"Lenona" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 23, 11:13 am, itsjoannotjoann >
> wrote:
>> On Nov 23, 9:47 am, Lenona > wrote:> On Nov 23, 10:25
>> am, itsjoannotjoann >
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mortified _and_ shocked that the invitees didn't show up at their
>> door without a food contribution??? What has the host/hostess have
>> to be mortified about?? The bringing of food to large get togethers
>> is done in my family, too, but not just hoping someone will show up
>> with the correct for dishes. The host/hostess in your family doesn't
>> request specific dishes and just leaves it up to everyone to bring
>> what they hope is a variety??
>
>
> After 60 years of watching/doing the same things in the extended
> family, the hosts know what to expect - and so do the guests. We all
> know who likes to bring the vegetables and who will bring pies or
> other desserts.
>
> The hosts would be shocked if no one brought anything, since it's
> usually just RELATIVES who are there, and they've ALWAYS brought
> contributions! As I said, no other nuclear family else ever hosts.
> This is due to the fact that only one house is BIG enough for more
> than a few dinner guests.
>
>
>> Is this a restaurant or a nursing home?? People are not allowed to
>> fill their own plates???? Are y'all that messy when serving
>> yourselves someone else has to do it for you?????????
>
> No, we're FORMAL. Everyone but three people or so sits down, partly to
> avoid crowding and foot traffic, but it's also gracious to let guests
> relax in their seats - especially the oldest ones. The host always
> does the carving for the first servings. The two or three volunteers
> (I'm often one of them, another would be the hostess) take specific
> orders, fill the plates, and serve.
>
> For some reason, I can't remember if we use that method for second
> servings, since many don't want seconds, but we DO use it for dessert,
> since most people want to wait a while before dessert anyway, and
> again, it's faster if most of the guests stay seated.
>
> Thanks to sf for your comments, btw. As well as commentator #40.

I am glad it works for you and your family, but please don't get cross if
other people don't do it your way.

Each to his/her own eh?

--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"ravenlynne" > wrote in message
...
> My grandmother used to make great oyster dressing...I'm the only one I
> know who likes it so I don't bother.

I don't know what it is, but why not make it for *you*? You are at least
as important as everyone else

Who knows.. if it is on the table.. someone else might like it

--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:06:53 -0800 (PST), ImStillMags
> wrote:

> I don't understand why people are so up tight about it. This is a
> holiday to enjoy food and each other, eat drink and
> laugh and have a good time and be thankful that we can.

The way you do it sounds perfectly reasonable to me. The nay sayers
here are a bunch of control freaks who have probably never hosted (or
attended) big family parties with any regularity anyway.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On 11/23/2010 4:43 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "ravenlynne" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My grandmother used to make great oyster dressing...I'm the only one I
>> know who likes it so I don't bother.
>
> I don't know what it is, but why not make it for *you*? You are at least
> as important as everyone else
>
> Who knows.. if it is on the table.. someone else might like it
>

Oh, I don't usually miss it. I make so many other things.

--
Currently reading: The Chalice by Phil Rickman and The Walking Dead vol 3

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:15:26 -0800 (PST) in rec.food.cooking, Lenona
> wrote,
>I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
>extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it?

You are perhaps expecting to stuff it inside the host's turkey?
I don't personally favor stuffing; I would cook dressing in a pan
alongside the turkey, but then it doesn't qualify as stuffing.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 14:24:04 -0800, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> If it were normal to bring whatever you
> wanted in this family or for multiples of the same dish to be made,
> there wouldn't have been a need to ask Miss Manners about it.

Frankly, the dilemma in the letter sounded more like what Ann Landers
used to call a "Yale prank".

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:41:23 -0000, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Lenona" > wrote in message
...
>> On Nov 23, 11:13 am, itsjoannotjoann >
>> wrote:
>>> On Nov 23, 9:47 am, Lenona > wrote:> On Nov 23, 10:25
>>> am, itsjoannotjoann >
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mortified _and_ shocked that the invitees didn't show up at their
>>> door without a food contribution??? What has the host/hostess have
>>> to be mortified about?? The bringing of food to large get togethers
>>> is done in my family, too, but not just hoping someone will show up
>>> with the correct for dishes. The host/hostess in your family doesn't
>>> request specific dishes and just leaves it up to everyone to bring
>>> what they hope is a variety??
>>
>>
>> After 60 years of watching/doing the same things in the extended
>> family, the hosts know what to expect - and so do the guests. We all
>> know who likes to bring the vegetables and who will bring pies or
>> other desserts.
>>
>> The hosts would be shocked if no one brought anything, since it's
>> usually just RELATIVES who are there, and they've ALWAYS brought
>> contributions! As I said, no other nuclear family else ever hosts.
>> This is due to the fact that only one house is BIG enough for more
>> than a few dinner guests.
>>
>>
>>> Is this a restaurant or a nursing home?? People are not allowed to
>>> fill their own plates???? Are y'all that messy when serving
>>> yourselves someone else has to do it for you?????????
>>
>> No, we're FORMAL. Everyone but three people or so sits down, partly to
>> avoid crowding and foot traffic, but it's also gracious to let guests
>> relax in their seats - especially the oldest ones. The host always
>> does the carving for the first servings. The two or three volunteers
>> (I'm often one of them, another would be the hostess) take specific
>> orders, fill the plates, and serve.
>>
>> For some reason, I can't remember if we use that method for second
>> servings, since many don't want seconds, but we DO use it for dessert,
>> since most people want to wait a while before dessert anyway, and
>> again, it's faster if most of the guests stay seated.
>>
>> Thanks to sf for your comments, btw. As well as commentator #40.
>
>I am glad it works for you and your family, but please don't get cross if
>other people don't do it your way.
>
>Each to his/her own eh?

