On 11/8/2011 12:37 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> On 11/7/2011 9:51 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> There is no way Vicodin is effective taken only once per day, at least
>>> not for continuous pain. But it's not truly "take as needed" either
>>> as there is a strict limit on the amount of acetominophen you
>>> can take. The present guidelines are maximum 4 grams/day for ten days,
>>> and 2.5 grams/day if you're taking it longer than ten days.
>
>> My script says take one every 8 hours for pain. One doesn't even help
>> me anymore, though it did at first. 2 helps but I can only take them at
>> the end of the day when I get home from work. Right now I'm getting to
>> where I can't go to work and people who saw me cry tears in pain today
>> were asking why I wasn't at home. Well, somehow you have to deal with
>> it if you have a job.
>
> I haven't faced what you're facing, but what I did experience, recovering
> from a fracture earlier this year, that even if I could mentally ignore the
> pain, I needed the pain reliever (mostly Vicodin at the time) in order to
> concentrate on work. The pain affected my ability to concentrate and
> otherwise deal with everything.
>
>>> And there's not much margin of safety if you exceed these limits,
>>> and/or combine it with alcohol.
>
>>> The good news is that persons using opiates for pain control are
>>> not really at much risk of becoming addicted
>
>> I have combined it with alcohol. Lots of it. Maybe that's why it isn't
>> working anymore.
>
> Well there's several issues here, at the top of the list is that
> alcohol and acetominophen in combination cause liver toxicity, which
> you really don't want. A single 1.8 gram dose of acetominophen (i.e.
> fewer than four Vicodins) can be fatally toxic to a steady drinker.
>
> The next issue is that, whatever orthopedic problem your body is
> trying to recover from, alcohol inhibits your body's healing.
>
> And finally, yes what you mentioned above, your brain re-baselines when
> you drink steadily, and the alcohol input is needed just to get back to
> normal-feeling levels of various brain chemicals. So there's no net gain
> in terms of pain relief.
>
> So yeah, you might want to dial down the alcohol in addition to
> other measures to address this. Or if not, switch to something
> that does not have acetominophen in it. (Although a doctor is
> unlikely to buy such reasoning, unless you're a celebrity and
> they're a celebrity doctor.) A good alternative is vicoprofen.
>
> Good luck

Thanks Steve. I guess I'm sort of self medicating with the pain
med-alcohol cocktail. I just want to be knocked out. I will take all of
the information you wrote to heart because I know you're right.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 05:37:30 +0000 (UTC) in rec.food.cooking,
(Steve Pope) wrote,
>I haven't faced what you're facing, but what I did experience, recovering
>from a fracture earlier this year, that even if I could mentally ignore the
>pain, I needed the pain reliever (mostly Vicodin at the time) in order to
>concentrate on work. The pain affected my ability to concentrate and
>otherwise deal with everything.

Yes. I had broken my arm. When I went home from the hospital they
gave me a bottle of Vicoden with a childproof cap.

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 20:14:03 -0500, Cheryl >
wrote:

> I guess I'm sort of self medicating with the pain
> med-alcohol cocktail.

Sounded like a winner to me.

> I just want to be knocked out. I will take all of
> the information you wrote to heart because I know you're right.

Yeah, Steve brings the slap of reality to the table a lot of times -
but it was a good idea while it lasted.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:17:48 -0800, David Harmon >
wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 05:37:30 +0000 (UTC) in rec.food.cooking,
> (Steve Pope) wrote,
> >I haven't faced what you're facing, but what I did experience, recovering
> >from a fracture earlier this year, that even if I could mentally ignore the
> >pain, I needed the pain reliever (mostly Vicodin at the time) in order to
> >concentrate on work. The pain affected my ability to concentrate and
> >otherwise deal with everything.
>
> Yes. I had broken my arm. When I went home from the hospital they
> gave me a bottle of Vicoden with a childproof cap.
>
Damn! No whisky to go with it?

I'm guessing that child proof cap was their way of ensuring someone
else would do know how much of it you took.


--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

On 08/11/2011 9:17 PM, David Harmon wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 05:37:30 +0000 (UTC) in rec.food.cooking,
> (Steve Pope) wrote,
>> I haven't faced what you're facing, but what I did experience, recovering
>>from a fracture earlier this year, that even if I could mentally ignore the
>> pain, I needed the pain reliever (mostly Vicodin at the time) in order to
>> concentrate on work. The pain affected my ability to concentrate and
>> otherwise deal with everything.
>
> Yes. I had broken my arm. When I went home from the hospital they
> gave me a bottle of Vicoden with a childproof cap.
>
>
You don't think that a powerful pain killer like Vicoden should have
childproof caps?

I don't know about your pharmacy but the one we use will put
prescriptions in non childproof bottles. My wife gets them that way
because of her arthritis.

On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:11:48 -0500 in rec.food.cooking, Dave Smith
> wrote,
>You don't think that a powerful pain killer like Vicoden should have
>childproof caps?

No.

Not for a guy who lives alone and temporarily has the use of only
one hand.

>I don't know about your pharmacy but the one we use will put
>prescriptions in non childproof bottles. My wife gets them that way
>because of her arthritis.

They didn't ask, and I didn't look in the bag until I got home. I
wasn't functioning at my best level at the time.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:39:25 -0800, David Harmon >
wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:11:48 -0500 in rec.food.cooking, Dave Smith
> wrote,
>>You don't think that a powerful pain killer like Vicoden should have
>>childproof caps?
>
>No.
>
>Not for a guy who lives alone and temporarily has the use of only
>one hand.
>
>>I don't know about your pharmacy but the one we use will put
>>prescriptions in non childproof bottles. My wife gets them that way
>>because of her arthritis.
>
>They didn't ask, and I didn't look in the bag until I got home. I
>wasn't functioning at my best level at the time.

