My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. He went and bought a fresh
brined one from Whole Foods. I don't remember the laundry list of
stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
rosematy and CILANTRO were. My son didn't say anything until we were
on the way home in the car, but he was very disappointed, and asked if
we could have Thanksgiving at our house from now on because the turkey
"tasted like crap." I was also disappointed because he cooked it
upside down, but never flipped it, so my favorite part, the crispy
wing tips, didn't happen. The cheapest frozen turkey, seasoned and
roasted more traditionally would have been so much better than his
pricey exercise in *creativity*.

I very much enjoyed the company, but I guess if I want the turkey done
right...

Lynne Rossetto Kasper was on the radio this morning, with her suck up
to the audience attitude. She was praising this idiot who was making
canned greens with freakin' Slim Jims from a vending machine.

--Bryan

On Nov 24, 5:01*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. *He went and bought a fresh
> brined one from Whole Foods. *I don't remember the laundry list of
> stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
> rosematy and CILANTRO were. *My son didn't say anything until we were
> on the way home in the car, but he was very disappointed, and asked if
> we could have Thanksgiving at our house from now on because the turkey
> "tasted like crap." *I was also disappointed because he cooked it
> upside down, but never flipped it, so my favorite part, the crispy
> wing tips, didn't happen. *The cheapest frozen turkey, seasoned and
> roasted more traditionally would have been so much better than his
> pricey exercise in *creativity*.
>
> I very much enjoyed the company, but I guess if I want the turkey done
> right...
>
> Lynne Rossetto Kasper was on the radio this morning, with her suck up
> to the audience attitude. *She was praising this idiot who was making
> canned greens with freakin' Slim Jims from a vending machine.
>
> --Bryan

I am so sorry Bryan, Johnny and Betsy! I know, I wish people would not
mess with tradition. My father, and mostly my sister and I got REALLY
good at making the whole spread of traditional Thanksgiving foods, and
it seems now like we've been usurped by the next generation. :-(

Oh well, I guess that's the way it goes!

John Kuthe...

On Nov 24, 5:19*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Nov 24, 5:01*pm, Bryan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. *He went and bought a fresh
> > brined one from Whole Foods. *I don't remember the laundry list of
> > stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
> > rosematy and CILANTRO were. *My son didn't say anything until we were
> > on the way home in the car, but he was very disappointed, and asked if
> > we could have Thanksgiving at our house from now on because the turkey
> > "tasted like crap." *I was also disappointed because he cooked it
> > upside down, but never flipped it, so my favorite part, the crispy
> > wing tips, didn't happen. *The cheapest frozen turkey, seasoned and
> > roasted more traditionally would have been so much better than his
> > pricey exercise in *creativity*.
>
> > I very much enjoyed the company, but I guess if I want the turkey done
> > right...
>
> > Lynne Rossetto Kasper was on the radio this morning, with her suck up
> > to the audience attitude. *She was praising this idiot who was making
> > canned greens with freakin' Slim Jims from a vending machine.
>
> > --Bryan
>
> I am so sorry Bryan, Johnny and Betsy! I know, I wish people would not
> mess with tradition. My father, and mostly my sister and I got REALLY
> good at making the whole spread of traditional Thanksgiving foods, and
> it seems now like we've been usurped by the next generation. :-(
>
> Oh well, I guess that's the way it goes!

I can visit with family any day of the year, and like I said, I
enjoyed each and
every one of them, but the turkey, the gravy, and the stuffing (which
I would not
have partaken in anyway because of carbs) were just wrong. Perhaps
next year
you should make the meal at your father's house. Hey, how is he
doing? Is he
still really active? As good of friends as we've been over the years,
I never got to
know him, in spite of the fact that I've always thought that he was a
neat guy,
purely based on your words.

The real bummer about TG was a misunderstanding about a medical
issue. One of
Betsy's doctors told her not to use her sumatriptan because she didn't
realize that
it was the type that did not include naproxen--which is
contraindicated before
surgery--so she lay at home suffering with a migraine when she could
have had the flawed
turkey with loved ones.

We talked about *The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act*, but
I did not have a copy of it.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-11...111publ148.htm

Almost every time I want to know something, there is Wikipedia. They
are asking for $ again,
and as soon as I send this I'm going to give them another $5. It
tends to be the case that the
most reliable sources for accurate information on the airwaves or
internet are those that appeal
for contributions, rather than those that rely on adverts, at least in
the USA; PBS, PRI and NPR
present conflicting views, and are consistently neutral.
>
> John Kuthe...

