notbob > wrote:

>On 2012-01-31, Steve Pope > wrote:

>> The bottom line is if your doc sends you straight to Allopurinol
>> he is perhaps taking a shortcut. (Or perhaps not, depending on
>> the total amount of data in front of him.)

>Doubtful. My rheumatologist monitored my treatment for 9 mos. Hardly
>a "shortcut". Probenecid, under the name Benuryl sounds vaguely
>familiar and was, I think, responsible for some horrific side effects
>I suffered.

So I think you're saying the doc did not send you straight to allopurinol;
he tried probenedic first. Therefore, he did not take any shortcuts.

>Everyone is different and a good specialist is yer best
>bet. The Palo Alto Medical Clinic, staffed by many Stanford docs, is
>no padding of quacks, so I'm pretty sure I got more than competent
>care.

It sounds like you did.

Tangentially, the standard of care for uncomplicated gout in a
reasonably healthy patient is to treat it in primary care; no
referral to rheumatology in the usual case.


Steve

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:44:28 -0800, Bob Terwilliger
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> > Gout is not off topic in a food group because food triggers it and it
> > can be controlled by not eating certain things.
>
> Gotta throw the "bullshit" flag on that one. It *is* off-topic, and the
> transgression will be noted on your PERMANENT RECORD. :-)
>
Ouch!

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On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:53:48 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 07:41:34 -0800 (PST), merryb >
>
> >> Not true- I've had my big toe fused and I have rods in 3 of my toes.
> >> It was one of the best things I have ever done.
>
> >Fusing a toe isn't the goal when someone has surgery to remove bone
> >spurs.
>
> It might be. Foot problems come in all sorts of different
> configurations.
>
She was talking about a toe with bone spurs and my example was about a
toe with bone spurs. Too bad reading comprehensions abound in this
thread.

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On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:54:51 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 07:32:29 -0800 (PST), Kalmia
>
> >> I'd call him back and ask for a list of food triggers. I knew a woman
> >> with gouty arthritis and she was told to avoid beans. (Anecdotal)
>
> >The internet has lists rated by how many purines are in each food.
> >http://arthritis.about.com/cs/gout/a/foodstoavoid.htm (beans are high
> >in purines, but okay on that list)
> >http://www.ehow.com/way_5348067_list...ich-foods.html
> >http://www.acumedico.com/purine.htm
>
> I eat fewer beans than in my pre-gout days. For sure they have
> some purines in them, but not so much as to totally exclude them.
>
Before we started this low carb thing, I was increasing the frequency
of meatless meals where beans were the star of the show and hubby
didn't have any twinges.


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In article >,
Goomba > wrote:

> On 1/31/12 10:34 AM, Kalmia wrote:
> > On Jan 30, 7:42 pm, "Julie > wrote:
> >
> > My husband
> >> is on pills for it but I don't know the name. Y
> >
> > Geez - you should be walking around with a written list of dh's meds.
> > What if you have to take him to an ER some night and they ask his
> > meds? Get that into YOUR wallet NOW - at least before you answer
> > another post.
>
> IMO, it makes more sense for the husband himself to have a list of his
> own meds in *his* wallet. Otherwise there is a chance that if she is
> admitted and can't speak for herself, someone might mistake that list
> for being *her* meds.

I doubt she takes him to the ER very often. He lives and works two
states away.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

sf > wrote:

<snip>

> Before we started this low carb thing, I was increasing the frequency
> of meatless meals where beans were the star of the show and hubby
> didn't have any twinges.

Vegetable purines *usually* don't have the same effect and animal purines,
but watch out for mushrooms. Some varieties are worse than organ meats.