It's very easy to make those child proof caps so that they are no
longer childproof by filing away a few plastic tabs or carefully
slicing them away with a small knife, often they can be nipped off
with nail clippers... or simply dump your pills into a different
container. Instead of complaining you need to learn to help yourself.
There are so many products today with childproof caps, if it's
something I use often, like mouth wash, I disable the childproof
parts. For pills every drug store sells plain pill containers, and
weekly dosing containers... many mail order pharmacies will when
requested send one for free. The time to ask for non-childproof
containers is when you hand in the Rx, afterwards is too late

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Dan Abel > wrote:
>
> >Not only do they encourage refills by mail, but it works almost
> >automatically even if you have no refills left! You just order a
> >refill, and if there are no refills left, they send an electronic
> >message to your doctor, who can then refill the prescription. It's all
> >done on the computer.
>
> Yep
>
> >If there is no hurry, sometimes the initial order
> >is by mail.
>
> Okay, I haven't experienced that yet.

I've had it happen a couple of times that I remember. Once, the old
medicine was obsolete and the doctor recommended a new medicine that was
basically the same. OK. He said I should use up the old medicine, and
then asked whether I wanted to pick it up or have it mailed. Well,
mailed is easier. Another time, my blood pressure was a little high. I
was already on one medicine, so the pharmacist sent me an email saying
she was mailing me an additional pill to take.

> The glitch seems to be if it's a 100-day refill, and you send it
> to the pharmacy rather than doing a mail order, they often refill
> it for only 30 days. I have not figured out why this is.

My plan says that I get a three month supply. They usually round that
to 100 pills, since most of their pill bottles have 100 in them. From
conversations I've heard in the pharmacy, some plans are pushing mail
refills, so if you choose to pick it up instead, you pay the full copay
for 30 days, but the mail refill is 3 months.

> If it's a 30 day refill, there is no price advantage to refilling
> by mail. Haven't figured that out either. But overall it's a good
> system.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
Cheryl > wrote:


> > The good news is that persons using opiates for pain control are
> > not really at much risk of becoming addicted
>
> I have combined it with alcohol. Lots of it. Maybe that's why it isn't
> working anymore.
>
> . Addiction is an
> > outgrowth of recreational use, usually.
>
> I'm glad to hear that, and now I can actually see that it's true.

Although what Steve says is true, that's not of much help for those who
took opiates for pain who became seriously addicted to them.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:07:34 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

> My plan says that I get a three month supply. They usually round that
> to 100 pills, since most of their pill bottles have 100 in them.

<slapping forehead> I wondered why I get 100 instead of 90-93. TY

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

Dan Abel > wrote:

> Cheryl > wrote:

>> > The good news is that persons using opiates for pain control are
>> > not really at much risk of becoming addicted
>> . Addiction is an
>> > outgrowth of recreational use, usually.
>>
>> I'm glad to hear that, and now I can actually see that it's true.
>
>Although what Steve says is true, that's not of much help for those who
>took opiates for pain who became seriously addicted to them.

Yes, I did not intend to sound unsympathetic to such persons or
to deny that they exist. The main point I'm conveying is that
pain control can be very important and fear of addiction is
sometimes overblown and sometimes gets in the way of proper treatment.


S.

On Nov 17, 7:49*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Dan Abel > wrote:
>
> > Cheryl > wrote:
> >> > The good news is that persons using opiates for pain control are
> >> > not really at much risk of becoming addicted
> >> . *Addiction is an
> >> > outgrowth of recreational use, usually.
>
> >> I'm glad to hear that, and now I can actually see that it's true.
>
> >Although what Steve says is true, that's not of much help for those who
> >took opiates for pain who became seriously addicted to them.
>
> Yes, I did not intend to sound unsympathetic to such persons or
> to deny that they exist. * The main point I'm conveying is that
> pain control can be very important and fear of addiction is
> sometimes overblown and sometimes gets in the way of proper treatment.
>
> S.

The fear of addiction is greatly overblown when it comes to Vicodin.
Take Percocette for three months for pain, and yeah, you're going to
have a problem. However, I have taken Vicodin for extended periods of
time without addiction problems (hips collapsed - hip replacements).
It was a little unpleasant to stop, but I could work, sleep and be
just a little grouchy. It helped me through a very difficult period.
Addiction happens when people start upping their dosage and then ask
for something stronger. I will grant you that scaredy cat doctors will
disagree. Thanks the DEA for that. People on a stable dosage of
Vicodin are facing no more than a bad case of the crankies when they
stop. And there are people who actually NEED to have Vicodin or
stronger to function for the rest of their lives. If their doctors
monitor the usage, it's not a danger to anyone.

BillyZoom > wrote:

>The fear of addiction is greatly overblown when it comes to Vicodin.
>Take Percocette for three months for pain, and yeah, you're going to
>have a problem. However, I have taken Vicodin for extended periods of
>time without addiction problems (hips collapsed - hip replacements).
>It was a little unpleasant to stop, but I could work, sleep and be
>just a little grouchy. It helped me through a very difficult period.
>Addiction happens when people start upping their dosage and then ask
>for something stronger. I will grant you that scaredy cat doctors will
>disagree. Thanks the DEA for that. People on a stable dosage of
>Vicodin are facing no more than a bad case of the crankies when they
>stop. And there are people who actually NEED to have Vicodin or
>stronger to function for the rest of their lives. If their doctors
>monitor the usage, it's not a danger to anyone.

I suppose oxycodone is more addictive the hydrocodone, but if so
why is hydrocodone unavailable unless it's compounded?

Of course these things are not logical.

Steve