I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

On Jul 26, 2:01*pm, wrote:
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

Maybe Andy has one in his dumpster.

On 7/26/2011 5:01 PM, wrote:
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

I don't know that it really matters which one you choose apart from
price. The only thing that my 40-year old KitchenAid lacks is a handle
to make rotating the bowl easy. I think they all have them now but make
sure. I also am rather attracted by the glass bowls on some but they
aren't essential.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

> I don't know that it really matters which one you choose apart from
> price. The only thing that my 40-year old KitchenAid lacks is a handle
> to make rotating the bowl easy. I think they all have them now but make
> sure. I also am rather attracted by the glass bowls on some but they
> aren't essential.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton, Potomac
>
> I'm *not*


The 6 quart KA bowl does not move in the mixer stand. The paddle
moves. The stainless steel bowls have a small handle to aid in
putting it in the mixer stand and taking it out, or for holding onto
it while you hand-stir something into the mix, off the mixer stand.

If you're going to be baking bread on a fairly consistent schedule, go
for the higher wattage one. You only live once, and he who dies with
the most toys wins. ;-)

N.

> wrote in message
...
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid
> models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully
> bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and
> we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from
> those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.


Bigger the better for bread. I have a KA Pro 6. It can do two pounds of
dough and not even work up a sweat.

Paul

On Jul 26, 5:01*pm, wrote:
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

I have the larger one and don't regret getting it, even though there's
only the two of us here. I love it for bread. If cost isn't an
issue, go for the bigger one.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Denise in NH
> wrote:

>On Jul 26, 5:01*pm, wrote:
>> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
>> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
>
>I have the larger one and don't regret getting it, even though there's
>only the two of us here. I love it for bread. If cost isn't an
>issue, go for the bigger one.

First thing is to ask yourself how often you'll use it and for what,
and be honest. Neither can knead more dough than one can easily by
hand, those bowls are too small and neither has the power to knead the
heavier doughs in any large amounts... and no machine can knead dough
better than human hands... I'd not get either unless you're disabled.
I'd suggest a quality hand mixer instead, KA makes a nice one, a lot
less money and needs little storeage space. Only down side is you
can't display it to impress anyone except those that really cook.
Years ago when I had stand mixers I still most often reached for my
hand mixer, did the job as well if not better and so much less clean
up. And btw, wattage is power consumed, not power produced... those
higher wattage stand mixers produce more heat is all... the larger
machine produces excessive heat mostly due to the larger bowl
diameter. If you insist on a stand mixer go with the smaller, it's
more efficient.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:48:38 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Denise in NH
> wrote:
>
>>On Jul 26, 5:01*pm, wrote:
>>> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>>> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>>> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>>> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>>> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>>> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
>>> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
>>
>>I have the larger one and don't regret getting it, even though there's
>>only the two of us here. I love it for bread. If cost isn't an
>>issue, go for the bigger one.
>
>First thing is to ask yourself how often you'll use it and for what,
>and be honest. Neither can knead more dough than one can easily by
>hand, those bowls are too small and neither has the power to knead the
>heavier doughs in any large amounts... and no machine can knead dough
>better than human hands... I'd not get either unless you're disabled.
>I'd suggest a quality hand mixer instead, KA makes a nice one, a lot
>less money and needs little storeage space. Only down side is you
>can't display it to impress anyone except those that really cook.
>Years ago when I had stand mixers I still most often reached for my
>hand mixer, did the job as well if not better and so much less clean
>up. And btw, wattage is power consumed, not power produced... those
>higher wattage stand mixers produce more heat is all... the larger
>machine produces excessive heat mostly due to the larger bowl
>diameter. If you insist on a stand mixer go with the smaller, it's
>more efficient.

