James Silverton wrote:
>

<snippage>

> >>> I don't pay anything beyond that noted $1.39/yr or so that comes from
> >>> our federal taxes. If I wanted, I could contribute whatever amount I
> >>> wanted to my local stations, and a $60/yr donation will typically get
> >>> you a "free" coffee mug thank you gift. I don't watch TV at all really,
> >>> beyond the occasional big news event. I do listen to NPR radio in my
> >>> truck when I'm going somewhere, but since I don't commute for work, that
> >>> isn't very frequent either.
> >>
> >> People here who don't have a TV, don't pay for a license. They still
> >> get free radio.
> >
> > I get both TV and radio free including the PBS and NPR stations and the
> > various commercial ones. I just choose not to waste my time watching TV,
> > I prefer to actually work on projects and accomplish something.
>
> One assumes that you don't have fiber optical or other cable for TV and
> Internet. That would hardly be free.

I get TV over the air i.e. broadcast, however I choose not to waste my
time watching it. Internet is irrelevant, since they don't get free
Internet in the UK either. In my case, my Internet is free to me since
it's paid for by my employer.

Janet wrote:
>
> In article . com>,
> says...
> >
> > Janet wrote:
> > >
> > > In article . com>,
> > > says...
> > > >
> > > > Janet wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > <sigh> In Britain, local services (like rubbish disposal) are organised
> > > > > > > > > by (very) local elected councils and paid for by local taxation direct to
> > > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Indeed, much as it is in the US city that I am outside the limits of. I
> > > > > > > > don't pay their taxes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You have no clue what my local taxes are,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Only that they are far more than I pay.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I wouldn't know; I don't know what you pay.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as state / local taxes go, $2,431.92 property tax which is
> > > > > > primarily for the local schools.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does that include garbage disposal?
> > > > >
> > > > > My local property tax is less than $3000 US dollars.
> > > >
> > > > For what size / type property? I've got 4 acres here with a 2,000 sf
> > > > house and 1,200 sf separate shop building, nice sides pond, etc.
> > > >
> > > > > That provides
> > > > > unlimited water, garbage disposal,
> > > >
> > > > Water and garbage are separate private services here. The water is a
> > > > co-op and provides much better water quality than that in the city. For
> > > > the garbage collection I have a choice of several different competitive
> > > > private companies to choose from. The two add up to around $500/year,
> > > > and of course I am in control of that and can change / adjust whatever I
> > > > want.
> > >
> > > So, add that to your property tax, and you and I pay virtually the same.
> > > Tax banding here is linked to property value and mine is one below the
> > > top. If I lived in a bottom band property I'd pay about one third the tax
> > > for exactly the same services.
> >
> > So what exactly do you have for property? We don't pay the same if we
> > have significantly different properties.
>
> Eh? The figure is the same.

The figure may be the same, but if the properties are quite dissimilar
we are not paying the same.

>
> > > > > dozens of other local services I use frequently such as superb library
> > > > > services
> > > >
> > > > Libraries, like newspapers are rapidly becoming obsolete in the Internet
> > > > age. A great deal of what you might get from a library can be found for
> > > > free on the 'net,
> > >
> > > That might be true if our libraries here only lent books, but their
> > > services are wider than that.
> >
> > Such as?
>
> Music/films games, a free internet service, access to stock in all
> Scottish libraries and an enormous national history archive of documents
> and photographs,a huge range of teaching and researh material for schools
> and adults,a genealogy search service. Reading and literry-activity groups
> (for all ages).

Same for pretty much all libraries in the US.

>
> > >
> > > Yep, stuff like "who sprayed a rude word on the car park wall". The
> > > fearless investigators solved that crime about 20 mins later by going to
> > > the nearby hardware shop and asking the owner who had just bought a can of
> > > dayglo pink paint.
> >
> > What, they didn't catch the whole thing on one of those big brother spy
> > cams?
>
> Sorry to disappoint but we only have two spy cams here. One is in an
> bird's nest and the other is trained on the ferry harbour and fed to the
> internet for tourists

Lucky you. Many of your fellow subjects aren't so lucky.

> > > Mine was in a city.
> >
> > When you have 4 acres of land, you don't need a community garden.
>
> I know :-) My last property had four acres.

My other property has 65+.

