Kent wrote:

> http://www.coyotecafe.com/

Been there. Drank a *lot* of their so-called "Brazilian daiquiris," which
are really just rum which has been infused with pineapple, vanilla bean, and
piloncillo.

Before going there I already owned three of their cookbooks, all of which
are excellent:

http://www.amazon.com/Coyote-Cafe-Fo.../dp/0898152453
http://www.amazon.com/Coyotes-Pantry.../dp/0898154944
http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Coyote-Ca.../dp/0898156548

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
b.com...
> Kent wrote:
>
>> http://www.coyotecafe.com/
>
> Been there. Drank a *lot* of their so-called "Brazilian daiquiris," which
> are really just rum which has been infused with pineapple, vanilla bean,
> and piloncillo.
>
> Before going there I already owned three of their cookbooks, all of which
> are excellent:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Coyote-Cafe-Fo.../dp/0898152453
> http://www.amazon.com/Coyotes-Pantry.../dp/0898154944
> http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Coyote-Ca.../dp/0898156548
>
> Bob
>
Mark Miller, before he owned or wrote was the chef for Chez Panisse under
Alice Waters. Chez Panisse is the restaurant that started "California
Cooking". Here's an intresting site.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FlC...r% 22&f=false
Alice Waters, the owner of Chez Panisse, at some level made all of this
happen. She in some fashion nurtured Mark Miller, Jeremiah Tower, the Acme
Bakery, and lots of others to create something we didn't have before.

Kent

Kent tried one-upping:

> Mark Miller, before he owned or wrote was the chef for Chez Panisse under
> Alice Waters. Chez Panisse is the restaurant that started "California
> Cooking". Here's an intresting site.
> http://books.google.com/books?id=FlC...r% 22&f=false
> Alice Waters, the owner of Chez Panisse, at some level made all of this
> happen. She in some fashion nurtured Mark Miller, Jeremiah Tower, the Acme
> Bakery, and lots of others to create something we didn't have before.

Whatever, dude.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
b.com...
> Kent tried one-upping:
>
>> Mark Miller, before he owned or wrote was the chef for Chez Panisse under
>> Alice Waters. Chez Panisse is the restaurant that started "California
>> Cooking". Here's an intresting site.
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=FlC...r% 22&f=false
>> Alice Waters, the owner of Chez Panisse, at some level made all of this
>> happen. She in some fashion nurtured Mark Miller, Jeremiah Tower, the
>> Acme
>> Bakery, and lots of others to create something we didn't have before.
>
> Whatever, dude.
>
> Bob
>
I was just making a parenthetical comment about Mark Miller that I find
interesting, and think others might as well. I have no interest in
one-upping. I have the above book on reserve at our local library. We
started going to Alice Waters' Chez Panisse, Mark Miller's 4th St. Grill,
and Jeremiah Tower's Santa Fe Bar and Grill when all opened. The whole
culinary explosion occured right in our back yard.

Kent

Kent piled it on:

>> Kent tried one-upping:
>>
>>> Mark Miller, before he owned or wrote was the chef for Chez Panisse
>>> under Alice Waters. Chez Panisse is the restaurant that started
>>> "California Cooking". Here's an intresting site.
>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=FlC...r% 22&f=false
>>> Alice Waters, the owner of Chez Panisse, at some level made all of this
>>> happen. She in some fashion nurtured Mark Miller, Jeremiah Tower, the
>>> Acme Bakery, and lots of others to create something we didn't have
>>> before.
>>
>> Whatever, dude.
>>
>> Bob
>>
> I was just making a parenthetical comment about Mark Miller that I find
> interesting, and think others might as well. I have no interest in
> one-upping. I have the above book on reserve at our local library. We
> started going to Alice Waters' Chez Panisse, Mark Miller's 4th St. Grill,
> and Jeremiah Tower's Santa Fe Bar and Grill when all opened. The whole
> culinary explosion occured right in our back yard.


Fascinating! Do go on!

Bob

Christine wrote:

> This is the 40th anniversary year of Chez Panisse, and oh how I wish I
> could afford to go to one of the dinners being held this August at the
> restaurant.

At $2500 a head for the meal prepared by David Tanis, what if he served
something you didn't like, were allergic to, or were unable to eat for some
medical reason?