--Bryan

John Kuthe wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Nov 24, 5:01*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> > My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. *He went and bought a
> > fresh brined one from Whole Foods. *I don't remember the laundry
> > list of stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and
> > thyme, rosematy and CILANTRO were. *My son didn't say anything
> > until we were on the way home in the car, but he was very
> > disappointed, and asked if we could have Thanksgiving at our house
> > from now on because the turkey "tasted like crap." *I was also
> > disappointed because he cooked it upside down, but never flipped
> > it, so my favorite part, the crispy wing tips, didn't happen. *The
> > cheapest frozen turkey, seasoned and roasted more traditionally
> > would have been so much better than his pricey exercise in
> > creativity.
> >
> > I very much enjoyed the company, but I guess if I want the turkey
> > done right...
> >
> > Lynne Rossetto Kasper was on the radio this morning, with her suck
> > up to the audience attitude. *She was praising this idiot who was
> > making canned greens with freakin' Slim Jims from a vending machine.
> >
> > --Bryan
>
> I am so sorry Bryan, Johnny and Betsy! I know, I wish people would not
> mess with tradition. My father, and mostly my sister and I got REALLY
> good at making the whole spread of traditional Thanksgiving foods, and
> it seems now like we've been usurped by the next generation. :-(
>
> Oh well, I guess that's the way it goes!
>
> John Kuthe...

We keep ours pretty traditional here. A no-name 13lb bird at .49/lb
from Krogers was stuffed with a simple bagged pepperidge farm herb
stuffing (Don adds mushrooms, a little garlic, not much else)

Boil up potatoes and mash them then some green veggies and split acorn
squash usually. Gravy.

--

"Bryan" > wrote in message
...
> My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. He went and bought a fresh
> brined one from Whole Foods. I don't remember the laundry list of
> stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
> rosematy and CILANTRO were. My son didn't say anything until we were



We had a deep fried turkey that was seasoned with salt, pepper, and garlic.
It was wonderful. We also drank Kendall Jackson Riesling, which was nice.
All in all, wonderful food, wine, and people. Hope everyone had a great day.

Cheri

On Nov 24, 10:09*pm, "Cheri" > wrote:
....
>
> We had a deep fried turkey that was seasoned with salt, pepper, and garlic.
> It was wonderful. We also drank Kendall Jackson Riesling, which was nice.
> All in all, wonderful food, wine, and people. Hope everyone had a great day.
>
> Cheri

Problem is, no pan drippings with a deep fried turkey, thus no
traditional turkey gravy! As Byran said, deep fried turkey is good,
but not for a traditional Thanksgiving.

John Kuthe...

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 24, 10:09 pm, "Cheri" > wrote:
....
>
> We had a deep fried turkey that was seasoned with salt, pepper, and
> garlic.
> It was wonderful. We also drank Kendall Jackson Riesling, which was nice.
> All in all, wonderful food, wine, and people. Hope everyone had a great
> day.
>
> Cheri

Problem is, no pan drippings with a deep fried turkey, thus no
traditional turkey gravy! As Byran said, deep fried turkey is good,
but not for a traditional Thanksgiving.

John Kuthe...

====

Wasn't really a problem at all since I made a batch of turkey legs the day
before and made tons of gravy to take to the dinner. It was all wonderful,
especially the "traditional turkey."

Cheri

"Bryan" wrote
>
> My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. He went and bought a fresh
> brined one from Whole Foods.

A brined turkey is not a fresh turkey... even if you brine it yourself
you've negated it being a fresh turkey. It's near impossible to find a
turkey nowadays that hasn't been injected with brine, too bad.

> I don't remember the laundry list of
> stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
> rosematy and CILANTRO were. My son didn't say anything until we were

There's no accounting for taste... cilantro doesn't belong on turkey,
and there's always someone in the crowd (me) who can't eat it because
to them it tastes like soap. After cleaning/washing my turkey I place
it in the fridge to drain/dry for an hour. Then I bathe it inside and
out with the juice of a large fresh lemon and back into the fridge to
macerate, leave the lemon halves inside the cavity to roast. I season
with salt fresh ground black n' white pepper, granulated garlic, a bit
of celery salt, Penzeys poultry seasoning, rub well inside and out
with olive oil, place on a rack and sprinkle with paprika. I don't
stuff my bird, stuffing sucks the moisture from the meat and requires
a much longer cooking time... guarantees a dry turkey... the stuffing
may taste better but the turkey is ruined. Penzeys poultry seasoning
contains: sage, white pepper, red and green bell peppers, lemon peel,
savory, rosemary, dill, allspice, thyme, marjoram and ginger. Some
folks don't like to touch raw meat but I love massaging a turkey, if I
could only find a woman with such plump firm breasts I'd season her
24/7!

