I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.

If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
served separately then it's sauce.

Thoughts

Dimitri

On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 12:22:19 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
Not Italian, wasn't brought up with Italians, have no concept about
differences other than some call it the red stuff gravy... usually
those from the South of Italy and Sicily. Oh - gravy is served with
polenta, that's the other thing I heard from those who call it gravy.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

Il 06/09/2011 21:22, Dimitri ha scritto:

> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts

Much of that is true but only if one makes some distinction:
First: nowadays in Italy, gravy is common only in restaurants and in a
few households.
Second: in central and southern Italy people cooks meat in tomato sauce
and then eparates the two things. The tomato sauce is called "ragu'" (or
"rrau'") and is used to dress pasta, while the meat is served as a
second course retaining some of the auce.
Then, I know I still haven't perfectly understood what gravy means
overseas. Isn't gravy a sauce composed *mainly* of sauces released by
the meat while cooking, thickened or not in the way you prefer?
--
Vilco
And the Family Stone
Caschi come il cacio sui maccheroni, cerchiamo giusto gente come te.

Il 06/09/2011 22:20, sf ha scritto:

> Not Italian, wasn't brought up with Italians, have no concept about
> differences other than some call it the red stuff gravy... usually
> those from the South of Italy and Sicily. Oh - gravy is served with
> polenta, that's the other thing I heard from those who call it gravy.

I've read som many differing definitions of gravy that I xcouldn't
precisely figure oug what we're talking about when the subiject is
gravy. Can you find me a definition that is sound to you and, in your
opinion, is generally acceptable?
--
Vilco
And the Family Stone
Ovviamente so benissimo...

On Sep 6, 3:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts
>
> Dimitri

Maybe that's an Italian definition. If I have roast duckling with
orange sauce, then the orange sauce, that's served on the side is a
sauce. What gravy means to me is a sauce(???)made from the pan
drippings from a roast. Skimmed of fat, stock added, the fat used to
make a roux, the drippings added etc. Spaghetti topped with tomato
sauce; it's still topped with a sauce. There is no meat here btw...

On 9/6/2011 3:22 PM, Dimitri wrote:
> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>

It is common for authors of Indian cookbooks to refer to the sauce in
which anything is cooked as "gravy".

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 22:24:52 +0200, ViLco > wrote:

> Il 06/09/2011 22:20, sf ha scritto:
>
> > Not Italian, wasn't brought up with Italians, have no concept about
> > differences other than some call it the red stuff gravy... usually
> > those from the South of Italy and Sicily. Oh - gravy is served with
> > polenta, that's the other thing I heard from those who call it gravy.
>
> I've read som many differing definitions of gravy that I xcouldn't
> precisely figure oug what we're talking about when the subiject is
> gravy. Can you find me a definition that is sound to you and, in your
> opinion, is generally acceptable?

No I can't and I wasn't curious enough to ask when I had the
opportunity. I only know that Italian "gravy" is red (tomato), not
the brown, meat juice based, color I think of when I say gravy.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On 9/6/2011 2:22 PM, Dimitri wrote:
> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts
>
> Dimitri

I think the term "gravy" for tomato-based sauce is something coined by
Sicilian immigrants to the US. Having grown up with many
Italian-Americans and having traveled in Italy, I have never heard the
term "gravy" used by any group other than Sicilian-Americans.

Maybe someone didn't know the term for tomato sauce in English and
thought "gravy" suited well enough. Or maybe it was an English-speaker
who couldn't understand the Italian cook and misused the term "gravy"

Whatever the origin, it stuck.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
eb.com...
> On 9/6/2011 2:22 PM, Dimitri wrote:
>> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>>
>> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
>> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
>> served separately then it's sauce.
>>
>> Thoughts
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> I think the term "gravy" for tomato-based sauce is something coined by
> Sicilian immigrants to the US. Having grown up with many
> Italian-Americans and having traveled in Italy, I have never heard the
> term "gravy" used by any group other than Sicilian-Americans.
>
> Maybe someone didn't know the term for tomato sauce in English and thought
> "gravy" suited well enough. Or maybe it was an English-speaker who
> couldn't understand the Italian cook and misused the term "gravy"
>
> Whatever the origin, it stuck.
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south Texas
> Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.


We are Northern Italian, and everything we put on pasta (other than pesto)
was "gravy". We never put red stuff on pasta, it was always meaty.
Marinara Sauce - never heard of it when we were kids. On the rare occasion
we went out, we went to Italian restaurant, only to complain how "tomato-y"
things were (vs. meaty stuff that had tomatoes in it, of course). I could
never figure out why we went to eat food we knew could never be as good as
home. We should have gone to a different type of cuisine.