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On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:15:14 -0500, Goomba >
wrote:

>On 1/31/12 10:34 AM, Kalmia wrote:
>> On Jan 30, 7:42 pm, "Julie > wrote:
>>
>> My husband
>>> is on pills for it but I don't know the name. Y
>>
>> Geez - you should be walking around with a written list of dh's meds.
>> What if you have to take him to an ER some night and they ask his
>> meds? Get that into YOUR wallet NOW - at least before you answer
>> another post.
>
>IMO, it makes more sense for the husband himself to have a list of his
>own meds in *his* wallet. Otherwise there is a chance that if she is
>admitted and can't speak for herself, someone might mistake that list
>for being *her* meds.

That is why you put a name on the list. My wife carries hers, but I
have copies readily available too. Her name and short medical history
is on the list.

On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 01:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Mike Muth
> wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Before we started this low carb thing, I was increasing the frequency
> > of meatless meals where beans were the star of the show and hubby
> > didn't have any twinges.
>
> Vegetable purines *usually* don't have the same effect and animal purines,
> but watch out for mushrooms. Some varieties are worse than organ meats.

So far, mushrooms haven't been a problem - but I don't usually make
things like mushroom ragu (however it's on the menu in the near
future). Which mushrooms are particularly bad?


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wrote:
>I have had gout flare up in both feet at separate times. My
>podiatrist gave me an injection of steroids directly in my foot.
>I am guessing that a local injection would have been better. No?

Ultimately, you need to be taking Allopurinol daily, perhaps as much as 400 MG.
so that your uric acid levels remain controlled and the crystals never
accumulate around your joints in the first place. I haven't had an attack in
three years.

Orlando

On 2/1/2012 3:20 AM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> wrote:
>> I have had gout flare up in both feet at separate times. My
>> podiatrist gave me an injection of steroids directly in my foot.
>> I am guessing that a local injection would have been better. No?
>
> Ultimately, you need to be taking Allopurinol daily, perhaps as much as 400 MG.
> so that your uric acid levels remain controlled and the crystals never
> accumulate around your joints in the first place. I haven't had an attack in
> three years.

Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
largish percentage of the population is inflicted.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/1/2012 3:20 AM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> I have had gout flare up in both feet at separate times. My
>>> podiatrist gave me an injection of steroids directly in my foot.
>>> I am guessing that a local injection would have been better. No?
>>
>> Ultimately, you need to be taking Allopurinol daily, perhaps as much as
>> 400 MG.
>> so that your uric acid levels remain controlled and the crystals never
>> accumulate around your joints in the first place. I haven't had an attack
>> in
>> three years.
>
> Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
> complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
> largish percentage of the population is inflicted.
>
> nancy

When I was first diagnosed I started asking around and found
a lot of my friends have it, but it was not too much talked about.
Turns out that it is one of the oldest known illnesses, the
excellent article in wikipedia traces it to 2,600 BC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gout

"Gout has, however, been known since antiquity. Historically, it has
been referred to as "the king of diseases and the disease of kings"[6][49]
or "rich man's disease".[50] The first documentation of the disease is
from Egypt in 2,600 BC in a description of arthritis of the big toe..."

pavane

On 01/02/2012 10:04 AM, Nancy Young wrote:

> Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
> complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
> largish percentage of the population is inflicted.


That came up in chat last night. I only know one person who suffers from
gout and I was really surprised to read about so many people in this
group having a problem with it.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> On 01/02/2012 10:04 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
> > complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
> > largish percentage of the population is inflicted.
>
> That came up in chat last night. I only know one person who suffers from
> gout and I was really surprised to read about so many people in this
> group having a problem with it.

Old ppl!

On 01/02/2012 11:00 AM, Gary wrote:

>>> Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
>>> complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
>>> largish percentage of the population is inflicted.
>>
>> That came up in chat last night. I only know one person who suffers from
>> gout and I was really surprised to read about so many people in this
>> group having a problem with it.
>
> Old ppl!

Yeah, I used to thing that only old people got it, but the only person I
knew who had it was in his mid 40s.

On 2012-02-01, Dave Smith > wrote:

> Yeah, I used to thing that only old people got it, but the only person I
> knew who had it was in his mid 40s.

