On 2011-02-21, sf > wrote:

> Yes, they were things I wanted to learn and would have enjoyed the
> process is the classes weren't in an Mac lab.

Similar to my two run-ins with Apple, the first being with an Apple
IIe. I probably would have enjoyed it if I hadn't just come from
using a full fledged Unix mainframe. The experience was much like
being told I hadda ride a Big Wheels while my adult Schwinn bicycle
was in the shop. The 2nd time wasn't much better. Fortunately, both
times were painful for less than 24 hrs. <shudder>

nb

In article >,
Jim Elbrecht > wrote:

> "Nancy Young" > wrote:

> >(laugh) I hit the wrong button one day and a voice asked me about
> >making a call, I had a heart attack. That's my experience with
> >bluetooth, my car has that. And I'm not hitting that button again.
> >Manual or no.
>
> Isn't it funny what things make great sales pitches-- but when it
> comes down to it, aren't worth the effort [to most of us] to study a
> manual?

Ain't that the truth? I bought a new car a year ago. I don't know how
to work the sound system, which is OK since I don't want to use it for
much. There must be three inches worth of manuals that came with the
car, of which about a half inch is for the sound system. There's no
room in the glove compartment for gloves! I got the standard sound
system, it didn't cost anything extra. It does AM/FM, CDs (including
MP3), satellite radio and you can hook in your MP3 player through the
center console, but control it from the dashboard. The satellite radio
came with a 90 day free subscription. We opted not to continue it. I
burned a couple of CDs from my computer. I planned to burn MP3s, but
didn't have enough music, so they are regular sound CDs. I checked to
see that they worked, but have never listened to them other than that.
Neither my wife nor I have MP3 players. The kids do, but they seldom
use the car.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
>> Jim Elbrecht wrote:

>>> She has a bluetooth adapter that would also work in the car if she
>>> cared to read that much of the manual.<g>
>>
>> (laugh) I hit the wrong button one day and a voice asked me about
>> making a call, I had a heart attack. That's my experience with
>> bluetooth, my car has that. And I'm not hitting that button again.
>> Manual or no.
>
> Isn't it funny what things make great sales pitches-- but when it
> comes down to it, aren't worth the effort [to most of us] to study a
> manual?

Yeah, maybe then I would have known about the bluetooth at
least. The thing about manuals, in general when I have a question
to look up, they never seem to cover it.

>> You certainly know a lot about this stuff, and I bet sf can play her
>> Sansa/whatever in her car.
>
> It helps to have a 23 yr old audiophile in the house--

I was just saying the other day, I need a teenager!

> but just in
> case you haven't seen it yet- Sansa has an excellent bunch of forums
> on their site-
> http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Sansa-MP3-players/ct-p/mp3

Thanks, I'm going to check it out.

nancy

On 2011-02-20, BigBadBubbas <default@user> wrote:

> http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/1241/pcvsmac1qv9.jpg

LOL!....

nb

On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:33:57 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>Ha ha, forget about that liquid cooling system in the new frontier. I
>put together a computer with a Intel Atom processor which has a small
>fan that looks like a toy - that computer is kind of slow and it has a
>Linux OS, which I thought would work well with the Atom. It's sitting
>under my desk unused. Hopefully, I'll be able to load in an Android OS
>soon. OTOH, the iPad with a super low wattage processor and a OS that is
>well suited for the A4 processor and environment works like a dream.

Well, my liquid cooled system is a Core i7-960 3.2GHz and I plan
(someday) to work the overclocking on it. Air cooled, 4Ghz is easily
met, I'm thinking maybe i can get to 4.2 - 4.4GHz.

With 256GB SSD, 12 GB 1.6GHz DDR3 RAM, it's a pretty stout box and it
still takes 1hr + to transcode Blurays!

>My newest computer has a low-end AMD Quad processor of 120 W or so. I
>bought the biggest, lowest priced cooler for that and it's a monster.
>I'm guessing the noise from that thing is gonna be "a little loud." All
>the mounting pins for the front panel snapped off in shipping so I'm
>trying to figure out how to install it. If I can't think of anything,
>I'm just going to duct tape it. :-)
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very quickly.
>>>
>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>
>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>> technology so quickly?
>
>I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>are getting too cheap. :-)

Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
really cheap.

>I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh well.

Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
when it first dropped about 2 years ago.

Still, despite alot of terrible things about Microsoft, the future is
best when there are multiple competitors out there, but Microsoft is
so slow and really so UN-visionary that it's working its way out of
the limelight. It will take a while b/c of all the momentum it
has(had), but eventually they will lose out.

Curiously, among the terrible ideas it had was to couple their OS so
much with IE.