I don't have more than one couple or two for company on Thanksgiving
anymore but when I did the full house routine I'd carve the entire
bird in the kitchen and put it back on the frame... no one knew it was
all sliced until I asked white meat or dark. Now for just a couple
three people I carve at the table. In fact this year I'm commissioned
to scoot over to carve my next door neighbor's turkey and put it back
on the frame without anyone noticing I'm there, Mark said he'd phone
me when he put it on his garage work bench, they have a huge family.
It'll take me like 20 minutes, he'll make me join him in a double
scotch-rocks and I'll scoot back home. I have wonderful neighbors, if
I had a son I wish he were like Mark.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:50:52 -0800, David Harmon >
wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:15:26 -0800 (PST) in rec.food.cooking, Lenona
> > wrote,
> >I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
> >extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it?
>
> You are perhaps expecting to stuff it inside the host's turkey?
> I don't personally favor stuffing; I would cook dressing in a pan
> alongside the turkey, but then it doesn't qualify as stuffing.

That's baloney. They are interchangeable terms.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:23:48 -0800, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> No, I only really cook water chestnuts in pineapple fried rice. I'm
> slightly suspicious of using a vegetable in a can that I couldn't even
> identify in nature. :-)

I learned it from someone who was half Filipino and half Irish - it's
good if you want some crunch in your dressing. I like them better
than celery.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Nov 23, 12:32*pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> Lenona wrote:
> > This is a new column.
>
> >http://www.buffalonews.com/life/colu...ners/article26...
>
> > * Dear Miss Manners: *Is it rude to bring your own stuffing because
> > you don’t like what the host is serving? (The “host” is my daughter,
> > and my boyfriend is the stuffing hater.)
>
> > Gentle Reader: Since this is a family dinner, there is a polite way
> > for him to bring stuffing that he likes. All he has to do, Miss
> > Manners begs you to inform him, is to obtain your daughter’s
> > permission beforehand to bring it nicely packed inside of a freshly
> > cooked turkey.
>
> > (end)
>
> > I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
> > extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it? In MY experience,
> > stuffing is something people often like MORE than the turkey - and
> > since, in my extended family, Thanksgiving dinner is always at the
> > same house, it would be wrong, in our opinions, for each of us NOT to
> > bring part of the meal - or an "extra" pie, stuffing or vegetable
> > dish. So all you'd have to do is bring a generous amount in case
> > everyone else prefers your stuffing too.
>
> On the one hand I know that stuffing is one of those things that
> people like just the way they want it and it's not a reflection on yours
> if they don't love it. *On the other hand, would it really kill the guy to
> pass on the stuffing for one day, have your kind at your own house.
>
> If I was the host/ess in this scenario, I say bring it, I wouldn't take it
> personally. *Bring a dessert, too, while you're at it.
>
> > But I do like MM's response to the next letter. Even though it
> > surprised me a bit.
>
> I'm with her, what's the BFD, get over yourself. *(not you, the whiner
> who wrote the letter)
>
> nancy

Stuffing is one of those things that evoke memories and it's one of
the ultimate comfort foods. And most of the time, you only get
stuffing on Thanksgiving. So... if someone is going to be a guest and
they have a particular type of stuffing they like, and it's the type
of gathering where people bring something (as in my social and family
circles), then what's the harm? You make a joke out of it with the
hostess. "I'm sure your stuffing is wonderful, but it's just not
Thanksgiving for me without stuffing the way my Mom made it. I brought
enough for everyone to taste if they like".

