On Jun 25, 3:08*am, dsi1 > wrote:
> On Jun 24, 7:16*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jerry Avins > wrote:
>
> > >> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 02:54:58 -0400, Cheryl >
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >> > My father, who WAS a physicist, was not convinced that a covered pot
> > >> > would boil faster than an uncovered pot. *I was always surprised when he
> > >> > said that. *Again I can't test because I only have one big burner on my
> > >> > electric stove top and the smaller ones don't seem to be evenly matched.
>
> > >I can't see Cheryl's post, so I'll answer here. A covered pot boils
> > >faster because the cover prevents the faster molecules from escaping.
>
> > This is another one Magee tested. *Turns out it does boil faster,
> > but the effect is not significant until heating the water is
> > farily far along. *Covering the pot just as it's approaching boiling
> > is sufficient to obtain almost all the benefit.
>
> > Steve
>
> This makes a lot of sense if most of the heat loss occurs when the
> water changes to steam and escapes into the room. Covering the pot
> recovers some of the latent heat by condensing it back into liquid
> water. I'll always try to cover the pot when boiling water - even if I
> have to use a cookie sheet or my big frying pan. Not doing so seems to
> be a waste of some good heat. :-)

Watch out! That cookie sheet will get hot where it projects over the
rim of the pot, especially with a gas stove.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 18:30:21 +1000, atec77 > wrote:

>On 25/06/2011 5:08 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Jun 24, 7:16 pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>>> Jerry > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 02:54:58 -0400, >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> My father, who WAS a physicist, was not convinced that a covered pot
>>>>>> would boil faster than an uncovered pot.

Your father was no physicist.

>>>> I can't see Cheryl's post, so I'll answer here. A covered pot boils
>>>> faster because the cover prevents the faster molecules from escaping.

That's true.

>> This makes a lot of sense if most of the heat loss occurs when the
>> water changes to steam and escapes into the room.

Water heated in an unpressureized vessel does not become steam, it
becomes water vapor.

>>Covering the pot
>> recovers some of the latent heat by condensing it back into liquid
>> water.

This is true.

Actually the lid reflects radiant heat energy back into the water
rather than from escaping to the atmosphere, prevents heated air
molecules from escaping, and returns heated condensate... without the
lid water evaporates and much more rapidly as temperature rises... and
evaporation actually has a cooling effect, so as the water temperature
rises so does the rate of cooling from evaporation... this is why an
uncovered pot seems to take forever to boil... the rate of rise
actually slows as the water approaches boil. All else equal a covered
pot will always reach the boil faster. And a lid prevents you from
watching and every physicist knows a watched pot never boils. This is
all summed up by observing what occurs by folks who have attempted to
cook pasta with the lid on... the pot has a macaroni orgasm... clear
viscous fluid erupts all over the pot, the stove, even can dribble
onto the floor.

Julie Bove wrote:
> Polly Esther wrote:
> > Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water
> > tank for cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's
> > a good idea. Polly
>
> I know they used to say this because lead was more likely to leach
> from the pipes. But if you have a house with PVC pipes like I do,
> this probably isn't true.

I don't care about the pipes. The tank is filled with mostly stagnant
water.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Jun 24, 9:32*am, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Jun 23, 7:14*pm, Kalmia > wrote:
>
> > I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
> > water. *Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
> > this. * Any truth to this, and if so, why?
>
> Try out this thought experiment:
>
> You have two identical pots, two identical burners, and two
> identical quantities of water.
>
> One of the pots of water is at 40 F, pretty far from boiling.
> The other pot is at 210 F, almost ready to boil.
>
> Apply heat from your two identical burners. *Which
> pot do you think will boil first?
>
> If the two pots of water are at 70 and 120 F, the
> difference in boiling times will be smaller, but
> I'd still expect the one starting at 120 F to boil
> first.
>
> As to the "does a covered pot boil quicker", that is
> an experiment you can readily conduct at home
> with one pot and one burner. *You'll have to make
> sure the initial conditions are the same for each
> run, but with a little patience that's feasible.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

I guess with a stopwatch, I could run a very weak experiment. Hey -
I heard this from a guy half in the bag at a bar - so I had my
doubts. He sure didn't look like the scientific type.

