"Kalmia" > wrote
>
> If the wifelet allowed to carry some small amount of cash? I'm half-
> joking, but half wondering too.

Of course she is allowed to, but rarely does; her choice. She does not like
to drive and thus, rarely even carries her wallet with her when we go out.
When we go shopping, she never takes money knowing I'll pay for what she
wants and that she is never denied anything.

When we go on vacation, she carries maybe a third to half the cash in case
of a pickpocket etc.

"John Kuthe" > wrote
>
> And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>
> John Kuthe,...

No reason the percentage should go up. If the restaurant raises prices, the
staff gets a raise. OTOH, as the cost of a meal goes down, I tend to tip a
bit higher. Perhaps 50% or more on a coffee and pastry.

John Kuthe wrote:
> On Jul 24, 4:57 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> On Jul 24, 2:05 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>>
>>> ...
>>
>>>> Some wait staff make it difficult to tip them.
>>
>>>> The other night my wife and I were out doing a few errands so we
>>>> stopped for a sandwich at a chain type restaurant. The bill for
>>>> the twoof us came
>>>> to $17.50 plus tax, or $18.63. An appropriate tip would be about
>>>> $3.00 to
>>>> $3.50
>>
>>>> I reached in my pocked and had some twentys, two singles and a
>>>> five. I put a twenty and a five in the check folder. The waitress
>>>> asked "do you need change?" and I replied "yes" She took the money
>>>> and came back a little later with a few coins, a single and the $5
>>>> bill.
>>
>>>> So. . . . . . Instead of getting a $3.50 tip, she got the two
>>>> singles and some coins. The place was busy and she disappeared. I
>>>> did not feel responsible to wait around and chase her for more
>>>> change, but she would have had more in her pocket at the end of
>>>> the night. I thought a good waiter/waitress always made sure the
>>>> customer had enough bills to leave a
>>>> tip. I did not feel it worth $5 to bring a sandwich and soda.
>>
>>> A 15% tip would have been 2.63. Round it up to 2.65 and that's
>>> plenty of tip for schlepping a sandwhich to a table. Perhaps she
>>> wanted a tip for each plate? They think that way. I get really
>>> tired of wait staff who expect me to pay their rent for them just
>>> because they refilled my coffee cup.
>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Cheapskate!! I don't go out to eat specifically because I am
>> unemployed and don't have a lot of $$. When I'm working and go out to
>> eat I am "sharing the wealth". If you go out to eat and whinge about
>> tipping the wait staff you obviously don't realize or care that many
>> rely heavily on tips for their income. Going out to eat is expensive,
>> and if you can afford it you should also afford to adequately support
>> the waitstaff! Either that or stay home and eat!
>>
>> I love being able to tip well!
>>
>> The only time I tip more is when the wait person is worked more as
>> in when the party of diners is larger. Then they earn it. Otherwise,
>> 15% is generous. I am a generous tipper but onlo when the wait
>> person goes above and beyond. Just meeting minimums and not spitting
>> on the food does not earn them anything extra.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Wow!! And YOU don't quote at all! You didn't write all of that. The
> first parts I wrote. But how would anyone know that?
>
> And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!

I always give 20%, usually more but we usually order special food.

On Jul 24, 6:19*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "John Kuthe" > wrote
>
>
>
> > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>
> > John Kuthe,...
>
> No reason the percentage should go up. *If the restaurant raises prices, the
> staff gets a raise. *OTOH, as the cost of a meal goes down, I tend to tip a
> bit higher. *Perhaps 50% or more on a coffee and pastry.

Ed, you are truly clueless. You've never worked food service, have
you?

You get exactly the kind of service you deserve too! Hope they spit on
your dessert!

John Kuthe...

"Julie Bove" wrote:
>
>I always give 20%, usually more but we usually order special food.

I know where you can be served a 40 # bale of special hay for $3.50.

On 24/07/2011 8:46 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> "Julie Bove" wrote:
>>
>> I always give 20%, usually more but we usually order special food.
>
> I know where you can be served a 40 # bale of special hay for $3.50.

And it is gluten free.