I got it in my late 40s. OTOH, I had discovered salt packed
anchovies and was eating 'em like beer nuts and had been for some
time. Bad mojo, as anchovies are monster purine content food.
Apparently, increasing or decreasing one's uric acid levels is not an
overnight occurance, it taking weeks/months, even with proper meds.
If I'd never discovered those anchovies, I may have never had gout
probs.

nb

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On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 10:48:23 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> On 01/02/2012 10:04 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
> > complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
> > largish percentage of the population is inflicted.
>
>
> That came up in chat last night. I only know one person who suffers from
> gout and I was really surprised to read about so many people in this
> group having a problem with it.

I know more than one, so basically it's who do you know who has it and
is willing to talk about it. I suppose it's kind of embarrassing to
say you've got it because it was made fun of so much in cartoons when
we were growing up... but now there's allopurinol, so people take the
pill and don't have attacks or claim to be allergic to the foods they
need to avoid.

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On 2/1/2012 10:38 AM, pavane wrote:
> "Nancy > wrote in message

>> Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
>> complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
>> largish percentage of the population is inflicted.

> When I was first diagnosed I started asking around and found
> a lot of my friends have it, but it was not too much talked about.

I see. No one complains here, I hope no one took it that I was
saying that, just when one person asks a question, there are so
many with insight that it seems as if everyone has gout.

> Turns out that it is one of the oldest known illnesses, the
> excellent article in wikipedia traces it to 2,600 BC:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gout
>
> "Gout has, however, been known since antiquity. Historically, it has
> been referred to as "the king of diseases and the disease of kings"[6][49]
> or "rich man's disease".[50] The first documentation of the disease is
> from Egypt in 2,600 BC in a description of arthritis of the big toe..."

Interesting article, thanks!

nancy

sf > wrote:

<snip>

> So far, mushrooms haven't been a problem - but I don't usually make
> things like mushroom ragu (however it's on the menu in the near
> future). Which mushrooms are particularly bad?

flat, edible boletus mushrooms contain 488 mg purines per 100 grams.
morels contain 59 mg per 100.

The morels would likely be okay.

The guidelines a
Over 200 mg / 100 grams - avoid like the plague
100 - 199 mg /100 grams - eat sparingly
under 100 mg / 100 grams - normally okay, but watch for any which might be
triggers.



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Nancy Young > wrote:


> Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
> complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
> largish percentage of the population is inflicted.

Apparently a number of people have gout and don't realize it. Among those
who have diagnosed gout are a sizeable group whose toes and feet are not
affected (I am one, and my father another). I had one VA doctor tell me
that if the big toe isn't inflamed I can't have gout.

For those of us with this variation, it's normally just diagnosed as
arthritis - especially since gout and arthitis often strike the same
people.

--
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http://forums.delphiforums.com/mikes_place1/start
My Amazon.com author page: http://tinyurl.com/695lgym

Nancy Young > wrote:

>Just how common is this gout business?

It is the most common form of arthritis.

It's also the most treatable, which is why you may not hear
about it much from people.

Steve

Mike Muth > wrote:

>Apparently a number of people have gout and don't realize it. Among those
>who have diagnosed gout are a sizeable group whose toes and feet are not
>affected (I am one, and my father another). I had one VA doctor tell me
>that if the big toe isn't inflamed I can't have gout.

A woman I know had a sudden-onset swollen ankle, that went away
and repeated after two months, and asked what it might be. I
said to consider it may be gout. She talked to a doctor who
said it didn't fit the profile. (Not male, and not the first MTP joint.)

The doctor could well be right, but it also doesn't seem quite
right to exclude it that quickly. Then again, that's the
sort of call primary care doctors need to make 24/7 so I
can't blame him.