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts
>

My Italian MIL calls it red gravy whether it has meat in it or not.

On Sep 6, 12:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts
>
> Dimitri

The Italian population in New Orleans, mainly from Sicily, call it
gravy. Period. Sunday Gravy usually has two or three different
meats in it.

This dish is called 'Creole' Beef Daube.....it's really a Sicilian/
Creole fusion and is one of my most favorite 'Sunday Gravy' type
dishes.
It's killer.

http://www.hizzoners.com/recipes/mea...ole-beef-daube

In article >, ViLco >
wrote:

> Il 06/09/2011 22:20, sf ha scritto:
>
> > Not Italian, wasn't brought up with Italians, have no concept about
> > differences other than some call it the red stuff gravy... usually
> > those from the South of Italy and Sicily. Oh - gravy is served with
> > polenta, that's the other thing I heard from those who call it gravy.
>
> I've read som many differing definitions of gravy that I xcouldn't
> precisely figure oug what we're talking about when the subiject is
> gravy. Can you find me a definition that is sound to you and, in your
> opinion, is generally acceptable?

It's not just about definitions, it also a matter of local usage. I grew
up in the SF Bay Area and never heard any kind of sauce used in Italian
dishes being called 'gravy'. When I worked up in the Sierra foothills
(Amador County) where you find many descendants of Italian miners, the
word 'gravy' was commonly used for tomato or meat sauces. And a lot of
those families were from northern Italy.

D.M.

"Don Martinich" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, ViLco >
> wrote:
>
>> Il 06/09/2011 22:20, sf ha scritto:
>>
>> > Not Italian, wasn't brought up with Italians, have no concept about
>> > differences other than some call it the red stuff gravy... usually
>> > those from the South of Italy and Sicily. Oh - gravy is served with
>> > polenta, that's the other thing I heard from those who call it gravy.
>>
>> I've read som many differing definitions of gravy that I xcouldn't
>> precisely figure oug what we're talking about when the subiject is
>> gravy. Can you find me a definition that is sound to you and, in your
>> opinion, is generally acceptable?
>
> It's not just about definitions, it also a matter of local usage. I grew
> up in the SF Bay Area

me too.

and never heard any kind of sauce used in Italian
> dishes being called 'gravy'.

and it was gravy.

When I worked up in the Sierra foothills
> (Amador County) where you find many descendants of Italian miners, the
> word 'gravy' was commonly used for tomato or meat sauces. And a lot of
> those families were from northern Italy.

yep, Northern.

On 09/06/2011 12:22 PM, Dimitri wrote:
> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts

It's a regional thing. My east-coast relatives, some of them call it
"red gravy" (my mom's half Italian). *shrug* There's no sense holding
the line on an imaginary rule about language.

Serene

--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

On Sep 6, 5:50*pm, Don Martinich > wrote:
>
> It's not just about definitions, it also a matter of local usage. I grew
> up in the SF Bay Area and never heard any kind of sauce used in Italian
> dishes being called 'gravy'. When I worked up in the Sierra foothills
> (Amador County) where you find many descendants of Italian miners, the
> word 'gravy' was commonly used for tomato or meat sauces. And a lot of
> those families were from northern Italy.
>
> D.M.

That's interesting because one the Italians I know who always calls it
gravy
(the one who puts it over polenta) was born & raised in San Francisco.

Don Martinich wrote:

>> I've read som many differing definitions of gravy that I xcouldn't
>> precisely figure oug what we're talking about when the subiject is
>> gravy. Can you find me a definition that is sound to you and, in your
>> opinion, is generally acceptable?

> It's not just about definitions, it also a matter of local usage.

Very true for the majority of food preparations.

> I grew up in the SF Bay Area and never heard any kind of sauce used in
> Italian dishes being called 'gravy'.

Me too

> When I worked up in the Sierra
> foothills (Amador County) where you find many descendants of Italian
> miners, the word 'gravy' was commonly used for tomato or meat sauces.
> And a lot of those families were from northern Italy.

They called "gravy" what they would have called "sugo" in italian, probably.
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

Pico Rico wrote:

> We are Northern Italian, and everything we put on pasta (other than
> pesto) was "gravy". We never put red stuff on pasta, it was always
> meaty.

Finally! Someone with a correct vision of italian sauces.

> Marinara Sauce - never heard of it when we were kids. On the
> rare occasion we went out, we went to Italian restaurant, only to
> complain how "tomato-y" things were (vs. meaty stuff that had
> tomatoes in it, of course).

