I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting and
some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that there
was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people on a
600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an apple?
Polly

"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
>I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
> apple? Polly

The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie a day
diet.

Paul

On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:35:11 -0500, "Polly Esther"
> wrote:

> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting and
> some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that there
> was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people on a
> 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an apple?
> Polly

600 would be a starvation diet. Maybe it was 1600.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
>I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
> apple? Polly

Yes, you heard it. That was posted about on the diabetes newsgroup. Nobody
could live on a diet like that for very long. And in fact in the old days
diabetes was treated by a starvation diet that consisted of mainly just fat.

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>>actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>>and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>>there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>>people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the
>> Sam Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>> apple? Polly
>
> The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie a day
> diet.

I think we all know the answer to that!

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:35:11 -0500, "Polly Esther"
> > wrote:
>
>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>> and
>> some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>> there
>> was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people on
>> a
>> 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the
>> Sam
>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>> apple?
>> Polly
>
> 600 would be a starvation diet. Maybe it was 1600.
>
Nope.

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110...verse-diabetes

I don't even eat 1600 calories. Haven't for years! I would gain weight if
I ate that much.

In article >, Paul M. Cook > wrote:
>
>"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
>>I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>>actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>>and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>>there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>>people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>> apple? Polly
>
>The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie a day
>diet.

That's the reason they give new type 2 diabetics gastric surgery


S.

sf > wrote:

>600 would be a starvation diet. Maybe it was 1600.

600 is a typical medically supervised diet for those facing
horrendous health problems if they do not diet.

Don't try it at home though.


Steve

On 6/27/2011 5:35 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
> and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
> there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
> people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
> apple? Polly

My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
diabetes. A year ago, he was in poor shape and had to take insulin by
injection. He's on some diet where he drinks powered material of some
sort for meals. My guess is that this restricts his daily intake to
about 1500 calories or less a day. Anyway, he no longer takes any drugs
to regulate his blood sugar. Pretty amazing stuff.

A couple of weeks ago, he was into making fudge. He's quite good at it
too. He made a key lime fudge that was interesting - it tasted kinda
like soap to me. That was weird - he's never shown any interest in
cooking or candy making before...

"dsi1" > wrote in message
. com...
> On 6/27/2011 5:35 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>> and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>> there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>> people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>> apple? Polly
>
> My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
> diabetes. A year ago, he was in poor shape and had to take insulin by
> injection. He's on some diet where he drinks powered material of some sort
> for meals. My guess is that this restricts his daily intake to about 1500
> calories or less a day. Anyway, he no longer takes any drugs to regulate
> his blood sugar. Pretty amazing stuff.
>
> A couple of weeks ago, he was into making fudge. He's quite good at it
> too. He made a key lime fudge that was interesting - it tasted kinda like
> soap to me. That was weird - he's never shown any interest in cooking or
> candy making before...

Just because he's not on meds doesn't mean his diabetes went away. Diabetes
can be controlled by diet alone or diet and exercise. Not everyone can do
this. And sometimes weight loss alone brings it under control. Sometimes
it doesn't. There are over 300 variants to diabetes. Yet most of us are
lumped into either type 1 or type 2.

In article >,
"Polly Esther" > wrote:

> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting and
> some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that there
> was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people on a
> 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an apple?
> Polly

Considering the WHO's threshold for starvation is 1200 calories a day,
the symptoms may stop not long before the patient does.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Polly Esther" > wrote:
>
>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>> and
>> some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>> there
>> was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people on
>> a
>> 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the
>> Sam
>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>> apple?
>> Polly
>
> Considering the WHO's threshold for starvation is 1200 calories a day,
> the symptoms may stop not long before the patient does.
>
> Miche

What? That can't be right. I sometimes eat that many calories, but most
days closer to 1000. I'm sure not starving!

"atec77" > wrote in message
...
> On 28/06/2011 3:12 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>> In >, Paul M. >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Polly > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>>>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while
>>>> quilting
>>>> and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard
>>>> that
>>>> there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>>>> people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>>>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the
>>>> Sam
>>>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>>>> apple? Polly
>>>
>>> The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie a
>>> day
>>> diet.
>>
>> That's the reason they give new type 2 diabetics gastric surgery
>>
>>
>> S.
> I haven't heard of this url ?