It just so happens that I'll be on vacation from August 21 through September
6, so I *could* attend if I so chose. But I will allow this "opportunity" to
pass, thankyouverymuch.

I'd rather prepare a "Provencal feast" using local ingredients at my own
house, thereby not only saving a colossal amount of money and following the
precepts of "California cuisine", but avoiding the pandemonian cluster-****
that is Berkeley traffic -- and not incidentally, also assuring myself of a
meal I will enjoy, in company I can choose.

Bob

On 7/21/2011 3:45 AM, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>
> At $2500 a head for the meal prepared by David Tanis, what if he served
> something you didn't like, were allergic to, or were unable to eat for some
> medical reason?

Good heavens, $2500 for a single meal for a person at a restaurant
??!!!! OUCH. Why so high a price? Just because they can? If that's
the case, then perhaps a 'boycott' is justified? However, since it's
California, I'm sure there are folks who'll bite (ouch!) and pay. I bet
substitutions aren't allowed either, but that's conjecture on my part.

Sky, who can only wish her wallet to allow such a budget! <G>

--

Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!

Sky wrote:

>> At $2500 a head for the meal prepared by David Tanis, what if he served
>> something you didn't like, were allergic to, or were unable to eat for
>> some
>> medical reason?
>
> Good heavens, $2500 for a single meal for a person at a restaurant ??!!!!
> OUCH. Why so high a price? Just because they can? If that's the case,
> then perhaps a 'boycott' is justified? However, since it's California,
> I'm sure there are folks who'll bite (ouch!) and pay. I bet substitutions
> aren't allowed either, but that's conjecture on my part.

Proceeds from the dinner go to the Chez Panisse Foundation, so diners will
be able to pat themselves on the back for being so generous to charity --
which is pretty much par for the course in Berkeley. That being said, the
chefs and restaurant employees are not DONATING their services for the
evening; I'm sure the guest chefs will be paid handsomely.

Come to think of it, would you still tip somewhere in the 20% range for that
dinner? (Cha-CHING!)

Bob

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:51:19 -0700, "Kent" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
web.com...
>>> Kent tried one-upping:
>>>
>>>> Mark Miller, before he owned or wrote was the chef for Chez Panisse
>>>> under
>>>> Alice Waters. Chez Panisse is the restaurant that started "California
>>>> Cooking". Here's an intresting site.
>>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=FlC...r% 22&f=false
>>>> Alice Waters, the owner of Chez Panisse, at some level made all of this
>>>> happen. She in some fashion nurtured Mark Miller, Jeremiah Tower, the
>>>> Acme
>>>> Bakery, and lots of others to create something we didn't have before.
>
> I have that book, Kent. It is a fascinating read, about the dawn of
> Chez Panisse,and the people (especially Alice) who brought it about.
> And about the reach of her influence, which was extensive then, and
> now.
>
> The book isn't a fawning over Alice Waters, and it sometimes paints
> her in a not so flattering light.
>
> This is the 40th anniversary year of Chez Panisse, and oh how I wish I
> could afford to go to one of the dinners being held this August at the
> restaurant.
>
> There have been some other books written about those times. Jeramiah
> Tower's book California Dish is one such, but it tends to be a bit
> snide sometimes. Tower has/had a towering ego (no pun intended), but
> he was considered a damn fine cook, and he is one such that helped put
> Chez Panisse on the map. I moved to the bay area in 1985 when his
> restaurant Stars was becoming one of the top spots in town. I wish I
> taken the chance to go to that restaurant when it was open.
>
> One of the most influential people in that whole time period was an
> American expatriate, Richard Olney. He influenced Alice, Jeramiah,
> Kermit Lynch, and a whole host of people that were in that food circle
> and who were putting California cuisine on the map. He was a
> continuing influence on the restaurant up until the time he died, and
> probably even now. His ideas about good food and cooking were some of
> the guiding principles of that restaurant.
>
> Another interesting author to read about all this is Ruth Reichl..who
> was living in Berkeley during the first years of Chez Panisse, and who
> counted a number of folks who were "developing" this cuisine as her
> close friends.
>
> I have been so interested in all of this since I first moved to the
> east bay back in 1985. I had gotten The Chez Panisse Menu Cookbook
> only a year or so before that, and it fascinated me. I was also
> picking up books here and there from various folks that had passed
> through the kitchens of Chez Panisse, such as Deborah Madison, Joyce
> Goldstein, Mark Miller, Paul Bertolli, Joanne Weir, Lindsay Shere
> (the wonderful inaugural pastry chef of Chez Panisse), Victoria Wise
> and I forget who else. Oh, also Jeramiah's book from that era.
>
> The influence of Chez Panisse is still felt in the bay area. Acme
> Bread, which has such wonderful bread,is still roaring along. Steve
> Sullivan, who started that bakery, wasn't even a cook in the
> restaurant, but he worked there in Chez Panisse...and was influenced
> by all he encountered, to want to produce great bread. And succeed,
> he did. It is such a treat to go by Acme Bread there in Berkeley,
> when the fresh loaves are coming out of the oven. In that same
> little corner lot, is Kermit Lynch's wine shop, and Cafe Fanny, which
> was named for Alice Water's daughter.
>
> Hmm..now I am wanting to get up to Berkeley.. Maybe this week...
>
> Christine
>
>
What a great post, Christine. You bring out her warmth. Years ago I wandered
into the restaurant one day to ask about charcoal and Alice, who happened to
be in the dining room treated me like a neighbor, without knowing me. We ate
there a lot, in the old days. We really preferred the upstairs cafe with a
menu, rather than the prix fixe dinner downstairs. It's possible that
Jeremiah acted as the host there for awhile. Just after that he opened the
Santa Fe Bar and Grill in the old railroad station down on University Ave.
That became a favorite, though unfortunately it moved to and became Stars in
SF. I had forgotten about Victoria Wise. "Pig by the Tail" was the benchmark
charcuterie for "everywhere in the world" as far as we were concerned. We'd
call, reserve, and pick up the cassoulet. It was wonderful. I'm sure as you
well know, Victoria Wise has become quite a cookbook author. The Acme we
still hang out at. The last bake comes out at 2:30 and that's when you get a
warm baguette. We eat our first bite in the car on the way out the driveway.

