On 9/5/2011 6:02 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:25:11 -0500, George Leppla
> > wrote:
>
>> On 9/5/2011 12:10 PM, George wrote:
>>> A lot has happened in the 20 years you have been out of touch. There are
>>> numerous schools that offer 4 semester programs in areas such as HVAC.
>>> Thats two years of classroom plus lots of practical experience.
>>
>>
>> Popular trade here in the South and there is a HVAC school here in
>> Shreveport. Class and work experience. As you can imagine, there is a
>> big demand for residential and commercial AC mechanics down here where
>> we had close to 60 days with 100+ temperatures and there are always help
>> wanted ads in the paper for HVAC people.
>>
>> George L
>
> Same in the north... who do you think maintains all those food store
> reefers and commercial AC. Many do nothing but service semi trailer

The thousands of skilled folks who used to have jobs in or supporting
factories that we no longer have. As I said you need to get out more to
see you live in the world that used to be.


> and RR box car reefers, many only work mass transit AC. Any qualified
> HVAC mechanic is only out of work because they choose to be... that's
> true for all skilled trades. Sometimes tradesmen relocate to where
> there are projects that are paying big bucks but that's why they're
> called Journeymen, that's how I came to work for Lockheed Burbank on
> their SST mock up. I've worked in manufacturing all my life, in fact
> for my first 20 years as a master tool and die maker (must have
> changed jobs twenty times, got a wide range of experience), my last 20
> years I was employed as an ME at a major high energy research facility
> that employed every skilled trade there is, from steamfitter to
> glassblower... I know how to make stuff. I served a formal
> apprenticeship right out of the navy at a company that made the
> insides for electronic vacuum tubes, Ford Radio& Mica Co., had no
> relation to the Ford Motor company. I was trained by an old Svede, I
> was taught gutt... by today's standards that would be deemed abuse.
> I've never been without a job except by choice and always made a
> decent pay check. Occasionally I tried other occupations, even earned
> two college degrees but always came back to manufacturing... I'm a
> hard hat kinda guy who enjoys solving mechanical problems trouble
> shooting machinery out in the field, I hated being a suit chained to a
> desk. The reason I enlisted in the navy is because there was a draft
> then and I didn't want to end up in the army with all that dirt and
> mud like my friends did. Fortunately I knew how to cook so I never
> had to do much deck swabbing and paint chipping. I learned to cook at
> a very early age, most of my family was in the food business. It was
> wartime. There were no daycare centers then. For me daycare
> consisted of long days spent in restaurant kitchens, where even as a
> toddler I was given jobs. Being wartime there were very few men
> about. I was constantly doted over by women, my mother had three
> younger sisters, all had lots of female friends, there were always
> lots of women around. The first time I saw my father was when the war
> ended, I was nearly five years old, he scared the shit out of me, I
> never did get used to him. I really don't like men. I like breasts.
> Breasts are soft, warm, comforting, and smell like yeasty bread dough
> rising... men are hard, cold, calculating, and smell like dirty
> terlits. I hate beards, I could never trust any man with a beard that
> hides their facial expression. I like smooth bare naked female
> flesh... all those women didn't think thay should wear clothing in
> front of a four year old boy, they never gave a thought to being naked
> when they bathed me... hot bath water was dear then, they put me in
> the bath with them. They'd put me into bed with them at night to read
> me stories from little golden books to get me to sleep, was no TV
> then... and winter was cold, wasn't much money to feed the boiler coal
> either, it was much warmer cuddled between breast flesh. At four
> years old I knew more about what women did when they thought no one
> was watching than few men will ever know. Now yoose know.

