"Pete C." wrote:
>Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>> Our little car wasn't working right. My wife said she'd take a look.
>> Well, that sounded useless, but OK. What harm could she do?
>>
>> Later she says it doesn't work at all. I asked her what she did.
>> Pulled all the wires out of the distributor. Did she put them back?
>> Yes. In the right order? Didn't know. Did it matter? Yes.
>
>> What to
>> do next? Call the tow truck!
>
>Nope, read the manual, find the correct firing order and put them back
>correctly. No tow truck required, just the intelligence to read and
>learn, something that seems to be sorely lacking in recent generations.

The typical automobile owners manual won't show the proper ignition
wire order... one would need the repair/tune-up manual, but one can
probably find the info on line.

On late model vehicals they're almost always numbered from the
factory... of course if one replaces ignition wires and/or ignition
cap it behooves to number them. Normal brained people would have
marked everything *before* removing the wires (even numbering a piece
of masking tape works for temporary). I color code wire, hydraulic
line connections, etc. with colored zip ties... if you have more
connections than different colors just double them up... available at
many hardware/autoparts/electronics stores (Radio Shack):
http://www.9thtee.com/zipties.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-7-5-Inc...7313041&sr=8-1

In article >,
says...
>
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:18:45 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> >> Unless one is a licensed electrician they will be paying. A new
> >> service requires a fire underwriters approval which requires a
> >> licensed electrician signing off on the work. The utility company
> >> won't reattach the service otherwise. Technically the homeowner is
> >> not supposed to be messing with adding circuits or doing any wiring
> >> without a licensed electrician signing off on the job. People do
> >> their own electrical work all the time but they'd best pray they don't
> >> have an electrical fire or their homeowners insurance after their
> >> inspection finds the fire was started due to code violation they won't
> >> pay.
> >
> >This is true in your unfortunate location, it is not at all true in most
> >states. Where I live there are no requirements at all - no permits, no
> >inspections, no anything.
>
> The NEC

Has no force in law. It is a model code that localities may or may not
adopt at their whim. In many areas they use the straight NEC. In
others they modify it in various ways. In others they have their own
locally developed codes.

> has a clause allowing a homeowner to do their own work unless
> it's been changed in a recent edition. In my area you're supposed to
> pull a permit, do the work to code, and pass an inspection. I've done
> many and most without a permit. I've never been busted and the meter
> reader just put a new lock tag on the meter fitting.
>
> Sheldon is full of shit. As you said a range receptacle can be an
> easy or a difficult job. After re-reding the op I'm not sure anything
> needs to be done.
>
> Lou

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> "Pete C." wrote:
> >Dan Abel wrote:
> >>
> >> Our little car wasn't working right. My wife said she'd take a look.
> >> Well, that sounded useless, but OK. What harm could she do?
> >>
> >> Later she says it doesn't work at all. I asked her what she did.
> >> Pulled all the wires out of the distributor. Did she put them back?
> >> Yes. In the right order? Didn't know. Did it matter? Yes.
> >
> >> What to
> >> do next? Call the tow truck!
> >
> >Nope, read the manual, find the correct firing order and put them back
> >correctly. No tow truck required, just the intelligence to read and
> >learn, something that seems to be sorely lacking in recent generations.
>
> The typical automobile owners manual won't show the proper ignition
> wire order... one would need the repair/tune-up manual, but one can
> probably find the info on line.
>
> On late model vehicals they're almost always numbered from the
> factory... of course if one replaces ignition wires and/or ignition
> cap it behooves to number them. Normal brained people would have
> marked everything *before* removing the wires (even numbering a piece
> of masking tape works for temporary). I color code wire, hydraulic
> line connections, etc. with colored zip ties... if you have more
> connections than different colors just double them up... available at
> many hardware/autoparts/electronics stores (Radio Shack):
> http://www.9thtee.com/zipties.htm
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-7-5-Inc...7313041&sr=8-1

I always buy the factory service manuals for my vehicles and anything
else that has them. It amazes me that some folks will spend tens of
thousands of dollars on a vehicle but have a fit spending $150 for the
manuals.

Colored electrical tape works well also and is cheaper than colored
cable ties since I always have black, red, blue, green and white 3M 35
tape on hand in my electrical kit.

On the hydraulic line and zip tie front, zip tying a cheap sandwich
baggie over the end of disconnected hydraulic lines and fittings keeps
out dirt and also helps to limit the mess from dripping fluid.

