In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> International Bacon Day is an "unofficial" food holiday publicized by
> by the National Pork Board.
>
> To protest the high price of bacon, don't by any bacon for the next 2
> weeks. And if you have any bacon in the fridge (freezer, half-eaten,
> whatever), return it to the store so they will have *negative* sales.
>
> $.28/slice is just way too much to pay for bacon. They say the prices
> are high because it's tomato season. And farmers cut back on the
> heard during the perpetually failing economy. I think that's a bunch
> of bull. teh economy has sucked fro 11+ years. And tomato season?
> that's never made a significant impact on bacon prices.
>
> Which brings up my original question: What is "Economy Bacon?". I
> don't see a USDA definition for that item. But manufacturers and
> retails do use the term on the packaging. The cost of curing bacon in
> mass is pretty cheap these days and, so I'm guessing they skipped the
> smoking and used liquid smoke in the cure. But that is still legally
> bacon.
>
> It sure looks like pork belly in the picture. And they show strips,
> not "ends and pieces". So what could justify selling it for half the
> cost of real bacon? ($1.69 at Restaurant Depot this month).

I hope you never have to pay NZ prices for bacon.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 22:13:18 +1200, Miche > wrote:

> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
> > don't *by* any bacon
> >
> > And farmers cut back on the
> > *heard* during the perpetually failing economy.
> >
>
> I hope you never have to pay NZ prices for bacon.
>
Is someone spoofing sw now? He may be a troll, but he's a better
speller than that.


--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Sep 2, 5:13*am, Miche > wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *Sqwertz > wrote:
> > International Bacon Day is an "unofficial" food holiday publicized by
> > by the National Pork Board.
>
> > To protest the high price of bacon, don't by any bacon for the next 2
> > weeks. *And if you have any bacon in the fridge (freezer, half-eaten,
> > whatever), return it to the store so they will have *negative* sales.
>
> > $.28/slice is just way too much to pay for bacon. *They say the prices
> > are high because it's tomato season. *And farmers cut back on the
> > heard during the perpetually failing economy. * I think that's a bunch
> > of bull. *teh economy has sucked fro 11+ years. *And tomato season?
> > that's never made a significant impact on bacon prices.
>
> > Which brings up my original question: *What is "Economy Bacon?". *I
> > don't see a USDA definition for that item. *But manufacturers and
> > retails do use the term on the packaging. *The cost of curing bacon in
> > mass is pretty cheap these days and, so I'm guessing they skipped the
> > smoking and used liquid smoke in the cure. *But that is still legally
> > bacon.
>
> > It sure looks like pork belly in the picture. *And they show strips,
> > not "ends and pieces". *So what could justify selling it for half the
> > cost of real bacon? ($1.69 at Restaurant Depot this month).
>
> I hope you never have to pay NZ prices for bacon.
>
> Miche
>
> --
> Electricians do it in three phases- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Don't they raise hogs in NZ?

N.

In article
>,
Nancy2 > wrote:

> On Sep 2, 5:13*am, Miche > wrote:
> > In article >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Sqwertz > wrote:
> > > International Bacon Day is an "unofficial" food holiday publicized by
> > > by the National Pork Board.
> >
> > > To protest the high price of bacon, don't by any bacon for the next 2
> > > weeks. *And if you have any bacon in the fridge (freezer, half-eaten,
> > > whatever), return it to the store so they will have *negative* sales.
> >
> > > $.28/slice is just way too much to pay for bacon. *They say the prices
> > > are high because it's tomato season. *And farmers cut back on the
> > > heard during the perpetually failing economy. * I think that's a bunch
> > > of bull. *teh economy has sucked fro 11+ years. *And tomato season?
> > > that's never made a significant impact on bacon prices.
> >
> > > Which brings up my original question: *What is "Economy Bacon?". *I
> > > don't see a USDA definition for that item. *But manufacturers and
> > > retails do use the term on the packaging. *The cost of curing bacon in
> > > mass is pretty cheap these days and, so I'm guessing they skipped the
> > > smoking and used liquid smoke in the cure. *But that is still legally
> > > bacon.
> >
> > > It sure looks like pork belly in the picture. *And they show strips,
> > > not "ends and pieces". *So what could justify selling it for half the
> > > cost of real bacon? ($1.69 at Restaurant Depot this month).
> >
> > I hope you never have to pay NZ prices for bacon.

