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Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a
promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy up the kitchen a bit. When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out into the simmering water. How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? |
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spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a >promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local >supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a >four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > >The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I >would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy >up the kitchen a bit. > >When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in >its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out >into the simmering water. > >How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is >tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? This is a sign of a sausage casing made from an artificial material. Look for natural-casing sausages. Steve |
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In article
>, spamtrap1888 > wrote: > Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a > promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local > supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a > four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > > The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > up the kitchen a bit. > > When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in > its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out > into the simmering water. > > How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is > tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? Place in pot, cover with cold water, heat until almost but not yet boiling. Turn off heat. Serve. (I am assuming it's skinless. If it has a skin, you might poke a few tiny holes in it although I've never had a skin split if it doesn't boil.) D.M. |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:04:17 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote: >Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a >promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local >supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a >four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > >The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I >would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy >up the kitchen a bit. > >When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in >its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out >into the simmering water. >How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is >tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? You weren't simmering with low enough heat... simmering dawgs requires NO bubbling whatsoever. Start dawgs in cold water, bring to just under a boil (do NOT boil) and lower heat to the lowest setting and cook for minimally one hour. If unsure of temperature use a thermometer, water temperature should not be higher than 185ºF. I've never cooked one dawg, I've never cooked less than the entire one pound/12 ounce package. Always start meat of any kind in cold water or it will sieze... no meat should ever be boiled. Knockwurst are better simmered in beer. |
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On Jul 23, 7:04*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a > promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local > supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a > four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > > The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > up the kitchen a bit. > > When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in > its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out > into the simmering water. You can use the water to make weenie water gravy. A little milk and corn starch is all you need to add. --Bryan |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:52:17 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote: >spamtrap1888 wrote: >> >> How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is >> tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? > >If it split, it had a casing. Real hotdogs don't >have casings. You're an idiot... real hotdogs have casings. There are natural casings and manmade casings, both will split. There are also skinless hot dogs, those won't split... but I don't consider those hotdogs. |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:59:21 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote: >Brooklyn1 wrote: >> >> I've >> never cooked one dawg, I've never cooked less than the entire one >> pound/12 ounce package. > >If he only want to eat one dog from a package >of already cooked dogs, why would he heat up >more than one? You wouldn't want a cold dildo up your dumb ass... |
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On 7/23/2011 2:04 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a > promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local > supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a > four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > > The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > up the kitchen a bit. > > When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in > its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out > into the simmering water. > > How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is > tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? Don't worry about it, most dogs will split if you boil it. I don't think that I've ever had a fully cooked sausage do that though. Weird. The good news is that a lot of the loss is fat and at least you won't get a blast of burning hot liquid into your face and mouth. That is no fun! |
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On Jul 23, 8:04*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a > promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local > supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a > four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > > The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > up the kitchen a bit. > > When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in > its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out > into the simmering water. > > How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is > tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? Relax. the flavor is mostly retained. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. |
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spamtrap1888 wrote:
> > How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is > tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? If it split, it had a casing. Real hotdogs don't have casings, by the time they reach the consumer. (They actually have cellulosic casings when cooked, but those are removed between cooking and packaging.) Microwave or a steamer may still result in splits, but it won't matter because the dog is not submerged. I suppose you could prick the casing to avoid splits, or put the hotdog in the water when it's cold and heat them up together. |
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Brooklyn1 wrote:
> > I've > never cooked one dawg, I've never cooked less than the entire one > pound/12 ounce package. If he only want to eat one dog from a package of already cooked dogs, why would he heat up more than one? |
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spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a > promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local > supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a > four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > > The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > up the kitchen a bit. > > When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in > its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out > into the simmering water. > > How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is > tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? The idea is to get them hot enough to taste good. If you put them in a pot, you can slide them into boiling water, then turn it down to the lowest setting for a little while. Or, you can start with the water cold and turn it off when it starts to simmer, then leave them for a while. Or you can microwave them (which may very well split them). Or, if you have a deep frier, you can toss them in until they split magnificently. In New Jersey, I understand these are known as "splitters". A knackwurst is kind of big--regular franks are a little easier to heat (since they're half the thickness, they take a quarter the time). But they taste good no matter what. You can grill or pan fry them too, but that's more trouble. Mike Beede |
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In article
>, spamtrap1888 > wrote: > How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is > tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? If it's fully cooked, no reason you can't nuke it. Or grill it. My husband doesn't think they're ready to eat until they're black and have split. -- Barb, http://web.me.com/barbschaller July 19, 2011 - Pickled Boiled Dirt Chunks |
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article > >, > spamtrap1888 > wrote: > >> How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is >> tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? > > If it's fully cooked, no reason you can't nuke it. Or grill it. My > husband doesn't think they're ready to eat until they're black and have > split. That's my attitude too. I eat one hot dog perhaps every few years and if I have to have one then I'd rather have it charred up. Ketchup and mustard, maybe a little relish, thanks. |
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![]() "spamtrap1888" > wrote in message ... > Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a > promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local > supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a > four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > > The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > up the kitchen a bit. > > When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in > its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out > into the simmering water. > > How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is > tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? I would just put that in the microwave. |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 21:41:18 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote: >In article >, > spamtrap1888 > wrote: > >> How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is >> tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? > >If it's fully cooked, no reason you can't nuke it. Or grill it. My >husband doesn't think they're ready to eat until they're black and have >split. A friend used to recite; 'If they're brown their cooked-- if they're black they're done." [I like the streaks myself- I eat my 3-4 dogs a year off the grill] Jim |
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![]() "Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message ... > On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 21:41:18 -0500, Melba's Jammin' > > wrote: > >>In article >, >> spamtrap1888 > wrote: >> >>> How long can I simmer a hot-doggy-type sausage, and if simmering is >>> tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? >> >>If it's fully cooked, no reason you can't nuke it. Or grill it. My >>husband doesn't think they're ready to eat until they're black and have >>split. > > A friend used to recite; > 'If they're brown their cooked-- if they're black they're done." > [I like the streaks myself- I eat my 3-4 dogs a year off the grill] > > Jim Natural casing dogs are great well done on the grill. |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:59:21 -0800, Mark Thorson wrote:
> Brooklyn1 wrote: >> >> I've >> never cooked one dawg, I've never cooked less than the entire one >> pound/12 ounce package. > > If he only want to eat one dog from a package > of already cooked dogs, why would he heat up > more than one? because sheldon is a ****ing nut case, that's why. or maybe he feeds his horde of cats hot dogs (in their museum-quality bowls). your pal, blake |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 21:19:45 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:59:21 -0800, Mark Thorson > > wrote: > >>Brooklyn1 wrote: >>> >>> I've >>> never cooked one dawg, I've never cooked less than the entire one >>> pound/12 ounce package. >> >>If he only want to eat one dog from a package >>of already cooked dogs, why would he heat up >>more than one? > > You wouldn't want a cold dildo up your dumb ass... can't stop thinking about anal sex, can you, sheldon? blake |
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On 07/24/2011 08:04 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? I bought a Hot Dogger (!) at a garage sale for $1 and showed it to my daughter. Not brave enough to plug it in yet. Showed my college-age daughter and she was shocked that a hotdog electrocution device was ever for sale in a 1st-world nation. -- frater mus http://www.mousetrap.net/mouse/ |
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
My > husband doesn't think they're ready to eat until they're black and > have split. I rarely eat them but that's how I like mine, with deli mustard, onion and relish. Dora |