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110...verse-diabetes

dsi1 > wrote:

>My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
>diabetes.

That's possible. The reason it's possible is that even very
short-term transient hyperglycemia can meet the definition of
diabetes. Hence, gestational diabetes, or steriod-induced,
can be readily reversed. I have pre-diabetes after a course
of steroids so I was careful with diet and it went away, hasn't returned.
A doc today offered me a steroid shot, I said no way, not that
desperate.

If it's lifestyle induced you're going to have a more difficult time
reversing it, especially if it stays in there awhile. But it's still not
categoritcally impossible. (May be impossible for some patients.)

Steve

On 6/27/2011 7:19 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> > wrote in message
> . com...
>> On 6/27/2011 5:35 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
>>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>>> and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>>> there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>>> people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
>>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>>> apple? Polly
>>
>> My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
>> diabetes. A year ago, he was in poor shape and had to take insulin by
>> injection. He's on some diet where he drinks powered material of some sort
>> for meals. My guess is that this restricts his daily intake to about 1500
>> calories or less a day. Anyway, he no longer takes any drugs to regulate
>> his blood sugar. Pretty amazing stuff.
>>
>> A couple of weeks ago, he was into making fudge. He's quite good at it
>> too. He made a key lime fudge that was interesting - it tasted kinda like
>> soap to me. That was weird - he's never shown any interest in cooking or
>> candy making before...
>
> Just because he's not on meds doesn't mean his diabetes went away. Diabetes
> can be controlled by diet alone or diet and exercise. Not everyone can do
> this. And sometimes weight loss alone brings it under control. Sometimes
> it doesn't. There are over 300 variants to diabetes. Yet most of us are
> lumped into either type 1 or type 2.
>
>

You're right about this - he's not cured. He just doesn't have to take
any medication. My guess is that he'll have to watch his weight or it'll
come back.

My wife's friend might have been cured. She had sky high A1C numbers and
had a gastric bypass surgery. She lost some weight, gained it back, but
seems to no longer have T-2 diabetes. My wife says she drinks 2 large
bottles of soda a night plus some 12 oz cans which could mean she drinks
as much as a gallon of so each night. Holy smokes!

On 6/27/2011 9:00 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
>> diabetes.
>
> That's possible. The reason it's possible is that even very
> short-term transient hyperglycemia can meet the definition of
> diabetes. Hence, gestational diabetes, or steriod-induced,
> can be readily reversed. I have pre-diabetes after a course
> of steroids so I was careful with diet and it went away, hasn't returned.
> A doc today offered me a steroid shot, I said no way, not that
> desperate.
>
> If it's lifestyle induced you're going to have a more difficult time
> reversing it, especially if it stays in there awhile. But it's still not
> categoritcally impossible. (May be impossible for some patients.)
>
> Steve

He's probably prone to it since my dad and I both have type II and take
medication. I thought it was pretty funny that he'd be getting into
making fudge. I can only have a small piece of it though. He makes a
really smooth batch!

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 6/27/2011 7:19 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> . com...
>>> On 6/27/2011 5:35 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
>>>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>>>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while
>>>> quilting
>>>> and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>>>> there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>>>> people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>>>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
>>>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>>>> apple? Polly
>>>
>>> My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
>>> diabetes. A year ago, he was in poor shape and had to take insulin by
>>> injection. He's on some diet where he drinks powered material of some
>>> sort
>>> for meals. My guess is that this restricts his daily intake to about
>>> 1500
>>> calories or less a day. Anyway, he no longer takes any drugs to regulate
>>> his blood sugar. Pretty amazing stuff.
>>>
>>> A couple of weeks ago, he was into making fudge. He's quite good at it
>>> too. He made a key lime fudge that was interesting - it tasted kinda
>>> like
>>> soap to me. That was weird - he's never shown any interest in cooking or
>>> candy making before...
>>
>> Just because he's not on meds doesn't mean his diabetes went away.
>> Diabetes
>> can be controlled by diet alone or diet and exercise. Not everyone can
>> do
>> this. And sometimes weight loss alone brings it under control.
>> Sometimes
>> it doesn't. There are over 300 variants to diabetes. Yet most of us are
>> lumped into either type 1 or type 2.
>>
>>
>
> You're right about this - he's not cured. He just doesn't have to take any
> medication. My guess is that he'll have to watch his weight or it'll come
> back.
>
> My wife's friend might have been cured. She had sky high A1C numbers and
> had a gastric bypass surgery. She lost some weight, gained it back, but
> seems to no longer have T-2 diabetes. My wife says she drinks 2 large
> bottles of soda a night plus some 12 oz cans which could mean she drinks
> as much as a gallon of so each night. Holy smokes!

