contractor or
> handyman?
>
>

I need a contractor/builder - and they are 'very' busy in this area. Near
Fort Drum and the building and expansion is constant. Was very difficult to
even find someone 2 years ago to repair/paint my metal roof. Now my garage
addition has collapsed - and that takes a builder.
Small repairs and maintenance I can get and afford - it's the big things
that are out of reach.
But I persevere. Cataract surgery now the biggest concern. and paying for
that.
Some posts about being prepared and saving for retirement. for those who
become disabled at a fairly young age (for me at 31) any savings up to then
are likely to be completely taken up by medical expenses as mine were.

Simple dishes and meals are the best for someone in my circumstances. Would
appreciate hints on easy and quick skillet meal ideas. (And economical)

Jan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

In article >,
"Dimitri" > wrote:

> >>
> >>In the interim a spouse trying to LIVE on 1/2 her deceased husbands SS
> >>is
> >>up the creek and there are no more paddles he/she can access.
> >
> >
> > The full value of a vested pension is paid to a spouse...
>
> No it's not . At the time of claiming then pension the recipient and their
> spouse (because of community property laws) must determine a "split" of the
> pension i.e. 50-50. or 75-25 etc. When the one of the partners dies the
> survivor is left with the agreed upon remaining percentage. This is the way
> the pension funds decrease their future liability and expand the funds upon
> the backs of the survivors.
>
> Lets take an example Mr. X gets a pension of 1,000.00 per month.
> He and Mrs. X decide to split 50 -50.

I'm thinking that you are both wrong. Doesn't it depend on the pension?
When I retired, I had a choice of the five plans:

1. I get max money. If I die first, my wife gets a pittance.
2. We get a little less. We get that amount as long as *one* of us
still lives.
3. Some weird ass plan, where the one survivor gets *more* upon the
death of the other.
4. Same as #3, but roles are reversed.
5. Any number of beneficiaries, either percent or fixed amount per
month, leave amount for last beneficiary blank, they get the rest. Run
it through the computer. If you don't like it, keep trying until you're
happy with it.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Dan Abel" > wrote

>
> Interesting. What utilities? I had read that a major reason for the
> indexes (that COLAs are based on) going down was the drop in price for
> heating oil. I don't use heating oil, and nobody that I know around
> here does, so that was disappointing, but I know that a lot of people
> spend a lot of money on that in cold climates.

Heating oil can vary considerably during the year. Right now around here it
is the same price as it was last January. 2.75. Last June it dropped to
2.38. Go back another year and in 2009 it varied from 2.09 to 2.68, the low
price in early February. Overall, it has changed little in the past couple
of years so no surprise to the COL hold. Those prices are for NE CT and
can vary.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>

> Heating oil can vary considerably during the year. Right now around here
> it is the same price as it was last January. 2.75. Last June it dropped
> to 2.38. Go back another year and in 2009 it varied from 2.09 to 2.68,
> the low price in early February. Overall, it has changed little in the
> past couple of years so no surprise to the COL hold. Those prices are
> for NE CT and can vary.



Ouch! When we moved to RI in 1971 heating oil was $.16/gal. there.
When we left to move to CO (where everyone heats with gas) in 1984,
heating oil was ~$.49 if I remember correctly.

gloria p

Goomba wrote:
>
>
Hot Creole Sausage
>
>
> Saute in oil the onion, celery and garlic. Add tomatoes, Worcestershire
> sauce, sugar, chili powder and simmer 15 min.
> Mix cornstarch and 2 tablespoons water and stir into sauce til thickened.
> Add sausage and green peppers.
> Simmer 8-10 min and serve over rice.



Sounds pretty good, G, but I think I would saute the sausage first to
render out some of the fat and crisp it a little.

gloria p

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:44:11 -0400, "JonquilJan" >
wrote:

> But I persevere. Cataract surgery now the biggest concern. and paying for
> that.

Good luck, hope the financial part works out. Some of us here have
had it done.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:37:13 -0600, "gloria.p" >
wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>
>> Heating oil can vary considerably during the year. Right now around here
>> it is the same price as it was last January. 2.75. Last June it dropped
>> to 2.38. Go back another year and in 2009 it varied from 2.09 to 2.68,
>> the low price in early February. Overall, it has changed little in the
>> past couple of years so no surprise to the COL hold. Those prices are
>> for NE CT and can vary.
>
>
>
>Ouch! When we moved to RI in 1971 heating oil was $.16/gal. there.
>When we left to move to CO (where everyone heats with gas) in 1984,
>heating oil was ~$.49 if I remember correctly.
>
>gloria p

Going back that far is meaningless... in 1950 a ton of hard antracite
pea was $2/ton delivered. In 1965 I paid 9¢/gallon for gasolene. In
1960 draught beer cost 5¢/12 oz glass and every third was on the
house.. one could get mighty loopy for a buck... and bars fed all you
could eat too, free... in RI it was typically a different catch of the
day each nite.