The sad thing about italian immigration to the US is that the majority were
from the south: tomato everywhere.

> I could never figure out why we went to eat food we knew could never be as
> good as home. We should have gone to a different type of cuisine.

LOL
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

Julie Bove wrote:

>> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
>> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated
>> out or served separately then it's sauce.

> My Italian MIL calls it red gravy whether it has meat in it or not.

Ah! So the correct translation for "gravy" would be "sugo", which is a
generic name for "sauce" with no precise borders: a sugo can be made without
any meat or could contain meat or fish or whatever. It's a very generic
term, it could even refer to the liquids dropping off a sandwich...
I believed gravy was some more specific, as "fondo", which is *always* meat
based. Saying "sugo" is almost as generic as saying "condimento" (dressing).
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

ImStillMags wrote:

> The Italian population in New Orleans, mainly from Sicily, call it
> gravy. Period. Sunday Gravy usually has two or three different
> meats in it.

If I understood correctly, you're referring to a sauce used to dress pasta.
Is the meat ground or in chunks?

> This dish is called 'Creole' Beef Daube.....it's really a Sicilian/
> Creole fusion and is one of my most favorite 'Sunday Gravy' type
> dishes.
> It's killer.
>
> http://www.hizzoners.com/recipes/mea...ole-beef-daube

Sound nice, all tipical italian ingredients. I feared to find coconut in it

--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

Serene Vannoy wrote:

>> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
>> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated
>> out or served separately then it's sauce.

> It's a regional thing. My east-coast relatives, some of them call it
> "red gravy" (my mom's half Italian). *shrug* There's no sense holding
> the line on an imaginary rule about language.

There's a lot of sense in trying to undesrtand what a word means somewhere
else.
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

On Sep 7, 12:24*am, "ViLco" > wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote:
> > The Italian population in New Orleans, mainly from Sicily, call it
> > gravy. *Period. * Sunday Gravy usually has two or three different
> > meats in it.
>
> If I understood correctly, you're referring to a sauce used to dress pasta.
> Is the meat ground or in chunks?
>
> > This dish is called 'Creole' *Beef Daube.....it's really a Sicilian/
> > Creole fusion and is one of my most favorite 'Sunday Gravy' type
> > dishes.
> > It's killer.
>
> >http://www.hizzoners.com/recipes/mea...ole-beef-daube
>
> Sound nice, all tipical italian ingredients. I feared to find coconut in it
>
> --
> ViLco
> Let the liquor do the thinking

The meat is cooked in the sauce then removed and either sliced or
chunked and and served over the
pasta with the sauce.

Serene Vannoy > wrote:

>It's a regional thing. My east-coast relatives, some of them call it
>"red gravy" (my mom's half Italian). *shrug* There's no sense holding
>the line on an imaginary rule about language.

I agree. As a datapoint, I did not hear of the "gravy" terminology
until the modern (Internet) era. Not from my Sicilian mother or
her relatives, and not from anyone in Italy (the latter makes sense
as they were not speaking English in the first place...).


S.

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> As a datapoint, I did not hear of the "gravy" terminology
> until the modern (Internet) era.

For me it was two decades later than that. Not until well after the
turn of the century. Either on a FoodTV show or here on RFC. Someone
decided to call red sauce gravy? Okay. It's regional? Okay. It's
fascinating how regional terms end up spreading? Definitely.

On Sep 6, 12:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts

Bastianich is Croatian. I would accept her judgment regarding
cevapcici, but not on the gravy vs. sauce issue.

On Sep 7, 12:18*am, "ViLco" > wrote:
> Pico Rico wrote:
> > We are Northern Italian, and everything we put on pasta (other than
> > pesto) was "gravy". *We never put red stuff on pasta, it was always
> > meaty.
>
> Finally! Someone with a correct vision of italian sauces.
>
> > Marinara Sauce - never heard of it when we were kids. On the
> > rare occasion we went out, we went to Italian restaurant, only to
> > complain how "tomato-y" things were (vs. meaty stuff that had
> > tomatoes in it, of course).
>
> The sad thing about italian immigration to the US is that the majority were
> from the south: tomato everywhere.
>
> > I could never figure out why we went to eat food we knew could never be as
> > good as home. *We should have gone to a different type of cuisine.
>
> LOL

Poor people emigrate for a better life. People who have a pretty good
life stay put. Italians in America are mostly from Sicilia, Napoli,
and Calabria.

