On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:49:10 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> >> Also I think, it's a fresh water fish!!!
> >
> > That certainly explains why I think it tastes bland. I didn't like
> > fish until I tasted salt water fish. Salt water fish also have
> > thicker fillets (in general)... unless it's a catfish - I *do* like
> > catfish. It's probably my favorite freshwater fish.
>
> You like tilapia better than you like trout? (I guess you've never had trout
> the way *I* make it!)
>
LOL! True. Trout isn't one of my favorites. Hubby used to love
trout, and ordered it all the time when he saw it on a menu but I
don't see it on menus or in the grocery stores anymore.

> I think I even like catfish better than I like
> tilapia, but my favorite freshwater "fish" are crawfish and freshwater eel.
> Sturgeon is being farmed in fresh water now, but also can have a muddy
> taste.

Honestly, catfish are my favorite freshwater fish and I like - tilapia
too (only because I've decided they're okay in tacos). I don't have a
problem with salt water fish. I even eat shark.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

sf > wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:49:10 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>
>>>> Also I think, it's a fresh water fish!!!
>>>
>>> That certainly explains why I think it tastes bland. I didn't like
>>> fish until I tasted salt water fish. Salt water fish also have
>>> thicker fillets (in general)... unless it's a catfish - I *do* like
>>> catfish. It's probably my favorite freshwater fish.
>>
>> You like tilapia better than you like trout? (I guess you've never had trout
>> the way *I* make it!)
>>
> LOL! True. Trout isn't one of my favorites. Hubby used to love
> trout, and ordered it all the time when he saw it on a menu but I
> don't see it on menus or in the grocery stores anymore.
>
>> I think I even like catfish better than I like
>> tilapia, but my favorite freshwater "fish" are crawfish and freshwater eel.
>> Sturgeon is being farmed in fresh water now, but also can have a muddy
>> taste.
>
> Honestly, catfish are my favorite freshwater fish and I like - tilapia
> too (only because I've decided they're okay in tacos). I don't have a
> problem with salt water fish. I even eat shark.

Shark and bug foods like like lobster, shrimp also other posters claim of
crawfish and eels, seems like the only seafood one can get. Hard to imagine
the oceans are practically fished out. In Michigan, if the DNR did not
stock the great lakes, they would not have any fish in five years. So if
you want fish these days it seems pond scum fish from Asia or nothing
because supermarkets in the US will not buy fish from it's own country.

I noticed even on some bags of Asian Tilapia, the bag states "Carbon
Monoxide Added For Flavor"? I even learned US companies do the same thing
and do not put that information on the bag.

It is hard to believe that even the oceans are being fished out.

Pickerel is not bad also. But even the great lake fish has some mercury
warnings that comes with it. I wonder if the invading Asian Carp is any
good.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article >, says...
>
> >> Landon wrote:
> >>> Tilapia is a very mild tasting fish. Similar in strength of flavor
> >>> to flounder.
>
> Ranee wrote:
> >> It may be another of my quirks, but I found tilapia to be kind of
> >> muddy tasting and a little too soft for my palate. I prefer cod for
> >> basic white fish.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
> >>
> merryb wrote:
> > I'm with you...
>
> As am I.

Tilapia is a commercially farmed fish; so think of it in terms of
commercially farmed pork or chicken. Taste and texture depend on how and
where the product was farmed, how it was fed, how much excercise it got,
etc etc. One producer 's fish will be crap and another will be fresh firm
and delicate.

Janet

'Nad wrote:

> Pickerel is not bad also. But even the great lake fish has some mercury
> warnings that comes with it. I wonder if the invading Asian Carp is any
> good.

Carp has too many bones to be enjoyably eaten. But since you mentioned the
Great Lakes, I'm surprised you didn't say anything about lamprey. From
Wikipedia:

"Lampreys have long been used as food for humans. They were highly
appreciated by ancient Romans. During the Middle Ages, they were widely
eaten by the upper classes throughout Europe, especially during fasting
periods, since their taste is much meatier than that of most true fish. King
Henry I of England is said to have died from eating "a surfeit of lampreys".
On 4 March 1953, the Queen of the United Kingdom's coronation pie was made
by the Royal Air Force using lampreys. Especially in southwestern Europe
(Portugal, Spain, and France), larger lampreys are still a highly prized
delicacy."