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
...
> On Jun 24, 9:32 am, Cindy Hamilton >
> wrote:
>> On Jun 23, 7:14 pm, Kalmia > wrote:
>>
>> > I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
>> > water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
>> > this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?
>>
>> Try out this thought experiment:
>>
>> You have two identical pots, two identical burners, and two
>> identical quantities of water.
>>
>> One of the pots of water is at 40 F, pretty far from boiling.
>> The other pot is at 210 F, almost ready to boil.
>>
>> Apply heat from your two identical burners. Which
>> pot do you think will boil first?
>>
>> If the two pots of water are at 70 and 120 F, the
>> difference in boiling times will be smaller, but
>> I'd still expect the one starting at 120 F to boil
>> first.
>>
>> As to the "does a covered pot boil quicker", that is
>> an experiment you can readily conduct at home
>> with one pot and one burner. You'll have to make
>> sure the initial conditions are the same for each
>> run, but with a little patience that's feasible.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>
> I guess with a stopwatch, I could run a very weak experiment. Hey -
> I heard this from a guy half in the bag at a bar - so I had my
> doubts. He sure didn't look like the scientific type.

<g>

--
--

https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Jun 25, 2:35*pm, "Tom Del Rosso" > wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
> > Polly Esther wrote:
> > > Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water
> > > tank for cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's
> > > a good idea. Polly
>
> > I know they used to say this because lead was more likely to leach
> > from the pipes. *But if you have a house with PVC pipes like I do,
> > this probably isn't true.
>
> I don't care about the pipes. *The tank is filled with mostly stagnant
> water.

Stagnant? Is that a joke? How long since the water in the mains (or
well) saw free air and the light of day? Stagnant water is what people
pay a dollar a bottle for.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 13:30:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Avins >
wrote:

>On Jun 25, 2:35*pm, "Tom Del Rosso" > wrote:
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>> > Polly Esther wrote:
>> > > Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water
>> > > tank for cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's
>> > > a good idea. Polly
>>
>> > I know they used to say this because lead was more likely to leach
>> > from the pipes. *But if you have a house with PVC pipes like I do,
>> > this probably isn't true.
>>
>> I don't care about the pipes. *The tank is filled with mostly stagnant
>> water.
>
>Stagnant? Is that a joke? How long since the water in the mains (or
>well) saw free air and the light of day? Stagnant water is what people
>pay a dollar a bottle for.
>
>Jerry

The water in my hot water heater tastes nasty. Much worse than the
cold water.

"James Post" > wrote
>
> The water in my hot water heater tastes nasty. Much worse than the
> cold water.

Very common. This come sup on the home repair newsgroups often. Sometimes
you get a sulfur type odor from a reaction with the anode. If you replace
it with a different material anode, it goes away. It also helps to flush
the bottom of the tank one a month or so.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 00:11:10 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:

>
>"James Post" > wrote
>>
>> The water in my hot water heater tastes nasty. Much worse than the
>> cold water.
>
>Very common. This come sup on the home repair newsgroups often. Sometimes
>you get a sulfur type odor from a reaction with the anode. If you replace
>it with a different material anode, it goes away. It also helps to flush
>the bottom of the tank one a month or so.

I never heard that about the heating element. How would I know what
material it's made of? Does it commonly give that information on the
package it comes in? I've certainly never noticed. To flush the bottom
of my water heater out, I'd have to hook a hose to the bottom, stretch
it out my back door and drain the tank. It's a pain in the ass when I
have to do it to change the element and I'm sure not doing it once a
month. I've made the decision to go to a On Demand type electric water
heater when this tank gives out. That will eliminate the problem of
any taste difference by removing the tank from the equation.

