"Dave Smith" > wrote
> Yes. It was a ripoff. I guess we were paying for the location, since it
> was at a place on the Grand Canal, right around the corner from St. Marks
> square. The dinner was not great. My wife and I had seafood platters,
> skimpy portions of mediocre fish, and my son had veal Parmesan. He said it
> was good but still.... veal Parmesan. There was one piece of cake ordered
> for desert, a bottle of water, a bottle of wine and two coffees. That
> would be a lot to pay now for that meal, and an absolute rip off at the
> time. It was part of the reason that of all the European countries I have
> visited, I have no interest in returning to Italy.

I've heard horror stories from both Venice and Rome. I expected Venice to
be expensive, just for the handling and transport and was not disappointed.
Other places may be doing a better job of policing that sort of thing or
they just do less of it. A couple of years ago, a Japanese tourist in Rome
had a $3000 bar bill on his credit card. Forget the details, but someone
was arrested.

We had lunch in Florence today, with wine, for E34 or about $46 US. I'd
expect to pay that price in any big city under similar circumstances. It
was in a very touristy area, nice sidewalk restaurant in the shade.


I've been to Venice twice, now that I've experienced it, I can do 4 days
elsewhere instead of 2 in Venice.

On Sep 26, 10:13*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:21:26 -0700 (PDT), merryb wrote:
>
> >> We were recently in Florence- go have a steak! We went to an
> >> incredible place called Toto..
>
> > From a previous thread, I though Totos were toilets?
>
> They are. *With special porcelain. *Perhaps they used the Toto after they
> ate the steak?

I believe that was a Japanese brand- get with the program people!

"Dave Smith" > wrote
>
> I have been known to step into MacDonalds in European cities just to
> listen to the language. I am few up with people whining about the
> American influence, so I wanted to see if it was full of American
> tourists or the locals...... I always heard the local language, so it
> was the locals eating there.
>
> I did once go into a MacDonalds in Baden Baden Germany. It was the only
> place open on a Sunday morning and it sold soft drinks at reasonable
> prices in a land where they charge a lot for pop.

I was able to park and the restrooms were clean and free.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:21:25 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 27/09/2011 6:10 AM, ViLco wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I had sticker shock on several occasions when I was in Italy in 1993.
>>> I still have the bill for our dinner in Venice..... 315,000 Lira,
>>> about $315 at the time, a hell of a lot for a mediocre dinner for
>>> three.
>>
>> That's a totap rip-off: 315.000 lire in 1993 were worth more than 315 euros
>> nowadays. In 1993 medium restaurants would ask you 25k to 35k lire, now they
>> ask for 35 to 50 euros...

He spent all those lira and he didn't get laid... for that much you
coulda had three of the prettiest young girls in Rome for an all
nighter, and still had dinner. I don't believe he was in Italy, it
was a fantasy dream.

>I have no interest in returning to Italy.

Venice is a giant rip off, a tourist trap. Italy does have good food
at very reasonable prices but you need to avoid the big cities, the
best eateries are in the small towns, especially in Italy's rural
interior there are wonderful inns and taverns one just comes upon,
they are not advertised. The typical tourist never experiences Italy,
they'd be better off staying home with a subscription to Nat Geo. I've
traipsed throughout Italy on several occasions and found much that was
very enjoyable but I experienced more of Italy up close and personal
growing up in Brooklyn. Italy is about its people, not its slick
travel brochure hype and tourist traps. I traveled a lot when
younger, it took me half a lifetime to realize that travel is highly
over rated... one can learn more about Italy by living on the cheap in
Boston's east end for a month than from a lifetime of expensive
commercial tours. It's like people who make a hundred trips to
midtown Manhattan, they know absolutely nothing of NYC... every time I
read about their trip to Carnegie Deli I LMAO... theyd do better
dining at a Sabrett's pushcart and other street venders. If you want
good ethnic food you won't find it in Midtown Manhattan, you need to
go to Brooklyn and Queens... the tourist traps know the tourists are
on limited time so they pick their pockets... there are more and more
sophisticated pick pockets in Midtown than in all of Italy.