I spent 6 Thanksgivings at the home of someone who hated to cook and
didn't use salt and pepper in anything. Herbs were completely out of
the question. The turkey wasn't seasoned at all; the mashed potatoes
were potatoes whipped with milk but no butter and no salt. The
stuffing was unspeakably awful to me and my Dad. She and her kids
loved it. Different Strokes, I guess. I always made herbed green
beans with walnuts, she asked for that and she enjoyed my take on
green beans. After the 2nd year, my Dad told her he had asked me to
bring some stuffing to serve in addition to hers. He explained that it
wasn't fair to her and her kids not to have the stuffing they like,
but it was different than what we were used to, and he missed the
stuffing I used to make. I still brought the green beans she
requested. Everyone was welcome to have either stuffing. To me, the
stuffing needs to be "traditional". Anything else is variable. Though
I prefer baked sweet potatoes to the sweet potato casserole. My poor
Mom had to make both; she loved baked sweets, my siblings liked the
casserole, Dad liked both!!! I had the choice from the beginning; I
always went with the baked over the casserole. But I will eat
either. I also bake sweet potatoes at least once a week, so it's not a
big deal. But STUFFING, yes. Only bread, veggies and maybe apples and
or cranberries. No meat. Meat broth to moisten is ok... but otherwise
no meat.

Bottom line is; In a "blended family", it's important to respect
everyone's traditions. And if that means 2 kinds of stuffing, what is
the big deal???? Remember the first Thanksgiving on "Friends", when
Monica served 5 kinds of potatoes, because each of her friends needed
to have potatoes on Thanksgiving the way their Mom made them?

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:12:45 -0800 in rec.food.cooking, sf
> wrote,
>On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:50:52 -0800, David Harmon >
>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:15:26 -0800 (PST) in rec.food.cooking, Lenona
>> > wrote,
>> >I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
>> >extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it?
>>
>> You are perhaps expecting to stuff it inside the host's turkey?
>> I don't personally favor stuffing; I would cook dressing in a pan
>> alongside the turkey, but then it doesn't qualify as stuffing.
>
>That's baloney. They are interchangeable terms.

No, they are not.

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
>
>
>... but when I did the full house routine I'd carve the entire
> bird in the kitchen and put it back on the frame... no one knew it was
> all sliced until I asked white meat or dark. Now for just a couple
> three people I carve at the table. In fact this year I'm commissioned
> to scoot over to carve my next door neighbor's turkey and put it back
> on the frame without anyone noticing I'm there, Mark said he'd phone
> me when he put it on his garage work bench, ...


Post pictures.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> Yes I expected her to be someone who told you where to place your
>> knife
>> and fork)
>
> She'll do that, too. She is my favorite etiquette writer.

As I said, I have only seen that one example and she looked pretty sensible
to me
--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Nov 23, 11:32*am, Omelet > wrote:

>
> Additional food was placed on the table in case they wanted "seconds" (I
> do plate the initial dinner), and it did not go uneaten...
>

Having somebody plate my food would be a nightmare. Most people don't
realize how picky I am because I am good at hiding it in public. But
forcing me to accept a plate where most of it is inedible for me means
that I have to make some excuse as to why I didn't eat it, or eat it
and risk throwing up in public. I have problems with certain textures
and combinations.

A couple months ago, we had a huge family dinner, and my sil hosted
it. She mad a LOT of foods, many of which I didn't like, but I was
able to put together a great plate and give lots of compliments for
what I did like. For things that looked possible, I took a very small
serving so that I could sample them. Anything I liked, I could get
more on a second pass. Anything I didn't like would leave only a
bite's worth on the plate. Things I could not identify, I simply asked
if they were spicy, as that one is safe to ask about and politely
refuse. I did get seconds one particular item and request the recipe
as I really liked it. And I was able to empty my plate and have
seconds, so my sil knew I enjoyed the dinner.

If she had made my plate, I would never have been able to eat it all.
And I would have been very embarrassed. By plating my own, I could
quietly avoid the things I do no like, and praise her for the things I
loved. She felt appreciated, and I had a great time.


I did bring my own pop along with a variety of pop to share. I only
drink one flavor of pop, and if no pop, then I will drink water, which
I do not enjoy. So, if I can bring my own pop, I will. I also take my
own pop to my favorite restaurant as nobody serves my pop anywhere
(Sunkist orange), and the water there tastes bad. So, there is
absolutely nothing for me to drink there. They are fine with that, and
I always buy an extra order to of my favorite dish to go, so I make a
decent purchase each time.

