Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.

http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...our-hands-4659

On Jan 1, 4:31*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> Stunning article from Australia. * Learned a lot.
>
> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...

I'm curious how they classified animals as "sentient" or not
sentient. Extreme animal "rights" nutcases say that humans don't have
the right to judge which animals are more worthy than other animals,
but their defective, vegan brains don't know what to say when you
point out that to produce their freakin' tofu, thousands of earthworms
get chopped in half by plows, whereas a grass fed cow can produce huge
amounts of cheese with no killing. A grass fed steer can provide huge
amounts of meat with only one killing. If those idiots ever have a
demonstration locally that I find out about, I'm going to make an
effort to be there with a sign that says something like:
VEGANS ARE
EARTHWORM
MURDERERS.

When we lived in Tampa, they picketed the U. of South Florida Med.
School, and I went and bought a raw steak, and ate it raw across the
street from them while yelling insults at their B-12 deficient asses.
I was scared that one of those pallid hippies was going to come across
the street and kick my ass...NOT.

--Bryan

Bryan wrote:
> On Jan 1, 4:31 pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>>
>> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
>
> I'm curious how they classified animals as "sentient" or not
> sentient. Extreme animal "rights" nutcases say that humans don't have
> the right to judge which animals are more worthy than other animals,
> but their defective, vegan brains don't know what to say when you
> point out that to produce their freakin' tofu, thousands of earthworms
> get chopped in half by plows, whereas a grass fed cow can produce huge
> amounts of cheese with no killing. A grass fed steer can provide huge
> amounts of meat with only one killing. If those idiots ever have a
> demonstration locally that I find out about, I'm going to make an
> effort to be there with a sign that says something like:
> VEGANS ARE
> EARTHWORM
> MURDERERS.
>
> When we lived in Tampa, they picketed the U. of South Florida Med.
> School, and I went and bought a raw steak, and ate it raw across the
> street from them while yelling insults at their B-12 deficient asses.
> I was scared that one of those pallid hippies was going to come across
> the street and kick my ass...NOT.

I was a vegetarian for many years. Yes, I do love animals. And no I do not
think any one animal is better in any way than another animal. I think they
are all here for a reason if to some of us it doesn't seem like a good
reason. But mainly I was a vegetarian because I realized that my stomach
felt a lot better if I didn't eat meat. I do eat some meat now because if I
don't eat it I become anemic. However I now know there is a medical reason
why I don't feel well if I eat meat and I am going to find out at the end of
this month is there is another reason why I become anemic. My dad and my
brother both have a blood disorder that is inherited.

I do know that animals suffer when we kill them for food. But thanks to my
high school biology class, I also know that plants suffer when we cut them
or pick them or burn them or any of the other things we might do to harvest
them or even make the fields ready to grow another crop.

Vegans do not have to be B-12 deficient. I was also a vegan for a brief
period of time. That to me is the best tasting food in the world! But my
stomach couldn't handle it. All vegans have to do is eat nutritional yeast.
And yes I know it is not all vegan. But there is plenty that is.

On Jan 1, 8:28*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>
> I do know that animals suffer when we kill them for food. *But thanks to my
> high school biology class, I also know that plants suffer when we cut them
> or pick them or burn them or any of the other things we might do to harvest
> them or even make the fields ready to grow another crop.

Hahahahahaha! Plants suffering! You're a nutcase. Maybe you had a
kooky high school biology teacher.

--Bryan

On Jan 1, 9:18*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Jan 1, 8:28*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I do know that animals suffer when we kill them for food. *But thanks to my
> > high school biology class, I also know that plants suffer when we cut them
> > or pick them or burn them or any of the other things we might do to harvest
> > them or even make the fields ready to grow another crop.
>
> Hahahahahaha! *Plants suffering! *You're a nutcase. *Maybe you had a
> kooky high school biology teacher.
>
> --Bryan

Well, plants can have a reaction to being cut, picked, etc. I can't
see how anyone could call that suffering though.

And yes Julie, animals suffer when killed for food. Which is why I
always give thanks at Thanksgiving dinner to the turkey that, albeit
unwillingly, gave it's life that we might have this sumptuous feast!
And then I feast! MMMMMMM!

John Kuthe...

Bryan wrote:
> On Jan 1, 8:28 pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>>
>>
>> I do know that animals suffer when we kill them for food. But thanks
>> to my high school biology class, I also know that plants suffer when
>> we cut them or pick them or burn them or any of the other things we
>> might do to harvest them or even make the fields ready to grow
>> another crop.
>
> Hahahahahaha! Plants suffering! You're a nutcase. Maybe you had a
> kooky high school biology teacher.