On 6/26/2011 7:14 AM, James Post wrote:
> I never heard that about the heating element. How would I know what
> material it's made of? Does it commonly give that information on the
> package it comes in? I've certainly never noticed. To flush the bottom
> of my water heater out, I'd have to hook a hose to the bottom, stretch
> it out my back door and drain the tank. It's a pain in the ass when I
> have to do it to change the element and I'm sure not doing it once a
> month. I've made the decision to go to a On Demand type electric water
> heater when this tank gives out. That will eliminate the problem of
> any taste difference by removing the tank from the equation.

The manufacturer of our new gas water heater, suggests that we release
one gallon of water each month. I guess we should be doing that.

Becca

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:14:24 -0400, James Post >
wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 00:11:10 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"James Post" > wrote
>>>
>>> The water in my hot water heater tastes nasty. Much worse than the
>>> cold water.
>>
>>Very common. This come sup on the home repair newsgroups often. Sometimes
>>you get a sulfur type odor from a reaction with the anode. If you replace
>>it with a different material anode, it goes away. It also helps to flush
>>the bottom of the tank one a month or so.
>
>I never heard that about the heating element. How would I know what
>material it's made of? Does it commonly give that information on the
>package it comes in? I've certainly never noticed. To flush the bottom
>of my water heater out, I'd have to hook a hose to the bottom, stretch
>it out my back door and drain the tank. It's a pain in the ass when I
>have to do it to change the element and I'm sure not doing it once a
>month. I've made the decision to go to a On Demand type electric water
>heater when this tank gives out. That will eliminate the problem of
>any taste difference by removing the tank from the equation.

The anode is not the heating element. The anode is a "sacrificial"
metal rod (usually magnesium) that's inserted into the tank so it will
corrode from electrolytic action instead of the element and other
parts.

http://www.plumbingstore.com/sacrificial_rods.html

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 09:16:18 -0500, Ema Nymton >
wrote:

>On 6/26/2011 7:14 AM, James Post wrote:
>> I never heard that about the heating element. How would I know what
>> material it's made of? Does it commonly give that information on the
>> package it comes in? I've certainly never noticed. To flush the bottom
>> of my water heater out, I'd have to hook a hose to the bottom, stretch
>> it out my back door and drain the tank. It's a pain in the ass when I
>> have to do it to change the element and I'm sure not doing it once a
>> month. I've made the decision to go to a On Demand type electric water
>> heater when this tank gives out. That will eliminate the problem of
>> any taste difference by removing the tank from the equation.
>
>The manufacturer of our new gas water heater, suggests that we release
>one gallon of water each month. I guess we should be doing that.