On 9/5/2011 5:13 PM, sf wrote:

>>>
>>> A lot of good that does, they all want to drive a desk, to nowhere.
>>> People in the US don't know how to make stuff anymore... blame the
>>> totally useless educational system, it pushes academia down the
>>> throats that are best suited for vocational training... what a waste
>>> of talent. Durable goods are produced in other countries not for the
>>> cheap labor, but because they have the skilled craftspeople.
>>
>> Right on. I never bothered with University. To me it was a waste of
>> good money. I settled on being a skilled tradesman. Never had any
>> regrets.
>
> BS. Sheldon had his eyes closed when the steel, garment, shoe,
> washing machine, television (etc) producing industries left for
> foreign shores. They left not because there was a shortage of skilled
> workers, manufacturing left because it was too costly to upgrade their
> plants to modern standards AND the cost of labor was too expensive.
> Ex: Our lumber is harvested here, shipped to china to be milled and
> then shipped back here to be sold. Why? Because it's cheaper to do
> it that way, which means more profit for the company.
>

Pretty much, anyone who makes the pronouncements he makes has either
locked themselves in their house 20 years ago with no access to any
outside events or is simply ignoring reality.

On 9/5/2011 11:59 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 08:11:38 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/5/2011 1:50 AM, projectile vomit chick wrote:
>>> On Sep 4, 4:37 pm, Brooklyn1<Gravesend1> wrote:
>>>> A lot of good that does, they all want to drive a desk, to nowhere.
>>>> People in the US don't know how to make stuff anymore... blame the
>>>> totally useless educational system, it pushes academia down the
>>>> throats that are best suited for vocational training... what a waste
>>>> of talent. Durable goods are produced in other countries not for the
>>>> cheap labor, but because they have the skilled craftspeople.
>>>
>>> How true! Not everyone is meant to go to college. No one goes to
>>> trade school anymore!
>>
>> Sure they do. Some folks are way out of touch and just don't realize how
>> much times have changed. Nephew went to a school for HVAC. He is a smart
>> kid but can't get a job in that trade because there are so many
>> unemployed folks with much higher skills and experience looking for
>> work.
>
> You can't learn HVAC in schools, you need to learn on the job. And
> there are no qualified refrigeration mechanics out of work, there's a
> huge demand.
>

Honestly, that is only in your living in the past fantasy world. You
really need to take the blinders off or just continue to show how very
much out of touch you are.

>> Good friend is a skilled electrician and owns a contracting
>> business.
>
> Skilled schmilled... is he licensed... I doubt it or you'd have said
> it.
>
>> He specializes in industrial work but is quite capable of
>> doing anything.
>
> WTF is "anything"? We have a president who can do "anything", with
> his mouth.
>
>> Since there aren't many factories left there isn't much
>> left for him to do so he has a barebones workforce and is scratching
>> looking for work.
>
> Then he's BSing you, licensed electricians are in big demand, and most
> large plants maintain a staff of electricians... they only hire
> electrical contractors for plant expansions, but that's temporary
> work. If your friend is licenced and can't find work then he's a
> lousy electrician who is ripping people off... there are lots of those
> too. If he's not licensed then he's sub contracting, those are the
> con artists/scamers.

On 9/5/2011 3:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote
>>
>> That's because there are no trade schools, there never were any. The
>> only way to learn a trade is on the job through a bonafide
>> apprenticeship program. All that stimulous money would have done a
>> lot of good were it used to subsidize big manufacturing businesses to
>> sponsor apprenticeship programs...
>
> Due to a shortage of good steelworkers, the unions and construction
> companies did team up and start apprenticeship programs. Both would
> eventually die if they did not.
>
> Trade schools do teach some basics and theory, but you really do have to
> apply them before you truly learn them. Pattern makers, tool and die
> makers have to have the hands to go with the brain.
>
I don't even think there are any of what used to be known as trade
schools anymore. They much morphed into schools offering two year
programs that grant an associates degree. That way there is additional
time to weave in practical experience.


>
>
>> No elected official has ever made anything, that's why
>> manufacturing is so foreign to them...
>
>
>> People
>> who drive a desk are non producers, they are overhead, no different
>> from those who clean toilets, really no difference between a keyboard
>> and a bowl brush, both produce nothing... unless you produce something
>> you are not an asset to an economy, you are a liability.
>
> I'm not sure exactly when, maybe the 60's or so, blue collar work became
> second class and you had to be a college graduate to be "something" is
> society. We're coming full circle now, a good auto mechanic or plumber
> can earn more than a keyboard jockey. The only way to make the economy
> grow and be solid is to take stuff out of the g round and make it into
> useful products like steel and covert the steel into saleable products,
> be it auto, appliances, or medical devices.
>
> We need people to perform all sorts of jobs,, even desk drivers even if
> they are overhead. It has to be in proper proportion.
>
>
>
>

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:05:36 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 08:11:38 -0400, George >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Nephew went to a school for HVAC. He is a smart
>> > kid but can't get a job in that trade because there are so many
>> > unemployed folks with much higher skills and experience looking for
>> > work.
>>
>> Tell your nephew to take a look at underwater welding.
>
>Yah! I've considered that myself. ;-) The risk pay alone is worth it!