A hand mixer is fine if you want to whip cream or mix a box cake mix.
They want to make bread. Your notion that a hand mixer will do bread
dough is nonsense. A stand mixer is fine for bread dough. It makes
short order of mixing the goopy part of bread dough and handles
kneading the dough just fine. Not everyone can handle bread dough
without pain in fingers and wrists.
Janet US

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:26:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:48:38 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Denise in NH
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Jul 26, 5:01*pm, wrote:
>>>> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>>>> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>>>> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>>>> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>>>> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>>>> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
>>>> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
>>>
>>>I have the larger one and don't regret getting it, even though there's
>>>only the two of us here. I love it for bread. If cost isn't an
>>>issue, go for the bigger one.
>>
>>First thing is to ask yourself how often you'll use it and for what,
>>and be honest. Neither can knead more dough than one can easily by
>>hand, those bowls are too small and neither has the power to knead the
>>heavier doughs in any large amounts... and no machine can knead dough
>>better than human hands... I'd not get either unless you're disabled.
>>I'd suggest a quality hand mixer instead, KA makes a nice one, a lot
>>less money and needs little storeage space. Only down side is you
>>can't display it to impress anyone except those that really cook.
>>Years ago when I had stand mixers I still most often reached for my
>>hand mixer, did the job as well if not better and so much less clean
>>up. And btw, wattage is power consumed, not power produced... those
>>higher wattage stand mixers produce more heat is all... the larger
>>machine produces excessive heat mostly due to the larger bowl
>>diameter. If you insist on a stand mixer go with the smaller, it's
>>more efficient.
>
>A hand mixer is fine if you want to whip cream or mix a box cake mix.
>They want to make bread. Your notion that a hand mixer will do bread
>dough is nonsense. A stand mixer is fine for bread dough. It makes
>short order of mixing the goopy part of bread dough and handles
>kneading the dough just fine. Not everyone can handle bread dough
>without pain in fingers and wrists.
>Janet US

I can handle the dough but why? I toss the stuff in the bowl and turn
the machine on. And yes shemp is wrong again. I have the KA hand
mixer and there's no way it can be used for dough.

Lou

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 09:12:51 -0500, Lou Decruss
> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:26:09 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:48:38 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Denise in NH
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jul 26, 5:01*pm, wrote:
>>>>> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>>>>> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>>>>> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>>>>> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>>>>> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>>>>> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
>>>>> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>I have the larger one and don't regret getting it, even though there's
>>>>only the two of us here. I love it for bread. If cost isn't an
>>>>issue, go for the bigger one.
>>>
>>>First thing is to ask yourself how often you'll use it and for what,
>>>and be honest. Neither can knead more dough than one can easily by
>>>hand, those bowls are too small and neither has the power to knead the
>>>heavier doughs in any large amounts... and no machine can knead dough
>>>better than human hands... I'd not get either unless you're disabled.
>>>I'd suggest a quality hand mixer instead, KA makes a nice one, a lot
>>>less money and needs little storeage space. Only down side is you
>>>can't display it to impress anyone except those that really cook.
>>>Years ago when I had stand mixers I still most often reached for my
>>>hand mixer, did the job as well if not better and so much less clean
>>>up. And btw, wattage is power consumed, not power produced... those
>>>higher wattage stand mixers produce more heat is all... the larger
>>>machine produces excessive heat mostly due to the larger bowl
>>>diameter. If you insist on a stand mixer go with the smaller, it's
>>>more efficient.
>>
>>A hand mixer is fine if you want to whip cream or mix a box cake mix.
>>They want to make bread. Your notion that a hand mixer will do bread
>>dough is nonsense. A stand mixer is fine for bread dough. It makes
>>short order of mixing the goopy part of bread dough and handles
>>kneading the dough just fine. Not everyone can handle bread dough
>>without pain in fingers and wrists.
>>Janet US
>
>I can handle the dough but why? I toss the stuff in the bowl and turn
>the machine on. And yes shemp is wrong again. I have the KA hand
>mixer and there's no way it can be used for dough.

All that snorting interferes with reading comprehension.