She drinks that much after gastric bypass? If so she'll bust herself.

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Polly Esther" > wrote:
> >
> >> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
> >> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
> >> and
> >> some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
> >> there
> >> was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people on
> >> a
> >> 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> >> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the
> >> Sam
> >> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
> >> apple?
> >> Polly
> >
> > Considering the WHO's threshold for starvation is 1200 calories a day,
> > the symptoms may stop not long before the patient does.
>
> What? That can't be right. I sometimes eat that many calories, but most
> days closer to 1000. I'm sure not starving!

Lucky you.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

"dsi1" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> My wife's friend might have been cured. She had sky high A1C numbers and
> had a gastric bypass surgery. She lost some weight, gained it back, but
> seems to no longer have T-2 diabetes. My wife says she drinks 2 large
> bottles of soda a night plus some 12 oz cans which could mean she drinks
> as much as a gallon of so each night. Holy smokes!

Sounds like Darwinism at work. Cured?

On 6/27/2011 10:42 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 6/27/2011 7:19 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>> . com...
>>>> On 6/27/2011 5:35 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
>>>>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>>>>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while
>>>>> quilting
>>>>> and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>>>>> there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>>>>> people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>>>>> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
>>>>> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>>>>> apple? Polly
>>>>
>>>> My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
>>>> diabetes. A year ago, he was in poor shape and had to take insulin by
>>>> injection. He's on some diet where he drinks powered material of some
>>>> sort
>>>> for meals. My guess is that this restricts his daily intake to about
>>>> 1500
>>>> calories or less a day. Anyway, he no longer takes any drugs to regulate
>>>> his blood sugar. Pretty amazing stuff.
>>>>
>>>> A couple of weeks ago, he was into making fudge. He's quite good at it
>>>> too. He made a key lime fudge that was interesting - it tasted kinda
>>>> like
>>>> soap to me. That was weird - he's never shown any interest in cooking or
>>>> candy making before...
>>>
>>> Just because he's not on meds doesn't mean his diabetes went away.
>>> Diabetes
>>> can be controlled by diet alone or diet and exercise. Not everyone can
>>> do
>>> this. And sometimes weight loss alone brings it under control.
>>> Sometimes
>>> it doesn't. There are over 300 variants to diabetes. Yet most of us are
>>> lumped into either type 1 or type 2.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You're right about this - he's not cured. He just doesn't have to take any
>> medication. My guess is that he'll have to watch his weight or it'll come
>> back.
>>
>> My wife's friend might have been cured. She had sky high A1C numbers and
>> had a gastric bypass surgery. She lost some weight, gained it back, but
>> seems to no longer have T-2 diabetes. My wife says she drinks 2 large
>> bottles of soda a night plus some 12 oz cans which could mean she drinks
>> as much as a gallon of so each night. Holy smokes!
>
> She drinks that much after gastric bypass? If so she'll bust herself.
>

It must have been 5 years since she got it. I guess she's adapted. It's
unclear to me if my wife means 1 or 2 liter bottles when she says "big
bottles." Either way it's an ungodly amount of sugar and HFCS to ingest
daily.

About 10 years ago, I started eating half portions of food. I lost my
appetite and just got into the habit. My stomach must have shrank
because I can't eat very much at a sitting. I eat like a little girl
except there's probably little girls that can eat more than I can.

On 6/27/2011 10:59 PM, Giusi wrote:
> > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> My wife's friend might have been cured. She had sky high A1C numbers and
>> had a gastric bypass surgery. She lost some weight, gained it back, but
>> seems to no longer have T-2 diabetes. My wife says she drinks 2 large
>> bottles of soda a night plus some 12 oz cans which could mean she drinks
>> as much as a gallon of so each night. Holy smokes!
>
> Sounds like Darwinism at work. Cured?
>
>

Boy, the docs and the insurance co. sure made it hard for her to get
that surgery! She had to lose some weight and quit smoking. I think
she's smoking again but it's got to be tough buying all that soda and
cigarettes. I wonder if soda & cigarettes can sustain life? :-)

"Paul M. Cook" wrote:
>
> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
> >actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
> >and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
> >there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
> >people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> > Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> > Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
> > apple? Polly
>
> The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie a day
> diet.
>
> Paul

That and how long can one survive on a starvation diet.

