I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
and raising blood sugar levels:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...ry-blood-sugar

or http://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
> --
> Jim Silverton
>
> Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
lipid profile!

Like shots of pecan oil!

;-)

John Kuthe...

On 28/02/2012 5:41 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> and raising blood sugar levels:
>

I don't know of any side effects I am having as a result of taking
statins, but I just had blood tests and my cholesterol level is down. I
was getting side effects from my blood pressure medication. When I saw
my doctor a couple weeks ago he said that I could try not taking it for
a while because my BP was good. I bought a BP monitor and take daily
readings. My BP is running in the normal to optimal range most of the time.

James Silverton wrote:
> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my
> cholesterol levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my
> cardiologist's suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed
> statins with the the same result. Now a report has appeared blaming
> statins for memory loss and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...ry-blood-sugar
>
> or http://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3

If you look around on the Internet, you'll find plenty to suggest that
the effects of statins are _terrible_ and the entire class of drugs
should be banned. They've been linked to depression, suicide, and a
bunch of other bad stuff, if memory serves, including blood sugar. They
tried to make my mother, may she rest in peace, take a statin towards
the end of her life, when she had worsening dimentia (memory loss) and
was borderline diabetic (blood sugar levels. I raised a huge fuss about
it and they backed off.

Just say no - find another way to deal with your cholesterol, and be
sure to focus on improving your ratios and not worrying about the
overall number. Another underpublicized fact here is that the good type
of cholesterol is being shown to be protective, not only just not bad,
so raising your total cholesterol by improving the quantity of good
cholesterol and therefore your cholesterol ratios can be a very good
thing for your health.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

-S-

On Feb 28, 4:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
>
> > I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> > years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> > levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> > suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> > same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> > and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> >http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> > orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
> > --
> > Jim Silverton
>
> > Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
>
> Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
> cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
> he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
> lipid profile!
>
> Like shots of pecan oil!
>
> ;-)

The failed nurse could show off all the stuff he learned--in his
wasted education--about various medical conditions, while dismissing
the value of knowledge about dietary lipids.
>
> John Kuthe...

--Bryan

On Feb 28, 5:23*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 4:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
>
> > > I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> > > years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> > > levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> > > suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> > > same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> > > and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> > >http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste....
>
> > > orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
> > > --
> > > Jim Silverton
>
> > > Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
>
> > Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
> > cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
> > he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
> > lipid profile!
>
> > Like shots of pecan oil!
>
> > ;-)
>
> The failed nurse could show off all the stuff he learned--in his
> wasted education--about various medical conditions, while dismissing
> the value of knowledge about dietary lipids.
>
>
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> --Bryan

My my! Sensitive about your obsession still?

John Kuthe...

James Silverton > wrote:

>I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
>years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
>levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
>suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
>same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
>and raising blood sugar levels:

I saw those reports also.

The risk that statins might cause diabetes is nowhere near
the risk that either beta-blockers or corticosteroids might cause
diabetes. I would be much more concerned about the later two
categories of meds.

As per usual, the drug regulators operate in a very uneven fashion,
dwelling on minor risks while ignoring major ones.

Steve

On 2/28/2012 5:41 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...ry-blood-sugar
>
>
> or http://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3

The OT post I couldn't find and figured must have never shown up was
partially about statins. I can't tell if some of the pain I have from
nerve compression that goes down my leg is really muscle pain from
statins. So I feel ya. Do you get spasms and "charly horse" type pain
in muscles, for example, your shins or side of shins?

On Feb 28, 6:23*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 4:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
>
> > > I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> > > years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> > > levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> > > suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> > > same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> > > and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> > >http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste....
>
> > > orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
> > > --
> > > Jim Silverton
>
> > > Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
>
> > Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
> > cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
> > he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
> > lipid profile!
>
> > Like shots of pecan oil!
>
> > ;-)
>
> The failed nurse could show off all the stuff he learned--in his
> wasted education--about various medical conditions, while dismissing
> the value of knowledge about dietary lipids.
>
>
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> --Bryan

Ouch! Hey, Kuthe - when your friends start expressing hate for you,
what does that say about you?

On 2/28/2012 5:45 PM, John Kuthe wrote:

> On Feb 28, 4:41 pm, James > wrote:
>> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
>> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
>> levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
>> suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
>> same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
>> and raising blood sugar levels:
>>
>> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>>
>> orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
>> --
>> Jim Silverton
>>
>> Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
>
> Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
> cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
> he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
> lipid profile!
>
> Like shots of pecan oil!

For once and for all, you're now in the bozo bin. I used to just ignore
most of what you wrote unless you replied to me, because you've been ok
to me, but your obsession with Bryan is really terrible to read.

