On 4/24/2011 12:00 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 4/23/2011 3:51 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2011 9:57 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>>>> Yeah, all those apps doing whatever they want without you knowing,
>>>> who signed up for that. Installing data collecting or whatever it is
>>>> they do.
>>>
>>> I have to turn on the location services when I use apps like Google
>>> Sky. It's a hassle but it's a super bitchin' app. Thanks Google!
>>
>> Some of the stuff looks like a lot of fun, that's for sure. And a lot
>> of the apps look really handy, too.
>> nancy
>
> Google Sky will give you a star map on your display that's somehow
> coordinated to the night sky. It labels your view. Beats the heck out of
> me how it can do this.

The visible night sky is well mapped and there have been apps around for
a long time. If you know your position on earth and the time of day you
can present the appropriate map showing what it is possible to see.
Pretty much the same as the way a GPS displays a map. It determines
where it is relative to a model of the earth and then gets the known
mapping info it has for that location and displays it.

On 4/24/2011 7:24 AM, Andy wrote:
> "Nancy > wrote:
>
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 4/23/2011 9:57 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>>>> Yeah, all those apps doing whatever they want without you knowing,
>>>> who signed up for that. Installing data collecting or whatever it is
>>>> they do.
>>>
>>> I have to turn on the location services when I use apps like Google
>>> Sky. It's a hassle but it's a super bitchin' app. Thanks Google!
>>
>> Some of the stuff looks like a lot of fun, that's for sure. And a lot
>> of the apps look really handy, too.
>>
>> nancy
>
>
> To whom it may concern
>
> There's a built in measure of precaution on the iPhone.
>
> It will toss up a yes/no dialog about, "the application would like to
> know your location."
>
> It's not a behind your back hack!!!


And without delving into if it actually works how would you know it
actually does anything? It isn't some sort of easily observable thing
like turning off the light in the bedroom.

>
> I'm growing tired of parading for the success of the iPhone.
>
> It's not Apple related.

Sure it is. Apple is a manufacturer of devices and it squarely shares
the responsibility just like all other manufacturers of similar devices
do. Why exactly was Apple recording everyones position? What else does
the device do that we don't know about?

Personal smart communications devices are becoming very pervasive and
there are many people like me who want to know exactly what they are
doing and how the providers and manufacturers are respecting my freedom
and privacy. It isn't at all acceptable to not expect more from them.


>
> You scaredycat folks should've known this from the start!!!!!!
>
> Andy

Known what? That we always need to be vigilant?

George wrote:

> And without delving into if it actually works how would you know it
> actually does anything? It isn't some sort of easily observable thing
> like turning off the light in the bedroom.

Not to be paranoid, but the same thing crossed my mind.
A lot of these people have shown that they don't respect
privacy and don't get why people think it's a big deal. Sort
of like facebook changing privacy settings on a whim every
now and then. Ooops, sorry ... then two months later they
pull another stunt.

> Personal smart communications devices are becoming very pervasive and
> there are many people like me who want to know exactly what they are
> doing and how the providers and manufacturers are respecting my
> freedom and privacy. It isn't at all acceptable to not expect more
> from them.

It's not like these devices are free. They cost a lot of money, one
would hope they'd be for your use, not for the selling to collect data
about you. Maybe they should pay *you* to carry around these
devices that are collecting data for them.

nancy

nancy

On 2011-04-24, George > wrote:

> Known what? That we always need to be vigilant?

This kinda crap is becoming all too pervasive. Car rentals not only
started putting GPS devices in cars, but fined folks for exceeding the
speed limit in the vehicle. That got shot down tout de suite cuz the
cops didn't like the competition, but other slimey stuff remains.
Most ppl are unaware some ABS braking systems can record vehicle
speeds, so if you are in an accident and the device reveals you were
speeding when you hit the brakes, your insurance can use that info to
negate any claim you might file. Hello! That $100 mo you've been
paying is money down the toilet cuz your car jes ratted you out! :|

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2011-04-24, George > wrote:
>
>> Known what? That we always need to be vigilant?