Janet wrote:
>
> In article . com>,
> says...
> >
> > James Silverton wrote:
> > >
> >
> > <snippage>
> >
> > > >>> I don't pay anything beyond that noted $1.39/yr or so that comes from
> > > >>> our federal taxes. If I wanted, I could contribute whatever amount I
> > > >>> wanted to my local stations, and a $60/yr donation will typically get
> > > >>> you a "free" coffee mug thank you gift. I don't watch TV at all really,
> > > >>> beyond the occasional big news event. I do listen to NPR radio in my
> > > >>> truck when I'm going somewhere, but since I don't commute for work, that
> > > >>> isn't very frequent either.
> > > >>
> > > >> People here who don't have a TV, don't pay for a license. They still
> > > >> get free radio.
> > > >
> > > > I get both TV and radio free including the PBS and NPR stations and the
> > > > various commercial ones. I just choose not to waste my time watching TV,
> > > > I prefer to actually work on projects and accomplish something.
> > >
> > > One assumes that you don't have fiber optical or other cable for TV and
> > > Internet. That would hardly be free.
> >
> > I get TV over the air i.e. broadcast, however I choose not to waste my
> > time watching it. Internet is irrelevant, since they don't get free
> > Internet in the UK either.
>
> I hate to tell you, but here in the nanny state anyone can use the
> public internet services in librarie.... free.

Same at pretty much any US library. Free WiFi also exists at numerous
other US locations, including city parks and whatnot.

On Jun 14, 9:28*am, James Silverton >
wrote:
> The British are contemplating garbage collection every two weeks to
> encourage recycling, according to the Telegraph:http://tinyurl.com/3u7uaa4
>
> I thought I was a card-carrying liberal (ACLU and Democrat) but I am
> thankful that, even if it is expensive, we contract individually in my
> neighborhood with garbage companies. I do recycle but my garbage is
> collected twice a week. What it would smell like after two weeks I don't
> want to imagine.

Well if all you wonderful liberals get your way we won't have any
garbage service at all. I refuse to recycle.

On Jun 14, 1:33*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:28:01 -0400, James Silverton
>
> > wrote:
> > The British are contemplating garbage collection every two weeks to
> > encourage recycling, according to the Telegraph:
> >http://tinyurl.com/3u7uaa4
>
> > I thought I was a card-carrying liberal (ACLU and Democrat) but I am
> > thankful that, even if it is expensive, we contract individually in my
> > neighborhood with garbage companies. I do recycle but my garbage is
> > collected twice a week. What it would smell like after two weeks I don't
> > want to imagine.
>
> Individually contract with the garbage company.... so you have to
> listen to the garbage truck *how* many times a week? *2-3-daily? *No
> way! *Once a week is more than enough noise for me.

What language do you read? It's obviously not English.

projectile vomit chick wrote:
> On Jun 14, 1:33 pm, sf > wrote:

>> Individually contract with the garbage company.... so you have to
>> listen to the garbage truck *how* many times a week? 2-3-daily? No
>> way! Once a week is more than enough noise for me.
>
> What language do you read? It's obviously not English.

I don't know, someone else here said they have different trash haulers
on their block, each homeowner picked their own company. Maybe
I misunderstood. To me it sounded like there would be garbage trucks
going by all the time and every day, someone would have their cans in
the street.

Googling around, I guess there are neighborhoods like that.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> I don't know, someone else here said they have different trash haulers
> on their block, each homeowner picked their own company. Maybe
> I misunderstood. To me it sounded like there would be garbage trucks
> going by all the time and every day, someone would have their cans in
> the street.
> Googling around, I guess there are neighborhoods like that.
> nancy

We have different haulers, but everyone seems to use just one or two
companies within a neighborhood. The companies seem to try to coordinate
the pick up days, but some folks subscribe to once a week, others twice
a week.

Goomba wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> I don't know, someone else here said they have different trash
>> haulers on their block, each homeowner picked their own company.
>> Maybe
>> I misunderstood. To me it sounded like there would be garbage trucks
>> going by all the time and every day, someone would have their cans in
>> the street.
>> Googling around, I guess there are neighborhoods like that.

> We have different haulers, but everyone seems to use just one or two
> companies within a neighborhood.

I would think it would be a good thing to coordinate, but you know there
would be that one contrarian who wouldn't go along with the neighborhood
choice of trash hauler.

> The companies seem to try to
> coordinate the pick up days, but some folks subscribe to once a week,
> others twice a week.

That's cool, and it makes sense. On the face of it, it sounds like a mess,
but if they all come around on the same day, it works for me. Heh.