He hooked up a meter to them to register their feelings.

On Jan 1, 9:46*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
> > On Jan 1, 8:28 pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
> >> I do know that animals suffer when we kill them for food. But thanks
> >> to my high school biology class, I also know that plants suffer when
> >> we cut them or pick them or burn them or any of the other things we
> >> might do to harvest them or even make the fields ready to grow
> >> another crop.
>
> > Hahahahahaha! *Plants suffering! *You're a nutcase. *Maybe you had a
> > kooky high school biology teacher.
>
> He hooked up a meter to them to register their feelings.

A "feeling" meter, right? What is the SI unit of suffering?

I'm an electrical engineer as well as a registered nurse, Julie. Talk
to me!

John Kuthe...

On 1/1/2012 5:18 PM, Bryan wrote:
> On Jan 1, 8:28 pm, "Julie > wrote:
>>
>>
>> I do know that animals suffer when we kill them for food. But thanks to my
>> high school biology class, I also know that plants suffer when we cut them
>> or pick them or burn them or any of the other things we might do to harvest
>> them or even make the fields ready to grow another crop.
>
> Hahahahahaha! Plants suffering! You're a nutcase. Maybe you had as
> kooky high school biology teacher.
>
> --Bryan

The idea that plants felt pain and responded to soothing words and even
kind thoughts was a common notion in the late 60s and 70s. That's what
drugs will do for you...

On Jan 2, 12:40*am, dsi1 > wrote:
> On 1/1/2012 5:18 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
> > On Jan 1, 8:28 pm, "Julie > *wrote:
>
> >> I do know that animals suffer when we kill them for food. *But thanks to my
> >> high school biology class, I also know that plants suffer when we cut them
> >> or pick them or burn them or any of the other things we might do to harvest
> >> them or even make the fields ready to grow another crop.
>
> > Hahahahahaha! *Plants suffering! *You're a nutcase. *Maybe you had as
> > kooky high school biology teacher.
>
> > --Bryan
>
> The idea that plants felt pain and responded to soothing words and even
> kind thoughts was a common notion in the late 60s and 70s. That's what
> drugs will do for you...

I believe Mythbusters had this on their show, with 4 or so different
greenhouses. They were all the same temp, etc. One had classical
music, another heavy metal, but can't remember the other 2- I'm sure
one was neutral to be used as a control. I seem to recall the heavy
metal one did best...

Julie wrote:

> I was also a vegan for a brief period of time. That to me is the best
> tasting food in the world!

There are many reasons people become vegan, but never before have I seen
anyone claiming that vegan food tastes good.

Bob

On 01/04/2012 08:21 PM, Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Julie wrote:
>
>> I was also a vegan for a brief period of time. That to me is the best
>> tasting food in the world!
>
> There are many reasons people become vegan, but never before have I seen
> anyone claiming that vegan food tastes good.

And I repeat:

fruit salad
spaghetti marinara
sorbet
baked potatoes
sourdough bread
fresh summer watermelon
popcorn
gazpacho
margaritas
a ripe tomato drizzled with olive oil and topped with basil and roasted
garlic

And for good measu

ripe raspberries
tomato soup
bean burritos
oatmeal with maple syrup and raisins
sunflower seeds
green salad
roasted asparagus
corn flakes
orange juice
mushroom barley soup
edamame
boiled peanuts
lemonade
hummus and pita chips
tortilla chips
salsa
guacamole
kappa maki
ginger ale
raisin bran
granola
lentil soup
roasted pumpkin
bruschetta
kimchee
baba ganouj
pasta aglio e olio
peanut butter and celery or bananas
for that matter, bananas and mangos and guavas and a zillion other fruits
artichokes

Are you telling me there's absolutely nothing on that list that you
don't find so disgusting you'd rather die than eat it?

Give me a break.

Serene

--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

On Jan 4, 9:21*pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:
>
> Are you telling me there's absolutely nothing on that list that you
> don't find so disgusting you'd rather die than eat it?
>


For a few days, I could eat *some* of those foods, but would I enjoy
them? Not very much, or at least not very often.

The best thing on that list was ripe raspberries, and I only eat those
a couple times during the season.

Bean burrito? I could eat it, but I would never choose it unless there
was nothing better on the list. I happen to be eating a bean and
cheese burrito right now. I also like BBQ beef burritos. I also like
sour cream. Isn't dairy off the list for vegan food? That wipes out a
lot of choices.