"ravenlynne" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/23/2010 10:15 AM, Lenona wrote:
>> This is a new column.
>>
>> http://www.buffalonews.com/life/colu...icle262608.ece
>>
>> Dear Miss Manners: Is it rude to bring your own stuffing because
>> you don’t like what the host is serving? (The “host” is my daughter,
>> and my boyfriend is the stuffing hater.)
>>
>> Gentle Reader: Since this is a family dinner, there is a polite way
>> for him to bring stuffing that he likes. All he has to do, Miss
>> Manners begs you to inform him, is to obtain your daughter’s
>> permission beforehand to bring it nicely packed inside of a freshly
>> cooked turkey.
>>
>>
>> (end)
>>
>> I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
>> extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it? In MY experience,
>> stuffing is something people often like MORE than the turkey - and
>> since, in my extended family, Thanksgiving dinner is always at the
>> same house, it would be wrong, in our opinions, for each of us NOT to
>> bring part of the meal - or an "extra" pie, stuffing or vegetable
>> dish. So all you'd have to do is bring a generous amount in case
>> everyone else prefers your stuffing too.
>>
>> But I do like MM's response to the next letter. Even though it
>> surprised me a bit.
>>
>> Lenona.
>
> I wouldn't do it. They're welcoming you into their home for a dinner that
> they are cooking you. You don't like it? Don't go. I'm surprised that
> the letter writer isn't more concerned about her daughter's feeling than
> her boyfriends. I think it's rude to bring your own because you don't like
> theirs.
>
It's pretty easy to pass the bowl along without spooning up anything you
don't like. You don't have to make excuses. Nor should you bring anything
other than a bottle of wine or maybe a loaf of bread or some other hostess
gift. Certainly not "I like my stuffing better".

I never feel obligated to eat everything that is offered to me. I may be a
guest but I'm not a prisoner

Jill

On Nov 23, 2:47*pm, Lenona > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 11:13*am, itsjoannotjoann >
> wrote:
>
>
> > Is this a restaurant or a nursing home?? *People are not allowed to
> > fill their own plates???? *Are y'all that messy when serving
> > yourselves someone else has to do it for you????????? *
>
> No, we're FORMAL. Everyone but three people or so sits down, partly to
> avoid crowding and foot traffic, but it's also gracious to let guests
> relax in their seats - especially the oldest ones.
>
>
Oh god, what a bore waiting to be served like everybody is either a
child or two senile to fill their own plate. I would have to speak up
and say I'll fill my own plate, thank you very much.
>
>
> The two or three volunteers
> (I'm often one of them, another would be the hostess) take specific
> orders, fill the plates, and serve.
>
>
> Lenona.
>
>
Do you wear a cheap diners apron, pencil behind your ear, and chewing
gum while taking 'orders??' Sounds like a family of control freaks
instead of a 'formal' meal. (Trying to re-create that Norman Rockwell
picture of the family holiday meal where granny places the platter of
turkey in front of gramps to carve?)

I bet conversation is not allowed while eating either. Geez, loosen
up and enjoy the holiday meal instead of being a control freak
waitress and the host/hostess needs to lighten up and enjoy the day,
too, instead of controlling portions.

On Nov 23, 11:15Â*am, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:53:39 -0600, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > Â*itsjoannotjoann > wrote:
>
> >> A food contribution to a meal should be something the host or hostess
> >> has _asked_ you to bring. Â*Not stuffing/dressing because you have a
> >> picky eater and just cannot fathom eating what has been prepared
> >> "because they don't like their version of stuffing/dressing."
>
> >> There are advice/manners columns because people like you don't
> >> understand the concept of being invited to a meal without bringing
> >> your own food because you whine "I don't like that." Â*Graciously
> >> accept the invitation and shut up about what you don't like that has
> >> been cooked. Â*Or stay home and cook what *you* want then you can't
> >> whine about some else's cooking.
>
> > Come to Minneapolis, joann€¹drinks are on me.
>
> <suspiciously> Â*what brands of booze do you stock?
>
> your pal,
> blake
>
>
She didn't invite you, she invited ME for drinks!

:-)~

On 11/24/2010 8:23 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
> "ravenlynne" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/23/2010 10:15 AM, Lenona wrote:
>>> This is a new column.
>>>
>>> http://www.buffalonews.com/life/colu...icle262608.ece
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Miss Manners: Is it rude to bring your own stuffing because
>>> you don’t like what the host is serving? (The “host” is my daughter,
>>> and my boyfriend is the stuffing hater.)
>>>
>>> Gentle Reader: Since this is a family dinner, there is a polite way
>>> for him to bring stuffing that he likes. All he has to do, Miss
>>> Manners begs you to inform him, is to obtain your daughter’s
>>> permission beforehand to bring it nicely packed inside of a freshly
>>> cooked turkey.
>>>
>>>
>>> (end)
>>>
>>> I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
>>> extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it? In MY experience,
>>> stuffing is something people often like MORE than the turkey - and
>>> since, in my extended family, Thanksgiving dinner is always at the
>>> same house, it would be wrong, in our opinions, for each of us NOT to
>>> bring part of the meal - or an "extra" pie, stuffing or vegetable
>>> dish. So all you'd have to do is bring a generous amount in case
>>> everyone else prefers your stuffing too.
>>>
>>> But I do like MM's response to the next letter. Even though it
>>> surprised me a bit.
>>>
>>> Lenona.
>>
>> I wouldn't do it. They're welcoming you into their home for a dinner
>> that they are cooking you. You don't like it? Don't go. I'm surprised
>> that the letter writer isn't more concerned about her daughter's
>> feeling than her boyfriends. I think it's rude to bring your own
>> because you don't like theirs.
>>
> It's pretty easy to pass the bowl along without spooning up anything you
> don't like. You don't have to make excuses. Nor should you bring
> anything other than a bottle of wine or maybe a loaf of bread or some
> other hostess gift. Certainly not "I like my stuffing better".
>
> I never feel obligated to eat everything that is offered to me. I may be
> a guest but I'm not a prisoner
>
> Jill

You can do it better than "I don't like what you made so I brought my
own" when someone invites you to dinner. Common sense and all.

