I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey & it seems it
is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
wondering how folks made out here.

We do a few turkeys a year & I can't remember one being dried out. I
buy a 20ish pound frozen Butterball, or whatever is on sale. Thaw it
out for a week in the frig.

Take it out of the frig an hour or so before cooking to pat it down,
tie up the wings and slather some more butter on it.

I cook in a big old enamelware roaster with a rack. Add 2 cups of
broth, cover, and put in a 325 oven. I take the cover off in an
hour or so- and baste every 30 minutes thereafter. When it starts
to brown up I start taking its temp- shooting for 170F or so in the
thigh. It took about 4 hours this year.

Then I move it to the top of the stove, draw off the liquid for gravy
and tent or cover it.

I use the oven for an hour or so at 425- so the stovetop is toasty--
an hour later I'm burning my fingers while removing the steaming
breast. Thigh joints pop apart with ease & all is well cooked, but
moist.

Summary;
20 pound turkey- not stuffed
325F -
about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
was 180 when I took it out of the oven]

What works [or doesn't] for you?

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
...
>I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey & it seems it
> is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
> wondering how folks made out here.
>
> We do a few turkeys a year & I can't remember one being dried out. I
> buy a 20ish pound frozen Butterball, or whatever is on sale. Thaw it
> out for a week in the frig.
>
> Take it out of the frig an hour or so before cooking to pat it down,
> tie up the wings and slather some more butter on it.
>
> I cook in a big old enamelware roaster with a rack. Add 2 cups of
> broth, cover, and put in a 325 oven. I take the cover off in an
> hour or so- and baste every 30 minutes thereafter. When it starts
> to brown up I start taking its temp- shooting for 170F or so in the
> thigh. It took about 4 hours this year.
>
> Then I move it to the top of the stove, draw off the liquid for gravy
> and tent or cover it.
>
> I use the oven for an hour or so at 425- so the stovetop is toasty--
> an hour later I'm burning my fingers while removing the steaming
> breast. Thigh joints pop apart with ease & all is well cooked, but
> moist.
>
> Summary;
> 20 pound turkey- not stuffed
> 325F -
> about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
> was 180 when I took it out of the oven]
>
> What works [or doesn't] for you?

180 is way too hot. 160 is quite acceptable. 20 pounder for me cooks at
375 for about 3 hours.

Paul

On Nov 27, 2:40*pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey & it seems it
> > is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
> > wondering how folks made out here.
>
> > We do a few turkeys a year & I can't remember one being dried out. I
> > buy a 20ish pound frozen Butterball, or whatever is on sale. * Thaw it
> > out for a week in the frig.
>
> > Take it out of the frig an hour or so before cooking to pat it down,
> > tie up the wings and slather some more butter on it.
>
> > I cook in a big old enamelware roaster with a rack. * Add 2 cups of
> > broth, cover, and put in a 325 oven. * * I take the cover off in an
> > hour or so- and baste every 30 minutes thereafter. * *When it starts
> > to brown up I start taking its temp- shooting for 170F or so in the
> > thigh. * *It took about 4 hours this year.
>
> > Then I move it to the top of the stove, draw off the liquid for gravy
> > and tent or cover it.
>
> > I use the oven for an hour or so at 425- so the stovetop is toasty--
> > an hour later I'm burning my fingers while removing the steaming
> > breast. *Thigh joints pop apart with ease & all is well cooked, but
> > moist.
>
> > Summary;
> > 20 pound turkey- not stuffed
> > 325F -
> > about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
> > was 180 when I took it out of the oven]
>
> > What works [or doesn't] for you?
>
> 180 is way too hot. *160 is quite acceptable. *20 pounder for me cooks at
> 375 for about 3 hours.
>
> Paul

The free range 13 pounder was done perfect in a hour and 45 minutes.
We flash cook it at 500 for 30 minutes then about an hour and 15
minutes. Perfect!

"BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:40:53 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey & it seems it
>>> is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
>>> wondering how folks made out here.
>>>
>>> We do a few turkeys a year & I can't remember one being dried out. I
>>> buy a 20ish pound frozen Butterball, or whatever is on sale. Thaw it
>>> out for a week in the frig.
>>>
>>> Take it out of the frig an hour or so before cooking to pat it down,
>>> tie up the wings and slather some more butter on it.
>>>
>>> I cook in a big old enamelware roaster with a rack. Add 2 cups of
>>> broth, cover, and put in a 325 oven. I take the cover off in an
>>> hour or so- and baste every 30 minutes thereafter. When it starts
>>> to brown up I start taking its temp- shooting for 170F or so in the
>>> thigh. It took about 4 hours this year.
>>>
>>> Then I move it to the top of the stove, draw off the liquid for gravy
>>> and tent or cover it.
>>>
>>> I use the oven for an hour or so at 425- so the stovetop is toasty--
>>> an hour later I'm burning my fingers while removing the steaming
>>> breast. Thigh joints pop apart with ease & all is well cooked, but
>>> moist.
>>>
>>> Summary;
>>> 20 pound turkey- not stuffed
>>> 325F -
>>> about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
>>> was 180 when I took it out of the oven]
>>>
>>> What works [or doesn't] for you?
>>
>>180 is way too hot. 160 is quite acceptable. 20 pounder for me cooks at
>>375 for about 3 hours.
>
> I thought so, too, but 180 (thigh) is the temp that was on the
> roasting instructions that came with the bird (Butterball). So I
> checked their site:
>
> http://www.butterball.com/tips-how-t...-tos/roast#one
>
> But all my other cookbooks/recipes said 165 (meat temp, not stuffing
> temp).

180F is the USDA recommended temperature to make the lawyers happy. Well
the defense lawyers anyway. Nobody ever died eating turkey cooked to 160.
Any more than 160 and you're talking shoe leather.

Paul

On Nov 27, 4:44*pm, Chemo the Clown > wrote:
> On Nov 27, 2:40*pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
>
> .. .
>
> > >I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey & it seems it
> > > is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
> > > wondering how folks made out here.
>
> > > We do a few turkeys a year & I can't remember one being dried out. I
> > > buy a 20ish pound frozen Butterball, or whatever is on sale. * Thaw it
> > > out for a week in the frig.
>
> > > Take it out of the frig an hour or so before cooking to pat it down,
> > > tie up the wings and slather some more butter on it.
>
> > > I cook in a big old enamelware roaster with a rack. * Add 2 cups of
> > > broth, cover, and put in a 325 oven. * * I take the cover off in an
> > > hour or so- and baste every 30 minutes thereafter. * *When it starts
> > > to brown up I start taking its temp- shooting for 170F or so in the
> > > thigh. * *It took about 4 hours this year.
>
> > > Then I move it to the top of the stove, draw off the liquid for gravy
> > > and tent or cover it.
>
> > > I use the oven for an hour or so at 425- so the stovetop is toasty--
> > > an hour later I'm burning my fingers while removing the steaming
> > > breast. *Thigh joints pop apart with ease & all is well cooked, but
> > > moist.
>
> > > Summary;
> > > 20 pound turkey- not stuffed
> > > 325F -
> > > about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
> > > was 180 when I took it out of the oven]
>
> > > What works [or doesn't] for you?
>
> > 180 is way too hot. *160 is quite acceptable. *20 pounder for me cooks at
> > 375 for about 3 hours.
>
> > Paul
>
> The free range 13 pounder was done perfect in a hour and 45 minutes.
> We flash cook it at 500 for 30 minutes then about an hour and 15
> minutes. Perfect!

I stuffed the turkey with hot stuffing, and cut the drumsticks part
way from the thighs so I could bend it forward and tuck the ends under
the lifting handles in the roasting pan from my electric roaster.
http://www.hamiltonbeach.com/roaster...ffet-pans.html
I didn't use the electric unit, but put it in the oven at 475F, breast
up, but with the breast well tented, the wing tips tucked under, and
the neck over the tent. I used the gizzard to cap the back end of the
thoroughly stuffed cavity, and the heart to cap the neck hole, which
I'd also stuffed, and put in some Trader Joe's turkey broth. I did
this for about a half hour or a bit longer, then reduced the heat to
325 for about an hour. Then I put the legs and wings back into their
regular position for another half hour or so, then took the foil off
the breast, added more broth, and gave it another half hour. When the
breast was just browned, I took it out of the gas oven and put it in
the roaster with two containers of TJ's turkey gravy, and set the
roaster at 200 for another 45 minutes or so, then turned the roaster
off and didn't carve for another 15 minutes. That freed up the oven
for other stuff. Other than the stuffing being too soggy, and a bit
too salty for others' tastes, it was close to perfect. The other
imperfection with the stuffing was that I parboiled the celery for too
long.
The gravy was admittedly far less than perfect, but I am really
impressed by the quality of TJ's carton pack gravy when added to the
drippings in the pan.

--Bryan

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:35:51 -0500, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey & it seems it
> is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
> wondering how folks made out here.

Don't believe everything you see/read in the news. People are
easily manipulated by the news.

-sw

"Chemo the Clown" wrote in message
...

