On 10/18/2011 1:25 PM, Cheryl wrote:
>
> Thanks all. Since there are millions of people who don't understand a
> single word of this thread, like me, I am satisfied that it won't burn
> down my home. It might not be done "right" which can be interpreted by
> people in the know in various ways like anything else, but the rest I'm
> going to take offline.
>
> I really appreciate the feedback and I am not bothered by the insults,
> Shelly.
>
>

I don't think your house is in any danger - not from your stove anyway.
Good luck with your new stove.

My stove has a nasty habit of flashing a "SE" message. I don't know what
that means except that my pancakes ain't going to get any more heat
until I can correct the problem. Working with the induction has it's ups
and downs but it's an adventure and a new experience so I guess it's all
worth it.

On 10/18/2011 7:32 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> My stove has a nasty habit of flashing a "SE" message. I don't know what
> that means except that my pancakes ain't going to get any more heat
> until I can correct the problem. Working with the induction has it's ups
> and downs but it's an adventure and a new experience so I guess it's all
> worth it.

I'm experimenting. The glass top makes it different from cooking on
coils, and when the ribbon goes bright red during heat up, isn't the
same as the coil going red in my old stove. I read a lot about
smoothtop cooking before I bought it and expected the learning curve. I
also have to experiment with different cooking vessels. I think my old
Technique hard anodized aluminum cookware isn't going to work due o the
bottom ridges, but luckily it's only 3 pieces plus a dutch oven. They
are supposed to be approved on glass but might not give the best
results. I just ordered a Cuisinart saute pan in stainless for
experimenting. I have other stainless with flat bottoms but they're all
old. Nothing is warped though.

The oven isn't going to be much different other than longer to preheat
with the coil hidden between two bottom floors. I like that though,
because I hated when something spilled in the oven all over the heating
element.

dsi1 > wrote:
-snip-
>
>My stove has a nasty habit of flashing a "SE" message. I don't know what
>that means except that my pancakes ain't going to get any more heat
>until I can correct the problem.

If a Google of your stove's make and the error code don't produce
anything-- try "5E" [or something else that looks like SE when LEDs
flash just when you don't want them to. [DAMHIKT]

Sometimes it is good to know what those electronics are trying to tell
us. [other times they can be ignored with no harm done]

Jim

"Cheryl" wrote in message ...

On 10/18/2011 7:32 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> My stove has a nasty habit of flashing a "SE" message. I don't know what
> that means except that my pancakes ain't going to get any more heat
> until I can correct the problem. Working with the induction has it's ups
> and downs but it's an adventure and a new experience so I guess it's all
> worth it.

I'm experimenting. The glass top makes it different from cooking on
coils, and when the ribbon goes bright red during heat up, isn't the
same as the coil going red in my old stove. I read a lot about
smoothtop cooking before I bought it and expected the learning curve. I
also have to experiment with different cooking vessels. I think my old
Technique hard anodized aluminum cookware isn't going to work due o the
bottom ridges, but luckily it's only 3 pieces plus a dutch oven. They
are supposed to be approved on glass but might not give the best
results. I just ordered a Cuisinart saute pan in stainless for
experimenting. I have other stainless with flat bottoms but they're all
old. Nothing is warped though.

The oven isn't going to be much different other than longer to preheat
with the coil hidden between two bottom floors. I like that though,
because I hated when something spilled in the oven all over the heating
element.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Check the last section in the manual that came with your new stove. You
will probably find error messages and explanations there. Incidentally, I
always go online and download the manual when I make major purchases. The
manual is usually available in PDF format. I then "save to" a folder of
manuals that I keep in my files. That has come in handy many times because
it saves time when I want to look something up, and the manual is only a few
keystrokes away.

MaryL

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:37:06 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