--
Currently reading: The Chalice by Phil Rickman and The Walking Dead vol 3

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:46:56 -0800, David Harmon >
wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:12:45 -0800 in rec.food.cooking, sf
> > wrote,
> >On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:50:52 -0800, David Harmon >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:15:26 -0800 (PST) in rec.food.cooking, Lenona
> >> > wrote,
> >> >I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
> >> >extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it?
> >>
> >> You are perhaps expecting to stuff it inside the host's turkey?
> >> I don't personally favor stuffing; I would cook dressing in a pan
> >> alongside the turkey, but then it doesn't qualify as stuffing.
> >
> >That's baloney. They are interchangeable terms.
>
> No, they are not.

I stuff a turkey with dressing and eat both.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 06:42:20 -0800 (PST), itsjoannotjoann
> wrote:

>On Nov 23, 2:47*pm, Lenona > wrote:
>> On Nov 23, 11:13*am, itsjoannotjoann >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Is this a restaurant or a nursing home?? *People are not allowed to
>> > fill their own plates???? *Are y'all that messy when serving
>> > yourselves someone else has to do it for you????????? *
>>
>> No, we're FORMAL. Everyone but three people or so sits down, partly to
>> avoid crowding and foot traffic, but it's also gracious to let guests
>> relax in their seats - especially the oldest ones.
>>
>>
>Oh god, what a bore waiting to be served like everybody is either a
>child or two senile to fill their own plate. I would have to speak up
>and say I'll fill my own plate, thank you very much.
>>
>>
>> The two or three volunteers
>> (I'm often one of them, another would be the hostess) take specific
>> orders, fill the plates, and serve.
>>
>>
>> Lenona.
>>
>>
>Do you wear a cheap diners apron, pencil behind your ear, and chewing
>gum while taking 'orders??' Sounds like a family of control freaks
>instead of a 'formal' meal. (Trying to re-create that Norman Rockwell
>picture of the family holiday meal where granny places the platter of
>turkey in front of gramps to carve?)
>
>I bet conversation is not allowed while eating either. Geez, loosen
>up and enjoy the holiday meal instead of being a control freak
>waitress and the host/hostess needs to lighten up and enjoy the day,
>too, instead of controlling portions.

Not everyone was raised in a barn guzzling slop from a trough...
sowwweeee-grunt-grunt-grunt... hey joan, take human bites!

On Nov 23, 12:18*pm, blake murphy > wrote:

> gotta love miss manners. *funny lady.
>
> i saw her at a memorial concert for one of her washington *post*
> colleagues, and she looked elegant indeed, as you would expect.


Here's what I posted in Nov. 2002 in MM's newsgroup:

Saw her at a small gathering at the library last Wednesday. She has a
very nice smile and what surprised me, though I've heard her voice
before, was how down-to-earth it sounds. OK, deep. Anyway, some people
asked questions and one came from the Nigerian novelist S.A.(Sunny)
Abakwue, who asked: "If you had George Bush Sr, Saddam Hussein, George
Bush Jr, and Osama Bin Laden in this room, what would you tell
them?" (Big round of applause.) She told him if she thought
international diplomacy were as simple as etiquette, she would be only
too glad to take on the task,
but it's not the same thing, of course.

I asked her the name of a 17th-century Spanish play she had (in her
column) mentioned seeing with her teen daughter years ago in which the
painful differences, regarding rape, between then and now were made
clear. She said it was by
Calderon de la Barca and I managed to track down a likely candidate -
"The Mayor of Zalamea." (Apparently, it's not as Stone Age as you
might expect in its attitudes, if not quite humane.)

Also, I asked her why we still use the term "feminist" so much still
when black people have never felt the need for a word to describe
black people who believe in racial equality, and she said, in effect,
that it's simply a matter of wanting to preserve the memory of those
who fought for our current rights, paying them tribute, and
remembering when women who thought like that were in fact the
exception.

I also asked her if she liked "old-fashioned liberal" Wendy Kaminer's
books and she said yes. (Actually, I didn't describe her that way, but
I'm sure it wouldn't surprise her to hear that description. For those
not familiar with her, two of her books are "I'm Dysfunctional, You're
Dysfunctional" and the sarcastically titled "True Love Waits.")

Wonderful night, especially since I had friends along!

Lenona.