Janet Bostwick wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:48:38 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Denise in NH
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Jul 26, 5:01*pm, wrote:
>>>> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>>>> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>>>> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>>>> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>>>> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>>>> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
>>>> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
>>>
>>>I have the larger one and don't regret getting it, even though there's
>>>only the two of us here. I love it for bread. If cost isn't an
>>>issue, go for the bigger one.
>>
>>First thing is to ask yourself how often you'll use it and for what,
>>and be honest. Neither can knead more dough than one can easily by
>>hand, those bowls are too small and neither has the power to knead the
>>heavier doughs in any large amounts... and no machine can knead dough
>>better than human hands... I'd not get either unless you're disabled.
>>I'd suggest a quality hand mixer instead, KA makes a nice one, a lot
>>less money and needs little storeage space. Only down side is you
>>can't display it to impress anyone except those that really cook.
>>Years ago when I had stand mixers I still most often reached for my
>>hand mixer, did the job as well if not better and so much less clean
>>up. And btw, wattage is power consumed, not power produced... those
>>higher wattage stand mixers produce more heat is all... the larger
>>machine produces excessive heat mostly due to the larger bowl
>>diameter. If you insist on a stand mixer go with the smaller, it's
>>more efficient.
>
>A hand mixer is fine if you want to whip cream or mix a box cake mix.
>
>They want to make bread.
>Your notion that a hand mixer will do bread dough is nonsense.

Never said that... said for bread dough to use ones hands, unless one
is handicapped... try reading again. Were you not so possessed with
admonishing me your low IQ wouldn't become so obvious... what an angry
unfullfilled woman you are... I'd not be surprised to learn that you
have no legs either, Janet.

On 7/27/2011 9:14 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> A hand mixer is fine if you want to whip cream or mix a box cake mix.
>> >
>> >They want to make bread.
>> >Your notion that a hand mixer will do bread dough is nonsense.

> Never said that... said for bread dough to use ones hands, unless one
> is handicapped... try reading again.

Or unless one just doesn't want to stand there kneading dough by hand.

I also don't feel like lighting a wood fire every time I want to cook
something so I have a stove.

I also don't feel like cutting ice out of a lake in winter and storing
it... so I have a refrigerator.

Now Sheldon, pick up your scythe and go mow your lawn. What? You use a
tractor? Are you handicapped... or just lazy? Or do you just like
displaying your tractor to impress people?

George L

On Jul 26, 2:01*pm, wrote:
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

If you are really getting into bread making, get the six quart.

Better still, go on dBay and find a Hobart/Kitchen Aid and snatch it
up. Have it serviced and it will out
do any of the new models.

ImStillMags wrote:
> On Jul 26, 2:01 pm, wrote:
>> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>> baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
>> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
>
> If you are really getting into bread making, get the six quart.
>
> Better still, go on dBay and find a Hobart/Kitchen Aid and snatch it
> up. Have it serviced and it will out
> do any of the new models.

Yup. I agree.

--
Jean B.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:01:02 -0400, wrote:

>I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
>you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

We've had both the 5 and the 6 qt units, and every one we've owned is
still in the family and in use (4 kids, all of whom have KA's). To
make bread for 2, on an occasional basis, the 5 is perfectly OK. That
said, when you get into the heavy breads or wish to make 2 loaves at
once, or a 2 lb or larger loaf, then the 6 comes into play. There are
times I have found our current KA (a 6-Pro) to large for a single 1.5
lb loaf, but then I also have a big Zoji. I use the Zoji more than I
use the KA. This is because I use the Zoji dough cycle for my whole
wheats, then free form them, and when I make Ciabatta-type loaves, I
make a poolisih by hand the day before and then fold in the main dough
ball by hand. I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.

Also, if you come to love your KA and want to add accessories like a
pasta roller, meat grinder or electric welder, then go for the 6. Know
in advance: to make 1 lb loaves for 2 on occasion, you will find the 6
qt bowl a little too large. YMMV.

Have fun. You won't lose either way. A KA is a real investment, but
worth it.

Alex, who'se never had the KA 4.5 mixer, but heard good things. Also
heard that the older KA's are better than the newer ones. Any opinions
on that?

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
snip
I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>
snip


I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. It's
the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.
Janet US

On Jul 27, 12:52*pm, Janet Bostwick > wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, > wrote:
> *I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
> >type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>
> I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. *It's
> the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.