-goro-

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:27:07 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> > "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >
> >> Jim Elbrecht wrote:
>
> >>> She has a bluetooth adapter that would also work in the car if she
> >>> cared to read that much of the manual.<g>
> >>
> >> (laugh) I hit the wrong button one day and a voice asked me about
> >> making a call, I had a heart attack. That's my experience with
> >> bluetooth, my car has that. And I'm not hitting that button again.
> >> Manual or no.
> >
> > Isn't it funny what things make great sales pitches-- but when it
> > comes down to it, aren't worth the effort [to most of us] to study a
> > manual?
>
> Yeah, maybe then I would have known about the bluetooth at
> least. The thing about manuals, in general when I have a question
> to look up, they never seem to cover it.

I know how you feel, Nancy!
>
> >> You certainly know a lot about this stuff, and I bet sf can play her
> >> Sansa/whatever in her car.

You're very flattering, Jim - but to be honest, I don't know. I'm in
the "Nancy" group. I have lots of places I can plug something into,
but I've only used them for re-chargers.
> >
> > It helps to have a 23 yr old audiophile in the house--
>
> I was just saying the other day, I need a teenager!
>
> > but just in
> > case you haven't seen it yet- Sansa has an excellent bunch of forums
> > on their site-
> > http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Sansa-MP3-players/ct-p/mp3
>
> Thanks, I'm going to check it out.
>
> nancy

Don't feel bad. Color me ignorant too. I babysit 3 days a week
(she's 3 months old now) and got a "base" for their carseat just a
couple of days ago. Son had to install it in my car today because I
didn't have the heart to fiddle around with it.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 2/21/2011 5:42 PM, Goro wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:33:57 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> Ha ha, forget about that liquid cooling system in the new frontier. I
>> put together a computer with a Intel Atom processor which has a small
>> fan that looks like a toy - that computer is kind of slow and it has a
>> Linux OS, which I thought would work well with the Atom. It's sitting
>> under my desk unused. Hopefully, I'll be able to load in an Android OS
>> soon. OTOH, the iPad with a super low wattage processor and a OS that is
>> well suited for the A4 processor and environment works like a dream.
>
> Well, my liquid cooled system is a Core i7-960 3.2GHz and I plan
> (someday) to work the overclocking on it. Air cooled, 4Ghz is easily
> met, I'm thinking maybe i can get to 4.2 - 4.4GHz.
>
> With 256GB SSD, 12 GB 1.6GHz DDR3 RAM, it's a pretty stout box and it
> still takes 1hr + to transcode Blurays!

Stout box indeed. The Gods of gaming are demanding. I'm guessing you're
using linked dual video cards too. Big power hungry ones. Anyway you
guys pretty much drive the processor industry so thanks for keeping the
race for speed up so that I can get cheap multi-core 2.4 GHz processors. :-)

>
>> My newest computer has a low-end AMD Quad processor of 120 W or so. I
>> bought the biggest, lowest priced cooler for that and it's a monster.
>> I'm guessing the noise from that thing is gonna be "a little loud." All
>> the mounting pins for the front panel snapped off in shipping so I'm
>> trying to figure out how to install it. If I can't think of anything,
>> I'm just going to duct tape it. :-)
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very quickly.
>>>>
>>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>>
>>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>>> technology so quickly?
>>
>> I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>> I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>> are getting too cheap. :-)
>
> Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
> a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
> main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
> enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
> really cheap.
>
>> I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh well.
>
> Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
> time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
> was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
> It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
> when it first dropped about 2 years ago.

Hard to believe that was so long ago.

>
> Still, despite alot of terrible things about Microsoft, the future is
> best when there are multiple competitors out there, but Microsoft is
> so slow and really so UN-visionary that it's working its way out of
> the limelight. It will take a while b/c of all the momentum it
> has(had), but eventually they will lose out.

It seems that MS has blown it yet again. The battle for the hand-held OS
is slipping through their fingers. Personally I think that Vista got a
bad rap but the Windows Mobile 6.5 is just a confusing experience on an
HTC HD2. I'll take the an Apple or Android OS anyday instead. My guess
is that the open OS of the future is Android, not Linux. The Linux geeks
blew it too.

>
> Curiously, among the terrible ideas it had was to couple their OS so
> much with IE.

I'm not sure that they handled it wrong. They did get rid of Netscape's
Navigator. I won't use IE 8 or whatever version is out now but my guess
is that it's still the most widely used browser.