> Most ppl are unaware some ABS braking systems can record vehicle
> speeds, so if you are in an accident and the device reveals you were
> speeding when you hit the brakes, your insurance can use that info to
> negate any claim you might file. Hello! That $100 mo you've been
> paying is money down the toilet cuz your car jes ratted you out! :|

I know they started putting black boxes into cars, I imagine they
all have them at this point. I guess.

nancy

"notbob" > wrote
> Most ppl are unaware some ABS braking systems can record vehicle
> speeds, so if you are in an accident and the device reveals you were
> speeding when you hit the brakes, your insurance can use that info to
> negate any claim you might file. Hello! That $100 mo you've been
> paying is money down the toilet cuz your car jes ratted you out! :|
>
> nb

Do you have information that any claims have been denied? I know the
information has been used in investigations, but I have never heard of a
claim denied.

On 2011-04-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> Do you have information that any claims have been denied?

I'm not an insurance company.

> information has been used in investigations, but I have never heard of a
> claim denied.

Well Hell, it must not have happened, then. We all know how
scrupulously honest insurance companies are.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-04-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> Do you have information that any claims have been denied?
>
> I'm not an insurance company.
>
>> information has been used in investigations, but I have never heard of a
>> claim denied.
>
> Well Hell, it must not have happened, then. We all know how
> scrupulously honest insurance companies are.
>
> nb

What happens is, people make statements with no facts to back them up. They
they carry on as it is fact. If anyone has evidence of a claim denied by a
black box investigation, I'd be interested in knowing about it. Until then,
it is pure speculation.

On 2011-04-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> it is pure speculation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_d...ence_in_courts

If you want more details, find 'em yerself.

nb

On 4/24/2011 9:15 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> And without delving into if it actually works how would you know it
>> actually does anything? It isn't some sort of easily observable thing
>> like turning off the light in the bedroom.
>
> Not to be paranoid, but the same thing crossed my mind.
> A lot of these people have shown that they don't respect
> privacy and don't get why people think it's a big deal. Sort


Sleezy folks who lack a moral compass never think they are sleezy.


> of like facebook changing privacy settings on a whim every now and then.
> Ooops, sorry ... then two months later they pull another stunt.
>> Personal smart communications devices are becoming very pervasive and
>> there are many people like me who want to know exactly what they are
>> doing and how the providers and manufacturers are respecting my
>> freedom and privacy. It isn't at all acceptable to not expect more
>> from them.
>
> It's not like these devices are free. They cost a lot of money, one
> would hope they'd be for your use, not for the selling to collect data
> about you. Maybe they should pay *you* to carry around these
> devices that are collecting data for them.

Exactly, Offer a free device and service for anyone who wants it with
the condition users give up all privacy. If someone pays for a device
and service you respect their privacy rights.

>
> nancy
>
> nancy

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-04-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> it is pure speculation.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_d...ence_in_courts
>
> If you want more details, find 'em yerself.
>
> nb

Still pure speculation that claims are denied. I already said it is used as
an investigative tool, but there is still no evidence of a claim being
denied. Investigation can shift the blame to an irresponsible party, prove
speeding, etc, but that is different than denying a claim.

Slam into a tree and if proven you are speeding, the insurance company is
till obligated to pay. The recorder just proves you were at fault and in
violation of the traffic laws. When you find one that does not pay, get
back to me.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> atec77 wrote:
>>
>> On 23/04/2011 2:42 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
>> > atec77 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have avoided then apple phones with good reason, I simply dislike
>> >> the
>> >> apple ethos and now it seems that feeling was correct , my current htc
>> >> runs a free o/s which appears to not have secrets
>> >
>> > I don't know about that.
>> >
>> > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1379597
>
>> Free not the one the factory installed so having complied it there is a
>> good chance it's less buggy , see you made an assumption instead of
>> asking if unsure
>
> It's worse than you think.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379995

Wow, and she is so very credible too!
Russian Vera Svechina, a former Geisha hostess in Japan, claims Google is
'inside my head, making me do things.'

On 2011-04-24, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> violation of the traffic laws. When you find one that does not pay, get
> back to me.

Get back to yerself.

If it is not occuring now, you can bet lobbyists are working on it. A
chance for an insurance company to weasel out of paying huge medical
claims? Please!

nb

atec77 wrote:
>
> On 23/04/2011 2:42 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
> > atec77 wrote:
> >>
> >> I have avoided then apple phones with good reason, I simply dislike the
> >> apple ethos and now it seems that feeling was correct , my current htc
> >> runs a free o/s which appears to not have secrets
> >
> > I don't know about that.
> >
> > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1379597

> Free not the one the factory installed so having complied it there is a
> good chance it's less buggy , see you made an assumption instead of
> asking if unsure

It's worse than you think.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379995

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > atec77 wrote:
> >>
> >> On 23/04/2011 2:42 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
> >> > atec77 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I have avoided then apple phones with good reason, I simply dislike
> >> >> the
> >> >> apple ethos and now it seems that feeling was correct , my current htc
> >> >> runs a free o/s which appears to not have secrets
> >> >
> >> > I don't know about that.
> >> >
> >> > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1379597
> >
> >> Free not the one the factory installed so having complied it there is a
> >> good chance it's less buggy , see you made an assumption instead of
> >> asking if unsure
> >
> > It's worse than you think.
> >
> > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379995
>
> Wow, and she is so very credible too!
> Russian Vera Svechina, a former Geisha hostess in Japan, claims Google is
> 'inside my head, making me do things.'

Any company that would track your movements
would do that too!

On Apr 24, 2:23*am, George > wrote:
> On 4/24/2011 12:00 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/23/2011 3:51 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
> >> dsi1 wrote:
> >>> On 4/23/2011 9:57 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >>>> Yeah, all those apps doing whatever they want without you knowing,
> >>>> who signed up for that. Installing data collecting or whatever it is
> >>>> they do.
>
> >>> I have to turn on the location services when I use apps like Google
> >>> Sky. It's a hassle but it's a super bitchin' app. Thanks Google!
>
> >> Some of the stuff looks like a lot of fun, that's for sure. And a lot
> >> of the apps look really handy, too.
> >> nancy
>
> > Google Sky will give you a star map on your display that's somehow
> > coordinated to the night sky. It labels your view. Beats the heck out of
> > me how it can do this.
>
> The visible night sky is well mapped and there have been apps around for
> a long time. If you know your position on earth and the time of day you
> can present the appropriate map showing what it is possible to see.
> Pretty much the same as the way a GPS displays a map. It determines
> where it is relative to a model of the earth and then gets the known
> mapping info it has for that location and displays it.

Computer star maps have been around for a while. This is different.
Google Sky can transpose the star map against the sky. It has to know
the azimuth and degree of tilt of the phone in addition to the GPS
info. It calculates this in real time. Somehow it knows the
orientation of the phone in space. As far as I know, I've never
calibrated the phone.

On Apr 24, 3:45*am, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> notbob wrote:
> > On 2011-04-24, George > wrote:
>
> >> Known what? That we always need to be vigilant?
> > Most ppl are unaware some ABS braking systems can record vehicle
> > speeds, so if you are in an accident and the device reveals you were
> > speeding when you hit the brakes, your insurance can use that info to
> > negate any claim you might file. *Hello! *That $100 mo you've been
> > paying is money down the toilet cuz your car jes ratted you out! *:|
>
> I know they started putting black boxes into cars, I imagine they
> all have them at this point. *I guess. *
>
> nancy

Modern cars have computer controllers in place to keep emissions under
control and to have the desired mix of performance and fuel
efficiency. In order to do this, it keeps tab on engine conditions and
vehicle speed. They're not black boxes in the sense of being a
fortified data gathering device. They are actually the heart of the
emission control system.

As far as I know the boxes are proprietary systems belonging to the
manufacturer and any data that may remain in the computers after a
crash is not available to
outside agencies.

dsi1 wrote:
> On Apr 24, 3:45 am, "Nancy Young" > wrote:

>> I know they started putting black boxes into cars, I imagine they
>> all have them at this point. I guess.

> Modern cars have computer controllers in place to keep emissions under
> control and to have the desired mix of performance and fuel
> efficiency. In order to do this, it keeps tab on engine conditions and
> vehicle speed. They're not black boxes in the sense of being a
> fortified data gathering device. They are actually the heart of the
> emission control system.
>
> As far as I know the boxes are proprietary systems belonging to the
> manufacturer and any data that may remain in the computers after a
> crash is not available to outside agencies.