On Sep 27, 9:02*am, a wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:21:25 -0400, Dave Smith
>
> > wrote:
> >On 27/09/2011 6:10 AM, ViLco wrote:
> >> Dave Smith wrote:
>
> >>> I had sticker shock on several occasions when I was in Italy in 1993.
> >>> I still have the bill for our dinner in Venice..... 315,000 Lira,
> >>> about $315 at the time, a hell of a lot for a mediocre dinner for
> >>> three.
>
> >> That's a totap rip-off: 315.000 lire in 1993 were worth more than 315 euros
> >> nowadays. In 1993 medium restaurants would ask you 25k to 35k lire, now they
> >> ask for 35 to 50 euros...
>
> He spent all those lira and he didn't get laid... for that much you
> coulda had three of the prettiest young girls in Rome for an all
> nighter, and still had dinner. *I don't believe he was in Italy, it
> was a fantasy dream.
>
> >I have no interest in returning to Italy.
>
> Venice is a giant rip off, a tourist trap. *Italy does have good food
> at very reasonable prices but you need to avoid the big cities, the
> best eateries are in the small towns, especially in Italy's rural
> interior there are wonderful inns and taverns one just comes upon,
> they are not advertised. *The typical tourist never experiences Italy,
> they'd be better off staying home with a subscription to Nat Geo. I've
> traipsed throughout Italy on several occasions and found much that was
> very enjoyable but I experienced more of Italy up close and personal
> growing up in Brooklyn. *Italy is about its people, not its slick
> travel brochure hype and tourist traps. *I traveled a lot when
> younger, it took me half a lifetime to realize that travel is highly
> over rated... one can learn more about Italy by living on the cheap in
> Boston's east end for a month than from a lifetime of expensive
> commercial tours. *It's like people who make a hundred trips to
> midtown Manhattan, they know absolutely nothing of NYC... every time I
> read about their trip to Carnegie Deli I LMAO... theyd do better
> dining at a Sabrett's pushcart and other street venders. *If you want
> good ethnic food you won't find it in Midtown Manhattan, you need to
> go to Brooklyn and Queens... the tourist traps know the tourists are
> on limited time so they pick their pockets... there are more and more
> sophisticated pick pockets in Midtown than in all of Italy.

Again, I will have to agree. My family just returned from there as we
were attending a cousin's wedding in Northern Italy. They live in the
town of Trento, but the rest of the family lives in a little village
of 298 people a bit west of Trento. We stayed in an apartment that
they own in that village for 5 days before the wedding, and just
enjoyed life there in a typical small place- cooking, walking around,
etc. Ate some great local food, which is rather peasant style, but
it's the real thing! After that, we went to Venice, Florence, and
Rome, and the best times were up north. Trento is a good sized city
without all the tourists, and it is every bit as beautiful as the big
cities. There were so many rude people in the big cities, and altho we
wanted the kids to see all that we could in 12 days, we'd rather be up
north.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:53:16 -0400, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 00:21:04 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
om...
>>>>>
>>>>>We stopped at a McDonalds for the restrooms and grabbed a couple of Cokes
>>>>>for $2.83 each. They are $1 in the US, at least in our area.
>>>>>They did have a 1 Euro menu, and they charge .25 for a packet of ketchup
>>>>>or
>>>>>mayo.
>>>>
>>>> Hope you're having fun ED. Keep up the reports please! And also
>>>> pictures if you don't mind. But what did you order you needed ketchup
>>>> for?
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>> We just got the Cokes, but the lady ahead of me a ordered a meal and
>>> ketchup. It was a little tub packet. I added a couple of pic last
>>> night, but more later today.
>>
>>I wish we could get tubs here. I hate those squeeze out ones. Unless of
>>course there is a little tub to squeeze it into. Which invariably there is
>>not.
>
> I don't get it... why would anyone travel half way around the planet
> to eat dreck at the Golden Arches... just the stench alone would ruin
> my experience... to me that stink is a dire warning not to eat there,
> like how wildlife knows not to eat certain plants. I used to know I
> was approaching Italy from 20 miles off shore... anyone ever cruised
> to Naples knows I ain't lying.