"Polly Esther" > wrote in
:

> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while
> quilting and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I
> heard that there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put
> about a dozen people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms
> disappeared.
> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in
> the Sam
> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
> apple? Polly
>

http://www.latimes.com/health/booste...-extreme-diet-
06252011,0,7790769.story

In article
>,
Miche > wrote:

> In article >,
> "Polly Esther" > wrote:
>
> > I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
> > actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
> > and
> > some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that there
> > was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people on a
> > 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> > Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> > Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an apple?
> > Polly
>
> Considering the WHO's threshold for starvation is 1200 calories a day,
> the symptoms may stop not long before the patient does.

No. From the study:

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110...et-may-reverse
-diabetes

"The men and the women in the study weighed an average of 220 pounds at
the start of the study and lost an average of 33 pounds over eight
weeks."

If you can get past the headline, it was an interesting study. It's
been long known that most Type II diabetics are obese, and that losing
excess weight can cause symptoms to go away. However, you don't lose
your diagnosis, you just go from "uncontrolled" to "controlled". What
was different about this study, was that they looked more carefully to
see what changed, other than just the weight.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Paul M. Cook wrote:

>
> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets
> > us actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while
> > quilting and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems
> > like I heard that there was some sort of study about diabetics.
> > They put about a dozen people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their
> > symptoms disappeared. Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's
> > expression, "What in the Sam Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be?
> > Maybe a stalk of celery and an apple? Polly
>
> The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie a
> day diet.
>
> Paul

From the scientific news reports I've seen, most of them are still free
of Type 2 diabetes -- at least, for as long as they were observed.

--
Dan Goodman
dsgood at lj, dw, ij, tw__ , Diaspora fb: see above

Pete C. wrote:

>
> "Paul M. Cook" wrote:
> >
> > "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets
> > > us actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial)
> > > while quilting and some of the announcement missed my ears. It
> > > seems like I heard that there was some sort of study about
> > > diabetics. They put about a dozen people on a 600 calorie a day
> > > diet and their symptoms disappeared. Did I really hear that?
> > > And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam Hill" could a 600
> > > calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an apple? Polly
> >
> > The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie
> > a day diet.
> >
> > Paul
>
> That and how long can one survive on a starvation diet.

Actually, people (and lab animals) live rather longer.

But a common side effect is being hungry all the time.

--
Dan Goodman
dsgood at lj, dw, ij, tw__ , Diaspora fb: see above

Miche > wrote:

>Considering the WHO's threshold for starvation is 1200 calories a day,
>the symptoms may stop not long before the patient does.

This is why it must be medically supervised. They check your
EKG and monitor your electrolyte balance. (Possibly other things
as well.) Otherwise there is a health risk, similar to that
face by persons bulemic.

Steve

Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Miche" > wrote in message

>> Considering the WHO's threshold for starvation is 1200 calories a day,
>> the symptoms may stop not long before the patient does.

>What? That can't be right. I sometimes eat that many calories, but most
>days closer to 1000. I'm sure not starving!

I'm thinking the WHO number might be the required average over
a population, as opposed to a required minimum for each person.
Just a guess.

Steve

Julie Bove > wrote:

>She drinks that much after gastric bypass? If so she'll bust herself.

There's various different types of bariatric surgery these days,
maybe not all of them require restricting fluids all that much.

Steve

dsi1 wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> > wrote:
>
>>> My son lost a bunch of weight and apparently cured himself of type II
>>> diabetes. A year ago, he was in poor shape and had to take insulin by
>>> injection. He's on some diet where he drinks powered material of some sort
>>> for meals. My guess is that this restricts his daily intake to about 1500
>>> calories or less a day. Anyway, he no longer takes any drugs to regulate
>>> his blood sugar. Pretty amazing stuff.

The 600-800 calorie per day level is gastric lap band level. It tends
to turn off diabetes symptoms so they started looking for non-surgical
means to acheive the same goal. The result looks a lot like OptiFast.