Bob

On Mar 30, 10:54*pm, Landon > wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:23:40 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Mar 30, 6:10*pm, Landon > wrote:
> >> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:02:34 -0800, Mark Thorson >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Landon wrote:
>
> >> >> Tilapia is a very mild tasting fish. Similar in strength of flavor to
> >> >> flounder.
>
> >> >It also has an odd texture, not like most other fish.
> >> >As I recall, it's sort of grainy. *I think I only made it
> >> >once.
>
> >> I've never noticed any graininess to the meat, but it is, IMO, very
> >> firm meat. Simply awesome for fried fish sandwiches. I had some just
> >> last week.
>
> >We have fried tilapia about once a week. *If I were a millionaire I
> >might choose a different fish, but I'm not, and tilapia is just fine,
> >salted, peppered, shaken in a bag with corn meal, fried in peanut oil
> >and served with halved lemons.
> >Tonight was taco night.
>
> >--Bryan
>
> I use canola oil and a half-half mix of flour and corn meal with my
> favorite seasonings. Tilapia is a great frying fish too. Catfish is my
> favorite sandwich fish, but the prices on those two switch places
> every other week here. I buy which ever one is the best deal.

That's fine if you're one of the folks who finds canola neutral.
Unfortunately, I don't. The reason that I don't use part flour or
masa is that you end up with less of the crunchy stuff, which may or
may not be desirable depending on one's preference.

--Bryan

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:30:57 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:15:25 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:48:41 -0500, Sqwertz >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Imperial Valley.
>>>
>>>It might come from a Motel 6 bathtub, too. Find me a label that says
>>>the source is the Imperial Valley in the supermarket.
>>>
>>>99.5% of the Tilapia comes from Asia.
>>
>> My Costco labels country of origin. Honduras or US
>
>My CostCo would never sell Tilapia. Not to mention it's illegal to
>label something with Country of Origin labeling that contains
>countries from two different continents.
>
>If it said "Hondorus or Panama", then OK (do I have my geography
>right? :-)
>
>So you might have some of that other .5%. I'm sure others are getting
>into the trash fish farming industry lately, so my figures be
>slightly outdated, I'll give you that.
>
>Not that it really matters where it came from anyway. What was your
>point, that I may be slightly wrong by 2% <gasp>, or that it's not a
>trash fish (that can taste good?) I've already said that.
>
>"82% of people do not brush their teeth at night".
>
>How much to you want to bet those other 18% are going to get indignant
>and sure as hell are going to post about it to try and prove it's not
>true?
>
>-sw

As long as we are piciking nits, my Costco sometimes has tilapia from
Honduras and sometimes from the US and they are labeled individually
as to country of origin. In fact, every supermarket or purveyor of
fish in my city labels specifically as to country of origin.
Janet

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:35:21 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:



>
>Congratulations. You are one of the petty minority. You set me up on
>a technicality.
>
>-sw
It was never my intention to do so. I had no idea until you said so
that the majority of tilapia comes from Asia. I was just telling you
what I saw in my area.
Janet

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:55:28 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:18:11 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:08:17 -0800, Mark Thorson >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, who eats fish from Asia?
>>>
>>>Anybody who eats fried fish from a fast food place,
>>>such as fish-and-chips.
>>>
>>>Many people who eat fish at a sit-down restaurant.
>>>
>>
>> Let me put it another way. *I* would never buy fish from Asia
>
>I rephrased it for you. Everybody wants to be vague, and then
>nit-pick.
>
>-sw


I will accept your censure for not being precise >
Janet

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 03:43:05 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>'Nad wrote:
>
>> Pickerel is not bad also. But even the great lake fish has some mercury
>> warnings that comes with it. I wonder if the invading Asian Carp is any
>> good.
>
>Carp has too many bones to be enjoyably eaten. But since you mentioned the
>Great Lakes, I'm surprised you didn't say anything about lamprey. From
>Wikipedia:
>
>"Lampreys have long been used as food for humans. They were highly
>appreciated by ancient Romans. During the Middle Ages, they were widely
>eaten by the upper classes throughout Europe, especially during fasting
>periods, since their taste is much meatier than that of most true fish. King
>Henry I of England is said to have died from eating "a surfeit of lampreys".
>On 4 March 1953, the Queen of the United Kingdom's coronation pie was made
>by the Royal Air Force using lampreys. Especially in southwestern Europe
>(Portugal, Spain, and France), larger lampreys are still a highly prized
>delicacy."
>
>Bob
>
>
Back in the 60's? salmon were introduced into the Great Lakes to munch
on the lampreys (who were munching on native fish and killing them
off) I can remember seeing people pulling their kid's little red
wagon behind them as they came off the breakwater with a huge salmon
draped in the wagon bed. Great white fish too.
Janet