>
> -goro-

On 22/02/2011 5:29 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 2/21/2011 5:42 PM, Goro wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:33:57 -1000, > wrote:
>>
>>> Ha ha, forget about that liquid cooling system in the new frontier. I
>>> put together a computer with a Intel Atom processor which has a small
>>> fan that looks like a toy - that computer is kind of slow and it has a
>>> Linux OS, which I thought would work well with the Atom. It's sitting
>>> under my desk unused. Hopefully, I'll be able to load in an Android OS
>>> soon. OTOH, the iPad with a super low wattage processor and a OS that is
>>> well suited for the A4 processor and environment works like a dream.
>>
>> Well, my liquid cooled system is a Core i7-960 3.2GHz and I plan
>> (someday) to work the overclocking on it. Air cooled, 4Ghz is easily
>> met, I'm thinking maybe i can get to 4.2 - 4.4GHz.
>>
>> With 256GB SSD, 12 GB 1.6GHz DDR3 RAM, it's a pretty stout box and it
>> still takes 1hr + to transcode Blurays!
>
> Stout box indeed. The Gods of gaming are demanding. I'm guessing you're
> using linked dual video cards too. Big power hungry ones. Anyway you
> guys pretty much drive the processor industry so thanks for keeping the
> race for speed up so that I can get cheap multi-core 2.4 GHz processors.
> :-)
>
>>
>>> My newest computer has a low-end AMD Quad processor of 120 W or so. I
>>> bought the biggest, lowest priced cooler for that and it's a monster.
>>> I'm guessing the noise from that thing is gonna be "a little loud." All
>>> the mounting pins for the front panel snapped off in shipping so I'm
>>> trying to figure out how to install it. If I can't think of anything,
>>> I'm just going to duct tape it. :-)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very
>>>>>> quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>>>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>>>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>>>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>>>> technology so quickly?
>>>
>>> I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>>> I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>>> are getting too cheap. :-)
>>
>> Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
>> a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
>> main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
>> enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
>> really cheap.
>>
>>> I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh well.
>>
>> Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
>> time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
>> was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
>> It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
>> when it first dropped about 2 years ago.
>
> Hard to believe that was so long ago.
>
>>
>> Still, despite alot of terrible things about Microsoft, the future is
>> best when there are multiple competitors out there, but Microsoft is
>> so slow and really so UN-visionary that it's working its way out of
>> the limelight. It will take a while b/c of all the momentum it
>> has(had), but eventually they will lose out.
>
> It seems that MS has blown it yet again. The battle for the hand-held OS
> is slipping through their fingers. Personally I think that Vista got a
> bad rap but the Windows Mobile 6.5 is just a confusing experience on an
> HTC HD2. I'll take the an Apple or Android OS anyday instead. My guess
> is that the open OS of the future is Android, not Linux. The Linux geeks
> blew it too.
>
The ones who "blew it" were the hardware vendors who kept their drivers
proprietry and "paid" Microsoft to accredit them with Windows
compliance. You might find Linux on HTC phones soon too.
>>
>> Curiously, among the terrible ideas it had was to couple their OS so
>> much with IE.
>
> I'm not sure that they handled it wrong. They did get rid of Netscape's

Of course they handled it wrong. They let it vegetate when they thought
they had destroyed the competition. They got left behind.

> Navigator. I won't use IE 8 or whatever version is out now but my guess
> is that it's still the most widely used browser.
>
Netscape Navigator morphed into Firefox and leapt ahead of the scant
opposition that was IE.

Krypsis

On 2/22/2011 12:46 AM, Krypsis wrote:
> On 22/02/2011 5:29 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On 2/21/2011 5:42 PM, Goro wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:33:57 -1000, > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ha ha, forget about that liquid cooling system in the new frontier. I
>>>> put together a computer with a Intel Atom processor which has a small
>>>> fan that looks like a toy - that computer is kind of slow and it has a
>>>> Linux OS, which I thought would work well with the Atom. It's sitting
>>>> under my desk unused. Hopefully, I'll be able to load in an Android OS
>>>> soon. OTOH, the iPad with a super low wattage processor and a OS
>>>> that is
>>>> well suited for the A4 processor and environment works like a dream.
>>>
>>> Well, my liquid cooled system is a Core i7-960 3.2GHz and I plan
>>> (someday) to work the overclocking on it. Air cooled, 4Ghz is easily
>>> met, I'm thinking maybe i can get to 4.2 - 4.4GHz.
>>>
>>> With 256GB SSD, 12 GB 1.6GHz DDR3 RAM, it's a pretty stout box and it
>>> still takes 1hr + to transcode Blurays!
>>
>> Stout box indeed. The Gods of gaming are demanding. I'm guessing you're
>> using linked dual video cards too. Big power hungry ones. Anyway you
>> guys pretty much drive the processor industry so thanks for keeping the
>> race for speed up so that I can get cheap multi-core 2.4 GHz processors.
>> :-)
>>
>>>
>>>> My newest computer has a low-end AMD Quad processor of 120 W or so. I
>>>> bought the biggest, lowest priced cooler for that and it's a monster.
>>>> I'm guessing the noise from that thing is gonna be "a little loud." All
>>>> the mounting pins for the front panel snapped off in shipping so I'm
>>>> trying to figure out how to install it. If I can't think of anything,
>>>> I'm just going to duct tape it. :-)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very
>>>>>>> quickly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>>>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>>>>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>>>>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>>>>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>>>>> technology so quickly?
>>>>
>>>> I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>>>> I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>>>> are getting too cheap. :-)
>>>
>>> Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
>>> a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
>>> main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
>>> enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
>>> really cheap.
>>>
>>>> I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh
>>>> well.
>>>
>>> Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
>>> time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
>>> was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
>>> It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
>>> when it first dropped about 2 years ago.
>>
>> Hard to believe that was so long ago.
>>
>>>
>>> Still, despite alot of terrible things about Microsoft, the future is
>>> best when there are multiple competitors out there, but Microsoft is
>>> so slow and really so UN-visionary that it's working its way out of
>>> the limelight. It will take a while b/c of all the momentum it
>>> has(had), but eventually they will lose out.
>>
>> It seems that MS has blown it yet again. The battle for the hand-held OS
>> is slipping through their fingers. Personally I think that Vista got a
>> bad rap but the Windows Mobile 6.5 is just a confusing experience on an
>> HTC HD2. I'll take the an Apple or Android OS anyday instead. My guess
>> is that the open OS of the future is Android, not Linux. The Linux geeks
>> blew it too.
>>
> The ones who "blew it" were the hardware vendors who kept their drivers
> proprietry and "paid" Microsoft to accredit them with Windows
> compliance. You might find Linux on HTC phones soon too.