The question is what's the maintenance phase like. There is no way that
600-800 calories is sustainable in a world where unlimited food is
available. Some system is needed to keep from binging and regaining it
all. Some of the more extreme diets suggest Jenny Craig as their
intermediate step and Weight Watchers as their maintenance plan.

>> Just because he's not on meds doesn't mean his diabetes went away. Diabetes
>> can be controlled by diet alone or diet and exercise. Not everyone can do
>> this. And sometimes weight loss alone brings it under control. Sometimes
>> it doesn't. There are over 300 variants to diabetes. Yet most of us are
>> lumped into either type 1 or type 2.
>
> You're right about this - he's not cured. He just doesn't have to take
> any medication. My guess is that he'll have to watch his weight or it'll
> come back.

There are two valid definitions of cured -

1) Stop taking the poison and the symptoms go away without medication.
If you view carby foods as poison to a diabetic then maintenance diets
that are low carb count by this definition. It only works for folks
whose panceas damage is below some level.

> My wife's friend might have been cured. She had sky high A1C numbers and
> had a gastric bypass surgery. She lost some weight, gained it back, but
> seems to no longer have T-2 diabetes. My wife says she drinks 2 large
> bottles of soda a night plus some 12 oz cans which could mean she drinks
> as much as a gallon of so each night. Holy smokes!

2) Damage is reversed and you can go back to going what you did before
you started. This type of cure is very rare. Also eating the way you
ate before the diagnosis caused or contributed to the diabetes in the
first place.

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>She drinks that much after gastric bypass? If so she'll bust herself.
>
> There's various different types of bariatric surgery these days,
> maybe not all of them require restricting fluids all that much.

Maybe but I've never heard of one that didn't.

Pete C. wrote:
> "Paul M. Cook" wrote:
> >
> > The question is what happens when you take them off the 600 calorie
> > a day diet.
> >
> > Paul
>
> That and how long can one survive on a starvation diet.

1000 Kcal / day is supposed to be subsistence

In the last months of WWII the Japanese populace was rationed 800 Kcal /
day.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

i am not sure what you heard, but there is some really interesting research
on VLC diets, very low calorie, and age related issues and female type
issues, so might be they are onto bg now, Lee
"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
>I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while quilting
>and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>there was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen
>people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
> Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the Sam
> Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
> apple? Polly

om,
i am sure you already know this, but have you read and considered starvation
mode? usually closer to the under 1k but can occur if you eat close to the
same amount of calories for an extended time period, Lee


"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article
> >,
> Miche > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> "Polly Esther" > wrote:
>>
>> > I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets us
>> > actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while
>> > quilting
>> > and
>> > some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems like I heard that
>> > there
>> > was some sort of study about diabetics. They put about a dozen people
>> > on a
>> > 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms disappeared.
>> > Did I really hear that? And, in my Moma's expression, "What in the
>> > Sam
>> > Hill" could a 600 calorie a diet be? Maybe a stalk of celery and an
>> > apple?
>> > Polly
>>
>> Considering the WHO's threshold for starvation is 1200 calories a day,
>> the symptoms may stop not long before the patient does.
>>
>> Miche
>
> 1,200 calories per day for me is maintenance. Anything over that and I
> gain weight. I have to drop below 1,000 to lose weight.
>
> Bum thyroids will slow metabolism to a crawl...
> --
> Peace, Om
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
>
> "Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
> come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
> -- Mark Twain

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 21:49:20 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

> I have to drop below 1,000 to lose weight.

OW! I thought you went back to weight training a few months ago... or
did you not have that shoulder (was that it) problem taken care of?

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

Omelet wrote:
> "Storrmmee" > wrote:
>
>> i am sure you already know this, but have you read and considered starvation
>> mode? usually closer to the under 1k but can occur if you eat close to the
>> same amount of calories for an extended time period
>
> I am not quite sure what you are referring too?

Metabolism reduces with reduced intake. At some point it hits a bottom
and we starve. Long before that reduced metabolism interferes with
weight loss. We've discussed this in terms of too low in carb for too
long resulting in a long term adjustment that I call "Eskimo mode" to
slow down fat burning but there are similar mechanisms in place for too
little fat and protein.

> What is body fat for it not to live thru starvation phases?
> That is what it's there for in the first place. ;-)

And if the body burned fat first during starvation many would not
survive the famine. Evolution forced metabolic reduction during
starvation. To lose without rebound takes a smaller caloric reduction,
a skill issue not a willpower issue.