With everyone having digital cameras these days, taking pictures for
reference before taking things apart is also a very good idea.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:32:43 -0400, Nancy Young <email@replyto> wrote:

>On 9/29/2011 7:11 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>>
>>> On 9/29/2011 4:07 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of the things I like about my Sonata is the XM radio. Never thought
>>>> I'd pay to listen, but commercial free, it is very nice.
>>>
>>> People mocked, that's okay. I got to like having XM radio in
>>> about a day. It's very convenient and there are stations for
>>> every mood or taste. And you don't drive in and out of range,
>>> that was a hassle when I commuted.
>
>> I still mock. My truck came with sat radio, I fiddled with it for one
>> day and only because I was doing a 1,700 mile drive. I find it to be
>> utterly worthless and from what I heard it isn't even "commercial free"
>> as they claim since it seems to be riddled with their own commercials. I
>> listen to either NPR or to music from a 16GB USB drive of MP3s.
>
>Oh, I'm not under any illusion people won't still mock. I don't
>hear all these commercials you mention but I suppose we listen to
>different stations. I like to hear music when I'm driving around
>that is something I wouldn't have thought to record or buy on a CD.
>
>nancy

On long cross country drives I like to listen to local
AM stations, the ones that announced the local weather, local gossip,
and I didn't mind the local farm prices. I never liked canned music,
still don't buy music... I own maybe three Roy Orbison CDs, and
couldn't guess how many years it's been since I played them. I have a
CD player in both my car and tractor, never used either, don't even
know if they work. I only like live music (concerts), and only now
and again... most of what's called music nowadays I call noise
pollution.

"Pete C." > wrote
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> On 9/29/2011 4:07 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> > One of the things I like about my Sonata is the XM radio. Never thought
>> > I'd pay to listen, but commercial free, it is very nice.
>>
>> People mocked, that's okay. I got to like having XM radio in
>> about a day. It's very convenient and there are stations for
>> every mood or taste. And you don't drive in and out of range,
>> that was a hassle when I commuted.
>>
>> nancy
>
> I still mock. My truck came with sat radio, I fiddled with it for one
> day and only because I was doing a 1,700 mile drive. I find it to be
> utterly worthless and from what I heard it isn't even "commercial free"
> as they claim since it seems to be riddled with their own commercials. I
> listen to either NPR or to music from a 16GB USB drive of MP3s.

Some of the 150+ stations do have commercials, but the ones I like do not. I
have 18 pre-sets and move around according to my move. The classical
station plays entire pieces, not three minute bursts. Bill Wax does a thing
on Blues every Tuesday at 4PM where he picks a song and plays every
available recorded version.. It may be five or ten, or it may be 27
version. Interesting to hear the different variations and arrangements.

I like it and it makes my 33 minute commute a little better.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:08:47 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>> In article >,
>> dsi1 > wrote:
>>
>> > On 9/28/2011 1:00 PM, Dan Abel wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Our little car wasn't working right. My wife said she'd take a look.
>> > > Well, that sounded useless, but OK. What harm could she do?
>> > >
>> > > Later she says it doesn't work at all. I asked her what she did.
>> > > Pulled all the wires out of the distributor. Did she put them back?
>> > > Yes. In the right order? Didn't know. Did it matter? Yes. What to
>> > > do next? Call the tow truck!
>> > >
>> >
>> > You could try guessing the wiring. The shortest wire would probably be
>> > for the spark plug closest to the distributor. The longest would
>> > probably go to the plug the furthest away. You can figure out the rest.
>>
>> She didn't pull the wires off of the spark plugs. They were still
>> connected, and all of them were the correct length to fit any connection
>> on the distributor.
>>
>> > OTOH, all you have to do is Google "cylinder firing order" and then the
>> > make and model of your car.
>>
>> I don't think that Al Gore had invented the internet yet.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> I'm sure I read the user manual, and it said nothing of use. I bought a
>> really nice Hyundai Sonata about a year ago. The first thing I do when
>> I buy a car is read the user manual, cover to cover. But half of the
>> darned thing (and it was really thick) was about how to use the radio!
>> I don't even listen to the radio!
>
>When I buy a new vehicle, I order the factory service manual at the same
>time.

That's a waste of money. There is very little on today's new vehicles
that DIYers can do, and other than simple routine maintenence (lube
and tire inflation) most DIY futzing will negate the warranty. Even
dealerships can't diagnose other brands, they haven't the computerized
diagnostics. My new Toyota has a big warning light in the dashboard
that blinks very annoyingly when it's past time to go in for service,
and I can't turn it off, only the dealer can by plugging it into their
computerized diagnostics while performing the services, and knowing
the code for each service... they contact me to make an appointment
well before that light grows to an annoying intensity... once I
couldn't make it on time and that idiot light made it near impossible
to drive at night without taping over it, was very annoying. I can
bring my 20 year old Toyota into my local grease monkey garage for
tuneups and such but they can't do much of anything with my new
Toyota.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:10:03 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Cheryl" > wrote
>> Why would it be a dealbreaker? Because I just want to replace the
>> stove/range/whatever with whatever will work with the power already
>> available.
>
>I sort of understand, but I'd not let $75 for an electrician stop me from
>having the stove I really want and will have to live with for many more
>years. If you require major work, that may be a different story. Chances
>are, changing the plug is the most you will need.

