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On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:45:52 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:
> I was just referring to the cooking group. If it's my personal feed, > Facebook likes to "prioritize" those so that I lose interest in the > first page before I've read all 20 of them. I could really care less > who's playing what new games, answering questions about me, and who > wants to give me free prizes. There are other more important things. > > Facebook is Evil. > > -sw https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A...0/Facebook.jpg or http://tinyurl.com/69gcffm -- Cheers Chatty Cathy |
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![]() "Sqwertz" > wrote in message ... > On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:03:59 -0500, Andy wrote: > >> All is forgiven! > > He didn't ask for nor want your forgiveness from you, asshole. Never > for minute think that deep down inside, and even in death, that he > doesn't think you're a prime jackass. > > And don't forget it. > > And I know he'd approve of this message. Indeed he would!!! Well said, Steve!!! I can never forgive those the mocked his disability and I hope they rot in hell! We exhanged mail a few times and he was a lovely man! -- http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:00:13 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote: >On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:55:49 -0600, Pennyaline wrote: > >> On 10/27/2011 10:39 PM, Sqwertz wrote: >> >>> If the moderators don't want people joining then those moderators can >>> use their Moderator Super Powers to deny posting privileges for those >>> damn rabble rousers. >> >> Thank you for the link. I tried the "exact phrase" as you gave it to me >> earlier, but there was an error in it. That explains why it didn't work. > >An error in it? I just tried it from an another Facebook account that >has never even heard of the word "cooking" and it came up as soon as I >typed "RFC o". I think you were just frustrated and didn't try it. > I didn't even go to Facebook. My super-Google powers typed rec.food.cooking facebook which returned this as the first hit "recfoodcooking - Wall | Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/recfoo...751438?sk=wall If Usenet's rec.food.cooking has you down because of the noise:signal ratio, check in here with your questions. Keep the conversation polite and about food and ..." Probably it, I imagine. No interest myself. Jim |
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![]() "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message ... > On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:39:36 -0600, Pennyaline > > wrote: > > >>BTW, I'm on Facebook. What does that have to do with it? > > That's where the announcement was made. It wasn't made here, except > from those of us who saw the announcement on FB. I am not on facebook and had it not been published here I would not have known. I am very grateful to those who did so. -- http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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On 10/28/2011 12:03 AM, Pennyaline wrote:
> I'm never so frustrated that I won't try something. Wonderful... now why don't you try being quiet? This thread is not about you and your paranoid delusions about being excluded from some Facebook page.... it is about remembering someone who has passed on and that is a lot more important then your little insecurities. Build a bridge... and get over it. George L |
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On 10/28/2011 5:13 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:00:13 -0500, > > wrote: >> An error in it? I just tried it from an another Facebook account that >> has never even heard of the word "cooking" and it came up as soon as I >> typed "RFC o". I think you were just frustrated and didn't try it. >> > > I didn't even go to Facebook. My super-Google powers typed > rec.food.cooking facebook > which returned this as the first hit > "recfoodcooking - Wall | Facebook > http://www.facebook.com/pages/recfoo...751438?sk=wall > If Usenet's rec.food.cooking has you down because of the noise:signal > ratio, check in here with your questions. Keep the conversation polite > and about food and ..." > > Probably it, I imagine. No interest myself. No, that's not the one, but it is the only thing I had been able to find via a simple search before I got the link. Even so, now, knowing the name of the group, I am still not able to search for it or go directly to it. I can get there only with the link. The page is quite boring, BTW. But then, FB is not a good medium for spirited interaction, is it? One-sided statement of ideas and opinions works there, but exchange of ideas is nonexistent. Actual learning and growth just doesn't happen in the FB environment (that must be why it's so popular). |
