On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:19:45 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> Thanks Max, I could not remember. In '77 I was not sure what server what
> was on. Usenet was so new then. We were all in academics then. What a
> mess.

We had many servers that accessed the internet in those days
and none of them were easy. The web servers at my college
were named after planets. Bleech! It was a pain in the
neither region for any student who didn't use a computer as
an integral part of their course. Now the college library
has a great search engine, but if you go to the computer lab
to use a computer for simple word processing - it's a
daunting situation. Not only do you wait in line forever,
once you get a computer you can't figure out how to do the
simplest things you can do at home w/o thinking about it.

Remember the Spiders and Web Crawlers that we had to use to
get information back in the dark ages? Now they are used by
information gatherers like Google, big business and school
districts and we don't have to bother with them. It
certainly wasn't the internet as we know it now... before
IP/TCP. In those days, the "web" was supposed to be a way
for university students to communicate with each other over
academic matters, but students like *you* spun it away from
strict academic purposes.

It's hard to believe how much the internet has changed from
'77 to '87 to now!


sf
kowtowing to Michael, the pioneer


sf

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:26:41 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> "Max Hauser" > wrote in
> :

> > Hi notbob. No, prior to late 1986, the group was called net.cooks.
> > Here is a sample from 1983, as currently archived by Google:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/5zbd2
> >
> > I don't know how much of the associated thread was archived. (The H-P
> > "Notes" posting tool obscured the threading.)
>
> OMG, And I thought this place was here forever. I could have sworn this
> place was here forever. I *know* I read it before 1980. I did it from my
> University Account. Well whatever, as long as the fine people are still
> here, I guess it does not matter.
>
So, you're not as old as you think you are?

sf

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:16:13 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> RFC has been around forever. I think Moosemeat has been here since the
> beginning. I'm not sure. I have read it that many years, I read it a few
> years and stopped. I picked it up again and stopped. I've been reading it
> about another 5 years.

What were your other screen names?

sf

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:16:13 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> RFC has been around forever. I think Moosemeat has been here since the
> beginning. I'm not sure. I have read it that many years, I read it a few
> years and stopped. I picked it up again and stopped. I've been reading it
> about another 5 years.

What were your other screen names?

sf

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:03:16 GMT, Puester
> > wrote:
>
>
>> I have begun almost exclusively to grate garlic with my
>> microplane grater. It's easier to clean than a press
>> and doesn't waste as much.
>
>
> How do you protect your fingers and use all of the garlic?
>
> sf


Work very carefully and even more carefully when you get near
the last 1/4 inch. When it gets too small to hold onto, throw
the rest away. The microplane makes a terrible nailfile.
Don't ask me how I kow....

gloria p

>Puester writes:
>
>>sf wrote:
>>>Puester wrote:
>>>
>>> I have begun almost exclusively to grate garlic with my
>>> microplane grater. It's easier to clean than a press
>>> and doesn't waste as much.
>>
>>
>> How do you protect your fingers and use all of the garlic?
>
>
>Work very carefully and even more carefully when you get near
>the last 1/4 inch. When it gets too small to hold onto, throw
>the rest away. The microplane makes a terrible nailfile.
>Don't ask me how I kow....

Why can't yoose simply smack garlic with the side of a knife?!?!?


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

PENMART01 wrote:
>>Puester writes:
>>
>>
>>>sf wrote:
>>>
>>>>Puester wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I have begun almost exclusively to grate garlic with my
>>>>microplane grater. It's easier to clean than a press
>>>>and doesn't waste as much.
>>>
>>>
>>>How do you protect your fingers and use all of the garlic?
>>
>>
>>Work very carefully and even more carefully when you get near
>>the last 1/4 inch. When it gets too small to hold onto, throw
>>the rest away. The microplane makes a terrible nailfile.
>>Don't ask me how I kow....
>
>
> Why can't yoose simply smack garlic with the side of a knife?!?!?
>
>


I must be doing something wrong because when I smack it with the knife
the garlic just gets flattened, not minced.

gloria p

"Puester" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > Why can't yoose simply smack garlic with the side of a knife?!?!?
> >
> I must be doing something wrong because when I smack it with the knife
> the garlic just gets flattened, not minced.