On Nov 23, 1:05*pm, "Ophelia" > wrote:
..
>
> I had only every heard of her. *This is the first time I had seen her
> quoted. *Not what I expected at all *She is a 'common sense' lady

Indexes for her syndicated columns, if you like:

http://www.buffalonews.com/life/colu.../miss-manners/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032501837.html
(almost the same; this includes a good many readers' comments, but be
careful or you'll be nagged to register)

http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationshi...mentid=8318975
(this has completely different columns from her, but the general
style is the same)

Indexes 1 and 3 tell you in advance what half the questions are going
to be.

I've posted a few of the columns in this ng, previously.

Lenona.

On Nov 23, 5:24*pm, Ranée at Arabian Knits >
wrote:

> If it were normal to bring whatever you
> wanted in this family or for multiples of the same dish to be made,
> there wouldn't have been a need to ask Miss Manners about it.


True - I didn't think of that until much later, since I can't remember
the last time I went to a Thanksgiving dinner where I WASN'T supposed
to cook something and bring it.

But I DO know that in my family, any non-relative who happened to come
was usually not expected to bring anything.

Lenona.

On Nov 24, 9:42 am, itsjoannotjoann > wrote:

(snip)

I forgot to say that since the dining table is long and somewhat
narrow, it only makes sense to put most of the food (especially
anything in a dish that is more than a foot long) on a separate table.
This is one reason there would be crowding and foot traffic if we
tried to serve ourselves.

And there is one very old relative who can barely walk, these days.

Lenona.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:12:15 -0600, Andy > wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
> > I stuff a turkey with dressing and eat both.
>
>
> sf,
>
> Wait a second!
>
> Dressing is out of the bird (pan) prepared. Stuffing is in the bird
> prepared!
>
> That's what I was told.

They make it up as they go along. It's been told and retold so many
times here in rfc that some people actually believe their own lies.
>
> That said, I eat bird and dressing as offered, all day long!
>
> Best,
>
> Andy


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

"Lenona" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 23, 1:05 pm, "Ophelia" > wrote:
> .
>>
>> I had only every heard of her. This is the first time I had seen her
>> quoted. Not what I expected at all She is a 'common sense' lady
>
> Indexes for her syndicated columns, if you like:
>
> http://www.buffalonews.com/life/colu.../miss-manners/
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032501837.html
> (almost the same; this includes a good many readers' comments, but be
> careful or you'll be nagged to register)
>
> http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationshi...mentid=8318975
> (this has completely different columns from her, but the general
> style is the same)
>
> Indexes 1 and 3 tell you in advance what half the questions are going
> to be.
>
> I've posted a few of the columns in this ng, previously.

Thank you, I shall have a look
--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:40:22 -0800, sf wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:12:07 -0500, blake murphy
> > wrote:
>
>> what's wrong with it is that it strongly implies the host is an incompetent
>> cook.
>
> No it doesn't. It sounds like there are quite a few people giving
> advice who don't know anything about hosting large family gatherings.
> Only an overly sensitive host would feel that was a way to say they're
> "incompetent" and with her boyfriend being Mr. Picky, it might be a
> relief to her DD that they're bring something he will like. I say
> she should go with her gut and bring it. <shrug> It's the male
> version of "happy wife, happy life" to me.
>
> Her family seems to be the come one, come all type and it also seems
> like contributions are welcomed. That way the host/hostess doesn't
> have to buy and prepare food for an army. After a while people in a
> family like that knows who usually brings what, so the possibility of
> 26 store-bought pumpkin pies isn't very likely.
>
> When the host makes a request, it can be for one of two reasons...
> people love what you usually make or they hate what you usually make -
> you'll know by the request.

well, this part:

'Is it rude to bring your own stuffing because you don¢t like what the host
is serving?'

....seems to imply that the host can't cook.

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:17:15 -0600, Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:53:39 -0600, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> itsjoannotjoann > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> A food contribution to a meal should be something the host or hostess
>>>> has _asked_ you to bring. Not stuffing/dressing because you have a
>>>> picky eater and just cannot fathom eating what has been prepared
>>>> "because they don't like their version of stuffing/dressing."
>>>>
>>>> There are advice/manners columns because people like you don't
>>>> understand the concept of being invited to a meal without bringing
>>>> your own food because you whine "I don't like that." Graciously
>>>> accept the invitation and shut up about what you don't like that has
>>>> been cooked. Or stay home and cook what *you* want then you can't
>>>> whine about some else's cooking.
>>>
>>> Come to Minneapolis, joann‹drinks are on me.
>>
>> <suspiciously> what brands of booze do you stock?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> I've a bunch of old stuff in the cabinet * we almost never drink hard
> liquor; Rob has some red wine around. There are a couple liquor stores
> within 2 miles of me, though.

you know i'm teasing, honey. i'd gladly eat (or drink) whatever you saw
fit to serve, or decline without comment.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 06:48:36 -0800 (PST), itsjoannotjoann wrote:

> On Nov 23, 11:15Â*am, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:53:39 -0600, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> Â*itsjoannotjoann > wrote:
>>
>>>> A food contribution to a meal should be something the host or hostess
>>>> has _asked_ you to bring. Â*Not stuffing/dressing because you have a
>>>> picky eater and just cannot fathom eating what has been prepared
>>>> "because they don't like their version of stuffing/dressing."
>>
>>>> There are advice/manners columns because people like you don't
>>>> understand the concept of being invited to a meal without bringing
>>>> your own food because you whine "I don't like that." Â*Graciously
>>>> accept the invitation and shut up about what you don't like that has
>>>> been cooked. Â*Or stay home and cook what *you* want then you can't
>>>> whine about some else's cooking.
>>
>>> Come to Minneapolis, joann€¹drinks are on me.
>>
>> <suspiciously> Â*what brands of booze do you stock?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>>
>>
> She didn't invite you, she invited ME for drinks!
>
> :-)~

i'm a great one for horning in.

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:42:14 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:15:26 -0800 (PST), Lenona >
> wrote:
>
>>This is a new column.
>>
>>http://www.buffalonews.com/life/colu...icle262608.ece
>>
>> Dear Miss Manners: Is it rude to bring your own stuffing because
>>you don’t like what the host is serving? (The “host” is my daughter,
>>and my boyfriend is the stuffing hater.)
>>
>>Gentle Reader: Since this is a family dinner, there is a polite way
>>for him to bring stuffing that he likes. All he has to do, Miss
>>Manners begs you to inform him, is to obtain your daughter’s
>>permission beforehand to bring it nicely packed inside of a freshly
>>cooked turkey.
>>
>>
>>(end)
>>
>>I don't understand MM's response. What's so terrible about bringing
>>extra stuffing without a turkey to go with it? In MY experience,
>>stuffing is something people often like MORE than the turkey - and
>>since, in my extended family, Thanksgiving dinner is always at the
>>same house, it would be wrong, in our opinions, for each of us NOT to
>>bring part of the meal - or an "extra" pie, stuffing or vegetable
>>dish. So all you'd have to do is bring a generous amount in case
>>everyone else prefers your stuffing too.
>>
>>But I do like MM's response to the next letter. Even though it
>>surprised me a bit.
>>
>>Lenona.
>
> I always apprise all guests NOT to bring any food, it will not be
> served... nor will it be stored in my fridge or even permitted inside
> my house. They can leave it in their automobile or I will happily
> toss it out in my yard for the critters, of course they may choose to
> just about face and leave (good riddance to bad rubbish).

it's your warmth that makes you a great host. at least that's what the
cats say.

blake

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:04:46 -0500, blake murphy
> wrote:

> well, this part:
>
> 'Is it rude to bring your own stuffing because you don¢t like what the host
> is serving?'
>
> ...seems to imply that the host can't cook.

It implies that *he* doesn't like the dressing her DD makes and
Mother, his GF, caters to his likes and dislikes. I certainly hope
he's really nice and that's his biggest flaw; but maybe he's a real
jerk and that's just the tip of the iceberg. What I don't think is
that it's a reflection on anyone's cooking ability. I personally
don't like meat (which is usually sausage) or shellfish in dressing,
but I wouldn't go to the extreme of bringing my own version just for
myself. Maybe I'd volunteer to bring a casserole of my dressing so
there could be a variety to choose from, but I sincerely doubt I'd
ever take it that far.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:53:05 -0600, Andy > wrote:

> You win!?

Doing the happy dance... what did I win???

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:14:33 -0500, ravenlynne
> arranged random neurons and said:

>My grandmother used to make great oyster dressing...I'm the only one I
>know who likes it so I don't bother.

Bill loves oyster dressing, but no one else does *and* IMHO, oysters
do NOT belong inside a turkey! His mother was born and raised in
Baltimore, so I suspect that's the source of this ill conceived idea


Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines


To reply, remove "spambot" and replace it with "cox"

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:23:32 -0500, "jmcquown" >
arranged random neurons and said:

>It's pretty easy to pass the bowl along without spooning up anything you
>don't like. You don't have to make excuses. Nor should you bring anything
>other than a bottle of wine or maybe a loaf of bread or some other hostess
>gift. Certainly not "I like my stuffing better".

I agree to a point. If I have a recipe that is different, ethnic, a
tradition with my (nuclear) family, I might ask the hostess if I might
bring it just as a "something different" offering for the table.
>
>I never feel obligated to eat everything that is offered to me. I may be a
>guest but I'm not a prisoner

Well said, Jill. I am a really picky eater and while I'll take a token
dab of something that I don't care for, I really dislike being pointed
out with a "why aren't you eating the [blank]?"

