Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:

http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz

I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea bag
thingie? Suggestions?

Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
ok. Tips n' tricks welcome. It's snowin' outside so I may as well be
cookin' inside.

nb

On 1 May 2011 14:04:16 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
>non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>
>I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
>unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
>don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
>garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea bag
>thingie? Suggestions?
>
>Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
>ok. Tips n' tricks welcome. It's snowin' outside so I may as well be
>cookin' inside.
>
>nb
The metal tea bag thingy is perfect and is often used instead of
cheese cloth. Good Luck
Janet US

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>
> I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
> garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea bag
> thingie? Suggestions?
>
A metal tea strainer should work just fine to contain the ingredients for
the bouquet garni. Don't forget to add a few whole peppercorns.

Jill

On 2011-05-01, Janet > wrote:

> You don't need any muslin. The classic French way is just bunch the
> whole stems and bayleaf together (like a little bouquet) and tie them with
> clean thread so they stay together. If you leave a loop of extra thread

The "classic French way" has whole fresh or dried herbs, still on the
stem, lying around the kitchen. I do not. I have hole dried thyme
seeds, whole dried parsely flakes, whole dried bay leaf. The tea
strainer is SS, so won't be reactive with wine. Damn! Forgot to
salt/ppr the meat. I'll add while cooking.

It's in the pot and simmering for the long haul. I'm enjoying a
glass of Louis Jadot red Burgundy.

nb

On 2011-05-01, jmcquown > wrote:

> the bouquet garni. Don't forget to add a few whole peppercorns.

Ooh... good call! I got some, too. Thnx Jill.

nb

On May 1, 12:33*pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2011-05-01, jmcquown > wrote:
>
> > the bouquet garni. *Don't forget to add a few whole peppercorns.
>
> Ooh... good call! *I got some, too. *Thnx Jill.
>
> nb

Retard.

On May 1, 12:54*pm, Janet > wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>
>
> >>>Got the ingredients ...dried
> >>>unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley.
> >> *You don't need any muslin. *The classic French way *is just bunch the
> >> whole stems and bayleaf together (like a little bouquet) and tie them
> with
> >> clean thread so they stay together. If you leave a loop of extra thread
> >The "classic French way" has whole fresh or dried herbs, still on the
> >stem, lying around the kitchen. *I do not. *I have hole dried thyme
> >seeds, whole dried parsely flakes, whole dried bay leaf.
>
> * *OK. I was misled by your earlier description of them, above. They
> sounded whole.
>
> * *Thyme seeds?????????? Not leaves?

He's keyboard kooking.

On 2011-05-01, projectile vomit chick > wrote:

> Retard.

Hey! ....it's ol' puke girl. What's up, barf bitch? Wondered why I
hadn't seen you. Gone to gag groups, I see. No wonder that's why yer
seeing me, now, and no I'm longer seeing you.

BTW, I see Obama still hasn't done a single damn thing since he got in
office. At least ol' shrub could totally fsck up with some sorta
enthusiastic zeal. Ol'Bummer can't even screw up! He jes continues
to let everying progressively deteriorate while flappin' his gums and
saying and doing absolutely nothing. Kinda like you.

nb

On 2011-05-01, Omelet > wrote:

> A screen tea ball works great for boquet garni. Demi glaze, thats a bit
> more difficult. You can simmer a stock down to a very thick texture and
> probably get by with that. Canned broth might end up too salty.

I put in teaspoon of BTB. I think it'll be ok. Jes waiting for the
beef to cook. Been 4.5 hrs, so far.

nb

In article >, lid
says...
>
> Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>
> I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
> garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea bag
> thingie? Suggestions?
>
> Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
> ok. Tips n' tricks welcome. It's snowin' outside so I may as well be
> cookin' inside.
>
> nb

I wonder if a bunched up coffee filter will do the same thing?

On 5/1/2011 6:19 PM, T wrote:
> In >, lid
> says...
>>
>> Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
>> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>>
>> I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
>> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
>> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
>> garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea bag
>> thingie? Suggestions?
>>
>> Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
>> ok. Tips n' tricks welcome. It's snowin' outside so I may as well be
>> cookin' inside.
>
> I wonder if a bunched up coffee filter will do the same thing?

Now that's a good idea and suggestion!!! Dunno why what wouldn't work

Sky

--

Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!