On Jul 24, 5:35*pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>
> ....
> On Jul 24, 4:57 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "John Kuthe" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On Jul 24, 2:05 pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
> > > "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > Some wait staff make it difficult to tip them.
>
> > > > The other night my wife and I were out doing a few errands so we
> > > > stopped
> > > > for a sandwich at a chain type restaurant. The bill for the twoof us
> > > > came
> > > > to $17.50 plus tax, or $18.63. An appropriate tip would be about $3..00
> > > > to
> > > > $3.50
>
> > > > I reached in my pocked and had some twentys, two singles and a five.. I
> > > > put a twenty and a five in the check folder. The waitress asked "do
> > > > you
> > > > need change?" and I replied "yes" She took the money and came back a
> > > > little later with a few coins, a single and the $5 bill.
>
> > > > So. . . . . . Instead of getting a $3.50 tip, she got the two singles
> > > > and some coins. The place was busy and she disappeared. I did not feel
> > > > responsible to wait around and chase her for more change, but she
> > > > would
> > > > have had more in her pocket at the end of the night. I thought a good
> > > > waiter/waitress always made sure the customer had enough bills to
> > > > leave
> > > > a
> > > > tip. I did not feel it worth $5 to bring a sandwich and soda.
>
> > > A 15% tip would have been 2.63. Round it up to 2.65 and that's plenty of
> > > tip for schlepping a sandwhich to a table. Perhaps she wanted a tip for
> > > each plate? They think that way. I get really tired of wait staff who
> > > expect me to pay their rent for them just because they refilled my
> > > coffee
> > > cup.
>
> > > Paul
>
> > Cheapskate!! I don't go out to eat specifically because I am
> > unemployed and don't have a lot of $$. When I'm working and go out to
> > eat I am "sharing the wealth". If you go out to eat and whinge about
> > tipping the wait staff you obviously don't realize or care that many
> > rely heavily on tips for their income. Going out to eat is expensive,
> > and if you can afford it you should also afford to adequately support
> > the waitstaff! Either that or stay home and eat!
>
> > I love being able to tip well!
>
> > The only time I tip more is when the wait person is worked more as in when
> > the party of diners is larger. Then they earn it. Otherwise, 15% is
> > generous. I am a generous tipper but onlo when the wait person goes above
> > and beyond. Just meeting minimums and not spitting on the food does not
> > earn them anything extra.
>
> > Paul
>
> Wow!! And YOU don't quote at all! You didn't write all of that. The
> first parts I wrote. But how would anyone know that?
>
> Well the problem actually is your software. *I assume some people can follow
> a thread but I'm probably being too generous.
>
> And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>
> So who makes these rules? *Why is it they so deserve tips? *Why don;'t we
> also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? *It's called
> a gratuity. *Not a compulsity.
>
> Paul

Still not quoting, I see. Go to a Netiquette class, please!

John Kuthe...

On Jul 24, 5:54*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> On 24/07/2011 6:35 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> * thread but I'm probably being too generous.
>
>
>
> > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>
> > So who makes these rules? *Why is it they so deserve tips? *Why don;'t we
> > also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? *It's called
> > a gratuity. *Not a compulsity.
>
> Hold on a sec...... who is writing what here?
....

Exactly. Dave Smith can't or won't quote a previous post's text. He
makes it look like his own.

John Kuthe...

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
> On Jul 24, 6:19 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>> "John Kuthe" > wrote
>>
>>
>>
>> > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>>
>> > John Kuthe,...
>>
>> No reason the percentage should go up. If the restaurant raises prices,
>> the
>> staff gets a raise. OTOH, as the cost of a meal goes down, I tend to tip
>> a
>> bit higher. Perhaps 50% or more on a coffee and pastry.
>
> Ed, you are truly clueless. You've never worked food service, have
> you?
>
> You get exactly the kind of service you deserve too! Hope they spit on
> your dessert!
>
> John Kuthe...

I've never worked food service, but I have worked on commission. The
percentage was fixed. A hundred dollar sale got me $5. A $10,000 sale got
me $500. Guess where I put my efforts. The commission rate did not change
for decades, but I always made more money each year. A ham sandwich used
to be $1.50. Now it is $7.95. Waiter gets 1.20 instead of a quarter

As for your dessert comment, you just showed your wonderful personality.
I'd never want to wait on you.