On Oct 12, 6:00*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Oct 12, 3:19*pm, "JonquilJan" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Dimitri" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > Yes I'll bet retired people are in fact studying this issue.
>
> > > Lets see I'm sure the following commodities are lower in price this year
> > > than last:
>
> > > Electricity
>
> > National Grid set to raise rates.
>
> > > Natural Gas
>
> > Not available where I live.
>
> > > Phone service
>
> > Will stay the same.
>
> > > Internet
>
> > Will stay the same (I have dial up)
>
> > > Cable/Satellite TV
>
> > Unknown
>
> > > Movies
>
> > Haven't seen one in years - too expensive.
>
> > > Popcorn
>
> > Buy in bulk - price about the same (and have a decent amount stored)
>
> > > Medications
>
> > Big problem - every time I get a refill, price is more.
>
> > > Fresh vegetables
>
> > Again - prices going up - go to the 'excess' rack for lower costs
>
> > > Meat
>
> > Eat very little - get protein from soy foods - TVP, tofu, some cheese.
>
> > > Canned goods
>
> > Get on sale and with coupons but mostly cook from scratch.
>
> > > Milk, Eggs, butter, cheese.
>
> > No milk (lactose) eggs watch when they are on sale and get enough for a few
> > weeks, butter - use sparingly and get on sale, cheese use coupons and when
> > on sale.
>
> > > Auto/home owners' Insurance.
>
> > Auto only - lowest legally possible - home not insurable.
>
> > > Etc, Etc, Etc
> > > Co-Pay for doctors visits with Medicare Advantage
>
> > Big issue right now as have cataract surgery.
>
> > > Medicare supplemental Ins.
>
> > Can't afford.
>
> > > No? *Then WTF is the government talking about?
>
> > > Dimitri
>
> > Wish I knew Dimitri. *I am 71, disabled, and still working (from home on my
> > computer) *I get Social Security and I WILL get a raise - not COLA but
> > because Soc Sec is based on total wages - and my total keeps getting bigger
> > as long as I continue working. *Medical expenses are my biggest concern -
> > and home maintainence - which is a bigger problem.
>
> So many home builders are out of work that you can get home repairs
> cheaper than a few years ago.
>
>
>
> > Jan
>
> --Bryan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The good ones are busier than one-armed paper hangers.

N.

On Oct 12, 8:38*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Oct 12, 7:33*pm, "Cheryl" > wrote:
>
> > "Bryan" > wrote in message
>
> ....
>
> > > So many home builders are out of work that you can get home repairs
> > > cheaper than a few years ago.
>
> > How do you go about finding these people who will do cheap home repairs? *It
> > seems that you have to look for a builder rather than a contractor or
> > handyman?
>
> They advertise as handymen on Craigslist.
>
> --Bryan

I wouldn't hire any unknown from Craigslist on a bet....the world is
filled with bad people. I count on word of mouth - and it's my fault
that my previously not-well-known contractor now is so busy I have to
book him months ahead of time. I told everyone how good he was. That
happened with my first builder, too. And my roofer - although I don't
plan on redoing my roof anytime soon. But I still tell people when
they ask. I like to recommend good workers to friends, and so far,
they have all been very successful recommendations. It's the rule of
250 - everyone knows 250 people (who each know 250 other people, and
so on). If you aren't happy with some work, you can tell 250 people.
If you are happy with someone's work, you can tell 250 people. And on
and on.

N.

On Oct 12, 11:35*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:44:11 -0400, "JonquilJan" >
> wrote:
>
> > But I persevere. *Cataract surgery now the biggest concern. *and paying for
> > that.
>
> Good luck, hope the financial part works out. * Some of us here have
> had it done.
>
> --
>
> Never trust a dog to watch your food.

My surgery was very successful - nearsighted slightly in one lens,
farsighted slightly in the other. The brain sorts it all out to
excellent vision and I don't need glasses for anything. Good luck on
your surgery, and don't stress over the bills. They'll eventually get
paid, and all hospitals will make up a payment plan to suit your
budget.

N.

Brooklyn1 wrote on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:51:11 -0400:

>Going back that far is meaningless... in 1950 a ton of hard antracite
>pea was $2/ton delivered. In 1965 I paid 9¢/gallon for gasolene. In
>1960 draught beer cost 5¢/12 oz glass and every third was on the
>house.. one could get mighty loopy for a buck... and bars fed all you
>could eat too, free... in RI it was typically a different catch of the
>day each nite.

Your memories are more attractive than mine :-) I think I can remember
gas at $0.25 when I first came to the US in 1958. The ratio of the CPI's
from 1960 to now is about 7.3 and, around here, a draft beer now costs
at least $3.50 (usually more) or about 50 cents at 1960 prices. I
remember gas at 32 cents when I first came to Washington, DC ($2.34 in
present currency) and that's a bit less than the $2.70 that I paid last
weekend.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Nancy2" > wrote in message
...