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:26:57 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>> On Mar 30, 7:21 pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:26:36 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:16:26 -0500, Sqwertz >
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>If people saw how tilapia (and pangasius) were farmed they'd never eat
>>>>>them again. Some of them are good when raised well, but most of them
>>>>>are pretty ugly in all respects. Find a good brand and stick with it.
>>>
>>>>>Pangasius are then released into dead and fermenting Tilapia ponds to
>>>>>clean the bottoms. Then they sell those pangasius, throw in some
>>>>>chemicals, and start another batch of Tilapia. That is the typical SE
>>>>>Asian cycle for Walmart Fish.
>>>
>>>> But, who eats fish from Asia?
>>>
>>> Find a tilapia or pangasius that ISN'T from Asian and then call me
>>> again.
>>
>> In California tilapia might well come from the Imperial Valley.
>
> It might come from a Motel 6 bathtub, too. Find me a label that says
> the source is the Imperial Valley in the supermarket.
>
> 99.5% of the Tilapia comes from Asia.
>
> What the **** is up with everybody's nit-picking??
>
> I know. May 25th <sigh>.
>
It's May 21st :-P

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>
> The solution is to acquaint yourself with the Monterey Bay
> Aquarium's
> guide to sustainable seafood, and follow its guidelines. I'm not
> evangelizing, but I do feel that many fish are being irresponsibly
> demanded out of ignorance. (Orange roughy, for example, is almost
> extinct because of rapacious overfishing, but I still see it in the
> supermarket and on restaurant menus. Why? Because people buy it, of
> course!)

I love orange roughy but don't buy it, even though it has recently
been removed from the endangered list. The fish takes an amazing 50
years to breed, so I'll do my tiny part to let the species recover.
I've expounded long and hard before about the overfishing which has
decimated the industry, which
I see even in my own State.
Additionally, the factory boats, plus the demand, have wreaked havoc
and I can't see a rebound in the foreseeable future.

Dora

On 2011-03-31, Dora > wrote:

> Additionally, the factory boats, plus the demand, have wreaked havoc
> and I can't see a rebound in the foreseeable future.

Good for you, Dora!

Anyone who believes fish stocks are rebounding or aquaculture is gonna
save us is delusional. Sure, talapia is a poor substitute for cod,
but eating it ain't gonna turn our oceans into a sterile wasteland
that will end life as we know it on this floating rock.

Red beans and rice!!

nb

Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> But, who eats fish from Asia?
> Janet

Not if I can help it.

In article >, says...
>
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
> >
> > But, who eats fish from Asia?
> > Janet
>
> Not if I can help it.

If you eat prawns, best read the label

Janet

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:02:25 -0400, "Dora" > wrote:

>I love orange roughy but don't buy it, even though it has recently
>been removed from the endangered list. The fish takes an amazing 50
>years to breed, so I'll do my tiny part to let the species recover.
>I've expounded long and hard before about the overfishing which has
>decimated the industry, which
>I see even in my own State.
>Additionally, the factory boats, plus the demand, have wreaked havoc
>and I can't see a rebound in the foreseeable future.

The breeding seems to be anywhere between 20 and 40 years, depending
on the location and conditions.

Here's a bit more information about the Orange Roughy species:

"Orange roughy are oceanodromous, non-guarding pelagic spawners: that
is, they migrate several hundred kilometers between localized spawning
and feeding areas each year and form large spawning aggregations
(possibly segregated according to sex) wherein the fish release large,
spherical eggs 2.25 millimetres (0.089 in) in diameter, made buoyant
by an orange-red oil globule) and sperm en masse directly into the
water. The fertilized eggs which are said to be 2.0 to 2.5 mm, (and
later larvae) are planktonic, rising to around 200 meters (656 ft) to
develop, with the young fish eventually descending to deeper waters as
they mature.

Orange Roughy are also synchronous, shedding sperm and eggs at the
same time. The time between fertilization and hatching is thought to
be 10 to 20 days; fecundity is low, with each female producing only
22,000 eggs per kilogram of body weight which is less than 10 per cent
of the average for other species of fish. Also, spawning can last up
to 2-3 weeks and starts around June or July. Orange roughy are very
slow-growing, reaching maturity at 20-40 years of age.

The maturation age used in stock assessments ranges from 23–40 years,
which limits population growth/recovery, because each new generation
takes so long to start spawning.