>On Oct 17, 12:13*pm, zxcvbob > wrote:
>> Cheryl wrote:
>> > On 10/16/2011 2:19 PM, Lou Decruss wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:47:15 -0400, >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>> On 10/15/2011 12:03 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>>
>> >>>> How old is the hardwire wire that comes out of the wall. * *Why can't
>> >>>> it be used to hardwire the new stove?
>> >>>> Seems to me you could unhook the old stove from the hard wire and then
>> >>>> use it for the new one.
>> >>>> Problem solved.
>>
>> >>> The old wire coming out of the wall is split into three; two 120v and
>> >>> one ground. *The oven requires 4 wires.
>>
>> > I honestly have no idea. *I guess the receptacle box converts it.
>>
>> I know this is a little late, but the oven probably does NOT require 4
>> wires. *It should have 2 different cords available and a little
>> grounding jumper in the wiring box to remove if you uses a 4-wire cord
>> or add for a 3-wire.
>>
>> Four wires is better. *The 3-wire hookup is not legal if installed in
>> a mobile home or if the circuit breakers for the stove are in a
>> subpanel (rather than the main panel)
>>
>
>Here's a good explanation of the old way and how to upgrade it:
>
>In the past, wire cable for kitchen ranges included two hot wires and
>a stranded ground/neutral. This type of cable is called service
>entrance conductor (SE) cable. The range receptacle for this kind of
>cable accommodated a three-prong plug configuration. The problem with
>this arrangement was that the current-carrying neutral was the same as
>the ground for the appliance frame. Today, wire cables for kitchen
>ranges are still required to carry two hot conductors, and an
>equipment ground, but an additional wire, a white, insulated, neutral
>wire must also be included.

I've been on holiday for a week so sorry about the late post. That
explanation is the most accurate of what's been posted. Even though
the ground and the neutral are terminated at the same place they serve
different functions. The ground should NEVER carry a load. I did a
job years ago that some twit had messed up and if it was humid the
homeowner would get shocked in the basement.

Lou

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:30:19 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

>On Oct 17, 7:08*am, Lou Decruss > wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 16:40:56 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
>> > wrote:
>> >On Oct 16, 4:19*pm, Lou Decruss > wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:09:50 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >On Oct 16, 10:47*am, Cheryl > wrote:
>> >> >> On 10/15/2011 12:03 PM, ImStillMags wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > How old is the hardwire wire that comes out of the wall. * *Why can't
>> >> >> > it be used to hardwire the new stove?
>> >> >> > Seems to me you could unhook the old stove from the hard wire and then
>> >> >> > use it for the new one.
>> >> >> > Problem solved.
>>
>> >> >> The old wire coming out of the wall is split into three; two 120v and
>> >> >> one ground. *The oven requires 4 wires. *So something had to go between,
>> >> >> and a receptacle is the best choice. *I wouldn't have known how to make
>> >> >> those two wires and the ground wire into the receptacle even if I had
>> >> >> pictures from the web, which I did. *I just don't mess with that stuff.
>>
>> >> >Plus the proper installation will make it easier to sell the *house
>> >> >when the time comes. The guy we bought our house from had jury rigged
>> >> >another 220 line to run a dryer: He couldn't find another 220 breaker
>> >> >to fit the panel, so he took off the protective sheet metal plate, ran
>> >> >some romex through the attic, letting a circuit breaker dangle inside
>> >> >the breaker box and running the other end down the laundry room wall
>> >> >to a surface mount receptacle.
>>
>> >> >I make him rip everything out and make a tee into the gas line serving
>> >> >the water heater.
>>
>> >> Were you drinking when you wrote this dix? *What does the gas line or
>> >> the water heater have to do with anything?
>>
>> >1. A half-assed 220 VAC installation made the house unsafe and
>> >undesirable to buy.
>>
>> >2. For appliances that consume a lot of power, a safe alternative to
>> >half-assing a 220VAC installation is tapping into the gas line. Of
>> >course you have to think about what you need and how you will power
>> >it.
>>
>> Are you talking about converting the electric dryer to gas?
>>
>
>No. I'm talking about thinking about how you will supply energy to a
>dryer (or a range) before you buy one. You don't just wait for the
>delivery guy to show up and think, "Gee, how am I going to plug this
>in?" And you definitely don't make an unsafe electrical installation
>-- like the guy we bought the house from did -- just to make his
>electric dryer work. Especially when it is so easy to make a safe gas
>connection.

OK. I wasn't sure where you were going. Planning is a good thing but
the OP didn't listen to the advice she was given.

Lou

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 23:31:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>
>>In the past, wire cable for kitchen ranges included two hot wires and
>>a stranded ground/neutral. This type of cable is called service
>>entrance conductor (SE) cable. The range receptacle for this kind of
>>cable accommodated a three-prong plug configuration. The problem with
>>this arrangement was that the current-carrying neutral was the same as
>>the ground for the appliance frame. Today, wire cables for kitchen
>>ranges are still required to carry two hot conductors, and an
>>equipment ground, but an additional wire, a white, insulated, neutral
>>wire must also be included.
>
>Aha. This may explain why, when connecting a four-wire stove to an
>older three-wire circuit, the NEC wants you NOT to bridge the
>neutral and ground in the receptacle (as opposed to the appliance):
>because you would then be using a wirenut on a stranded wire,
>which is generally a really really bad idea.
>
>It would be an especially bad idea to use a wirenut on a stranded
>wire and then have this connection not in a box. And very especially
>bad to do all this in earthquake country...