> Don't they raise hogs in NZ?

Yup. But we don't have farm subsidies.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

That does mean our Gov. has their hands in everything. Sooner it stops, the better the food. The best farmers here will tell you how the Dept. of Ag is the biggest waste of money. Let them farm. Free market will separate the garbage out from the best.

Gorio > wrote:

> That does mean our Gov. has their hands in everything. Sooner it stops,
> the better the food. The best farmers here will tell you how the Dept.
> of Ag is the biggest waste of money. Let them farm. Free market will
> separate the garbage out from the best.

Not a true statement. Free markets only work if one has free information on
that market. You do not know if an animal already cut up at the market does
not have some rare tasteless disease that will effect your health forever.
I want that regulation that keeps deceased animals off the market and I
want that government inspector to keep an eye on that farm. I am also for
increasing taxes to pay for that inspection at no cost to the farmer so he
stays in business.

Free markets will only help the corrupt get richer and hide the corruption
without regulations. Business can go out of business and reopen the the
next day with a new name and packaging without anyone knowing about it and
with the same filthy business practice.

It is a false statement to say that the "Free markets will separate the
garbage out from the best". A statement often used by business to hide
their corruption.

--
Nad

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:37:29 +0000 (UTC), Nad wrote:

> Gorio > wrote:
>
>> That does mean our Gov. has their hands in everything. Sooner it stops,
>> the better the food. The best farmers here will tell you how the Dept.
>> of Ag is the biggest waste of money. Let them farm. Free market will
>> separate the garbage out from the best.
>
> Not a true statement. Free markets only work if one has free information on
> that market. You do not know if an animal already cut up at the market does
> not have some rare tasteless disease that will effect your health forever.
> I want that regulation that keeps deceased animals off the market
<snip>

The typo of the week. <snort>

TFM®

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:37:29 +0000 (UTC), Nad wrote:

> Gorio > wrote:
>
>> That does mean our Gov. has their hands in everything. Sooner it stops,
>> the better the food. The best farmers here will tell you how the Dept.
>> of Ag is the biggest waste of money. Let them farm. Free market will
>> separate the garbage out from the best.
>
> Not a true statement. Free markets only work if one has free information on
> that market. You do not know if an animal already cut up at the market does
> not have some rare tasteless disease that will effect your health forever.
> I want that regulation that keeps deceased animals off the market and I
> want that government inspector to keep an eye on that farm. I am also for
> increasing taxes to pay for that inspection at no cost to the farmer so he
> stays in business.
>
> Free markets will only help the corrupt get richer and hide the corruption
> without regulations. Business can go out of business and reopen the the
> next day with a new name and packaging without anyone knowing about it and
> with the same filthy business practice.
>
> It is a false statement to say that the "Free markets will separate the
> garbage out from the best". A statement often used by business to hide
> their corruption.

this is why i find libertarians so tiresome. my question is 'without the
government, how many deaths must be associated with a product before you
hear about it and punish the producer via the invisible hand?'

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:37:29 +0000 (UTC), Nad
> wrote:

> Free markets will only help the corrupt get richer and hide the corruption
> without regulations.

I guess Gorio slept through the Bush era. How does he explain the
Saving & Loan scandal? That was a rhetorical question.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:15:03 -0400, blake murphy
> wrote:

> this is why i find libertarians so tiresome. my question is 'without the
> government, how many deaths must be associated with a product before you
> hear about it and punish the producer via the invisible hand?'