Brooklyn1 wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> "Bryan" wrote
> >
> > My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. He went and bought a
> > fresh brined one from Whole Foods.
>
> A brined turkey is not a fresh turkey... even if you brine it yourself
> you've negated it being a fresh turkey. It's near impossible to find a
> turkey nowadays that hasn't been injected with brine, too bad.
>
> > I don't remember the laundry list of
> > stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
> > rosematy and CILANTRO were. My son didn't say anything until we
> > were
>
> There's no accounting for taste... cilantro doesn't belong on turkey,
> and there's always someone in the crowd (me) who can't eat it because
> to them it tastes like soap. After cleaning/washing my turkey I place
> it in the fridge to drain/dry for an hour. Then I bathe it inside and
> out with the juice of a large fresh lemon and back into the fridge to
> macerate, leave the lemon halves inside the cavity to roast. I season
> with salt fresh ground black n' white pepper, granulated garlic, a bit
> of celery salt, Penzeys poultry seasoning, rub well inside and out
> with olive oil, place on a rack and sprinkle with paprika. I don't
> stuff my bird, stuffing sucks the moisture from the meat and requires
> a much longer cooking time... guarantees a dry turkey... the stuffing
> may taste better but the turkey is ruined.

Actually Bryan, stuffed turkey is not dry unless you do it wrong or at
too high a temp.

--

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:12:56 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Brooklyn1 wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> "Bryan" wrote
>> >
>> > My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. He went and bought a
>> > fresh brined one from Whole Foods.
>>
>> A brined turkey is not a fresh turkey... even if you brine it yourself
>> you've negated it being a fresh turkey. It's near impossible to find a
>> turkey nowadays that hasn't been injected with brine, too bad.
>>
>> > I don't remember the laundry list of
>> > stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
>> > rosematy and CILANTRO were. My son didn't say anything until we
>> > were
>>
>> There's no accounting for taste... cilantro doesn't belong on turkey,
>> and there's always someone in the crowd (me) who can't eat it because
>> to them it tastes like soap. After cleaning/washing my turkey I place
>> it in the fridge to drain/dry for an hour. Then I bathe it inside and
>> out with the juice of a large fresh lemon and back into the fridge to
>> macerate, leave the lemon halves inside the cavity to roast. I season
>> with salt fresh ground black n' white pepper, granulated garlic, a bit
>> of celery salt, Penzeys poultry seasoning, rub well inside and out
>> with olive oil, place on a rack and sprinkle with paprika. I don't
>> stuff my bird, stuffing sucks the moisture from the meat and requires
>> a much longer cooking time... guarantees a dry turkey... the stuffing
>> may taste better but the turkey is ruined.
>
>Actually Bryan, stuffed turkey is not dry unless you do it wrong or at
>too high a temp.

I don't believe you've ever cooked a turkey, show me. And if you cook
like you misplace commas oy vey.

Pennyaline wrote:
> On 11/25/2011 12:12 PM, cshenk wrote:
>
>> Actually Bryan, stuffed turkey is not dry unless you do it wrong or
>> at too high a temp.
>
> Stuffed turkeys are almost always dry, because more oven time is
> required to get a cavity full of stuffing up to the correct
> temperature all the way through.

It's not dry if you cook it upside down for the first hour and a half. I
think that the size of the turkey is also an issue. I've found that the
14-16 lb range seems to yield the most meat in relation to frame, and cooks
in a resonable amount of time so that the extremities are not dessicated. If
I had a huge crowd to feed--and the oven space--I'd be inclined to cook two
smaller turkeys than one of those 24-lb behemoths.

This year, I cooked the turkey unstuffed: something I've never done on
Thanksgiving. I just put some onion, garlic, celery, and herbs in the
cavity. It did cook a lot faster, but I didn't notice any particular
difference in moisture in the final result.

What I *did* notice--too late, alas--was that none of the drippings had
browned on the roasting pan. No fond at all. This made for a lackluster
gravy, despite the fact that I had been simmering stock for it all day (made
with the neck and some frozen chicken trimmings, plus the usual vegetables
and herbs). I had a small container of strong brown stock left in the
freezer, and at the last minute thawed, reduced, and added that, which
helped. But still very disappointing.