Very few people can qualify for underwater welding, anyone who can it
pays very well but typically has a very short shelf life. However one
can make a very good living in a lifetime career as a dry land
welder... there's huge demand for specialty welders... but it's heavy,
dirty, sweaty work... and there's calluses... today's spoiled brats
wouldn't get up off their lazy entitlement butts.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 18:02:46 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> The first time I saw my father was when the war
> ended, I was nearly five years old, he scared the shit out of me, I
> never did get used to him. I really don't like men. I like breasts.
> Breasts are soft, warm, comforting, and smell like yeasty bread dough
> rising... men are hard, cold, calculating, and smell like dirty
> terlits. I hate beards, I could never trust any man with a beard that
> hides their facial expression. I like smooth bare naked female
> flesh... all those women didn't think thay should wear clothing in
> front of a four year old boy, they never gave a thought to being naked
> when they bathed me... hot bath water was dear then, they put me in
> the bath with them. They'd put me into bed with them at night to read
> me stories from little golden books to get me to sleep, was no TV
> then... and winter was cold, wasn't much money to feed the boiler coal
> either, it was much warmer cuddled between breast flesh. At four
> years old I knew more about what women did when they thought no one
> was watching than few men will ever know. Now yoose know.

what a charming combination of pathology and horseshit.

blake

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:05:25 -0400, George wrote:

> On 9/5/2011 5:13 PM, sf wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> A lot of good that does, they all want to drive a desk, to nowhere.
>>>> People in the US don't know how to make stuff anymore... blame the
>>>> totally useless educational system, it pushes academia down the
>>>> throats that are best suited for vocational training... what a waste
>>>> of talent. Durable goods are produced in other countries not for the
>>>> cheap labor, but because they have the skilled craftspeople.
>>>
>>> Right on. I never bothered with University. To me it was a waste of
>>> good money. I settled on being a skilled tradesman. Never had any
>>> regrets.
>>
>> BS. Sheldon had his eyes closed when the steel, garment, shoe,
>> washing machine, television (etc) producing industries left for
>> foreign shores. They left not because there was a shortage of skilled
>> workers, manufacturing left because it was too costly to upgrade their
>> plants to modern standards AND the cost of labor was too expensive.
>> Ex: Our lumber is harvested here, shipped to china to be milled and
>> then shipped back here to be sold. Why? Because it's cheaper to do
>> it that way, which means more profit for the company.
>>
>
> Pretty much, anyone who makes the pronouncements he makes has either
> locked themselves in their house 20 years ago with no access to any
> outside events or is simply ignoring reality.

don't forget stupid or crazy!

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:00:31 -0500, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>>>How true! Not everyone is meant to go to college. No one goes to
>>>trade school anymore!
>>
>> That's because there are no trade schools, there never were any. The
>> only way to learn a trade is on the job through a bonafide
>> apprenticeship program. All that stimulous money would have done a
>> lot of good were it used to subsidize big manufacturing businesses to
>> sponsor apprenticeship programs... you can bet your bippee that Japan,
>> Germany, Israel, China, etal. have real apparenticeship programs for
>> the skilled trades. Unfortunately the US is now a society that
>> doesn't value those who sweat and dirty their hands to earn a living
>> making stuff. No elected official has ever made anything, that's why
>> manufacturing is so foreign to them... obomination never had a callous
>> in is life, other then on his lying tongue. We don't need any
>> stinkin' "shovel ready" programs, we have backhoes, bulldozers, and
>> excavators, now made in Japan. I'd ask young guys who spent all their
>> time working out so they'd have big muscles how that was going to help
>> them earn a living, I'd tell them even Walmart has forklifts. People
>> who drive a desk are non producers, they are overhead, no different
>> from those who clean toilets, really no difference between a keyboard
>> and a bowl brush, both produce nothing... unless you produce something
>> you are not an asset to an economy, you are a liability. It wasn't too
>> very long ago in the US that there were more tool & die shops in every
>> town than gas stations, now the average person has no clue what's a
>> tool and diemaker. There's no manufacturing in the US because it
>> costs much more to import tooling from China than to move the plant
>> there. The heart of every manufacturing company is its toolroom,
>> without it may as well close its doors, and that's precisely what's
>> occuring at an ever accelerating pace. It's more complicated but
>> essentially the US economy is failing because it produces so little
>> due to a great shortage of skilled workers and the mindset that hard
>> physical labor is frowned upon... there's a very simple reason why
>> there are so many juvenile fatsos.
>
> Listen well y'all. Sheldon speaks true wisdom here and I totally agree
> with him. Our lazy fat-assed teenagers are too spoiled nowadays to get
> sweaty or get their hands dirty.