I can get my hardware to run with Linux just fine. Usability is another
issue. The geeks had over a decade to get the OS ready for regular folks
but they just weren't interested in that. That's the breaks.

OTOH, Android is based on the Linux kernal so in a way, Linux is running
on HTC phones as well as the majority of the smart phones on the market,
just not on a HTC HD2. Thanks Google!

>>>
>>> Curiously, among the terrible ideas it had was to couple their OS so
>>> much with IE.
>>
>> I'm not sure that they handled it wrong. They did get rid of Netscape's
>
> Of course they handled it wrong. They let it vegetate when they thought
> they had destroyed the competition. They got left behind.
>
>> Navigator. I won't use IE 8 or whatever version is out now but my guess
>> is that it's still the most widely used browser.
>>
> Netscape Navigator morphed into Firefox and leapt ahead of the scant
> opposition that was IE.

I never said that IE was a great or even a good browser - just that it
was the most widely used browser. Thinking that Firefox is really great
won't change that fact. I don't use Firefox much these days - its
software bloat and seemingly endless updates has made it unappealing.
Chrome is my browser of choice although few people use it. It's based on
Apple's Webkit rendering engine and is super fast. Thanks Apple and
Google! Oh, I forgot, they're the enemy. Ah crap! :-)

>
> Krypsis
>

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> I'll take the an Apple or Android OS anyday instead.

Not me. DD tried to call me with her iPhone the other day and it
locked up on her, she couldn't complete the call. It rang on my end,
her's was dead. I have no idea what she did to fix it, but it took a
lot longer than a moment or two.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 03:35:01 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

> I don't use Firefox much these days - its
> software bloat and seemingly endless updates has made it unappealing.

My problem is I usually have too many tabs open at one time, so that
part slows me down.

> Chrome is my browser of choice although few people use it. It's based on
> Apple's Webkit rendering engine and is super fast. Thanks Apple and
> Google! Oh, I forgot, they're the enemy. Ah crap! :-)

My kids were surprised to see I wasn't using Chrome yet, I have to
check it out one of these days.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:27:07 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> Yeah, maybe then I would have known about the bluetooth at
> least. The thing about manuals, in general when I have a question
> to look up, they never seem to cover it.

When I have a question, I ask a sales person or repairman. Manuals
are so poorly written, they might as well be in Greek.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 2/22/2011 7:50 AM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> I'll take the an Apple or Android OS anyday instead.
>
> Not me. DD tried to call me with her iPhone the other day and it
> locked up on her, she couldn't complete the call. It rang on my end,
> her's was dead. I have no idea what she did to fix it, but it took a
> lot longer than a moment or two.
>

My guess it's a network problem. OTOH, I've never used an iPhone - just
the OS as implemented on the iPad.

On 2011-02-22, sf > wrote:


> are so poorly written, they might as well be in Greek.

Operator error.

I read the manual for everything I buy, if one is provided. They
all make perfect sense to me.

The days of poorly translated Asian manuals is long gone.

nb

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>
>I'm not sure that they handled it wrong. They did get rid of Netscape's
>Navigator. I won't use IE 8 or whatever version is out now but my guess
>is that it's still the most widely used browser.

Netscape was bought by AOL.

IE was based on NCSA Mosaic.

IE's market share has been dropping terribly over the past 2-3 years.
It's now well under 50% of the market share.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...f_web_browsers

Momentum is now on the side of alternate browsers and it's now more
and more commonplace for users to get Firefox or Chrome or Opera than
it was before.

Microsoft's paradigm of EEE (Embrace, Enhance, Extinguish) has led
them down a pretty bad path w/IE. Since its inception, it has been
non-standards compliant and so web developers have had to build around
the quirks of IE (often building dual branches, 1 for standards
compliant browsers like Firefox and one for IE). And now that IE 8 is
MORE standards compliant, old IE websites are breaking.