I can survive on vegan food, but it would be a chore to eat it, and I
would only do so because I had no choice.

Most people who eat a vegan diet do so because they choose to eat a
vegan diet. That is their goal. They don't set out to eat a great meal
and happen to choose all vegan foods for 3 meals a day, ever day for
years on end without specifically choosing that type of diet.

I don't want to give up meat or dairy. They are the best parts of my
meals, so giving them up means eating only the worst parts of the
meal, and skipping the best.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:21:20 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>Julie wrote:
>
>> I was also a vegan for a brief period of time. That to me is the best
>> tasting food in the world!
>
>There are many reasons people become vegan, but never before have I seen
>anyone claiming that vegan food tastes good.
>

From the vegan recipe books I've browsed through, I'd say they
overcompensate for lack of familiar tastes & textures with bolder
spice combinations.

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:21:20 -0800, "Bob Terwilliger"
> > wrote:
>
>>Julie wrote:
>>
>>> I was also a vegan for a brief period of time. That to me is the best
>>> tasting food in the world!
>>
>>There are many reasons people become vegan, but never before have I seen
>>anyone claiming that vegan food tastes good.
>>
>
> From the vegan recipe books I've browsed through, I'd say they
> overcompensate for lack of familiar tastes & textures with bolder
> spice combinations.
>
> Jim

Spice combinations are great. IMHO, vegan food isn't.

Jill

In article m>,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Julie wrote:
>
> > I was also a vegan for a brief period of time. That to me is the best
> > tasting food in the world!
>
> There are many reasons people become vegan, but never before have I seen
> anyone claiming that vegan food tastes good.

I have. I've always suspected that they were mostly trying to convince
themselves, though!

Still, Julie has a lot of food problems. When some foods make you sick,
and others cause medical problems, then that tends to alter what seems
good to you.

My mother never ate pies and cakes. She was diabetic and they made her
feel bad. Her idea of a perfect desert was a plate of boiled potatoes
with her special sauce (mayonnaise, mustard, pickles and onions) with
some pickled herring on the side!

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Julie wrote:
>
>> I was also a vegan for a brief period of time. That to me is the best
>> tasting food in the world!
>
> There are many reasons people become vegan, but never before have I seen
> anyone claiming that vegan food tastes good.

Vegan food easily tastes good. The reality comes in when it's compared
against what it really is. Regular eating is everything that vegan
eating is plus additional animal products. Since animal products often
taste good to many people it's easy for regular eating to taste better
than vegan eating. But because regular eating is the super-set and
vegan eating is the sub-set it is literally impossible for vegan food to
taste better than non-vegan food. The better tasting vegan dishes are
all included in non-vegan food. Every single one of them.

Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> Vegan food easily tastes good. The reality comes in when it's compared
> against what it really is. Regular eating is everything that vegan
> eating is plus additional animal products. Since animal products often
> taste good to many people it's easy for regular eating to taste better
> than vegan eating. But because regular eating is the super-set and
> vegan eating is the sub-set it is literally impossible for vegan food to
> taste better than non-vegan food. The better tasting vegan dishes are
> all included in non-vegan food. Every single one of them.

WHAT? ;-D

In article >,
Doug Freyburger > wrote:

> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> > Julie wrote:
> >
> >> I was also a vegan for a brief period of time. That to me is the best
> >> tasting food in the world!
> >
> > There are many reasons people become vegan, but never before have I seen
> > anyone claiming that vegan food tastes good.
>
> Vegan food easily tastes good. The reality comes in when it's compared
> against what it really is. Regular eating is everything that vegan
> eating is plus additional animal products. Since animal products often
> taste good to many people it's easy for regular eating to taste better
> than vegan eating. But because regular eating is the super-set and
> vegan eating is the sub-set it is literally impossible for vegan food to
> taste better than non-vegan food. The better tasting vegan dishes are
> all included in non-vegan food. Every single one of them.

I understand what you are saying, Doug. However, it's also possible to
consider the constraints as being time, energy and money; rather than
just the sheer number of recipes and food items available.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Julie wrote:

> I do not think any one animal is better in any way than another animal.

I do.

Bob

> VEGANS ARE
> EARTHWORM
> MURDERERS.
>


Don't forget the rodents. Once the plow goes through, the vultures
start showing up for all the squished rodents.

Oh, and just driving around kills bugs. Just look at the windshield.
It is impossible not to kill things even by accident.

On Jan 1, 12:31*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> Stunning article from Australia. * Learned a lot.
>
> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...