LifespanThe maximum published age of 149 years was determined via
radiometric dating of trace isotopes found in an orange roughy's
otolith ("ear bone"). Similarly, counting by the growth rings of
orange roughy otoliths has given a maximum age of 125 to 156 years.The
validity of these results is questioned by commercial fishers as some
state the former method is controversial and the latter method is
known to underestimate age in older specimens. The issue has yet to be
resolved definitively but carries important implications relating to
the orange roughy's conservation status."

"Landon" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:44:51 -0400, wrote:
>
>>My wife wants me to cook tilapia. I've never had it. First off, is it a
>>"fishy"
>>tasting fish or nice and clean tasting like flounder, cod, halibut, etc? I
>>don't
>>like fishy tasting. And does anyone have a nice, simple oven baked recipe
>>for
>>it? I have yellow corn meal, flour, Old Bay seasoning and some other
>>spices.
>>Also, anyone here do fried flounder? Have a simple recipe for that too/
>>Thanks.
>>And yes, I know there's Google, but I like to pick the brains of people
>>who
>>actually do the cooking.
>
> Tilapia is a very mild tasting fish. Similar in strength of flavor to
> flounder.
>
> It's so mild tasting that you probably want to stay away from the
> stronger tasting seasonings like Old Bay unless you use a very, very
> tiny bit of it.
>
(snippage)

I don't agree with this statement. Tilapia is *so* mild it needs something
to give it a boost. I don't think the OP wants bland, boring fish. He just
doesn't want "fishy" tasting fish. I don't, either. Tilapia is easy with
some seasonings. I often pan-fry tilapia in a little neutral oil (canola or
corn) coated in a mixture of cornmeal with a little Zattarains seasoned fish
fry coating. It comes out crispy and flavourful on the outside, moist,
tender and flaky inside. Doesn't take long to cook at all, maybe 3-5
minutes on each side in the pan. Delicious!

Jill

On 2011-03-31, Dora > wrote:
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>
>> But, who eats fish from Asia?
>> Janet
>
> Not if I can help it.

Not sure I understand all this anti-Asian fish thing. Where do you
think 95% of our shrimp comes from? The Azores? You think there is no
pollution in US waters? No heavy metals? Puh-leeze!

The US is the most heavily fertilized, herbicided, and insecticided
nation on Earth. Ever hear of Love Canal? Didja see the movie, Erin
Brockovich? You think all that stuff degrades before washing out to
sea? You think US companies are any less nefarious and greedy than
Chinese companies. Silly girl.

Even with yearly flushing of CAs extensive irrigation system, by time
the Winter's snowfall reaches the ocean, the residual heavy metals
from 160 yrs ago have so polluted the CA Delta, fish are LOADED w/
toxic mercury from the CA Gold Rush. CA DFG warns against eating more
than 2 fish per wk, and waterfowl, too! There's a reason why CA Cajun
festivals import LA crawfish when the CA delta is crawling with the
bugs.

So, we get all crazy and paranoid about some Chinese toothpaste while
our own country is pumping us full of GMOs and other more dangerous
crap while our govt turns its greased-palm heads. Ever wonder why
all the warning flags and flares go off on Asian imports, while our
own govt is complicit in poisoning us on an everyday basis?

DUH!

nb

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 04:20:14 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
> wrote:

>On Mar 30, 10:54*pm, Landon > wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:23:40 -0700 (PDT), Bryan
>> > wrote:
>> >On Mar 30, 6:10*pm, Landon > wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:02:34 -0800, Mark Thorson >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Landon wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Tilapia is a very mild tasting fish. Similar in strength of flavor to
>> >> >> flounder.
>>
>> >> >It also has an odd texture, not like most other fish.
>> >> >As I recall, it's sort of grainy. *I think I only made it
>> >> >once.
>>
>> >> I've never noticed any graininess to the meat, but it is, IMO, very
>> >> firm meat. Simply awesome for fried fish sandwiches. I had some just
>> >> last week.
>>
>> >We have fried tilapia about once a week. *If I were a millionaire I
>> >might choose a different fish, but I'm not, and tilapia is just fine,
>> >salted, peppered, shaken in a bag with corn meal, fried in peanut oil
>> >and served with halved lemons.
>> >Tonight was taco night.
>>
>> I use canola oil and a half-half mix of flour and corn meal with my
>> favorite seasonings. Tilapia is a great frying fish too. Catfish is my
>> favorite sandwich fish, but the prices on those two switch places
>> every other week here. I buy which ever one is the best deal.
>
>That's fine if you're one of the folks who finds canola neutral.
>Unfortunately, I don't. The reason that I don't use part flour or
>masa is that you end up with less of the crunchy stuff, which may or
>may not be desirable depending on one's preference.