he said he got a couple of cokes. your reading comprehension is
nonexistent.

blake

"Storrmmee" > wrote in message
...
> the mcd dollar menu gives you a 24 oz cup but stuffs it with ice before
> fill, a twenty oz bottle is closing in quickly onto two dollars, and i can
> assure those of you who drink soda, tis going up again very soon, Lee

In the CT / MA area, any fountain drink is $1. Soda, coffee, iced tea.

it varies but is often under a buck at gas stations, but all soda prices are
going up, hopefully for those of you who drink fountain drinks the increase
will be small enough for the sellers to absorb, cans/bottles are expected to
have a serious hike, Lee
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Storrmmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> the mcd dollar menu gives you a 24 oz cup but stuffs it with ice before
>> fill, a twenty oz bottle is closing in quickly onto two dollars, and i
>> can assure those of you who drink soda, tis going up again very soon, Lee
>
> In the CT / MA area, any fountain drink is $1. Soda, coffee, iced tea.

On 27/09/2011 11:50 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> I've heard horror stories from both Venice and Rome. I expected Venice
> to be expensive, just for the handling and transport and was not
> disappointed. Other places may be doing a better job of policing that
> sort of thing or they just do less of it. A couple of years ago, a
> Japanese tourist in Rome had a $3000 bar bill on his credit card. Forget
> the details, but someone was arrested.
>
> We had lunch in Florence today, with wine, for E34 or about $46 US. I'd
> expect to pay that price in any big city under similar circumstances. It
> was in a very touristy area, nice sidewalk restaurant in the shade.
>

I spent close to that the other day for lunch at a local restaurant,. I
had a hamburger and two beers. My wife had a wrap, a glass of wine nad a
coffee.

One thing I learned about travelling over the years is that proximity to
major tourist attractions inflates prices dramatically. When I was in
Paris with my brothers and their wives about 12 years ago, they were
unwilling to wander away from major sites and I paid outrageous prices
for small servings of mediocre food. I have had much better food for
about half the price just a few blocks further away from those sites.


> I've been to Venice twice, now that I've experienced it, I can do 4 days
> elsewhere instead of 2 in Venice.


I made two trips there at the same time... my first and last.

"Dave Smith" > wrote

>
> One thing I learned about travelling over the years is that proximity to
> major tourist attractions inflates prices dramatically. When I was in
> Paris with my brothers and their wives about 12 years ago, they were
> unwilling to wander away from major sites and I paid outrageous prices for
> small servings of mediocre food. I have had much better food for about
> half the price just a few blocks further away from those sites.
>

Travelling with others can be a PITA. There is one couple though, that
we've gone places with. They are up to try most anything once and expenses
are always shared with no complaints.

Best deals to be had are off the beaten path or a recommendation.

Talk about tourist markups. . . . . . . bought some leather goods today.
Leather can be found easily, some good, some less so, but acceptable at good
prices. We found a high quality shop five years ago and the owner is from
Texas. After some conversation, she offered a discount for cash. We went
back again and were treated well. Went back today and she is gone for
extended vacation. I mentioned to the shopkeeper that she always gave us a
discount for cash. My wife's handbag went from 165 to 100 and my wallet
went from 52 to 20 and he did not even blink.

On 27/09/2011 5:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>

>
> Best deals to be had are off the beaten path or a recommendation.
>
> Talk about tourist markups. . . . . . . bought some leather goods today.
> Leather can be found easily, some good, some less so, but acceptable at
> good prices. We found a high quality shop five years ago and the owner
> is from Texas. After some conversation, she offered a discount for cash.
> We went back again and were treated well. Went back today and she is
> gone for extended vacation. I mentioned to the shopkeeper that she
> always gave us a discount for cash. My wife's handbag went from 165 to
> 100 and my wallet went from 52 to 20 and he did not even blink.
>
>

Then there was the Italian in Paris who loved Americans, and when I
corrected him and told him I was Canadian he loved Canadians even more.
He was on his way back to Milano and wanted to give me a present. All
he wanted was money for gas to Milano, for a really ugly green fake
suede jacket. When I said "Nice try" all of a sudden I was a son of a
bitch ;-)

I had some friends who went to Spain for a convention and hopped the
ferry to Morocco where they bought a pair of brass plates with enamel.
When thy showed them to me I felt badly pointing out that the enamel was
magic marker.

On 27/09/2011 1:10 PM, blake murphy wrote:

>> I don't get it... why would anyone travel half way around the planet
>> to eat dreck at the Golden Arches... just the stench alone would ruin
>> my experience... to me that stink is a dire warning not to eat there,
>> like how wildlife knows not to eat certain plants. I used to know I
>> was approaching Italy from 20 miles off shore... anyone ever cruised
>> to Naples knows I ain't lying.
>
> he said he got a couple of cokes. your reading comprehension is
> nonexistent.

And if his experience was anything like mine in Baden Baden, MacDonalds
was the only place open on a Sunday where you could get a soft drink,
and at a reasonable price. Yes.... I went to a MacDonalds in Germany,
and I was never in the habit of eating at the golden arches here. I have
not even been in one for at least 10 years.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:15:40 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 27/09/2011 7:53 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>>> I wish we could get tubs here. I hate those squeeze out ones. Unless of
>>> course there is a little tub to squeeze it into. Which invariably there is
>>> not.
>>
>> I don't get it... why would anyone travel half way around the planet
>> to eat dreck at the Golden Arches... just the stench alone would ruin
>> my experience... to me that stink is a dire warning not to eat there,
>> like how wildlife knows not to eat certain plants. I used to know I
>> was approaching Italy from 20 miles off shore... anyone ever cruised
>> to Naples knows I ain't lying.
>
>I have been known to step into MacDonalds in European cities just to
>listen to the language. I am few up with people whining about the
>American influence, so I wanted to see if it was full of American
>tourists or the locals...... I always heard the local language, so it
>was the locals eating there.
>
>I did once go into a MacDonalds in Baden Baden Germany. It was the only
>place open on a Sunday morning and it sold soft drinks at reasonable
>prices in a land where they charge a lot for pop.

We went to Europe, France and Italy with our teenaged grand daughters
and we did go to a McD or Burger King just because they wanted to. No
big deal.

aloha,
Cea

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:21:25 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 27/09/2011 6:10 AM, ViLco wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I had sticker shock on several occasions when I was in Italy in 1993.
>>> I still have the bill for our dinner in Venice..... 315,000 Lira,
>>> about $315 at the time, a hell of a lot for a mediocre dinner for
>>> three.
>>
>> That's a totap rip-off: 315.000 lire in 1993 were worth more than 315 euros
>> nowadays. In 1993 medium restaurants would ask you 25k to 35k lire, now they
>> ask for 35 to 50 euros...
>
>Yes. It was a ripoff. I guess we were paying for the location, since it
>was at a place on the Grand Canal, right around the corner from St.
>Marks square. The dinner was not great. My wife and I had seafood
>platters, skimpy portions of mediocre fish, and my son had veal
>Parmesan. He said it was good but still.... veal Parmesan. There was one
>piece of cake ordered for desert, a bottle of water, a bottle of wine
>and two coffees. That would be a lot to pay now for that meal, and an
>absolute rip off at the time. It was part of the reason that of all the
>European countries I have visited, I have no interest in returning to Italy.

Wow- Interesting Dave. I love Europe although I have not been to
Venice. But when I have gone, I check out restaurants etc on Virtual
Tourist web site and review them, print out the list and I have never
ever been disappointed. VT even gives you the price you should expect
as well as the summary of the meal, and it gives you suggested places
to stay- with prices, and sights not to miss. (And I have used VT for
the UK, Italy, France and Iceland.) VT is awesome- although I have not
used them for a year.

