Yesterday, I made beef stroganoff. When the beef was nice and tender,
I folded in sour cream and simmered it no more. Then I thought, I
better get it even more tender. I was bringing some of it over to my
uncle who has dentures, and will not eat beef unless it is extremely
tender. So I simmered it another 40 minutes or so. It was very
tender, but the sauce had started to separate. Not a professional
appearance, but still very tasty and edible.
I remember reading Judy Haffner's post yesterday, where she mentioned
that she mixed flour and sour cream together and added to the
stroganoff. Did she simmer it further?
Then I remembered that I had made sour cream dishes in the distant
past where I simmered them and they did not separate. Why? I think
the reason was that I mixed the sour cream and flour together, then
added to the sauce and simmered for a good 15 minutes.
Yeah. Chicken Paprikash. I went to one of my cook books, and found
the recipe for Chicken Paprikash. For those of you who don't know, CP
is a chicken stew flavored with Paprika and sour cream. In the recipe
before me, it has this to say concerning simmering with sour cream:
'Blend together the flour(3Tbsp.) and sour cream(1 1/2 cups). Add to
chicken mixture and simmer until chicken is tender about 15 minutes
more.'
This recipe was from the Hungarian Olympic culinary team during the
Frankfurt cooking competition in 1972.
I think that mixing sour cream and flour together will keep sauce from
separating even when simmering it. They also added heavy cream to the
above dish.

On Mar 5, 12:53*pm, A Moose in Love >
wrote:
> Yesterday, I made beef stroganoff. *When the beef was nice and tender,
> I folded in sour cream and simmered it no more. *Then I thought, I
> better get it even more tender. *I was bringing some of it over to my
> uncle who has dentures, and will not eat beef unless it is extremely
> tender. *So I simmered it another 40 minutes or so. *It was very
> tender, but the sauce had started to separate. *Not a professional
> appearance, but still very tasty and edible.
> I remember reading Judy Haffner's post yesterday, where she mentioned
> that she mixed flour and sour cream together and added to the
> stroganoff. *Did she simmer it further?
> Then I remembered that I had made sour cream dishes in the distant
> past where I simmered them and they did not separate. *Why? *I think
> the reason was that I mixed the sour cream and flour together, then
> added to the sauce and simmered for a good 15 minutes.

I usually add flour to my sauce to thicken it while it simmers, and I
let it simmer a long time. I add the sour cream at the end, let it
heat up, and then consider it done.

Sometimes I do the meat and sauce in the crock pot. I still wait until
the very end to add the sour cream.

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 12:53:36 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> wrote:

> Yesterday, I made beef stroganoff. When the beef was nice and tender,
> I folded in sour cream and simmered it no more. Then I thought, I
> better get it even more tender. I was bringing some of it over to my
> uncle who has dentures, and will not eat beef unless it is extremely
> tender. So I simmered it another 40 minutes or so. It was very
> tender, but the sauce had started to separate. Not a professional
> appearance, but still very tasty and edible.
> I remember reading Judy Haffner's post yesterday, where she mentioned
> that she mixed flour and sour cream together and added to the
> stroganoff. Did she simmer it further?

She should have or else someone here would be complaining about a
"raw" flour flavor (something I have yet to taste).

> Then I remembered that I had made sour cream dishes in the distant
> past where I simmered them and they did not separate. Why? I think
> the reason was that I mixed the sour cream and flour together, then
> added to the sauce and simmered for a good 15 minutes.
> Yeah. Chicken Paprikash. I went to one of my cook books, and found
> the recipe for Chicken Paprikash. For those of you who don't know, CP
> is a chicken stew flavored with Paprika and sour cream. In the recipe
> before me, it has this to say concerning simmering with sour cream:
> 'Blend together the flour(3Tbsp.) and sour cream(1 1/2 cups). Add to
> chicken mixture and simmer until chicken is tender about 15 minutes
> more.'
> This recipe was from the Hungarian Olympic culinary team during the
> Frankfurt cooking competition in 1972.
> I think that mixing sour cream and flour together will keep sauce from
> separating even when simmering it. They also added heavy cream to the
> above dish.