For the time being, my town picks up trash in my section of town, the
rest of the town has some other hauler they pay directly. But just one
in each area, not all different companies.

nancy

On 6/16/2011 8:26 AM, Goomba wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> I don't know, someone else here said they have different trash haulers
>> on their block, each homeowner picked their own company. Maybe
>> I misunderstood. To me it sounded like there would be garbage trucks
>> going by all the time and every day, someone would have their cans in
>> the street. Googling around, I guess there are neighborhoods like
>> that. nancy
>
> We have different haulers, but everyone seems to use just one or two
> companies within a neighborhood. The companies seem to try to coordinate
> the pick up days, but some folks subscribe to once a week, others twice
> a week.

We have several privately contracted garbage companies working in my
neighbor hood but they work amazingly fast and usually are finished by 8
AM. As a morning walker, the main difference in quality that I notice is
that some companies wash their trucks and some stink to high heaven!

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:32:11 -0700 (PDT), projectile vomit chick wrote:

> On Jun 14, 9:28*am, James Silverton >
> wrote:
>> The British are contemplating garbage collection every two weeks to
>> encourage recycling, according to the Telegraph:http://tinyurl.com/3u7uaa4
>>
>> I thought I was a card-carrying liberal (ACLU and Democrat) but I am
>> thankful that, even if it is expensive, we contract individually in my
>> neighborhood with garbage companies. I do recycle but my garbage is
>> collected twice a week. What it would smell like after two weeks I don't
>> want to imagine.
>
> Well if all you wonderful liberals get your way we won't have any
> garbage service at all. I refuse to recycle.

that'll teach 'em!

blake

"Nancy Young" > wrote
> I don't know, someone else here said they have different trash haulers
> on their block, each homeowner picked their own company. Maybe
> I misunderstood. To me it sounded like there would be garbage trucks
> going by all the time and every day, someone would have their cans in
> the street.
> Googling around, I guess there are neighborhoods like that.
> nancy

When we moved here 30 years ago, our hauler walked to the back of the garage
to get the trash and then put the cans back. $5 a month.
Now we pay by the bag ($1 small, $2 large) and it has to be by the curb.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>> I don't know, someone else here said they have different trash
>> haulers on their block, each homeowner picked their own company. Maybe I
>> misunderstood. To me it sounded like there would be garbage trucks
>> going by all the time and every day, someone would have their cans in
>> the street.
>> Googling around, I guess there are neighborhoods like that.

> When we moved here 30 years ago, our hauler walked to the back of the
> garage to get the trash and then put the cans back.

My ex inlaws had that service in a their town. I was impressed.

> $5 a month.
> Now we pay by the bag ($1 small, $2 large) and it has to be by the
> curb.

Hard to think how they keep track of how much you put out, carry around
a checklist? I pay a flat fee in my taxes, it covers twice a week trash
(however
many bags/whatever), twice a month recycling and twice a month bulk pickup.
It's probably a couple hundred dollars a year, maybe a little more. I
consider
it a nominal fee.

nancy

"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> When we moved here 30 years ago, our hauler walked to the back of the
> garage to get the trash and then put the cans back. $5 a month.
> Now we pay by the bag ($1 small, $2 large) and it has to be by the curb.

We have to walk to a closed dumpster 1/3 km away. If you have to walk 1/2
km or more, they charge you less.

On Jun 16, 8:54*pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:

> Hard to think how they keep track of how much you put out, carry around
> a checklist? *I pay a flat fee in my taxes, it covers twice a week trash
> (however
> many bags/whatever), twice a month recycling and twice a month bulk pickup.
> It's probably a couple hundred dollars a year, maybe a little more. *I
> consider
> it a nominal fee.
>


We have a weekly pickup for trash and the price is based on the size
container (which is owned by the company). The truck has a special
attachment that lifts the can and dumps it into the truck. We just
have to make sure it is at the curb and faced the correct direction.
Another truck comes every other week to pick up the recycle. Everybody
automatically gets the largest size can for recycle.

"Nancy Young" > wrote


>> Now we pay by the bag ($1 small, $2 large) and it has to be by the
>> curb.
>
> Hard to think how they keep track of how much you put out, carry around
> a checklist? I pay a flat fee in my taxes, it covers twice a week trash


You buy sticker. Green for small bags, orange for large. No sticker? The
bag won't be picked up. A tire takes 4 stickers, Small TV is two, large
four, etc.

I take the trash to work and put it in the dumpster. It does not cost the
company any extra as we pay a flat rate.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 06:07:15 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:

>
>"Nancy Young" > wrote
>
>
>>> Now we pay by the bag ($1 small, $2 large) and it has to be by the
>>> curb.
>>
>> Hard to think how they keep track of how much you put out, carry around
>> a checklist? I pay a flat fee in my taxes, it covers twice a week trash
>
>
>You buy sticker. Green for small bags, orange for large. No sticker? The
>bag won't be picked up. A tire takes 4 stickers, Small TV is two, large
>four, etc.
>
>I take the trash to work and put it in the dumpster. It does not cost the
>company any extra as we pay a flat rate.

then there are the people that cruise the backs of shopping centers
and businesses who dump there trash on/in/or near dumpsters.
Janet US

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>>> Now we pay by the bag ($1 small, $2 large) and it has to be by the
>>> curb.
>>
>> Hard to think how they keep track of how much you put out, carry
>> around a checklist? I pay a flat fee in my taxes, it covers twice a
>> week trash
>
>
> You buy sticker. Green for small bags, orange for large. No sticker?
> The bag won't be picked up. A tire takes 4 stickers, Small TV is
> two, large four, etc.

Ingenious! Of course. Because that checklist didn't sound like a plan
to me.

> I take the trash to work and put it in the dumpster. It does not
> cost the company any extra as we pay a flat rate.

You don't want to forget that garbage in your trunk, that can lead
to all kinds of trouble. Hee.

nancy

wrote:
> On Jun 16, 8:54 pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
>> Hard to think how they keep track of how much you put out, carry
>> around
>> a checklist? I pay a flat fee in my taxes, it covers twice a week
>> trash (however
>> many bags/whatever), twice a month recycling and twice a month bulk
>> pickup. It's probably a couple hundred dollars a year, maybe a
>> little more. I consider it a nominal fee.

> We have a weekly pickup for trash and the price is based on the size
> container (which is owned by the company). The truck has a special
> attachment that lifts the can and dumps it into the truck. We just
> have to make sure it is at the curb and faced the correct direction.

Most of my town has that type of pickup with private haulers. You
see they all have that big can that the truck picks up.

> Another truck comes every other week to pick up the recycle. Everybody
> automatically gets the largest size can for recycle.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you have to recycle where you
live? What would go in that can, in other words.

nancy

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 06:55:06 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 06:07:15 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Nancy Young" > wrote
>>
>>
>>>> Now we pay by the bag ($1 small, $2 large) and it has to be by the
>>>> curb.
>>>
>>> Hard to think how they keep track of how much you put out, carry around
>>> a checklist? I pay a flat fee in my taxes, it covers twice a week trash
>>
>>
>>You buy sticker. Green for small bags, orange for large. No sticker? The
>>bag won't be picked up. A tire takes 4 stickers, Small TV is two, large
>>four, etc.
>>
>>I take the trash to work and put it in the dumpster. It does not cost the
>>company any extra as we pay a flat rate.
>
>then there are the people that cruise the backs of shopping centers
>and businesses who dump there trash on/in/or near dumpsters.

That's theft of services, even if where one works, especially if where
one works... imagine if all employees did that, more dumpsters would
be required and the trash company would need to raise their rate.
Where I worked bringing ones personal trash from home and placing it
in the dumpsters was grounds for immediate dismissal, it was
considered the same as stealing product.

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote
> That's theft of services, even if where one works, especially if where
> one works... imagine if all employees did that, more dumpsters would
> be required and the trash company would need to raise their rate.
> Where I worked bringing ones personal trash from home and placing it
> in the dumpsters was grounds for immediate dismissal, it was
> considered the same as stealing product.

In general, I'd agree with you, but this is a different situation. Where I
work, I make the rules and I allow employees to use the dumpster; about
four of us do. The company pays a flat rate. If there is one bag or if it
is jammed full, we pay the same rate for weekly pickup. Since the company
is not filling it, I allow employees to use it for personal trash.
Surprisingly, the trash company has not raised our rates for at least three
years.

To use a private dumpster is illegal, but this is an exception.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:54:59 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:

-snip-
>Surprisingly, the trash company has not raised our rates for at least three
>years.
>

Weird. I got 3 yards of #2 crushed stone delivered this morning. To
the penny, the same price I paid 3 years ago. I remember the
conversation then-- "I'm sorry we've had to raise our delivery charge
because fuel is so high."

Jim

On 6/17/2011 4:08 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>> You don't want to forget that garbage in your trunk, that can lead
>> to all kinds of trouble. Hee.
>> nancy
>
> I did once. Got a reminder when I opened the car door.

Me, I'll never forget what a bad idea it is to leave crab dip
from the office party in the trunk.

nancy

On Jun 17, 7:02*am, "Nancy Young" > wrote:

>
> If you don't mind me asking, what do you have to recycle where you
> live? *What would go in that can, in other words.
>

Many different plastic bottles such as pop, juice, milk, laundry
detergent, etc. Newspaper, catalogs, magazines. Food boxes such as
those for cereal, boxed pasta, frozen food, etc. Aluminum cans, scrap
metal, cardboard, and glass bottles. It can all go in together, so we
don't have to sort it into bins.Just load it all in the big bin.

They've expanded it to a lot more, so now it is much easier to recycle
a lot of things.

At work, we have a different program. All clean and dry plastic is
saved, even some things not on the list for the pickup service at
home. We also compost a LOT of stuff. And of course the cardboard.
Unfortunately, we do not have anything yet for aluminum or glass at
work. I wish we did.

On 6/18/2011 5:22 AM, wrote:
> On Jun 17, 7:02 am, "Nancy > wrote:

>> If you don't mind me asking, what do you have to recycle where you
>> live? What would go in that can, in other words.

> Many different plastic bottles such as pop, juice, milk, laundry
> detergent, etc. Newspaper, catalogs, magazines. Food boxes such as
> those for cereal, boxed pasta, frozen food, etc. Aluminum cans, scrap
> metal, cardboard, and glass bottles. It can all go in together, so we
> don't have to sort it into bins.Just load it all in the big bin.

Gotcha. I have to recycle much of the same stuff, but they pick up
cans and bottles on one day, and another day of the month it's
newspaper/cardboard/mixed paper. I think they still want you to
tie the newspaper into bundles.

Sorry for the late reply, I got a new computer and I downloaded
Thunderbird and I'm still getting used to it. I would like it to
download posts as they are made rather than threading it all for
me, if anyone can help me out with that, I'd appreciate it. For
now I'm missing posts in the forest of threads.

> They've expanded it to a lot more, so now it is much easier to recycle
> a lot of things.

It has been about a year now that cardboard and mixed paper recycling
became mandatory, and I see that many of my neighbors still don't get
it.

> At work, we have a different program. All clean and dry plastic is
> saved, even some things not on the list for the pickup service at
> home. We also compost a LOT of stuff. And of course the cardboard.
> Unfortunately, we do not have anything yet for aluminum or glass at
> work. I wish we did.

I'm surprised they aren't required to. Anyway, I find the subject
interesting, thanks for the info.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> On 6/18/2011 5:22 AM, friesian wrote:
>
>> On Jun 17, 7:02 am, "Nancy Young" wrote:
>
>
>>> If you don't mind me asking, what do you have to recycle where you
>>> live? What would go in that can, in other words.
>
>
>> Many different plastic bottles such as pop, juice, milk, laundry
>> detergent, etc. Newspaper, catalogs, magazines. Food boxes such as
>> those for cereal, boxed pasta, frozen food, etc. Aluminum cans, scrap
>> metal, cardboard, and glass bottles. It can all go in together, so we
>> don't have to sort it into bins.Just load it all in the big bin.

And where does that go....we are literally killing (suffocating in
plastic) ourselves and the biosphere.

The oceans produce 75% of our air (oxygen) kill that and.....

There is a very big problem here...getting bigger every nano-second.
America has an inflated sense of its own self worth (power corrupts &
etc.), what it is entitled to. This must change.

America. The U.S.A. Can be frugal. As it has demonstrated, it can do
it right even in the new circumstances of the post cold war realignment
of global powers.

The Planetary chess set has been reset up. And another game commences.
America may have sacrificed a bishop but it gained a dominant
position of castles and knights.

Sat nam sri wha guru deva

obligitorialy,

M. Joseph Paul Littleshoes Esq.

"M. JL Esq." > wrote
>>
>>> Many different plastic bottles such as pop, juice, milk, laundry
>>> detergent, etc. Newspaper, catalogs, magazines. Food boxes such as
>>> those for cereal, boxed pasta, frozen food, etc. Aluminum cans, scrap
>>> metal, cardboard, and glass bottles. It can all go in together, so we
>>> don't have to sort it into bins.Just load it all in the big bin.
>
> And where does that go....we are literally killing (suffocating in
> plastic) ourselves and the biosphere.
>
> The oceans produce 75% of our air (oxygen) kill that and.....
>
> There is a very big problem here...getting bigger every nano-second.
> America has an inflated sense of its own self worth (power corrupts &
> etc.), what it is entitled to. This must change.

It is changing. Plastic can be recycled and it can have an overall positive
influence on our state of pollution. The problem is not plastic, it is lazy
slobs that toss it out instead of re-using it and recycling it. The plastic
that cannot be recycled is a good source of energy in a trash burning power
plant.

For a couple of industrial centuries, we though it was OK to just toss what
we did not want or use. Slowly we are learning to save money, energy and
perhaps the earth by taking a few simple steps. Re use that aluminum can
instead if digging more ore from the earth.

"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> It is changing. Plastic can be recycled and it can have an overall
> positive influence on our state of pollution. The problem is not plastic,
> it is lazy slobs that toss it out instead of re-using it and recycling it.
> The plastic that cannot be recycled is a good source of energy in a trash
> burning power plant.

Changing, but fast enough? In enough areas? You must admit reading here
everyday that it's okay to waste something because it's cheap and you can
afford it. I remember reading people saying they turned the AC way down so
they could bake in summer. They still build neighborhoods without sidewalks
or any transportation. It's just insane. It's immoral.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:50:47 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
>"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> It is changing. Plastic can be recycled and it can have an overall
>> positive influence on our state of pollution. The problem is not plastic,
>> it is lazy slobs that toss it out instead of re-using it and recycling it.
>> The plastic that cannot be recycled is a good source of energy in a trash
>> burning power plant.
>
>Changing, but fast enough? In enough areas? You must admit reading here
>everyday that it's okay to waste something because it's cheap and you can
>afford it. I remember reading people saying they turned the AC way down so
>they could bake in summer. They still build neighborhoods without sidewalks
>or any transportation. It's just insane. It's immoral.

Recycling plastics causes even more pollution... twice as much air
pollution as the original to produce half as much product. When I was
a kid folks brought their own reusable containers to the market,
usually glass jars... there was no plastic. The only solution is not
to produce plastic containers anymore... but that is not going to
happen... recycling is a sad joke. Separating trash is really an
exercise in futility, and most is still put into landfills as before,
they are getting folks to sort trash for nothing, so they think the're
doing something constructive, NOT!

Janet wrote:

> In article >, says...
>
>
>
>>The Planetary chess set has been reset up. And another game commences.
>> America may have sacrificed a bishop but it gained a dominant
>>position of castles and knights.
>
>
> Joe tries to impress while giving away his total ignorance of the
> subject... again.
>
>
> Janet

Apparently my little contribution was impressive enough to stimulate
your routine, knee jerk (emphasis on jerk response to anything YOU
don't understand. But i am curious, in your omniscience, what is it you
think i don't understand? geopolitics? envinronmental catastrophe &
collapse? or chess? Do you understand the chess reference was intended
as a metaphor? Look up a good map of our military dispositions in and
around the oil producing nations. The battle lines are drawn and our
knights and castles (military) occupy the high ground even if at the
cost of a bishop or 2 (our philosophical justifications.)

"60. ALLEGORIA DE CAISSA. (An Allegory on Chess)
Consider for an Example the Game and Play of the Chess, which is a
Pastime of Man, and
worthy to exercise him in Thought, yet by no means necessary to his
Life, so that he sweepeth
away Board and Pieces at the least Summons of that which is truly dear
to him. Thus unto him
this Game is as it were an Illusion. But insofar as he entereth into the
Game he abideth by the
Rules thereof, though they be artificial and in no wise proper to his
Nature; for in this Restriction
is all this Pleasure. Therefore, though he hath All-Power to move the
Pieces at his own Will, he
doth it not, enduring Loss, Indignity, and Defeat rather than destroy
that Artifice of Illusion.
Think then that thou hast thyself created this Shadow-world the
Universe, and that it pleasureth
thee to watch or to actuate its Play according to the Law that thou hast
made, which yet bindeth
thee not save only by Virtue of thine own Will to do thine own Pleasure
therein."
--
JL