Finally to this whole thread- IMHO, one does not go to Europe to save
money or find a bargain. The Culture is pretty much free and worth
zillions. Soak it in- it's not like that at home.

aloha,
Cea

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 23:30:23 +0200, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Dave Smith" > wrote
>
>>
>> One thing I learned about travelling over the years is that proximity to
>> major tourist attractions inflates prices dramatically. When I was in
>> Paris with my brothers and their wives about 12 years ago, they were
>> unwilling to wander away from major sites and I paid outrageous prices for
>> small servings of mediocre food. I have had much better food for about
>> half the price just a few blocks further away from those sites.
>>
>
>Travelling with others can be a PITA. There is one couple though, that
>we've gone places with. They are up to try most anything once and expenses
>are always shared with no complaints.
>
>Best deals to be had are off the beaten path or a recommendation.
>
>Talk about tourist markups. . . . . . . bought some leather goods today.
>Leather can be found easily, some good, some less so, but acceptable at good
>prices. We found a high quality shop five years ago and the owner is from
>Texas. After some conversation, she offered a discount for cash. We went
>back again and were treated well. Went back today and she is gone for
>extended vacation. I mentioned to the shopkeeper that she always gave us a
>discount for cash. My wife's handbag went from 165 to 100 and my wallet
>went from 52 to 20 and he did not even blink.

Wow, you stole it, they lost money. I buy leather pen cases that cost
more. A very mediocre men's leather wallet retails for like $75, I'm
talking Walmart quality here. I bought a kidskin wallet in Italy when
I was in the navy, soft like butter, fifty years later I'm still using
it and it's like new, I think I paid the equivalant of $40 back then,
would probably go for $200 today. I honestly don't think it's
possible to buy any leather wallet today for $20, and you don't get
much for $50.... I paid $50 for a simple leather check book cover not
too long ago.
http://www.levenger.com/PAGETEMPLATES/PRODUCT/Product.asp?Params=Category=15-1031|Level=2-3|PageID=7573

On 9/27/2011 7:25 PM, pure kona wrote:

>
> Finally to this whole thread- IMHO, one does not go to Europe to save
> money or find a bargain. The Culture is pretty much free and worth
> zillions. Soak it in- it's not like that at home.
>
> aloha,
> Cea



Bingo!

The trouble is, 40-50 years ago Europe was cheap for U.S. travelers.
Do you remember the "Europe on $5 a Day" travel guides? Times have
changed along with currency exchange rates, and foreign tourists find
the U.S. much cheaper than their own countries.

If people don't find travel exciting on its own (sightseeing, culture,
history, food, etc.) it's better that they stay home rather than spread
the old Ugly American stereotype.

gloria p

On 9/27/2011 3:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> Talk about tourist markups. . . . . . . bought some leather goods today.
> Leather can be found easily, some good, some less so, but acceptable at
> good prices. We found a high quality shop five years ago and the owner
> is from Texas. After some conversation, she offered a discount for cash.
> We went back again and were treated well. Went back today and she is
> gone for extended vacation. I mentioned to the shopkeeper that she
> always gave us a discount for cash. My wife's handbag went from 165 to
> 100 and my wallet went from 52 to 20 and he did not even blink.
>
>

That was robbery on your part, even if it was euros. You did well.

gloria p

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
>> news
>> > This morning we went to the Penny Market for some supplies, such as
>> > wine.
>> > For the four bottles I paid (in dollars) $1.75, $1.89, $1.74, $3.11
>> > Of
>> > the two opened, they are decent. You'd pay $8 to $12 a bottle in the
>> > US
>> >
>> > Diesel fuel though, was $7.60 a gallon. That is the price for heating
>> > oil
>> > too!
>> >
>> > A carton of 10 eggs was $1.48.
>> >
>> > We stopped at a McDonalds for the restrooms and grabbed a couple of
>> > Cokes
>> > for $2.83 each. They are $1 in the US, at least in our area.
>> > They did have a 1 Euro menu, and they charge .25 for a packet of
>> > ketchup
>> > or mayo.
>>
>> Holy crap! I'd go broke on the ketchup! I can easily eat 4 or more
>> packets
>> personally for a small order of fries. Not that I eat their food,
>> because I
>> don't.
>>
>> My brother was in England some years ago and he said the cheapest place
>> to
>> get a soda was Pizza Hut. He said the drinks were huge and cheap. And
>> they
>> may have included refills. That part I don't remember. He said in
>> regular
>> restaurants they were given juice glass sized drinks that were very
>> expensive and there were no refills.
>
> Not everybody feels the need to gulp down gallons and gallons of sugary
> crap.

No one in my family drinks sugary drinks. We only drink diet.

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> news
> > This morning we went to the Penny Market for some supplies, such as wine.
> > For the four bottles I paid (in dollars) $1.75, $1.89, $1.74, $3.11 Of
> > the two opened, they are decent. You'd pay $8 to $12 a bottle in the US
> >
> > Diesel fuel though, was $7.60 a gallon. That is the price for heating oil
> > too!
> >
> > A carton of 10 eggs was $1.48.
> >
> > We stopped at a McDonalds for the restrooms and grabbed a couple of Cokes
> > for $2.83 each. They are $1 in the US, at least in our area.
> > They did have a 1 Euro menu, and they charge .25 for a packet of ketchup
> > or mayo.
>
> Holy crap! I'd go broke on the ketchup! I can easily eat 4 or more packets
> personally for a small order of fries. Not that I eat their food, because I
> don't.
>
> My brother was in England some years ago and he said the cheapest place to
> get a soda was Pizza Hut. He said the drinks were huge and cheap. And they
> may have included refills. That part I don't remember. He said in regular
> restaurants they were given juice glass sized drinks that were very
> expensive and there were no refills.

Not everybody feels the need to gulp down gallons and gallons of sugary
crap.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> I've been to Venice twice, now that I've experienced it, I can do 4
> days elsewhere instead of 2 in Venice.

If you dine at one of the many "bacari" which aren't tourist traps, you will
pay normal prices for food and wine. It is all in one phrase: don't get in
the tourist traps
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

Dave Smith wrote:

> One thing I learned about travelling over the years is that proximity
> to major tourist attractions inflates prices dramatically.

IMHO the proximity to major tourist attractions increases only the number of
tourist traps, because you can get bargains while eating out both in Venice
and in Rome. There's a bar in Piazza Navona, very touristic area of Rome,
with uniform-wearing waiters that has the same prices as any bar in normal
places in Italy (coffee 1 E, cappuccino 1.80 E) while in the one nearby you
pay a-la Piazza Navona (3 E coffee, 5 E cappuccino).
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:

>> My brother was in England some years ago and he said the cheapest place
>> to
>> get a soda was Pizza Hut. He said the drinks were huge and cheap. And
>> they
>> may have included refills. That part I don't remember. He said in
>> regular
>> restaurants they were given juice glass sized drinks that were very
>> expensive and there were no refills.
>
> Not everybody feels the need to gulp down gallons and gallons of sugary
> crap.
>
> Miche

Many years ago, Pepsi was in 12 ounce bottle and the advertising jingle was
"Pepsi Cola hits the spot, two full glasses, that's a lot"

a wrote:

>> I have no interest in returning to Italy.

> Venice is a giant rip off, a tourist trap.

Wrong, Venice has many good places and a lot of tourist traps, and from what
I read here the latter are doing a great business. WHat about collecting
soem information before going to Venice to get ripped on everything?

> It's like people who make a hundred trips to
> midtown Manhattan, they know absolutely nothing of NYC... every time I
> read about their trip to Carnegie Deli I LMAO... theyd do better
> dining at a Sabrett's pushcart and other street venders.