I know there's a delicate balance; but I want more government
regulation not less. In the USA, "free market" just means "take it to
China to be manufactured as cheaply as possible" and cheap doesn't
just mean "inexpensive", it means "shoddy" too. So the big question
for business in these virtually unregulated times of a "free market
economy" is to figure out how shoddy a product they can get away with
selling to the public or other businesses (which include our
government & military) at a certain price point.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On 03/09/2011 1:30 PM, sf wrote:

> I know there's a delicate balance; but I want more government
> regulation not less. In the USA, "free market" just means "take it to
> China to be manufactured as cheaply as possible" and cheap doesn't
> just mean "inexpensive", it means "shoddy" too. So the big question
> for business in these virtually unregulated times of a "free market
> economy" is to figure out how shoddy a product they can get away with
> selling to the public or other businesses (which include our
> government& military) at a certain price point.
>

There are some advantages to opening markets and getting rid of
protectionism. The problem that we have seen is that, after North
Americans and Europeans worked hard to improve wages and working
conditions, and to improve environmental protection, company owners
moved their production to other countries to take advantage of cheaper
labour and less regulation.

Like you said, those products are not just less expensive to buy. They
are shoddily made. Appliances are cheaper to buy.... initially, but they
don't last. It is cheaper to replace them than to fix them, and we end
up spending more for the same amount of use.

Good point, Nad. "Free markets and purchasing from poeple you know will weed out the garbage from the good." My bad. When we buy meat from lands unknown, that's the kind of meat we get; UNKOWN. I live in a rural area, and I know each of the people I buy my pork goodies, beef, lamb and chicken from. These things are relatively simple to produce well. But, bigger companies will take dangerous short cuts to improve profit margins. I'm still against subsidies, because I see big politics making money off of them; while the farmer gets screwed.

You're right. Big businesses depend on that ignorance. Little guys, though, rely on your faith in them. I'm with ya.

I don't know if that regulation has done a thing, though. Poeple still die, and the product is recalled. If I die, that farmer has to hang his head in shame forever. They don't sell out real quickly here. Then again, I'm not afraid to take my lfe in my hands and drink raw milk when I do imbibe. great for cooking, though. Especially when you saparate the cream from the buttermilk. that cream is the nectar of the Gods, and the right combo of cream and butttermilk makes the best Mexican crema. Can't live without it.

"sf" > wrote
> I know there's a delicate balance; but I want more government
> regulation not less. In the USA, "free market" just means "take it to
> China to be manufactured as cheaply as possible" and cheap doesn't
> just mean "inexpensive", it means "shoddy" too. So the big question
> for business in these virtually unregulated times of a "free market
> economy" is to figure out how shoddy a product they can get away with
> selling to the public or other businesses (which include our
> government & military) at a certain price point.

So you think regulations will improve quality? Should the government write
specifications for can openers, toaster element thickness, the alloy to use
in cookware with minimum thickness?

First, let me say that the Chinese are capable of making very high quality
products. It is the American writing the specifications that makes the
products shoddy. Just look at the decline of American made products even
before they moved overseas. Look back at the cheapening of power tools,
look at the US made Teflon fry pans of the 1970's, and a lot of other crap
that was in the stores. Remember when Black & Decker was a high quality
tool? Now it is junk and I won't touch it.

Sadly, the American public buys by price. You can buy a Kitchen Aid toaster
for $50, or you can buy a China made GE for WalMart for $8. If no one
bought the $8 toasters, WalMart would stop having them made and the KA sales
would increase. I could not find a toaster aside from Dualit (over $200)
that was not made in China, but some had far better specifications.

We don't need regulation, we need educated consumers that know what a
quality product is and willing to pay for it. You want to buy junk? We'll
make junk for you. We want 15¢ hamburgers and if you make them, we'll buy
billions of them.

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> "sf" > wrote
> > I know there's a delicate balance; but I want more government
> > regulation not less. In the USA, "free market" just means "take it to
> > China to be manufactured as cheaply as possible" and cheap doesn't
> > just mean "inexpensive", it means "shoddy" too. So the big question
> > for business in these virtually unregulated times of a "free market
> > economy" is to figure out how shoddy a product they can get away with
> > selling to the public or other businesses (which include our
> > government & military) at a certain price point.
>
> So you think regulations will improve quality? Should the government write
> specifications for can openers, toaster element thickness, the alloy to use
> in cookware with minimum thickness?
>
> First, let me say that the Chinese are capable of making very high quality
> products.