On Nov 27, 2:40 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>

The free range 13 pounder was done perfect in a hour and 45 minutes.
We flash cook it at 500 for 30 minutes then about an hour and 15
minutes. Perfect!


OK, 30 mins @500oF, then 1 hour 15 mins @ what temperature is that at?

-- Bigbazza (Barry) Oz

Yesterday is already a dream and tomorrow is only a vision, but today well
lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision
of hope.

BlueBrooke > wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:40:53 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
. ..
-snip-
>>> Summary;
>>> 20 pound turkey- not stuffed
>>> 325F -
>>> about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
>>> was 180 when I took it out of the oven]
>>>
>>> What works [or doesn't] for you?
>>
>>180 is way too hot. 160 is quite acceptable. 20 pounder for me cooks at
>>375 for about 3 hours.
>
>I thought so, too, but 180 (thigh) is the temp that was on the
>roasting instructions that came with the bird (Butterball). So I
>checked their site:
>
>http://www.butterball.com/tips-how-t...-tos/roast#one
>
>But all my other cookbooks/recipes said 165 (meat temp, not stuffing
>temp).

The 'cook' on one of the morning shows Thursday said the stuffing
should be 165, too. she recommended taking it out of the bird when
the thigh reached 165 and finishing it in the oven if it wasn't 165.

She also said that the old recommendation was 180, but 165 was good,
now.

I was aiming for 170 with the thigh-- 180 was an overshoot. But the
bird was perfect- everything cooked, and nothing dry. I think 325 is
more forgiving.

Jim

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 15:36:32 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> The gravy was admittedly far less than perfect, but I am really
> impressed by the quality of TJ's carton pack gravy when added to the
> drippings in the pan.

I saw turkey *broth*, they also had gravy?

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:20:19 +1100, " Bigbazza" >
wrote:

> "Chemo the Clown" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Nov 27, 2:40 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> > "Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
>
> The free range 13 pounder was done perfect in a hour and 45 minutes.
> We flash cook it at 500 for 30 minutes then about an hour and 15
> minutes. Perfect!
>
>
> OK, 30 mins @500oF, then 1 hour 15 mins @ what temperature is that at?
>
> -- Bigbazza (Barry) Oz
>
> Yesterday is already a dream and tomorrow is only a vision, but today well
> lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision
> of hope.
>
Barry, since you're not going to get a proper news reader that inserts
the proper quote marks when it should.... would you please take the
time to do it yourself?

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

I usually cook a 14 pound turkey unstuffed at 325 or 350 and it cooks
in 2 1/2 hours.

This year I decided to try something different and stuff the turkey
with aromatics; I quartered an onion, and cut an apple, orange, lime
and lemon into wedges and stuffed the turkey with that. I was worried
that the juices which rendered in the cooking bag would taste like
citrus juices and not turkey juices, but they did not and the gravy I
made from the drippings was delicious. It took a lot longer to cook
this year, maybe 3 1/2 hours but the turkey was very moist and
delicious. Needless to say when I removed the turkey from the bag I
discarded the fruit and onion.

On Nov 27, 8:22*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 15:36:32 -0800 (PST), Bryan
>
> > wrote:
> > The gravy was admittedly far less than perfect, but I am really
> > impressed by the quality of TJ's carton pack gravy when added to the
> > drippings in the pan.
>
> I saw turkey *broth*, they also had gravy?
>
Yes. Lots of boxes left when I picked up a few more on Friday.

--Bryan

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:29:46 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> On Nov 27, 8:22*pm, sf > wrote:
> > On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 15:36:32 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > The gravy was admittedly far less than perfect, but I am really
> > > impressed by the quality of TJ's carton pack gravy when added to the
> > > drippings in the pan.
> >
> > I saw turkey *broth*, they also had gravy?
> >
> Yes. Lots of boxes left when I picked up a few more on Friday.
>
I need to go there today, so I'll take a look.


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:35:51 -0500, Jim Elbrecht >
wrote:

>I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey & it seems it
>is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
>wondering how folks made out here.
>
>We do a few turkeys a year & I can't remember one being dried out. I
>buy a 20ish pound frozen Butterball, or whatever is on sale. Thaw it
>out for a week in the frig.
>
>Take it out of the frig an hour or so before cooking to pat it down,
>tie up the wings and slather some more butter on it.
>
>I cook in a big old enamelware roaster with a rack. Add 2 cups of
>broth, cover, and put in a 325 oven. I take the cover off in an
>hour or so- and baste every 30 minutes thereafter. When it starts
>to brown up I start taking its temp- shooting for 170F or so in the
>thigh. It took about 4 hours this year.
>
>Then I move it to the top of the stove, draw off the liquid for gravy
>and tent or cover it.
>
>I use the oven for an hour or so at 425- so the stovetop is toasty--
>an hour later I'm burning my fingers while removing the steaming
>breast. Thigh joints pop apart with ease & all is well cooked, but
>moist.
>
>Summary;
>20 pound turkey- not stuffed
>325F -
>about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
>was 180 when I took it out of the oven]
>
>What works [or doesn't] for you?
>
>Jim