ooh, om agrees with sheldon! he must be right, then.

blake

On 9/6/2011 11:04 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >, >
> wrote:
>
>> A lot has happened in the 20 years you have been out of touch. There are
>> numerous schools that offer 4 semester programs in areas such as HVAC.
>> Thats two years of classroom plus lots of practical experience.
>
> Yah.
>
> And they charge about 12K plus.
> Trade schools tend to be rip-offs and do not follow up on their job
> guarantees.
>
> At least not in health care.
>
> I've seen plenty of co-workers ripped off by the 'nads by "trade
> schools".

Agree, plenty of "schools" have appeared that specialize in lightening
your wallet. Notably the outfits that advertise on late night TV. You
need to check their success rate before deciding.

Then there are honest places. For example in the case of say building
trades there is a local school that was started by an endowment in the
1920s and bears the name of that person. They have an excellent
reputation and have changed with the times. Now their programs are two
year and they award an associates degree. Only problem at the moment is
that employers have lots of experienced folks to pick from due to the
deindustrialization of America and the housing bust.

>
> Pay for college. You will get more attention.
> And better long term pay.

That is one advantage of say the school I mentioned. They award an
accredited associates degree.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:05:25 -0400, George >
wrote:

> Pretty much, anyone who makes the pronouncements he makes has either
> locked themselves in their house 20 years ago with no access to any
> outside events or is simply ignoring reality.

While simultaneously complaining about our socialist president/speaker
of the house, unemployed people milking the government and blaming
immigration for a laundry list of problems?

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 09:55:48 -0400, George >
wrote:

> Obamas good buddy Inmelt (the CEO of GE, one of the most notable
> companies for taking jobs offshore and head of Obamas "job council)
> could tell you all about it.

I can only hope Inmelt is an example of "keep your friends close and
keep your enemies closer".

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:13:44 -0400, George >
wrote:

> I don't even think there are any of what used to be known as trade
> schools anymore. They much morphed into schools offering two year
> programs that grant an associates degree. That way there is additional
> time to weave in practical experience.

Around here, that's called a Junior College. Ours was $13 a unit the
last time I looked (mainly tax payer supported). It's money well
spent by both students and tax payers.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:00:31 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

> We have raised (mostly, I know it does
> not cover some of the hard working good people that some have raised!) a
> generation of video game players that expect to earn a living doing beta
> testing.

Times haven't changed much. Our generation thought their first job
would be as company president.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

Omelet wrote:
>George Sock wrote:
>
>> A lot has happened in the 20 years you have been out of touch. There are
>> numerous schools that offer 4 semester programs in areas such as HVAC.
>> Thats two years of classroom plus lots of practical experience.
>
>Yah.
>
>And they charge about 12K plus.
>Trade schools tend to be rip-offs and do not follow up on their job
>guarantees.
>
>At least not in health care.
>
>I've seen plenty of co-workers ripped off by the 'nads by "trade
>schools".
>
>Pay for college. You will get more attention.
>And better long term pay.