There are a number of things that make the Bay Area very special. It's
beautiful. Then, and most important, it has the whole ethnic spectrum in the
world. Within 25 miles of downtown Sam Francisco you travel around the
world. And finally, it has magic people like Alice Waters.

Kent

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
eb.com...
> Christine wrote:
>
>> This is the 40th anniversary year of Chez Panisse, and oh how I wish I
>> could afford to go to one of the dinners being held this August at the
>> restaurant.
>
> At $2500 a head for the meal prepared by David Tanis, what if he served
> something you didn't like, were allergic to, or were unable to eat for
> some
> medical reason?
>
> It just so happens that I'll be on vacation from August 21 through
> September
> 6, so I *could* attend if I so chose. But I will allow this "opportunity"
> to
> pass, thankyouverymuch.
>
> I'd rather prepare a "Provencal feast" using local ingredients at my own
> house, thereby not only saving a colossal amount of money and following
> the
> precepts of "California cuisine", but avoiding the pandemonian
> cluster-****
> that is Berkeley traffic -- and not incidentally, also assuring myself of
> a
> meal I will enjoy, in company I can choose.
>
> Bob
>
We have the David Lance Goines poster celebrating Chez Panisse's 10th
birthday in 1981 in the back bathroom, on the wall assertively resting over
the "throne". The reason for all this that the 10th birthday party
celebration in 1981 was $25/person.

Kent

Bob Terwilliger > wrote:

[ $2500 a head ]

>Proceeds from the dinner go to the Chez Panisse Foundation, so diners will
>be able to pat themselves on the back for being so generous to charity --
>which is pretty much par for the course in Berkeley. That being said, the
>chefs and restaurant employees are not DONATING their services for the
>evening; I'm sure the guest chefs will be paid handsomely.
>
>Come to think of it, would you still tip somewhere in the 20% range for that
>dinner? (Cha-CHING!)

Chez Panisse imputes a 17.5% tip. (On all diners, not just larger
groups.) I see no reason why they would suspend this policy for the
special dinners.

For that money you could almost fly to Barcelona and try to go to
El Bulli in the next two weeks before it closes for good. Such
a plan would probably fail, but it's your only chance.