On Nov 26, 7:34*am, "Janet" > wrote:
....
>
> What I *did* notice--too late, alas--was that none of the drippings had
> browned on the roasting pan. No fond at all. This made for a lackluster
> gravy, despite the fact that I had been simmering stock for it all day (made
> with the neck and some frozen chicken trimmings, plus the usual vegetables
> and herbs). I had a small container of strong brown stock left in the
> freezer, and at the last minute thawed, reduced, and added that, which
> helped. But still very disappointing.

I have one work for you about pan drippings for gravy: mirapiox!

:-)

John Kuthe...

On Nov 25, 1:12*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> Brooklyn1 wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bryan" wrote
>
> > > My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. *He went and bought a
> > > fresh brined one from Whole Foods.
>
> > A brined turkey is not a fresh turkey... even if you brine it yourself
> > you've negated it being a fresh turkey. It's near impossible to find a
> > turkey nowadays that hasn't been injected with brine, too bad.
>
> > > I don't remember the laundry list of
> > > stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
> > > rosematy and CILANTRO were. *My son didn't say anything until we
> > > were
>
> > There's no accounting for taste... cilantro doesn't belong on turkey,
> > and there's always someone in the crowd (me) who can't eat it because
> > to them it tastes like soap. *After cleaning/washing my turkey I place
> > it in the fridge to drain/dry for an hour. *Then I bathe it inside and
> > out with the juice of a large fresh lemon and back into the fridge to
> > macerate, leave the lemon halves inside the cavity to roast. *I season
> > with salt fresh ground black n' white pepper, granulated garlic, a bit
> > of celery salt, Penzeys poultry seasoning, rub well inside and out
> > with olive oil, place on a rack and sprinkle with paprika. *I don't
> > stuff my bird, stuffing sucks the moisture from the meat and requires
> > a much longer cooking time... guarantees a dry turkey... the stuffing
> > may taste better but the turkey is ruined.
>
> Actually Bryan, stuffed turkey is not dry unless you do it wrong or at
> too high a temp.
>
It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. I'm a
believer in stuffing them. If it's not made in the bird, one can call
it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.

--Bryan

On Nov 26, 7:50*am, Bryan > wrote:
....
>
> It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. *I'm a
> believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
>
> --Bryan

I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!

If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!

;-)

John Kuthe...

On Nov 26, 8:08*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Nov 26, 7:50*am, Bryan > wrote:
> ...
>
>
>
> > It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. *I'm a
> > believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> > it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
>
> > --Bryan
>
> I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!
>
> If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!
>
I don't know when people started making that pan *dressing*,
but what a waste of calories/carbs/room in ones stomach.
>
> John Kuthe...

--Bryan

It wasnt as bad as ours :-) My mom decided to use The NU-WAVE OVEN to
cook her turkey...So the bird is on the platter in the kitchen, and we
at the table already have our mashed potatoes and green bean casserole
on our plates. The bird looks good, has a good color, the skin though
sort of looked shrink-wrapped? Reminded me of those shrunken heads in
museums.

No juices in the pan for gravy was our first clue. As I scraped out the
stuffing from the turkey the apples were still crunchy-second clue. We
tried to break off a leg but the skin was unyielding in its
shrunkenness.

Now the knife is in my 80yr old mother's hand. She cuts the leg at the
joint and out pours copious amounts of pink juice. She breaks the leg
back to expose the cartilage, and pink-red flesh appears.

I ask her how long she cooked it-she replied 2 and a quarter hours. By
now she is viciously stabbing the turkey and even got one jab into my
hand LOL.

So we break/cut off each leg and each wing. We microwave those and the
stuffing. I was able to fillet a half inch of breast meat/skin from the
top.

(Mom makes a normally divine stuffing with bread apples raisins and
cinnamon.)

The rest of the turkey carcass roasted in the oven that afternoon.
Result at supper-dry turkey sandwiches lol.

I asked her again how long she cooked it in the Nu-Wave oven-this time
she replied "closer to 3 hrs."

So I read the Nu-wave booklet. It says for 8-10lb bird, cook on high
15min per pound. Mom's turkey was 11-12lbs. Mom is very hyperactive and
has no patience so usually when she estimates time I figure less time
than she says. So 12lbs bird should be cooked a full 3hrs...