FWIW, a quick google came up with this:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/64ukdlc

It touches on the subject.

nancy

On 2011-04-24, Nancy Young > wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:

>> As far as I know the boxes are proprietary systems belonging to the
>> manufacturer and any data that may remain in the computers after a
>> crash is not available to outside agencies.

> FWIW, a quick google came up with this:

> It touches on the subject.

There's a lot on the internet. Another scary fact is that issue dsil
touches on. What do you mean "belonging to the manufacturer"!? This
is the same crap MicroSloth is trying to pull, that after I buy a
computer or software, it's still belongs to the vendor and not me.
Horsecrap! You buy Levi's and L-S can tell you how to wear them?
If I spend $30K for a car, every damn nut and bolt in the sonuvabitch
is MINE! If not, I'm not buying it. If it does have info on me, it
should be MY info, not some nosey 3-rd party sumbitch.

Doesn't this intrusion worry you folks? Damn sure does me.

nb

On 4/24/2011 11:53 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On Apr 24, 3:45 am, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
>>> I know they started putting black boxes into cars, I imagine they
>>> all have them at this point. I guess.
>
>> Modern cars have computer controllers in place to keep emissions under
>> control and to have the desired mix of performance and fuel
>> efficiency. In order to do this, it keeps tab on engine conditions and
>> vehicle speed. They're not black boxes in the sense of being a
>> fortified data gathering device. They are actually the heart of the
>> emission control system.
>>
>> As far as I know the boxes are proprietary systems belonging to the
>> manufacturer and any data that may remain in the computers after a
>> crash is not available to outside agencies.
>
> FWIW, a quick google came up with this:
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/64ukdlc
> It touches on the subject.
>
> nancy

Thanks for the link. It was interesting. I would consider it to be the
air bag controller rather than a black box. If it's commonly used in
accident investigation, then you probably could consider it to be a
"black box."

My guess is that there are black box data recorders in many commercial
and public transportation vehicles and I think it's possible that we'll
be driving in cars in the future that have federally mandated recorders
that will track our every move. The insurance companies will probably be
pushing for this technology.

On 4/24/2011 11:29 AM, Andy wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> Computer star maps have been around for a while. This is different.
>> Google Sky can transpose the star map against the sky. It has to know
>> the azimuth and degree of tilt of the phone in addition to the GPS
>> info. It calculates this in real time. Somehow it knows the
>> orientation of the phone in space. As far as I know, I've never
>> calibrated the phone.
>
>
> Ever notice in the map app, if you tap the blue button (bottom left) the
> iPhone will orientate the map in whichever direction you're facing? You DO
> need to calibrate the compass to be accurate.
>
> Andy

I don't have Google Sky on my iPad, will check it out. On my Android
phone, the app is blue-buttonless.

On 4/24/2011 5:13 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Apr 24, 2:23 am, > wrote:
>> On 4/24/2011 12:00 AM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 4/23/2011 3:51 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>>> On 4/23/2011 9:57 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Yeah, all those apps doing whatever they want without you knowing,
>>>>>> who signed up for that. Installing data collecting or whatever it is
>>>>>> they do.
>>
>>>>> I have to turn on the location services when I use apps like Google
>>>>> Sky. It's a hassle but it's a super bitchin' app. Thanks Google!
>>
>>>> Some of the stuff looks like a lot of fun, that's for sure. And a lot
>>>> of the apps look really handy, too.
>>>> nancy
>>
>>> Google Sky will give you a star map on your display that's somehow
>>> coordinated to the night sky. It labels your view. Beats the heck out of
>>> me how it can do this.
>>
>> The visible night sky is well mapped and there have been apps around for
>> a long time. If you know your position on earth and the time of day you
>> can present the appropriate map showing what it is possible to see.
>> Pretty much the same as the way a GPS displays a map. It determines
>> where it is relative to a model of the earth and then gets the known
>> mapping info it has for that location and displays it.
>
> Computer star maps have been around for a while. This is different.
> Google Sky can transpose the star map against the sky. It has to know
> the azimuth and degree of tilt of the phone in addition to the GPS
> info. It calculates this in real time. Somehow it knows the
> orientation of the phone in space. As far as I know, I've never
> calibrated the phone.

It uses a solid state gyro to know its orientation/acceleration.