Tangentially traffic in Berkeley is not particularly bad, unless
there's a football game or something. Actually Cal home games
are for the time being in ATT park so you don't even have that issue.

Steve

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:32:28 -0700, "Kent" >
> wrote:
>
>
> We really preferred the upstairs cafe with a
>>menu, rather than the prix fixe dinner downstairs. It's possible that
>>Jeremiah acted as the host there for awhile. Just after that he opened
>>the
>>Santa Fe Bar and Grill in the old railroad station down on University Ave.
>>That became a favorite, though unfortunately it moved to and became Stars
>>in
>>SF.
>
> I ate at the Cafe about 9 years ago..maybe less. I was very
> impressed... If I could manage the steps, I would go back in a flash.
> But my knees just can't handle them anymore. I do consider going to
> the downstairs restaurant though. I would love to eat there before
> David Tanis leaves for good this fall.
>
> Jeremiah Tower was considered one of the pre-eminent chefs in the
> area. He didn't move the Santa Fe Bar and Grill, but he did leave it
> about the time I got to the bay area. He had already opened Stars.
> They are two separate restaurants, or were. I know. I ate at the
> Santa Fe Bar and Grill for my 50th birthday..a few years before it
> closed for good. Stars had closed before then.
>
> I had forgotten about Victoria Wise. "Pig by the Tail" was the
> benchmark
>>charcuterie for "everywhere in the world" as far as we were concerned.
>>We'd
>>call, reserve, and pick up the cassoulet. It was wonderful. I'm sure as
>>you
>>well know, Victoria Wise has become quite a cookbook author. The Acme we
>>still hang out at. The last bake comes out at 2:30 and that's when you get
>>a
>>warm baguette. We eat our first bite in the car on the way out the
>>driveway.
>
> Yes, I have some of her cookbooks, of which The Pig By The Tail
> Cookbook is one.
>
> Another place I forgot about was Cocolat. I was lucky enough to get
> there when it was still around, down the street from Chez Panisse. Oh
> what pastries. I have some of the books by Alice Medrich. I have
> tried to recreate some of the Cocolat desserts in the past.
>
> And I forgot another alumni of Chez Panisse..Judy Rodgers, who went on
> to be the proprietor of Zuni Cafe.
>
> Christine
> --
>
I had forgotten as well. We ate once or twice at Zuni.

Kent

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:32:28 -0700, "Kent" >
> wrote:
>
>
> We really preferred the upstairs cafe with a
>>menu, rather than the prix fixe dinner downstairs. It's possible that
>>Jeremiah acted as the host there for awhile. Just after that he opened
>>the
>>Santa Fe Bar and Grill in the old railroad station down on University Ave.
>>That became a favorite, though unfortunately it moved to and became Stars
>>in
>>SF.
>
> I ate at the Cafe about 9 years ago..maybe less. I was very
> impressed... If I could manage the steps, I would go back in a flash.
> But my knees just can't handle them anymore. I do consider going to
> the downstairs restaurant though. I would love to eat there before
> David Tanis leaves for good this fall.
>
> Jeremiah Tower was considered one of the pre-eminent chefs in the
> area. He didn't move the Santa Fe Bar and Grill, but he did leave it
> about the time I got to the bay area. He had already opened Stars.
> They are two separate restaurants, or were. I know. I ate at the
> Santa Fe Bar and Grill for my 50th birthday..a few years before it
> closed for good. Stars had closed before then.
>
> I had forgotten about Victoria Wise. "Pig by the Tail" was the
> benchmark
>>charcuterie for "everywhere in the world" as far as we were concerned.
>>We'd
>>call, reserve, and pick up the cassoulet. It was wonderful. I'm sure as
>>you
>>well know, Victoria Wise has become quite a cookbook author. The Acme we
>>still hang out at. The last bake comes out at 2:30 and that's when you get
>>a
>>warm baguette. We eat our first bite in the car on the way out the
>>driveway.
>
> Yes, I have some of her cookbooks, of which The Pig By The Tail
> Cookbook is one.
>
> Another place I forgot about was Cocolat. I was lucky enough to get
> there when it was still around, down the street from Chez Panisse. Oh
> what pastries. I have some of the books by Alice Medrich. I have
> tried to recreate some of the Cocolat desserts in the past.
>
> And I forgot another alumni of Chez Panisse..Judy Rodgers, who went on
> to be the proprietor of Zuni Cafe.
>
> Christine
> --
>
I'm chronically leary of restaurants with a single menu choice, as with Chez
Pannise downstairs. That's why we prefer upstairs, and it's also a bit less
formal, though the whole place is pretty informal.