I taste the Canola, but the flavor of it is one that is acceptable to
me when mixed with various foods.

I love *some* cornmeal crunch, but not when its used exclusively as a
coating. I found the half and half mix with flour gives me the best of
both worlds.

Isn't it cool how we all have different tastes? It makes recipes much
more fun.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:01:07 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 23:17:50 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:
>
>> To avoid wasting the
>> waste, the business owner installed giant tubs filled with what would
>> be marketed as "farm-raised" catfish under the chickens.
>
>I can only say that those catfish were put to work doing what they do
>naturally. I wonder what they tasted like? It certainly wasn't
>"mud".

You have a delightful sense of humor, sf! Ha!

It tasted like chicken.... poop!

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-03-31, Dora > wrote:
>
>> Additionally, the factory boats, plus the demand, have wreaked havoc
>> and I can't see a rebound in the foreseeable future.
>
> Good for you, Dora!
>
> Anyone who believes fish stocks are rebounding or aquaculture is gonna
> save us is delusional. Sure, talapia is a poor substitute for cod,
> but eating it ain't gonna turn our oceans into a sterile wasteland
> that will end life as we know it on this floating rock.
>
> Red beans and rice!!
>
> nb


What is wrong with fish farms? Maybe where you live there are no fish
farms. I've seen plenty of them. Trust me, the catfish are jumping and so
are the tilapia.

Jill

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:17:58 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>Back in the 60's? salmon were introduced into the Great Lakes to munch
>on the lampreys (who were munching on native fish and killing them
>off) I can remember seeing people pulling their kid's little red
>wagon behind them as they came off the breakwater with a huge salmon
>draped in the wagon bed. Great white fish too.

That's like the Catfish in the St. Johns River, here in Florida. There
are some that are unbelievably huge!

I once saw a carcass that some person left after cleaning the fish
that the head was an amazing 3 feet wide, without counting the spines.
The fish itself must have been HUGE like this world record catfish:

http://www.sportsmanshabitat.com/wp-...rd-catfish.jpg

Catching catfish in the river here is so easy it crazy. Milk Jug tied
to the line so that the bait, rotten chicken livers, sits just above
the bottom. Then you tie the jug to a stout cord to pull it in when it
dips sharply. That's 100% USA catfish there!

On 2011-03-31, jmcquown > wrote:

> What is wrong with fish farms? Maybe where you live there are no fish
> farms. I've seen plenty of them. Trust me, the catfish are jumping and so
> are the tilapia.

I shoulda specified ocean aqua-culture. I'm all for talapia and
catfish fish farms, so long as they're regulated. Both are
viable and sustainable alternatives. Catfish and talapia are both
herbivore, as opposed to salmon, which is a carnivore and require two
pounds of fish protein per 1 lb of weight gain. Not a good equation.

nb

In article >,
says...
>
> What is wrong with fish farms?

What is wrong with intensive fish farms is that fish were never designed
to live in cramped confinement with other fish. Crowded fish are a hotbed
of fish disease and parasites; making them smaller weaker and therefore
less profitable. To overcome the heavy infestatitons of parasites and
disease they are heavily medicated with insecticide and antibiotics. So,
number one what's wrong is the uptake of chemicals from eating the fish.

The second, is that fish farmed in sea and rivers, contaminate the sea
and river bed (therefore the natural ecology) with their medicated waste;
and they are also a source of infection to wild species in the area.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6464126_eff...h-farming.html

(in case you think the above only happens in the third world, some of
the worst examples have been in the UK, USA and Norway.)

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/fis...rigs-and-fish-
farms/mercury-fishfarms/

Janet

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:34:44 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:
>"Landon" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Tilapia is a very mild tasting fish. Similar in strength of flavor to
>> flounder.
>>
>> It's so mild tasting that you probably want to stay away from the
>> stronger tasting seasonings like Old Bay unless you use a very, very
>> tiny bit of it.
>>
>(snippage)
>
>I don't agree with this statement. Tilapia is *so* mild it needs something
>to give it a boost. I don't think the OP wants bland, boring fish. He just
>doesn't want "fishy" tasting fish. I don't, either. Tilapia is easy with
>some seasonings. I often pan-fry tilapia in a little neutral oil (canola or
>corn) coated in a mixture of cornmeal with a little Zattarains seasoned fish
>fry coating. It comes out crispy and flavourful on the outside, moist,
>tender and flaky inside. Doesn't take long to cook at all, maybe 3-5
>minutes on each side in the pan. Delicious!