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
> "Julie Bove" wrote:
>>
>>I always give 20%, usually more but we usually order special food.
>
> I know where you can be served a 40 # bale of special hay for $3.50.

I do too but not that kind of special.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
> wrote:

> On Jul 24, 5:54*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> > On 24/07/2011 6:35 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> > * thread but I'm probably being too generous.
> >
> >
> >
> > > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
> >
> > > So who makes these rules? *Why is it they so deserve tips? *Why don;'t we
> > > also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? *It's called
> > > a gratuity. *Not a compulsity.
> >
> > Hold on a sec...... who is writing what here?
> ...
>
> Exactly. Dave Smith can't or won't quote a previous post's text. He
> makes it look like his own.
>
I don't think he's doing it on purpose; but I hate it when people use
those defective news readers because it makes it very difficult to
follow who said what.


--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Jul 24, 8:50*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 5:54*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:> On 24/07/2011 6:35 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> > * thread but I'm probably being too generous.
>
> > > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>
> > > So who makes these rules? *Why is it they so deserve tips? *Why don;'t we
> > > also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? *It's called
> > > a gratuity. *Not a compulsity.
>
> > Hold on a sec...... who is writing what here?
>
> ...
>
> Exactly. Dave Smith can't or won't quote a previous post's text. He
> makes it look like his own.
>
> John Kuthe...

==
John it must be your software as all the sentences have the proper
attribution marks and I can follow the conversation easily. I am using
Firefox through Google Groups.
==

On Jul 24, 9:49*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 5:35*pm, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>
> > Wow!! And YOU don't quote at all! You didn't write all of that. The
> > first parts I wrote. But how would anyone know that?
>
> > Well the problem actually is your software. *I assume some people can follow
> > a thread but I'm probably being too generous.
>
> > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>
> > So who makes these rules? *Why is it they so deserve tips? *Why don;'t we
> > also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? *It's called
> > a gratuity. *Not a compulsity.
>
> > Paul
>
> Still not quoting, I see. Go to a Netiquette class, please!
>
> John Kuthe...

>
>
No, he's not quoting.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
> > wrote:
>
>> On Jul 24, 5:54 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
>> > On 24/07/2011 6:35 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> > thread but I'm probably being too generous.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>> >
>> > > So who makes these rules? Why is it they so deserve tips? Why don;'t
>> > > we
>> > > also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? It's
>> > > called
>> > > a gratuity. Not a compulsity.
>> >
>> > Hold on a sec...... who is writing what here?
>> ...
>>
>> Exactly. Dave Smith can't or won't quote a previous post's text. He
>> makes it look like his own.
>>
> I don't think he's doing it on purpose; but I hate it when people use
> those defective news readers because it makes it very difficult to
> follow who said what.

What makes you think the newsreaders are defective?

On 24/07/2011 11:44 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
> > wrote:
>
>> On Jul 24, 5:54 pm, Dave > wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2011 6:35 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> thread but I'm probably being too generous.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>>>
>>>> So who makes these rules? Why is it they so deserve tips? Why don;'t we
>>>> also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? It's called
>>>> a gratuity. Not a compulsity.
>>>
>>> Hold on a sec...... who is writing what here?
>> ...
>>
>> Exactly. Dave Smith can't or won't quote a previous post's text. He
>> makes it look like his own.
>>
> I don't think he's doing it on purpose; but I hate it when people use
> those defective news readers because it makes it very difficult to
> follow who said what.
>


I wasn't doing it. I pointed it out.
Don't worry about Kuthe. He has already proved himself and idiot with
his penchant for posting a running tally on the number of posts in
threads he doesn't like.