Trade schools, what a stupid concept... you cannot learn any trade out
of a book. And high school shop classes teach nothing... no one will
pay someone wages who can make a pair infantile bookends in six
months... those shop classes are how they keep the delinquents
occupied until they are old enough to drop out, out of sight and out
of mind... and the so-called educators believe they did their job,
NOT! A real educator should be able to cull out those who will never
succeed in academia but will do well in the arts. By the time a kid
is fourteen they should have enough of the basic 3 Rs to lead a
productive life in any vocation, that's when it's time to begin a
formal apprenticeship, older is too late. Whoever came up with the
fercocktah idea that every kid has to sit in a classroom until they're
eighteen was a lunatic. BOCES is a failed attempt, another lunatic's
brain child... industry and government need to install real
apprenticeship programs, so that by the time one is 18 years old they
are capable to go out and ply their trade and support themselves and a
family if they so choose... when did it come to where kids can live in
their parent's basement until they're forty+ before they need to
behave like adults... yer eighteen, ya don't wanna work, GTF out ya
little useless bastid! Private trade schools have no more value than
preparing someone to make license plates in prison. And just like not
everyone can succeed in academia not everyone was born with the ennate
talent to succeed in a trade... someone gotta clean terlits. The US
educational system is a disaster... Trillion$ in school taxes wasted.
Not everyone needs to become a scientist, no one needs to be adept in
calculous to build a space ship... no PhD ever built anything,
talented hands/creative minds do the actual making, not dreamers. In
case anyone doesn't know scientists are not paid very well, most are
housed, given access to the most powerful computers on the planet, and
given a stipend to cover living expenses. The craftspeople
(tool/instrument makers) who actually turn the theoretical into
reality and fabricate the hardware are paid much more. This no talent
George Sock has obviously never been gainfully employed, another
friggin' know nothing parasite.

On 9/6/2011 7:59 AM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:13:44 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> I don't even think there are any of what used to be known as trade
>> schools anymore. They much morphed into schools offering two year
>> programs that grant an associates degree. That way there is additional
>> time to weave in practical experience.
>
> Around here, that's called a Junior College. Ours was $13 a unit the
> last time I looked (mainly tax payer supported). It's money well
> spent by both students and tax payers.
>

I went to electronics school years after I graduated from college. Every
month, the secretary would come into the class and hand me a bill for
$64. I guess I was one of the few there that paid the tuition monthly.
The other students were mostly out of high school and it was obvious
that they weren't footing the bill. You really can't appreciate an
education unless you're paying for it yourself.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:49:05 -0700, sf > wrote:
snip
complaining about our socialist president/speaker
>of the house, unemployed people milking the government and blaming
>immigration for a laundry list of problems?

There is no doubt that there are many unemployed people milking the
government programs. . .they have been taught this as a way of life
from birth. They know more about cheating the system than I could be
taught in a class. What hurts me is that all the honest,
hard-working, deserving people get lumped in with them. And, when
the programs get cut in some way, it's the honest folks that get
punished because they don't know how to work the system. Meanwhile,
the others go on as before.
Janet US

On 06/09/2011 2:01 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

>
> Trade schools, what a stupid concept... you cannot learn any trade out
> of a book. And high school shop classes teach nothing... no one will
> pay someone wages who can make a pair infantile bookends in six
> months... those shop classes are how they keep the delinquents
> occupied until they are old enough to drop out, out of sight and out
> of mind...

I don't think that educators are unaware of the fact that some people
simply aren't academically oriented and that school is just a glorified
baby sitting service. Yet, there is still some benefit to teaching them
trades. While they may not be great at math or history, some of them are
mechanically inclined and do well in shop classes. My oldest brother did
badly in elementary school and was steered towards vocational training.
He became an automechanic and was very good at it. He made a pretty
good living working on heavy duty trucks.

My wife used to teach at a school for the mentally retarded, and at the
time that term was still acceptable. One of the teachers at the school
taught programs that would lead to employment they were capable of
handling, like lawn maintenance and janitorial services. He had
contracts with people for lawn work and cleaning. We used to hire them
to do our lawn, and I was impressed with the way he handled those kids.
I was home one day when I was home sleeping I heard the van pull in. By
the time I got some clothes on and went to the other side to look out
the window, the crew had unloaded and started four lawn mowers and were
already mowing. It may not be much of a career for some people but it
would probably be the best they would ever get.

