http://www.recfoodcooking.com

This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

ChattyCathy wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.

It's the only way I'm going to get a ribbon, I'll take a number 16!

It's iffy how milk or cheese will hit me, so if I have a big day
planned, I don't go near dairy. I do have some Lactaid tablets
but I don't remember to take them with dairy unless I've been
having problems.

nancy

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:23:22 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:

> ChattyCathy wrote:
>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>>
>> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
>
> It's the only way I'm going to get a ribbon, I'll take a number 16!

<g> Consider it yours.
>
> It's iffy how milk or cheese will hit me, so if I have a big day
> planned, I don't go near dairy. I do have some Lactaid tablets
> but I don't remember to take them with dairy unless I've been
> having problems.

Never had any problems with dairy products (thank goodness, as I love
things like cheese, butter and cream). However, as I've gotten older
I seem to have become somewhat gluten intolerant. Oh, well can't have
everything, I suppose.

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

ChattyCathy > wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:23:22 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> ChattyCathy wrote:
>>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>>>
>>> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
>>
>> It's the only way I'm going to get a ribbon, I'll take a number 16!
>
>> Consider it yours.
>>
>> It's iffy how milk or cheese will hit me, so if I have a big day
>> planned, I don't go near dairy. I do have some Lactaid tablets
>> but I don't remember to take them with dairy unless I've been
>> having problems.
>
> Never had any problems with dairy products (thank goodness, as I love
> things like cheese, butter and cream). However, as I've gotten older
> I seem to have become somewhat gluten intolerant. Oh, well can't have
> everything, I suppose.

Gluten bothers me also a little. I always thought at first was tomato
products on my pizza and spaghetti. Now I know it is gluten. I still eat
bread products but in much smaller quantities.

People age differently and certain enzymes maybe lacking. So vegetarian
diets may good for some and a high protein diets for others.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan L (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Nov 12, 9:23*am, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> ChattyCathy wrote:
> >http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> > This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
>
> It's the only way I'm going to get a ribbon, I'll take a number 16!
>
> It's iffy how milk or cheese will hit me, so if I have a big day
> planned, I don't go near dairy. *I do have some Lactaid tablets
> but I don't remember to take them with dairy unless I've been
> having problems.

Hard cheese have close enough to zero lactose that no one can't eat
them because of lactose intolerance. Lactaid tablets are very
effective. No one needs to eschew dairy because of lactose
intolerance, but one can be intolerant of milk proteins, and that's a
very different thing.
>
> nancy

--Bryan

ChattyCathy wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.




Both husband and I drank milk until the kids were out of the house, then
switched to water or wine with meals. After years of not much milk, if
I drink a glass of it I have real discomfort unless I precede it with a
lactase tablet. I use butter and cream without much problem but a bowl
of ice cream is iffy. Lactaid is my friend.

There are certain foods that cry out for milk to accompany them,
brownies, chocolate cake, cookies....

gloria p

On 2010-11-12, ChattyCathy > wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.

I'm partially lactose intolerant to cow milk after all these years of
not being. If I drink milk, I may suffer the green apple shouts
within the next 12-24hrs. OTOH, cream, ice cream, and goat milk don't
bother me. I also seem to be able to tolerate cow milk if I've been
eating my daily dose of yogurt. I've always enjoyed a small bowl of
frosted cold cereal as a pre-bedtime dessert, so the yogurt has become
a daily ritual to help prevent any morning discomfort. I wonder if
that BGH crap has anything to do with it?

nb

On 11/12/2010 07:08 AM, ChattyCathy wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.

It runs in my family. My mom couldn't feed me dairy formula when I was a
baby. These days, I can consume some dairy, but a lot of whole milk will
make me so sick I want to die, partly from the lactose, and . My kid's
got it even worse than I do.

Serene

--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

On 11/12/2010 10:17 AM, Serene Vannoy wrote:
> On 11/12/2010 07:08 AM, ChattyCathy wrote:
>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>>
>> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
>
> It runs in my family. My mom couldn't feed me dairy formula when I was a
> baby. These days, I can consume some dairy, but a lot of whole milk will
> make me so sick I want to die, partly from the lactose, and

....partly from my sensitivity to milk protein (so lactose-free cow's
milk doesn't quite fix things for me.)

>. My kid's
> got it even worse than I do.
>
> Serene
>


--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

Omelet wrote:
>
> I've been gluten intolerant for years but until lately, have been able
> to enjoy it in small amounts.