The next day I bought her a jar of turkey gravy :-) She does a gravy
stuffing potatoes green been turkey casserole with leftovers. I went
home. We survived without food poisoning :-)

Mom informed me that I would never be able to do all that's required to
serve a Thanksgiving meal. I have been asking to do so for 30yrs! Hyper
and controlling LOL

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:34:27 -0500, "Janet" >
wrote:

>Pennyaline wrote:
>> On 11/25/2011 12:12 PM, cshenk wrote:
>>
>>> Actually Bryan, stuffed turkey is not dry unless you do it wrong or
>>> at too high a temp.
>>
>> Stuffed turkeys are almost always dry, because more oven time is
>> required to get a cavity full of stuffing up to the correct
>> temperature all the way through.
>
>It's not dry if you cook it upside down for the first hour and a half. I
>think that the size of the turkey is also an issue. I've found that the
>14-16 lb range seems to yield the most meat in relation to frame, and cooks
>in a resonable amount of time so that the extremities are not dessicated. If
>I had a huge crowd to feed--and the oven space--I'd be inclined to cook two
>smaller turkeys than one of those 24-lb behemoths.
>
>This year, I cooked the turkey unstuffed: something I've never done on
>Thanksgiving. I just put some onion, garlic, celery, and herbs in the
>cavity. It did cook a lot faster, but I didn't notice any particular
>difference in moisture in the final result.
>
>What I *did* notice--too late, alas--was that none of the drippings had
>browned on the roasting pan. No fond at all. This made for a lackluster
>gravy, despite the fact that I had been simmering stock for it all day (made
>with the neck and some frozen chicken trimmings, plus the usual vegetables
>and herbs). I had a small container of strong brown stock left in the
>freezer, and at the last minute thawed, reduced, and added that, which
>helped. But still very disappointing.

If you had no pan drippings you did something weird... my pan
contained enough fond/drippings to make 2 quarts of rich gravy only I
don't do gravy so I scraped it all onto a few slices of cheap used
bread in my yard for the critters.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:50:01 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

>On Nov 25, 1:12*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
>> Brooklyn1 wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Bryan" wrote
>>
>> > > My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. *He went and bought a
>> > > fresh brined one from Whole Foods.
>>
>> > A brined turkey is not a fresh turkey... even if you brine it yourself
>> > you've negated it being a fresh turkey. It's near impossible to find a
>> > turkey nowadays that hasn't been injected with brine, too bad.
>>
>> > > I don't remember the laundry list of
>> > > stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and thyme,
>> > > rosematy and CILANTRO were. *My son didn't say anything until we
>> > > were
>>
>> > There's no accounting for taste... cilantro doesn't belong on turkey,
>> > and there's always someone in the crowd (me) who can't eat it because
>> > to them it tastes like soap. *After cleaning/washing my turkey I place
>> > it in the fridge to drain/dry for an hour. *Then I bathe it inside and
>> > out with the juice of a large fresh lemon and back into the fridge to
>> > macerate, leave the lemon halves inside the cavity to roast. *I season
>> > with salt fresh ground black n' white pepper, granulated garlic, a bit
>> > of celery salt, Penzeys poultry seasoning, rub well inside and out
>> > with olive oil, place on a rack and sprinkle with paprika. *I don't
>> > stuff my bird, stuffing sucks the moisture from the meat and requires
>> > a much longer cooking time... guarantees a dry turkey... the stuffing
>> > may taste better but the turkey is ruined.
>>
>> Actually Bryan, stuffed turkey is not dry unless you do it wrong or at
>> too high a temp.
>>
>It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. I'm a
>believer in stuffing them. If it's not made in the bird, one can call
>it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.

Folks who are educated in culinary nomenclature call it "dressing"...
only illiterate trailer trash call it "stuffing". Bread pudding is
different, it's made with egg custard, that's why it's called pudding.

Did yoose ever wonder why restaurants don't stuff their birds... a lot
more labor, takes a lot longer to roast, and turkey turns out dry due
to the much longer cooking time and that the bready concoction sucks
the moisture from the meat. The better eateries rotisserie their
turkeys... the little stupidmarket deli in my town will rotisserie
your bird, they have one of those large upright carousel rotisseries
that can cook like fifty chickens at once along with several large
beef roasts. I would have rotisseried my turkey on my Weber only I
didn't have the time to stand guard nor did I feel like it... the last
time I decided to rotisserie a pork loin I went inside for a half hour
to mingle with my guests and the roast went out of balance and
rotisserie stopped; cremated pork... don't ever walk away from a
grill. A rotisseried turkey is a zillion times better than deep
fried... I think deep fried turkey is awful, on par with a deep fried
suckling pig.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:44:49 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
> wrote:

> On Nov 26, 7:34*am, "Janet" > wrote:
> ...
> >
> > What I *did* notice--too late, alas--was that none of the drippings had
> > browned on the roasting pan. No fond at all. This made for a lackluster
> > gravy, despite the fact that I had been simmering stock for it all day (made
> > with the neck and some frozen chicken trimmings, plus the usual vegetables
> > and herbs). I had a small container of strong brown stock left in the
> > freezer, and at the last minute thawed, reduced, and added that, which
> > helped. But still very disappointing.
>
> I have one work for you about pan drippings for gravy: mirapiox!
>
I'm pretty sure she took care of that in her turkey stock. She just
wanted some fond.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:50:01 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> I'm a
> believer in stuffing them. If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.