On 24/07/2011 10:54 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>>> No reason the percentage should go up. If the restaurant raises
>>> prices, the
>>> staff gets a raise. OTOH, as the cost of a meal goes down, I tend to
>>> tip a
>>> bit higher. Perhaps 50% or more on a coffee and pastry.
>>
>> Ed, you are truly clueless. You've never worked food service, have
>> you?
>>
>> You get exactly the kind of service you deserve too! Hope they spit on
>> your dessert!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
> I've never worked food service, but I have worked on commission. The
> percentage was fixed. A hundred dollar sale got me $5. A $10,000 sale
> got me $500. Guess where I put my efforts. The commission rate did not
> change for decades, but I always made more money each year. A ham
> sandwich used to be $1.50. Now it is $7.95. Waiter gets 1.20 instead of
> a quarter


The needle on the irony meter was bouncing off the end of the scale when
he answered your insightful comment by saying that you don't have a
clue. It is displays of ignorance like that which demonstrate why some
people are stuck in menial positions. They are too stupid to get a
better paying job. They aren't bright enough to realize that that a
constant percentage amounts to more money when the bill is higher. Most
other workers have to depend on pleading with their bosses for raise, or
collective bargaining. People who work on commission and tips basically
get a raise every time the menu prices are adjusted.
>
> As for your dessert comment, you just showed your wonderful personality.
> I'd never want to wait on you.

On Jul 24, 10:52*pm, Roy > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 8:50*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 24, 5:54*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:> On 24/07/2011 6:35 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> > > * thread but I'm probably being too generous.
>
> > > > And 15% is not even the min anymore, more like 20%. Get a clue!
>
> > > > So who makes these rules? *Why is it they so deserve tips? *Why don;'t we
> > > > also tip everyone else we come in contact with during the day? *It's called
> > > > a gratuity. *Not a compulsity.
>
> > > Hold on a sec...... who is writing what here?
>
> > ....
>
> > Exactly. Dave Smith can't or won't quote a previous post's text. He
> > makes it look like his own.
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> ==
> John it must be your software as all the sentences have the proper
> attribution marks and I can follow the conversation easily. I am using
> Firefox through Google Groups.
> ==

I am also using FF and GHooglegroups, and Dave's post had no '>'
preceding my text, which is the commonly accepted practice of quoting
the previous poster's text.

I will give him this though, at least he's not top posting! :-)

John Kuthe...

In article >,
says...
>
> On 24/07/2011 3:05 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
> > A 15% tip would have been 2.63. Round it up to 2.65 and that's plenty of
> > tip for schlepping a sandwhich to a table. Perhaps she wanted a tip for
> > each plate? They think that way. I get really tired of wait staff who
> > expect me to pay their rent for them just because they refilled my coffee
> > cup.
> >
>
> It's worse than that. They figure that if you can afford to go out for a
> meal, you can afford to tip. If you are in a nice restaurant with high
> prices, you can afford to pay an even higher percentage. It doesn't
> seem to occur to them that when you are paying higher prices and tipping
> the same percentage that you are already tipping more. As I said before,
> this is perhaps why they are destined to be waiters.

You know, do you not, that many of these people who are "destined to be
waiters" are college students trying to make ends meet or make some
spending money?

Those same "destined to be waiters" people might well be your boss in
ten years.

> It is not my nature
> to be rude and condescending to waiters, but some of them need to be
> tuned in.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
>The needle on the irony meter was bouncing off the end of the scale when
>he answered your insightful comment by saying that you don't have a
>clue. It is displays of ignorance like that which demonstrate why some
>people are stuck in menial positions. They are too stupid to get a
>better paying job. They aren't bright enough to realize that that a
>constant percentage amounts to more money when the bill is higher. Most
>other workers have to depend on pleading with their bosses for raise, or
>collective bargaining. People who work on commission and tips basically
>get a raise every time the menu prices are adjusted.

That's not necessarilly true. People in service occupations pretty
much dictate their own raises by working harder, more conscientiously,
and being more pleasant. There are unfortunately still many people
who refuse to tip those who perform a service even though they fully
know that service workers are otherwise not paid commisserate to the
work they perform. Tipping evolved so that wages are shared between
proprietor and patron since servers are employed by both, and in fact
it's the patron who is far more in receipt of the benefits and
therefore responsible for the greater share. Tipping insures maximum
rather than minimal service. Folks who don't want to tip service
staff are courteously invited to dine at the local cafeterias, roach
coaches, and vending machines. You can bet your bippee that folks who
resent tipping are verbally abusive of waitstaff and also treat their
parents and spouse likewise, and are generally obnoxious/douchebags.