There should be a hose bib at the bottom of the tank, no big deal to
turn it wide open into a bucket, and dump a few bucketfuls each month
or connect a garden hose so the water can go directly outside. But
it's also a good ide to shut the supply valve, drain a gallon, and
then at the top of the tank open the union and pour in a pint of
ordinary clorox and reconnect the union. Let it sit for half a day to
kill the bacteria at the bottom of the tank before opening the supply
valve. Then go to each hot water tap in the house and let each run
for a minute until you smell the bleach, then close the valves. This
will fill each pipe with bleach solution so it can be disinfected
(don't forget your shower heads). A half day later you can open up all
the valves to flush out the clorox and you may see some dirty water,
that's the dead bacteria. It'll take about a week before you will no
longer smell the chlorine. Do this every two years. If your water is
normally chlorinated it won't be a strong enough solution to sanitize
your hot water system. You should never drink or cook with water from
the hot spigots... always consider hot water not potable because it is
not. But even if you don't drink that water the bacteria in hot water
will cause all sorts of nasty skin and eye problems, also why people
are continually afflicted with respiratory illnesses, especially sinus
infections, and many think they have allergies too with constant runny
nose, eyes, and night coughs. If you don't want to do this yourself
pay a plumber to "shock" your system but have it done regularly. Every
area has different water conditions so ask a local licenced plumber
how often to do this where you live. And keep in mind, your domestic
hot water is not nearly hot enough to kill bacteria but it's the
perfect temperature to help bacteria multiply faster. Cold water
pipes are usually not as much a problem, except for those with private
wells, then the well needs to be shocked too. Most folks ignore water
maintenence thinking their water company takes care of it, not smart,
because the water company is only responsible for the water up to
their meter, from the meter it's all your problem.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:57:06 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:14:24 -0400, James Post >
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 00:11:10 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"James Post" > wrote
>>>>
>>>> The water in my hot water heater tastes nasty. Much worse than the
>>>> cold water.
>>>
>>>Very common. This come sup on the home repair newsgroups often. Sometimes
>>>you get a sulfur type odor from a reaction with the anode. If you replace
>>>it with a different material anode, it goes away. It also helps to flush
>>>the bottom of the tank one a month or so.
>>
>>I never heard that about the heating element. How would I know what
>>material it's made of? Does it commonly give that information on the
>>package it comes in? I've certainly never noticed. To flush the bottom
>>of my water heater out, I'd have to hook a hose to the bottom, stretch
>>it out my back door and drain the tank. It's a pain in the ass when I
>>have to do it to change the element and I'm sure not doing it once a
>>month. I've made the decision to go to a On Demand type electric water
>>heater when this tank gives out. That will eliminate the problem of
>>any taste difference by removing the tank from the equation.
>
>The anode is not the heating element. The anode is a "sacrificial"
>metal rod (usually magnesium) that's inserted into the tank so it will
>corrode from electrolytic action instead of the element and other
>parts.
>
>http://www.plumbingstore.com/sacrificial_rods.html

Very interesting. The only way to see into my water heater is to drain
the entire tank, remove the heating element and look into it by
laying on the floor in front of the tank. I've looked in it before and
I've never seen what you describe. Perhaps I don't have one. I'm not a
plumber, that's for sure, and at $75 an hour, I can't afford to have
one come and look for that. I'll just wait until this tank expires and
get the On Demand electric water heater. I live by myself, so it's not
a major expense in my home. I'm looking forward to getting the On
Demand heater. As little hot water as I use, I think it will lower my
electric costs.

In article >, dsi1 >
wrote:


> at the same temperature. Boiling water and cooling it is supposed to
> provide clear icecubes when frozen because the dissolved gases have been
> removed. My guess is that setting water in a container under a strong
> vacuum might be the better way to go if you want to de-gas water.

Boiling water before making ice seems like a bad idea for people at
home, and most of us don't have a good source of vacuum. In addition,
home fridges and freezers do poorly at making large quantities of ice.

Companies that make ice are all designed for this. The machines that
produce cold also produce a lot of waste heat. That heat is used to
boil the water.

> Whenever I have to boil water, I always start with the hottest tap water
> I have. When filling ice cube trays, I'll always use cold tap water. To
> do otherwise would be a waste of energy.

Most people have to pay to heat that tap water. You have to heat not
only the water that you actually use, but also all the water you let run
down the drain while it was coming up to temperature. Afterwards, you
are left with pipes full of hot water, all of which you paid to heat.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On 6/26/2011 4:57 PM, Dan Abel wrote:
> Most people have to pay to heat that tap water. You have to heat not
> only the water that you actually use, but also all the water you let run
> down the drain while it was coming up to temperature. Afterwards, you
> are left with pipes full of hot water, all of which you paid to heat.
>

Of course someone has to pay to heat up hot water. That wasn't my point.
At the risk of stating the obvious, I'm trying to save a few minutes of
heating the water on the stove.

Don't be so sure that I'm wasting a bunch of heat either - as far as I
know, using the stove will mean that I'm paying to heat up the stove and
the room.