Doug Freyburger wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Steve Pope wrote:
> >
> > As a datapoint, I did not hear of the "gravy" terminology
> > until the modern (Internet) era.
>
> For me it was two decades later than that. Not until well after the
> turn of the century. Either on a FoodTV show or here on RFC. Someone
> decided to call red sauce gravy? Okay. It's regional? Okay. It's
> fascinating how regional terms end up spreading? Definitely.

Yup. Here's one from back home. *Regional* name would be red gravy or
red eye gravy. The plot thickens though.

Red eye gravy is a classic that uses coffee and pan drippings normally.
My area? Nope. It's mashed red beans with the juice and cooked in
with a bit of ham, specifically the 'eye' (little round bone that looks
a bit like an eye). AKA, 'red eye gravy'.

--

On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:52:14 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> Steve Pope wrote:
> >
> > As a datapoint, I did not hear of the "gravy" terminology
> > until the modern (Internet) era.
>
> For me it was two decades later than that. Not until well after the
> turn of the century. Either on a FoodTV show or here on RFC. Someone
> decided to call red sauce gravy? Okay. It's regional? Okay. It's
> fascinating how regional terms end up spreading? Definitely.

From what I hear, pronouncing pasta e fagioli "pasta fazool" is a
regional thing too.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:08:48 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

> On Sep 6, 12:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> > I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
> >
> > If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> > If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> > served separately then it's sauce.
> >
> > Thoughts
>
> Bastianich is Croatian. I would accept her judgment regarding
> cevapcici, but not on the gravy vs. sauce issue.

It was part of Italy when she was a kid.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 9/8/2011 6:14 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:52:14 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > wrote:
>
>> Steve Pope wrote:
>>>
>>> As a datapoint, I did not hear of the "gravy" terminology
>>> until the modern (Internet) era.
>>
>> For me it was two decades later than that. Not until well after the
>> turn of the century. Either on a FoodTV show or here on RFC. Someone
>> decided to call red sauce gravy? Okay. It's regional? Okay. It's
>> fascinating how regional terms end up spreading? Definitely.
>
> From what I hear, pronouncing pasta e fagioli "pasta fazool" is a
> regional thing too.
>

I thought that's how it's supposed to be pronounced.

Janet, who grew up with "The Sopranos"

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

Janet Wilder > wrote:

>On 9/8/2011 6:14 PM, sf wrote:

>> From what I hear, pronouncing pasta e fagioli "pasta fazool" is a
>> regional thing too.

>I thought that's how it's supposed to be pronounced.


Not in standard Italian. If the final syllable of an Italian word
is not pronounced, then that is (almost always) dialect.



S.

On Sep 6, 2:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> served separately then it's sauce.
>
> Thoughts

My thoughts are that I'm sick of hearing about greasy dagos and their
disgusting food every minute of the day.

Flame on!

On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:47:15 -0700 (PDT), projectile vomit chick
> wrote:

> On Sep 6, 2:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> > I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
> >
> > If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> > If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> > served separately then it's sauce.
> >
> > Thoughts
>
> My thoughts are that I'm sick of hearing about greasy dagos and their
> disgusting food every minute of the day.
>
> Flame on!

You can always learn how to fine tune your kill file since it bothers
you so much. Oh, that's right. You'd rather complain obnoxiously
instead of actually doing something to remedy your little problem.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:17:33 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:47:15 -0700 (PDT), projectile vomit chick
> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 6, 2:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
>> > I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>> >
>> > If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
>> > If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
>> > served separately then it's sauce.
>> >
>> > Thoughts
>>
>> My thoughts are that I'm sick of hearing about greasy dagos and their
>> disgusting food every minute of the day.
>>
>> Flame on!
>
>You can always learn how to fine tune your kill file since it bothers
>you so much. Oh, that's right. You'd rather complain obnoxiously
>instead of actually doing something to remedy your little problem.

What's a greasy dago?

The WOPS in Brooklyn never called it tomato sauce, it was always
tomato gravy... and they never said pasta, it was all macaronis
(always plural).

ViLco wrote:

> Second: in central and southern Italy people cooks meat in tomato sauce
> and then eparates the two things. The tomato sauce is called "ragu'" (or
> "rrau'") and is used to dress pasta, while the meat is served as a
> second course retaining some of the auce.

This is how my family served it, but my father always told that since
"meat was dear" and eaten far, far less often the cooked meat might not
even be served the same day the sauce was cooked but instead used for
another meal altogether.

On Sep 6, 4:23*pm, ViLco > wrote:
> Il 06/09/2011 21:22, Dimitri ha scritto:
>
> > I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.