On 25/07/2011 11:20 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

>>
>> It's worse than that. They figure that if you can afford to go out for a
>> meal, you can afford to tip. If you are in a nice restaurant with high
>> prices, you can afford to pay an even higher percentage. It doesn't
>> seem to occur to them that when you are paying higher prices and tipping
>> the same percentage that you are already tipping more. As I said before,
>> this is perhaps why they are destined to be waiters.
>
> You know, do you not, that many of these people who are "destined to be
> waiters" are college students trying to make ends meet or make some
> spending money?
>
> Those same "destined to be waiters" people might well be your boss in
> ten years.


Someone who ends up being my boss would not be one of those destined to
be waiters. As I have previously posted, waiting tables tends to be a
part time job or an entry level position for most people. Those
"destined to be waiters" might be exemplified by those who think that a
higher percentage dip should be expected because the cost of living has
risen.






>> It is not my nature
>> to be rude and condescending to waiters, but some of them need to be
>> tuned in.
>
>

On 25/07/2011 12:31 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> The needle on the irony meter was bouncing off the end of the scale when
>> he answered your insightful comment by saying that you don't have a
>> clue. It is displays of ignorance like that which demonstrate why some
>> people are stuck in menial positions. They are too stupid to get a
>> better paying job. They aren't bright enough to realize that that a
>> constant percentage amounts to more money when the bill is higher. Most
>> other workers have to depend on pleading with their bosses for raise, or
>> collective bargaining. People who work on commission and tips basically
>> get a raise every time the menu prices are adjusted.
>
> That's not necessarilly true. People in service occupations pretty
> much dictate their own raises by working harder, more conscientiously,
> and being more pleasant.


How is in not necessarily true? I specifically referred to a constant
percentage. If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would
have been $4.50. If that same meal is now $100, the tip is $15.
Inflation has impacted restaurant meals as much or more than a lot of
other things, so suggesting that a larger percentage tip is appropriate
due to higher prices overlooks the fact that the restaurant prices are
higher so 15% tips are more.



>There are unfortunately still many people
> who refuse to tip those who perform a service even though they fully
> know that service workers are otherwise not paid commisserate to the
> work they perform.


I am assuming that you mean commensurate, but there are lots of people
who work their asses off for low wages. Looking back on my life, I had a
number of jobs where I had to work like a slave for a crappy wage. Farm
work was the worst. I once picked strawberries from 7am until noon and
earned $2.35... 47 quarts of strawberries at 5 cents per quart. No
tips. Waiters may not make a lot of money, but they tend to make more
than other people performing menial labour.

> Tipping evolved so that wages are shared between
> proprietor and patron since servers are employed by both, and in fact
> it's the patron who is far more in receipt of the benefits and
> therefore responsible for the greater share. Tipping insures maximum
> rather than minimal service.

No it doesn't. Maximum service would be one waiter per table, or perhaps
two tables. Tipping means a price war between tables competing for
service. The big spenders like to flash a bunch of bills when they come
in to let it be known that they have the money and if you want it you
better beat their beck and call.



> Folks who don't want to tip service
> staff are courteously invited to dine at the local cafeterias, roach
> coaches, and vending machines.


I have said in the past that I would be willing to pay higher prices so
that the restaurant could pay a high enough wage that their staff did
not need to depend on the charity of their customers. I keep seeing more
and more places with tip jars. Those people at coffee shops and bakeries
aren't making much more than waiters, but IMO counter service is not the
type of service you need to tip for.


You can bet your bippee that folks who
> resent tipping are verbally abusive of waitstaff and also treat their
> parents and spouse likewise, and are generally obnoxious/douchebags.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:53:03 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:42:09 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>>
>>So why did the OP post that he put the bills in the check folder?
>>
>>I think that the server was just inexperienced. Why would she bring
>>back the very same five dollar bill, unbroken?
>
> So as not to be accused of thievery. Have you never been handed too
> much money from a checkout person at the stupidmarket, you'd pocket
> it.

you would, because you're a ****ing chiseler. not everyone is.

blake

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:26:15 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> Just now looked, this is typical, I usually have a few tens too. I
> also keep some 50s and 100s in another place... I've been carrying a
> "man bag" all my adult life... most men leave home with nothing but
> belly button lint, it's no wonder they can't pay for a sandwhich:
> http://i54.tinypic.com/6qbr4g.jpg
>
> http://i54.tinypic.com/rt1htg.jpg

carries a man bag and accuses other of being faggots. typical.

blake

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 16:05:01 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:04:01 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 09:58:23 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>>
>>> Servers do not ask about
>>> wanting change back when there's a folder.
>>
>>Yes they do and often enough that I think it's a downright rude trend.
>
> I've never had that happen with a folder. I've had it happen when
> there was no folder. Any server who asks me if I want my change
> guarantees themself receiving no tip.

yet you have the nerve to call other people cheap *******s.

blake

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:52:03 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia wrote:

> I recently ate out in two places, added tips to the bill, paid by
> credit card, but the tips didn't get billed. Fortunately, the
> waiters' names were on the ticket, so I mailed them checks with a
> note. Something in their procedure needs to be changed - I hope too
> to have restored their faith in the 'stiffing' public. I am sure I
> got cursed those nights.

i rarely pay by credit card, but when i do i leave the tip in cash. that
way the waiter gets his mitts on it right away.

your pal,
blake

On 7/25/2011 11:54 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> I have said in the past that I would be willing to pay higher prices so
> that the restaurant could pay a high enough wage that their staff did
> not need to depend on the charity of their customers. I keep seeing more
> and more places with tip jars. Those people at coffee shops and bakeries
> aren't making much more than waiters, but IMO counter service is not the
> type of service you need to tip for.


There was a sandwich shop in PA that I liked and I started putting a $1
in the tip jar every time I picked up an order and a couple of dollars
if I ate there. The guys got to know me and after a short time, I
noticed that my sandwiches had more meat in them than previously.... and
I was always greeted like an old friend.

Working the counter in a deli, bakery, restaurant, etc is a tough job.
If a buck in a tip jar and a "Thank you" makes someone smile, then it is
worth it to me.

George L

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 25/07/2011 12:31 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> The needle on the irony meter was bouncing off the end of the scale when
>>> he answered your insightful comment by saying that you don't have a
>>> clue. It is displays of ignorance like that which demonstrate why some
>>> people are stuck in menial positions. They are too stupid to get a
>>> better paying job. They aren't bright enough to realize that that a
>>> constant percentage amounts to more money when the bill is higher. Most
>>> other workers have to depend on pleading with their bosses for raise, or
>>> collective bargaining. People who work on commission and tips basically
>>> get a raise every time the menu prices are adjusted.
>>
>> That's not necessarilly true.
>
>How is in not necessarily true?

Many people don't tip. duh

On 25/07/2011 1:39 PM, Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>> I have said in the past that I would be willing to pay higher prices so
>> that the restaurant could pay a high enough wage that their staff did
>> not need to depend on the charity of their customers. I keep seeing more
>> and more places with tip jars. Those people at coffee shops and bakeries
>> aren't making much more than waiters, but IMO counter service is not the
>> type of service you need to tip for.
>
> Agreed completely. People who say that folks wouldn't spend more
> because the cost of the meal would go up seem to miss that they are
> already spending more by tipping and it just gets the restaurant off the
> hook for paying their staff.
>


Besides, it is not always the waiter's fault if service is slow. That
is generally the fault of the kitchen staff, though experienced waiters
may bully newer services by slipping their orders in ahead or taking
orders meant for another table.

We were had dinner in a restaurant on Saturday night. Our food was slow
coming. I don't blame the waitress. I was sitting facing thee kitchen
and there was only one guy in. The thing is, due to our being out of
town and having to get back home because of the dog, we ate early, and
there is a good chance that while there was only one guy in the kitchen
at that time, they had someone coming in later for the dinner rush.