Smash it, then mince with the knife. If you want to get a really
nice garlic paste from the resulting pile of bits, sprinkle a little
kosher salt on it and then drag the side of a chef's knife (with
the edge on the work surface and trailing) across it to crush
and smear the garlic bits. Then you just scoop up the resulting thin
smear of juicy garlic goodness with the knife, and plop it into
whatever you want!

I like the microplane for some things, but there's really not a
whole lot you can't do with a good knife...

Bob M.

In article >,
wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:18:47 -0800, (Dan
> Abel) wrote:
>
> > 20 minutes to Santa Rosa? Please let me know when you are going to be up
> > this way. I'll stay off the roads! It's 50 miles, so in 20 minutes
> > that's 150mph!
>
>
> Whoops! My bad... San Rafael!!!!!
>
> But you'd be well advised to stay off the roads anyway,
> because I drive like a bat out of Hell.


As long as you don't go north of San Rafael, I don't need to worry,
because I very seldom drive down that way. Of course, now that they have
TJs elsewhere, you don't need to come up here anyway!


I know that there's been a TJs in Santa Rosa for a long time, but have no
idea how long. I don't like buying groceries far away, so until they put
in the TJs a few blocks from my house, I didn't shop there.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

sf wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > I remember buying a bottle of
> > wine, liking it, going back the *next day* and finding them
> > out of it forever.
>
> You can say that again. I bought the BEST bottle of Spanish
> red at TJs and never was able to find it again there or in
> any other wine/liquor shop (we had quite a few specialy wine
> shops in those days).

They carried Duc de Raynaud champagne for about a month
in the early 1980s until their stock ran out. At $3.99 per
bottle it was better than any other champagne I've ever tasted
at uner 10 times the price. I've had better champagnes at
$40 per bottle but that's not something I do even every year.
That month I was splitting a bottle of amazing champagne
with someone every other day and who would ever know I
wasn't spending a fortune.

I've never seen Duc de Raynaud champagne again. That's
how TJ used to work. Same as your Spanish red example.

> Puester writes:
>
>PENMART01 wrote:
>>>Puester writes:
>>>>sf wrote:
>>>>>Puester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>I have begun almost exclusively to grate garlic with my
>>>>>microplane grater. It's easier to clean than a press
>>>>>and doesn't waste as much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How do you protect your fingers and use all of the garlic?
>>>
>>>
>>>Work very carefully and even more carefully when you get near
>>>the last 1/4 inch. When it gets too small to hold onto, throw
>>>the rest away. The microplane makes a terrible nailfile.
>>>Don't ask me how I kow....
>>
>>
>> Why can't yoose simply smack garlic with the side of a knife?!?!?
>
>I must be doing something wrong because when I smack it with the knife
>the garlic just gets flattened, not minced.

You need to either use a heavier knife or lay the blade on the clove and rap
the flat of the blade with the heel of your hand.

Btw, garlic doesn't get minced with a press or plane either... you end up with
smushed, just like with the side of a knife.... "minced" requires slicing each
clove into many strips and then cutting cross wise, ending up with tiny
individual cube-like pieces, without any portion thereof smushed.

A garlic press is a completely useless gizmo... ownership thereof indicative of
those who for personal psychiatric reasons have an aversion to touching food,
meaning they can't/don't actually cook.