There's never enough, so I stuff the bird and make more in a pan.
Then I like to blend the stuffing and dressing together... so
everything is yummy.

I forgot to turn my oven down from 350°, so my turkey roasted faster
than I'd planned. One thing I noticed was that although the white
meat registered as cooked, the pop out thingie didn't pop out until it
had been resting for a while. No wonder people have dry meat. The
only thing I'm going to do differently next year is not to cook it
with the legs together, that way the dark meat will roast at the same
time as the white meat. Otherwise I was happy with my bird. It was
not injected and I didn't brine it - wet or dry. I put softened,
salted butter mixed with the same chopped fresh herbs that I'd put in
the dressing (parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme) under the skin and
since my hands were all buttery, I wiped them on the outside too. So
the bird was very well buttered all over.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 06:08:35 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
> wrote:

> On Nov 26, 7:50*am, Bryan > wrote:
> ...
> >
> > It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. *I'm a
> > believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> > it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
> >
> > --Bryan
>
> I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!
>
> If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!
>
That makes the most sense; but they're interchangeable terms for me if
I'm talking about what goes into the bird.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 06:51:51 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> On Nov 26, 8:08*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> > On Nov 26, 7:50*am, Bryan > wrote:
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> > > It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. *I'm a
> > > believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> > > it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
> >
> > > --Bryan
> >
> > I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!
> >
> > If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!
> >
> I don't know when people started making that pan *dressing*,
> but what a waste of calories/carbs/room in ones stomach.
> >
Don't get me started about you getting started.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Nov 26, 12:56*pm, sf > wrote:
>
> the pop out thingie didn't pop out until it
> had been resting for a while. *No wonder people have dry meat. *The
> only thing I'm going to do differently next year is not to cook it
> with the legs together

It'll look like a cheap trollop if you do that. : )

--Bryan

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:18:16 -0600, (z z) wrote:

> Mom informed me that I would never be able to do all that's required to
> serve a Thanksgiving meal. I have been asking to do so for 30yrs! Hyper
> and controlling LOL

Oh, lord! And I can hardly wait to hand over the reins. I gave DD
and DIL assignments this year which they did beautifully. DD told me
they will do more next time but she wants me to cook the turkey and
make the dressing since everyone will still be gathering at my house.
I can deal with that.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Nov 26, 12:58*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 06:51:51 -0800 (PST), Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Nov 26, 8:08*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> > > On Nov 26, 7:50*am, Bryan > wrote:
> > > ...
>
> > > > It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. *I'm a
> > > > believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> > > > it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
>
> > > > --Bryan
>
> > > I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!
>
> > > If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!
>
> > I don't know when people started making that pan *dressing*,
> > but what a waste of calories/carbs/room in ones stomach.
>
> Don't get me started about you getting started.
>
But you admit that it's not as good (not "yummy"), and you only
use it as an extender.