It's not the server's fault if the food isn't good. Nor is it the
server's fault if some of the things on the plate are hot and others
aren't, like a recent experience where my potato was barely warm, but
everything else was nice and hot.

If people really think that serving food should be a commission sort of
remuneration, then make it a set percentage and tack it onto the bill
and then going right to the server. If they feel that the the service
was outstanding, they can leave extra


But this crap I have been hearing lately about how if customers can
afford to eat in a restaurant they can afford to tip, and that the
percentage should be 18 instead of 15 because of inflation????? Nuts to
that.

On 25/07/2011 2:10 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On 25/07/2011 12:31 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The needle on the irony meter was bouncing off the end of the scale when
>>>> he answered your insightful comment by saying that you don't have a
>>>> clue. It is displays of ignorance like that which demonstrate why some
>>>> people are stuck in menial positions. They are too stupid to get a
>>>> better paying job. They aren't bright enough to realize that that a
>>>> constant percentage amounts to more money when the bill is higher. Most
>>>> other workers have to depend on pleading with their bosses for raise, or
>>>> collective bargaining. People who work on commission and tips basically
>>>> get a raise every time the menu prices are adjusted.
>>>
>>> That's not necessarilly true.
>>
>> How is in not necessarily true?
>
> Many people don't tip. duh


Like I said.... a constant percentage. If some people were not tipping
before and aren't now, things have not changed, the the servers would
still be getting more.

However, the fact that some people do not tip is part of my argument
against tipping. People should be paid by their employers for the work
they do and should not have t rely on the generousity of their
customers. I always tip, 15% or more, usually more, but I know people
who do not.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would
> have been $4.50.

15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a
little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more).

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 25/07/2011 2:27 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would
>> have been $4.50.
>
> 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a
> little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more).
>


For as long as I can remember, the standard around here for good service
has been 15%. AAMOF I remember that the girlfriend of a friend of mine
back in the 70's was a waitress and prided herself in almost always
getting a full 15% tip.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:39:45 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

> People who say that folks wouldn't spend more
> because the cost of the meal would go up seem to miss that they are
> already spending more by tipping and it just gets the restaurant off the
> hook for paying their staff.

We're not tipping 20% anymore and have downgraded to 15% because city
law is that servers now earn a minimum wage of $9.92/hour. It's still
peanuts in the real world, but at least most of them aren't working
for slave wages anymore. Of course, there are still cheats who don't
pay their workers what they should - but they'll be caught eventually.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:59:53 -0400, blake murphy
> wrote:

> i rarely pay by credit card, but when i do i leave the tip in cash. that
> way the waiter gets his mitts on it right away.

That's what I do too... when I have the cash. Sometimes my only money
is plastic.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Jul 25, 9:54 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> .... Those people at coffee shops and bakeries
> aren't making much more than waiters, but IMO counter service is not the
> type of service you need to tip for. ....

What's the origin of that attitude? The counter person serves your
drink, takes your order, serves it, cleans it up, and may take your
payment as well, just like a table server. How does that not earn a
tip? Because they walk a shorter distance? Your attitude makes no
sense.

At the famous Phillipe's in L.A. all orders are taken and filled at
high counters, sort of like cafeteria style. The counterperson takes
your order, puts it on a carrying tray and gives it to you, then takes
your money on a little money tray. Most everyone leaves a tip on that
tray. Get service, leave a tip--that's how our society works in the
U.S., whether it makes sense or not. -aem

On 25/07/2011 3:51 PM, aem wro0te:
> On Jul 25, 9:54 am, Dave > wrote:
>> .... Those people at coffee shops and bakeries
>> aren't making much more than waiters, but IMO counter service is not the
>> type of service you need to tip for. ....
>
> What's the origin of that attitude? The counter person serves your
> drink, takes your order, serves it, cleans it up, and may take your
> payment as well, just like a table server. How does that not earn a
> tip? Because they walk a shorter distance? Your attitude makes no
> sense.