Long ago I noticed that I'd get indigestion after high cheese meals.
That would not be lactose intolerance because the fermentation process
removes the lactose from the cheese. In the end it turned out my high
cheese meals were really high wheat meals. Duh, wheat had formed a
background noise for me for decades of indigestion.

Oddly, I have trouble digesting sheep milk cheese. Not the usual way it
works.

> No longer. <sigh> The older I've gotten, the worse the allergy has
> progressed.

As I've avoided wheat over the years my symptoms have gotten milder so
it can go either way.

"ChattyCathy" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
> --
> Cheers
> Chatty Cathy
>
MCINL

If I couldn't have Dairy Products, I would just shoot myself.







--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

In article >, Andy > wrote:

> ChattyCathy > wrote:
>
> > http://www.recfoodcooking.com
> >
> > This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
>
>
> Not lactose intolerant.
>
> Most lactose comes from yogurt or fat-free milk.
>
> Andy

When milk is cultured to make yogurt, the Lactobacilli bacteria break
down the bacteria to lactic acid. The acid curdles the milk protein.
That said, many yogurt makers add extra non-fat dry milk for added
protein. Some of the lactose in the milk powder may not get broken
down. Frozen yogurt is a major offender in this category.

Cindy, not lactose intolerant--yet

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

On 11/12/2010 5:08 AM, ChattyCathy wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
>
> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.

Mostly, lactose intolerance affects Asian and black folks and Hispanics.
The ability to digest milk sugar seems to be a natural talent of people
of Northern European descent. This is good because white folks seem to
really like ice cream. As far as I know, it was my father-in-law's main
pleasure in life.

I can digest lactose if I can maintain a viable colony of lactose loving
bacteria in my guts. OTOH, I don't really eat much milk products so
there's not much point in me working very hard on this.

I have no problem with yogurt or cheese or acidophilus milk.

In article >,
"gloria.p" > wrote:


> Both husband and I drank milk until the kids were out of the house, then
> switched to water or wine with meals. After years of not much milk, if
> I drink a glass of it I have real discomfort unless I precede it with a
> lactase tablet. I use butter and cream without much problem but a bowl
> of ice cream is iffy. Lactaid is my friend.

I read somewhere that commercial ice cream often has milk solids added
to it. Milk solids are high in lactose.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
Serene Vannoy > wrote:

> On 11/12/2010 07:08 AM, ChattyCathy wrote:
> > http://www.recfoodcooking.com
> >
> > This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
>
> It runs in my family. My mom couldn't feed me dairy formula when I was a
> baby. These days, I can consume some dairy, but a lot of whole milk will
> make me so sick I want to die, partly from the lactose, and . My kid's
> got it even worse than I do.

My wife had to give up drinking cow's milk when she was nursing our
middle child. He was always cranky. Since he was just a baby, we
couldn't ask him what was wrong. He was just cranky. We were *very*
skeptical when his pediatrician suggested that she stop drinking milk.
But, she did, and it worked. No more cranky baby! He outgrew it, and
now drinks about a half gallon a day!

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
dsi1 > wrote:

> Mostly, lactose intolerance affects Asian and black folks and Hispanics.
> The ability to digest milk sugar seems to be a natural talent of people
> of Northern European descent. This is good because white folks seem to
> really like ice cream. As far as I know, it was my father-in-law's main
> pleasure in life.

Actually, all races are born with the ability to handle lactose. Back
in the old days, there was a word for those born without that ability.
Dead. Very few babies could survive it, since there was no other source
of food. In societies where adults didn't consume dairy, people lost
the ability to use lactose sometime in childhood. In societies where
they did, people genetically adapted to handle it.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
Doug Freyburger > wrote:

> Long ago I noticed that I'd get indigestion after high cheese meals.
> That would not be lactose intolerance because the fermentation process
> removes the lactose from the cheese.

Although there is some truth to that, it's mostly incorrect. Milk has a
lot of lactose in it. To make cheese, first you separate the milk into
curds and whey. Almost all the lactose goes with the whey. Only the
curd is used in making most cheeses.

> Oddly, I have trouble digesting sheep milk cheese. Not the usual way it
> works.