Steve

(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Mike Muth > wrote:
>
>>Apparently a number of people have gout and don't realize it. Among
>>those who have diagnosed gout are a sizeable group whose toes and feet
>>are not affected (I am one, and my father another). I had one VA
>>doctor tell me that if the big toe isn't inflamed I can't have gout.
>
> A woman I know had a sudden-onset swollen ankle, that went away
> and repeated after two months, and asked what it might be. I
> said to consider it may be gout. She talked to a doctor who
> said it didn't fit the profile. (Not male, and not the first MTP
> joint.)
>
> The doctor could well be right, but it also doesn't seem quite
> right to exclude it that quickly. Then again, that's the
> sort of call primary care doctors need to make 24/7 so I
> can't blame him.

The VA doctor was a bit worse. I was pretty insistent, citing my father's
atypical gout. Finally, he said that he would have the lab to a uric acid
lab. They drew the blood, but when I talked to them, it turned out he had
ordered another lab entirely. That was the last time I saw him.

When I left Topeka to work for the IRS in Wichita, KS, I started seeing a
physician in Newton, KS. I described the symptoms and his first response
was "let's check your uric acid." A few days later, his nurse practitioner
called me to advise me of my new prescription for allopurinol. Life is
much better now that I can walk without pain.



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My Amazon.com author page: http://tinyurl.com/695lgym

On 2012-02-01, Mike Muth > wrote:

> The VA doctor was a bit worse. I was pretty insistent, citing my father's
> atypical gout. Finally, he said that he would have the lab to a uric acid
> lab. They drew the blood, but when I talked to them, it turned out he had
> ordered another lab entirely. That was the last time I saw him.
>
> When I left Topeka to work for the IRS in Wichita, KS, I started seeing a
> physician in Newton, KS. I described the symptoms and his first response
> was "let's check your uric acid." A few days later, his nurse practitioner
> called me to advise me of my new prescription for allopurinol. Life is
> much better now that I can walk without pain.

Like any job position, some ppl are simply incompetent dolts, others
are complete jerks and outta be flogged! I've suffered both.

My first and only attack began as a sore ankle. Within 2 days I was
unable to walk, on the couch with a hot purple foot the size of a
football, and in excruciating pain. I finally got a friend to take me
to Kaiser where a doc said, "You have gout", and walked away. The
dirty sonofabitch gave me some colchicine, but wouldn't even prescribe
crutches, which I finally wangled from a sympathetic Kaiser RN 2 days later, after
hopping in on one foot from the parking lot to the clinic waiting
room.

I was on that couch for another week before the swelling went down
enough to actively gimp around. After 2 more weeks --still on
crutches-- and only slight relief, 2 separate Kaiser specialists, and
an totally unnecessary spinal tap, I changed health plans and finally
got some real medical treatment. The only medical practitioner at
Kaiser, during that entire fiasco, who didn't deserve to be shot was
that RN!

nb

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On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:18:54 +0000 (UTC), Mike Muth
> wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > So far, mushrooms haven't been a problem - but I don't usually make
> > things like mushroom ragu (however it's on the menu in the near
> > future). Which mushrooms are particularly bad?
>
> flat, edible boletus mushrooms contain 488 mg purines per 100 grams.
> morels contain 59 mg per 100.
>
> The morels would likely be okay.
>
> The guidelines a
> Over 200 mg / 100 grams - avoid like the plague
> 100 - 199 mg /100 grams - eat sparingly
> under 100 mg / 100 grams - normally okay, but watch for any which might be
> triggers.

Thanks. So far, so good.

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On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:30:07 +0000 (UTC), Mike Muth
> wrote:

> Nancy Young > wrote:
>
>
> > Just how common is this gout business? IRL, I never hear anyone
> > complaining Oh, my gout flared up. On rfc, I get the idea that a
> > largish percentage of the population is inflicted.
>
> Apparently a number of people have gout and don't realize it. Among those
> who have diagnosed gout are a sizeable group whose toes and feet are not
> affected (I am one, and my father another). I had one VA doctor tell me
> that if the big toe isn't inflamed I can't have gout.
>
> For those of us with this variation, it's normally just diagnosed as
> arthritis - especially since gout and arthitis often strike the same
> people.