We have been great fans of Michaell Wild's "Bay Wolf" restaurant for years.
Recently a prix fixe dinner there was disappointing. He has also closed at
lunch. Michael's salade nicoise was to die for, as is his cassoulet, the
latter only in the winter. I'm sure you have this, but if you don't"
http://cweb.ccclib.org/carlweb/jsp/D...&Search=Search

Michael Wild is getting right into the geezer phase of life, and I suspect
he's going to close in the next year or so. Bay Wolf is on Piedmont Ave.,
in Oakland, near the "factory heath center or Kaiser. I'm not being cynical.
Fundamentally I like the place.

Kent

"Sky" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/21/2011 3:45 AM, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>
>> At $2500 a head for the meal prepared by David Tanis, what if he served
>> something you didn't like, were allergic to, or were unable to eat for
>> some
>> medical reason?
>
> Good heavens, $2500 for a single meal for a person

You're paying for a name. A name which I don't recognize since I don't keep
up with "chefs". I wouldn't pay $2500 for a meal no matter who cooked it.
I don't care if they donate to charity... that's simply ridiculous. And as
Bob pointed out... what if you didn't like it? You can bet they aren't
going to give you your money back.

Jill

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 01:45:54 -0700, Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> Christine wrote:
>
>> This is the 40th anniversary year of Chez Panisse, and oh how I wish I
>> could afford to go to one of the dinners being held this August at the
>> restaurant.
>
> At $2500 a head for the meal prepared by David Tanis, what if he served
> something you didn't like, were allergic to, or were unable to eat for some
> medical reason?
>
> It just so happens that I'll be on vacation from August 21 through September
> 6, so I *could* attend if I so chose. But I will allow this "opportunity" to
> pass, thankyouverymuch.
>
> I'd rather prepare a "Provencal feast" using local ingredients at my own
> house, thereby not only saving a colossal amount of money and following the
> precepts of "California cuisine", but avoiding the pandemonian cluster-****
> that is Berkeley traffic -- and not incidentally, also assuring myself of a
> meal I will enjoy, in company I can choose.
>
> Bob

easy for you to say. i don't think i got the chops.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:48:48 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

> And I forgot another alumni of Chez Panisse..Judy Rodgers, who went on
> to be the proprietor of Zuni Cafe.

Zuni is still open and quite reasonably priced.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:31:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> For that money you could almost fly to Barcelona and try to go to
> El Bulli in the next two weeks before it closes for good. Such
> a plan would probably fail, but it's your only chance.

Oh, man. I thought it had already closed for good.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

In article >,
sf > wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:31:53 +0000 (UTC),
>(Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>> For that money you could almost fly to Barcelona and try to go to
>> El Bulli in the next two weeks before it closes for good. Such
>> a plan would probably fail, but it's your only chance.
>
>Oh, man. I thought it had already closed for good.

july 31.

Of course there is no way of getting in, at least I have no idea
what it would take.

S.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sky" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 7/21/2011 3:45 AM, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>>
>>> At $2500 a head for the meal prepared by David Tanis, what if he served
>>> something you didn't like, were allergic to, or were unable to eat for
>>> some
>>> medical reason?
>>
>> Good heavens, $2500 for a single meal for a person
>
> You're paying for a name. A name which I don't recognize since I don't
> keep up with "chefs". I wouldn't pay $2500 for a meal no matter who
> cooked it. I don't care if they donate to charity... that's simply
> ridiculous. And as Bob pointed out... what if you didn't like it? You
> can bet they aren't going to give you your money back.
>
> Jill
>
The profit goes to one of Alice Waters' not for profit or 501(c)3's.