I'm guessing that isn't lactose. My understanding is that lactose is a
simple sugar, and is the same whether it comes from cow's milk, sheep's
milk or human milk.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Dan Abel wrote:

>
> My wife had to give up drinking cow's milk when she was nursing our
> middle child. He was always cranky. Since he was just a baby, we
> couldn't ask him what was wrong. He was just cranky. We were *very*
> skeptical when his pediatrician suggested that she stop drinking milk.
> But, she did, and it worked. No more cranky baby! He outgrew it, and
> now drinks about a half gallon a day!
>



Our year-old grandson had miserably painful colic for three months until
they took him to a new pediatrician who ordered Mom to avoid all dairy:
milk, cheese, yogurt, and cruciferous vegetables (cabbage, broccoli,
etc.) The improvement was overnight. He became a calm, happy baby
almost instantly.

gloria p

On 14/11/2010 10:45 AM, Dan Abel wrote:

>> Both husband and I drank milk until the kids were out of the house, then
>> switched to water or wine with meals. After years of not much milk, if
>> I drink a glass of it I have real discomfort unless I precede it with a
>> lactase tablet. I use butter and cream without much problem but a bowl
>> of ice cream is iffy. Lactaid is my friend.
>
> I read somewhere that commercial ice cream often has milk solids added
> to it. Milk solids are high in lactose.
That would explain why I have so little trouble with premium brands and
my own home made. I avoid commercial ice cream.
>

In article >, Andy > wrote:

> Cindy Fuller > wrote:
>
> > In article >, Andy > wrote:
> >
> >> ChattyCathy > wrote:
> >>
> >> > http://www.recfoodcooking.com
> >> >
> >> > This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
> >>
> >>
> >> Not lactose intolerant.
> >>
> >> Most lactose comes from yogurt or fat-free milk.
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
> > When milk is cultured to make yogurt, the Lactobacilli bacteria break
> > down the bacteria to lactic acid. The acid curdles the milk protein.
> > That said, many yogurt makers add extra non-fat dry milk for added
> > protein. Some of the lactose in the milk powder may not get broken
> > down. Frozen yogurt is a major offender in this category.
> >
> > Cindy, not lactose intolerant--yet
>
>
> Cindy,
>
> It appears I got my words backwards.
>
> I wasn't lactose intolerant for most of my life. Then I was, years ago.
>
> I forced lots of fat-free milk and yogurt through me. Then I wasn't
> again.
>
> Something in the milk fat?!?
>
> Best,
>
> Andy

Some folks who are lactose intolerant can consume milk in some quantity
along with other foods. If they sit down and guzzle a quart without
something else, that's another story. I don't think it's a milk fat
thing. In reality, fat free milk would have slightly more lactose than
whole milk. You may have been able to stimulate your gut cells to
produce more lactase enzyme, but the only way we could test this is by
biopsying your small intestine pre and post milk treatment. Not a very
fun thing to do.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Omelet wrote on Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:57:10 -0600:

>> "ChattyCathy" > wrote in message
>> ...
> >> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
> >>
> >> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
> >> --
> >> Cheers
> >> Chatty Cathy
> >>
>> MCINL
>>
>> If I couldn't have Dairy Products, I would just shoot myself.
>>
> I'd be very unhappy without cheese. :-)

I have been unhappy without cheese for 25 years because of a physician
recommended low-fat diet after a heart operation. I can't resist trying
free samples of cheese and I know I still like it. You can't even get
fat-free cheese anymore except for shredded Kraft cheddar and mozzarella
or tasteless emulsified cheese slices.

To tell the truth, I sometimes melt shredded fat-free mozzarella in the
microwave with a little water (sometimes with cumin seeds and smoke
flavoring) and MSG and let it solidify. It's edible if not aged cheddar!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Omelet wrote on Tue, 16 Nov 2010 11:25:55 -0600:

> >> I'd be very unhappy without cheese. :-)
>>
>> I have been unhappy without cheese for 25 years because of a
>> physician recommended low-fat diet after a heart operation. I
>> can't resist trying free samples of cheese and I know I still
>> like it. You can't even get fat-free cheese anymore except
>> for shredded Kraft cheddar and mozzarella or tasteless
>> emulsified cheese slices.
>>
>> To tell the truth, I sometimes melt shredded fat-free
>> mozzarella in the microwave with a little water (sometimes
>> with cumin seeds and smoke flavoring) and MSG and let it
>> solidify. It's edible if not aged cheddar!
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton

> Have you tried Soy Kaas? I went on a low/no fat kick for
> awhile one time and discovered that very yummy stuff. ;-d
> It's a bit pricey but a downright decent cheese substitute imho:

> <http://www.soykaas.com/product/mild-cheddar-1>

> It even melts like real cheese.