On Sun, 1 May 2011 12:03:45 -0700 (PDT), projectile vomit chick
> wrote:

>On May 1, 12:54*pm, Janet > wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>Got the ingredients ...dried
>> >>>unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley.
>> >> *You don't need any muslin. *The classic French way *is just bunch the
>> >> whole stems and bayleaf together (like a little bouquet) and tie them
>> with
>> >> clean thread so they stay together. If you leave a loop of extra thread
>> >The "classic French way" has whole fresh or dried herbs, still on the
>> >stem, lying around the kitchen. *I do not. *I have hole dried thyme
>> >seeds, whole dried parsely flakes, whole dried bay leaf.
>>
>> * *OK. I was misled by your earlier description of them, above. They
>> sounded whole.
>>
>> * *Thyme seeds?????????? Not leaves?
>
>He's keyboard kooking.

Any one ever use bay leaf "powder"???

"Sky" > wrote in message
...
> On 5/1/2011 6:19 PM, T wrote:
>> In >, lid
>> says...
>>>
>>> Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
>>> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>>>
>>> I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
>>> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
>>> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
>>> garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea bag
>>> thingie? Suggestions?
>>>
(snippage)

>> I wonder if a bunched up coffee filter will do the same thing?
>
> Now that's a good idea and suggestion!!! Dunno why what wouldn't work
>
> Sky
>
It should work for a bouquet garni, if you tie it off with a kitchen string.

Jill

On May 1, 7:43*pm, Sky > wrote:
> On 5/1/2011 6:19 PM, T wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In >,
> > says...
>
> >> Gonna make it today. *Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
> >> non-hair long enough. *Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>
> >> I have everything but the boquet garni. *Got the ingredients ...dried
> >> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. *What I
> >> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
> >> garni in stew, and still have it contained. *Howzabout a metal tea bag
> >> thingie? *Suggestions?
>
> >> Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
> >> ok. *Tips n' tricks welcome. *It's snowin' outside so I may as well be
> >> cookin' inside. *
>
> > I wonder if a bunched up coffee filter will do the same thing?
>
> Now that's a good idea and suggestion!!! *Dunno why what wouldn't work
>
> Sky

Because it doesn't allow free circulation. Cheesecloth is available at
most supermarkets, but you need to look for it.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On 2011-05-01, T > wrote:

> I wonder if a bunched up coffee filter will do the same thing?

The metal tea thingie worked jes fine, thanks.

UPDATE:

The whole thing tastes awesome, but the meat is still not tender
enough. This after almost 7 hrs of simmering!!

This altitude is killing me. I don't want use my pressure cooker
unless I have to, but the 197F boiling point is a problem. I think
I'm close, but we'll see. Next time I'll use my pressure cooker and
note the difference in taste. Now, I'm jes gonna go with simmering
till fork tender. Maybe another 1/2 hr.

I'll keep ya posted.

nb

On May 1, 9:04*am, notbob > wrote:
> Gonna make it today. *Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
> non-hair long enough. *Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>
> I have everything but the boquet garni. *Got the ingredients ...dried
> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. *What I
> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
> garni in stew, and still have it contained. *Howzabout a metal tea bag
> thingie? *Suggestions? *
>
> Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
> ok. *Tips n' tricks welcome. *It's snowin' outside so I may as well be
> cookin' inside. *

Personally, I'd rather have a concentrated beef stock reduction to an
actual demi-glace anyway.
>
> nb *

--Bryan

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2011-05-01, T > wrote:
>
> > I wonder if a bunched up coffee filter will do the same thing?
>
> The metal tea thingie worked jes fine, thanks.
>
> UPDATE:
>
> The whole thing tastes awesome, but the meat is still not tender
> enough. This after almost 7 hrs of simmering!!
>
> This altitude is killing me. I don't want use my pressure cooker
> unless I have to, but the 197F boiling point is a problem.

I don't think that's "the problem". If you check, you'll find out that
all the pertinent "tough" components of beef dissolve at considerably
lower temperatures than that.

Isaac

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>
> I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
> garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea bag
> thingie? Suggestions?
>
> Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
> ok. Tips n' tricks welcome. It's snowin' outside so I may as well be
> cookin' inside.
>
> nb
>
>
Boeuf Bourguignon is one of the great dishes of the world.
A true Boeuf Bourguignon must have salt pork, cut up, and blanched to
decrease the salt. That salt pork fat is used to brown the meat. The onions
should be finely minced, and floured while you're browning them. This
creates sort of an "onion roux" Then you add your stock and wine to thicken,
and add your browned meat. Always, always, always, use beef chuck, or
shoulder. It has the flavor and it doesn't dry out when subjected to a long
braise. Don't, don't, add genuine French Burgundy, or even California pinot
noir. It's too expensive, and you don't need it to make a great dish. Any
fruity wine will serve well. I last used a "two buck Chuck" merlot[horrors]
and it was just great. For the beef stock component I use better than
boullion in general. If you get a bone in chuck you can embellish the stock
flavor by browning the bones, and simmering that in the stock. If you do
that, do it before, and render the fat. You don't need a true demi glace.
Save that for tournedoes Rossini.