My husband didn't go to the Dr the first time he got it. It was in
his knee, so he thought he'd wrenched it while he was being Mr.
Handyman.

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Mike Muth > wrote:

(Steve Pope) wrote:

>> Mike Muth > wrote:
>>
>>>Apparently a number of people have gout and don't realize it. Among
>>>those who have diagnosed gout are a sizeable group whose toes and feet
>>>are not affected (I am one, and my father another). I had one VA
>>>doctor tell me that if the big toe isn't inflamed I can't have gout.
>>
>> A woman I know had a sudden-onset swollen ankle, that went away
>> and repeated after two months, and asked what it might be. I
>> said to consider it may be gout. She talked to a doctor who
>> said it didn't fit the profile. (Not male, and not the first MTP
>> joint.)

>> The doctor could well be right, but it also doesn't seem quite
>> right to exclude it that quickly. Then again, that's the
>> sort of call primary care doctors need to make 24/7 so I
>> can't blame him.

>The VA doctor was a bit worse. I was pretty insistent, citing my father's
>atypical gout. Finally, he said that he would have the lab to a uric acid
>lab. They drew the blood, but when I talked to them, it turned out he had
>ordered another lab entirely. That was the last time I saw him.

>When I left Topeka to work for the IRS in Wichita, KS, I started seeing a
>physician in Newton, KS. I described the symptoms and his first response
>was "let's check your uric acid." A few days later, his nurse practitioner
>called me to advise me of my new prescription for allopurinol. Life is
>much better now that I can walk without pain.

Right. My first gout attack occured when I was traveling in Canada,
and was so textbook that a doctor there looked at me and Dx'ed gout.

After returning home, my doctor ordered a uric acid test (to be
done in two months; the test is not meaningful near the time of
the attack). The reading was something like 9.8. My doctor said
something to the effect of, so if it recurs, then it's gout.
It did not recur for 7 years; but that second attack lasted two
months. I went on medication at that time, and have not yet
had a third attack.

But if I sense one approaching, I start dosing with colchicine.
Anyway, my blood levels now look fine, usually between 3.5 and 5.5.

What you really don't want is untreated gout.



Steve

notbob > wrote:

>On 2012-02-01, Mike Muth > wrote:
>
>My first and only attack began as a sore ankle. Within 2 days I was
>unable to walk, on the couch with a hot purple foot the size of a
>football, and in excruciating pain. I finally got a friend to take me
>to Kaiser where a doc said, "You have gout", and walked away. The
>dirty sonofabitch gave me some colchicine, but wouldn't even prescribe
>crutches, which I finally wangled from a sympathetic Kaiser RN 2 days
>later, after
>hopping in on one foot from the parking lot to the clinic waiting
>room.

>I was on that couch for another week before the swelling went down
>enough to actively gimp around. After 2 more weeks --still on
>crutches-- and only slight relief, 2 separate Kaiser specialists, and
>an totally unnecessary spinal tap, I changed health plans and finally
>got some real medical treatment. The only medical practitioner at
>Kaiser, during that entire fiasco, who didn't deserve to be shot was
>that RN!

If you do not mind my asking, I'd be curious which Kaiser facility
this was.

In my experience it can be hard to get crutches, knee braces, and the
like out of any departments other than ER or Orthopedics.

Steve

In article >,
Mike Muth > wrote:

> Apparently a number of people have gout and don't realize it. Among those
> who have diagnosed gout are a sizeable group whose toes and feet are not
> affected (I am one, and my father another). I had one VA doctor tell me
> that if the big toe isn't inflamed I can't have gout.