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On 7/24/2011 9:24 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 7/24/2011 2:00 PM, Dora wrote: >> Melba's Jammin' wrote: >> My >>> husband doesn't think they're ready to eat until they're black and >>> have split. >>>> I rarely eat them but that's how I like mine, with deli mustard, onion >> and relish. >> >> Dora >> > Hot dogs are pretty good simmered in beer, > I have heard this. Our friends invited us over for a cookout. They had hot dogs prepared this way. I wanted to be cool and not make a rush for the hot dogs but hesitated too long and then there were none. The steak was pretty good but I was bummed that I never got a chance to try this specialty of white folk cuisine. This was over a decade ago but I still have some regrets for dilly-dallying to this day. :-) |
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spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > up the kitchen a bit. One of the major components of hot dogs are Wiener- or Frankfurter-type sausages, which are indeed fully cooked. So, what such sausages need, is just heating up, by means of your choice, but preferably in water. *Good* sausages of this type are all in natural casings - anything else belongs in the trash. Sausages in natural casings will always split if exposed to too much heat for too long, so, to prevent this, one has to be extra careful. If split, they will lose much of their juice - and much of their attraction, unless the splitting occurs in a soup or some other dish which will benefit from that juice - and this will still not be the best way of using this delicate type of sausage.. I've posted about the matter befo <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/74df0dc2bffeae16> and <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/d79e5219e18bb174> Victor |
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Victor wrote:
> what such sausages need, is just heating up, by means of your choice, but > preferably in water. That's a matter of taste, and I happen to disagree. To my tastes, the sausages are best heated in an oven until crisp. I think grilling dries them out too much, and heating in water will never result in that crisp texture. Bob |
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:44:07 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:
> On 7/24/2011 9:24 AM, James Silverton wrote: > >> > > Hot dogs are pretty good simmered in beer, > > > > I have heard this. Our friends invited us over for a cookout. They had > hot dogs prepared this way. I wanted to be cool and not make a rush for > the hot dogs but hesitated too long and then there were none. The steak > was pretty good but I was bummed that I never got a chance to try this > specialty of white folk cuisine. This was over a decade ago but I still > have some regrets for dilly-dallying to this day. :-) I've never had hot dogs that way either, but I thought the beer was just a way to keep them warm *after* they'd been grilled - not the vehicle to cook them (technically - not to cook, but to heat them up). -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:48:20 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote: > Victor wrote: > > > what such sausages need, is just heating up, by means of your choice, but > > preferably in water. > > That's a matter of taste, and I happen to disagree. To my tastes, the > sausages are best heated in an oven until crisp. I think grilling dries them > out too much, and heating in water will never result in that crisp texture. > I've never heard of... much less even thought of doing them in an oven. How long and at what temperature? -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
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sf wrote:
>>> what such sausages need, is just heating up, by means of your choice, >>> but preferably in water. >> >> That's a matter of taste, and I happen to disagree. To my tastes, the >> sausages are best heated in an oven until crisp. I think grilling dries >> them out too much, and heating in water will never result in that crisp >> texture. >> > I've never heard of... much less even thought of doing them in an > oven. How long and at what temperature? I use 350°F, and it's until they have visibly browned but not *completely* browned. Usually half an hour or so. Bob |
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On Jul 24, 4:33*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:44:07 -1000, dsi1 > wrote: > > On 7/24/2011 9:24 AM, James Silverton wrote: > > > > Hot dogs are pretty good simmered in beer, > > > I have heard this. Our friends invited us over for a cookout. They had > > hot dogs prepared this way. I wanted to be cool and not make a rush for > > the hot dogs but hesitated too long and then there were none. The steak > > was pretty good but I was bummed that I never got a chance to try this > > specialty of white folk cuisine. This was over a decade ago but I still > > have some regrets for dilly-dallying to this day. :-) > > I've never had hot dogs that way either, but I thought the beer was > just a way to keep them warm *after* they'd been grilled - not the > vehicle to cook them (technically - not to cook, but to heat them up). > > -- > > Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. Actually, I don't know how one prepares hot dogs in beer. It's a mystery. |
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:56:05 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> wrote: > Actually, I don't know how one prepares hot dogs in beer. It's a > mystery. It was my understanding that the beer bath was a holding tank for grilled brats & dogs, but upon googling... I see there are actual *recipes* for it. Who knew? I do remember seeing a point or origin method or recipe a long time ago... (looking) here it is - http://www.johnsonville.com/recipes/...t-hot-tub.html and now we know where Rachael got her "dip in the hot tub" phrase from. ![]() -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:46:47 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote: > I use 350°F, and it's until they have visibly browned but not *completely* > browned. Usually half an hour or so. Thanks, I think I'll try that and see how it goes. I usually just roll them around in a skillet. We're still talking about hot dogs, correct? I love the snap of natural casings when you bite into them. -- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
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sf wrote:
>> I use 350°F, and it's until they have visibly browned but not >> *completely* browned. Usually half an hour or so. > > Thanks, I think I'll try that and see how it goes. I usually just > roll them around in a skillet. We're still talking about hot dogs, > correct? I love the snap of natural casings when you bite into them. Yes, I mean hot dogs, though of course the same technique would work for other link sausages. Bob |