On Sep 8, 9:12*pm, Janet Wilder > wrote:
> On 9/8/2011 6:14 PM, sf wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:52:14 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > > *wrote:
>
> >> Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >>> As a datapoint, I did not hear of the "gravy" terminology
> >>> until the modern (Internet) era.
>
> >> For me it was two decades later than that. *Not until well after the
> >> turn of the century. *Either on a FoodTV show or here on RFC. *Someone
> >> decided to call red sauce gravy? *Okay. *It's regional? *Okay. *It's
> >> fascinating how regional terms end up spreading? *Definitely.
>
> > *From what I hear, pronouncing pasta e fagioli "pasta fazool" is a
> > regional thing too.
>
> I thought that's how it's supposed to be pronounced.
>
> Janet, who grew up with "The Sopranos"
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south Texas
> Spelling doesn't count. *Cooking does.

Basta Fazool is how it is pronounced by NY area Italians whose
ancestors came here from southern Italy/Sicily. Pasta Fa-jo-la it
probably closer to "classic" Italian. Keeping in mind, there are
almost as many dialects in Italy as there are villages. The only
people using the "classic" Italian pronunciation are non-native
speakers of Italian!

On Sep 9, 12:39*pm, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:17:33 -0700, sf > wrote:
> >On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:47:15 -0700 (PDT), projectile vomit chick
> > wrote:
>
> >> On Sep 6, 2:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
> >> > I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>
> >> > If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
> >> > If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
> >> > served separately then it's sauce.
>
> >> > Thoughts
>
> >> My thoughts are that I'm sick of hearing about greasy dagos and their
> >> disgusting food every minute of the day.
>
> >> Flame on!
>
> >You can always learn how to fine tune your kill file since it bothers
> >you so much. *Oh, that's right. *You'd rather complain obnoxiously
> >instead of actually doing something to remedy your little problem.
>
> What's a greasy dago?
>
> The WOPS in Brooklyn never called it tomato sauce, it was always
> tomato gravy... *and they never said pasta, it was all macaronis
> (always plural).

of course, macaronis. In Italian, the plural ends in -i. In English,
plurals end in -s. So they took an Italian word (macaroni) and
anglicized it, adding an -s to make it plural. Same as "youse guys".

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:00:56 -0700 (PDT), ---- >
wrote:

>On Sep 9, 12:39*pm, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:17:33 -0700, sf > wrote:
>> >On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:47:15 -0700 (PDT), projectile vomit chick
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> On Sep 6, 2:22*pm, "Dimitri" > wrote:
>> >> > I was watching Lidia the other day & I have a tendency to agree with her.
>>
>> >> > If the meat in the sauce is served separately then it's gravy.
>> >> > If the meat is an integral part of the sauce and is not separated out or
>> >> > served separately then it's sauce.
>>
>> >> > Thoughts
>>
>> >> My thoughts are that I'm sick of hearing about greasy dagos and their
>> >> disgusting food every minute of the day.
>>
>> >> Flame on!
>>
>> >You can always learn how to fine tune your kill file since it bothers
>> >you so much. *Oh, that's right. *You'd rather complain obnoxiously
>> >instead of actually doing something to remedy your little problem.
>>
>> What's a greasy dago?
>>
>> The WOPS in Brooklyn never called it tomato sauce, it was always
>> tomato gravy... *and they never said pasta, it was all macaronis
>> (always plural).
>
>of course, macaronis. In Italian, the plural ends in -i. In English,
>plurals end in -s. So they took an Italian word (macaroni) and
>anglicized it, adding an -s to make it plural. Same as "youse guys".

Actually in Italian it's 'maccheroni/e.

Origin of MACARONI
Italian maccheroni, plural of maccherone, from Italian dialect
maccarone dumpling, macaroni
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/macaroni

---- wrote:

>> Then, I know I still haven't perfectly understood what gravy means
>> overseas. Isn't gravy a sauce composed *mainly* of sauces released by
>> the meat while cooking, thickened or not in the way you prefer?

> you have described American gravy. Meat drippings or stock, frequently
> thickened with a slurry of flour or corn starch. If you think of the
> "mother sauces" of classic French cooking, it's sort of a cross
> between the espagnole and the veloute. All gravy (no matter what
> language) is "sauce". Whether a sauce is a "gravy" depends on what is
> in it. "Gravy", whether in English or Italian, involves meat and is
> used as an accompaniment to meat. (Though frequently, it is also used
> to add flavor or moisture to the rice, potatoes or pasta side dish).

Many thanks to you
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking