Yesterday I tried making bagels again, which I haven't tried in some
years. Previous batches have used water baths with baking soda, malt
extract, and something else that escapes me at the moment. They never
turned out right. This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
(sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
Boiled 'em for 30 seconds on each side before baking.

Qualified success.... I need to be more careful at getting the big
bubbles out of the dough when punching down. Those bubbles absorbed
more than their share of the solution, and they ended up gummy in
spots. I also need to use more gluten or more flour or both. Added 1
teaspoon gluten per cup of bread flour, but I think the dough needs to
be even stiffer.

To shape: do not roll out into a long strip and join the ends. They
don't join very well. Instead, poke a hole through the center, then
swing the dough round and round your finger as though it was a hula
hoop. The hole will get larger very quickly.

The wife and I split the dough between us. She broiled her share for
a minute or so before baking. She was supposed to broil them on both
sides but couldn't get the dough off the baking sheet so they only
broiled on one side. The broiling kept the bagels from falling quite
as much and gave a better texture, so we'll do that next time too.

And the flavor!! It's been so long since I had a real bagel, I'd
forgotten what they taste like! Excellent!!!
--
Best -- Terry

In article >,
Terry > wrote:

> Yesterday I tried making bagels again, which I haven't tried in some
> years. Previous batches have used water baths with baking soda, malt
> extract, and something else that escapes me at the moment. They never
> turned out right. This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
> (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
> Boiled 'em for 30 seconds on each side before baking.
>
> Qualified success.... I need to be more careful at getting the big
> bubbles out of the dough when punching down. Those bubbles absorbed
> more than their share of the solution, and they ended up gummy in
> spots. I also need to use more gluten or more flour or both. Added 1
> teaspoon gluten per cup of bread flour, but I think the dough needs to
> be even stiffer.
>
> To shape: do not roll out into a long strip and join the ends. They
> don't join very well. Instead, poke a hole through the center, then
> swing the dough round and round your finger as though it was a hula
> hoop. The hole will get larger very quickly.
>
> The wife and I split the dough between us. She broiled her share for
> a minute or so before baking. She was supposed to broil them on both
> sides but couldn't get the dough off the baking sheet so they only
> broiled on one side. The broiling kept the bagels from falling quite
> as much and gave a better texture, so we'll do that next time too.
>
> And the flavor!! It's been so long since I had a real bagel, I'd
> forgotten what they taste like! Excellent!!!

I've not made bagels with lye water, but I have tried pretzels. Works
fine, but I can't figure out what to put the dough on after it's been
"lyed", for baking. Parchment paper becomes bonded for life, and my
"non-stick" cookie sheet now has permanent pretzel-shaped stains on it.
What did you use?

Isaac

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:25:07 -0500, Terry >
wrote:

> This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
> (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.

Were you able to find food grade lye without resorting to the
internet?

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:25:07 -0500, Terry >
> wrote:
>
> > This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
> > (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
>
> Were you able to find food grade lye without resorting to the
> internet?

It was some years ago, before the internet was even an option as a
source. I just bought a can of lye (NOT Drano, which has aluminum) at
the drugstore. The label indicated that there wasn't much in there
besides sodium hydroxide, and I figured that whatever else was in there,
there just couldn't be enough on a pretzel to worry about.

I still have part of that can, and if I decide to try pretzels again,
I'll use another tablespoon of it.

Isaac

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:41:12 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:25:07 -0500, Terry >
>wrote:
>
>> This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
>> (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
>
>Were you able to find food grade lye without resorting to the
>internet?
>

What have you got against the internet? <g> I found this link
last time I was thinking about making pretzels-

http://www.aaa-chemicals.com/sodium-hydroxide.html

Never got around to it so I can't say if $4.49 for 2 lbs is as good a
deal as it appears.

Jim

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 00:38:01 -0700, isw > wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:25:07 -0500, Terry >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
> > > (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
> >
> > Were you able to find food grade lye without resorting to the
> > internet?
>
> It was some years ago, before the internet was even an option as a
> source. I just bought a can of lye (NOT Drano, which has aluminum) at
> the drugstore. The label indicated that there wasn't much in there
> besides sodium hydroxide, and I figured that whatever else was in there,
> there just couldn't be enough on a pretzel to worry about.
>
> I still have part of that can, and if I decide to try pretzels again,
> I'll use another tablespoon of it.
>
Thanks!


--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 00:38:01 -0700, isw > wrote:

> I just bought a can of lye (NOT Drano, which has aluminum) at
> the drugstore.