Kent

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:28:53 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:25:13 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:48:48 -0700, Christine Dabney
> > wrote:
> >
> >> And I forgot another alumni of Chez Panisse..Judy Rodgers, who went on
> >> to be the proprietor of Zuni Cafe.
> >
> >Zuni is still open and quite reasonably priced.
>
> Okay, I want to go to Zuni.
>
It's a date! I'm wondering if we can preorder the chicken?

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 20:45:21 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
> >On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:31:53 +0000 (UTC),
> >(Steve Pope) wrote:
> >
> >> For that money you could almost fly to Barcelona and try to go to
> >> El Bulli in the next two weeks before it closes for good. Such
> >> a plan would probably fail, but it's your only chance.
> >
> >Oh, man. I thought it had already closed for good.
>
> july 31.
>
> Of course there is no way of getting in, at least I have no idea
> what it would take.
>
Catch me up because obviously, I'm behind.... it will then be a
culinary arts school or what?

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

sf > wrote:

[El Bulli]

>Catch me up because obviously, I'm behind.... it will then be a
>culinary arts school or what?

Undecided, so far as I can tell.


Steve

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:33:50 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 22:08:56 +0000 (UTC),
> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> >sf > wrote:
> >
> >[El Bulli]
> >
> >>Catch me up because obviously, I'm behind.... it will then be a
> >>culinary arts school or what?
> >
> >Undecided, so far as I can tell.
>
> It will become a research place, for the time being. At least this is
> what I have read.
>
> I will try to find the article I just read..
>
I should have mentioned that as a possibility too.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

blake wrote:

>> I'd rather prepare a "Provencal feast" using local ingredients at my own
>> house, thereby not only saving a colossal amount of money and following
>> the precepts of "California cuisine", but avoiding the pandemonian
>> cluster-**** that is Berkeley traffic -- and not incidentally, also
>> assuring myself of a meal I will enjoy, in company I can choose.
>
> easy for you to say. i don't think i got the chops.

Provencal cuisine is actually pretty easy to cook, and much of it uses
simple ingredients. Ratatouille is Provencal, for example. ****aladière is
Provencal; I made that for Christine's birthday dinner last year. Soupe au
pistou is Provence's version of minestrone, and is dead-simple to make.
Provence has a version of escabeche which is easy to make. I would *not*
want to make bouillabaisse because it requires too wide a variety of
difficult-to-get seafoods, and there would be an unreasonable amount of
leftovers. But a simple grilled rockfish with oursinade (sea urchin sauce)
would be feasible and authentic enough.

If I'm at home the evening of the Chez Panisse anniversary, I might cook a
Provencal dinner that night. But chances are good that Lin and I will be in
BC on that evening. (Could be British Columbia, could be Baja California.
Time will tell.)

I do have two specific meals I want to cook on my vacation. Several months
ago I was watching an old episode of "French Cooking At Home" (come to think
of it, *all* the episodes are old) and liked the idea of making a meal which
would highlight champagne. At first I thought I'd like to do that for my
birthday, but I changed my mind about that. I do still want to make the
"Champagne" meal on my vacation; here's the menu:

champagne
canapé BLT
asparagus
artichoke-sunflower soup
Market Strand meat loaf[1]
summer squash
tossed salad with verjus dressing
peach melba


Since my vacation time also includes my birthday, here's the menu I'm
planning for that occasion:

paloma rosa[2]
corn/avocado soup with kaffir lime leaves
lingcod seviche with nopales, fingerling potatoes, and olives
tomato-cucumber-melon salad with skewered shrimp
hibiscus-pork tamales
black bean pancakes with bananas and chamoy salsa[3]
cinnamon "tostada" with plum gelato & whipped mascarpone


Bob
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...26402bee9ac4b1
(I omit the gravy.)
[2] http://www.rickbayless.com/recipe/view?recipeID=163
[3] http://www.rickbayless.com/recipe/view?recipeID=179

sf wrote:

>>> Think of it as a nice write off. They can't deduct the cost of food,
>>> but they'll claim the rest at the end of the year.
>>
>> You mean as a business dinner or what?
>>
>> "How's business?"
>> "Great.".
>> "Good. Let me get that check."
>>
>> Actually I don't know how you separate the cost of food from other things
>> on a restaurant check.
>>
> No, a donation they write off at the end of the year as an itemized
> deduction.

How would that be legal, since the restaurant is *also* deducting that same
money as a charitable contribution?