Our difference in what we like or not is part of what makes each of us
unique! The "IMO" should be naturally added to any opinionated
statement without it actually having to be typed...

I've never noticed any graininess to the meat, but it is, IMO, very
firm meat. Simply awesome for fried fish sandwiches.Yes, soft. More so than other fish.

Everyone prefers cod. Much firmer fish.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:32:16 +0100, Janet > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > What is wrong with fish farms?
>
> What is wrong with intensive fish farms is that fish were never designed
> to live in cramped confinement with other fish. Crowded fish are a hotbed
> of fish disease and parasites; making them smaller weaker and therefore
> less profitable. To overcome the heavy infestatitons of parasites and
> disease they are heavily medicated with insecticide and antibiotics. So,
> number one what's wrong is the uptake of chemicals from eating the fish.
>
> The second, is that fish farmed in sea and rivers, contaminate the sea
> and river bed (therefore the natural ecology) with their medicated waste;
> and they are also a source of infection to wild species in the area.
>
> http://www.ehow.com/list_6464126_eff...h-farming.html
>
> (in case you think the above only happens in the third world, some of
> the worst examples have been in the UK, USA and Norway.)
>
> http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/fis...rigs-and-fish-
> farms/mercury-fishfarms/
>
So we're caught between a rock and a hard place: fish farms or over
fishing.


--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:03:51 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> In fact, every supermarket or purveyor of
> fish in my city labels specifically as to country of origin.

A lot is regulated here, but I don't see many labels with country or
origin... so either there are very few with country of origin or we
really don't get much from somewhere else. I don't know, but you'd
think a city that's outlawed plastic bags would want to know where
their food originated.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:32:16 +0100, Janet > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > >
> > > What is wrong with fish farms?
> >
> > What is wrong with intensive fish farms is that fish were never designed
> > to live in cramped confinement with other fish. Crowded fish are a hotbed
> > of fish disease and parasites; making them smaller weaker and therefore
> > less profitable. To overcome the heavy infestatitons of parasites and
> > disease they are heavily medicated with insecticide and antibiotics. So,
> > number one what's wrong is the uptake of chemicals from eating the fish.
> >
> > The second, is that fish farmed in sea and rivers, contaminate the sea
> > and river bed (therefore the natural ecology) with their medicated waste;
> > and they are also a source of infection to wild species in the area.
> >
> > http://www.ehow.com/list_6464126_eff...h-farming.html
> >
> > (in case you think the above only happens in the third world, some of
> > the worst examples have been in the UK, USA and Norway.)
> >
> > http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/fis...rigs-and-fish-
> > farms/mercury-fishfarms/
> >
> So we're caught between a rock and a hard place: fish farms or over
> fishing.

The alternative, is properly managed, ethical fish farming. Just like
properly managed, ethical meat production. The bottom line is that
consumers need to educate themselves about how their food is produced and
shop accordingly.The market depends on us.

Janet

On 2011-03-31, Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:

> any number of the other things that are deliberately pumped into the
> food supply in China. They are willing to deliberately (not even a we
> didn't know this might happen, or there's a risk of this happening, but
> deliberately using lead and other heavy metals, plastics, etc, that are
> known poisons) poison their pets, their people and their babies.

Deliberately? They pump it into exports and leave it out of their domestic
products? And we aren't doing the same thing?

I did not take you for someone so biased and/or naive.

nb

On 2011-03-31, Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:

> I've yet to have it firm and delicate.

"firm and delicate"!?

Name one meat that meets that criteria.

nb

On 2011-03-31, Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:

> wild caught American or Canadian.

Name one provider selling that product!

nb

On 2011-03-31, Janet > wrote:

> The alternative, is properly managed, ethical fish farming. Just like
> properly managed, ethical meat production. The bottom line is that
> consumers need to educate themselves about how their food is produced and
> shop accordingly.The market depends on us.

Sic 'em, Janet! Common sense is a disappearing commodity.

nb

On 3/31/2011 12:17 AM, Nad R wrote:

> Shark and bug foods like like lobster, shrimp also other posters claim of
> crawfish and eels, seems like the only seafood one can get. Hard to imagine
> the oceans are practically fished out. In Michigan, if the DNR did not
> stock the great lakes, they would not have any fish in five years. So if
> you want fish these days it seems pond scum fish from Asia or nothing
> because supermarkets in the US will not buy fish from it's own country.
>
> I noticed even on some bags of Asian Tilapia, the bag states "Carbon
> Monoxide Added For Flavor"? I even learned US companies do the same thing
> and do not put that information on the bag.