Brined the 22 lb turkey the night before. Rinsed the living h*ll out
of it. (About fifteen minutes of rinsing and draining, and don't
forget to drain those pockets of liquid under the skin.) On the rack
upside down, into a 325 oven for two hours. No basting, no butter, no
oil, no foil. No nothing.

Flip it (see other post), insert probe thermometer, back into the
oven. Go upstairs on the computer and read rec.food.cooking til the
thermometer hollers. ;-) (two more hours). The turkey is the easy
part of the day.
--
Best -- Terry

On 11/27/2010 02:35 PM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey& it seems it
> is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
> wondering how folks made out here.

Outstanding over here. My turkey was so moist that even I liked it. The
breast was incredibly juicy (James called the white meat "exceptional";
Carin said it was "a revelation". I'm not a huge poultry fan, so I fell
back on the wisdom of the ages and used a thermometer. (I also roasted
it for 2/3 of the time breast-down and the rest breast-up.)

(325F, ballparked the time with the charts at
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/...rkey/index.asp )

Serene
--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

Michael O'Connor wrote:
>
> I usually cook a 14 pound turkey unstuffed at 325 or 350 and it cooks
> in 2 1/2 hours.

I despise rare turkey. I want the meat to almost fall off the bones
when I carve it. I also want my bird to be moist and delicious. Done
right there is no conflict between those two - Work with the cover and
with liquid in the bottom of the pan. Too much liquid and the bird
steams. Too little liquid and the bird dries. There's a happy medium
of liquid in the pan that keeps the bird moist but let's it get crispy.

I think 10 minutes per pound results in rare turkey so I figure at 325
somewhere after 15 minutes per pound and before 20 minutes per pound.
I use the thermometer probe starting at the 15 minutes per pound point.

> This year I decided to try something different and stuff the turkey
> with aromatics; I quartered an onion, and cut an apple, orange, lime
> and lemon into wedges and stuffed the turkey with that. I was worried
> that the juices which rendered in the cooking bag would taste like
> citrus juices and not turkey juices, but they did not and the gravy I
> made from the drippings was delicious. It took a lot longer to cook
> this year, maybe 3 1/2 hours but the turkey was very moist and
> delicious. Needless to say when I removed the turkey from the bag I
> discarded the fruit and onion.

For maybe 10 years we've done the loose toss method like that.
Quartered apples, onions, sprigs of fresh herbs from the garden. Toss
them when carving. Make a dressing separately rather than a stuffing in
the bird.

On 11/29/2010 12:08 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Michael O'Connor wrote:
>>
>> I usually cook a 14 pound turkey unstuffed at 325 or 350 and it cooks
>> in 2 1/2 hours.
>
> I despise rare turkey. I want the meat to almost fall off the bones
> when I carve it. I also want my bird to be moist and delicious. Done
> right there is no conflict between those two - Work with the cover and
> with liquid in the bottom of the pan.

I did this accidentally once, don't know what I did. It was the first
time I cooked it for my grandparents. I pulled it out and it had fallen
apart. I cried. We ate it and all agreed we had never had a juicier
turkey. It just wasn't the
pretty-carve-at-the-table-with-norman-rockwell picture. I don't know how
I did it and couldn't reproduce it even if I wanted to.

>> This year I decided to try something different and stuff the turkey
>> with aromatics; I quartered an onion, and cut an apple, orange, lime
>> and lemon into wedges and stuffed the turkey with that. I was worried
>> that the juices which rendered in the cooking bag would taste like
>> citrus juices and not turkey juices, but they did not and the gravy I
>> made from the drippings was delicious. It took a lot longer to cook
>> this year, maybe 3 1/2 hours but the turkey was very moist and
>> delicious. Needless to say when I removed the turkey from the bag I
>> discarded the fruit and onion.

I do this all the time with chicken. Makes delicious gravy. I think
the fruit helps create moisture from the inside of the bird. Just a
theory, take it fwiw.



--
Currently reading: The Chalice by Phil Rickman and The Walking Dead vol 3

ravenlynne wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>> I despise rare turkey. I want the meat to almost fall off the bones
>> when I carve it. I also want my bird to be moist and delicious. Done
>> right there is no conflict between those two - Work with the cover and
>> with liquid in the bottom of the pan.
>
> I did this accidentally once, don't know what I did. It was the first
> time I cooked it for my grandparents. I pulled it out and it had fallen
> apart. I cried. We ate it and all agreed we had never had a juicier
> turkey. It just wasn't the
> pretty-carve-at-the-table-with-norman-rockwell picture. I don't know how
> I did it and couldn't reproduce it even if I wanted to.

I keep some chicken or turkey broth in a measuring cup and baste every
half hour. If there's enough liquid on the bottom of the pan there is
no need to tilt the pan to get enough into the baster don't add any more
broth. If you need to tilt the pan to fill the baster with liquid add a
couple of basters of broth to the bird. Doing this keeps the oven from
drying out too mcuh and keeps the bird moist. It also keeps me checking
the termometer every half hour so it gets to the point of being ready to
fall off the bone not to actually falling off the bone. I've done that
once too. Delicious but not as pretty.

Toasty bones are supposed to make better broth. I've never but the
post-carve bones back into the oven but it should make really good soup
doing that.

On 11/27/2010 12:35 PM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> I see so many folks complaining about dried out turkey& it seems it
> is the theme of every news show for a week before T-giving so I'm
> wondering how folks made out here.
>
> We do a few turkeys a year& I can't remember one being dried out. I
> buy a 20ish pound frozen Butterball, or whatever is on sale. Thaw it
> out for a week in the frig.
>
> Take it out of the frig an hour or so before cooking to pat it down,
> tie up the wings and slather some more butter on it.
>
> I cook in a big old enamelware roaster with a rack. Add 2 cups of
> broth, cover, and put in a 325 oven. I take the cover off in an
> hour or so- and baste every 30 minutes thereafter. When it starts
> to brown up I start taking its temp- shooting for 170F or so in the
> thigh. It took about 4 hours this year.
>
> Then I move it to the top of the stove, draw off the liquid for gravy
> and tent or cover it.
>
> I use the oven for an hour or so at 425- so the stovetop is toasty--
> an hour later I'm burning my fingers while removing the steaming
> breast. Thigh joints pop apart with ease& all is well cooked, but
> moist.
>
> Summary;
> 20 pound turkey- not stuffed
> 325F -
> about 4 hours [that's only 12 minutes per pound-- but the thigh temp
> was 180 when I took it out of the oven]
>
> What works [or doesn't] for you?

I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs. I just
hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
me. I've always been a practical sort. :-)

>
> Jim

On 11/29/2010 3:39 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs. I just
>> hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
>> me. I've always been a practical sort. :-)
>
> <lol> I LIKE that concept!!!

Most folks can't hack the idea of mutilating their beautiful bird -
you'd think it was their legs they were cutting off! :-) I also defrost
and brine the bird simultaneously. None of that 3 days to defrost in the
fridge - I just put the frozen turkey in salt water at room temperature.
The salt facilitates a fast thaw. Of course, this is in Hawaii where the
temperature doesn't get much below 70 degrees.

dsi1 > wrote:
>
> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.

Most folks roast their turkey upside down... position it as it walks,
breast down/dark meat up, so it can self baste... or simply
rotisserie.

On 11/29/2010 5:15 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > wrote:
>>
>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.
>
> Most folks roast their turkey upside down... position it as it walks,
> breast down/dark meat up, so it can self baste... or simply
> rotisserie.

I've roasted turkey upside down and also basted but wouldn't do it
anymore. I've never rotisseried a turkey but there's no point in doing
that - too much trouble.

On 11/29/2010 5:24 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> On 11/29/2010 3:39 PM, Omelet wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>>>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs. I just
>>>> hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
>>>> me. I've always been a practical sort. :-)
>>>
>>> <lol> I LIKE that concept!!!
>>
>> Most folks can't hack the idea of mutilating their beautiful bird -
>> you'd think it was their legs they were cutting off! :-) I also defrost
>> and brine the bird simultaneously. None of that 3 days to defrost in the
>> fridge - I just put the frozen turkey in salt water at room temperature.
>> The salt facilitates a fast thaw. Of course, this is in Hawaii where the
>> temperature doesn't get much below 70 degrees.
>
> Interesting concept. So how long do you brine and thaw, and do you bury
> it in ice? My bird's been in the 'frige now for 4 days. It's thawed
> and won't spoil soon, but I do need to cook it here asap!

It's possible to thaw a large 22 lb bird in around 16 hours. Stick the
frozen bird in a 5 gal bucket with the brine - I use just salt water.
I've been assuming that the salt retards the growth of any nasty bugs.

>
> I just consider brining an injected bird to be overkill.

You are correct about this. Brining a injected bird is a bad idea. I
haven't figured out how to quickly thaw an injected bird. Maybe it ain't
possible. That's the breaks.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:18:34 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> On 11/29/2010 5:15 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > > wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
> >> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.
> >
> > Most folks roast their turkey upside down... position it as it walks,
> > breast down/dark meat up, so it can self baste... or simply
> > rotisserie.
>
> I've roasted turkey upside down and also basted but wouldn't do it
> anymore. I've never rotisseried a turkey but there's no point in doing
> that - too much trouble.

FWIW: "Most folks" *don't* roast their turkey upside down. I
certainly wouldn't. I tried that once with chicken. Couldn't tell
the difference and the bird looked horrible with all those
indentations on the breast. For chicken, a vertical roaster is the
way to go. IMO, the *best* turkey is one that has been cooked with
indirect heat on a charcoal grill with all that good smoke. I seem to
be the only one in my family who likes it that way, but since I'm the
one who does the cooking - my vote out votes all the others.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On 11/29/2010 10:18 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:18:34 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> On 11/29/2010 5:15 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>>>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.
>>>
>>> Most folks roast their turkey upside down... position it as it walks,
>>> breast down/dark meat up, so it can self baste... or simply
>>> rotisserie.
>>
>> I've roasted turkey upside down and also basted but wouldn't do it
>> anymore. I've never rotisseried a turkey but there's no point in doing
>> that - too much trouble.
>
> FWIW: "Most folks" *don't* roast their turkey upside down. I
> certainly wouldn't. I tried that once with chicken. Couldn't tell
> the difference and the bird looked horrible with all those
> indentations on the breast. For chicken, a vertical roaster is the
> way to go. IMO, the *best* turkey is one that has been cooked with
> indirect heat on a charcoal grill with all that good smoke. I seem to
> be the only one in my family who likes it that way, but since I'm the
> one who does the cooking - my vote out votes all the others.
>

I'm glad most folks don't cook their turkeys in this upside down manner
which produces a funky looking breast. This would be perfect for people
that have given up all hopes of getting an attractive bird. Personally,
I'd rather have a juicy bird that didn't look all funky pale and wrinkly.

My dad used to cook/smoke chickens and turkeys and beef in a 55 gal
drum. That was pretty tasty. His only seasonings was Hawaiian salt and
pepper and he never marinated. The air to smoke ration produced a
product with a shocking pink look caused by exposure to carbon monoxide.
He'd always make this for Christmas but my mother's death brought an end
to this. One thing's for sure, a mother's passing will sever many ties
and traditions. I'm gonna have to grill him on this and find out his
secrets.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.

Some folks cover the breast with buttered cheesecloth to keep it from
over cooking.

> I just
> hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
> me. I've always been a practical sort. :-)

I saw that on Food TV this year.

dsi1 wrote:
> On 11/29/2010 3:39 PM, Omelet wrote:
>> In >,
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs. I just
>>> hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
>>> me. I've always been a practical sort. :-)
>>
>> <lol> I LIKE that concept!!!
>
> Most folks can't hack the idea of mutilating their beautiful bird -
> you'd think it was their legs they were cutting off! :-) I also defrost
> and brine the bird simultaneously. None of that 3 days to defrost in the
> fridge - I just put the frozen turkey in salt water at room temperature.
> The salt facilitates a fast thaw. Of course, this is in Hawaii where the
> temperature doesn't get much below 70 degrees.

You also have plenty of salt water <g>

I just thaw the turkey in the kitchen sink overnight; take it out of
the freezer right before I go to bed, and then open it up early the
next morning to cook it. It's still frozen, mostly. But it thaws
enough to unwrap it easier and maybe to get the giblet bag out.
Sometimes I have to wait until it's been in the roaster for an hour to
retrieve the giblets and neck.

Bob

Christine Dabney > wrote:

>>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.

>Harold McGee recommends packing the breasts with ice around them...to
>keep them cooler than the rest of the bird. Says it makes them cook
>more evenly.

I tried this once, with duck. It did not work at all. I do not
know why, I am pretty sure the bird went in the oven with breast
temperature much lower than the rest of the bird. Still the
breast was relatively overcooked, although the entire cooking process
seemed to go slower.

Steve

dsi1 wrote:
>
> I've roasted turkey upside down and also basted but wouldn't do it
> anymore.

I have roasts ducks upside down. As it cooks the fat melts out of the
bird and it runs down through the breast automatically basting it. The
duck is done when the fat stops dripping out of it so there's no need
for a thermometer. Turkeys are not fat enough for this method to make a
large difference.

> I've never rotisseried a turkey but there's no point in doing
> that - too much trouble.

I tried it once. It worked great but was a gigantic hassle. It was
very hard to find a bird small enough to fit on the skewer at all. Then
the skewer turned out too thin so the bird bounced around and I had to
wrap it in a metal mesh to hold it in place. Then the motor started
making griding noises. Then it was finally done and the turkey was
delicious beyond the power of prose to express.

Murky turkey, smokey and jerky. Motor grinds and mesh that binds.
Aroma devine, no need to brine. While it's in the rotisserie go to
the pastesterie. Meat course crispy, dessert rice crispy. A meal fit
for Thor, we all wanted more!

I decided it was not worth getting a bigger meaner rotisserie set up to
do another. A regular rotisserie works great for a duck or a chicken or
a pair of game hens. A turkey calls for a massive rig.

It might be fun to weld together a turkey rotisserie rig. I remember my
brother doing an annual whole pig roast on a rotesserie rig the size of
a car and welding it was major fun, and an excuse to get an arc welder.
If you've never thought of an arc welder as a cooking gadget you have
not yet made a whole rotisserie hog.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:44:05 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> My dad used to cook/smoke chickens and turkeys and beef in a 55 gal
> drum. That was pretty tasty. His only seasonings was Hawaiian salt and
> pepper and he never marinated. The air to smoke ration produced a
> product with a shocking pink look caused by exposure to carbon monoxide.

Mine had what they'd call a smoke ring, but that's as pink as it got.
I wasn't smoking it on purpose, it's just what happened when cooking
(fast) with indirect heat and fat hit the pan creating smoke.

> He'd always make this for Christmas but my mother's death brought an end
> to this. One thing's for sure, a mother's passing will sever many ties
> and traditions. I'm gonna have to grill him on this and find out his
> secrets.

Absolutely! I have so many little questions about family history and
their childhood that will never be answered because my mother and her
brother have both passed on.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On 11/30/2010 6:38 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.
>
> Some folks cover the breast with buttered cheesecloth to keep it from
> over cooking.

There's various methods of protecting the breast from over cooking. Some
folks will cover the breast with foil or a layer of bacon - I haven't
heard of the buttered cheesecloth. I'm guessing that if you do all
three, it might work.

>
>> I just
>> hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
>> me. I've always been a practical sort. :-)
>
> I saw that on Food TV this year.

Once you get a feel for how heat flows through the big bird, you'd
pretty much have to reach the conclusion that this is the only way to
go. It took me a decade to figure this one out.

On 11/30/2010 6:40 AM, zxcvbob wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 11/29/2010 3:39 PM, Omelet wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>>>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs. I just
>>>> hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
>>>> me. I've always been a practical sort. :-)
>>>
>>> <lol> I LIKE that concept!!!
>>
>> Most folks can't hack the idea of mutilating their beautiful bird -
>> you'd think it was their legs they were cutting off! :-) I also
>> defrost and brine the bird simultaneously. None of that 3 days to
>> defrost in the fridge - I just put the frozen turkey in salt water at
>> room temperature. The salt facilitates a fast thaw. Of course, this is
>> in Hawaii where the temperature doesn't get much below 70 degrees.
>
> You also have plenty of salt water <g>
>
> I just thaw the turkey in the kitchen sink overnight; take it out of the
> freezer right before I go to bed, and then open it up early the next
> morning to cook it. It's still frozen, mostly. But it thaws enough to
> unwrap it easier and maybe to get the giblet bag out. Sometimes I have
> to wait until it's been in the roaster for an hour to retrieve the
> giblets and neck.

I will try this the next time I get an injected bird. Thanks!

>
> Bob

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:41:15 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
> wrote,
>I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs. I just
>hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
>me.

That's what Mark Bittman said to do. That's what I did.

But I saw two other proposals on TV. One cook chilled the breast
with bags of ice in a bowl before cooking. Doesn't sound practical
to me. She said the breast should end up 20 degrees cooler than the
rest, so she starts with it 20 degrees cooler. The problem with
that IMO is cooking is not just passive heating.

Another gave the dark meat an early start by dangling the bird with
the rear end in a pot of simmering broth for a while before
roasting. That would probably work, but what a bother.

On 11/30/2010 6:56 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> I've roasted turkey upside down and also basted but wouldn't do it
>> anymore.
>
> I have roasts ducks upside down. As it cooks the fat melts out of the
> bird and it runs down through the breast automatically basting it. The
> duck is done when the fat stops dripping out of it so there's no need
> for a thermometer. Turkeys are not fat enough for this method to make a
> large difference.
>
>> I've never rotisseried a turkey but there's no point in doing
>> that - too much trouble.
>
> I tried it once. It worked great but was a gigantic hassle. It was
> very hard to find a bird small enough to fit on the skewer at all. Then
> the skewer turned out too thin so the bird bounced around and I had to
> wrap it in a metal mesh to hold it in place. Then the motor started
> making griding noises. Then it was finally done and the turkey was
> delicious beyond the power of prose to express.

How about "really, super, super, delicious?" I'll take your word for it. :-)

>
> Murky turkey, smokey and jerky. Motor grinds and mesh that binds.
> Aroma devine, no need to brine. While it's in the rotisserie go to
> the pastesterie. Meat course crispy, dessert rice crispy. A meal fit
> for Thor, we all wanted more!
>
> I decided it was not worth getting a bigger meaner rotisserie set up to
> do another. A regular rotisserie works great for a duck or a chicken or
> a pair of game hens. A turkey calls for a massive rig.
>
> It might be fun to weld together a turkey rotisserie rig. I remember my
> brother doing an annual whole pig roast on a rotesserie rig the size of
> a car and welding it was major fun, and an excuse to get an arc welder.
> If you've never thought of an arc welder as a cooking gadget you have
> not yet made a whole rotisserie hog.

I never was much into arc welding - I have to say that the guys that are
tend to be fun guys. :-)

On 11/30/2010 7:42 AM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:44:05 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> My dad used to cook/smoke chickens and turkeys and beef in a 55 gal
>> drum. That was pretty tasty. His only seasonings was Hawaiian salt and
>> pepper and he never marinated. The air to smoke ration produced a
>> product with a shocking pink look caused by exposure to carbon monoxide.
>
> Mine had what they'd call a smoke ring, but that's as pink as it got.
> I wasn't smoking it on purpose, it's just what happened when cooking
> (fast) with indirect heat and fat hit the pan creating smoke.
>
>> He'd always make this for Christmas but my mother's death brought an end
>> to this. One thing's for sure, a mother's passing will sever many ties
>> and traditions. I'm gonna have to grill him on this and find out his
>> secrets.
>
> Absolutely! I have so many little questions about family history and
> their childhood that will never be answered because my mother and her
> brother have both passed on.
>

People tend to always leave before we're ready. It's a good idea to ask
our questions early and often, I guess.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:18:28 -0800 in rec.food.cooking, sf
> wrote,
>On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:18:34 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> On 11/29/2010 5:15 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> > > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>> >> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs.
>> >
>> > Most folks roast their turkey upside down... position it as it walks,
>> > breast down/dark meat up, so it can self baste... or simply
>> > rotisserie.
>>
>> I've roasted turkey upside down and also basted but wouldn't do it
>> anymore. I've never rotisseried a turkey but there's no point in doing
>> that - too much trouble.
>
>FWIW: "Most folks" *don't* roast their turkey upside down. I
>certainly wouldn't. I tried that once with chicken. Couldn't tell
>the difference and the bird looked horrible with all those
>indentations on the breast.

Now you are arguing about which way is up! Clearly, a turkey walks
with his spine up and breast down, so that way is rightside up.
That's obviously what Brooklyn1 was referring to when saying most
folks do it the other way -- breast up, upside down.

On 11/30/2010 8:33 AM, David Harmon wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:41:15 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
> > wrote,
>> I'm resigned to the fact that there's no way to cook a whole bird
>> without over-cooking the breast and/or under-cooking the thighs. I just
>> hack the legs and thighs off and roast them separately, works fine for
>> me.
>
> That's what Mark Bittman said to do. That's what I did.

Works great, don't it? I arrived at this idea myself but I've no doubt
that people have already known about this since they've been roasting
turkeys. The problem of course, is that for most people, cutting the
legs off a turkey before roasting is simply unacceptable.

>
> But I saw two other proposals on TV. One cook chilled the breast
> with bags of ice in a bowl before cooking. Doesn't sound practical
> to me. She said the breast should end up 20 degrees cooler than the
> rest, so she starts with it 20 degrees cooler. The problem with
> that IMO is cooking is not just passive heating.

That seems like a lot of fuss. I'd probably go the opposite route -
increasing heat transfer to the thighs by sticking a couple of metal
skewers on each side.

>
> Another gave the dark meat an early start by dangling the bird with
> the rear end in a pot of simmering broth for a while before
> roasting. That would probably work, but what a bother.

This sounds like a good idea. My guess is that the Chinese could
probably figure out how to do this but they don't seem real interested
in turkey. This brings up the age old question: If Iraq attacked Turkey
from the rear, would Greece help? :-)