Yes, and the wetness of the dough etc. And over-rising is hardly a
problem - just give it a good kneading and let it rise again.
Following Elizabeth David, I believe in using a minimum starting
amount of yeast (about 1/8 teaspoon of dried yeast to a pound of
flour) with the result that I have very long rising times and quite
often forget about the dough until it has risen and collapsed again.
So many of my loafs have had three (or more) risings with kneadings in
between, and I think they taste better for it. And the bread has a
strong texture which makes it easy to slice thinly and put spreads on.

I used to knead by hand all the way, but these days I use the mixer (a
60-year-old Kenwood in my case) to do the initial mixing and kneading
to the point where the dough is no longer sticky, when I take over and
enjoy the tactility of it all.

LW

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:52:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
>snip
> I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>>
>snip
>
>
>I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. It's
>the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.
>Janet US

Looks like your using the direct(1 step) method. I make a poolish, as
I said, the day before and let it mature in the fridge overnight. When
I add it to the main mix of dough, I do not knead the two at all, but
merely fold one into the other by hand and allow to rise. Then, rather
than kneading and breaking up the formed bubbles, I gently stretch the
dough, fold it over itself in layers and lay it (covered) on a loaf
form covered with parchment paper. This way nickel- and quarter-sized
holes are easy to obtain. For details, see:

The Breadmaker's Apprentice, p 135 et seq. entitled "Ciabatta"

The same technique works well for Baguettes and the like, and the
poolish method develops a light sour-dough like flavor that is
excellent. No direct method I know of (except for adding vinegar to
the dough) develops the flavor like the 2-step method, starting with a
mature poolish or biga. Hope this explains it.

Alex

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:08:01 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:

> This way nickel- and quarter-sized holes are easy to obtain.

I would consider that a defect, not something to strive for.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

sf wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:08:01 -0500, Chemiker
> > wrote:
>
> > This way nickel- and quarter-sized holes are easy to obtain.
>
> I would consider that a defect, not something to strive for.

Crusty, chewy large pore breads are pretty damned good, and I don't
think they would be as good if they were not large pore.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:08:01 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:52:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
>>snip
>> I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>>>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>>>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>>>
>>snip
>>
>>
>>I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. It's
>>the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.
>>Janet US
>
>Looks like your using the direct(1 step) method. I make a poolish, as
>I said, the day before and let it mature in the fridge overnight. When
>I add it to the main mix of dough, I do not knead the two at all, but
>merely fold one into the other by hand and allow to rise. Then, rather
>than kneading and breaking up the formed bubbles, I gently stretch the
>dough, fold it over itself in layers and lay it (covered) on a loaf
>form covered with parchment paper. This way nickel- and quarter-sized
>holes are easy to obtain. For details, see:
>
>The Breadmaker's Apprentice, p 135 et seq. entitled "Ciabatta"
>
>The same technique works well for Baguettes and the like, and the
>poolish method develops a light sour-dough like flavor that is
>excellent. No direct method I know of (except for adding vinegar to
>the dough) develops the flavor like the 2-step method, starting with a
>mature poolish or biga. Hope this explains it.
>
>Alex

That technique may produce the open crumb you seek - along with the
hydration of the dough, of course, but using a mixer will not screw up
the crumb.

One of the most "holey" breads I know - Carol Field's cocodrillo,
spends 17 minute in the mixer and you could drive a truck through the
crumb openings in the finished loaf.

And IMHO, listening to advice from Janet Bostwick about bread baking
will do you even better than reading Reinhart...and that is "The Bread
Baker's Apprentice," by the way.

Boron

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:52:58 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

> And IMHO, listening to advice from Janet Bostwick about bread baking
> will do you even better than reading Reinhart...and that is "The Bread
> Baker's Apprentice," by the way.

Are you saying Janet is our very own rfc bread guru? KEWL!