---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Bob Myers wrote:

> I like the microplane for some things, but there's really not a
> whole lot you can't do with a good knife...
>

And a bit of skill. ;->


jim

Bob Myers wrote:

> I like the microplane for some things, but there's really not a
> whole lot you can't do with a good knife...
>

And a bit of skill. ;->


jim

"JimLane" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Myers wrote:
>
> > I like the microplane for some things, but there's really not a
> > whole lot you can't do with a good knife...
> >
>
> And a bit of skill. ;->

Well, OK, but I for one think that time developing one's
knife skills in the kitchen is time well spent. I can't peel
apples like Hiroyuki Sakai yet, but it's a goal...:-)

Bob M.

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> A garlic press is a completely useless gizmo... ownership thereof
> indicative of
> those who for personal psychiatric reasons have an aversion to touching
> food,
> meaning they can't/don't actually cook.
>
>
>
> ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
> *********
> "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
> Sheldon
> ````````````

ROTFLMAO!

Dimitri

Bob Myers wrote:
> "JimLane" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Bob Myers wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I like the microplane for some things, but there's really not a
>>>whole lot you can't do with a good knife...
>>>
>>
>>And a bit of skill. ;->
>
>
> Well, OK, but I for one think that time developing one's
> knife skills in the kitchen is time well spent. I can't peel
> apples like Hiroyuki Sakai yet, but it's a goal...:-)
>
> Bob M.
>
>

And the point is a good knife without any skill, might as well be a
garlic crusher (in terms of this thread).

I definitely agree that developing knife skills is desirable, but, I
hazard a guess, that the vast majority of the US could care less.


jim

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:13:14 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> I was reading it at the university in
> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.

Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
something like that?

sf

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:17:15 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:


> I just smash it with a big knife. I love the stuff.
>
Have you tried the rubber plumber's mallet that Julia
suggested for pounding chicken breasts?

sf

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:46:52 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> lonerganm

Loner.... what does the rest of it mean?

sf

sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:13:14 GMT, Dog3 >
>wrote:
>
>> I was reading it at the university in
>> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.
>
>Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
>something like that?
>
>sf

You seem to forget that the military was heavily involved in ARPA and
ARPANET.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:13:14 GMT, Dog3 >
>wrote:
>
>> I was reading it at the university in
>> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.
>
>Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
>something like that?
>
>sf

You seem to forget that the military was heavily involved in ARPA and
ARPANET.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

"Dog3" > wrote in message
...
> sf > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:13:14 GMT, Dog3 >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was reading it at the university in
>>> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.
>>
>> Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
>> something like that?
>>
>> sf
>>
>
> I am not sure, but I'm almost positive he was here. I may be wrong, it
> was
> a long time ago.
>
> Michael

I wish he were here nowadays. He took kidding so well.

Dora

"Dog3" > wrote in message
...
> sf > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:13:14 GMT, Dog3 >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was reading it at the university in
>>> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.
>>
>> Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
>> something like that?
>>
>> sf
>>
>
> I am not sure, but I'm almost positive he was here. I may be wrong, it
> was
> a long time ago.
>
> Michael

I wish he were here nowadays. He took kidding so well.

Dora

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:52:52 -0500, "limey"
> wrote:

>
> "Dog3" > wrote in message
> ...
> > sf > wrote in
> > :
> >
> >> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:13:14 GMT, Dog3 >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I was reading it at the university in
> >>> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.
> >>
> >> Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
> >> something like that?
> >>
> >> sf
> >>
> >
> > I am not sure, but I'm almost positive he was here. I may be wrong, it
> > was
> > a long time ago.
> >
> > Michael
>
> I wish he were here nowadays. He took kidding so well.
>
He has some serious health problems. I'm sure he'll be back
here slinging zingers and mooseisms as soon as he's able.

sf

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 03:22:55 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> sf > wrote in
> :
>
> > On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:46:52 GMT, Dog3 >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> lonerganm
> >
> > Loner.... what does the rest of it mean?
> >
> > sf
> >
>
> It means Michael Lonergan


AHA, last name first.

sf

On Sat 08 Jan 2005 12:55:02a, Dog3 tittered and giggled, and giggled and
tittered, and finally blurted out...