I forgot to ask if you're American or not. I've found there's a huge
difference in what you can and can not find between American
drugstores and those of other countries.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Sep 28, 5:15*am, sf > wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 00:38:01 -0700, isw > wrote:
> > I just bought a can of lye (NOT Drano, which has aluminum) at
> > the drugstore.
>
> I forgot to ask if you're American or not. *I've found there's a huge
> difference in what you can and can not find between American
> drugstores and those of other countries.
>

German drugstores don't sell coffeemakers or lawn furniture. If it's
not drugs they don't stock it. OTOH, they're the only stores
authorized to sell aspirin.

spamtrap1888 > wrote:

> German drugstores don't sell coffeemakers or lawn furniture. If it's
> not drugs they don't stock it.

German drugstores, Drogerien, do sell all those things. They are rather
similar to American drugstores in most respects, except they never sell
drugs. Here is an example of a Drogerie chain, one of the largest in
Germany: <http://www.schlecker.de>

> OTOH, they're the only stores
> authorized to sell aspirin.

No, they are not authorized to sell drugs of any kind.

In Germany, drugs are dispensed by Apotheken (chemists/ pharmacies).
Most Apotheken also sell some other products vaguely related to health,
such as food supplements and cosmetics.

Victor

On Sep 28, 1:47*pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> > German drugstores don't sell coffeemakers or lawn furniture. If it's
> > not drugs they don't stock it.
>
> German drugstores, Drogerien, do sell all those things. *They are rather
> similar to American drugstores in most respects, except they never sell
> drugs. *Here is an example of a Drogerie chain, one of the largest in
> Germany: <http://www.schlecker.de>
>
> > OTOH, they're the only stores
> > authorized to sell aspirin.
>
> No, they are not authorized to sell drugs of any kind.
>
> In Germany, drugs are dispensed by Apotheken (chemists/ pharmacies).
> Most Apotheken also sell some other products vaguely related to health,
> such as food supplements and cosmetics.
>

Dude, if they don't sell drugs then they're not a drugstore. We call
"Drogerie" un faux ami. Apotheke is what I clearly meant by German
drugstore -- a German store that sells drugs.

spamtrap1888 > wrote:

> On Sep 28, 1:47*pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> > spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> > > German drugstores don't sell coffeemakers or lawn furniture. If it's
> > > not drugs they don't stock it.
> >
> > German drugstores, Drogerien, do sell all those things. *They are rather
> > similar to American drugstores in most respects, except they never sell
> > drugs. *Here is an example of a Drogerie chain, one of the largest in
> > Germany: <http://www.schlecker.de>
> >
> > > OTOH, they're the only stores
> > > authorized to sell aspirin.
> >
> > No, they are not authorized to sell drugs of any kind.
> >
> > In Germany, drugs are dispensed by Apotheken (chemists/ pharmacies).
> > Most Apotheken also sell some other products vaguely related to health,
> > such as food supplements and cosmetics.
>
> Dude, if they don't sell drugs then they're not a drugstore. We call
> "Drogerie" un faux ami. Apotheke is what I clearly meant by German
> drugstore -- a German store that sells drugs.

Well, "dude", it is just too bad - "Drogerie" may be a faux ami to some,
but it does literally mean "drugstore"; "Drogen" means "drugs".
Drogerien are referred to as "drugstores" in English: see
<http://www.schlecker.com/htdocs/cms/index_uk.htm>.

Some Drogerien sell wine; some consider wine a drug...

Victor

On Sep 29, 12:52*pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> > On Sep 28, 1:47 pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> > > spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> > > > German drugstores don't sell coffeemakers or lawn furniture. If it's
> > > > not drugs they don't stock it.
>
> > > German drugstores, Drogerien, do sell all those things. They are rather
> > > similar to American drugstores in most respects, except they never sell
> > > drugs. Here is an example of a Drogerie chain, one of the largest in
> > > Germany: <http://www.schlecker.de>
>
> > > > OTOH, they're the only stores
> > > > authorized to sell aspirin.
>
> > > No, they are not authorized to sell drugs of any kind.
>
> > > In Germany, drugs are dispensed by Apotheken (chemists/ pharmacies).
> > > Most Apotheken also sell some other products vaguely related to health,
> > > such as food supplements and cosmetics.
>
> > Dude, if they don't sell drugs then they're not a drugstore. We call
> > "Drogerie" un faux ami. Apotheke is what I clearly meant by German
> > drugstore -- a German store that sells drugs.
>
> Well, "dude", it is just too bad - "Drogerie" may be a faux ami to some,
> but it does literally mean "drugstore"; "Drogen" means "drugs".
> Drogerien are referred to as "drugstores" in English: see
> <http://www.schlecker.com/htdocs/cms/index_uk.htm>.
>
> Some Drogerien sell wine; some consider wine a drug...
>

American drugstores sell drugs; German Drogerien do not. Not even in
German does Drogen mean only "herbal remedies," but those are the only
kind you can get in a Drogerie.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:40:45 -0700 in rec.food.cooking, isw
> wrote,
>I've not made bagels with lye water, but I have tried pretzels. Works
>fine, but I can't figure out what to put the dough on after it's been
>"lyed", for baking. Parchment paper becomes bonded for life, and my
>"non-stick" cookie sheet now has permanent pretzel-shaped stains on it.