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![]() "gloria.p" > wrote in message ... > On 10/27/2011 10:04 PM, Bob Terwilliger wrote: >> Pennyaline wrote: >> >>> where is the RFC page? The only one I've ever found has no members and >>> no >>> activity. >> >> Apparently there are some who want to keep it obscure. (Of course, that's >> in >> complete disregard of the "all information should be shared" concept >> espoused by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg. > > > > Keeping it "obscure" has prevented much of the obnoxious noise and > pointless bickering from migrating from the Usenet site to FB. You mean like the one happening here and now ... ? ![]() -- http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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![]() "Cheryl" > wrote in message ... > On 10/27/2011 9:14 PM, Sqwertz wrote: >> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:51:09 -0500, Sqwertz wrote: >> >>> I just went back and reread all the email we had exchanged over the >>> course of almost 10 years (probably longer, but that's all I have). >> >> And the last two days worth of posts. >> >> Sheldon can now go uncontested in most of his rantings. Sorry Blake, >> but I can't un-killfile Catz and do for you what I did for Bob >> Pastorio. I hope you'll understand. > > I've only known of two regular posters who have passed since I've been > reading here, and I think they both have something that everyone will > remember. Blake had his sig, your pal, and Blinky had the Usenet > Improvement Project. > > Long live them both. I still miss Christy ![]() -- http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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![]() "George Leppla" > wrote in message ... > On 10/28/2011 12:03 AM, Pennyaline wrote: > >> I'm never so frustrated that I won't try something. > > Wonderful... now why don't you try being quiet? > > This thread is not about you and your paranoid delusions about being > excluded from some Facebook page.... it is about remembering someone who > has passed on and that is a lot more important then your little > insecurities. > > Build a bridge... and get over it. > AMEN!!! -- http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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On 28/10/2011 12:47 AM, Pennyaline wrote:
> > >> That announcement was made to blake's >> Facebook friends, and some of those friends passed it on to the Facebook >> group -- just as some blake's friends passed the news to *this* group. > > I understand that. I have had no problem understanding that, right from > the start. I've also had no problem writing it correctly. > > What a shame that this observation of Blake's passing has done nothing > but reveal some r.f.c. members' desire to be a secret society. Go join > the Freemasons for that, for chrissake! The only thing it has brought out is your paranoia. No one was trying to keep anything from anyone. Those of us who are on FB and who were FB friends with Blake and who have our pages set up to accept updates were sent messages about his passing. I happened to be on FB when the message came in and I immediately passed it on the RFC because I was sure that people would want to know. Excuse the hell out of me for referencing that I heard about it on FB. I was just passing on what I heard from that source. Meanwhile.... maybe you can figure out how to set up your FB account so that you get a copy of every message sent out on FB each day. Fercrissakes... I got the information and immediately posted it publicly so that everyone here would know. That doesn't sound like a conspiracy to normal people. |
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On 10/28/2011 6:12 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 10/28/2011 12:03 AM, Pennyaline wrote: > >> I'm never so frustrated that I won't try something. > > Wonderful... now why don't you try being quiet? > > This thread is not about you and your paranoid delusions about being > excluded from some Facebook page.... it is about remembering someone who > has passed on and that is a lot more important then your little > insecurities. > > Build a bridge... and get over it. > Wow. Eight hours later? Perhaps you should read everything in the thread before you start yelping. Shaddap! |
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On 10/28/2011 6:51 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> > "George Leppla" > wrote in message > ... >> On 10/28/2011 12:03 AM, Pennyaline wrote: >> >>> I'm never so frustrated that I won't try something. >> >> Wonderful... now why don't you try being quiet? >> >> This thread is not about you and your paranoid delusions about being >> excluded from some Facebook page.... it is about remembering someone >> who has passed on and that is a lot more important then your little >> insecurities. >> >> Build a bridge... and get over it. >> > > AMEN!!! Shaddap to you, too. Read the whole thread. You're hours behind. |