It certainly deserves a wage.
My dentist goes to dental school. He examines my teeth, takes Xrays,
gives me freezing so that I won't feel pain and then fixes problems. Why
should he not deserve a tip? Sure, he makes a better wage. He worked
for it. I really don't think that I should have to subsidize everyone's
wages because they boss is cheap.
>
> At the famous Phillipe's in L.A. all orders are taken and filled at
> high counters, sort of like cafeteria style. The counterperson takes
> your order, puts it on a carrying tray and gives it to you, then takes
> your money on a little money tray. Most everyone leaves a tip on that
> tray. Get service, leave a tip--that's how our society works in the
> U.S., whether it makes sense or not. -aem

Counter service is not service. I presume they are being paid a wage.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:34:18 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 25/07/2011 2:27 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would
> >> have been $4.50.
> >
> > 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a
> > little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more).
> >
>
>
> For as long as I can remember, the standard around here for good service
> has been 15%. AAMOF I remember that the girlfriend of a friend of mine
> back in the 70's was a waitress and prided herself in almost always
> getting a full 15% tip.
>
I bow to your superior knowledge, Dave. Never mind that I was eating
at and sometimes even paying for meals at every type of eating
establishment (even the fanciest in town) back then.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 25/07/2011 2:27 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:54:54 -0400, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> If a restaurant bill 30 years ago was $30, a 15% tip would
>>> have been $4.50.
>>
>> 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a
>> little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more).
>>
>
>
> For as long as I can remember, the standard around here for good service
> has been 15%. AAMOF I remember that the girlfriend of a friend of mine
> back in the 70's was a waitress and prided herself in almost always
> getting a full 15% tip.

If your party is over a certain number of people (I think it is 6), Olive
Garden and some other restaurants around here will automatically add 18% to
your bill. I didn't know this when we were eating at OG and gave them
another 20%. Now I know to check.

On 25/07/2011 4:37 PM, sf wrote:

>>
>> It was his loss, and no, I did not give him a larger tip to make up for
>> the $20 her screwed himself out of. I tried to tell him that he was
>> giving me too much change and he was incredibly rude about it.
>>
>
> You may have felt superior, but that you're "wrong game" is too
> childish for a grown man. You could have told him clearly that the
> travelers check was in Canadian dollars and he was figuring in US, if
> that was indeed the case.

I tried. I pointed out that the had made a mistake. Not once, not twice,
but three times. The first time I suggested that he had made a mistake
I thought that he might have realized what it was, but he was so snippy
in his assertion that he had checked his figures. I tried a second time
and got the "I told you I checked my figures .... " Then the third
time he just cut off me off.

I bet you that a lot of people would have just pocketed the money and
left. Few would bother a second time. I tried a third time. I don`t
know what the hell his problem was, but I think that little exchange as
we paid the bill is a pretty good demonstration of his attitude.


It was a nice place, nice view of the harbour, nice furnishings, but the
food wasn`t great. I can`t ever remember a waiter being that rude to me,
and I was..... Maybe I should have just raised my voice and said `No you
f&?%ing idiot. I have been trying to tell you that you game me $20 too
much change. But if you insist...... ``

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:32:46 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>
> Counter service is not service. I presume they are being paid a wage.
>

i think you're talking about a McDonald's type of counter service
(which is window service, even though it has been moved inside) vs.
eating at the counter in the old fashioned style restaurant we used to
call a coffee shop.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On 25/07/2011 4:42 PM, sf wrote:

>>> 15% was not the norm 30 years ago. We were tipping 10% (maybe a
>>> little more for someone like me, in the city, but not much more).
>>>
>>
>>
>> For as long as I can remember, the standard around here for good service
>> has been 15%. AAMOF I remember that the girlfriend of a friend of mine
>> back in the 70's was a waitress and prided herself in almost always
>> getting a full 15% tip.
>>
> I bow to your superior knowledge, Dave. Never mind that I was eating
> at and sometimes even paying for meals at every type of eating
> establishment (even the fanciest in town) back then.
>

Tipping practices vary from place to place. It is been pointed out here
that most jurisdictions have a minimum wag, and that it is lower for
people serving alcohol directly to customers because it is expected that
they will be getting tips. In some parts of Europe tipping is not
expected. In some places you leave a bit of change. In some places
there is a serve charge added to your bill, and you might still leave a
little change for super service.