> sf > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 03:22:55 GMT, Dog3 > wrote:
>>
>>> sf > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>> > On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:46:52 GMT, Dog3 > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> lonerganm
>>> >
>>> > Loner.... what does the rest of it mean?
>>> >
>>> > sf
>>> >
>>>
>>> It means Michael Lonergan
>>
>>
>> AHA, last name first.
>>
>> sf
>>
>
> It is Irish ya' know. Gawd, I'm freezing and it is snowing outside. All
> I want to do is bundle up and snug with Missy and Shelly. AND it is
> almost 2am. UGH!
>
> Michael <- Thinking brie and crackers for a snack
>

Thinking you should go to bed, Michael! You need to take better care of
yourself.

Wayne

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 07:55:02 GMT, Dog3 >
wrote:

> Thinking brie and crackers for a snack


Bake your brie (or microwave it carefully) for a warm snack!



sf

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:38:53 -0500, The Cook
> wrote:

> You seem to forget that the military was heavily involved in ARPA and
> ARPANET.
> --
> Susan N.

Hmmm. That's a possibility... but I'm unclear how usenet
(rec.food.cooking in particular) could have been an integral
part of the internet (ARPA or ARPANET) before 1981. In
those days, REC meant "Request For Comments", so
Rec.Food.Cooking might have been on a bulletin board or
maybe two.

sf

"sf" wrote in message
>>
>> "Dog3" wrote in message

>> >> > sf wrote:
>> >
Dog3 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I was reading it at the university in
>> >>> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.
>> >>
>> >> Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
>> >> something like that?
>> >>
>> >> sf
>> >>
>> >
>> > I am not sure, but I'm almost positive he was here. I may be wrong,
>> it
>> > was
>> > a long time ago.
>> >
>> > Michael
>>
>> I wish he were here nowadays. He took kidding so well.
>>
> He has some serious health problems. I'm sure he'll be back
> here slinging zingers and mooseisms as soon as he's able.
>
> sf

I'm sorry to hear that. Here's hoping he's soon better and razzing us once
again.

Dora

"sf" wrote in message
>>
>> "Dog3" wrote in message

>> >> > sf wrote:
>> >
Dog3 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I was reading it at the university in
>> >>> the late 70s. Moosemeat was online then.
>> >>
>> >> Are you serious??? Moosemeat? Was he a professor or
>> >> something like that?
>> >>
>> >> sf
>> >>
>> >
>> > I am not sure, but I'm almost positive he was here. I may be wrong,
>> it
>> > was
>> > a long time ago.
>> >
>> > Michael
>>
>> I wish he were here nowadays. He took kidding so well.
>>
> He has some serious health problems. I'm sure he'll be back
> here slinging zingers and mooseisms as soon as he's able.
>
> sf

I'm sorry to hear that. Here's hoping he's soon better and razzing us once
again.

Dora

sf > wrote:

>Hmmm. That's a possibility... but I'm unclear how usenet
>(rec.food.cooking in particular) could have been an integral
>part of the internet (ARPA or ARPANET) before 1981. In
>those days, REC meant "Request For Comments", so
>Rec.Food.Cooking might have been on a bulletin board or
>maybe two.

In those days, news propogated by UUCP (unix-to-unix copy
protocol) rather than NNTP (netnews transfer protocol),
and usually went over phonelines rather than the main
ARPANET trunks. Email was often handled this way as well.
I would say it was not until the mid-80's that there was
enough excess bandwidth on the ARPANET that people felt
it was reasonable to send news over it.

I do not recall if there was a "net.cooking" group back
before the great divide, maybe someone here can remember.

Steve

"Steve Pope" in ...
> I do not recall if there was a "net.cooking" group back
> before the great divide, maybe someone here can remember.
>

Hi Steve. See recent posting "RFC genesis, garlic presses (long)." Also
earlier items in the Trader Joe's thread, if you have the patience.