--Bryan

On Nov 26, 8:18*am, (z z) wrote:
> It wasnt as bad as ours :-) My mom decided to use The NU-WAVE OVEN to
> cook her turkey...So the bird is on the platter in the kitchen, and we
> at the table already have our mashed potatoes and green bean casserole
> on our plates. The bird looks good, has a good color, the skin though
> sort of looked shrink-wrapped? Reminded me of those shrunken heads in
> museums.
>
> No juices in the pan for gravy was our first clue. As I scraped out the
> stuffing from the turkey the apples were still crunchy-second clue. We
> tried to break off a leg but the skin was unyielding in its
> shrunkenness.
>
> Now the knife is in my 80yr old mother's hand. She cuts the leg at the
> joint and out pours copious amounts of pink juice. She breaks the leg
> back to expose the cartilage, and pink-red flesh appears.
>
> I ask her how long she cooked it-she replied 2 and a quarter hours. By
> now she is viciously stabbing the turkey and even got one jab into my
> hand LOL.
>
> So we break/cut off each leg and each wing. We microwave those and the
> stuffing. I was able to fillet a half inch of breast meat/skin from the
> top.
>
> (Mom makes a normally divine stuffing with bread apples raisins and
> cinnamon.)
>
> The rest of the turkey carcass roasted in the oven that afternoon.
> Result at supper-dry turkey sandwiches lol.
>
> I asked her again how long she cooked it in the Nu-Wave oven-this time
> she replied "closer to 3 hrs."
>
> So I read the Nu-wave booklet. It says for 8-10lb bird, cook on high
> 15min per pound. Mom's turkey was 11-12lbs. Mom is very hyperactive and
> has no patience so usually when she estimates time I figure less time
> than she says. So 12lbs bird should be cooked a full 3hrs...
>
> The next day I bought her a jar of turkey gravy :-) She does a gravy
> stuffing potatoes green been turkey casserole with leftovers. I went
> home. We survived without food poisoning :-)
>
> Mom informed me that I would never be able to do all that's required to
> serve a Thanksgiving meal. I have been asking to do so for 30yrs! Hyper
> and controlling LOL

Just tell her that you will need her help, of course! She may be less
reluctant to pass it on to you, but at her age, she should just be
relaxing and enjoying the day!

On Nov 26, 10:56*am, sf > wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:50:01 -0800 (PST), Bryan
>
> > wrote:
> > I'm a
> > believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> > it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
>
> There's never enough, so I stuff the bird and make more in a pan.
> Then I like to blend the stuffing and dressing together... so
> everything is yummy.
>
> I forgot to turn my oven down from 350°, so my turkey roasted faster
> than I'd planned. *One thing I noticed was that although the white
> meat registered as cooked, the pop out thingie didn't pop out until it
> had been resting for a while. *No wonder people have dry meat. *The
> only thing I'm going to do differently next year is not to cook it
> with the legs together, that way the dark meat will roast at the same
> time as the white meat. *Otherwise I was happy with my bird. *It was
> not injected and I didn't brine it - wet or dry. *I put softened,
> salted butter mixed with the same chopped fresh herbs that I'd put in
> the dressing (parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme) under the skin and
> since my hands were all buttery, I wiped them on the outside too. *So
> the bird was very well buttered all over.
>
> --
> Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

NEVER trust the pop up POS they put in- you need to use your own
reliable thermometer.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:05:16 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> On Nov 26, 12:58*pm, sf > wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 06:51:51 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > On Nov 26, 8:08*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 26, 7:50*am, Bryan > wrote:
> > > > ...
> >
> > > > > It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. *I'm a
> > > > > believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> > > > > it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
> >
> > > > > --Bryan
> >
> > > > I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!
> >
> > > > If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!
> >
> > > I don't know when people started making that pan *dressing*,
> > > but what a waste of calories/carbs/room in ones stomach.
> >
> > Don't get me started about you getting started.
> >
> But you admit that it's not as good (not "yummy"), and you only
> use it as an extender.
>
Yes. However, reductions are a completely different ball game and not
considered a home style gravy by me. I do make a rich stock which
might be considered a reduction by you, but (IMO) reductions don't
pour the same or have the same mouth feel as home style gravy.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Nov 26, 9:08*am, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Nov 26, 7:50*am, Bryan > wrote:
> ...
>
>
>
> > It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. *I'm a
> > believer in stuffing them. *If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> > it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
>
> > --Bryan
>
> I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!
>
> If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!
>
> ;-)
>
> John Kuthe...

How did the nursing home cafeteria do it this year? Did you get to
partake, or did you run around stealing the gomers' stuff while they
were eating? Oh well! That's why McDonald's is open on Thanksgiving.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:01:04 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

> On Nov 26, 12:56*pm, sf > wrote:
> >
> > the pop out thingie didn't pop out until it
> > had been resting for a while. *No wonder people have dry meat. *The
> > only thing I'm going to do differently next year is not to cook it
> > with the legs together
>
> It'll look like a cheap trollop if you do that. : )
>
I *know*! That's why I didn't do it this year. We actually debated
it. I said it's not going to be carved at the table anyway so who
cares and he said everyone would be watching anyway - so I let it
slide this year and the dark meat didn't cook as well as the white
did. Next year, I won't even mention an option and just put it in
untrussed. He's not in the kitchen directing traffic when I put the
bird in the oven - so I can do as I please and he can cut up the
results.

Oh, by the way... do you give your bird a vampish look by folding the
wings behind the neck/back? I do, so splayed legs will just continue
the theme.
<http://www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/cooking-tips-techniques/preparation/prepare-turkey-00000000002274/index.html>


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

Bryan wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On Nov 25, 1:12*pm, "cshenk" > wrote:
> > Brooklyn1 wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Bryan" wrote
> >
> > > > My sister-in-law's husband made a turkey. *He went and bought a
> > > > fresh brined one from Whole Foods.
> >
> > > A brined turkey is not a fresh turkey... even if you brine it
> > > yourself you've negated it being a fresh turkey. It's near
> > > impossible to find a turkey nowadays that hasn't been injected
> > > with brine, too bad.
> >
> > > > I don't remember the laundry list of
> > > > stuff he seasoned it with, but sage was not on the list and
> > > > thyme, rosematy and CILANTRO were. *My son didn't say anything
> > > > until we were
> >
> > > There's no accounting for taste... cilantro doesn't belong on
> > > turkey, and there's always someone in the crowd (me) who can't
> > > eat it because to them it tastes like soap. *After
> > > cleaning/washing my turkey I place it in the fridge to drain/dry
> > > for an hour. *Then I bathe it inside and out with the juice of a
> > > large fresh lemon and back into the fridge to macerate, leave the
> > > lemon halves inside the cavity to roast. *I season with salt
> > > fresh ground black n' white pepper, granulated garlic, a bit of
> > > celery salt, Penzeys poultry seasoning, rub well inside and out
> > > with olive oil, place on a rack and sprinkle with paprika. *I
> > > don't stuff my bird, stuffing sucks the moisture from the meat
> > > and requires a much longer cooking time... guarantees a dry
> > > turkey... the stuffing may taste better but the turkey is ruined.
> >
> > Actually Bryan, stuffed turkey is not dry unless you do it wrong or
> > at too high a temp.
> >
> It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. I'm a
> believer in stuffing them. If it's not made in the bird, one can call
> it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
>
> --Bryan

Sorry Bryan, so many have incompliant newsgroup software it can happen.

I learned long ago to cook a stuffed turkey at a 'low and slow' method.
It may be others are trying 400F and above so getting a dry one.

Currently we are in leftover mode and I'm making various cassaroles.
Nothing particularily gustatorial about them. Simple stuff.

I made up gravy from the drippings yesterday and today I am using that
with other items (potatoes, turkey, onions, broccoli, sweet end daikon,
shiitake, celery, out of carrots or would add them) topped with mashed
potatoes to make a shepards pie. It's nothing to run screaming about
the town over but it is a simple dish that is tastey.

--

On 11/26/2011 1:57 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 06:08:35 -0800 (PST), John Kuthe
> > wrote:
>
>> On Nov 26, 7:50 am, > wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> It was Sheldon, not I who wrote the dry turkey comment. I'm a
>>> believer in stuffing them. If it's not made in the bird, one can call
>>> it savory bread pudding, but it isn't stuffing.
>>>
>>> --Bryan
>>
>> I figure if it's stuffed into the bird, it's stuffing!
>>
>> If it's made in a pan and not in the bird, it's dressing!
>>
> That makes the most sense; but they're interchangeable terms for me if
> I'm talking about what goes into the bird.
>
Seems reasonable enough to me but I can't get excited about the definition.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On Nov 26, 3:18*pm, sf > wrote:
>
>
> Oh, by the way... do you give your bird a vampish look by folding the
> wings behind the neck/back? *I do, so splayed legs will just continue
> the theme.
> <http://www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/cooking-tips-techniques/prepar...>
>
My favorite part of turkeys are the wing tips, followed by the
paddles. I want those brown and crispy on the outside. No one else I
know prizes those parts, so I end up getting both tips, and at least
one paddle every time. This year, those parts were soggy and infused
with inappropriate seasonings.

--Bryan

If you like wing tips I bet you like chicken's feet also? Our grocery
store sells them for the asian crowd, I think, and the raw chicken's
feet are fascinating to look at-the toenails are prettier than anything
the girls glue on their fingernails! (we throw away the wing tips.) Hey,
you don't suppose...(nail salons) LOL

On Nov 26, 6:45*pm, (z z) wrote:
> If you like wing tips I bet you like chicken's feet also? Our grocery
> store sells them for the asian crowd, I think, and the raw chicken's
> feet are fascinating to look at-the toenails are prettier than anything
> the girls glue on their fingernails! (we throw away the wing tips.) Hey,
> you don't suppose...(nail salons) LOL

I had the same idea, but I tried feet. (see:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1552229...7619119239617/ )
It was not a success.

--Bryan