Carbon monoxide is typically used to treat ahi to keep the flesh a
bright red color and therefore allow it a longer window of opportunity
of sale in the US. CO is mostly known as a killer of families as they
sleep in the states or as a suicide gas in Japan so "odorless smoke" or
"tasteless smoke" is what they call it here. As far as I know, the
practice is illegal in Japan but the FDA allows it here.

Tilapia is mostly a white fish so my guess is that the effect is not as
dramatic as when treating ahi however, it might be that most of the
tilapia from China is treated with CO. The gas itself is harmless when
used in this application. OTOH, it gives the impression that the fish is
fresher than it really is. OTOH, tilapia is a pretty generic whitefish
and I suspect that it's mostly treated as a commodity item.

>
> It is hard to believe that even the oceans are being fished out.
>
> Pickerel is not bad also. But even the great lake fish has some mercury
> warnings that comes with it. I wonder if the invading Asian Carp is any
> good.
>

On 2011-03-31, Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:


> I thought it was federal, maybe it's state. All our food is labeled
> by country of origin, produce tags have it, meat and fish has it, frozen
> veggies and fruit have it.

But it's illegal to label whether or not it's GMO (genetically
modified organisms). Why!?

nb

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:51:52 -0700, Ranee at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

>In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:03:51 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > In fact, every supermarket or purveyor of
>> > fish in my city labels specifically as to country of origin.
>>
>> A lot is regulated here, but I don't see many labels with country or
>> origin... so either there are very few with country of origin or we
>> really don't get much from somewhere else. I don't know, but you'd
>> think a city that's outlawed plastic bags would want to know where
>> their food originated.
>
> I thought it was federal, maybe it's state. All our food is labeled
>by country of origin, produce tags have it, meat and fish has it, frozen
>veggies and fruit have it.
>
>Regards,
>Ranee @ Arabian Knits

You're completely correct, Ranée. If you look in the quote below,
you'll see wild and farmed fish included.

"Country of Origin Labeling is a labeling law that requires retailers,
such as full-line grocery stores, supermarkets, and club warehouse
stores, notify their customers with information regarding the source
of certain foods. Food products, (covered commodities) contained in
the law include muscle cut and ground meats: beef, veal, pork, lamb,
goat, and chicken; wild and farm-raised fish and shellfish; fresh and
frozen fruits and vegetables; peanuts, pecans, and macadamia nuts; and
ginseng. Regulations for fish and shellfish covered commodities (7 CFR
Part 60) became effective in 2005. The final rule for all covered
commodities (7 CFR Part 60 and Part 65) went into effect on March 16,
2009. AMS is responsible for administration and enforcement of COOL."

From: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/cool

On 31 Mar 2011 18:04:18 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2011-03-31, Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:
>
>
>> I thought it was federal, maybe it's state. All our food is labeled
>> by country of origin, produce tags have it, meat and fish has it, frozen
>> veggies and fruit have it.
>
>But it's illegal to label whether or not it's GMO (genetically
>modified organisms). Why!?

Is it illegal or just not necessary because they're considered alike?
I watched that movie you posted a link to and I didn't hear anything
about it being illegal to label. Did I miss that part?

Lou

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:07:09 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

>In article >,
> notbob > wrote:
>
>> Not sure I understand all this anti-Asian fish thing. Where do you
>> think 95% of our shrimp comes from? The Azores? You think there is no
>> pollution in US waters? No heavy metals? Puh-leeze!
>>
>> The US is the most heavily fertilized, herbicided, and insecticided
>> nation on Earth. Ever hear of Love Canal? Didja see the movie, Erin
>> Brockovich? You think all that stuff degrades before washing out to
>> sea? You think US companies are any less nefarious and greedy than
>> Chinese companies. Silly girl.
>>
>> Even with yearly flushing of CAs extensive irrigation system, by time
>> the Winter's snowfall reaches the ocean, the residual heavy metals
>> from 160 yrs ago have so polluted the CA Delta, fish are LOADED w/
>> toxic mercury from the CA Gold Rush. CA DFG warns against eating more
>> than 2 fish per wk, and waterfowl, too! There's a reason why CA Cajun
>> festivals import LA crawfish when the CA delta is crawling with the
>> bugs.
>>
>> So, we get all crazy and paranoid about some Chinese toothpaste while
>> our own country is pumping us full of GMOs and other more dangerous
>> crap while our govt turns its greased-palm heads. Ever wonder why
>> all the warning flags and flares go off on Asian imports, while our
>> own govt is complicit in poisoning us on an everyday basis?
>
> I agree with the problems of our own government and food policies,
>however, that doesn't mean I want to ingest lead, melamine, plastic or
>any number of the other things that are deliberately pumped into the
>food supply in China. They are willing to deliberately (not even a we
>didn't know this might happen, or there's a risk of this happening, but
>deliberately using lead and other heavy metals, plastics, etc, that are
>known poisons) poison their pets, their people and their babies. That
>does not bode well for what they will send to other nations.
>
>Regards,
>Ranee @ Arabian Knits