NEC doesn't want them bridged because they serve different functions
and it has nothing to do with wire nuts. Wire nuts and stranded wire
are fine as long as you don't mix it with solid wire and even then if
there's several wires it can be done but not preferred.

Lou

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:04:49 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>Lou Decruss > wrote:
>
>>Read up-thread. There was no box.
>
>I'm hoping there was a box, since even if there is no outlet and
>the stove is wired directly to the circuit, this connection
>must be made inside a box.

Terminal block on the back of the stove.

Lou

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:26:19 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

>On Oct 17, 11:04*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>> Lou Decruss > wrote:
>>
>> >Read up-thread. *There was no box. *
>>
>> I'm hoping there was a box, since even if there is no outlet and
>> the stove is wired directly to the circuit, this connection
>> must be made inside a box.
>>
>> >She has a single phase 240 volt
>> >circuit with a ground. *There is no neutral there. *
>>
>> Right.
>>
>
>Au contraire. She has a single phase 240 volt circuit with a neutral.
>There is no grounding wire there. Unless the frame is grounded to a
>water pipe in the kitchen, which used to be code compliant.

The original wire was a ground which is now being shared as a neutral.
Lou

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:48:49 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> wrote:

>On Oct 17, 5:05*pm, dsi1 > wrote:
>> On 10/17/2011 1:30 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 17, 4:20 pm, > *wrote:
>> >> On 10/16/2011 11:49 AM, Lou Decruss wrote:
>>
>> >>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:54:25 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
>> >>> > * *wrote:
>>
>> >>>> On Oct 16, 10:10 am, > * *wrote:
>> >>>>> On Oct 16, 1:09 pm, > * *wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>> The fourth wire is the wire that your wiring uses for the 120V
>> >>>>>> appliances. It is used in conjunction with one of the 120V lines to
>> >>>>>> supply power for the control systems and the oven light.
>>
>> >>>>> dsi is talking about the neutral wire.
>>
>> >>>> When I was going to electronics school, the instructor used to call it
>> >>>> the return. Is the term "return" ever used by electricians? Thanks.
>>
>> >>> I've never heard it used. *It handles the balance of the load between
>> >>> phases. *Return doesn't make much sense as AC current isn't
>> >>> directional. *I guess if you're sharing a neutral between phases I can
>> >>> see how he/she used the term. *If you put an amprobe on a perfectly
>> >>> balanced panel the incoming neutral will read zero. *The same will
>> >>> happen out in the field. *It's damn near impossible to have that
>> >>> situation in the real world.
>>
>> >> My guess is that the return path is mostly a power generation term. I
>> >> haven't seen the word used in household wiring either. I was looking for
>> >> one of those hot wire probes that used your body to light up the neon
>> >> indicator. They don't seem to sell them anymore. Dangit!
>>
>> > Return path is a DC circuit term.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Lou explained what's going on in house wiring. Each hot lead serves as
>> > the "return" for the other. But, if the loads are unbalanced, then
>> > current will flow on the neutral, proportional to the imbalance.
>>
>> I guess you could see it that way but the neutral wire would really be
>> used in conjunction with one of the hot wires to provide power to the
>> subsystems so even if you're not using the 220 circuit, current still
>> flows through the neutral.
>>
>> OTOH, I haven't really studied the circuit for a modern electronic
>> stove. You could make an electronic stove that doesn't need a neutral
>> but that would add complexity. The chassis should still be grounded though.
>
>Finding a diagram of how household wiring works is hard as hell. This
>is the best I could find. Scroll down to the figure Step-down
>transformer with center-tapped secondary winding. The top and bottom
>leads are the hots, while the center tap is the neutral. Scrolling to
>the next figure makes it clear: the two hot leads are 180 degrees out
>of phase.
>
>If you like to think in terms of the "return," then the neutral line
>is the "return" for both hot leads. Except, if the loads are exactly
>balanced (Figure on next page, entitled "Split phase system draws half
>the current of 125 A at 240 Vac compared to 120 Vac system.") zero
>current flows on the neutral. Again, if the loads are unbalanced,
>current will flow in the neutral.
>
>Now, in the case of the 240 VAC powered range, the lamps, timers,
>spark lighters, etc., will likely be hooked between one hot lead and
>neutral. Thus the range will generate an unbalanced load. But if other
>appliances are drawing current, they may cancel out the current
>injected into the neutral by the range.

Other appliances will only balance it at the main service entrance.
The stove neutral will still carry a load.

Lou