> Hm, reading that nutritional breakdown, I may have to take
> another real look at it myself. I've not totally cut cheese
> out of my diet but in the interest of saving calories, I
> rarely eat it any more and I do love it so!

Thanks, Soy Kaas and its various imitators contain about as much fat as
most other "low-fat" cheeses. Usually, if a cheese is to melt, it must
contain some fat. A large part of the flavor of real cheese comes from
fatty acids and I don't believe that any cheese flavorings sold even
approach this.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

It's nice to add to a stout, though, to give it some sweet creaminess. Nice thing is, lactose doesn't ferment in beer so it is forgiving as to when you add it to the stout.

ChattyCathy wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:23:22 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > ChattyCathy wrote:
> >> http://www.recfoodcooking.com
> >>
> >> This subject came up in another thread... just curious.
> >
> > It's the only way I'm going to get a ribbon, I'll take a number 16!
>
> <g> Consider it yours.
> >
> > It's iffy how milk or cheese will hit me, so if I have a big day
> > planned, I don't go near dairy. I do have some Lactaid tablets
> > but I don't remember to take them with dairy unless I've been
> > having problems.
>
> Never had any problems with dairy products (thank goodness, as I love
> things like cheese, butter and cream). However, as I've gotten older
> I seem to have become somewhat gluten intolerant. Oh, well can't have
> everything, I suppose.
>
>

This past year, seem to have become somewhat more lactose intolerant.
Aged cheeses and anything fermented aren't problems of course; just
liquid milk/cream. Bought a box of lactase tablets. They work a treat
for the weekly bowl of cereal or mug of cocoa

James Silverton wrote:

> Thanks to everyone for suggestions. I got to Whole Foods today but,
> despite what it says on their web page, Soya Kaas slices each contain
> 3% of the daily fat recommendation according to the nutritional label.
> Perhaps, fat-free versions exist, maybe solid cheese, but I've yet to
> find them :-(
>
Wouldn't you just rather eat wonderful good cheese in moderation rather
than go with imitation or do without?

James Silverton wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone for suggestions. I got to Whole Foods today but,
> despite what it says on their web page, Soya Kaas slices each contain
> 3% of the daily fat recommendation according to the nutritional label.
> Perhaps, fat-free versions exist, maybe solid cheese, but I've yet to
> find them :-(

Some fat does grow inside the beans. In some cases fat free means no
fat has been added (you eat brocolli and it has tiny amounts that gre in
it). In some cases fat free means the fat was removed (like skim milk
based dairy products where traces remain).

Goomba wrote on Wed, 17 Nov 2010 15:18:39 -0500:

>> Thanks to everyone for suggestions. I got to Whole Foods
>> today but, despite what it says on their web page, Soya Kaas slices
>> each contain 3% of the daily fat recommendation
>> according to the nutritional label. Perhaps, fat-free
>> versions exist, maybe solid cheese, but I've yet to find them
>> :-(

>Wouldn't you just rather eat wonderful good cheese in moderation rather
>than go with imitation or do without?
>
I would say the hell with moderation; it's all or nothing! Any hope for
success is rather like giving up smoking, which I did long ago. I've
tried more or less successfully for a "no-fat" diet for 20 years since a
heart operation and, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! My cardiologist is
now saying that olive oil is good for you but, given the advice I have
received from him over the years, I'm not sure that I can bring myself
to believe him.

However, the story of cheese continues. There is a small local chain of
organic stores, called "Mom's Organic Market" that has a number of
interesting things, including excellent breads, organic wines and real
cider (one is called "Scrumpy".) On an off chance, I went in there today
and discovered that they had "Soy Kaas" (not Soya Kaas). There was both
a regular line and versions marked fat-free (in Mozzarella and Mild
Cheddar flavors.) The Mozzarella is not bad with a rather fragile
texture and not strongly tasting but neither is real Mozzarella. The
fat-free stuff does melt as Om said. Perhaps, I'll try the Cheddar in a
week or two.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:

> I would say the hell with moderation; it's all or nothing! Any hope for
> success is rather like giving up smoking, which I did long ago. I've
> tried more or less successfully for a "no-fat" diet for 20 years since a
> heart operation and, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! My cardiologist is
> now saying that olive oil is good for you but, given the advice I have
> received from him over the years, I'm not sure that I can bring myself
> to believe him.
>
Oh pahleese. You and your doctor are about 20 years behind the times
then since they've been touting the benefits of olive oil (and the
entire Mediterranean diet) for about that long.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:51:26 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

>James Silverton wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for suggestions. I got to Whole Foods today but,
>> despite what it says on their web page, Soya Kaas slices each contain
>> 3% of the daily fat recommendation according to the nutritional label.
>> Perhaps, fat-free versions exist, maybe solid cheese, but I've yet to
>> find them :-(
>
>Some fat does grow inside the beans. In some cases fat free means no
>fat has been added (you eat brocolli and it has tiny amounts that gre in
>it). In some cases fat free means the fat was removed (like skim milk
>based dairy products where traces remain).

The USDA definition of 'fat free' is "less than 0.5 g fat per
serving."

Goomba wrote on Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:37:37 -0500:

>> I would say the hell with moderation; it's all or nothing!
>> Any hope for success is rather like giving up smoking, which I did
>> long ago. I've tried more or less successfully for a
>> "no-fat" diet for 20 years since a heart operation and, if it
>> ain't broke, don't fix it! My cardiologist is now saying that
>> olive oil is good for you but, given the advice I have
>> received from him over the years, I'm not sure that I can
>> bring myself to believe him.
>>
>Oh pahleese. You and your doctor are about 20 years behind the times
>then since they've been touting the benefits of olive oil (and the
>entire Mediterranean diet) for about that long

It depends a lot on who "they" is. There have been lots of other damn
fool diets proposed over the years: South Beach, vegetarian, grapefruit,
you name it!
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:
> Goomba wrote on Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:37:37 -0500:
>
>>> I would say the hell with moderation; it's all or nothing!
>>> Any hope for success is rather like giving up smoking, which I did
>>> long ago. I've tried more or less successfully for a
>>> "no-fat" diet for 20 years since a heart operation and, if it
>>> ain't broke, don't fix it! My cardiologist is now saying that
>>> olive oil is good for you but, given the advice I have
>>> received from him over the years, I'm not sure that I can
>>> bring myself to believe him.
>>>
>> Oh pahleese. You and your doctor are about 20 years behind the times
>> then since they've been touting the benefits of olive oil (and the
>> entire Mediterranean diet) for about that long
>
> It depends a lot on who "they" is. There have been lots of other damn
> fool diets proposed over the years: South Beach, vegetarian, grapefruit,
> you name it!

How's the Mayo Clinic for starters?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/med...n-diet/CL00011

Then there is the American Heart Association-
http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4655

This isn't new stuff, James. Its kinda sad to think you've been out of
the loop and not enjoying a little oil now and then. Your body needs
some fats!
I'm lucky, I was raised eating olive oil almost nightly in salads.

Goomba wrote on Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:49:27 -0500:

>This isn't new stuff, James. Its kinda sad to think you've been out of
>the loop and not enjoying a little oil now and then. Your body needs
>some fats!

My major reason for trying for "no-fat" is that, as I said, "if it ain't
broke, don't fix it." I'm still around! I also know that trying for,
say, 2% of the federally *maximum* recommended amount of fat on
individual items probably builds up to about 20% by the end of the day;
far from really "no-fat".

I do admit that I am used to my diet and tend to suffer gastric unease
if I eat larger quantities of fat as tends to happen with even carefully
selected Chinese and Indian restaurant food.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:
>
> I would say the hell with moderation; it's all or nothing! Any hope for
> success is rather like giving up smoking, which I did long ago.

In dieting the result of efforts towards moderation is completely clear.
Go to the mall and see how many fat people there are. Does anyone
seriously believe that few of them have tried moderation many times and
are still fat because of those efforts? If even 1-in-10 of the fat
people at the mall have not tried moderation I'd be shocked. It's far
closer to 100% than to 90%.

In some arenas moderation works. In other arenas moderation utterly and
completely fails. Moderation is for those it works for but it is
absolutely no panacea. Equally in some arenas all or nothing works. In
other arenas all or nothing fails. All or nothing is for those it works
for.

What James does works and that's that. It matters for naught that it's
not for me and would not work for me - When I tried low fat for 20 years
my result was 50 pounds gained and two decades of unending hunger. No
matter, James is not me and I am not James.