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines


To reply, remove "spambot" and replace it with "cox"

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 16:01:26 -0600, Andy > wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:53:05 -0600, Andy > wrote:
> >
> >> You win!?
> >
> > Doing the happy dance... what did I win???
>
>
> sf,
>
> My love or a years supply of fish tacos.
>
> I know, a troubled choice. ;D
>
<laughing>

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On 11/24/2010 5:21 PM, Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:14:33 -0500, ravenlynne
> > arranged random neurons and said:
>
>> My grandmother used to make great oyster dressing...I'm the only one I
>> know who likes it so I don't bother.
>
> Bill loves oyster dressing, but no one else does *and* IMHO, oysters
> do NOT belong inside a turkey! His mother was born and raised in
> Baltimore, so I suspect that's the source of this ill conceived idea
>
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>

But dressing doesn't go inside of a turkey!

And I agree lol.

--
Currently reading: The Chalice by Phil Rickman and The Walking Dead vol 3

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:03:45 -0500, ravenlynne
> arranged random neurons and said:

>On 11/24/2010 5:21 PM, Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:14:33 -0500, ravenlynne
>> > arranged random neurons and said:
>>
>>> My grandmother used to make great oyster dressing...I'm the only one I
>>> know who likes it so I don't bother.
>>
>> Bill loves oyster dressing, but no one else does *and* IMHO, oysters
>> do NOT belong inside a turkey! His mother was born and raised in
>> Baltimore, so I suspect that's the source of this ill conceived idea
>>
>>
>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>>
>
>But dressing doesn't go inside of a turkey!
>
>And I agree lol.

<eyeball rolling> Okay, here's what the Free Dictionary sez:

dress·ing (drsng)
n.

On 11/24/2010 6:13 PM, Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:03:45 -0500, ravenlynne
> > arranged random neurons and said:
>
>> On 11/24/2010 5:21 PM, Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:14:33 -0500, ravenlynne
>>> > arranged random neurons and said:
>>>
>>>> My grandmother used to make great oyster dressing...I'm the only one I
>>>> know who likes it so I don't bother.
>>>
>>> Bill loves oyster dressing, but no one else does *and* IMHO, oysters
>>> do NOT belong inside a turkey! His mother was born and raised in
>>> Baltimore, so I suspect that's the source of this ill conceived idea
>>>
>>>
>>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>>>
>>
>> But dressing doesn't go inside of a turkey!
>>
>> And I agree lol.
>
> <eyeball rolling> Okay, here's what the Free Dictionary sez:
>
> dress·ing (drsng)
> n.
> 1. A therapeutic or protective material applied to a wound.
> 2. A sauce for certain dishes, such as salads.
> 3. A stuffing, as for poultry or fish.
> 4. Manure or other fertilizing material for soil.
>
> I think the terms "dressing" and "stuffing" are pretty much regional
> and interchangeable.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>

I was teasing.

--
Currently reading: The Chalice by Phil Rickman and The Walking Dead vol 3

On 11/24/2010 5:30 PM, Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:23:32 -0500, >
> arranged random neurons and said:
>
>> It's pretty easy to pass the bowl along without spooning up anything you
>> don't like. You don't have to make excuses. Nor should you bring anything
>> other than a bottle of wine or maybe a loaf of bread or some other hostess
>> gift. Certainly not "I like my stuffing better".
>
> I agree to a point. If I have a recipe that is different, ethnic, a
> tradition with my (nuclear) family, I might ask the hostess if I might
> bring it just as a "something different" offering for the table.
>>
>> I never feel obligated to eat everything that is offered to me. I may be a
>> guest but I'm not a prisoner
>
> Well said, Jill. I am a really picky eater and while I'll take a token
> dab of something that I don't care for, I really dislike being pointed
> out with a "why aren't you eating the [blank]?"
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>

Nobody is saying the boyfriend is forced to eat the daughter's stuffing.
this whole line of logic is ridiculous.

--
Currently reading: The Chalice by Phil Rickman and The Walking Dead vol 3

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:03:45 -0500, ravenlynne
> > arranged random neurons and said:
>
>
>> On 11/24/2010 5:21 PM, Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:14:33 -0500, ravenlynne
>>> > arranged random neurons and said:
>>>
>>>
>>>> My grandmother used to make great oyster dressing...I'm the only one I
>>>> know who likes it so I don't bother.
>>>>
>>> Bill loves oyster dressing, but no one else does *and* IMHO, oysters
>>> do NOT belong inside a turkey! His mother was born and raised in
>>> Baltimore, so I suspect that's the source of this ill conceived idea
>>>
>>>
>>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>>>
>>>
>> But dressing doesn't go inside of a turkey!
>>
>> And I agree lol.
>>
> <eyeball rolling> Okay, here's what the Free Dictionary sez:
>
> dress·ing (drsng)
> n.
> 1. A therapeutic or protective material applied to a wound.
> 2. A sauce for certain dishes, such as salads.
> 3. A stuffing, as for poultry or fish.
> 4. Manure or other fertilizing material for soil.
>
> I think the terms "dressing" and "stuffing" are pretty much regional
> and interchangeable.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>
>
Yep.