> The good ones are busier than one-armed paper hangers.

You have paper hangers with only one arm? <g>


--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 10:28:45 -0400, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> Brooklyn1 wrote on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:51:11 -0400:
>
>>Going back that far is meaningless... in 1950 a ton of hard antracite
>>pea was $2/ton delivered. In 1965 I paid 9¢/gallon for gasolene. In
>>1960 draught beer cost 5¢/12 oz glass and every third was on the
>>house.. one could get mighty loopy for a buck... and bars fed all you
>>could eat too, free... in RI it was typically a different catch of the
>>day each nite.
>
>Your memories are more attractive than mine :-) I think I can remember
>gas at $0.25 when I first came to the US in 1958. The ratio of the CPI's
>from 1960 to now is about 7.3 and, around here, a draft beer now costs
>at least $3.50 (usually more) or about 50 cents at 1960 prices. I
>remember gas at 32 cents when I first came to Washington, DC ($2.34 in
>present currency) and that's a bit less than the $2.70 that I paid last
>weekend.

Depended on location, prices in the US still vary greatly depending on
where one lives. I paid 9¢/gal for gasolene in parts of LA. NJ has
always had lower gasolene prices than NY, refineries are in NJ.
Tobacco is cheaper in the states where grown, booze in the states
where distilled. And rate of taxation is a major component of price.

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dimitri" > wrote:
>
>> >>
>> >>In the interim a spouse trying to LIVE on 1/2 her deceased husbands
>> >>SS
>> >>is
>> >>up the creek and there are no more paddles he/she can access.
>> >
>> >
>> > The full value of a vested pension is paid to a spouse...
>>
>> No it's not . At the time of claiming then pension the recipient and
>> their
>> spouse (because of community property laws) must determine a "split" of
>> the
>> pension i.e. 50-50. or 75-25 etc. When the one of the partners dies the
>> survivor is left with the agreed upon remaining percentage. This is the
>> way
>> the pension funds decrease their future liability and expand the funds
>> upon
>> the backs of the survivors.
>>
>> Lets take an example Mr. X gets a pension of 1,000.00 per month.
>> He and Mrs. X decide to split 50 -50.
>
> I'm thinking that you are both wrong. Doesn't it depend on the pension?
> When I retired, I had a choice of the five plans:
>
> 1. I get max money. If I die first, my wife gets a pittance.
> 2. We get a little less. We get that amount as long as *one* of us
> still lives.
> 3. Some weird ass plan, where the one survivor gets *more* upon the
> death of the other.
> 4. Same as #3, but roles are reversed.
> 5. Any number of beneficiaries, either percent or fixed amount per
> month, leave amount for last beneficiary blank, they get the rest. Run
> it through the computer. If you don't like it, keep trying until you're
> happy with it.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
>

Here is an alternate strategy.

A person has a pension. The spouse waves all rights to her/his pension.
When whomever passes on the survivor retains 100% of his/her pension.
Years ago they purchased a term life policy on the pension persons life. The
value of that policy will be enough to purchase an annuity large enough to
equal the pension. The net result? Whoever dies suffers only the loss of
SSI of the other party and the income from the pension is protected.

It's important to remember the ability to create or replace income
diminishes with age.

Dimitri

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...


Well of course, don't set up a split... leaving half to a spouse (the
> law says so) and half to say a child is a choice.

Some pensions don't have that option a decision must be made.

The point still
> remains that anyone can purchase their own pension by systematic
> investment... both spouses each need to buy their own pension. But
> few have the foresight and sense of responsibility to do so...

Absolutely but seldome done

>and thinking about it for 30 years but doing nothing until like a year
> before retirement is way too late.


If you read the stats many retirees are in real trouble or will be in
trouble shortly.


And there are many vehicles one
> can invest in, if one is not comfortable with mutual funds they can
> always buy gold, some purchase real property and then collect rent for
> retirement income, lots of folks do exactly that. If one is going to
> rely on some entity taking care of them as though they're an infant
> then they will very likely be sorely disappointed. No matter what
> income level one can always make a systematic investment... even if
> all one can contribute is $1/day, if one starts at age 18 they will be
> in good economic stead come retirement age.

once again seldome done.

Nowadays hardly anyone
> has a savings plan of their own.. all most folks have of their own is
> debt. There is really no point going to a job every day if all one
> does every day is go deeper and deeper into debt... a debter is a
> whole lot worse kind of bum than a skidrow wino. Anyone who owes so
> much as a penny is a debter, a bum.

There are times when debt is a valid tool.
But being so far upside down is insanity - I think we agree on that.

Dimitri

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:43:23 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Nancy2" > wrote in message
...
>
>> The good ones are busier than one-armed paper hangers.
>
>You have paper hangers with only one arm? <g>

And no legs.