And this IMHO doesn't mean that Manhattan "giant rip off, a tourist trap",
it simply means that people can go to tourist traps or avoid them, nothing
else. The issue is people being not-informed and falling into toruist traps
at every step, not Manhattan or Venice or any other touristic place.
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

pure kona wrote:

> Wow- Interesting Dave. I love Europe although I have not been to
> Venice. But when I have gone, I check out restaurants etc on Virtual
> Tourist web site and review them, print out the list and I have never
> ever been disappointed. VT even gives you the price you should expect
> as well as the summary of the meal, and it gives you suggested places
> to stay- with prices, and sights not to miss. (And I have used VT for
> the UK, Italy, France and Iceland.) VT is awesome- although I have not
> used them for a year.

And that's just one of the many ways to arrive informed and skip the tourist
traps. Then one can ask on newsgroups and such.

> Finally to this whole thread- IMHO, one does not go to Europe to save
> money or find a bargain. The Culture is pretty much free and worth
> zillions. Soak it in- it's not like that at home.

Good point
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> >> news > >> > This morning we went to the Penny Market for some supplies, such as
> >> > wine.
> >> > For the four bottles I paid (in dollars) $1.75, $1.89, $1.74, $3.11
> >> > Of
> >> > the two opened, they are decent. You'd pay $8 to $12 a bottle in the
> >> > US
> >> >
> >> > Diesel fuel though, was $7.60 a gallon. That is the price for heating
> >> > oil
> >> > too!
> >> >
> >> > A carton of 10 eggs was $1.48.
> >> >
> >> > We stopped at a McDonalds for the restrooms and grabbed a couple of
> >> > Cokes
> >> > for $2.83 each. They are $1 in the US, at least in our area.
> >> > They did have a 1 Euro menu, and they charge .25 for a packet of
> >> > ketchup
> >> > or mayo.
> >>
> >> Holy crap! I'd go broke on the ketchup! I can easily eat 4 or more
> >> packets
> >> personally for a small order of fries. Not that I eat their food,
> >> because I
> >> don't.
> >>
> >> My brother was in England some years ago and he said the cheapest place
> >> to
> >> get a soda was Pizza Hut. He said the drinks were huge and cheap. And
> >> they
> >> may have included refills. That part I don't remember. He said in
> >> regular
> >> restaurants they were given juice glass sized drinks that were very
> >> expensive and there were no refills.
> >
> > Not everybody feels the need to gulp down gallons and gallons of sugary
> > crap.
>
> No one in my family drinks sugary drinks. We only drink diet.

Then not everybody feels the need to gulp down gallons and gallons of
overpriced, artificially-coloured, flavoured and sweetened crap.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

"gloria.p" > wrote
> Bingo!
>
> The trouble is, 40-50 years ago Europe was cheap for U.S. travelers.
> Do you remember the "Europe on $5 a Day" travel guides? Times have
> changed along with currency exchange rates, and foreign tourists find
> the U.S. much cheaper than their own countries.
>
> If people don't find travel exciting on its own (sightseeing, culture,
> history, food, etc.) it's better that they stay home rather than spread
> the old Ugly American stereotype.
>
> gloria p

Many items are priced in the same range as the US, in that an item will be 1
Euro instead of $1. The Euro, however, costs about $1.36 right now. Long
before we left, I just resolved it will be expensive, but it is just the
price of admission. Just as is the $7.90 a gallon diesel fuel, but I want
to see certain places that require a lot of driving. Just driving rt 65
(Futa Pass) to Bologna for instance.

Being is a city with 500 to 1000 year old buildings is just amazing. I can
look at some and admire the details and art for a long time.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 15:25:14 -1000, pure kona
> wrote:

>
> Wow- Interesting Dave. I love Europe although I have not been to
> Venice. But when I have gone, I check out restaurants etc on Virtual
> Tourist web site and review them, print out the list and I have never
> ever been disappointed. VT even gives you the price you should expect
> as well as the summary of the meal, and it gives you suggested places
> to stay- with prices, and sights not to miss. (And I have used VT for
> the UK, Italy, France and Iceland.) VT is awesome- although I have not
> used them for a year.

We should talk about travel here more often. This is the first time
I've ever heard of http://www.virtualtourist.com/. Looks a lot like
it's a travel version of Yelp.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:42:03 +1200, Miche > wrote:

> Not everybody feels the need to gulp down gallons and gallons of sugary
> crap.