They're also capable of making products that kill babies.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 16:36:58 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote
> > I know there's a delicate balance; but I want more government
> > regulation not less. In the USA, "free market" just means "take it to
> > China to be manufactured as cheaply as possible" and cheap doesn't
> > just mean "inexpensive", it means "shoddy" too. So the big question
> > for business in these virtually unregulated times of a "free market
> > economy" is to figure out how shoddy a product they can get away with
> > selling to the public or other businesses (which include our
> > government & military) at a certain price point.
>
> So you think regulations will improve quality? Should the government write
> specifications for can openers, toaster element thickness, the alloy to use
> in cookware with minimum thickness?
>
> First, let me say that the Chinese are capable of making very high quality
> products. It is the American writing the specifications that makes the
> products shoddy. Just look at the decline of American made products even
> before they moved overseas. Look back at the cheapening of power tools,
> look at the US made Teflon fry pans of the 1970's, and a lot of other crap
> that was in the stores. Remember when Black & Decker was a high quality
> tool? Now it is junk and I won't touch it.
>
> Sadly, the American public buys by price. You can buy a Kitchen Aid toaster
> for $50, or you can buy a China made GE for WalMart for $8. If no one
> bought the $8 toasters, WalMart would stop having them made and the KA sales
> would increase. I could not find a toaster aside from Dualit (over $200)
> that was not made in China, but some had far better specifications.
>
> We don't need regulation, we need educated consumers that know what a
> quality product is and willing to pay for it. You want to buy junk? We'll
> make junk for you. We want 15¢ hamburgers and if you make them, we'll buy
> billions of them.
>
I guess all you care about is that I said "China".


--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

Gorio > wrote:
> Nad;1656833 Wrote:
>
> Good point, Nad. "Free markets and purchasing from poeple you know will
> weed out the garbage from the good." My bad. When we buy meat from lands
> unknown, that's the kind of meat we get; UNKOWN. I live in a rural area,
> and I know each of the people I buy my pork goodies, beef, lamb and
> chicken from. These things are relatively simple to produce well. But,
> bigger companies will take dangerous short cuts to improve profit
> margins. I'm still against subsidies, because I see big politics making
> money off of them; while the farmer gets screwed.
>
> You're right. Big businesses depend on that ignorance. Little guys,
> though, rely on your faith in them. I'm with ya.
>
> I don't know if that regulation has done a thing, though. Poeple still
> die, and the product is recalled. If I die, that farmer has to hang his
> head in shame forever. They don't sell out real quickly here. Then
> again, I'm not afraid to take my lfe in my hands and drink raw milk when
> I do imbibe. great for cooking, though. Especially when you saparate the
> cream from the buttermilk. that cream is the nectar of the Gods, and the
> right combo of cream and butttermilk makes the best Mexican crema. Can't
> live without it.

I too live in the boondocks. Bessy my first dairy cow was unable to produce
a calf for some reason and is in now in the freezer. I have two new calves,
about ninety percent grass fed, a new Jersey for dairy and a black angus
for beef. I have a dozen chickens and have fresh eggs every morning. Also a
large garden and I have lots of canning in the coming weeks. I know what
exactly what I am eating. If I screw up somehow it will only be me that
suffers, no one else. I will play safe and pasteurize my milk. To each his
own how they live their life.

However, if I chose to sell anything then I would not mind if the USDA did
inspect my place. But I do not sell or give away any food source, all for
myself in my retirement years tending my small personal hobby farm.

Regulations will not end all deaths, but it can reduce them. I doubt that
greedy people feel little shame. Lots of people making money scams.

--
Nad

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:


> Sadly, the American public buys by price. You can buy a Kitchen Aid toaster
> for $50, or you can buy a China made GE for WalMart for $8. If no one
> bought the $8 toasters, WalMart would stop having them made and the KA sales
> would increase.

> We don't need regulation, we need educated consumers that know what a
> quality product is and willing to pay for it.