On Feb 28, 2:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
About ten years ago I had a pretty bad problem with high blood
pressure, so the doctor has had me taking one Diovan pill a
day...problem solved. When looking for something at the pharmacy,
just by chance one of the pharmacists pointed out Fish Oil gel-caps to
me, saying just one a day immediately began to lower his cholesterol,
and that after six weeks or so he's stayed well within the proper
cholesterol range constantly. I bought a bottle of them, and have
since proved his advice works just as well for me.
....Picky

On 2/28/2012 6:53 PM, Steve Pope wrote:

> James > wrote:
>
>> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
>> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
>> levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
>> suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
>> same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
>> and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> I saw those reports also.
>
> The risk that statins might cause diabetes is nowhere near
> the risk that either beta-blockers or corticosteroids might cause
> diabetes. I would be much more concerned about the later two
> categories of meds.
>
> As per usual, the drug regulators operate in a very uneven fashion,
> dwelling on minor risks while ignoring major ones.
>
> Steve

Oh, and in addition to another reply I posted, CoQ10 supplement is
supposed to help with the muscle pain but not for me yet. I take that
daily along with Crestor.

I took 20mg zocor for a while. After almost a year I was feeling the
effects when using the muscles. I took myself off the statin. I was
plaed on 10mg Zetia and 10 mg zocor. This low dosage has worked so
far(2yrs) I also take 2 omega fish oil.
I tried 4 fish oil but cholestra went up so I backed off to 2
capsules(1000mg ea.)
This combo seems to be ok. The nurse told me that usually if someone
gets side effects of muscle ache it's when their statin dosage is
increased. BJ

On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3

When you had your last blood cholesterol, did they do a detailed
count, or just HDL/LDL/Triglycerides/Total?

http://www.centerforpreventivemedici..._messenger.pdf

Reducing carb consumption leads to a serious reduction in Plasma
Triglycerides, which is associated with larger, fluffier LDL
particles. Also, HDL/LDL ratios can be greatly improved by high
consumption of olive, pecan, avocado and almond, and some others as
well.
> --
> Jim Silverton

--Bryan

On Feb 28, 5:58*pm, BillyZoom > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 6:23*pm, Bryan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 4:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
>
> > > > I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> > > > years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> > > > levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> > > > suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> > > > same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> > > > and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> > > >http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> > > > orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
> > > > --
> > > > Jim Silverton
>
> > > > Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
>
> > > Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
> > > cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
> > > he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
> > > lipid profile!
>
> > > Like shots of pecan oil!
>
> > > ;-)
>
> > The failed nurse could show off all the stuff he learned--in his
> > wasted education--about various medical conditions, while dismissing
> > the value of knowledge about dietary lipids.
>
> > > John Kuthe...
>
> > --Bryan
>
> Ouch! Hey, Kuthe - when your friends start expressing hate for you,
> what does that say about you?

I don't hate him, Billy. I retaliate out of principle. There isn't
anyone here whom I hate. Even Andy I don't wish I'll upon, and I
dislike him pretty much.

--Bryan

On Feb 28, 7:15*pm, (Emma Chandler) wrote:
> I took 20mg zocor for a while. After almost a year I was feeling the
> effects when using the muscles. I took myself off the statin. I was
> plaed on 10mg Zetia and 10 mg zocor. This low dosage has worked so
> far(2yrs) I also take 2 omega fish oil.
> I tried 4 fish oil but cholestra went up so I backed off to 2
> capsules(1000mg ea.)

The fish oil was not having a bad impact on your cholesterol, but 2 or
3 is plenty, especially is you're taking care not to consume too much
Omega 6.

> This combo seems to be ok. The nurse told me that usually if someone
> gets side effects of muscle ache it's when their statin dosage is
> increased.

Supplemental CoQ is a good idea with statins. It has also been noted
that Vitamin E can interfere with the beneficial actions of CoQ, so
you shouldn't take any more Vit E than is contained in a daily
multivitamin.

> BJ

--Bryan

Steve Pope wrote:
> James Silverton > wrote:
>
>> I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
>> years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my
>> cholesterol levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my
>> cardiologist's suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed
>> statins with the the same result. Now a report has appeared blaming
>> statins for memory loss and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> I saw those reports also.
>
> The risk that statins might cause diabetes is nowhere near
> the risk that either beta-blockers or corticosteroids might cause
> diabetes. I would be much more concerned about the later two
> categories of meds.
>
> As per usual, the drug regulators operate in a very uneven fashion,
> dwelling on minor risks while ignoring major ones.