Kent




Cheers,

Kent

On 2011-05-01, notbob > wrote:

> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:

I'd hafta say it was a success and yet a failure at the same time.
While the flavor is exquisite, the meat was just too damn tuff. I
used some top round I got on sale. It was cut in large sheets like
split latigo leather. It was jes about as tough, too. I simmered this
stew for at least 7 hrs and even though the meat literally fell apart,
it remained jes a bit too chewy for my liking. I'll use a
cut like chuck, next time.

Overall, I'm happy with the experience, but less than thrilled with
the outcome. Next time I'll try a few tweaks and better meat, but I
heartily recommend the dish. Definitely worth the effort. Brain dead
easy and tastes great.

enjoy =D
nb

On 2011-05-02, Kent > wrote:

> and add your browned meat. Always, always, always, use beef chuck, or
> shoulder.

At least don't use top round. Too damn lean and tough.

> Don't, don't, add genuine French Burgundy....

That's exactly what I used, as I had some. Worked jes fine.

> and it was just great. For the beef stock component I use better than
> boullion in general.

I used BTB, also. Seemed to work jes fine.

The end flavor of my effort was excellent, but I missed a couple steps
like the flour roux, so added a light flour slurry. Worked ok. Next
time I'll try some of your tips plus what I've learned. Definitely a
great dish. Thanks for the advice.

nb

On 2 May 2011 01:34:09 GMT in rec.food.cooking, notbob
> wrote,
>This altitude is killing me. I don't want use my pressure cooker
>unless I have to, but the 197F boiling point is a problem.

I probably missed where you said where you are, but 197F would put
you at around 8000 feet elevation. I'd be using the pressure cooker
every day, I think.

>Next time I'll use my pressure cooker and note the difference in taste.

If you use the pressure cooker to raise the boiling point back up to
212, why would the taste be any different than cooking at sea level?

On 2011-05-02, David Harmon > wrote:

> I probably missed where you said where you are, but 197F would put
> you at around 8000 feet elevation.

Dead on.

> I'd be using the pressure cooker every day, I think.

Not necessary for everthing.

> If you use the pressure cooker to raise the boiling point back up to
> 212, why would the taste be any different than cooking at sea level?

I reckon I'll know when I try it. Until then, I don't assume it's the
solution to everything. I've already discovered I don't like dry
beans pressure cooked. Not sure why, as canned beans are pressure
cooked. Depends on the bean and the desired dish.

nb

Kent wrote:
> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Gonna make it today. Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
>> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>>
>> I have everything but the boquet garni. Got the ingredients ...dried
>> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. What I
>> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
>> garni in stew, and still have it contained. Howzabout a metal tea
>> bag thingie? Suggestions?
>>
>> Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
>> ok. Tips n' tricks welcome. It's snowin' outside so I may as well
>> be cookin' inside.
>>
>> nb
>>
>>
> Boeuf Bourguignon is one of the great dishes of the world.
> A true Boeuf Bourguignon must have salt pork, cut up, and blanched to
> decrease the salt. That salt pork fat is used to brown the meat. The
> onions should be finely minced, and floured while you're browning
> them. This creates sort of an "onion roux" Then you add your stock
> and wine to thicken, and add your browned meat. Always, always,
> always, use beef chuck, or shoulder. It has the flavor and it doesn't
> dry out when subjected to a long braise. Don't, don't, add genuine
> French Burgundy, or even California pinot noir. It's too expensive,
> and you don't need it to make a great dish. Any fruity wine will
> serve well. I last used a "two buck Chuck" merlot[horrors] and it was
> just great. For the beef stock component I use better than boullion
> in general. If you get a bone in chuck you can embellish the stock
> flavor by browning the bones, and simmering that in the stock. If you
> do that, do it before, and render the fat. You don't need a true demi
> glace. Save that for tournedoes Rossini.
> Kent
>
I'd use Julia Child's recipe for bouef bourguinon, including the braised
onions and sauteed mushrooms. It is divine. (And it does include salt pork.
)

Tournedos Rossini! Haven't made that in a long time. Food of the gods...
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kent

On 1 May 2011 14:04:16 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> Howzabout a metal tea bag thingie?

That's perfect. No need to hunt for cheesecloth when you have one of
those.