From HVAC to women's breasts, in one post. Sheldon, your mind is very
strange.

N.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:36:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:49:05 -0700, sf > wrote:
> snip
> complaining about our socialist president/speaker
> >of the house, unemployed people milking the government and blaming
> >immigration for a laundry list of problems?
>
> There is no doubt that there are many unemployed people milking the
> government programs. . .they have been taught this as a way of life
> from birth. They know more about cheating the system than I could be
> taught in a class. What hurts me is that all the honest,
> hard-working, deserving people get lumped in with them. And, when
> the programs get cut in some way, it's the honest folks that get
> punished because they don't know how to work the system. Meanwhile,
> the others go on as before.

I think everybody knows someone who works the system, but I don't
paint everyone who draws it with the same brush. It's always a
grasshopper and ants story. Those who cheat will never get anywhere
(unless they're at the other end of the spectrum-rich people who
cheat) while those who don't will make it sooner or later.


--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

sf > wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:36:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick

> I think everybody knows someone who works the system, but I don't
> paint everyone who draws it with the same brush. It's always a
> grasshopper and ants story. Those who cheat will never get anywhere
> (unless they're at the other end of the spectrum-rich people who
> cheat) while those who don't will make it sooner or later.
>

Unless, like Enron, the rich manage to permanently ruin hundreds of
non-cheaters. It's not much consolation that most of the rich cheaters
ended up in jail.

On Sep 6, 2:01*pm, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
> >George Sock wrote:
>
> >> A lot has happened in the 20 years you have been out of touch. There are
> >> numerous schools that offer 4 semester programs in areas such as HVAC.
> >> Thats two *years of classroom plus lots of practical experience.
>
> >Yah.
>
> >And they charge about 12K plus.
> >Trade schools tend to be rip-offs and do not follow up on their job
> >guarantees.
>
> >At least not in health care.
>
> >I've seen plenty of co-workers ripped off by the 'nads by "trade
> >schools".
>
> >Pay for college. You will get more attention.
> >And better long term pay.
>
> Trade schools, what a stupid concept... you cannot learn any trade out
> of a book. *And high school shop classes teach nothing... no one will
> pay someone wages who can make a pair infantile bookends in six
> months... those shop classes are how they keep the delinquents
> occupied until they are old enough to drop out, out of sight and out
> of mind... and the so-called educators believe they did their job,
> NOT! *A real educator should be able to cull out those who will never
> succeed in academia but will do well in the arts. *By the time a kid
> is fourteen they should have enough of the basic 3 Rs to lead a
> productive life in any vocation, that's when it's time to begin a
> formal apprenticeship, older is too late. *Whoever came up with the
> fercocktah idea that every kid has to sit in a classroom until they're
> eighteen was a lunatic. *BOCES is a failed attempt, another lunatic's
> brain child... industry and government need to install real
> apprenticeship programs, so that by the time one is 18 years old they
> are capable to go out and ply their trade and support themselves and a
> family if they so choose... when did it come to where kids can live in
> their parent's basement until they're forty+ before they need to
> behave like adults... yer eighteen, ya don't wanna work, GTF out ya
> little useless bastid! *Private trade schools have no more value than
> preparing someone to make license plates in prison. *And just like not
> everyone can succeed in academia not everyone was born with the ennate
> talent to succeed in a trade... someone gotta clean terlits. *The US
> educational system is a disaster... Trillion$ in school taxes wasted.
> Not everyone needs to become a scientist, no one needs to be adept in
> calculous to build a space ship... no PhD ever built anything,
> talented hands/creative minds do the actual making, not dreamers. *In
> case anyone doesn't know scientists are not paid very well, most are
> housed, given access to the most powerful computers on the planet, and
> given a stipend to cover living expenses. *The craftspeople
> (tool/instrument makers) who actually turn the theoretical into
> reality and fabricate the hardware are paid much more. *This no talent
> George Sock has obviously never been gainfully employed, another
> friggin' know nothing parasite.