It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.

dsi1 wrote:
> On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>>
>> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
>
> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
> will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.

I was just watching a show on manna and they now think it is a form of
algae. They were growing it and they said it can support life. Imagine
that as your only food source. No thanks!

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> dsi1 wrote:
> > On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> >> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
> >>
> >> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
> >
> > It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
> > Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
> > will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
> > taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.
>
> I was just watching a show on manna and they now think it is a form of
> algae. They were growing it and they said it can support life. Imagine
> that as your only food source. No thanks!

What do you think spirulina is?

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Miche wrote:
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
>>>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>>>>
>>>> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
>>>
>>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>>> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
>>> will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
>>> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.
>>
>> I was just watching a show on manna and they now think it is a form
>> of algae. They were growing it and they said it can support life.
>> Imagine that as your only food source. No thanks!
>
> What do you think spirulina is?

Yucky and smelly. I've never tried it. My mom gagged it down during the
70's. She didn't like it. There was no way I was going to try it.

On 1/1/2012 4:28 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, > wrote:
>>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>>>
>>> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
>>
>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
>> will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
>> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.
>
> I was just watching a show on manna and they now think it is a form of
> algae. They were growing it and they said it can support life. Imagine
> that as your only food source. No thanks!

I just think that given the choice of eating icky green goo or starving
to death, you just might go for the goo. Just remember that "SOYLENT
GREEN IS... PEOPLE!" :-)

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/1/2012 4:28 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, > wrote:
>>>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>>>>
>>>> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
>>>
>>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>>> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
>>> will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
>>> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.
>>
>> I was just watching a show on manna and they now think it is a form of
>> algae. They were growing it and they said it can support life. Imagine
>> that as your only food source. No thanks!
>
> I just think that given the choice of eating icky green goo or starving to
> death, you just might go for the goo. Just remember that "SOYLENT GREEN
> IS... PEOPLE!" :-)

The choice between vegan food and starving to death would pose a
considerably greater choice to me.

Paul

On Jan 2, 8:46*am, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1/1/2012 4:28 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >> dsi1 wrote:
> >>> On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, > *wrote:
> >>>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>
> >>>>http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor....
>
> >>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
> >>> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
> >>> will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
> >>> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.
>
> >> I was just watching a show on manna and they now think it is a form of
> >> algae. *They were growing it and they said it can support life. *Imagine
> >> that as your only food source. *No thanks!
>
> > I just think that given the choice of eating icky green goo or starving to
> > death, you just might go for the goo. Just remember that "SOYLENT GREEN
> > IS... PEOPLE!" :-)
>
> The choice between vegan food and starving to death would pose a
> considerably greater choice to me.

Are you referring of the option of eating the vegans?
>
> Paul

--Bryan

On Jan 2, 4:46*am, "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1/1/2012 4:28 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >> dsi1 wrote:
> >>> On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, > *wrote:
> >>>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>
> >>>>http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor....
>
> >>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
> >>> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
> >>> will be available only to rich folk. What will meat without a soul
> >>> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.
>
> >> I was just watching a show on manna and they now think it is a form of
> >> algae. *They were growing it and they said it can support life. *Imagine
> >> that as your only food source. *No thanks!
>
> > I just think that given the choice of eating icky green goo or starving to
> > death, you just might go for the goo. Just remember that "SOYLENT GREEN
> > IS... PEOPLE!" :-)
>
> The choice between vegan food and starving to death would pose a
> considerably greater choice to me.
>
> Paul

I suppose. We could choose between steak and starving too but this
does not tell us anything
about what humans would do to survive.

On 01/02/2012 06:46 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...

>> I just think that given the choice of eating icky green goo or starving to
>> death, you just might go for the goo. Just remember that "SOYLENT GREEN
>> IS... PEOPLE!" :-)
>
> The choice between vegan food and starving to death would pose a
> considerably greater choice to me.

That's such bullshit. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are vegan. So
are fruit salad, spaghetti marinara, sorbet, baked potatoes, sourdough
bread, fresh summer watermelon, popcorn, gazpacho, margaritas, a ripe
tomato drizzled with olive oil and topped with basil and roasted garlic,
and on and on. SO many delicious foods.

I'm not a vegan any more, but every time I hear someone spout this "Oh,
I would die rather than eat vegan food" crap, I just feel so dismissive.
You eat vegan food all the time. It hasn't killed you yet.