Doug Freyburger > wrote:

>Metabolism reduces with reduced intake. At some point it hits a bottom
>and we starve. Long before that reduced metabolism interferes with
>weight loss. We've discussed this in terms of too low in carb for too
>long resulting in a long term adjustment that I call "Eskimo mode" to
>slow down fat burning but there are similar mechanisms in place for too
>little fat and protein. [..]

>And if the body burned fat first during starvation many would not
>survive the famine. Evolution forced metabolic reduction during
>starvation. To lose without rebound takes a smaller caloric reduction,
>a skill issue not a willpower issue.

This is why weight-loss diets are in the 1200 to 1500 calorie/day
range, unless there is some medical reason to lose weight faster
(such as preparing for surgery, or reversing the recent onset
of diabetes).

You really don't want to diet down to where these metabolic changes
are truly significant.

Steve

you will get a better explaination than i am going to give by googling, but
the short version is that if you eat a set amount of calories for an
extended period of time, your body figures out, or thinks it has that it is
going to starve so when you do eat over your regular amount of calories,
your body grabs the extra calories and stores them. at the same time your
body seeing the set amount of calories becomes very effecient at using the
allltted amount of calories to keep you aliive. so again it uses les and
stores the rest.

so your metabolic rate slows from your body thinking it is going to starve.
in order to make your body give up the fat and use it for energy you have to
vary your amount of calories and try and do things to speed the metobolic
rate.

someone tried to get me to unnderstand this but i didn't get it until they
used the example of exercise, when you sart a new form of exercise, say
swimming when before you only did a brisk walk daily, your body will use
extra calories and different muscles will develope... but after a while you
burn less calories because your body gets used to the swimming, so you can
switch to walking or add a third thing...

as an ancedotal reference, i ate so few calories that when i started weight
watchers i lost the first two weeks but maintained for three after that i
felt better but didn't lose then for the next three weeks lost over ten lbs,
then i settled into small but dependable losses.

i hope i made sense of this.

Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Storrmmee" > wrote:
>
>> om,
>> i am sure you already know this, but have you read and considered
>> starvation
>> mode? usually closer to the under 1k but can occur if you eat close to
>> the
>> same amount of calories for an extended time period, Lee
>
> I am not quite sure what you are referring too?
>
> What is body fat for it not to live thru starvation phases?
>
> That is what it's there for in the first place. ;-)
> --
> Peace, Om
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
>
> "Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
> come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
> -- Mark Twain

much better put than i did, Lee
"Doug Freyburger" > wrote in message
...
> Omelet wrote:
>> "Storrmmee" > wrote:
>>
>>> i am sure you already know this, but have you read and considered
>>> starvation
>>> mode? usually closer to the under 1k but can occur if you eat close to
>>> the
>>> same amount of calories for an extended time period
>>
>> I am not quite sure what you are referring too?
>
> Metabolism reduces with reduced intake. At some point it hits a bottom
> and we starve. Long before that reduced metabolism interferes with
> weight loss. We've discussed this in terms of too low in carb for too
> long resulting in a long term adjustment that I call "Eskimo mode" to
> slow down fat burning but there are similar mechanisms in place for too
> little fat and protein.
>
>> What is body fat for it not to live thru starvation phases?
>> That is what it's there for in the first place. ;-)
>
> And if the body burned fat first during starvation many would not
> survive the famine. Evolution forced metabolic reduction during
> starvation. To lose without rebound takes a smaller caloric reduction,
> a skill issue not a willpower issue.

Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> I was sort of listening to the news on tv ( the network that lets
>> us
>> actually hear some of the testimony in the Anthony trial) while
>> quilting and some of the announcement missed my ears. It seems
>> like
>> I heard that there was some sort of study about diabetics. They
>> put
>> about a dozen people on a 600 calorie a day diet and their symptoms
>> disappeared.
>
> They were type-2 diabetics and in some of them the diabetes
> disappeared after they lost a significant amount of weight. It's the
> weight loss that changed their diagnosis, rather than what they
> consumed.
>
> http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110...t-may-reverse-
> diabetes
>
>
> Janet.

I have been slim all my life. When I was diagnosed with Type II I
weighed 103 pounds.

Dora