Sounds like a job for a silicone baking mat, but that's just a
guess.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:40:45 -0700, isw > wrote:

>I've not made bagels with lye water, but I have tried pretzels. Works
>fine, but I can't figure out what to put the dough on after it's been
>"lyed", for baking. Parchment paper becomes bonded for life, and my
>"non-stick" cookie sheet now has permanent pretzel-shaped stains on it.
>What did you use?
>
>Isaac

Isaac, I used parchment paper. Yes, it stuck badly, so I didn't try
removing the bagels til after they were baked.
--
Best -- Terry

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 17:11:45 -0700, David Harmon >
wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:40:45 -0700 in rec.food.cooking, isw
> wrote,
>>I've not made bagels with lye water, but I have tried pretzels. Works
>>fine, but I can't figure out what to put the dough on after it's been
>>"lyed", for baking. Parchment paper becomes bonded for life, and my
>>"non-stick" cookie sheet now has permanent pretzel-shaped stains on it.
>
>Sounds like a job for a silicone baking mat, but that's just a
>guess.

Great minds, same track, etc. :-) I'll use the Silpat next time.
--
Best -- Terry

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:41:12 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:25:07 -0500, Terry >
>wrote:
>
>> This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
>> (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
>
>Were you able to find food grade lye without resorting to the
>internet?

Afraid not. The internet price is low, it's the shipping hazmat that
kills ya. But two pounds, even though it ended up costing about $35,
is going to be a lifetime supply for me.
--
Best -- Terry

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 00:38:01 -0700, isw > wrote:

>In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:25:07 -0500, Terry >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
>> > (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
>>
>> Were you able to find food grade lye without resorting to the
>> internet?
>
>It was some years ago, before the internet was even an option as a
>source. I just bought a can of lye (NOT Drano, which has aluminum) at
>the drugstore. The label indicated that there wasn't much in there
>besides sodium hydroxide, and I figured that whatever else was in there,
>there just couldn't be enough on a pretzel to worry about.
>
>I still have part of that can, and if I decide to try pretzels again,
>I'll use another tablespoon of it.
>
>Isaac

The reason I paid the outrageous shipping for food-grade (USP) lye is
that chemicals labeled USP do not contain significant amounts of other
nastystuff to be harmful. Lye in particular may have a
higher-than-desirable level of arsenic present---unless it's USP lye.

That being said, if it was something I'd need to buy over and over,
I'd probably do what you did. Though lye is getting pretty difficult
to find on the shelf.

Worth mention: there was a black stain on the bottom of the pot from
years ago, when I burned a batch of pudding in that pan. The lye took
out that stain, neat as you please.
--
Best -- Terry

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 07:21:34 -0400, Jim Elbrecht >
wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:41:12 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:25:07 -0500, Terry >
>>wrote:
>>
>>> This time the bath was 1 teaspoon of food-grade lye
>>> (sodium hydroxide) per quart of water, in a stainless steel pot.
>>
>>Were you able to find food grade lye without resorting to the
>>internet?
>>
>
>What have you got against the internet? <g> I found this link
>last time I was thinking about making pretzels-
>
>http://www.aaa-chemicals.com/sodium-hydroxide.html
>
>Never got around to it so I can't say if $4.49 for 2 lbs is as good a
>deal as it appears.
>
>Jim

Jim, go partway through the checkout to determine what shipping will
run. :-(

However, 2 lbs should be good for at least 200 batches, probably more.
For most people it will be a one-time expense.
--
Best -- Terry

Terry > wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 07:21:34 -0400, Jim Elbrecht >
>wrote:
-snip-
>>What have you got against the internet? <g> I found this link
>>last time I was thinking about making pretzels-
>>
>>http://www.aaa-chemicals.com/sodium-hydroxide.html
>>
>>Never got around to it so I can't say if $4.49 for 2 lbs is as good a
>>deal as it appears.
>
>Jim, go partway through the checkout to determine what shipping will
>run. :-(
>
>However, 2 lbs should be good for at least 200 batches, probably more.r
>For most people it will be a one-time expense.

$10.50 to NY, including tax. I can't do a whole lot of driving
around for $10.

Jim