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:52:58 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:08:01 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:52:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
>>>snip
>>> I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>>>>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>>>>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>>>>
>>>snip
>>>
>>>
>>>I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. It's
>>>the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.
>>>Janet US
>>
>>Looks like your using the direct(1 step) method. I make a poolish, as
>>I said, the day before and let it mature in the fridge overnight. When
>>I add it to the main mix of dough, I do not knead the two at all, but
>>merely fold one into the other by hand and allow to rise. Then, rather
>>than kneading and breaking up the formed bubbles, I gently stretch the
>>dough, fold it over itself in layers and lay it (covered) on a loaf
>>form covered with parchment paper. This way nickel- and quarter-sized
>>holes are easy to obtain. For details, see:
>>
>>The Breadmaker's Apprentice, p 135 et seq. entitled "Ciabatta"
>>
>>The same technique works well for Baguettes and the like, and the
>>poolish method develops a light sour-dough like flavor that is
>>excellent. No direct method I know of (except for adding vinegar to
>>the dough) develops the flavor like the 2-step method, starting with a
>>mature poolish or biga. Hope this explains it.
>>
>>Alex
>
>That technique may produce the open crumb you seek - along with the
>hydration of the dough, of course, but using a mixer will not screw up
>the crumb.
>
>One of the most "holey" breads I know - Carol Field's cocodrillo,
>spends 17 minute in the mixer and you could drive a truck through the
>crumb openings in the finished loaf.
>
>And IMHO, listening to advice from Janet Bostwick about bread baking
>will do you even better than reading Reinhart...and that is "The Bread
>Baker's Apprentice," by the way.
>
>Boron

Boron, thank you for saying that, it was kind of you. But I respect
your knowledge and hands on expertise and am in awe of your 'feel' for
the dough.

I can't imagine what would make Chemiker get small crumb results when
he uses a mixer. I can only think that maybe he is making too dry a
dough in the mixer just because he doesn't see the dough clear the
bowl the way he thinks it should and keeps on adding flour? Unless he
is handling too much/too roughly after rise .
Janet US

Chicago based U.S Equities Realty, a facility management company wanted a replacement for it's worn out traditional black asphalt - covered rooftop. After much research they decided on the Clean and Green Roofing solution, an organic rooftop. This new roofing material is surprisingly non - toxic, flame resistant, water - proofed and has high reflectivity. The specialty is that it is able to lower the inside and the outside temperature of the building.

Chemiker > wrote:
-snip-
>ball by hand. I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.

You want a quick Ciabatta with an open crumb? Done completely with
the machine?

How's this look?
http://i52.tinypic.com/33usfmg.jpg

It is a high hydration mix, beat for 15-30 minutes on my KA on #4.

Here's the original recipe from 2004-
https://groups.google.com/group/alt....5cc8dbb869544b

tinied-
http://tinyurl.com/6dtf2pz

I've done it a few times and it has come out perfect each time.

>
>Also, if you come to love your KA and want to add accessories like a
>pasta roller, meat grinder or electric welder, then go for the 6. Know
>in advance: to make 1 lb loaves for 2 on occasion, you will find the 6
>qt bowl a little too large. YMMV.
>

Could you explain that a bit. I haven't noticed it but maybe I'm
missing something. I've done single loaves with my 6qt.

Jim

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:36:59 -0400, Jim Elbrecht >
wrote:

>Chemiker > wrote:
>-snip-
>>ball by hand. I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>
>You want a quick Ciabatta with an open crumb? Done completely with
>the machine?
>
>How's this look?
>http://i52.tinypic.com/33usfmg.jpg
>
>It is a high hydration mix, beat for 15-30 minutes on my KA on #4.
>
>Here's the original recipe from 2004-
>https://groups.google.com/group/alt....5cc8dbb869544b
>
>tinied-
>http://tinyurl.com/6dtf2pz
>
>I've done it a few times and it has come out perfect each time.
>

>Could you explain that a bit. I haven't noticed it but maybe I'm
>missing something. I've done single loaves with my 6qt.

Sure Jim. You can sure do it, but I found the K5 to be a little better
at handling single one pound loaves than the 6. That said, if I want
more bread (for my married kids and certain neighbors) the K6 shines.
Also, my K5 *did* tend to get a little hot and bog down with certain
heavy doughs. The K6 takes anything in stride; it's a tank. Yet, I'm
to make 2 loaves of WW today, one for use and one for the handyman. I
will use the Zoji to mix and knead the dough. Then I will knead and
form by hand and bake in Calphalon loaf pans (love 'em), so there are
no holes in the bottom. Sugar will be turbinado. FWIW: Our present KA
is the K6.