And with AJax being more prevalent online, things like Chrome's huge
performance increase in javascript engine are very notable. Especially
when you compare it against the slow and problematic IE javascript
engine.

-goro-

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>On 2/21/2011 5:42 PM, Goro wrote:

>>>>>>
>>>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>>>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>>>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>>>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>>>> technology so quickly?
>>>
>>> I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>>> I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>>> are getting too cheap. :-)
>>
>> Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
>> a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
>> main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
>> enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
>> really cheap.
>>
>>> I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh well.
>>
>> Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
>> time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
>> was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
>> It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
>> when it first dropped about 2 years ago.
>
>Hard to believe that was so long ago.

So apparently, Apple is once again taking a leap forward: The new
announcement is that Macbook Pro is going to have 16GB SSD bootdrive
in addition to a traditional harddrive and they will also get
Lightpeak.

-goro-

Goro > wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> On 2/21/2011 5:42 PM, Goro wrote:
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very quickly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>>>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>>>>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>>>>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>>>>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>>>>> technology so quickly?
>>>>
>>>> I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>>>> I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>>>> are getting too cheap. :-)
>>>
>>> Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
>>> a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
>>> main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
>>> enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
>>> really cheap.
>>>
>>>> I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh well.
>>>
>>> Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
>>> time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
>>> was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
>>> It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
>>> when it first dropped about 2 years ago.
>>
>> Hard to believe that was so long ago.
>
> So apparently, Apple is once again taking a leap forward: The new
> announcement is that Macbook Pro is going to have 16GB SSD bootdrive
> in addition to a traditional harddrive and they will also get
> Lightpeak.
>
> -goro-

It is not the hardware that holds back the PC, it is the operating system.
I will take a slower and more stable operating system of the Mac over the
bug and virus ridden problems of the PC. No need for a yearly subscription
fee or a ton of maintenance software to semantic to keep viruses and
problems off my Mac.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On 2011-02-23, Nad R > wrote:

> I will take a slower and more stable operating system of the Mac over the
> bug and virus ridden problems of the PC. No need for a yearly subscription
> fee or a ton of maintenance software to semantic to keep viruses and
> problems off my Mac.

So, get the best of both worlds and run Linux or BSD unix on a PC.

While current desktop macs are not exactly PC clones, they run intel
cpu's and run an OS based on unix and are so similar they can actually
run windows xp. Apple brings nothing to the desktop except abusrdly
high prices. OTOH, you wanna spend all the extra money to be able to
claim membership in the Apple cult, who am I to object.

Most ppl are quite happy being told what they can and connot do. Fine
by me. I prefer making my own choices, decisions, AND mistakes. It's
called freedom of choice, a concept diametrically opposed to the
business philosophies of both microsoft and apple.

nb

On 2011-02-20, dsi1 > wrote:

> put together a computer with a Intel Atom processor.....

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2011/02/...-slowly-intel/

nb

On 2011-02-22, dsi1 > wrote:


> It seems that MS has blown it yet again. The battle for the hand-held OS
> is slipping through their fingers.

"--essentially phasing out Symbian and making WP7 the world's
second-most popular mobile OS in its place --"

http://tinyurl.com/63gkudx


> is that the open OS of the future is Android, not Linux.

"Android is based upon a modified version of the Linux kernel."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)


Let's try and keep up, guys.

nb

notbob > wrote:
> On 2011-02-23, Nad R > wrote:
>
>> I will take a slower and more stable operating system of the Mac over the
>> bug and virus ridden problems of the PC. No need for a yearly subscription
>> fee or a ton of maintenance software to semantic to keep viruses and
>> problems off my Mac.
>
> So, get the best of both worlds and run Linux or BSD unix on a PC.
>
> While current desktop macs are not exactly PC clones, they run intel
> cpu's and run an OS based on unix and are so similar they can actually
> run windows xp. Apple brings nothing to the desktop except abusrdly
> high prices. OTOH, you wanna spend all the extra money to be able to
> claim membership in the Apple cult, who am I to object.
>
> Most ppl are quite happy being told what they can and connot do. Fine
> by me. I prefer making my own choices, decisions, AND mistakes. It's
> called freedom of choice, a concept diametrically opposed to the
> business philosophies of both microsoft and apple.
>
> nb

I will gladly pay extra for the Mac over the headaches and lower cost of
the PC. All Macs comes with BSD unix and X11. My Mac can also run Windoze,
but I see no reason to do so. In ten years my Mac has never crashed, never
got a virus, never needed to run any hard drive maintenance software to
keep it running smoothly. My Mac, iPhone and iPad are easily kept in sync
automatically. More time to spend on cooking.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On 2011-02-22, dsi1 > wrote:

> I can get my hardware to run with Linux just fine. Usability is another
> issue. The geeks had over a decade to get the OS ready for regular folks
> but they just weren't interested in that. That's the breaks.

Is it that the "geeks" are not interested or the users are not
interested?