Serene

--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

In article
>,
dsi1 > wrote:

> On Jan 1, 12:31*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> > Stunning article from Australia. * Learned a lot.
> >
> > http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
>
> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
> will be available only to rich folk.

Maybe where you live. In New Zealand it's still likely to be resaonably
easily available.

> What will meat without a soul
> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.

If you believe in souls.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

On 1/1/2012 5:38 PM, Miche wrote:
> In article
> >,
> > wrote:
>
>> On Jan 1, 12:31 pm, > wrote:
>>> Stunning article from Australia. Learned a lot.
>>>
>>> http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...eal-theres-mor...
>>
>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>> Growing it on the hoof is just too inefficient and slow. Real meat
>> will be available only to rich folk.
>
> Maybe where you live. In New Zealand it's still likely to be resaonably
> easily available.

I think you are right about this.

>
>> What will meat without a soul
>> taste? Pretty alien would be my guess.
>
> If you believe in souls.

Sorry for getting philosophical. I'll do my best to not let it happen
again. :-)

>
> Miche
>

On 1/1/2012 7:03 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 16:51:59 -0800 (PST), dsi1 wrote:
>
>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>
> Define "soon".
>
> It'll never happen. And we'll never prove it either way.

20 years. My guess is that it's going to be an offshoot of the research
on growing tissue for replacement organs and body parts. Any reason why
you think it won't happen or is this just a random contrary position?

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:40:36 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>On 1/1/2012 7:03 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 16:51:59 -0800 (PST), dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>>
>> Define "soon".
>>
>> It'll never happen. And we'll never prove it either way.
>
>20 years. My guess is that it's going to be an offshoot of the research
>on growing tissue for replacement organs and body parts. Any reason why
>you think it won't happen or is this just a random contrary position?

We've been eating laboratory meat for like a century... what do yoose
think SPAM is:
http://www.hormelfoods.com/about/history/default.aspx
Another Laboratory meat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillshire_Farm
Preground stupidmarket mystery meat comes fresh from Frankenstein
Labs.

On Jan 2, 7:35*am, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>
> We've been eating laboratory meat for like a century... what do yoose
> think SPAM is:http://www.hormelfoods.com/about/history/default.aspx

Many of us do not eat SPAM.

--Bryan

dsi1 wrote:
> Sqwertz wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>
>>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>
>> Define "soon".
>
>> It'll never happen. And we'll never prove it either way.
>
> 20 years. My guess is that it's going to be an offshoot of the research
> on growing tissue for replacement organs and body parts. Any reason why
> you think it won't happen or is this just a random contrary position?

The trouble is that "soon" and "20 years" number is what has happened
with air cars, nuclear electricity so cheap it does not to be metered,
fusion power and a host of other nice sounding items.

There's currently no good way to make a reasonable estimate of how soon
if ever cultured meat is common on th emarket. In Star Trek it didn't
happen until between ST-TOS and ST-TNG. I'll go with that century.

There's also no way that cultured meat can compete with real meat for
price. Animals are self growing and self replicating. Cultured meat
takes a lot of synthetic chemistry.

On 1/3/2012 9:52 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> 20 years. My guess is that it's going to be an offshoot of the research
>> on growing tissue for replacement organs and body parts. Any reason why
>> you think it won't happen or is this just a random contrary position?
>
> The trouble is that "soon" and "20 years" number is what has happened
> with air cars, nuclear electricity so cheap it does not to be metered,
> fusion power and a host of other nice sounding items.
>
> There's currently no good way to make a reasonable estimate of how soon
> if ever cultured meat is common on th emarket. In Star Trek it didn't
> happen until between ST-TOS and ST-TNG. I'll go with that century.
>
> There's also no way that cultured meat can compete with real meat for
> price. Animals are self growing and self replicating. Cultured meat
> takes a lot of synthetic chemistry.

My guess is that it's not too difficult to grow a lump of tissue. It's
not like making microprocessor. I'm not sure why you think it can't
compete in price considering the amount of time it takes to grow a cow,
and the resources that's needed, and the amount of processing and
manpower that it takes to get a steak to your table. I'm thinking that
people in the future will be growing steak-like material in their
bathtubs. :-)

I can appreciate your skepticism but it never hurt nobody to dream about
things of the future. We could have never dreamed up this connected,
high speed, digital world 20 years ago, although some did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb0avfQme8

dsi1 wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>> There's also no way that cultured meat can compete with real meat for
>> price. Animals are self growing and self replicating. Cultured meat
>> takes a lot of synthetic chemistry.
>
> My guess is that it's not too difficult to grow a lump of tissue. It's
> not like making microprocessor. I'm not sure why you think it can't
> compete in price considering the amount of time it takes to grow a cow,
> and the resources that's needed, and the amount of processing and
> manpower that it takes to get a steak to your table. I'm thinking that
> people in the future will be growing steak-like material in their
> bathtubs. :-)

Cows grow by eating grass. Cultured meat grows by eating a wide variety
of customized organic chemicals that have to be produced somehow. Sure,
you could build a digester that takes grass, digests it and supplies all
of those amino acids, fatty acids, co-enzymes, vitamins, minerals and on
an on. But getting that digester machine price competive with growing
grass? Not just a bit in the future.