I am a diabetic. Not only did statins raise my blood sugar a lot and cause
memory problems and locked up muscles but they caused me to have dry skin,
badly peeling lips and hair loss. The hair is just now growing back but
luckily the other problems resolved pretty much right away after stopping
the meds.

Do I blame the beta blocker I was taking prior to getting diabetes for
giving me the diabetes? Probably. Given my family history I likely would
have gotten it at some point. But I got it sooner than my brother and my
dad.

On Feb 28, 6:03*pm, JeanineAlyse > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 2:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:>http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> > orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
>
> About ten years ago I had a pretty bad problem with high blood
> pressure, so the doctor has had me taking one Diovan pill a
> day...problem solved. *When looking for something at the pharmacy,
> just by chance one of the pharmacists pointed out Fish Oil gel-caps to
> me, saying just one a day immediately began to lower his cholesterol,
> and that after six weeks or so he's stayed well within the proper
> cholesterol range constantly. *I bought a bottle of them, and have
> since proved his advice works just as well for me.

1-3 fish oils a day is good.

> ...Picky

--Bryan

On Feb 28, 7:33*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 5:58*pm, BillyZoom > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 6:23*pm, Bryan > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 28, 4:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
>
> > > > > I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> > > > > years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> > > > > levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> > > > > suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> > > > > same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> > > > > and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> > > > >http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> > > > > orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jim Silverton
>
> > > > > Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
>
> > > > Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
> > > > cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
> > > > he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
> > > > lipid profile!
>
> > > > Like shots of pecan oil!
>
> > > > ;-)
>
> > > The failed nurse could show off all the stuff he learned--in his
> > > wasted education--about various medical conditions, while dismissing
> > > the value of knowledge about dietary lipids.
>
> > > > John Kuthe...
>
> > > --Bryan
>
> > Ouch! Hey, Kuthe - when your friends start expressing hate for you,
> > what does that say about you?
>
> I don't hate him, Billy. *I retaliate out of principle. *There isn't
> anyone here whom I hate. *Even Andy I don't wish I'll upon, and I
> dislike him pretty much.
>
> --Bryan

You retaliate out of childish stubbornness to be any better ethically.
I suppose you could call that a "principle", but hardly one to be
admired!

And you call my assessment of your behavior to be an obsession. What
is an obsession Bryan? Let's see:

https://www.google.com/search?q=obse...ient=firefox-a

"the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea,
image, desire, etc. "

"Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder
characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce uneasiness,
apprehension, fear, or worry, by repetitive behaviors aimed at
reducing the associated anxiety, or by a combination of such
obsessions and compulsions."

"a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea
or feeling"

....

Seems to fit the behavior! Whose fault is that? Mine?

John Kuthe...

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:45:02 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

>On Feb 28, 7:15*pm, (Emma Chandler) wrote:
>> I took 20mg zocor for a while. After almost a year I was feeling the
>> effects when using the muscles. I took myself off the statin. I was
>> plaed on 10mg Zetia and 10 mg zocor. This low dosage has worked so
>> far(2yrs) I also take 2 omega fish oil.
>> I tried 4 fish oil but cholestra went up so I backed off to 2
>> capsules(1000mg ea.)
>
>The fish oil was not having a bad impact on your cholesterol, but 2 or
>3 is plenty, especially is you're taking care not to consume too much
>Omega 6.
>
>> This combo seems to be ok. The nurse told me that usually if someone
>> gets side effects of muscle ache it's when their statin dosage is
>> increased.
>
>Supplemental CoQ is a good idea with statins. It has also been noted
>that Vitamin E can interfere with the beneficial actions of CoQ, so
>you shouldn't take any more Vit E than is contained in a daily
>multivitamin.
....
>--Bryan

What in the heck is CoQ? You mean Coenzyme Q10?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzym...eta_blocke rs

"However, there are still no conclusive data that support the role of
CoQ10 deficiency in the pathogenesis of statin-related myopathy."

I think you'd be better off listening to a real MD rather than
self-professed expert Bryan!

Here's one:

http://blogs.webmd.com/cholesterol-m...scle-pain.html

"While there is no definitive clinical evidence of any strategies that
can be used to prevent or reduce muscle injury, there is some evidence
that coenzyme Q10 may cause a significant reduction in statin-induced
pain. Since the response has been variable, the use of coenzyme Q 10
cannot be recommended with any degree of confidence."

John Kuthe...

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
>I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of years
>ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol levels,
>I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's suggestion I
>have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the same result. Now a
>report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss and raising blood sugar
>levels:
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...ry-blood-sugar


Not to mention they all destroy your liver.