But how do I, the average household consumer, know the difference? I
would have thought that GE was a quality name. I hear people saying
that Kitchen Aid is junk. How do I know that the toaster that says
"Kitchen Aid" on it and costs US$50 isn't the same exact toaster inside,
made by the same factory and imported into the US by the same company,
that says "GE" on it and costs US$8? Many of us learned this lesson at
an early age. My father bought a cheap imported transistor radio many
decades ago. It said "Magnavox" on it. He paid good money for it, at
an expensive store. It broke down fairly quickly, and he took it back
to the fancy store, expecting some satisfaction. They just laughed at
him. What did he expect? It was a cheap imported product. They told
him to just throw it away, and refused to even look at it.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Friday, September 2, 2011 11:37:08 AM UTC-5, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 22:13:18 +1200, Miche > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Sqwertz > wrote:
> >
> > > don't *by* any bacon
> > >
> > > And farmers cut back on the
> > > *heard* during the perpetually failing economy.
> > >
> >
> > I hope you never have to pay NZ prices for bacon.
> >
> Is someone spoofing sw now? He may be a troll, but he's a better
> speller than that.
>
Even the best spellers brain fart occasionally.

--Bryan

On Sep 3, 6:03*pm, Nad > wrote:
> Gorio > wrote:
> > Nad;1656833 Wrote:
>
> > Good point, Nad. "Free markets and purchasing from poeple you know will
> > weed out the garbage from the good." My bad. When we buy meat from lands
> > unknown, that's the kind of meat we get; UNKOWN. I live in a rural area,
> > and I know each of the people I buy my pork goodies, beef, lamb and
> > chicken from. These things are relatively simple to produce well. But,
> > bigger companies will take dangerous short cuts to improve profit
> > margins. I'm still against subsidies, because I see big politics making
> > money off of them; while the farmer gets screwed.
>
> > You're right. Big businesses depend on that ignorance. Little guys,
> > though, rely on your faith in them. I'm with ya.
>
> > I don't know if that regulation has done a thing, though. Poeple still
> > die, and the product is recalled. If I die, that farmer has to hang his
> > head in shame forever. They don't sell out real quickly here. Then
> > again, I'm not afraid to take my lfe in my hands and drink raw milk when
> > I do imbibe. great for cooking, though. Especially when you saparate the
> > cream from the buttermilk. that cream is the nectar of the Gods, and the
> > right combo of cream and butttermilk makes the best Mexican crema. Can't
> > live without it.
>
> I too live in the boondocks. Bessy my first dairy cow was unable to produce
> a calf for some reason and is in now in the freezer. I have two new calves,
> about ninety percent grass fed, a new Jersey for dairy and a black angus
> for beef. I have a dozen chickens and have fresh eggs every morning. Also a
> large garden and I have lots of canning in the coming weeks. I know what
> exactly what I am eating. If I screw up somehow it will only be me that
> suffers, no one else. I will play safe and pasteurize my milk. To each his
> own how they live their life.
>
> However, if I chose to sell anything then I would not mind if the USDA did
> inspect my place. But I do not sell or give away any food source, all for
> myself in my retirement years tending my small personal hobby farm.
>
> Regulations will not end all deaths, but it can reduce them. I doubt that
> greedy people feel little shame. Lots of people making money scams.
>
> --
> Nad

I wanna come live with you. I miss my chickens and my garden and my
critters. Oh well, things change.