Alex

wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen
> Aid models. One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a
> five quart, 325 watt model. My question is,which one do I need for
> basic baking and hopefully bread making. They both come with a dough
> hook. It's only my wife and myself and we really don't do much
> entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into baking. I
> already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

Um, why would you use a stand mixer instead of a bread machine? Your
situation leads to a bread machine.

--

cshenk wrote:
> wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen
>> Aid models. One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a
>> five quart, 325 watt model. My question is,which one do I need for
>> basic baking and hopefully bread making. They both come with a dough
>> hook. It's only my wife and myself and we really don't do much
>> entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into baking. I
>> already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
>> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
>
> Um, why would you use a stand mixer instead of a bread machine? Your
> situation leads to a bread machine.

Because you can make better bread with a stand mixer, and use it for things
other than bread, too.

I'd get the 6-qt. I have a 5-qt, and find that when I make my standard
2-loaf batch of dough it tends to throw the flour around at times, even with
the shield in place. I could use some more room.

I also make very large tiered cakes upon occasion, and the larger size would
be good for that, too.

Janet wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> cshenk wrote:
> > wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> > > I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen
> > > Aid models. One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a
> > > five quart, 325 watt model. My question is,which one do I need for
> > > basic baking and hopefully bread making. They both come with a
> > > dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we really don't do
> > > much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into baking.
> > > I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from
> > > those of you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.
> >
> > Um, why would you use a stand mixer instead of a bread machine?
> > Your situation leads to a bread machine.
>
> Because you can make better bread with a stand mixer, and use it for
> things other than bread, too.
>
> I'd get the 6-qt. I have a 5-qt, and find that when I make my
> standard 2-loaf batch of dough it tends to throw the flour around at
> times, even with the shield in place. I could use some more room.
>
> I also make very large tiered cakes upon occasion, and the larger
> size would be good for that, too.

Thats fine but the OP's post doens't lead to a stand mixer and I'll add
if you learn how to properly use a breadmachine, the bread is as good
or better than improper use of a stand mixer where the rising times are
not followed correctly.


--

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:57:00 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:

> Thats fine but the OP's post doens't lead to a stand mixer and I'll add
> if you learn how to properly use a breadmachine, the bread is as good
> or better than improper use of a stand mixer where the rising times are
> not followed correctly.
>
some people have the knack, some don't. I can't make decent banana
bread and I make doorstops with a bread machine.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

wrote:

>I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
>One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
>model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
>making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
>really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
>baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
>you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

I owned the 325watt model for 24 hours and one batch of [not
particularly stiff] bread. It had to work to knead it, the motor
got too hot to touch, and the smell was *not* pleasant.

I returned it, got the 575 and thanked my lucky stars. It has
been perfect for a year and a half. I have worked it as hard as I
could and it hasn't shown the slightest sign of bogging down or
heating up.

I disagree with Chemiker on the 6qt bowl being 'too large'. I just
did the equivalent of a single loaf tonight and don't see the
difference. If it is adjusted right it reaches to the bottom of
the bowl.

I haven't been baking for more thna a few years so maybe I'm missing
something here--

I'd take a deep breath and go for the higher wattage model--
especially if you see a grinder, shredder, juicer, pasta maker or
rollers in your future.

And personally, I'd go with a new one. For several years KA went to
nylon gears which were prone to failure. [they are back to metal
now] So if you see one on ebay, you might want to check to see which
gears it has and make allowance.

Jim

> wrote in message
...
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid
> models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully
> bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and
> we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from
> those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

I had the large Kitchenaid, but I found that it was too big for my use. I
like, and now have the under 200.00 dollar model. Kneads dough really well,
and easier for me to use than the large one which I passed on to my DIL. She
loves it. YMMV

Cheri

wrote:
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking :-) Any suggestions from those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

My suggestion is looked for a used one made by Hobart.