-- Max

"sf" in ...
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:38:53 -0500, The Cook
> > wrote:
>
>> You seem to forget that the military was heavily involved
>> in ARPA and ARPANET.
>> --
>> Susan N.

For some reason the article quoted above is not on my usual newsreader, but
I'll mention that the statement is true, and is also the basis of an awful
lot of historical misconception and mythology that sprange up in very recent
years among people who had no contact with the Internet and its origins.
(Some people even confuse it with the old military hardened communications
nets, AUTOVON/AUTODIN.)

> Hmmm. That's a possibility... but I'm unclear how usenet
> (rec.food.cooking in particular) could have been an integral
> part of the internet (ARPA or ARPANET) before 1981. In
> those days, [RFC meant "Request For Comments" ...
> Rec.Food.Cooking might have been on a bulletin board or
> maybe two.
>
> sf

Yes, RFC, as in RFC1855 -- as important as ever, if not more so. Check it
out if you haven't done so already, it's one of the most widely read
documents on the Internet. (Originally circulated periodically on Usenet,
starting late 1982, and eventually promoted to a standard Internet document,
minus its most earthy piece of advice.)

But please check out historical material I posted here a few days ago, just
now mentioned on another posting to this thread. It should be on
google.groups.com at least. "RFC" in the sense of this newsgroup name came
into use in late 1986 as part of the Great Renaming and was the newsgroup
formerly known as net.cooks. I was following it before and after the
renaming and I have some private archives also. (I wonder if the early
history is, or could be, added to the FAQ?)

-- Max

"Max Hauser" in ...
> It should be on google.groups.com at least.

Sorry! groups.google.com

Max Hauser > wrote:

> (I wonder if the early
> history is, or could be, added to the FAQ?)

Would you be interested in writing a concise synopsis (more concise than
your 5th January posting)? I, for one, would be very grateful.

Victor

Max Hauser > wrote:

> (I wonder if the early
> history is, or could be, added to the FAQ?)

Would you be interested in writing a concise synopsis (more concise than
your 5th January posting)? I, for one, would be very grateful.

Victor

"Victor Sack" in .. .
>
> Would you be interested in writing a concise synopsis
> (more concise than your 5th January posting)? I, for
> one, would be very grateful.
>
> Victor

Happy to do so, to the extent I have information.

I did this for another newsgroup's FAQ, where I had participated in the
group's formation. That is not true of RFC or net.cooks, and the historical
info I have is not comprehensive, but I'll be happy to offer it if useful.
Will follow up by email.

Cheers -- Max Hauser

"Victor Sack" in .. .
>
> Would you be interested in writing a concise synopsis
> (more concise than your 5th January posting)? I, for
> one, would be very grateful.
>
> Victor

Happy to do so, to the extent I have information.

I did this for another newsgroup's FAQ, where I had participated in the
group's formation. That is not true of RFC or net.cooks, and the historical
info I have is not comprehensive, but I'll be happy to offer it if useful.
Will follow up by email.

Cheers -- Max Hauser

Max Hauser > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" in ...

>> I do not recall if there was a "net.cooking" group back
>> before the great divide, maybe someone here can remember.

>Hi Steve. See recent posting "RFC genesis, garlic presses
>(long)." Also earlier items in the Trader Joe's thread, if
>you have the patience.

Right. (Laugh.)

I come to this newsgroup for the first time in months, and
you guys are already talking about me.

Steve

Max Hauser > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" in ...

>> I do not recall if there was a "net.cooking" group back
>> before the great divide, maybe someone here can remember.

>Hi Steve. See recent posting "RFC genesis, garlic presses
>(long)." Also earlier items in the Trader Joe's thread, if
>you have the patience.

Right. (Laugh.)

I come to this newsgroup for the first time in months, and
you guys are already talking about me.

Steve