I've been using linux for 10 yrs and have had few problems. It does
what I want it for and does it better than the others. Otherwise, why
would I choose it. I couldn't care less if the majority of computer
sheep don't find linux ready for prime time. Besides, seems damn
silly to make one OS behave just like another. Pretty much defeats
the whole point of providing a choice.

You seem to throw around that geek term like it's a bad thing or only
applies to linux users. Sorry, but geeks are the ones who cobbled up
your precious windows and osx and even your hardware. Linux is merely
another choice.

BTW, most geeks know how to use a text editor to trim absurdly long
articles.

nb

On 2011-02-23, Goro > wrote: > > Netscape was bought by
AOL.

Netscape Navigator lovers can still find a Netscape clone, namely
Seamonkey.

http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

.....which is based on the old Netscape source code. I prefer it for
several reasons, but must admit I have found it to be an occasional
impediment to a couple websites I use, so have to fire up Firefox to
get that particular website to render properly. OTOH, this is very
rare, only two websites, out of the hundreds I visit daily, requiring
me to abandon Seamonkey. I'm sure that these particular configuration
aberrations could be overcome if put my mind to it, but too easy to
jes fire up FF for a few mins (yes, I'm incredibly lazy!).

Seamonkey eschews most of the bloat and updates one of you was
mentioning and also provides more granular user control. FF seems to
be adopting your favorite anthem, ease of use, over user control, so
default settings are assumed rather than made a conscious user choice.


nb

On 2011-02-23, Nad R > wrote:
> notbob > wrote:
>> On 2011-02-23, Nad R > wrote:

> I will gladly pay extra for the Mac over the headaches and lower cost of
> the PC. All Macs comes with BSD unix and X11.

So, any PC can run the same thing and has been able to for almost 10
yrs. I do it on an 8 yr old PC that cost me $40.

> My Mac can also run Windoze, but I see no reason to do so.

Amen.

> In ten years my Mac has never crashed, never got a virus, never
> needed to run any hard drive maintenance software to keep it running
> smoothly.

Likewise, my linux.

> My Mac, iPhone and iPad are easily kept in sync automatically. More
> time to spend on cooking.

Not having either, I have even more time.

nb

On 2/23/2011 1:11 AM, Goro wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, > wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm not sure that they handled it wrong. They did get rid of Netscape's
>> Navigator. I won't use IE 8 or whatever version is out now but my guess
>> is that it's still the most widely used browser.
>
> Netscape was bought by AOL.
>
> IE was based on NCSA Mosaic.
>
> IE's market share has been dropping terribly over the past 2-3 years.
> It's now well under 50% of the market share.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...f_web_browsers
>
> Momentum is now on the side of alternate browsers and it's now more
> and more commonplace for users to get Firefox or Chrome or Opera than
> it was before.

Thanks for the info. If IE usage has fallen below 50%, I suppose that
calls for a celebration of sorts. :-)

>
> Microsoft's paradigm of EEE (Embrace, Enhance, Extinguish) has led
> them down a pretty bad path w/IE. Since its inception, it has been
> non-standards compliant and so web developers have had to build around
> the quirks of IE (often building dual branches, 1 for standards
> compliant browsers like Firefox and one for IE). And now that IE 8 is
> MORE standards compliant, old IE websites are breaking.
>
> And with AJax being more prevalent online, things like Chrome's huge
> performance increase in javascript engine are very notable. Especially
> when you compare it against the slow and problematic IE javascript
> engine.
>
> -goro-

On 2/23/2011 1:15 AM, Goro wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> On 2/21/2011 5:42 PM, Goro wrote:
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very quickly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>>>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>>>>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>>>>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>>>>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>>>>> technology so quickly?
>>>>
>>>> I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>>>> I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>>>> are getting too cheap. :-)
>>>
>>> Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
>>> a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
>>> main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
>>> enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
>>> really cheap.
>>>
>>>> I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh well.
>>>
>>> Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
>>> time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
>>> was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
>>> It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
>>> when it first dropped about 2 years ago.
>>
>> Hard to believe that was so long ago.
>
> So apparently, Apple is once again taking a leap forward: The new
> announcement is that Macbook Pro is going to have 16GB SSD bootdrive
> in addition to a traditional harddrive and they will also get
> Lightpeak.
>
> -goro-
>

One of these days I may do the unthinkable - get a Macbook Pro. Aye
Currumba!

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 04:15:21 -0700, Goro > wrote:

> So apparently, Apple is once again taking a leap forward: The new
> announcement is that Macbook Pro is going to have 16GB SSD bootdrive
> in addition to a traditional harddrive and they will also get
> Lightpeak.

Whatever that means.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 23 Feb 2011 15:25:47 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> Most ppl are quite happy being told what they can and connot do. Fine
> by me. I prefer making my own choices, decisions, AND mistakes. It's
> called freedom of choice, a concept diametrically opposed to the
> business philosophies of both microsoft and apple.