Apparently that idiot gets around. He misdiagnosed my first gout attack
in 1990, after I ate a whole bunch of crawdads out of a local Nevada
lake, using the same explanation. When I get gout in the foot, it
sometimes possibly may be associated with bones deep in my foot
associated with the big toe.

leo

notbob > wrote:

<snip>

> My first and only attack began as a sore ankle. Within 2 days I was
> unable to walk, on the couch with a hot purple foot the size of a
> football, and in excruciating pain. I finally got a friend to take me
> to Kaiser where a doc said, "You have gout", and walked away. The
> dirty sonofabitch gave me some colchicine, but wouldn't even prescribe
> crutches, which I finally wangled from a sympathetic Kaiser RN 2 days
> later, after hopping in on one foot from the parking lot to the clinic
> waiting room.

Mine doesn't present with a lot of inflammation, although there is
reddening and swelling of the joints. I have been on crutches a few times,
mainly during my last job in Europe.

One of the things about the gout is that it can generate some nasty
bursitis. That seems to be something that the US Army doctors (and the
German doctors I saw) are unable to diagnose. I came back to the USA in
2010 for almost 2 months. During that stay, I went to see my regular MD.
He checked the symptoms and said, it looks like the bursitis is acting up
and gave me an injection of Triamcinalone in the joint. I hobbled into his
office but walked (with a limp) out. By the time I got back to Germany, I
was good for another few months.

I had two sets of crutches - one in the USA and 1 in Schweinfurt.

--
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On 2012-02-02, Steve Pope > wrote:

> If you do not mind my asking, I'd be curious which Kaiser facility
> this was.

Pleasanton, which was relatively new and had recently tripled in size.

> In my experience it can be hard to get crutches, knee braces, and the
> like out of any departments other than ER or Orthopedics.

They had some real hacks, there.

One evening, on the 2nd or 3rd med they'd dosed me with, providing no
improvement but horrific side-effects, I went back to P-town Kaiser
with a near migraine headache. Another quack was afraid I was having
some sorta bleeding into the brain episode and put me in an ambulance
for Walnut Creek Kaiser ER, where I waited for 7 hrs to be seen,
finally given a spinal tap, which revealed nothing, given two pills
which also did nothing, then finally given an injection that took
almost a half hour to provide any relief. They finally said I was ok
and could go home.

This was at 2:30am in the morning and I was 24 miles from my car back
at the P-town Kaiser parking lot. I told them they'd got me here and
they could damn well get me back or my attorney would get downright
nasty. They finally called a cab and I got home about 4:00am in the
morning, but with no headache. It was December, the one month when
our company allowed employees to changed health providers and I
changed within the week.

nb


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On 2 Feb 2012 03:54:12 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2012-02-02, Steve Pope > wrote:
>
> > If you do not mind my asking, I'd be curious which Kaiser facility
> > this was.
>
> Pleasanton, which was relatively new and had recently tripled in size.
>
> > In my experience it can be hard to get crutches, knee braces, and the
> > like out of any departments other than ER or Orthopedics.
>
> They had some real hacks, there.
>
> One evening, on the 2nd or 3rd med they'd dosed me with, providing no
> improvement but horrific side-effects, I went back to P-town Kaiser
> with a near migraine headache. Another quack was afraid I was having
> some sorta bleeding into the brain episode and put me in an ambulance
> for Walnut Creek Kaiser ER, where I waited for 7 hrs to be seen,
> finally given a spinal tap, which revealed nothing, given two pills
> which also did nothing, then finally given an injection that took
> almost a half hour to provide any relief. They finally said I was ok
> and could go home.
>
> This was at 2:30am in the morning and I was 24 miles from my car back
> at the P-town Kaiser parking lot. I told them they'd got me here and
> they could damn well get me back or my attorney would get downright
> nasty. They finally called a cab and I got home about 4:00am in the
> morning, but with no headache. It was December, the one month when
> our company allowed employees to changed health providers and I
> changed within the week.
>
How many years ago was that?

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notbob > wrote:

>On 2012-02-02, Steve Pope > wrote:

>> If you do not mind my asking, I'd be curious which Kaiser facility
>> this was.