Bob

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 19:03:34 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

> How would that be legal, since the restaurant is *also* deducting that same
> money as a charitable contribution?

I doubt Chez Panisse will off anything other than the cost of the food
and whatever else they can write off. The funds collected are pointed
to that charity, but the individuals who fork over the money will be
writing it off their own incomes. Otherwise, they won't be
"donating". They may have a lot of money, but they didn't get it by
being a fool.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 2011-07-21, Kent > wrote:

> well know, Victoria Wise has become quite a cookbook author. The Acme we
> still hang out at. The last bake comes out at 2:30 and that's when you get a
> warm baguette. We eat our first bite in the car on the way out the driveway.

I've never understood the attraction of Acme bread. Perhaps they make
a few good breads, but along with La Brea and Grace (makes a passable
quiche), they've NEVER measured up in the SF sourdough catagory, IMO,
and I've been eating real SF sourdough for almost 60 yrs.

Colombo/Parisian/Toscana bakeries made the real deal, from a 150+ yr
old sponge. It was truly sour, with an authentic sourness that was
instantly discernable, both by smell and taste. I NEVER got even a
hint of that from the afore mentioned nouveau bread companies.
There's a bakery in Denver that makes SF style sourdough that's more
authentic than these pretenders. Perhaps if I'd tried some of their
other offerings, I'd be more enthusiastic, but I was so disappointed
by their pathetic efforts at SF sourdough, I never bothered.

Also, the sad fact that the bean counters essentially destroyed the
old classic sourdough bakeries, pehaps the new bakeries like Acme ARE
the new standard. I know Colombo and the others were swallowed up,
first by Hostess (ABC), then resold so many time, it's hard to tell
who owns them, now. Last I heard, Grupo Bimbo, the Mexican
conglomerate. And, sadly, I could taste the steadily creeping decline
in those classic big Colombo rounds in the white bag, labeled
Fisherman's Wharf SF Sourdough, even in the superior restaurant grade
loaves. Last time I had a good one was about 2 yrs before I moved.
Even the restaurant that used to sell them to me quit buying Colombo
cuz of reduced delivery schedules and poor quality and found another
inferior, but more reliable, vendor. So sad.

nb

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:08:43 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

> I take them on their own merit, for being good on their own, and I
> don't compare them to SF style sourdough.

Mainly, notbob and I are lamenting the demise of real San Francisco
sourdough. It's hard to find these days and when it's right - 9 times
out of 10, it wasn't baked in San Francisco.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 2011-07-22, Christine Dabney > wrote:

> Acme and the other new bread companies aren't attempting to recreate
> SF sourdough bread.

That's readily apparent.

> I take them on their own merit, for being good on their own, and I
> don't compare them to SF style sourdough.

The same can be said of Wonder Bread. Regardless, I'm so
very happy for you.

nb

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:35:11 -0700, Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> blake wrote:
>
>>> I'd rather prepare a "Provencal feast" using local ingredients at my own
>>> house, thereby not only saving a colossal amount of money and following
>>> the precepts of "California cuisine", but avoiding the pandemonian
>>> cluster-**** that is Berkeley traffic -- and not incidentally, also
>>> assuring myself of a meal I will enjoy, in company I can choose.
>>
>> easy for you to say. i don't think i got the chops.
>
> Provencal cuisine is actually pretty easy to cook, and much of it uses
> simple ingredients. Ratatouille is Provencal, for example.

that at least i've made. probably a good time to do it agian.

your pal,
blake

Sqwertz > wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:31:53 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:

>>>Come to think of it, would you still tip somewhere in the 20% range for that
>>>dinner? (Cha-CHING!)
>>
>> Chez Panisse imputes a 17.5% tip. (On all diners, not just larger
>> groups.) I see no reason why they would suspend this policy for the
>> special dinners.

>I can't tip a server almost $500 when $2000 of the cost of the dinner
>is going to charity. And the server should not be profiting $10,000+
>(serves 20 people a night) off of what is a charitable event.

I remember once ordering a $105 bottle of wine from CP once, and seeing
the waitstaff's eyes light up at the certainty of receiving an extra
$20 tip.

(Ironically, we had sold them that bottle of wine several years previously.)