> I can appreciate your skepticism but it never hurt nobody to dream about
> things of the future.

That part's true. I expect designer meats to be on the market in that
time range. Brontosaurus or mastadon burger anyone? But competing with
cows and chickens for price is farther out.

> We could have never dreamed up this connected,
> high speed, digital world 20 years ago, although some did.

I'd been online for 6+ years for that point and I definitely could not
comprehend the exponential growth curve. Heck, in 1980 I was one of the
many people who invented the PDA that year but I projected the prices
out a few years and decided against patenting it. Someone with more
imagination than my did patent it in that year. Now PDAs are obsolate
and have been included in our phones.

The Borg in Star Trek is not as extreme as they seem.

dsi1 > wrote in news:jdvqok$30n$1
@dont-email.me:

> We could have never dreamed up this connected,
> high speed, digital world 20 years ago, although some did.

Thirty or so years ago I organized a conference between my
employer, a lobby group run for the benefit of academic
publications, our member associations and the government funding
body that subsidized their publications.

One of the subjects of discussion was future publishing media (as
opposed to dead tree issue) and how they could be more cost-
effective. One of the participants had already demonstrated that
he could plug in his 300 baud telephone modem down at the hotel
office and check his e-mail on his university server. He could
probably do it in his room too.

The idea that we should move to electronic files in order to save
publishing costs was brought up, one which I wholeheartedly
supported, but the idea was shelved as too extreme. It seems
that one of the most important aspects of getting one's
association journal was not the content as much as the "fondle
factor".

Of course, we have all seen Yeoman Rand bring Captain Kirk a
tablet upon which was inscribed the duty roster, and we saw him
appose his signature. Then later (mostly in DS9) people read
things off thin electronic tablets. This Christmas I bought a
tablet for myself. I have long had a "communicator", one that
flipped open when Kirk spoke to the Enterprise in orbit.

We are living in a Star Trek world. I wonder how we will build
starships when the time comes...

--

If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t
help the poor, either we’ve got to pretend that Jesus
was just as selfish as we are, or we’ve got to acknowledge
that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy
without condition, and then admit that we just don’t
want to do it.

Stephen Colbert (via videcormeum)

On Jan 2, 7:06*am, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:40:36 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
> > On 1/1/2012 7:03 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> >> On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 16:51:59 -0800 (PST), dsi1 wrote:
>
> >>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>
> >> Define "soon".
>
> >> It'll never happen. *And we'll never prove it either way.
>
> > 20 years. My guess is that it's going to be an offshoot of the research
> > on growing tissue for replacement organs and body parts. Any reason why
> > you think it won't happen or is this just a random contrary position?
>
> I'm not going to argue this with you. *It's not going to happen in 20
> or 50 or 100 years. *You're nu
>
> -sw

It's best not to argue the point. You're finally getting smart. Please
continue to not argue the point. It will save us both a lot of
valuable time.
I

On 1/2/2012 1:06 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Jan 2, 7:06 am, > wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:40:36 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 1/1/2012 7:03 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 16:51:59 -0800 (PST), dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>>>> It's obvious to me that we'll be eating meat grown in labs soon.
>>
>>>> Define "soon".
>>
>>>> It'll never happen. And we'll never prove it either way.
>>
>>> 20 years. My guess is that it's going to be an offshoot of the research
>>> on growing tissue for replacement organs and body parts. Any reason why
>>> you think it won't happen or is this just a random contrary position?
>>
>> I'm not going to argue this with you. It's not going to happen in 20
>> or 50 or 100 years. You're nu
>>
>> -sw
>
> It's best not to argue the point. You're finally getting smart. Please
> continue to not argue the point. It will save us both a lot of
> valuable time.
> I


You know it is already possible to grow bone when the jaw has
insufficient for titanium implants. Your own platelets are injected into
an inserted sterilized dead bone matrix.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*