Nowadays electric stoves are delivered with no power cord attached,
the consumer needs to purchase that separately. If the new stove
requires a higher amperage circuit attaching the incorrect line cord
(the one from the old stove) it's a disaster waiting to happen. I
think in most cases it would be near impossible to attach the
incorrect line cord to the new stove anyway because the configuration
has changed a few years ago.... I had to buy a different cord for a
new electric stove for a tenant recently, had nothing to do with
different amperage. I got lucky as the Lowes delivery driver had a
brand new cord on the truck and he gave it to me gratis. The $40 tip
I gave the two guys more than covered it anyway, maybe that's why they
miraculously found the cord because at first they said I'd have to buy
one at the store. They also took the old nasty stove that originally
they weren't going to do. Lowe's is a good place to buy appliances, I
bought it from their web site with a five minute phone call,
everything went smoothly and it was delivered in less than 48 hours.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:10:03 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Cheryl" > wrote
> >> Why would it be a dealbreaker? Because I just want to replace the
> >> stove/range/whatever with whatever will work with the power already
> >> available.
> >
> >I sort of understand, but I'd not let $75 for an electrician stop me from
> >having the stove I really want and will have to live with for many more
> >years. If you require major work, that may be a different story. Chances
> >are, changing the plug is the most you will need.
>
> Nowadays electric stoves are delivered with no power cord attached,
> the consumer needs to purchase that separately. If the new stove
> requires a higher amperage circuit attaching the incorrect line cord
> (the one from the old stove) it's a disaster waiting to happen.

No disaster waiting to happen, just annoyance. The overcurrent
protection (circuit breaker) will trip before the wiring can overheat,
but since a range is rarely run at full power wit h oven and burners all
in use, it will work just fine until you're cooking thanksgiving dinner
and then it will trip.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:08:47 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Dan Abel wrote:
> >>
> >> In article >,
> >> dsi1 > wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 9/28/2011 1:00 PM, Dan Abel wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Our little car wasn't working right. My wife said she'd take a look.
> >> > > Well, that sounded useless, but OK. What harm could she do?
> >> > >
> >> > > Later she says it doesn't work at all. I asked her what she did.
> >> > > Pulled all the wires out of the distributor. Did she put them back?
> >> > > Yes. In the right order? Didn't know. Did it matter? Yes. What to
> >> > > do next? Call the tow truck!
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > You could try guessing the wiring. The shortest wire would probably be
> >> > for the spark plug closest to the distributor. The longest would
> >> > probably go to the plug the furthest away. You can figure out the rest.
> >>
> >> She didn't pull the wires off of the spark plugs. They were still
> >> connected, and all of them were the correct length to fit any connection
> >> on the distributor.
> >>
> >> > OTOH, all you have to do is Google "cylinder firing order" and then the
> >> > make and model of your car.
> >>
> >> I don't think that Al Gore had invented the internet yet.
> >>
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> I'm sure I read the user manual, and it said nothing of use. I bought a
> >> really nice Hyundai Sonata about a year ago. The first thing I do when
> >> I buy a car is read the user manual, cover to cover. But half of the
> >> darned thing (and it was really thick) was about how to use the radio!
> >> I don't even listen to the radio!
> >
> >When I buy a new vehicle, I order the factory service manual at the same
> >time.
>
> That's a waste of money. There is very little on today's new vehicles
> that DIYers can do, and other than simple routine maintenence (lube
> and tire inflation)

Oil and oil filter change, fuel filter change, coolant checks and
changes, transmission checks and changes, brakes, shocks, etc. There is
very little on a new vehicle that a competent DIYer *can't* do really,
and proper scan tools which used to be quite expensive are pretty
affordable these days.

> most DIY futzing will negate the warranty.

Nope, that would be illegal per the Magnusun Moss Warranty Act (sp?).

> Even
> dealerships can't diagnose other brands, they haven't the computerized
> diagnostics.

Yes and no, much of the diags are standard federally mandated OBDII so
any scanner can read that data for all brands. There is manufacturer
specific extended data and with most scanners it is just a matter of
purchasing that extra option if desired.

> My new Toyota has a big warning light in the dashboard
> that blinks very annoyingly when it's past time to go in for service,
> and I can't turn it off, only the dealer can by plugging it into their
> computerized diagnostics while performing the services, and knowing
> the code for each service... they contact me to make an appointment
> well before that light grows to an annoying intensity... once I
> couldn't make it on time and that idiot light made it near impossible
> to drive at night without taping over it, was very annoying. I can
> bring my 20 year old Toyota into my local grease monkey garage for
> tuneups and such but they can't do much of anything with my new
> Toyota.

Again, you can DIY this stuff quite easily. Autoenginuity is one PC
based scan tool that is quite decent and has manufacturer specific
support at reasonable prices.

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote
> My new Toyota has a big warning light in the dashboard
> that blinks very annoyingly when it's past time to go in for service,
> and I can't turn it off, only the dealer can by plugging it into their
> computerized diagnostics while performing the services, and knowing
> the code for each service... they contact me to make an appointment
> well before that light grows to an annoying intensity... once I
> couldn't make it on time and that idiot light made it near impossible
> to drive at night without taping over it, was very annoying.

Wow, a good reason not to buy that model. I dislike dealer service unless it
is warranty or something too obscure for my regular guy.