"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:01:00 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> People that say you need a gas stove
>> simply haven't tried wokking with a proper electric stove or worse, have
>> no experience with cooking in this manner.
>
> I suspect that's the case. Usually, the bigger the mouth the less
> experience with the situation.

Is that why you respond at least once (usually more than once) in every
thread?

On 2010-12-18, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> You don't need the most expensive cooking
>> implements to produce tasty food.
>
><applause!>
>
> That's sig' material!!! :-)

So, why did she jest spend wads of money for pans from one of the most
expensive cookware lines on the consumer market?

nb

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article . com>,
> "Pete C." > wrote:
>
> > It's a bit like folks who get a pizza stone and then are afraid to run
> > the oven hot enough and set it at 350, yes, they'll get the pizza
> > cooked, but they will not get the correct results that they would get
> > running the oven hot enough (500-500 if your oven will do it).
>
> Can we explore this one a bit more? I've never owned a pizza stone. I
> have a perforated pizza pan that I guess is meant to crisp up the
> bottom. I've no idea where it came from (dad likely bought it maybe?)
> as I know I didn't purchase it, but may try it one of these days.
>
> My oven never would get that hot (and my current oven is just that
> Convection toaster oven for the time being), but my BBQ pit/offset
> smoker has hit 600 to 700 degrees with a mixed Oak and Mesquite fire. ;-)
>
> I'm wondering about cooking a pizza in what is essentially a wood-fired
> oven.

Grilled pizza is plenty popular. Those perforated pans do ok, or you can
use a standard pizza stone. If you use the pizza stone just give it time
to come up to temp.

I've shown quite a few people how to use a pizza stone properly at high
temp, and every one of them has continued to use them this way since it
really does work a lot better.

Normally I also do a multi-bake, where I stretch out the crust, brush
with olive oil, bake it for a few minutes, then top it with the
pre-cooked toppings and cheese and put it back in the oven to finish and
melt the cheese. The first bake with olive oil seals the crust so the
sauce doesn't penetrate and the crust stays crispy, even as leftovers.

On Dec 17, 3:31*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> "Melba's Jammin'" wrote
>
> wrote:
> >> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
> >> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
> >> for me?
> >> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
> >> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>
> > The way I cook, there is no advantage, so I don't have a wok. *I do my
> > stir fries in a skillet.
>
> Pretty much same here for all that I 'asian cook' a goodly bit. *The minimal
> value added on a wok is removed by the storage space needed in my case.

Screw a hook into the wall -- wok storage problem solved.

On Dec 17, 3:11*pm, George > wrote:
> On 12/17/2010 5:16 PM, sf wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:11:25 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
> > > *wrote:
>
> >> On Dec 17, 12:18 pm, "Pete > *wrote:
> >>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:25:55 -0600, wrote:
>
> >>>>> I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
> >>>>> like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>
> >>>>> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
> >>>>> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
> >>>>> for me?
>
> >>>>> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
> >>>>> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>
> >>>> Big skillet wins... raw spuds is not something lends itself to stir
> >>>> frying. *I see no point to a wok unless one cooks very teeny
> >>>> quantities or has a huge BTU gas burner. *The vast majority of folks
> >>>> who wok at home are just fooling themselves (ie. masturbating).
>
> >>> I agree, unless you have a high BTU burner (or cook over a wood or
> >>> charcoal fire) you don't have enough heat input for a wok to function
> >>> properly and you may as well use an ordinary large skillet.
>
> >> Hmm... should I go by this unsupported assertion, or rely on over
> >> thirty years of personal experience stir-frying on ordinary gas
> >> stoves?
>
> > They're from the "Tim, the Toolman, Taylor" school of thought.
>
> Or not, maybe do a little reading about "wok hei" (hint, it is the
> reason for that great flavor you get from a good Chinese restaurant that
> you can never duplicate without a big burner).

The only difference between my wok and a Chinese restaurant''s is that
they use lots of cheap (cottonseed) oil.

On Dec 17, 3:07*pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> sf wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:11:25 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
> > > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 17, 12:18 pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> > > > Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> > > > > On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:25:55 -0600, wrote:
>
> > > > > >I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
> > > > > >like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>
> > > > > >I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
> > > > > >but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
> > > > > >for me?
>
> > > > > >Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
> > > > > >advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>
> > > > > Big skillet wins... raw spuds is not something lends itself to stir
> > > > > frying. *I see no point to a wok unless one cooks very teeny
> > > > > quantities or has a huge BTU gas burner. *The vast majority of folks
> > > > > who wok at home are just fooling themselves (ie. masturbating).
>
> > > > I agree, unless you have a high BTU burner (or cook over a wood or
> > > > charcoal fire) you don't have enough heat input for a wok to function
> > > > properly and you may as well use an ordinary large skillet.
>
> > > Hmm... should I go by this unsupported assertion, or rely on over
> > > thirty years of personal experience stir-frying on ordinary gas
> > > stoves?
>
> > They're from the "Tim, the Toolman, Taylor" school of thought.
>
> You'll find that same "unsupported" assertion from many professional
> chefs and you'll find they all use woks on burners with much higher BTU
> output than an "ordinary" gas stove.
>

Funnily enough, most Chinese meals are not cooked by professional
chefs, but by home cooks. A typical wok burner puts out 4.5kW, or
15,350 BTU, easily achievable from any US range.

notbob wrote:

>> sf > wrote:
>>
>>> You don't need the most expensive cooking
>>> implements to produce tasty food.
>>
>><applause!>
>>
>> That's sig' material!!! :-)
>
> So, why did she jest spend wads of money for pans from one of the most
> expensive cookware lines on the consumer market?

It's HER money; she can spend it however she likes! She never claimed to
have any consistency between her words and her deeds.

Bob

Pete wrote:

> Normally I also do a multi-bake, where I stretch out the crust, brush
> with olive oil, bake it for a few minutes, then top it with the
> pre-cooked toppings and cheese and put it back in the oven to finish and
> melt the cheese. The first bake with olive oil seals the crust so the
> sauce doesn't penetrate and the crust stays crispy, even as leftovers.

I never do that with oven-baked pizza, but I do with grilled pizza.

Bob

On 18 Dec 2010 03:32:45 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2010-12-18, Omelet > wrote:
> > In article >,
> > sf > wrote:
> >
> >> You don't need the most expensive cooking
> >> implements to produce tasty food.
> >
> ><applause!>
> >
> > That's sig' material!!! :-)
>
> So, why did she jest spend wads of money for pans from one of the most
> expensive cookware lines on the consumer market?
>
They were on sale. I paid less for three items than most people here
paid for their Kitchen Aid mixer.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

> wrote in message
...
> I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
> like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>
> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
> for me?
>
> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?

I no longer have my wok. I actually had two of them over the years. I only
used them for stir fries and after trying repeatedly, I decided I just do
not like stir fries. I do love vegetables. But I mostly prefer them raw.

What I do have that I use a lot is a huge sauté pan from Circulon. It came
with a lid. I rarely use the lid. I can easily do potatoes in it. And I
have done stir fries as well. I do not think a wok would do very well for
potatoes, but then I've never tried it.

On 12/17/2010 12:26 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:01:00 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> People that say you need a gas stove
>> simply haven't tried wokking with a proper electric stove or worse, have
>> no experience with cooking in this manner.
>
> I suspect that's the case. Usually, the bigger the mouth the less
> experience with the situation.
>

You're probably right. Strange how that happens.

Some folks will say that a frying pan is better because you can't make a
grilled cheese sandwich in a wok. However, a wok worked for me because I
was willing to learn what you could do in one rather than mull over what
you can't.

The truth is that a wok is one of the most remarkable cooking vessel
ever designed but you have learn the techniques and embrace the type of
foods that work in one. You can't do fried chicken but you probably
wouldn't want to deep fry or steam or even smoke a chicken in a fry pan.
My guess is that a wok is the safest way to deep fry

The non-stick surface of the wok predates Teflon by thousands of years
and clean up only takes a few seconds. Living with a wok will mean
you'll have to learn new techniques and dishes as well making room to
accommodate it's ungainly dimensions.

Omelet > wrote:

>In article . com>,
> "Pete C." > wrote:
>
>> It's a bit like folks who get a pizza stone and then are afraid to run
>> the oven hot enough and set it at 350, yes, they'll get the pizza
>> cooked, but they will not get the correct results that they would get
>> running the oven hot enough (500-500 if your oven will do it).
>
>Can we explore this one a bit more? I've never owned a pizza stone. I
>have a perforated pizza pan that I guess is meant to crisp up the
>bottom. I've no idea where it came from (dad likely bought it maybe?)
>as I know I didn't purchase it, but may try it one of these days.

I've got one of those pans. It is better than a soggy crust- but I
keep a stone on the bottom of my oven. I never remember to take
it's temp when my oven is at 500-- but I suspect it must be 550-600.
The 'jump' in the crust, and the crispy bottom are *nearly* as good as
my favorite pizza place. I still need to work on my dough.

>
>My oven never would get that hot (and my current oven is just that
>Convection toaster oven for the time being), but my BBQ pit/offset
>smoker has hit 600 to 700 degrees with a mixed Oak and Mesquite fire. ;-)
>
>I'm wondering about cooking a pizza in what is essentially a wood-fired
>oven.

get ye to http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/

Lots of those fanatics use various grills & ovens made from grills- as
well as the ovens that the owners of the site sell. [The site owners
participate in the forums, but I've never seen them try to sell
anything in the forums.]

Lots of overlap-- but this site has a lot of pizza-making help, too-
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...board,6.0.html


Try one wood-fired pizza and you'll be hooked. I've cooked a
couple on my barrel grill/smoker, and the results were good enough to
make me gather the materials for what the guys on the fornobravo forum
call a 'Franken-Webber' - essentially a concrete shell around a weber
grill, so you can have a 700 degree stone, and radiant heat will broil
the top.

It isn't assembled yet- I've got too many irons in the fire.

Jim

In article
>,
spamtrap1888 > wrote:

> On Dec 17, 3:31*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> > "Melba's Jammin'" wrote
> > > The way I cook, there is no advantage, so I don't have a wok. *I do my
> > > stir fries in a skillet.
> >
> > Pretty much same here for all that I 'asian cook' a goodly bit. *The minimal
> > value added on a wok is removed by the storage space needed in my case.
>
> Screw a hook into the wall -- wok storage problem solved.

That assumes available wall space. :-)

--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of St. Pectina of Jella
"Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
Pepparkakor particulars posted 11-29-2010;
http://web.me.com/barbschaller

On 12/17/2010 11:50 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> On Dec 17, 3:07 pm, "Pete > wrote:
>> sf wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:11:25 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 12:18 pm, "Pete > wrote:
>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:25:55 -0600, wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
>>>>>>> like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>>
>>>>>>> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
>>>>>>> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
>>>>>>> for me?
>>
>>>>>>> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
>>>>>>> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>>
>>>>>> Big skillet wins... raw spuds is not something lends itself to stir
>>>>>> frying. I see no point to a wok unless one cooks very teeny
>>>>>> quantities or has a huge BTU gas burner. The vast majority of folks
>>>>>> who wok at home are just fooling themselves (ie. masturbating).
>>
>>>>> I agree, unless you have a high BTU burner (or cook over a wood or
>>>>> charcoal fire) you don't have enough heat input for a wok to function
>>>>> properly and you may as well use an ordinary large skillet.
>>
>>>> Hmm... should I go by this unsupported assertion, or rely on over
>>>> thirty years of personal experience stir-frying on ordinary gas
>>>> stoves?
>>
>>> They're from the "Tim, the Toolman, Taylor" school of thought.
>>
>> You'll find that same "unsupported" assertion from many professional
>> chefs and you'll find they all use woks on burners with much higher BTU
>> output than an "ordinary" gas stove.
>>
>
> Funnily enough, most Chinese meals are not cooked by professional
> chefs, but by home cooks. A typical wok burner puts out 4.5kW, or
> 15,350 BTU, easily achievable from any US range.

You seem to want to rearrange the question to fit your objection.

No one suggested that you can't use a wok to cook food on a "household"
burner. What was noted is that if want the extra flavor associated with
good restaurant wok cooking because of "wok hei" you aren't going to get
that on a household burner. If storage space/budget/whatever were
limited and if no high heat burner is available then skip the wok.

On 12/17/2010 11:08 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> On Dec 17, 3:11 pm, > wrote:
>> On 12/17/2010 5:16 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:11:25 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 12:18 pm, "Pete > wrote:
>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:25:55 -0600, wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
>>>>>>> like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>>
>>>>>>> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
>>>>>>> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
>>>>>>> for me?
>>
>>>>>>> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
>>>>>>> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>>
>>>>>> Big skillet wins... raw spuds is not something lends itself to stir
>>>>>> frying. I see no point to a wok unless one cooks very teeny
>>>>>> quantities or has a huge BTU gas burner. The vast majority of folks
>>>>>> who wok at home are just fooling themselves (ie. masturbating).
>>
>>>>> I agree, unless you have a high BTU burner (or cook over a wood or
>>>>> charcoal fire) you don't have enough heat input for a wok to function
>>>>> properly and you may as well use an ordinary large skillet.
>>
>>>> Hmm... should I go by this unsupported assertion, or rely on over
>>>> thirty years of personal experience stir-frying on ordinary gas
>>>> stoves?
>>
>>> They're from the "Tim, the Toolman, Taylor" school of thought.
>>
>> Or not, maybe do a little reading about "wok hei" (hint, it is the
>> reason for that great flavor you get from a good Chinese restaurant that
>> you can never duplicate without a big burner).
>
> The only difference between my wok and a Chinese restaurant''s is that
> they use lots of cheap (cottonseed) oil.

Actually no. There is actually chemistry involved that creates
additional flavors.

On 2010-12-18, sf > wrote:

> paid for their Kitchen Aid mixer.

.....or their car or their house. Invalid argument.

nb

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:31:52 -0500, George >
wrote:

>On 12/17/2010 11:50 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>> On Dec 17, 3:07 pm, "Pete > wrote:
>>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:11:25 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
>>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Dec 17, 12:18 pm, "Pete > wrote:
>>>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:25:55 -0600, wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
>>>>>>>> like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
>>>>>>>> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
>>>>>>>> for me?
>>>
>>>>>>>> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
>>>>>>>> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>>>
>>>>>>> Big skillet wins... raw spuds is not something lends itself to stir
>>>>>>> frying. I see no point to a wok unless one cooks very teeny
>>>>>>> quantities or has a huge BTU gas burner. The vast majority of folks
>>>>>>> who wok at home are just fooling themselves (ie. masturbating).
>>>
>>>>>> I agree, unless you have a high BTU burner (or cook over a wood or
>>>>>> charcoal fire) you don't have enough heat input for a wok to function
>>>>>> properly and you may as well use an ordinary large skillet.
>>>
>>>>> Hmm... should I go by this unsupported assertion, or rely on over
>>>>> thirty years of personal experience stir-frying on ordinary gas
>>>>> stoves?
>>>
>>>> They're from the "Tim, the Toolman, Taylor" school of thought.
>>>
>>> You'll find that same "unsupported" assertion from many professional
>>> chefs and you'll find they all use woks on burners with much higher BTU
>>> output than an "ordinary" gas stove.
>>>
>>
>> Funnily enough, most Chinese meals are not cooked by professional
>> chefs, but by home cooks. A typical wok burner puts out 4.5kW, or
>> 15,350 BTU, easily achievable from any US range.
>
>You seem to want to rearrange the question to fit your objection.
>
>No one suggested that you can't use a wok to cook food on a "household"
>burner. What was noted is that if want the extra flavor associated with
>good restaurant wok cooking because of "wok hei" you aren't going to get
>that on a household burner. If storage space/budget/whatever were
>limited and if no high heat burner is available then skip the wok.

Many years ago I owned a wok that I attempted to use on my ordinary
gas stove cooktop, even though the largest burner was rated at 12,500
BTU it was not nearly enough heat for stir frying more than a couple
three handfuls of ingredients, barely one tiny portion... and even
then as soon as the ingredients were added the wok cooled way down and
the recovery rate was much too slow for true stir frying, it was much
more stewing. I gave the wok away and for the few times I do what I
call oriental cookery I use a 14" stainless steel pan, works much
better on a standard stove top burner as it's far more stable. But I
mostly cook a version of chow mein in a 8 qt stainless steel
Farberware sauce pot, ends up filled to the top... chow mein really
doesn't need to be stir fried.... at serving just add a portion of
diced roast pork/chicken, and if ya got em add a few nuts for
garnish... served on a bed of rice and crispy noodles from a cello bag
was indistinguishable from any Chinese restaurant and was better than
most as I'm was very generous with the pricier ingredients...
certainly far better than Chun King and costs a lot less... those
canned versions are pricey for how little you get.... last I bought
Chun King has to be forty years ago... maybe it's improved
commisserate with its ridiculously steep price. <shrug> I really miss
my Brentwood Market, what a wonderful selction of oriental veggies at
low, LOW prices... five pound basket of B/Utiful 'shrooms $8. I still
have a small finger of their ginger in my freezer, always forget it's
there... it's been at least 8 years, bet it's still good.
Anyway, unless one has access to a powerfully hot heat source, eat
like a sparrow, or are into masturbatory keyboard kookery forget the
wok.

On 18 Dec 2010 14:38:43 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2010-12-18, sf > wrote:
>
> > paid for their Kitchen Aid mixer.
>
> ....or their car or their house. Invalid argument.
>
Apparently you don't know how much it costs when not on sale.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:59:12 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> You can't do fried chicken but you probably
> wouldn't want to deep fry or steam or even smoke a chicken in a fry pan.
> My guess is that a wok is the safest way to deep fry

I don't deep fry very often, but I have deep fried in a wok. <shrug>
It worked for me.


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

sf > wrote in
:

>> You can't do fried chicken but you probably
>> wouldn't want to deep fry or steam or even smoke a chicken in a fry
>> pan. My guess is that a wok is the safest way to deep fry
>
> I don't deep fry very often, but I have deep fried in a wok. <shrug>
> It worked for me.

You can even do steamed buns in a wok...you know, char siu bao, or any
other kind of bao for that matter. For that, you need one or more bamboo
steamer(s):

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Article...ls-641/bamboo-
steamer.aspx

http://tinyurl.com/38y3lhz

The advantages of bamboo steamers over electric steamer gadgets is:

a. their simplicity, and

b. that you can steam more than one steamerful by stacking them, while
keeping the foods separate.

For this, however, you might want to buy a light aluminium wok. Boiling
water in your carefully seasoned carbon steel wok will result in loss of
finish.

--

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag
and carrying a cross.

Sinclair Lewis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnrYMafCzeE

sf > writes:


> Apparently you don't know how much it costs when not on sale.

Actually, I do. Not the point. You said one doesn't need expensive
equip to cook good food. Has nothing to do with exactly how much you
paid, only that you paid a whole lot more than necessary to cook good
food, which is contrary to your assertion. So, why did you pay "a whole
lot more" for Al-Clad? Status? Bragging rights? Can't resist a deal?

C'mon, sf, we're waiting.

nb ...feeling paricularly curmudgeonly, this morning...

On 12/18/2010 5:46 AM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:59:12 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> You can't do fried chicken but you probably
>> wouldn't want to deep fry or steam or even smoke a chicken in a fry pan.
>> My guess is that a wok is the safest way to deep fry
>
> I don't deep fry very often, but I have deep fried in a wok.<shrug>
> It worked for me.
>
>

Woks don't warp either - no matter how hot you make them or if you dump
water into the pan. It's amazing that we can't seem to make non-warping
lightweight frying pans. My guess is that 200 years from now pans still
won't be able to stay flat!

On 12/18/2010 6:39 AM, Omelet wrote:
> Mom used to pop popcorn in hers. :-)

That's the craziest thing I ever heard. Hats off to you mom for that! :-)

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:46:40 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:59:12 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> You can't do fried chicken but you probably
>> wouldn't want to deep fry or steam or even smoke a chicken in a fry pan.
>> My guess is that a wok is the safest way to deep fry

On a typical stove top a wok is the least safe vessel for deep frying.

>I don't deep fry very often, but I have deep fried in a wok. <shrug>
>It worked for me.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:29:49 -0800, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 09:12:43 -0700, notbob > wrote:
>
>>sf > writes:
>
>>> Apparently you don't know how much it costs when not on sale.
>>
>>Actually, I do. Not the point. You said one doesn't need expensive
>>equip to cook good food. Has nothing to do with exactly how much you
>>paid, only that you paid a whole lot more than necessary to cook good
>>food, which is contrary to your assertion. So, why did you pay "a whole
>>lot more" for Al-Clad? Status? Bragging rights? Can't resist a deal?
>
>I will speak up here. I have had my All-Clad for many years
>now..since the late 80s. Yes, it is expensive, but I think totally
>worth the money investment. Yes, one can cook good food with lesser
>equipment, but if one can afford to pay for high quality cookware that
>does an even better job, why not? It does a better job. Even if
>cheaper cookware gets the job done, it can sometimes get the job done
>with hot spots that are not there in better cookware.
>
>Some of us like really high quality cookware, that will outlast us,
>and will not have hot spots, and will heat evenly. Even if we have
>to pay a ton more money. After all, it is our choice if we decide we
>want to put our money there....
>
>Or in my case, put my money in high quality cookware, gadgets, and
>cookbooks. LOL.

All-Crap is NOT high "quality" cookware, it's HIGH COST but
utility-wise it's near the bottom.... professional kitchens don't use
that dreck because it's all show and no go and because in commercial
use it's easily damaged. You obviously have more dollars than brain
cells.

On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:18:25 -0800 (PST), aem wrote:

> On Dec 17, 8:25 am, wrote:
>> I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
>> like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>>
>> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
>> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
>> for me?
>>
>> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
>> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>
> Buy a skillet for the potatoes, as Sheldon says. If you really want
> to do Asian-style stirfries buy a wok. I've made Chinese stirfries
> for decades and it can be done at home, no matter the naysayers.
>
> For your electric stove, buy this one:
> http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products...od-handle.html
> Buy the 12-inch size for most home cooking. It has a flat bottom so
> you can put it directly on the burner which will be stable and will
> maximize heat.

that's much like the one i have. i would rather have my old round-bottomed
and a gas stove, but *c'est la guerre*.
>
> On their website you'll find a video about how to season it.
>
> The main point to remember is not to fear high heat. Set the burner
> on high and leave it there. A little smoke is a good thing. If you
> temporarily need less heat during the cooking of a dish, move the wok
> off to the other front burner but leave the main one on, staying red
> hot. Things should sizzle loudly when you put food in the wok and
> should continue to sizzle. When you put meat in the wok, spread it
> out evenly and let it sear for a couple of minutes before you begin to
> stir it around.

i've just recently begun to do this. in many dishes, it makes a big
difference.

> Stirfrying is a big subject. Grace Young's books are quite
> useful. -aem

i think i came across the sear tip in something written by young.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 09:12:43 -0700, notbob > wrote:

> sf > writes:
>
> > Apparently you don't know how much it costs when not on sale.
>
> Actually, I do. Not the point. You said one doesn't need expensive
> equip to cook good food.

That's absolutely right and I said it because I have plenty of cooking
utensils that were NOT expensive and I bought at full price. Guess
what? I can cook tasty food with them!

> Has nothing to do with exactly how much you
> paid, only that you paid a whole lot more than necessary to cook good
> food, which is contrary to your assertion. So, why did you pay "a whole
> lot more" for Al-Clad?
>
More than what?

> Status? Bragging rights? Can't resist a deal?

If I wanted status, bragging rights AND a deal - I would have bought
this:
http://www.consumersearch.com/cookwa...nless-cookware

How you made the leap from me saying you *don't need* brand name
utensils to produce tasty food to blasting me for buying what I did is
incomprehensible. Nobody becomes a better cook just because they
store their ingredients in a Sub-Zero refrigerator and they cook in a
$300+ copper core All Clad pan on a Wolf range.

>
> C'mon, sf, we're waiting.

When I've used each piece the number of days that I paid in dollars
for the item, then I've gotten my money's worth. Every day's use
after that is free and I save money by not buying a new one.

I wasn't adding to a kitchen collection. If you'd been paying
attention when I asked for input, you'd remember that I had literally
worn out my old Calpholon saucepans and these were straight up
replacements. I retired the old pans that I use on a daily basis and
these took their place. I bought THREE items, I didn't even buy a
set. I figure the last two saucepans went for 30 years, so these
should last me until I die. The skillet will replace the nonstick
surfaced pans that we replace every 3 years or so at $20 each. I am
looking at a smaller size All Clad skillet too, because we use two
sizes of nonstick skillets, plus several sizes of NO NAME cast iron
(that will never wear out).

To reiterate - my wok, which is what started this, is a plain jane
that I bought from a hardware store in Chinatown. It's a NO NAME (who
knows if it's carbon anything) wok and "it" does a great job. The
trick to making Chinese food that tastes like it came from a
restaurant (or better than a restaurant) is to start with a great
recipe. Most people cook white man's Chinese and wonder why it
doesn't taste right. A 2,000,000 BTU flame that you can only use
outside has nothing to do with it, because I can make kick ass Chinese
on an electric burner. People blame their utensils, when in fact
*they* are at the root of the problem.

*You're* the one who brought up this subject, *I* was not name
dropping.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:49:24 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> On 12/18/2010 6:39 AM, Omelet wrote:
> > Mom used to pop popcorn in hers. :-)
>
> That's the craziest thing I ever heard. Hats off to you mom for that! :-)

I used mine for that too... but I used the Calpholon pans for popcorn
after I bought them. No jiggling necessary.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:43:19 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>On 12/18/2010 5:46 AM, sf wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:59:12 -1000, > wrote:
>>
>>> You can't do fried chicken but you probably
>>> wouldn't want to deep fry or steam or even smoke a chicken in a fry pan.
>>> My guess is that a wok is the safest way to deep fry
>>
>> I don't deep fry very often, but I have deep fried in a wok.<shrug>
>> It worked for me.
>>
>>
>
>Woks don't warp either - no matter how hot you make them or if you dump
>water into the pan. It's amazing that we can't seem to make non-warping
>lightweight frying pans. My guess is that 200 years from now pans still
>won't be able to stay flat!

Woks certainly do warp with temperature change, because of how they
are fabricated they are loaded with stress so actually woks warp a lot
more than conventional pots... only since wok geometry ain't flat to
begin with you don't notice, but their curvature changes substantially
from round to elliptical. However flat bottom woks warp very
noticeably, their bottoms 'oil can'.

"Julie Bove" > wrote:

>What I do have that I use a lot is a huge sauté pan from Circulon. It came
>with a lid. I rarely use the lid. I can easily do potatoes in it. And I
>have done stir fries as well. I do not think a wok would do very well for
>potatoes, but then I've never tried it.

Point taken on the big saute pan Julie!

Thanks!

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article . com>,
> "Pete C." > wrote:
>
> > > I'm wondering about cooking a pizza in what is essentially a wood-fired
> > > oven.
> >
> > Grilled pizza is plenty popular. Those perforated pans do ok, or you can
> > use a standard pizza stone. If you use the pizza stone just give it time
> > to come up to temp.
> >
> > I've shown quite a few people how to use a pizza stone properly at high
> > temp, and every one of them has continued to use them this way since it
> > really does work a lot better.
> >
> > Normally I also do a multi-bake, where I stretch out the crust, brush
> > with olive oil, bake it for a few minutes, then top it with the
> > pre-cooked toppings and cheese and put it back in the oven to finish and
> > melt the cheese. The first bake with olive oil seals the crust so the
> > sauce doesn't penetrate and the crust stays crispy, even as leftovers.
>
> Hm. Cool idea, thanks! The pizza would not exactly be grilled per se'.
> An offset pit has the fire box to one side so nothing is cooked directly
> over the actual fire. The fire heats the pit from one side. I have to
> occasionally clean the grease out of my pit. <g> There is a layer of
> bricks in the bottom of it to act as a heat sink, so it helps even
> things off somewhat.

Your H/O doesn't have the option of grilling in the firebox? Mine does
and I could readily put a pizza stone over charcoal there and have temps
comparable to a commercial pizza oven.

On Dec 18, 5:31*am, George > wrote:
> On 12/17/2010 11:50 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 3:07 pm, "Pete > *wrote:
> >> sf wrote:
>
> >>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:11:25 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
> >>> > *wrote:
>
> >>>> On Dec 17, 12:18 pm, "Pete > *wrote:
> >>>>> Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:25:55 -0600, wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> I'm not much of a cook at all.... but one thing I do
> >>>>>>> like is fried potatoes and stir fry type dishes
>
> >>>>>>> I have a nice skillet (probably too small) though.....
> >>>>>>> but have wondered if maybe a wok is the better "tool"
> >>>>>>> for me?
>
> >>>>>>> Can someone give this neophyte cook some advice on the
> >>>>>>> advantages of wok vs BIG skillet?
>
> >>>>>> Big skillet wins... raw spuds is not something lends itself to stir
> >>>>>> frying. *I see no point to a wok unless one cooks very teeny
> >>>>>> quantities or has a huge BTU gas burner. *The vast majority of folks
> >>>>>> who wok at home are just fooling themselves (ie. masturbating).
>
> >>>>> I agree, unless you have a high BTU burner (or cook over a wood or
> >>>>> charcoal fire) you don't have enough heat input for a wok to function
> >>>>> properly and you may as well use an ordinary large skillet.
>
> >>>> Hmm... should I go by this unsupported assertion, or rely on over
> >>>> thirty years of personal experience stir-frying on ordinary gas
> >>>> stoves?
>
> >>> They're from the "Tim, the Toolman, Taylor" school of thought.
>
> >> You'll find that same "unsupported" assertion from many professional
> >> chefs and you'll find they all use woks on burners with much higher BTU
> >> output than an "ordinary" gas stove.
>
> > Funnily enough, most Chinese meals are not cooked by professional
> > chefs, but by home cooks. A typical wok burner puts out 4.5kW, or
> > 15,350 BTU, easily achievable from any US range.
>
> You seem to want to rearrange the question to fit your objection.
>
> No one suggested that you can't use a wok to cook food on a "household"
> burner. What was noted is that if want the extra flavor associated with
> good restaurant wok cooking because of "wok hei" you aren't going to get
> that on a household burner. If storage space/budget/whatever were
> limited and if no high heat burner is available then skip the wok.

Please tell me a restaurant and a dish that provides this extra flavor
obtainable only by high heat cookery, without which spending $20 on a
wok is a waste.

I also use my wok to make straccetti with arugula.

On 12/18/2010 8:51 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> Woks certainly do warp with temperature change, because of how they
> are fabricated they are loaded with stress so actually woks warp a lot
> more than conventional pots... only since wok geometry ain't flat to
> begin with you don't notice, but their curvature changes substantially
> from round to elliptical. However flat bottom woks warp very
> noticeably, their bottoms 'oil can'.

My guess is that you're just guessing about a wok being loaded with
stress and that the curvature changes substantially. Do you have any
data on all this or is this a case of you just knowing it truly with all
your heart? OTOH, I can use a wok in high temperature cooking and not
have to worry about dumping water in a hot pan so from a practical
standpoint whether or not the pan is loaded with stress or that the pan
changes shape in some way doesn't really matter making your post either
false or irrelevant.

I wouldn't touch a flat bottom "wok" - those things would warp! I'd stay
away from teflon, cast iron, and electric woks too. Sheesh, some people
just can't leave well enough alone!

On 12/18/2010 9:48 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> Brooklyn1<Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:46:40 -0800, > wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:59:12 -1000, > wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can't do fried chicken but you probably
>>>> wouldn't want to deep fry or steam or even smoke a chicken in a fry pan.
>>>> My guess is that a wok is the safest way to deep fry
>>
>> On a typical stove top a wok is the least safe vessel for deep frying.
>>
>>> I don't deep fry very often, but I have deep fried in a wok.<shrug>
>>> It worked for me.
>
> Sis' does Tempura in hers. Takes for freakin' EVer! Last time she
> wanted to make it, I asked if she wanted to borrow my fry daddy. It
> would have been a LOT less work!

You're correct about this. A Fry Daddy would be a dream deep fryer for
me however I only deep fry a couple of times a year. A Fry Daddy would
probably increase that to a couple of times a month - I'm not so sure
that would be such a good thing. I used to make chicken Kiev years ago -
that was sure tasty but I can't eat that now! OTOH, this is true with
most things that I used to make.

OTOH, I could start wokking and it would be a good thing. OTOH, I can't
because I have a flat cooktop with halogen elements nor do I have the
space. OTOH, when we move back into our condo with the new kitchen,
there will be plenty of space for a wok. OTHO it has an induction stove
- that's gonna be a problem.

I recently saw a kitchen with a deep fryer build into the countertop
next to the stove. That would be even better than a Fry Daddy but
perhaps that may be going a bit too far. The kitchen was in a house done
in a Chinese style. Like a wok, you really have to change your ways to
really groove in an environment designed for a well off Chinese family.

sf > writes:


> That's absolutely right and I said it because I have plenty of cooking
> utensils that were NOT expensive and I bought at full price. Guess
> what? I can cook tasty food with them!