Most people don't possess the same computer knowledge you do in terms
of language or mechanics and they have no interest in obtaining it.
All they need is a user friendly, slightly configurable OS and
software. I don't want to need to know what POP3 is just to send an
email.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

dsi1 > wrote:
> On 2/23/2011 1:15 AM, Goro wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:29:20 -1000, > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/21/2011 5:42 PM, Goro wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SSD technology is helping mobile computing leap forwards very quickly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is true - the new frontier shouldn't be using technology using
>>>>>>> spinning platters like a record player. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Platter HDs are likely to stay around for a long time. My 256GB SSD
>>>>>> was ~$700. My 2TB HD was $110. For storage needs, i definitely use
>>>>>> HDs, but for boot drives? definitely SSD. And for portable devices,
>>>>>> natch, SSD. I guess we can thank the iPod for really pushing that
>>>>>> technology so quickly?
>>>>>
>>>>> I was looking in my drawer the other day and saw a 1TB drive in there.
>>>>> I'd forgotten that I bought one of those. My guess is that these drives
>>>>> are getting too cheap. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, way cheap. I've got 1TB - 2TB disk all over the place. I have
>>>> a Windows Server with 7TBs and a 2TB NAS in addition to the 2TB on the
>>>> main box, and 4TBs on the secondary. I also have an eSATA 4-bay drive
>>>> enclosure that i ahve 6TBs on that I haven't used yet. Capacity is
>>>> really cheap.
>>>>
>>>>> I hate to say it, but Apple is shaping the future of computing. Oh well.
>>>>
>>>> Apple has had a big say in the future of computing for quite some
>>>> time. Remember around '96 when they released the first iMac and it
>>>> was remarkable b/c it had no floppy drive and that it had USB ports?
>>>> It was ahead of its time by a few years. Similarly, the Macbook Air
>>>> when it first dropped about 2 years ago.
>>>
>>> Hard to believe that was so long ago.
>>
>> So apparently, Apple is once again taking a leap forward: The new
>> announcement is that Macbook Pro is going to have 16GB SSD bootdrive
>> in addition to a traditional harddrive and they will also get
>> Lightpeak.
>>
>> -goro-
>>
>
> One of these days I may do the unthinkable - get a Macbook Pro. Aye Currumba!

NOOOO!!!
Laptops are going the way of the dodo bird. For the price of a good Mac
Laptop one can get an iPad plus a Mac Base Computer. The iPad rocks!!! Mac
user here.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On 24/02/2011 6:32 AM, sf wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2011 15:25:47 GMT, > wrote:
>
>> Most ppl are quite happy being told what they can and connot do. Fine
>> by me. I prefer making my own choices, decisions, AND mistakes. It's
>> called freedom of choice, a concept diametrically opposed to the
>> business philosophies of both microsoft and apple.
>
> Most people don't possess the same computer knowledge you do in terms
> of language or mechanics and they have no interest in obtaining it.
> All they need is a user friendly, slightly configurable OS and
> software. I don't want to need to know what POP3 is just to send an
> email.
>
How true! Most people want to use the computer as a tool. They want it
to perform a function without delving into the innards. They don't want
to concern themselves with operating systems, hardware or the like
beyond having enough capability to do what they want. For a significant
number of people, a Mac provides just such a function. No different to
driving a car without having a clue what's going on under the hood!

Krypsis

On 24/02/2011 6:28 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 04:15:21 -0700, > wrote:
>
>> So apparently, Apple is once again taking a leap forward: The new
>> announcement is that Macbook Pro is going to have 16GB SSD bootdrive
>> in addition to a traditional harddrive and they will also get
>> Lightpeak.
>
> Whatever that means.
>
Sounds like it means you'll get to pay extra money to do what you
already do but a few microseconds faster!

Krypsis

On 2011-02-23, sf > wrote:

> software. I don't want to need to know what POP3 is just to send an
> email.

Feel free to revel in your ignorance.

Likewise, please have the decency to not expect other OSs to dumb
themselve down to your level for you're own personal convenience. If
you insist, Apple has already done this for you, provided you're
willing to agree to their ruthless EULAs and pay their exorbitant
prices.

It's all about choice!

nb

On 2011-02-23, Krypsis > wrote:

> number of people, a Mac provides just such a function. No different to
> driving a car without having a clue what's going on under the hood!

Ironically, these are often the same ppl who protest the loudest when
being ripped, gyped, and generally being bent over the table. Unless,
of course, they're also too stupid to know when they actually ARE
being hosed.

nb

On 23 Feb 2011 20:12:43 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2011-02-23, sf > wrote:
>
> > software. I don't want to need to know what POP3 is just to send an
> > email.
>
> Feel free to revel in your ignorance.
>
> Likewise, please have the decency to not expect other OSs to dumb
> themselve down to your level for you're own personal convenience. If
> you insist, Apple has already done this for you, provided you're
> willing to agree to their ruthless EULAs and pay their exorbitant
> prices.
>
> It's all about choice!
>
My choice is PC and I'm happy with it.