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 16:36:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "sf" > wrote
>> I know there's a delicate balance; but I want more government
>> regulation not less. In the USA, "free market" just means "take it to
>> China to be manufactured as cheaply as possible" and cheap doesn't
>> just mean "inexpensive", it means "shoddy" too. So the big question
>> for business in these virtually unregulated times of a "free market
>> economy" is to figure out how shoddy a product they can get away with
>> selling to the public or other businesses (which include our
>> government & military) at a certain price point.
>
> So you think regulations will improve quality? Should the government write
> specifications for can openers, toaster element thickness, the alloy to use
> in cookware with minimum thickness?
>
> First, let me say that the Chinese are capable of making very high quality
> products. It is the American writing the specifications that makes the
> products shoddy. Just look at the decline of American made products even
> before they moved overseas. Look back at the cheapening of power tools,
> look at the US made Teflon fry pans of the 1970's, and a lot of other crap
> that was in the stores. Remember when Black & Decker was a high quality
> tool? Now it is junk and I won't touch it.
>
> Sadly, the American public buys by price. You can buy a Kitchen Aid toaster
> for $50, or you can buy a China made GE for WalMart for $8. If no one
> bought the $8 toasters, WalMart would stop having them made and the KA sales
> would increase. I could not find a toaster aside from Dualit (over $200)
> that was not made in China, but some had far better specifications.
>
> We don't need regulation, we need educated consumers that know what a
> quality product is and willing to pay for it. You want to buy junk? We'll
> make junk for you. We want 15¢ hamburgers and if you make them, we'll buy
> billions of them.
>

i'm not talking about durable goods as much as food, meat and dairy
products in particular. i don't find the libertarian claim that 'the
market„¢ will self-regulate safety' to be at all convincing.

your pal,
blake

On Sep 4, 10:09*am, blake murphy > wrote:

> i'm not talking about durable goods as much as food, meat and dairy
> products in particular. *i don't find the libertarian claim that 'the
> market™ will self-regulate safety' to be at all convincing.


Exactly. There are too many producers out there who will take short
cuts to increase profits....and endanger their consumers.

"blake murphy" > wrote
>> We don't need regulation, we need educated consumers that know what a
>> quality product is and willing to pay for it. You want to buy junk?
>> We'll
>> make junk for you. We want 15¢ hamburgers and if you make them, we'll
>> buy
>> billions of them.
>>
>
> i'm not talking about durable goods as much as food, meat and dairy
> products in particular. i don't find the libertarian claim that 'the
> market„¢ will self-regulate safety' to be at all convincing.
>
> your pal,
> blake

To clarify, yes we need some regulation and standards for food and
pharmaceuticals. Overall theough, the government keeps growing and that is
not a good thing.

On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 10:18:10 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

>On Sep 4, 10:09*am, blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> i'm not talking about durable goods as much as food, meat and dairy
>> products in particular. *i don't find the libertarian claim that 'the
>> market™ will self-regulate safety' to be at all convincing.
>
>
>Exactly. There are too many producers out there who will take short
>cuts to increase profits....and endanger their consumers.

Durable goods are just as dangerous as foods if not more so;
automobiles are a lot more dangerous than produce... as are services;
public transportation is risky as is a trip to the hair salon, doctor,
and dentist. Unfortunately the majority of people don't have common
sense.

On Sep 3, 6:37*am, Nad > wrote:
> Gorio > wrote:
> > That does mean our Gov. has their hands in everything. Sooner it stops,
> > the better the food. The best farmers here will tell you how the Dept.
> > of Ag is the biggest waste of money. Let them farm. Free market will
> > separate the garbage out from the best.
>
> Not a true statement. Free markets only work if one has free information on
> that market. You do not know if an animal already cut up at the market does
> not have some rare tasteless disease that will effect your health forever..
> I want that regulation that keeps deceased animals off the market and I
> want that government inspector to keep an eye on that farm. I am also for
> increasing taxes to pay for that inspection at no cost to the farmer so he
> stays in business.
>
> Free markets will only help the corrupt get richer and hide the corruption
> without regulations. Business can go out of business and reopen the the
> next day with a new name and packaging without anyone knowing about it and
> with the same filthy business practice.
>
> It is a false statement to say that the "Free markets will separate the
> garbage out from the best". A statement often used by business to hide
> their corruption.

Bah! just get rid or the Securities and Exchange Commission and let
markets police themselves. That will work if insider trading is
legalized. Traders are basically honest. Let them write whatever they
want in prospectuses. It's also a drag on gas station owners that the
Bureau of Weights and Measures checks the accuracy of their pumps.
Have you no trust?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can
get.

Jerry Avins > wrote:

> Traders are basically honest.

That is hilarious,. Thanks I needed a good laugh!

> Have you no trust?

No! Trust belongs to that saying "A sucker is born every minute"

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Nad