I learned the basics in trade school. When I came out, I was ready
for an apprenticeship. We learned enough in trade school to prepare
us for learning in the real world. When you started an
apprenticeship, the employer expected you to know what a sine bar was,
how to sharpen tooling, rakes, angles, cutting speeds as related to
material being machined, etc. However, it still took and takes years
to make a machinist.

On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:28:44 -0700 (PDT), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

> I learned the basics in trade school. When I came out, I was ready
> for an apprenticeship. We learned enough in trade school to prepare
> us for learning in the real world. When you started an
> apprenticeship, the employer expected you to know what a sine bar was,
> how to sharpen tooling, rakes, angles, cutting speeds as related to
> material being machined, etc. However, it still took and takes years
> to make a machinist.

Community colleges also retrain workers and upgrade their skills.
Some is regular course work and some is contracted by the employer.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

sf wrote:
> Janet Bostwick > wrote:
>
>> There is no doubt that there are many unemployed people milking the
>> government programs. . .they have been taught this as a way of life
>> from birth. They know more about cheating the system than I could be
>> taught in a class. What hurts me is that all the honest,
>> hard-working, deserving people get lumped in with them. And, when
>> the programs get cut in some way, it's the honest folks that get
>> punished because they don't know how to work the system. Meanwhile,
>> the others go on as before.
>
> I think everybody knows someone who works the system, but I don't
> paint everyone who draws it with the same brush. It's always a
> grasshopper and ants story. Those who cheat will never get anywhere
> (unless they're at the other end of the spectrum-rich people who
> cheat) while those who don't will make it sooner or later.

There's also a problem with the underlying assumptions of the
unemployment system. Folks work decades to build their careers. Then
they get laid off and go on unemployment. While on unemployment they
look for jobs that pay similar to what they used to make. In today's
economy there are jobs that went away forever and there just aren't any
new ones that pay similar and are in similar fields. Who wants to lose
thirty years worth of hard work and advancement just to take a job that
pays worse than unemployment?

One of the 99 weekers who saw their unemployment run out, that's who.
One who lost everything, went bankrupt and now can't find a job in their
field because folks wtiha bankruptcy on their record are not welcome, no
matter that the layoff is what triggered the bankruptcy. In a good
economy there are good jobs to be found. In a bad economy there are no
good jobs to be found.

On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:43:30 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:

>
>From HVAC to women's breasts, in one post. Sheldon, your mind is very
>strange.

You don't know the half of it.

On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:03:13 +0000 (UTC), Hackmatack wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:36:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>
>> I think everybody knows someone who works the system, but I don't
>> paint everyone who draws it with the same brush. It's always a
>> grasshopper and ants story. Those who cheat will never get anywhere
>> (unless they're at the other end of the spectrum-rich people who
>> cheat) while those who don't will make it sooner or later.
>>
>
> Unless, like Enron, the rich manage to permanently ruin hundreds of
> non-cheaters. It's not much consolation that most of the rich cheaters
> ended up in jail.

most?

your pal,
blake

blake murphy > wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:03:13 +0000 (UTC), Hackmatack wrote:
>
>> sf > wrote:
>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:36:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
>>
>>> I think everybody knows someone who works the system, but I don't
>>> paint everyone who draws it with the same brush. It's always a
>>> grasshopper and ants story. Those who cheat will never get anywhere
>>> (unless they're at the other end of the spectrum-rich people who
>>> cheat) while those who don't will make it sooner or later.
>>>
>>
>> Unless, like Enron, the rich manage to permanently ruin hundreds of
>> non-cheaters. It's not much consolation that most of the rich cheaters
>> ended up in jail.
>
> most?
>
> your pal,
> blake

Yeah, that's my eternal optimism...

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 21:34:08 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:43:30 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>From HVAC to women's breasts, in one post. Sheldon, your mind is very
>>strange.
>
> You don't know the half of it.

i don't want to know the tenth of it.

blake

On 9/6/2011 4:03 PM, Hackmatack wrote:

> Unless, like Enron, the rich manage to permanently ruin hundreds of
> non-cheaters. It's not much consolation that most of the rich cheaters
> ended up in jail.

Not to mention doctors, nurses, therapists, etc who are cheating
medicare. All over the news today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...DAK_story.html

On 9/6/2011 11:04 AM, Omelet wrote:

> Pay for college. You will get more attention.
> And better long term pay.