"The levels of the contaminants that have been found are very low,
most often at or near the minimum level of detection. As a result, the
health risk posed by the detected drugs is primarily from long-term
exposure. Nitrofurans, malachite green, and gentian violet have been
shown to be carcinogenic in study animals, while the use of
fluoroquinolones in food animals may increase antibiotic resistance in
human pathogens. Based on the sum of all current information, FDA
believes that risk to U.S. consumers due to these drugs in seafood
products from China is minimal, and do not represent an immediate risk
to public health."

From:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/P...m119105.htm#q2

On 3/31/2011 1:03 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 3/31/2011 12:17 AM, Nad R wrote:
>
>> Shark and bug foods like like lobster, shrimp also other posters claim of
>> crawfish and eels, seems like the only seafood one can get. Hard to
>> imagine
>> the oceans are practically fished out. In Michigan, if the DNR did not
>> stock the great lakes, they would not have any fish in five years. So if
>> you want fish these days it seems pond scum fish from Asia or nothing
>> because supermarkets in the US will not buy fish from it's own country.
>>
>> I noticed even on some bags of Asian Tilapia, the bag states "Carbon
>> Monoxide Added For Flavor"? I even learned US companies do the same thing
>> and do not put that information on the bag.
>
> Carbon monoxide is typically used to treat ahi to keep the flesh a
> bright red color and therefore allow it a longer window of opportunity
> of sale in the US. CO is mostly known as a killer of families as they
> sleep in the states or as a suicide gas in Japan so "odorless smoke" or
> "tasteless smoke" is what they call it here. As far as I know, the
> practice is illegal in Japan but the FDA allows it here.
>
> Tilapia is mostly a white fish so my guess is that the effect is not as
> dramatic as when treating ahi however, it might be that most of the
> tilapia from China is treated with CO. The gas itself is harmless when
> used in this application. OTOH, it gives the impression that the fish is
> fresher than it really is. OTOH, tilapia is a pretty generic whitefish
> and I suspect that it's mostly treated as a commodity item.

I understand some big-box stores like wallyworld pump carbon monoxide in
the packaging of their "fresh" meats (beef, pork, etc.) to keep the
color pristine for a longer period of time. Ever notice how those
packages are constructed?? Somehow, using CO seems suspect to me when
it's used for this particular purpose.

Shopping at wallyworld is something I try to avoid for various reasons,
poor quality meats being one of those. Not to mention, their produce is
some of the worst I've seen - ever!

Sky

--

Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:06:17 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

>I won't buy Purina cat or chicken feed because of the junk in it that isn't good for
>those animals...

Yikes! I better quit feeding Dinky, who has eaten Purina foods for his
entire 13 years of life, that nasty stuff! hehe, just yanking your
chain, Ranée. My other cat, Bammers, who also ate Purina his entire
life, lived in great health for 19 years.

I think, IMHO, the negativity behind Purina's so-called contamination
is just nonsense spread by their competitors.

Have you any cites for this Purina contamination from anyone who lists
the testing done? I'd be very interested to read them.

Lou Decruss > wrote:

>On 31 Mar 2011 18:04:18 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>>On 2011-03-31, Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:

>>
>>> I thought it was federal, maybe it's state. All our food is labeled
>>> by country of origin, produce tags have it, meat and fish has it, frozen
>>> veggies and fruit have it.
>>
>>But it's illegal to label whether or not it's GMO (genetically
>>modified organisms). Why!?

>Is it illegal or just not necessary because they're considered alike?

I see plenty of foods labeled "non GMO". Furthermore, in the U.S.
food labeled organic cannot be GMO.

Steve