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In article >, Sqwertz > wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:54:53 -0700, Christine Dabney wrote: > >> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:39:36 -0600, Pennyaline >> > wrote: >> >>>BTW, I'm on Facebook. What does that have to do with it? >> >> That's where the announcement was made. It wasn't made here, except >> from those of us who saw the announcement on FB. > >Some of us read Facebook less often than Usenet. I haven't even >looked there yet. What's Facebook? Is it something I should know about? I shall miss Blake. I always enjoyed reading his posts. Cheers, Phred. -- LID |
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On 28/10/2011 12:09 AM, Pennyaline wrote:
> On 10/27/2011 10:04 PM, Bob Terwilliger wrote: >> Pennyaline wrote: >> >>> where is the RFC page? The only one I've ever found has no members >>> and no >>> activity. >> >> Apparently there are some who want to keep it obscure. (Of course, >> that's in >> complete disregard of the "all information should be shared" concept >> espoused by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg. >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...cebook-privacy) But if >> you friend some of the RFC Facebook participants (e.g., Christine Dabney) >> you might gain access that way. > > Nah. I've been on this group since 2003. If I can't get access to a FB > page without kissing other members' asses, well that's just horse shit. > And if other n.g. members want to restrict access, they're just horse > shit, too. > Is there some sort of medication you should be taking? If you are in FB it should not be hard for you to use their search option to look up R.F.C. |
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On Oct 27, 9:20*pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> Sqwertz wrote: > > > Facebook is Evil. > > > -sw > > Agreed. You've all convinced me that I was correct never to sign up. MOre time for better endeavors. |
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On 10/28/2011 7:51 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 28/10/2011 12:47 AM, Pennyaline wrote: > >> >> >>> That announcement was made to blake's >>> Facebook friends, and some of those friends passed it on to the Facebook >>> group -- just as some blake's friends passed the news to *this* group. >> >> I understand that. I have had no problem understanding that, right from >> the start. I've also had no problem writing it correctly. >> >> What a shame that this observation of Blake's passing has done nothing >> but reveal some r.f.c. members' desire to be a secret society. Go join >> the Freemasons for that, for chrissake! > > The only thing it has brought out is your paranoia. No one was trying to > keep anything from anyone. Those of us who are on FB and who were FB > friends with Blake and who have our pages set up to accept updates were > sent messages about his passing. I happened to be on FB when the message > came in and I immediately passed it on the RFC because I was sure that > people would want to know. The statement was made here more than once that secrecy and *obscurity* must be maintained to keep undesirable elements out. Moderators discourage mentioning the FB page outside the circle. Attempts to pass page info to me without revealing its actual name or location were made. The admission that page members are indeed trying to keep things from n.g. members is highly indicative that someone is trying to keep something from someone else. The event didn't expose MY paranoia, if you get my drift. > Excuse the hell out of me for referencing that I heard about it on FB. I > was just passing on what I heard from that source. > > Meanwhile.... maybe you can figure out how to set up your FB account so > that you get a copy of every message sent out on FB each day. > > Fercrissakes... I got the information and immediately posted it publicly > so that everyone here would know. That doesn't sound like a conspiracy > to normal people. Wow. You're still not getting it. Oh well. Moving on. |
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On 10/28/2011 7:59 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> Is there some sort of medication you should be taking? > If you are in FB it should not be hard for you to use their search > option to look up R.F.C. Try reading the entire thread, wherein the problem with searching for RFC was explained. Then move on, honey. |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 07:54:22 -0600, Pennyaline
> wrote: >On 10/28/2011 6:51 AM, Ophelia wrote: >> >> "George Leppla" > wrote in message >> ... >>> On 10/28/2011 12:03 AM, Pennyaline wrote: >>> >>>> I'm never so frustrated that I won't try something. >>> >>> Wonderful... now why don't you try being quiet? >>> >>> This thread is not about you and your paranoid delusions about being >>> excluded from some Facebook page.... it is about remembering someone >>> who has passed on and that is a lot more important then your little >>> insecurities. >>> >>> Build a bridge... and get over it. >>> >> >> AMEN!!! > > >Shaddap to you, too. Read the whole thread. You're hours behind. Your comments and attitudes in this thread are beyond any interpretation of common decency, under these or any other circumstances. I am generally not much of a cheerleader for Facebook, and it is difficult to think of it with less respect than that with which I already hold, but in this case, I am thrilled that you hadn't the wherewithall to wander over there and despoil it even more your droppings. Boron |