--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 06:51:41 +1000, atec77 > wrote:

> On 24/02/2011 5:32 AM, sf wrote:
> > On 23 Feb 2011 15:25:47 GMT, > wrote:
> >
> >> Most ppl are quite happy being told what they can and connot do. Fine
> >> by me. I prefer making my own choices, decisions, AND mistakes. It's
> >> called freedom of choice, a concept diametrically opposed to the
> >> business philosophies of both microsoft and apple.
> >
> > Most people don't possess the same computer knowledge you do in terms
> > of language or mechanics and they have no interest in obtaining it.
> > All they need is a user friendly, slightly configurable OS and
> > software. I don't want to need to know what POP3 is just to send an
> > email.
> >
> Yes you do , or the consequences of not taking the trouble to learn
> these things at a very basic level will continue to cause you problems
> in the future

I manage just fine, thank you very much. I can install,
configure/individualize and uninstall software if I want to without
knowing how to code a thing and I have no desire to build or repair
any computer on the planet. I also know that when I get into software
trouble, all I need to do is back out of the problem by retracing the
steps I got into it with. I've *never* needed to reinstall an OS the
way certain self-proclaimed computer geniuses seem to do every six
months or so nor have I needed to choose a restore point to back out
of trouble. All that without knowing or caring what a POP or a BUS
is. Gee, poor little ignorant me.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 2011-02-23, Andy > wrote:

> I remember the best thing about Unix and Linux was.....

Whatchyu mean, "was"?

nb

On 2011-02-23, l, not -l > wrote:

> (HP/UX, Solaris, BSD, Xenix to name a few), but only one that was; the rest
> were step-sisters that were different enough to be troublesome and lock you
> to a paticular vendor. At one point, to be called UNIX® your particular
> flavor had to meet the UNIX System V spec - few did; therefor, they were
> unix or Unix-like.

BSD broke the Unix stranglehold years ago. So many Unix variations
have forked so many ways, it's a non-issue. Linus is basically unix
with enough differences that it can command it's own copyright
(copyleft!!) structure.

> Of course, I also recall that before M'soft "ripped off" Apple's
> innovations, Apple was taking Xerox innovations and turning them into Apple
> innovations. If Xerox had a clue what to do with all the great stuff that
> came out of PARC, Apple would be just another Commodore/Atari/also-ran.
> 8-)

Perhaps. Sadly, Amiga was the only original player in the whole field
and even it expired due to shortsighted players.

nb

On 2011-02-23, sf > wrote:
> My choice is PC and I'm happy with it.

I have no problem with that, sf. I'm jes dumgfounded by your
perspective of "why learn more than you have to". Pretty baffling
from a former teacher.

nb

On 2/23/2011 5:36 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2011-02-20, > wrote:
>
>> put together a computer with a Intel Atom processor.....
>
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/2011/02/...-slowly-intel/
>
> nb

My interest in the Atom was that it was a rethinking of the direction of
processors at the time - simpler architexture with low power
requirements. As it goes, the processor did what it's was supposed to
do. I wasn't too wild about the performance and cringed when the
netbooks with the Atom processor became available.

OTOH, that's the way it is with groundbreaking products and it wouldn't
surprise me if the Atom is used in embedded products. In the end Intel
had it right - the day of the power hungry processors with huge
footprints on the the motherboards and complex architecture is nearing
the end. Of course, I could be wrong. :-)

On 2/23/2011 6:22 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2011-02-22, > wrote:
>
>> I can get my hardware to run with Linux just fine. Usability is another
>> issue. The geeks had over a decade to get the OS ready for regular folks
>> but they just weren't interested in that. That's the breaks.
>
> Is it that the "geeks" are not interested or the users are not
> interested?
>
> I've been using linux for 10 yrs and have had few problems. It does
> what I want it for and does it better than the others. Otherwise, why
> would I choose it. I couldn't care less if the majority of computer
> sheep don't find linux ready for prime time. Besides, seems damn
> silly to make one OS behave just like another. Pretty much defeats
> the whole point of providing a choice.

Your attitude is typical of Linux users. According to them, Linux is the
obvious choice. A lot of them had training on Unix systems and found the
transition to Linux to be fairly easy. They simply don't have a clue as
to why folk won't make the switch to Linux. Personally, I think they
could have made Linux an OS for everybody but that's not the way it
turned out. That's the breaks.

>
> You seem to throw around that geek term like it's a bad thing or only
> applies to linux users. Sorry, but geeks are the ones who cobbled up
> your precious windows and osx and even your hardware. Linux is merely
> another choice.
>

I consider myself high on the geek scale - that don't really change the
fact that the Linux geeks blew it.

> BTW, most geeks know how to use a text editor to trim absurdly long
> articles.
>
> nb

I trim, I trim! :-)