Paul

On Feb 28, 7:48*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 7:33*pm, Bryan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 5:58*pm, BillyZoom > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 28, 6:23*pm, Bryan > wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 28, 4:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 28, 4:41*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I know this is OT but I don't know where else to post it. A couple of
> > > > > > years ago, after taking statins for many years to control my cholesterol
> > > > > > levels, I had to give up because of muscle pain. At my cardiologist's
> > > > > > suggestion I have tried ALL regularly prescribed statins with the the
> > > > > > same result. Now a report has appeared blaming statins for memory loss
> > > > > > and raising blood sugar levels:
>
> > > > > >http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...pular-choleste...
>
> > > > > > orhttp://tinyurl.com/6vmonl3
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Jim Silverton
>
> > > > > > Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
>
> > > > > Bryan can tell you all about how to reduce and eliminate all your
> > > > > cardiovascular problems just by low carbing it and learning everything
> > > > > he knows about the correct triglycerides and fats with the perfect
> > > > > lipid profile!
>
> > > > > Like shots of pecan oil!
>
> > > > > ;-)
>
> > > > The failed nurse could show off all the stuff he learned--in his
> > > > wasted education--about various medical conditions, while dismissing
> > > > the value of knowledge about dietary lipids.
>
> > > > > John Kuthe...
>
> > > > --Bryan
>
> > > Ouch! Hey, Kuthe - when your friends start expressing hate for you,
> > > what does that say about you?
>
> > I don't hate him, Billy. *I retaliate out of principle. *There isn't
> > anyone here whom I hate. *Even Andy I don't wish I'll upon, and I
> > dislike him pretty much.
>
> > --Bryan
>
> You retaliate out of childish stubbornness to be any better ethically.
> I suppose you could call that a "principle", but hardly one to be
> admired!
>
> And you call my assessment of your behavior to be an obsession. What
> is an obsession Bryan? Let's see:
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=obse...tf-8&aq=t&rls=...

OK, let's look at those:
>
> "the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea,
> image, desire, etc. "

I don't think that my body improvement paradigm dominates my
thoughts. I think about sex and politics more than diet, but don't
post much about politics--and very little about sex--to a "food" NG.
>
> "Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder
> characterized by intrusive thoughts *that produce uneasiness,
> apprehension, fear, or worry, by repetitive behaviors aimed at
> reducing the associated anxiety, or by a combination of such
> obsessions and compulsions."

I suffer no "uneasiness, apprehension, fear, or worry" about diet and
exercise.
>
> "a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea
> or feeling"

I'm not preoccupied with dietary fats, but I am very curious and
interested. Besides, it isn't an unreasonable thing. It's based on
medical research. I *am* persistent in trying to reduce my body fat,
increasing upper body muscle mass, and improving my blood lipid
ratios--and I'm doing it without statins, or even niacin. If I was
obsessed, I'd be feeling anxiety over the fact that I had 4 slices of
pizza for dinner, and am having a few lower carb cheap beers, but I'm
not anxious at all because I'm using those extra carbs as part of
resistance training, and this evening I followed the pizza with
strenuous weightlifting.
>
> ...
>
> Seems to fit the behavior! Whose fault is that? Mine?

I just refuted all three of your points/definitions. It's you who are
into a nutty stage of life. I'd welcome you making a case than any of
my health-related posts are incorrect, but when you demean them you
are showing yourself to be unconcerned with an important aspect of
public health. You just seem like you're interested in picking
fights, even if the side you argue has little merit. That's nutty.
>
> John Kuthe...

--Bryan

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:34:24 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:
....
> just refuted all three of your points/definitions.

No, you just rationalized a lot. The definrtions still hold and are
true of your obsessive behaviors.

>It's you who are
>into a nutty stage of life.

Shooting the messenger does not change the message.


>I'd welcome you making a case than any of
>my health-related posts are incorrect, but when you demean them you
>are showing yourself to be unconcerned with an important aspect of
>public health.

I never really challenged any or many of the things you claim.


>You just seem like you're interested in picking
>fights, even if the side you argue has little merit. That's nutty.

I just get sick of your no-fun babbling of things you found on the
Internet. If you read evidence based studies and reports most if not
all will doubt their own findings as that is good scientific research.
Claiming you know everything for certain the way you do is not good
science.

John Kuthe...

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:30:08 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:
....
>Also, HDL/LDL ratios can be greatly improved by high
>consumption of olive, pecan, avocado and almond, and some others as
>well.
>> --
>> Jim Silverton
>
>--Bryan

Any dosage recommendations on those magic HDL/LDL ratio improvers, Dr.
Bryan?

John Kuthe...

Julie Bove > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> The risk that statins might cause diabetes is nowhere near
>> the risk that either beta-blockers or corticosteroids might cause
>> diabetes. I would be much more concerned about the later two
>> categories of meds.

>I am a diabetic. Not only did statins raise my blood sugar a lot and cause
>memory problems and locked up muscles but they caused me to have dry skin,
>badly peeling lips and hair loss. The hair is just now growing back but
>luckily the other problems resolved pretty much right away after stopping
>the meds.

>Do I blame the beta blocker I was taking prior to getting diabetes for
>giving me the diabetes? Probably. Given my family history I likely would
>have gotten it at some point. But I got it sooner than my brother and my
>dad.

So you had three risk factors -- family history, statins, and beta-blockers.
Hard to assign blame among those three.

One factor in favor of prescribing statins is there are not (at least,
widely agreed-upon) alternatives for statins as a first-line cholesterol
control med. Whereas beta-blockers, there are plenty of alternative
hypertension meds. (Some other conditions, other than hypertension, that
require beta-blockers there are probably no alternatives.)

Still, I firmly believe that cowboy medicine is largely responsible
for the diabetes epidemic. I have yet to see any evidence to the
contrary.


Steve

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:47:15 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:



>
>I don't know of any side effects I am having as a result of taking
>statins, but I just had blood tests and my cholesterol level is down.

Seems like you are in the minority, but if it works for you, great. I
know a half dozen people that tried them and had pains in the legs,
back, etc. I tried them and after a few weeks, will never touch
another. It did nothing for my cholesterol, but I could barely walk.
I had better result eating pistachios at lunch.

Keep an eye out for the pains. They creep up on you over time.

On Feb 28, 8:05*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:45:02 -0800 (PST), Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Feb 28, 7:15*pm, (Emma Chandler) wrote:
> >> I took 20mg zocor for a while. After almost a year I was feeling the
> >> effects when using the muscles. I took myself off the statin. I was
> >> plaed on 10mg Zetia and 10 mg zocor. This low dosage has worked so
> >> far(2yrs) I also take 2 omega fish oil.
> >> I tried 4 fish oil but cholestra went up so I backed off to 2
> >> capsules(1000mg ea.)
>
> >The fish oil was not having a bad impact on your cholesterol, but 2 or
> >3 is plenty, especially is you're taking care not to consume too much
> >Omega 6.
>
> >> This combo seems to be ok. The nurse told me that usually if someone
> >> gets side effects of muscle ache it's when their statin dosage is
> >> increased.
>
> >Supplemental CoQ is a good idea with statins. *It has also been noted
> >that Vitamin E can interfere with the beneficial actions of CoQ, so
> >you shouldn't take any more Vit E than is contained in a daily
> >multivitamin.
> ...
> >--Bryan
>
> What in the heck is CoQ? You mean Coenzyme Q10?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzym..._statins_and_b...
>
> "However, there are still no conclusive data that support the role of
> CoQ10 deficiency in the pathogenesis of statin-related myopathy."
>
> I think you'd be better off listening to a real MD rather than
> self-professed expert Bryan!
>
> Here's one:
>
> http://blogs.webmd.com/cholesterol-m...tatins-and-mus...
>
> "While there is no definitive clinical evidence of any strategies that
> can be used to prevent or reduce muscle injury, there is some evidence
> that coenzyme Q10 *may cause a significant reduction in statin-induced
> pain. Since the response has been variable, the use of coenzyme Q 10
> cannot be recommended with any degree of confidence."

If I was *trying* to set a trap for you that I figured you'd fall
into, I couldn't have done better. I NEVER stated that CoQ
contributed to "a significant reduction in statin-induced pain." I
didn't say that. AGAIN, sloppy. The last thing a BSN nurse should be
is sloppy.

Coenzyme Q10 levels are depleted by statins. You thought only about
the narrowly focused theme of muscle pain, and I'm sure that one part
of the reason was that you were in a hurry to dispute what I wrote,
but the other reason is that you are not very--and maybe not at all--
familiar with CoQ10.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14695926

You may say that I am not qualified to give dietary advice, but you
SURE AS SHIT ARE NOT. Read this, failed nurse:
http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/coenzq10.html

CoQ10 deficiency can lead to congestive heart failure.

Once again, you have demonstrated that you are not qualified to work
in allied health.

>
> John Kuthe...

--Bryan

On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 03:56:36 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Still, I firmly believe that cowboy medicine is largely responsible
> for the diabetes epidemic. I have yet to see any evidence to the
> contrary.

I have no idea what you mean by cowboy medicine; but our love affair
with excess carbs and sweets plus the fact that the post war baby
boomers are aging also factor into the increased instances of
diabetes.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 03:56:36 +0000 (UTC),

>> Still, I firmly believe that cowboy medicine is largely responsible
>> for the diabetes epidemic. I have yet to see any evidence to the
>> contrary.

>I have no idea what you mean by cowboy medicine;

I mean "prescribe first, ask questions later".

>but our love affair
>with excess carbs and sweets plus the fact that the post war baby
>boomers are aging also factor into the increased instances of
>diabetes.

Maybe. It's very clear to me the beta blockers and steroids are responsible
for a fair fraction of the increase. Maybe diet/lifestyle is responsible
for more of it, but that link has been less proven. (Partly because
it's easier to isolate and study the effect of a medication in a clinical
trial or prospective study; whereas food and exercise are uncontrolled
variables.)


Steve

Target goals for general population:

Total Cholesterol <200
Triglycerides <150
Bad LDL <100
Good HDL >50 female (>40 male)

2007 immediately before, and immediately after, 2mos of controlled rigid
low carb diet, including ground flaxseed meal, my numbers, both
cholesterol and diabetes, were spectacular in their plunge, and quite
the topic of conversation around here.

2008 off the diet and climbing, I was offered Simvastatin which I
refused. (Total 200 Triglycerides 137.)

2010 off the diet and still climbing (Total 243 Triglycerides 159.)

2011 off the diet but...I did a 3day blitz of ground flaxseed meal right
before a 12hr fasting blood draw. (Total 184 Triglycerides 113.)

2012 (at same weight same meds same life) I did not do the 3day blitz
right before a 12hr fasting blood draw. (Total 236 Triglycerides 149.)

It's a numbers game and relatively easy to control with dietary
influences like ground flaxseed meal and low carb in general.

ps I was warned that weight lifting increases blood pressure and is not
the exercise of choice if yours is high.

On 28/02/2012 11:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> I don't know of any side effects I am having as a result of taking
>> statins, but I just had blood tests and my cholesterol level is down.
>
> Seems like you are in the minority, but if it works for you, great. I
> know a half dozen people that tried them and had pains in the legs,
> back, etc. I tried them and after a few weeks, will never touch
> another. It did nothing for my cholesterol, but I could barely walk.
> I had better result eating pistachios at lunch.
>
> Keep an eye out for the pains. They creep up on you over time.


The only pain I get in my legs is by my right angle, at the bottom of
the incision they they made to harvest veins. It doesn't hurt as much or
as often as it did in the first few months after my surgery. I have no
problems walking. I go to the Y 3-4 times a week and start off walking a
mile. Almost every afternoon I take by dog for a two mile walk/hike
through the woods.

My cholesterol level was not high before my problem last year, but since
I had a cardiac problem, my target level was lowered. I watch my fat
intake and eat whole wheat products, oatmeal a few times per week and
lots of . My cholesterol is about half what it was before.

I can't eat nuts. If I could, I would be munching on pistachios.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 20:02:33 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:
....
>Once again, you have demonstrated that you are not qualified to work
>in allied health.
>
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
>--Bryan

Since you relentlesly want to drag this down to personal terms, why is
it again if you are so smart that you work as a JANITOR and have for
many years now? In the time you have worked continuously as a janitor,
I have achieved 3 Bachelor's degrees in two very advanced technical
areas (enginerring and nursing) and worked 7 years for IBM in my
second career, while you continue to live primarily off your wife's
income?

John Kuthe...

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> The risk that statins might cause diabetes is nowhere near
>>> the risk that either beta-blockers or corticosteroids might cause
>>> diabetes. I would be much more concerned about the later two
>>> categories of meds.
>
>>I am a diabetic. Not only did statins raise my blood sugar a lot and
>>cause
>>memory problems and locked up muscles but they caused me to have dry skin,
>>badly peeling lips and hair loss. The hair is just now growing back but
>>luckily the other problems resolved pretty much right away after stopping
>>the meds.
>
>>Do I blame the beta blocker I was taking prior to getting diabetes for
>>giving me the diabetes? Probably. Given my family history I likely would
>>have gotten it at some point. But I got it sooner than my brother and my
>>dad.
>
> So you had three risk factors -- family history, statins, and
> beta-blockers.
> Hard to assign blame among those three.

The statins were recent. After I had diabetes. But since I am already
testing my blood sugar, I know for a FACT that they were raising my blood
sugar. On the statin? Numbers up over 400. Once I stopped the statin,
numbers dropped to around 80 to 140.
>
> One factor in favor of prescribing statins is there are not (at least,
> widely agreed-upon) alternatives for statins as a first-line cholesterol
> control med. Whereas beta-blockers, there are plenty of alternative
> hypertension meds. (Some other conditions, other than hypertension, that
> require beta-blockers there are probably no alternatives.)

At the time I was put on the beta blocker I was told it would have less side
effects than the other BP meds. Yeah, right.
>
> Still, I firmly believe that cowboy medicine is largely responsible
> for the diabetes epidemic. I have yet to see any evidence to the
> contrary.

I really have no clue but it is certainly rampant.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 03:56:36 +0000 (UTC),
> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>> Still, I firmly believe that cowboy medicine is largely responsible
>> for the diabetes epidemic. I have yet to see any evidence to the
>> contrary.
>
> I have no idea what you mean by cowboy medicine; but our love affair
> with excess carbs and sweets plus the fact that the post war baby
> boomers are aging also factor into the increased instances of
> diabetes.

I never was much of a sweet eater. I loved to bake. So I was constantly
making quick breads, cakes and cookies which I gave away. I also did
painted, filled chocolates. Also gave away. Or sold. I rarely ate any of
those things. Once in a while if I had a screwed up one, I might eat it.
But really I had little desire for them.

Did I eat excess carbs? Maybe. I was a vegetarian in those days. My meals
were usually beans and rice, or beans and pasta. Plenty of salads and other
veggies. I also ate a lot of popcorn. I ate a small amount of cheese and
once in a while, eggs. Very low fat diet. I was convinced that fat was the
root of all evil. I went through a period of time where I made muffins.
They had whole wheat flour, whole oats, lots of nuts and rehydrated dried
fruits of all kinds. They were mostly fruit and nuts with just enough
batter to hold them together. I never really liked muffins. But I felt
these were healthy. I used applesauce instead of oil and only egg whites.

I have seen several dieticians since those days. All but the last one told
me I needed to add fat to my diet. I get it now. I didn't really get it
then. The diet I would naturally choose is very low in fat. I have to make
an effort to add the fat. And I do.

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> sf > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 03:56:36 +0000 (UTC),
>
>>> Still, I firmly believe that cowboy medicine is largely responsible
>>> for the diabetes epidemic. I have yet to see any evidence to the
>>> contrary.
>
>>I have no idea what you mean by cowboy medicine;
>
> I mean "prescribe first, ask questions later".
>
>>but our love affair
>>with excess carbs and sweets plus the fact that the post war baby
>>boomers are aging also factor into the increased instances of
>>diabetes.
>
> Maybe. It's very clear to me the beta blockers and steroids are
> responsible
> for a fair fraction of the increase. Maybe diet/lifestyle is responsible
> for more of it, but that link has been less proven. (Partly because
> it's easier to isolate and study the effect of a medication in a clinical
> trial or prospective study; whereas food and exercise are uncontrolled
> variables.)

There are plenty of psych meds that cause diabetes as well. It is shocking
to me how liberally they are prescribed. I was put on three different
anti-depressants for the pain of fibromyalgia. Now those things might
decrease pain for some people but they didn't for me. One caused a heart
problem which was gone when I stopped it. The other two made me very sick
to my stomach, depressed and once caused a headache. I toughed it out for
maybe 2 weeks and then said, "No more!" I really hate the way things are
prescribed off-label. I was also put on Neurontin for the fibromyalgia.
Now there's a drug from hell! Maybe good if you have a seizure disorder but
if not? Stay away.

Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message


>> One factor in favor of prescribing statins is there are not (at least,
>> widely agreed-upon) alternatives for statins as a first-line cholesterol
>> control med. Whereas beta-blockers, there are plenty of alternative
>> hypertension meds. (Some other conditions, other than hypertension, that
>> require beta-blockers there are probably no alternatives.)

>At the time I was put on the beta blocker I was told it would have less side
>effects than the other BP meds. Yeah, right.

Similar with me. I have been on a beta-blocker for 14 years, but at a low
dose. Persons newly diagnosed with hypertension are not put on
beta-blockers. This is because of the diabetes risk. I took steps (this
involved some amount of effort) to not increase my beta-blocker dose.
Currently I am on two BP meds, but at the lowest therapeutic dose of
each -- 25 mg atenolol, and 30 mg nifedipine. I have tried at least three
others (that I can think of) each of which caused side effects.

I would resist any effort to increase the beta-blocker dose, probably
by trying the next new med down the list.

Steve

On Feb 28, 10:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 20:02:33 -0800 (PST), > wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >Once again, you have demonstrated that you are not qualified to work
> >in allied health.
>
> >> John Kuthe...
>
> >--Bryan
>
> Since you relentlesly want to drag this down to personal terms, why is
> it again if you are so smart that you work as a JANITOR and have for
> many years now? In the time you have worked continuously as a janitor,
> I have achieved 3 Bachelor's degrees in two very advanced technical
> areas (enginerring and nursing) and worked 7 years for IBM in my
> second career, while you continue to live primarily off your wife's
> income?
>
> John Kuthe...

On Feb 28, 10:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 20:02:33 -0800 (PST), > wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >Once again, you have demonstrated that you are not qualified to work
> >in allied health.
>
> >> John Kuthe...
>
> >--Bryan
>
> Since you relentlesly want to drag this down to personal terms,

You dragged it into the personal when you "diagnosed" me as having a
psychiatric disorder.

> why is it again if you are so smart that you work as a JANITOR and have for
> many years now?

I'm paid pretty darned well for a building custodian, and I enjoy my
job nearly all the time. It's not for lack of smart.

> In the time you have worked continuously as a janitor,
> I have achieved 3 Bachelor's degrees in two very advanced technical
> areas (enginerring and nursing) and worked 7 years for IBM in my
> second career, while you continue to live primarily off your wife's
> income?

She does make more money than me. I made the overwhelming majority of
the money the first seven years we were together. She was interested
in a career that required graduate school, and we put our eggs into
that basket. The school I went to was primarily because I'm
interested in knowing things. I might not have a lot of earning
potential, but I've never been unable to get a job. I have paid off
every cent of student debt. You know, that debt that can't be
discharged by bankruptcy.

Every one of your posts that demean my interest in the details of
health has made you less attractive to any employer who bothers to
Google you. You screwed up once by posting something you shouldn't
have on the internet, and you paid pretty dearly. Now, you're doing
it again. Through nothing but your obnoxious behavior on Usenet,
you've greatly lessened the value of that education. You're smart
enough to know all this, but I guess maybe you think it's to late to
make any difference.

I'll be posting some more diet and supplement stuff soon, and give you
another opportunity to play psychiatrist, and to show the world your
disdain for knowledge.
>
> John Kuthe...

--Bryan

On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 04:54:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

>On Feb 28, 10:45*pm, John Kuthe > wrote:
....
>> In the time you have worked continuously as a janitor,
>> I have achieved 3 Bachelor's degrees in two very advanced technical
>> areas (enginerring and nursing) and worked 7 years for IBM in my
>> second career, while you continue to live primarily off your wife's
>> income?
>
>She does make more money than me. I made the overwhelming majority of
>the money the first seven years we were together. She was interested
>in a career that required graduate school, and we put our eggs into
>that basket. The school I went to was primarily because I'm
>interested in knowing things. I might not have a lot of earning
>potential, but I've never been unable to get a job. I have paid off
>every cent of student debt. You know, that debt that can't be
>discharged by bankruptcy.

Yes I know that, but you did not answer my question. If you are so
smart, why do you have NO college degrees? I've got 3 and you've got
ZERO! You didn't even finish high scool, and had to get a GED. As I
told a friend's daughter at the Super Bowl party I went to "High
school is not that darned hard!" (and she laughed!)

Stick to the question! Or mnaybe that's why you have no college
degrees: inability to stay on task!

John Kuthe...

On 1/03/2012 1:23 AM, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 04:54:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> > wrote:
>
>> On Feb 28, 10:45 pm, John > wrote:
> ....
>>> In the time you have worked continuously as a janitor,
>>> I have achieved 3 Bachelor's degrees in two very advanced technical
>>> areas (enginerring and nursing) and worked 7 years for IBM in my
>>> second career, while you continue to live primarily off your wife's
>>> income?
>>
>> She does make more money than me. I made the overwhelming majority of
>> the money the first seven years we were together. She was interested
>> in a career that required graduate school, and we put our eggs into
>> that basket. The school I went to was primarily because I'm
>> interested in knowing things. I might not have a lot of earning
>> potential, but I've never been unable to get a job. I have paid off
>> every cent of student debt. You know, that debt that can't be
>> discharged by bankruptcy.
>
> Yes I know that, but you did not answer my question. If you are so
> smart, why do you have NO college degrees? I've got 3 and you've got
> ZERO! You didn't even finish high scool, and had to get a GED. As I
> told a friend's daughter at the Super Bowl party I went to "High
> school is not that darned hard!" (and she laughed!)
>
> Stick to the question! Or mnaybe that's why you have no college
> degrees: inability to stay on task!
>
> John Kuthe...

I know many smart people who have no college degrees. They all have one
thing you seem to lack and that is the ability to work in their chosen
field. The only person here who has an inability to stay on task is you
and you keep on reinforcing that with your persistent claim to have 3
degrees! I can claim 3 degrees also but the difference is I have always
worked in a field relevant to my degrees and, even now that I am semi
retired, continue to work in that same field.

That glass house you live in, John, has a lot of broken windows. You
should fix them up first before posting further!


--

Krypsis