We learned to ask for "tap water" because if you asked for water, they
would bring you a bottle filled with water (fizzy or still?) and
charge wine prices for it.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 01:10:03 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> No one in my family drinks sugary drinks. We only drink diet.
>
I'm sure she's absolutely mortified that she was soooo wrong.

--

You are what you eat, so avoid fruitcake and nuts.

On 27/09/2011 9:25 PM, pure kona wrote:

> Wow- Interesting Dave. I love Europe although I have not been to
> Venice. But when I have gone, I check out restaurants etc on Virtual
> Tourist web site and review them, print out the list and I have never
> ever been disappointed. VT even gives you the price you should expect
> as well as the summary of the meal, and it gives you suggested places
> to stay- with prices, and sights not to miss. (And I have used VT for
> the UK, Italy, France and Iceland.) VT is awesome- although I have not
> used them for a year.

I don't bother with that sort of thing. I prefer to wander around and
check out the menus to see what is available. It is helpful if there is
outdoor seating and you can see how the food looks. It has worked for me
in the past.


> Finally to this whole thread- IMHO, one does not go to Europe to save
> money or find a bargain. The Culture is pretty much free and worth
> zillions. Soak it in- it's not like that at home.

You're right. It is not the place to look for bargains, but there is a
wide range of places of destinations and prices. I fond Scandinavia to
be really expensive, but very nice. Restaurants meals were expensive but
very good. Germany tended to be expensive but high quality, actually
pretty good value IMO. While Paris was expensive, food and prices were
much better away from major tourist sites. In smaller cities like
Strasbourg, Reims and Verdun, hotels and restaurants were a lot cheaper.

On 28/09/2011 8:15 AM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:42:03 +1200, > wrote:
>
>> Not everybody feels the need to gulp down gallons and gallons of sugary
>> crap.
>
> We learned to ask for "tap water" because if you asked for water, they
> would bring you a bottle filled with water (fizzy or still?) and
> charge wine prices for it.
>
That's what happened to me in Denmark. We were in a hurry to grab a
quick meal and get out to meet some friends. There are not a lot of
restaurants in Denmark, and then tend to be pricey. I explained to the
waitress that we just wanted a quick meal and didn't have much time. My
wife ordered a glass of wine and I said "just water please", and my wife
asked for a glass of water too. The waitress brought two bottles of
water..... $10 each. and fwiw... that was 10 years ago.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in
>> We learned to ask for "tap water" because if you asked for water, they
>> would bring you a bottle filled with water (fizzy or still?) and
>> charge wine prices for it.
>>
> That's what happened to me in Denmark. We were in a hurry to grab a quick
> meal and get out to meet some friends. There are not a lot of restaurants
> in Denmark, and then tend to be pricey. I explained to the waitress that
> we just wanted a quick meal and didn't have much time. My wife ordered a
> glass of wine and I said "just water please", and my wife asked for a
> glass of water too. The waitress brought two bottles of water..... $10
> each. and fwiw... that was 10 years ago.

You must eat at fancy places. We ordered water and got a liter for 1.5
euro.

The water here has lots of limestone. You can see it settle in the bottom
of the glass. We've been drinking a lot of bottles, but cheap from the
supermarket.

Pay for mayo and ketchup :O ? 7.60 a gallon diesel? I would rather walk.
and whats with 2.38 for coke? No wonder those *******s are so fit and good lookin

"greghouse" > wrote in message
...
>
> Pay for mayo and ketchup :O ? 7.60 a gallon diesel? I would rather
> walk.
> and whats with 2.38 for coke? No wonder those *******s are so fit and
> good lookin
>

I'm amazed at where I see people walking or riding a bike. Nothing around,
for a long distance, but a person would be walking along the road. In the
states, many people complain about a one block walk.

Fuel is expensive due to taxes. They also pay that price for heating oil.
Gasoline is about $0.50 more per gallon. Even if fuel was cheap, you'd still
want a smallish car here anyway. The roads are often narrow and twisting.