OTOH, I used an induction stove last night and that's a whole crapload
faster than using any method of heating water - including microwaving.
It's totally awesome! My guess is that induction stoves are gonna get
popular real fast.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:52:07 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>On 6/26/2011 4:57 PM, Dan Abel wrote:
>> Most people have to pay to heat that tap water. You have to heat not
>> only the water that you actually use, but also all the water you let run
>> down the drain while it was coming up to temperature. Afterwards, you
>> are left with pipes full of hot water, all of which you paid to heat.
>>
>
>Of course someone has to pay to heat up hot water. That wasn't my point.
>At the risk of stating the obvious, I'm trying to save a few minutes of
>heating the water on the stove.

Electric teakettle.

On 6/27/2011 7:19 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:52:07 -1000, > wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2011 4:57 PM, Dan Abel wrote:
>>> Most people have to pay to heat that tap water. You have to heat not
>>> only the water that you actually use, but also all the water you let run
>>> down the drain while it was coming up to temperature. Afterwards, you
>>> are left with pipes full of hot water, all of which you paid to heat.
>>>
>>
>> Of course someone has to pay to heat up hot water. That wasn't my point.
>> At the risk of stating the obvious, I'm trying to save a few minutes of
>> heating the water on the stove.
>
> Electric teakettle.

I got one of those. It's called an "electric water heater." :-)

On 6/26/2011 2:32 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 09:16:18 -0500, Ema >
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2011 7:14 AM, James Post wrote:
>>> I never heard that about the heating element. How would I know what
>>> material it's made of? Does it commonly give that information on the
>>> package it comes in? I've certainly never noticed. To flush the bottom
>>> of my water heater out, I'd have to hook a hose to the bottom, stretch
>>> it out my back door and drain the tank. It's a pain in the ass when I
>>> have to do it to change the element and I'm sure not doing it once a
>>> month. I've made the decision to go to a On Demand type electric water
>>> heater when this tank gives out. That will eliminate the problem of
>>> any taste difference by removing the tank from the equation.
>> The manufacturer of our new gas water heater, suggests that we release
>> one gallon of water each month. I guess we should be doing that.
> There should be a hose bib at the bottom of the tank, no big deal to
> turn it wide open into a bucket, and dump a few bucketfuls each month
> or connect a garden hose so the water can go directly outside. But
> it's also a good ide to shut the supply valve, drain a gallon, and
> then at the top of the tank open the union and pour in a pint of
> ordinary clorox and reconnect the union. Let it sit for half a day to
> kill the bacteria at the bottom of the tank before opening the supply
> valve. Then go to each hot water tap in the house and let each run
> for a minute until you smell the bleach, then close the valves. This
> will fill each pipe with bleach solution so it can be disinfected
> (don't forget your shower heads). A half day later you can open up all
> the valves to flush out the clorox and you may see some dirty water,
> that's the dead bacteria. It'll take about a week before you will no
> longer smell the chlorine. Do this every two years. If your water is
> normally chlorinated it won't be a strong enough solution to sanitize
> your hot water system. You should never drink or cook with water from
> the hot spigots... always consider hot water not potable because it is
> not. But even if you don't drink that water the bacteria in hot water
> will cause all sorts of nasty skin and eye problems, also why people
> are continually afflicted with respiratory illnesses, especially sinus
> infections, and many think they have allergies too with constant runny
> nose, eyes, and night coughs. If you don't want to do this yourself
> pay a plumber to "shock" your system but have it done regularly. Every
> area has different water conditions so ask a local licenced plumber
> how often to do this where you live. And keep in mind, your domestic
> hot water is not nearly hot enough to kill bacteria but it's the
> perfect temperature to help bacteria multiply faster. Cold water
> pipes are usually not as much a problem, except for those with private
> wells, then the well needs to be shocked too. Most folks ignore water
> maintenence thinking their water company takes care of it, not smart,
> because the water company is only responsible for the water up to
> their meter, from the meter it's all your problem.

Thanks Sheldon. I printed this, so I won't screw it up.

Becca

On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 17:06:11 -0500, Ema Nymton >
wrote:

>On 6/26/2011 2:32 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 09:16:18 -0500, Ema >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/26/2011 7:14 AM, James Post wrote:
>>>> I never heard that about the heating element. How would I know what
>>>> material it's made of? Does it commonly give that information on the
>>>> package it comes in? I've certainly never noticed. To flush the bottom
>>>> of my water heater out, I'd have to hook a hose to the bottom, stretch
>>>> it out my back door and drain the tank. It's a pain in the ass when I
>>>> have to do it to change the element and I'm sure not doing it once a
>>>> month. I've made the decision to go to a On Demand type electric water
>>>> heater when this tank gives out. That will eliminate the problem of
>>>> any taste difference by removing the tank from the equation.
>>> The manufacturer of our new gas water heater, suggests that we release
>>> one gallon of water each month. I guess we should be doing that.
>> There should be a hose bib at the bottom of the tank, no big deal to
>> turn it wide open into a bucket, and dump a few bucketfuls each month
>> or connect a garden hose so the water can go directly outside. But
>> it's also a good ide to shut the supply valve, drain a gallon, and
>> then at the top of the tank open the union and pour in a pint of
>> ordinary clorox and reconnect the union. Let it sit for half a day to
>> kill the bacteria at the bottom of the tank before opening the supply
>> valve. Then go to each hot water tap in the house and let each run
>> for a minute until you smell the bleach, then close the valves. This
>> will fill each pipe with bleach solution so it can be disinfected
>> (don't forget your shower heads). A half day later you can open up all
>> the valves to flush out the clorox and you may see some dirty water,
>> that's the dead bacteria. It'll take about a week before you will no
>> longer smell the chlorine. Do this every two years. If your water is
>> normally chlorinated it won't be a strong enough solution to sanitize
>> your hot water system. You should never drink or cook with water from
>> the hot spigots... always consider hot water not potable because it is
>> not. But even if you don't drink that water the bacteria in hot water
>> will cause all sorts of nasty skin and eye problems, also why people
>> are continually afflicted with respiratory illnesses, especially sinus
>> infections, and many think they have allergies too with constant runny
>> nose, eyes, and night coughs. If you don't want to do this yourself
>> pay a plumber to "shock" your system but have it done regularly. Every
>> area has different water conditions so ask a local licenced plumber
>> how often to do this where you live. And keep in mind, your domestic
>> hot water is not nearly hot enough to kill bacteria but it's the
>> perfect temperature to help bacteria multiply faster. Cold water
>> pipes are usually not as much a problem, except for those with private
>> wells, then the well needs to be shocked too. Most folks ignore water
>> maintenence thinking their water company takes care of it, not smart,
>> because the water company is only responsible for the water up to
>> their meter, from the meter it's all your problem.
>
>Thanks Sheldon. I printed this, so I won't screw it up.
>
>Becca

You're welcome, Becca. Any questions just ask.

Janet > wrote:

>In article >,
>says...
>> In Britain the hot water tanks empty out as you use hot water.
>
> No, they don't empty. As hot water runs out through one pipe, the tank
>automatically refills (with cold) through another.

That would be the normal operation of a water heater in North America.
>
>> At least, that was true in previous decades, maybe they have
>> changed.
>
> It's never been true in my lifetime.

It was prevalent in the U.K. in 1985.

Steve

Janet > wrote:

>In article >,

[ In Britain the hot water tanks empty out as you use hot water ]

>> It was prevalent in the U.K. in 1985.

> I'm older than that :-) and it wasn't. You may be confusing hot water
>tanks running out of hot water (but they are still full of water, it's
>just cold, until it gets heated up again).

No, I'm not confused, I've seen this firsthand and discussed it
with UK homeowners during the 1980's time frame.

(Perhaps it is a regional thing, with water heaters that drained empty
with water usage being phased out more recently in some parts of Britain
than others?)


Steve