--
Jean B.

On Jul 26, 5:01*pm, wrote:
> I'm looking into getting a stand mixer. I'm looking at two Kitchen Aid models.
> One is a six quart, 575 watt model and the other is a five quart, 325 watt
> model. My question is,which one do I need for basic baking and hopefully bread
> making. They both come with a dough hook. It's only my wife and myself and we
> really don't do much entertaining. I'm retired and would like to get into
> baking. I already do all the other cooking *:-) *Any suggestions from those of
> you who own a stand mixer? Thanks.

Just for another angle on this, I don't own a standmixer and don't
want one, but I LOVE my bread machine. It bakes the bread too,
something the stand mixer won't do. Think upon these things.

I have the Kitchenaid Classic- it is the 250 watt model. As far as
bread goes, it *can* do a two-loaf mass of bread. If it's 100% whole
wheat it really struggles, but it does it. As many have said, the
bigger the better. I knew this already because my ex-gf had one of
these and I made bread with it on a weekly basis. After we split up,
she offered it to me, but I declined. I was looking at the Pro 6
series for awhile, but I picked this one up on Craigslist for $75. Who
could say no?

I affectionately refer to it as "my Kitchen Tractor". That's manly
and stuff. I should paint flames on it.

I've found plenty of other uses for it too. I think the most common
thing I use it for is mixing meatloaf. I always intend to get some
more attachments for it (start buying wheat in bulk and grinding it
myself at home, get the juicer and stop drinking soda for life, etc.)
but I haven't yet.

I'm one of those "sorta disabled" types. I have a pretty good case of
tendonitis in my wrists and stuff, and kneading dough is too
strenuous. I wish it wasn't but it is. Having a mixer to knead it
for me makes the art of making bread almost effortless. Even if I
only pull the KA out once a month, I still say it was worth the $75.

Besides. *everyone* loves fresh baked bread. Everyone.

-J

On 7/28/2011 2:47 AM, phaeton wrote:
>
> I'm one of those "sorta disabled" types. I have a pretty good case of
> tendonitis in my wrists and stuff, and kneading dough is too
> strenuous. I wish it wasn't but it is. Having a mixer to knead it
> for me makes the art of making bread almost effortless. Even if I
> only pull the KA out once a month, I still say it was worth the $75.

The KA mixer (5-qt Artisan model) in my home gets used to make cheese
straws, for the most part. It's an familial obligation. If I didn't
have the KA (shredder attachment included), I wouldn't be able to make
the holiday cheese straws - or for any other special occasions -- due to
"sorta disabled" reasons, too. Any version of the KA mixer is well
worth its investment, IMO

Sky

--

Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice!!

phaeton > wrote:
-snip-
>I affectionately refer to it as "my Kitchen Tractor". That's manly
>and stuff. I should paint flames on it.

No need to paint-- decals have been made
http://flameka.com/default.aspx
[also cow spots and WWII aircraft design]

I've always treated tools as 'tools', not as show-things. . . But
I've got to admit I think some of the ones on the pictures page are
cool.

Jim

phaeton wrote:
>
>I have the Kitchenaid Classic- it is the 250 watt model.
>I think the most common thing I use it for is mixing meatloaf.

Why? Don't you have hands? Machine mixing ruins ground meat texture,
it smears.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:02:15 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

>phaeton wrote:
>>
>>I have the Kitchenaid Classic- it is the 250 watt model.
>>I think the most common thing I use it for is mixing meatloaf.
>
>Why? Don't you have hands? Machine mixing ruins ground meat texture,
>it smears.

Don't be telling them how to use their mixer spam boy.

>
> Just for another angle on this, I don't own a standmixer and don't
> want one, but I LOVE my bread machine. *It bakes the bread too,
> something the stand mixer won't do. *Think upon these things.

Yes, but a bread machine isn't multi-purpose other than mixing and
baking BREAD. When was the last time you put an attachment on your
bread machine and ground meat? juiced a carrot? made pasta?
shredded cheese? whipped frosting for a cake? You can do a ton of
other stuff with a stand mixer beyond kneading bread.

N.