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On Jul 24, 5:39*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:56:05 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 > > > wrote: > > Actually, I don't know how one prepares hot dogs in beer. It's a > > mystery. > > It was my understanding that the beer bath was a holding tank for > grilled brats & dogs, but upon googling... I see there are actual > *recipes* for it. *Who knew? *I do remember seeing a point or origin > method or recipe a long time ago... (looking) here it is -http://www.johnsonville.com/recipes/af/brat-hot-tub.html > and now we know where Rachael got her "dip in the hot tub" phrase > from. * ![]() > > -- > > Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. Sounds like a good deal to me! |
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On Jul 24, 12:58*pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:55:34 -0700 (PDT), Bryan wrote: > > You can use the water to make weenie water gravy. *A little milk and > > corn starch is all you need to add. > > And you criticize others for their tastes? I was joking, Steve. If you'd thought about it, you'd have realized that. The poor Whites in St. Louis make that. They're the same folks who enjoy fried baloney on white bread with American (process) cheese. > > It's a regular bowl of mixed nuts in here. And both of us are in the mix. > > -sw --Bryan |
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On Jul 23, 7:55*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Jul 23, 7:04*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote: > > > Trying to feed myself while my wife is at her mother's, I noticed a > > promotional display of hot doggy-type sausages at the local > > supermarket. Eschewing the bratwurst and the "polish," I picked up a > > four-pack of what I used to call knackwurst. > > > The only directions on the package are "Fully cooked." So I thought I > > would simmer one on top of the stove for lunch, and proceeded to tidy > > up the kitchen a bit. > > > When I turned back to the stove, the sausage had a serious split in > > its side, and presumably much of the seasoned goodness had leached out > > into the simmering water. > > You can use the water to make weenie water gravy. *A little milk and > corn starch is all you need to add. > > --Bryan Flour, Bryan, not corn starch! And preferably add the flour so as to produce as many lumps in the Weenie Water Gravy as possible! The lumps are like little dumplings! ;-) John Kuthe... |
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On 7/24/2011 10:56 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Jul 24, 4:33 pm, > wrote: >> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:44:07 -1000, > wrote: >>> On 7/24/2011 9:24 AM, James Silverton wrote: >> >>>> Hot dogs are pretty good simmered in beer, >> >>> I have heard this. Our friends invited us over for a cookout. They had >>> hot dogs prepared this way. I wanted to be cool and not make a rush for >>> the hot dogs but hesitated too long and then there were none. The steak >>> was pretty good but I was bummed that I never got a chance to try this >>> specialty of white folk cuisine. This was over a decade ago but I still >>> have some regrets for dilly-dallying to this day. :-) >> >> I've never had hot dogs that way either, but I thought the beer was >> just a way to keep them warm *after* they'd been grilled - not the >> vehicle to cook them (technically - not to cook, but to heat them up). >> >> -- >> >> Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. > > Actually, I don't know how one prepares hot dogs in beer. It's a > mystery. Not that grilled hot dogs are unpleasant but all one does is immerse the dogs in beer and simmer for 10 minutes or so. Incidentally, beer-simmered dogs can also be grilled quickly afterwards so you can ring the changes. I don't think I'd keep grilled hot dogs warm in beer because that would destroy the crisp grilled texture. -- James Silverton, Potomac I'm *not* |
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On 7/24/2011 9:33 PM, sf wrote:
> I've never had hot dogs that way either, but I thought the beer was > just a way to keep them warm*after* they'd been grilled - not the > vehicle to cook them (technically - not to cook, but to heat them up). Back in the 70's, there was a restaurant chain called Lums that cooked their hot dogs in beer. I lived in Wisconsin at the time and cooking sausages in beer was pretty common. We would coarsely cut up a couple of onions and put in a pot... add the bratwurst (or hot dogs) and a can of beer. Pabst Blue Ribbon was cheap. Heat slowly until the brats were almost done. Remove the brats and finish them on a grill. Remove the onions and finish them in a hot frying pan with a little butter. Good stuff. George L |
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On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 07:32:17 -0500, George Leppla
> wrote: >On 7/24/2011 9:33 PM, sf wrote: >> I've never had hot dogs that way either, but I thought the beer was >> just a way to keep them warm*after* they'd been grilled - not the >> vehicle to cook them (technically - not to cook, but to heat them up). > > >Back in the 70's, there was a restaurant chain called Lums that cooked >their hot dogs in beer. I lived in Wisconsin at the time and cooking >sausages in beer was pretty common. > >We would coarsely cut up a couple of onions and put in a pot... add the >bratwurst (or hot dogs) and a can of beer. Pabst Blue Ribbon was cheap. > >Heat slowly until the brats were almost done. Remove the brats and >finish them on a grill. Remove the onions and finish them in a hot >frying pan with a little butter. > >Good stuff. Butter? blech |
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On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 01:10:12 +0800, fratermus
> wrote: >On 07/24/2011 08:04 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote: > >> tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? > >I bought a Hot Dogger (!) at a garage sale for $1 and showed it to my >daughter. Not brave enough to plug it in yet. > >Showed my college-age daughter and she was shocked that a hotdog >electrocution device was ever for sale in a 1st-world nation. That's got to be one of the dumbest kitchen toys ever made. Lou |
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On 7/25/2011 11:06 AM, Lou Decruss wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 01:10:12 +0800, fratermus > > wrote: > >> On 07/24/2011 08:04 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote: >> >>> tricky, what is the best way to heat them up? >> >> I bought a Hot Dogger (!) at a garage sale for $1 and showed it to my >> daughter. Not brave enough to plug it in yet. >> >> Showed my college-age daughter and she was shocked that a hotdog >> electrocution device was ever for sale in a 1st-world nation. > > That's got to be one of the dumbest kitchen toys ever made. > I don't think they are legal anymore and, in any case, they tended to burn the ends of the dogs. -- James Silverton, Potomac I'm *not* |
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