--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On May 2, 9:57*am, "Janet" > wrote:
> Kent wrote:
> > "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Gonna make it today. *Maybe a pie, too, if I can keep mom outta my
> >> non-hair long enough. *Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/3b8nsvz
>
> >> I have everything but the boquet garni. *Got the ingredients ...dried
> >> unground thyme, bay leaf, and both dried and fresh parsley. *What I
> >> don't have is cheese cloth or any other thing I can think of to put
> >> garni in stew, and still have it contained. *Howzabout a metal tea
> >> bag thingie? *Suggestions?
>
> >> Also don't have any demi-glaze, but imagine some beef stock will work
> >> ok. *Tips n' tricks welcome. *It's snowin' outside so I may as well
> >> be cookin' inside. *
>
> >> nb
>
> > Boeuf Bourguignon is one of the great dishes of the world.
> > A true Boeuf Bourguignon must have salt pork, cut up, and blanched to
> > decrease the salt. That salt pork fat is used to brown the meat. The
> > onions should be finely minced, and floured while you're browning
> > them. This creates sort of an "onion roux" Then you add your stock
> > and wine to thicken, and add your browned meat. Always, always,
> > always, use beef chuck, or shoulder. It has the flavor and it doesn't
> > dry out when subjected to a long braise. Don't, don't, add genuine
> > French Burgundy, or even California pinot noir. It's too expensive,
> > and you don't need it to make a great dish. Any fruity wine will
> > serve well. I last used a "two buck Chuck" merlot[horrors] and it was
> > just great. For the beef stock component I use better than boullion
> > in general. If you get a bone in chuck you can embellish the stock
> > flavor by browning the bones, and simmering that in the stock. If you
> > do that, do it before, and render the fat. You don't need a true demi
> > glace. Save that for tournedoes Rossini.
> > Kent
>
> I'd use Julia Child's recipe for bouef bourguinon, including the braised
> onions and sauteed mushrooms. It is divine. *(And it does include salt pork.
> )
>
> Tournedos Rossini! *Haven't made that in a long time. Food of the gods....
>
>
>
>
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Kent- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I actually made Julia's Boef for Easter. I did it all - dried the
beef, didn't crowd things, boiled the bacon (she actually calls for
bacon rather than salt pork), sauteed mushrooms, made the brown
onions. It turned out great.

The only thing I wonder about was her direction to "crumble a bay
leaf" into it. I kept finding the pieces as I ate. Next time, I'll
just throw in a whole bay leaf - they are easy enough to find when
whole.

Susan B.

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-05-02, Kent > wrote:
>
>> and add your browned meat. Always, always, always, use beef chuck, or
>> shoulder.
>
> At least don't use top round. Too damn lean and tough.
>
>> Don't, don't, add genuine French Burgundy....
>
> That's exactly what I used, as I had some. Worked jes fine.
>
>> and it was just great. For the beef stock component I use better than
>> boullion in general.
>
> I used BTB, also. Seemed to work jes fine.
>
> The end flavor of my effort was excellent, but I missed a couple steps
> like the flour roux, so added a light flour slurry. Worked ok. Next
> time I'll try some of your tips plus what I've learned. Definitely a
> great dish. Thanks for the advice.
>
> nb
>
>
There isn't any problem using pinot noir, either French or American. Pinot
noir is so subtle in taste it just shouldn't be mixed into a braise. It gets
lost. I use a fruity red wine. American Zinfandel is excellent. I've also
used shiraz with success. Both are a bit more assertive than pinot noir.

It's largely the expense. Any decent pinot noir is fairly pricey. I think
the most expensive wine in the world is Romanee-Conti. Get a load of this!
http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/de...007/france/-/r

Kent

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-05-01, notbob > wrote:
>
>> non-hair long enough. Using A Bourdain's Les Halles recipe:
>
> I'd hafta say it was a success and yet a failure at the same time.
> While the flavor is exquisite, the meat was just too damn tuff. I
> used some top round I got on sale. It was cut in large sheets like
> split latigo leather. It was jes about as tough, too. I simmered this
> stew for at least 7 hrs and even though the meat literally fell apart,
> it remained jes a bit too chewy for my liking. I'll use a
> cut like chuck, next time.
>
> Overall, I'm happy with the experience, but less than thrilled with
> the outcome. Next time I'll try a few tweaks and better meat, but I
> heartily recommend the dish. Definitely worth the effort. Brain dead
> easy and tastes great.
>
> enjoy =D
> nb
>
>
You know, when the French braise bottom round, they lard it whole with
strips of pork fat with a larding needle[Boeuf a la Mode]. You can also lard
with strips of bacon fat; the flavor is a bit more assertive. I've done this
once or twice. We always go back to shoulder meat. When we buy beef chuck,
we buy a whole piece with or without the bone and cut that into 2" pieces.
When our market sells pieces of chuck on sale, they're too lean and
invariably too small.

Cheers,
Kent

On 2011-05-03, Kent > wrote:

> There isn't any problem using pinot noir, either French or American. Pinot
> noir is so subtle....

I'm not gonna get into a wine ****ing contest, but I've had monster
pinot noirs, much richer and flavorful than any merlot. Merlot used
to be a crap wine used to mix with and mellow raw cabs, but the ladies
loved it, so it became popular in its own right. I used to buy
Marilyn Merlot 2/$7. Sold my oldest two bottles for $300. Wine ppl
are idiots.

> lost. I use a fruity red wine. American Zinfandel.....

What's an "American Zinfandel"? Until recently, zinfandel was thought to be
CA's only true native grape. Is zin being grown outside of the US, lately?
I'm behind the times.

> used shiraz with success. Both are a bit more assertive than pinot noir.

Again, you've obviously not had any great CA pinot noirs.

> It's largely the expense. Any decent pinot noir is fairly pricey.

Like merlot, it became undeservedly trendy and pricey. I think the
harder the wine is to correctly pronounce, the higher the price.

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-05-03, Kent > wrote:
>
>> There isn't any problem using pinot noir, either French or American.
>> Pinot
>> noir is so subtle....
>
> I'm not gonna get into a wine ****ing contest, but I've had monster
> pinot noirs, much richer and flavorful than any merlot. Merlot used
> to be a crap wine used to mix with and mellow raw cabs, but the ladies
> loved it, so it became popular in its own right. I used to buy
> Marilyn Merlot 2/$7. Sold my oldest two bottles for $300. Wine ppl
> are idiots.
>
>> lost. I use a fruity red wine. American Zinfandel.....
>
> What's an "American Zinfandel"? Until recently, zinfandel was thought to
> be
> CA's only true native grape. Is zin being grown outside of the US,
> lately?
> I'm behind the times.
>
>> used shiraz with success. Both are a bit more assertive than pinot noir.
>
> Again, you've obviously not had any great CA pinot noirs.
>
>> It's largely the expense. Any decent pinot noir is fairly pricey.
>
> Like merlot, it became undeservedly trendy and pricey. I think the
> harder the wine is to correctly pronounce, the higher the price.
>
> nb
>
>
I'm not peeing at all. I just think that for the money I have to spend on a
rich pinot noir I want it in the glass. I'm always looking for a young
fruity non woody red for braised beef. I forgot about Zin and Cal. We've
been in N. Cal. for many years. Senescence reigns. I think most of the
Northern Cal. wine country is too warm for pinot noir. There are exceptions
like carnaros. Here's an example you may well know about specializes in
pinot noir. http://www.elkhornpeakcellars.com/

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>
> "notbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2011-05-03, Kent > wrote:
>>
>>> There isn't any problem using pinot noir, either French or American.
>>> Pinot
>>> noir is so subtle....
>>
>> I'm not gonna get into a wine ****ing contest, but I've had monster
>> pinot noirs, much richer and flavorful than any merlot. Merlot used
>> to be a crap wine used to mix with and mellow raw cabs, but the ladies
>> loved it, so it became popular in its own right. I used to buy
>> Marilyn Merlot 2/$7. Sold my oldest two bottles for $300. Wine ppl
>> are idiots.
>>
>>> lost. I use a fruity red wine. American Zinfandel.....
>>
>> What's an "American Zinfandel"? Until recently, zinfandel was thought to
>> be
>> CA's only true native grape. Is zin being grown outside of the US,
>> lately?
>> I'm behind the times.
>>
>>> used shiraz with success. Both are a bit more assertive than pinot noir.
>>
>> Again, you've obviously not had any great CA pinot noirs.
>>
>>> It's largely the expense. Any decent pinot noir is fairly pricey.
>>
>> Like merlot, it became undeservedly trendy and pricey. I think the
>> harder the wine is to correctly pronounce, the higher the price.
>>
>> nb
>>
>>
> I'm not peeing at all. I just think that for the money I have to spend on
> a rich pinot noir I want it in the glass. I'm always looking for a young
> fruity non woody red for braised beef. I forgot about Zin and Cal. We've
> been in N. Cal. for many years. Senescence reigns. I think most of the
> Northern Cal. wine country is too warm for pinot noir. There are
> exceptions like carnaros. Here's an example you may well know about
> specializes in pinot noir. http://www.elkhornpeakcellars.com/
>
> Kent
>
I meant Napa valley in general, not all of N. Cal., like the Pinnacles, or
the Russian River or others.

Cheers,
Kent,
where's my Chalone?