>I can't justify tipping a server $500 no matter what. They are not
>involved in the making the food. His job is no different if I order
>the gourmet hamburger with cheese at $22.50 or the surf and turf at
>$129.95.

I certainly like the flexibility of not having an imputed tip,
so that the tip level can be merit-based, although one could argue if
you can afford the $2500 dinner you could affort the imputed tip.


Steve

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 16:53:23 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:31:53 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>
>> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>>
>>>Come to think of it, would you still tip somewhere in the 20% range for that
>>>dinner? (Cha-CHING!)
>>
>> Chez Panisse imputes a 17.5% tip. (On all diners, not just larger
>> groups.) I see no reason why they would suspend this policy for the
>> special dinners.
>
> I can't tip a server almost $500 when $2000 of the cost of the dinner
> is going to charity. And the server should not be profiting $10,000+
> (serves 20 people a night) off of what is a charitable event.
>
> I can't justify tipping a server $500 no matter what. They are not
> involved in the making the food. His job is no different if I order
> the gourmet hamburger with cheese at $22.50 or the surf and turf at
> $129.95.
>
> -sw

it might not make sense, but it's the custom.

your pal,
blake

Steve wrote:

> I will never dine at a restaurant automatically charges you a set tip in
> the first place. The whole idea of that is wrong.

What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?

Bob

Bob Terwilliger > wrote:

>What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
>the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?

How exactly does that work?


Steve

Steve wrote:

>> What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
>> the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?
>
> How exactly does that work?

It's a fixed-price menu. One fee pays for food and service.

Bob

"Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>
>>What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
>>the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?
>
> How exactly does that work?

The same way it works in Italy, although you can't make Americans believe
it.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:16:06 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
>"Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>>
>>>What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
>>>the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?
>>
>> How exactly does that work?
>
>The same way it works in Italy, although you can't make Americans believe
>it.

Of course Americans believe it, and they know that's why the service
in Italy is atrocious, there is no incentive to behave civilized. The
only ones who complain about tipping are the cheapo *******s who
expect free service because they were raised spoiled with their
parents kissing their asses. Italian culture is one of the most
uncivilized on the planet... more pick pockets, petty thieves, whores,
and child molesters per capita than anywhere else. When the tip is
calculated into the menu price that just fills the proprietor's
coffers above and beyond that of their already outrageous prices...
the servers don't see a full measure of that revenue, plus they lose
their dignity by having their incentive to work to full capacity taken
away. Withot tipping servers are relegated to performing at that of
the lowest common denominator. Service in the US is better than
anywhere else... only the cheapo *******s would argue differently
because poor service is what the stingy experience. Experienced
service personel are expert in immediately sizing up what kind of
treatment and tip to expect from the patrons they encounter... abusive
degrading loudmouths demand the most and tip the least. There's good
reason why finer eateries employ a maître de, their primary purpose is
to separate the wheat from the chaff and to signal the staff. Tips
are a blessing, To Insure Proper Service.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:17:42 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:16:06 +0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:
>>>
>>>>What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
>>>>the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?
>>>
>>> How exactly does that work?
>>
>>The same way it works in Italy, although you can't make Americans believe
>>it.
>
> Of course Americans believe it, and they know that's why the service
> in Italy is atrocious, there is no incentive to behave civilized. The
> only ones who complain about tipping are the cheapo *******s who
> expect free service because they were raised spoiled with their
> parents kissing their asses. Italian culture is one of the most
> uncivilized on the planet... more pick pockets, petty thieves, whores,
> and child molesters per capita than anywhere else.

christ, you're boring.

blake

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:21:58 -0700 in rec.food.cooking, "Bob
Terwilliger" > wrote,
>Steve wrote:
>
>> I will never dine at a restaurant automatically charges you a set tip in
>> the first place. The whole idea of that is wrong.
>
>What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
>the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?

That's not a tip.

Giusi > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio

>> Bob Terwilliger > wrote:

>>>What about a place like The French Laundry, where the tip is not added to
>>>the bill but is part of the price of the dinner?

>> How exactly does that work?

>The same way it works in Italy, although you can't make Americans believe
>it.

Well, California has some pretty strict laws regarding tipping (to
protect the waitstaff) so I have trouble believing it works the same
way at the French Laundry as it does in Italy.

Steve