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On 10/28/2011 8:53 AM, Pennyaline wrote:
>> > > Wow. Eight hours later? Perhaps you should read everything in the thread > before you start yelping. Shaddap! Unlike you, I have a life that doesn't include sitting up in the middle of the night, anonymously whining on Usenet about how I'm being excluded from something. As for your other posts, all I came away with is that you are too dumb to find a public Facebook page on your own and can't even find it when someone hands you a road map. Dumber than a bag of rocks. A LARGE bag. George L |
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On 10/28/2011 8:16 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
> Your comments and attitudes in this thread are beyond any > interpretation of common decency, under these or any other > circumstances. > > I am generally not much of a cheerleader for Facebook, and it is > difficult to think of it with less respect than that with which I > already hold, but in this case, I am thrilled that you hadn't the > wherewithall to wander over there and despoil it even more your > droppings. Move on, dear. |
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On 10/28/2011 9:02 AM, Pennyaline wrote:
> The statement was made here more than once that secrecy and *obscurity* > must be maintained to keep undesirable elements out. If that is true, thank you for being the example of why that secrecy is necessary. I'm thinking you would get voted off the island very quickly. George L |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:20:49 -0600, Pennyaline
> wrote: >On 10/28/2011 8:16 AM, Boron Elgar wrote: >> Your comments and attitudes in this thread are beyond any >> interpretation of common decency, under these or any other >> circumstances. >> >> I am generally not much of a cheerleader for Facebook, and it is >> difficult to think of it with less respect than that with which I >> already hold, but in this case, I am thrilled that you hadn't the >> wherewithall to wander over there and despoil it even more your >> droppings. > > >Move on, dear. Not until you kiss my pucker. |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 07:43:41 -0500, Bull >
wrote: >In article >, Andy > wrote: > > >Surprised you would even show your low life mush for brains face in this >thread! The mick gave as good as he got and he loved the attention. The party is over. Show some respect. |
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On 10/28/2011 8:18 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 10/28/2011 8:53 AM, Pennyaline wrote: >>> >> >> Wow. Eight hours later? Perhaps you should read everything in the thread >> before you start yelping. Shaddap! > > > Unlike you, I have a life that doesn't include sitting up in the middle > of the night, anonymously whining on Usenet about how I'm being excluded > from something. > > As for your other posts, all I came away with is that you are too dumb > to find a public Facebook page on your own and can't even find it when > someone hands you a road map. > > Dumber than a bag of rocks. A LARGE bag. Who was sitting up in the middle of the night? You've read ALL of my other posts? I doubt it. I guess you don't know as much as your think you do. Move on. |
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On 10/28/2011 8:21 AM, George Leppla wrote:
> On 10/28/2011 9:02 AM, Pennyaline wrote: >> The statement was made here more than once that secrecy and *obscurity* >> must be maintained to keep undesirable elements out. > > If that is true, thank you for being the example of why that secrecy is > necessary. > > I'm thinking you would get voted off the island very quickly. Whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa. Move on. |
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On 10/28/2011 8:29 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:20:49 -0600, Pennyaline > > wrote: > >> On 10/28/2011 8:16 AM, Boron Elgar wrote: >>> Your comments and attitudes in this thread are beyond any >>> interpretation of common decency, under these or any other >>> circumstances. >>> >>> I am generally not much of a cheerleader for Facebook, and it is >>> difficult to think of it with less respect than that with which I >>> already hold, but in this case, I am thrilled that you hadn't the >>> wherewithall to wander over there and despoil it even more your >>> droppings. >> >> >> Move on, dear. > > Not until you kiss my pucker. Get your head out of the way. Move on, dear. |
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On 28/10/2011 10:02 AM, Pennyaline wrote:
>> >> The only thing it has brought out is your paranoia. No one was trying to >> keep anything from anyone. Those of us who are on FB and who were FB >> friends with Blake and who have our pages set up to accept updates were >> sent messages about his passing. I happened to be on FB when the message >> came in and I immediately passed it on the RFC because I was sure that >> people would want to know. > > > The statement was made here more than once that secrecy and *obscurity* > must be maintained to keep undesirable elements out. The cabal??? LMAO.... it is a standing joke. > Moderators discourage mentioning the FB page outside the circle. You are a paranoid loonie. There is no moderator >> Excuse the hell out of me for referencing that I heard about it on FB. I >> was just passing on what I heard from that source. >> >> Meanwhile.... maybe you can figure out how to set up your FB account so >> that you get a copy of every message sent out on FB each day. >> >> Fercrissakes... I got the information and immediately posted it publicly >> so that everyone here would know. That doesn't sound like a conspiracy >> to normal people. > > > Wow. You're still not getting it. Oh well. Moving on. No. You are not moving on. You are still whining about information being withheld in a case where I immediately posted here for the benefit of those who did not get in in FB. You were not a FB of Blake and not a member of the R.F.C FB group so you would not have the notification there, but you got it here. As I pointed it out before, if we were keeping the news to ourselves (we the cabal) then it would not have been immediately posted here. > |
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On 10/28/2011 8:50 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> The cabal??? LMAO.... it is a standing joke. <snip> > You are a paranoid loonie. There is no moderator <snip> > No. You are not moving on. You are still whining about information being > withheld in a case where I immediately posted here for the benefit of > those who did not get in in FB. You were not a FB of Blake and not a > member of the R.F.C FB group so you would not have the notification > there, but you got it here. > > As I pointed it out before, if we were keeping the news to ourselves (we > the cabal) then it would not have been immediately posted here. I didn't say that you withheld information. I gave you an F in writing. You are SO far behind. Let it go. Give it up. Move on. |
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On 10/27/2011 11:31 PM, Pennyaline wrote:
> > > Answers would help. Search for RFC on Facebook. Becca |
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On 10/28/2011 1:05 AM, notbob wrote:
> As always, I'm saddened when a person, specially a fellow rfc'er, has > passed on. Loved or villified, Blake was a fellow voyager in life who > deserved our respect, if for no other reason, than merely being in the > same boat as the rest of us. > > nb First we lost Lynn and now Blake. They were both too young to be leaving us; it has been a bad month for rfc. Becca |
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![]() "Boron Elgar" > wrote in message ... > On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 07:54:22 -0600, Pennyaline > > wrote: > >>On 10/28/2011 6:51 AM, Ophelia wrote: >>> >>> "George Leppla" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> On 10/28/2011 12:03 AM, Pennyaline wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm never so frustrated that I won't try something. >>>> >>>> Wonderful... now why don't you try being quiet? >>>> >>>> This thread is not about you and your paranoid delusions about being >>>> excluded from some Facebook page.... it is about remembering someone >>>> who has passed on and that is a lot more important then your little >>>> insecurities. >>>> >>>> Build a bridge... and get over it. >>>> >>> >>> AMEN!!! >> >> >>Shaddap to you, too. Read the whole thread. You're hours behind. > > Your comments and attitudes in this thread are beyond any > interpretation of common decency, under these or any other > circumstances. > > I am generally not much of a cheerleader for Facebook, and it is > difficult to think of it with less respect than that with which I > already hold, but in this case, I am thrilled that you hadn't the > wherewithall to wander over there and despoil it even more your > droppings. Quite so. For her, this is nothing to do with Blake, only about her ego! There she goes making herself centre stage. -- http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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![]() "Pennyaline" > wrote in message ... > On 10/28/2011 6:51 AM, Ophelia wrote: >> >> "George Leppla" > wrote in message >> ... >>> On 10/28/2011 12:03 AM, Pennyaline wrote: >>> >>>> I'm never so frustrated that I won't try something. >>> >>> Wonderful... now why don't you try being quiet? >>> >>> This thread is not about you and your paranoid delusions about being >>> excluded from some Facebook page.... it is about remembering someone >>> who has passed on and that is a lot more important then your little >>> insecurities. >>> >>> Build a bridge... and get over it. >>> >> >> AMEN!!! > > > Shaddap to you, too. Read the whole thread. You're hours behind. What does it matter how many hours behind? I have read the thread and I am disgusted at your selfish behaviour! This is not about you!!! Live with it, which is more then Blake could! You are a nasty and selfish piece of work and you disgust me. -- http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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On 10/28/2011 11:23 AM, Ema Nymton wrote:
> On 10/28/2011 1:05 AM, notbob wrote: >> As always, I'm saddened when a person, specially a fellow rfc'er, has >> passed on. Loved or villified, Blake was a fellow voyager in life who >> deserved our respect, if for no other reason, than merely being in the >> same boat as the rest of us. > First we lost Lynn and now Blake. They were both too young to be leaving > us; it has been a bad month for rfc. We lost Alan Boles not that long ago, too. nancy |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:30:28 -0400, Nancy Young <email@replyto> wrote:
>On 10/28/2011 11:23 AM, Ema Nymton wrote: >> On 10/28/2011 1:05 AM, notbob wrote: >>> As always, I'm saddened when a person, specially a fellow rfc'er, has >>> passed on. Loved or villified, Blake was a fellow voyager in life who >>> deserved our respect, if for no other reason, than merely being in the >>> same boat as the rest of us. > >> First we lost Lynn and now Blake. They were both too young to be leaving >> us; it has been a bad month for rfc. > >We lost Alan Boles not that long ago, too. > >nancy I didn't know that. Janet US |
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On 10/28/2011 9:20 AM, Ema Nymton wrote:
> On 10/27/2011 11:31 PM, Pennyaline wrote: >> >> >> Answers would help. > > Search for RFC on Facebook. Thanks for your response. I did just that, and I got a lot of results for unrelated pages and groups that also contained RFC in their names, but not this group. Varied searches had already revealed some inactive page with no members (someone else mentioned having gotten this page, too, but I don't remember who it was that posted it). Until I got the link last evening, there was no way for me to get to the page at all. Even this morning, I still cannot find the page/group with a search. |
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On 10/28/2011 9:24 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> Quite so. For her, this is nothing to do with Blake, only about her ego! > There she goes making herself centre stage. Hey, I'm right here. You know what they say about talking about people like they're not there, right? Move on. |
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On 10/28/2011 9:24 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> What does it matter how many hours behind? I have read > the thread and I am disgusted at your selfish behaviour! This is not about > you!!! Live with it, which is more then Blake could! > > You are a nasty and selfish piece of work and you disgust me. Whaaa. Move on. |
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On 10/28/2011 9:38 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> > But the name of the group DOES NOT NOT APPEAR IN THE LINK. > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/45106798639/ > > Now you're just making stuff up. No, but it appears on the FB page when you arrive at the page. What you were telling me somewhat cryptically was to join RFC on Facebook. That's not how it appears on the page. At the time, I thought that was the reason. However, it seems that it was not the case after all, because when I searched FB again to get back to the group this morning, I couldn't find it by either spelling or capitalization variation. It didn't show up in any search combination, either. Only the link took me back to it. |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 01:03:54 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote: > Marty wrote: > > > > > > > Was that a moment of silence? > > Bob > > It worked for me. -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:22:05 +0200, ChattyCathy
> wrote: > On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:45:52 -0500, Sqwertz wrote: > > > > I was just referring to the cooking group. If it's my personal feed, > > Facebook likes to "prioritize" those so that I lose interest in the > > first page before I've read all 20 of them. I could really care less > > who's playing what new games, answering questions about me, and who > > wants to give me free prizes. There are other more important things. > > > > Facebook is Evil. > > > > -sw > > https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A...0/Facebook.jpg > > or > http://tinyurl.com/69gcffm So true. -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
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