> If I wanted status, bragging rights AND a deal - I would have bought
> this:
> http://www.consumersearch.com/cookwa...nless-cookware
>
> How you made the leap from me saying you *don't need* brand name
> utensils to produce tasty food to blasting me for buying what I did is
> incomprehensible. Nobody becomes a better cook just because they
> store their ingredients in a Sub-Zero refrigerator and they cook in a
> $300+ copper core All Clad pan on a Wolf range.
>
> When I've used each piece the number of days that I paid in dollars
> for the item, then I've gotten my money's worth. Every day's use
> after that is free and I save money by not buying a new one.
>
> I wasn't adding to a kitchen collection. If you'd been paying
> attention when I asked for input, you'd remember that I had literally
> worn out my old Calpholon saucepans and these were straight up
> replacements. I retired the old pans that I use on a daily basis and
> these took their place. I bought THREE items, I didn't even buy a
> set. I figure the last two saucepans went for 30 years, so these
> should last me until I die. The skillet will replace the nonstick
> surfaced pans that we replace every 3 years or so at $20 each. I am
> looking at a smaller size All Clad skillet too, because we use two
> sizes of nonstick skillets, plus several sizes of NO NAME cast iron
> (that will never wear out).
>
> To reiterate - my wok, which is what started this, is a plain jane
> that I bought from a hardware store in Chinatown. It's a NO NAME (who
> knows if it's carbon anything) wok and "it" does a great job. The
> trick to making Chinese food that tastes like it came from a
> restaurant (or better than a restaurant) is to start with a great
> recipe. Most people cook white man's Chinese and wonder why it
> doesn't taste right. A 2,000,000 BTU flame that you can only use
> outside has nothing to do with it, because I can make kick ass Chinese
> on an electric burner. People blame their utensils, when in fact
> *they* are at the root of the problem.

Yikes. Did I touch a nerve?

nb

In article >,
dsi1 > wrote:


> Woks don't warp either - no matter how hot you make them or if you dump
> water into the pan. It's amazing that we can't seem to make non-warping
> lightweight frying pans. My guess is that 200 years from now pans still
> won't be able to stay flat!

It's just natural. Look how Mother Nature does it. The only flat
things in nature are liquids under the effect of gravity, and just how
strong is that? :-) If you want to make something strong, put a curve
in it.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article .com>,
> "Pete C." > wrote:
>
> > Omelet wrote:
> > >
> > > In article . com>,
> > > "Pete C." > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I'm wondering about cooking a pizza in what is essentially a wood-fired
> > > > > oven.
> > > >
> > > > Grilled pizza is plenty popular. Those perforated pans do ok, or you can
> > > > use a standard pizza stone. If you use the pizza stone just give it time
> > > > to come up to temp.
> > > >
> > > > I've shown quite a few people how to use a pizza stone properly at high
> > > > temp, and every one of them has continued to use them this way since it
> > > > really does work a lot better.
> > > >
> > > > Normally I also do a multi-bake, where I stretch out the crust, brush
> > > > with olive oil, bake it for a few minutes, then top it with the
> > > > pre-cooked toppings and cheese and put it back in the oven to finish and
> > > > melt the cheese. The first bake with olive oil seals the crust so the
> > > > sauce doesn't penetrate and the crust stays crispy, even as leftovers.
> > >
> > > Hm. Cool idea, thanks! The pizza would not exactly be grilled per se'.
> > > An offset pit has the fire box to one side so nothing is cooked directly
> > > over the actual fire. The fire heats the pit from one side. I have to
> > > occasionally clean the grease out of my pit. <g> There is a layer of
> > > bricks in the bottom of it to act as a heat sink, so it helps even
> > > things off somewhat.
> >
> > Your H/O doesn't have the option of grilling in the firebox? Mine does
> > and I could readily put a pizza stone over charcoal there and have temps
> > comparable to a commercial pizza oven.
>
> I could, but it's a PITA to try it. And that fire box is not very
> large. I could not put a large pizza in it.
>
> Since the pit gets to over 600 degrees for a reasonable period of time,
> I see no reason not to use that?

As long as the stone has adequate time to reach that 600 degree temp it
should work.

One thing my friends found after I showed them how to use a pizza stone
at decent temps is they don't do large pizzas anymore, they do
individual personal pizzas since they cook so fast at 500+. Everyone
gets to top their own individual pizza as they want, OO brush and
pre-bake if they want, etc.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:59:34 -0700, notbob > wrote:

> sf > writes:
>
>
> Yikes. Did I touch a nerve?
>
As I was pressing send, I was thinking that you know how to get me all
wound up. One more "Lodge" name drop and I will walk over and
personally klonk that poster on the head with my no name cast iron
pan. I think it will raise just as big a lump as if I used a name
brand, but I can test the theory and klonk them again with their
Lodge.


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:09:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

> If you want to make something strong, put a curve in it.

All you need to do is look at an egg.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On 12/18/2010 11:09 AM, Dan Abel wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Woks don't warp either - no matter how hot you make them or if you dump
>> water into the pan. It's amazing that we can't seem to make non-warping
>> lightweight frying pans. My guess is that 200 years from now pans still
>> won't be able to stay flat!
>
> It's just natural. Look how Mother Nature does it. The only flat
> things in nature are liquids under the effect of gravity, and just how
> strong is that? :-) If you want to make something strong, put a curve
> in it.
>

When I think about it, the wok is probably the most perfectly conceived
cooking vessel on this planet. OTOH, we really need to be able to make
our pancakes, french toast, fried chicken, and grilled cheese sandwiches
so it looks like we're stuck with flat frypans for now. :-)