Even if you start college at 46 years old.

On Sep 6, 11:00*am, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
> *Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> > >How true! *Not everyone is meant to go to college. *No one goes to
> > >trade school anymore!
>
> > That's because there are no trade schools, there never were any. *The
> > only way to learn a trade is on the job through a bonafide
> > apprenticeship program. *All that stimulous money would have done a
> > lot of good were it used to subsidize big manufacturing businesses to
> > sponsor apprenticeship programs... you can bet your bippee that Japan,
> > Germany, Israel, China, etal. have real apparenticeship programs for
> > the skilled trades. *Unfortunately the US is now a society that
> > doesn't value those who sweat and dirty their hands to earn a living
> > making stuff. *No elected official has ever made anything, that's why
> > manufacturing is so foreign to them... obomination never had a callous
> > in is life, other then on his lying tongue. *We don't need any
> > stinkin' "shovel ready" programs, we have backhoes, bulldozers, and
> > excavators, now made in Japan. *I'd ask young guys who spent all their
> > time working out so they'd have big muscles how that was going to help
> > them earn a living, I'd tell them even Walmart has forklifts. *People
> > who drive a desk are non producers, they are overhead, no different
> > from those who clean toilets, really no difference between a keyboard
> > and a bowl brush, both produce nothing... unless you produce something
> > you are not an asset to an economy, you are a liability. It wasn't too
> > very long ago in the US that there were more tool & die shops in every
> > town than gas stations, now the average person has no clue what's a
> > tool and diemaker. *There's no manufacturing in the US because it
> > costs much more to import tooling from China than to move the plant
> > there. *The heart of every manufacturing company is its toolroom,
> > without it may as well close its doors, and that's precisely what's
> > occuring at an ever accelerating pace. *It's more complicated but
> > essentially the US economy is failing because it produces so little
> > due to a great shortage of skilled workers and the mindset that hard
> > physical labor is frowned upon... there's a very simple reason why
> > there are so many juvenile fatsos.
>
> Listen well y'all. *Sheldon speaks true wisdom here and I totally agree
> with him. *Our lazy fat-assed teenagers are too spoiled nowadays to get
> sweaty or get their hands dirty.
>

That's very true. I overheard a couple of kids talking the other
day. One of them worked at East Side Mario's. He was complaining
about how hard it was to work in the Kitchen. If he thought that was
hard, he should have worked the number two tread tuber at Uniroyal
Tire.
I worked very busy restaurants when I was much younger, everything
from busboy to dishwasher to cooking, and when it got busy you had to
work very hard. But we never complained about it.


> My favorite Thomas Edison quote runs something like:
>
> "Opportunity is missed by most people because it's usually dressed in
> overalls and looks like work".
>
> Truer words were never spoken. *We have raised (mostly, I know it does
> not cover some of the hard working good people that some have raised!) a
> generation of video game players that expect to earn a living doing beta
> testing.
> --
> Peace, Om
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
>
> "Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
> come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Mark Twain

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:53:11 -0400, George >
wrote:


>
>Again, Sheldon without a clue. The biggest plant left in my area
>contracts out *ALL* of their electrical and mechanical work. Since there
>aren't many plants left in the US (its called deindustrialization, and
>it has been happening during your 20 year unaware period) there is a lot
>less need for services my friend provides. In economic terms it is
>called the multiplier effect.

sHemp is full of shit as usual. I spent 12 years as the head
electrician for a large management company but I didn't work for them.
I was contracted out by a contractor. They did the same thing with a
painter, carpenter, and HVAC guy. When we didn't have a build-out or
tennant work we did maintenence and got organized. The building the
main office was in had an atrium that was maintained by a contracted
full time person. The porter, matron, and cleaning crew were also
contracted out.

You're being very generous with your "20 year unaware period." He's
clueless and always has been.

Lou

On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 16:01:03 -0400, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:37:30 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> Durable goods are produced in other countries not for the
>> cheap labor, but because they have the skilled craftspeople.
>
>what ****ing rubbish.
>
>blake

This is the kind of crap people were missing. Amazing.

Lou