>Pleasanton, which was relatively new and had recently tripled in size.

>> In my experience it can be hard to get crutches, knee braces, and the
>> like out of any departments other than ER or Orthopedics.

>They had some real hacks, there.

I'm sure that's true, OTOH the doctor who Dx'ed gout and did
not give you crutches was probably not falling short of any
standard of care. Crutches are probably not medically necessary
for a gout case. It's not the same as say a fractured ankle, where
you need to use crutches otherwise the bone healing will be
compromised. I doubt that giving a gout patient crutches
changes the likely outcome.


Steve

On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:

> I'm sure that's true, OTOH the doctor who Dx'ed gout and did
> not give you crutches was probably not falling short of any
> standard of care. Crutches are probably not medically necessary
> for a gout case. It's not the same as say a fractured ankle, where
> you need to use crutches otherwise the bone healing will be
> compromised. I doubt that giving a gout patient crutches
> changes the likely outcome.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

Crutches are devices that allow one to walk, period. I COULD NOT! I
had to crawl or hop on one leg to even get to the bathroom. How is
that different than a "fractured ankle" or broken leg? I was paying
these assholes $100 per month co-pay and for what? To crawl to my
bathroom on my hands an kness to take a ****!!??. Even an RN had
enough sense to see the problem and give me crutches. The entire
fiasco ended in a pointless spinal-tap, ferchrysakes! I shoulda sued
their friggin' asses off.

nb

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notbob > wrote:

>On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:

>> I'm sure that's true, OTOH the doctor who Dx'ed gout and did
>> not give you crutches was probably not falling short of any
>> standard of care. Crutches are probably not medically necessary
>> for a gout case. It's not the same as say a fractured ankle, where
>> you need to use crutches otherwise the bone healing will be
>> compromised. I doubt that giving a gout patient crutches
>> changes the likely outcome.

>That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

Sure, it's a stupid thing, but don't shoot the messenger!

>Crutches are devices that allow one to walk, period. I COULD NOT! I
>had to crawl or hop on one leg to even get to the bathroom. How is
>that different than a "fractured ankle" or broken leg?

Because your contract with Kaiser may well say they must provide
you with medical devices necessary to treat your medical condition,
but not devices that merely make life easier for you.

Steve

On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:
> notbob > wrote:
>
>>On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:

>>> compromised. I doubt that giving a gout patient crutches
>>> changes the likely outcome.
>
>>That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

> you with medical devices necessary to treat your medical condition,
> but not devices that merely make life easier for you.

The 2nd stupidest thing I've ever heard from you!

Let's call the whole thing off.

nb

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On 4 Feb 2012 23:17:23 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:
> > notbob > wrote:
> >
> >>On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:
>
> >>> compromised. I doubt that giving a gout patient crutches
> >>> changes the likely outcome.
> >
> >>That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.
>
> > you with medical devices necessary to treat your medical condition,
> > but not devices that merely make life easier for you.
>
> The 2nd stupidest thing I've ever heard from you!

But he's right about plans. Some are more generous than others with
things like crutches.

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sf > wrote:

>On 4 Feb 2012 23:17:23 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
>> On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:
>> > notbob > wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 2012-02-04, Steve Pope > wrote:
>>
>> >>> compromised. I doubt that giving a gout patient crutches
>> >>> changes the likely outcome.
>> >
>> >>That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.
>>
>> > you with medical devices necessary to treat your medical condition,
>> > but not devices that merely make life easier for you.
>>
>> The 2nd stupidest thing I've ever heard from you!
>
>But he's right about plans. Some are more generous than others with
>things like crutches.

Yes, and more to the point, if my plan paid for medically unneeded
items, then its premiums would be higher. So I don't see it as an
advantage. If Kaiser were not rationing stuff the premiums would
be astronomical.

(Heck, by my age a lot of people already own a pair of crutches...)


S.