Before you add flour, try adding some water. I've noticed that when a
sauce separates, it has cooked too long and too much moisture has
evaporated... what you're looking at is really fat, not water floating
on the top so add some H2O and stir. That should bring it back
together again without adding any flour.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 15:11:57 -0800 (PST), "
> wrote:

> On Mar 5, 12:53*pm, A Moose in Love >
> wrote:
> > Yesterday, I made beef stroganoff. *When the beef was nice and tender,
> > I folded in sour cream and simmered it no more. *Then I thought, I
> > better get it even more tender. *I was bringing some of it over to my
> > uncle who has dentures, and will not eat beef unless it is extremely
> > tender. *So I simmered it another 40 minutes or so. *It was very
> > tender, but the sauce had started to separate. *Not a professional
> > appearance, but still very tasty and edible.
> > I remember reading Judy Haffner's post yesterday, where she mentioned
> > that she mixed flour and sour cream together and added to the
> > stroganoff. *Did she simmer it further?
> > Then I remembered that I had made sour cream dishes in the distant
> > past where I simmered them and they did not separate. *Why? *I think
> > the reason was that I mixed the sour cream and flour together, then
> > added to the sauce and simmered for a good 15 minutes.
>
> I usually add flour to my sauce to thicken it while it simmers, and I
> let it simmer a long time. I add the sour cream at the end, let it
> heat up, and then consider it done.
>
> Sometimes I do the meat and sauce in the crock pot. I still wait until
> the very end to add the sour cream.

Agreed about *when* to add sour cream... or heavy cream for that
matter. I know you can boil heavy cream and it won't curdle. Not
sure how (full fat) sour cream handles, but I'd think it would be just
as stable.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 3/6/2012 1:58 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 15:11:57 -0800 (PST), "
> > wrote:
>
>> On Mar 5, 12:53 pm, A Moose in >
>> wrote:
>>> Yesterday, I made beef stroganoff. When the beef was nice and tender,
>>> I folded in sour cream and simmered it no more. Then I thought, I
>>> better get it even more tender. I was bringing some of it over to my
>>> uncle who has dentures, and will not eat beef unless it is extremely
>>> tender. So I simmered it another 40 minutes or so. It was very
>>> tender, but the sauce had started to separate. Not a professional
>>> appearance, but still very tasty and edible.
>>> I remember reading Judy Haffner's post yesterday, where she mentioned
>>> that she mixed flour and sour cream together and added to the
>>> stroganoff. Did she simmer it further?
>>> Then I remembered that I had made sour cream dishes in the distant
>>> past where I simmered them and they did not separate. Why? I think
>>> the reason was that I mixed the sour cream and flour together, then
>>> added to the sauce and simmered for a good 15 minutes.
>>
>> I usually add flour to my sauce to thicken it while it simmers, and I
>> let it simmer a long time. I add the sour cream at the end, let it
>> heat up, and then consider it done.
>>
>> Sometimes I do the meat and sauce in the crock pot. I still wait until
>> the very end to add the sour cream.
>
> Agreed about *when* to add sour cream... or heavy cream for that
> matter. I know you can boil heavy cream and it won't curdle. Not
> sure how (full fat) sour cream handles, but I'd think it would be just
> as stable.
>

In the days when I could use full fat sour cream, we were instructed to
simmer not boil and we almost always mixed the cream with a teaspoonful
of flour. This flour mix and careful simmering at the end of cooking
works even for fat-free sour cream. Indian food, perforce made with
fat-free yoghurt also benefits from its being mixed with flour and can
be cooked for a long time without separation.


--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On 3/6/2012 1:56 PM, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 12:53:36 -0800 (PST), A Moose in Love
> > wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, I made beef stroganoff. When the beef was nice and tender,
>> I folded in sour cream and simmered it no more. Then I thought, I
>> better get it even more tender. I was bringing some of it over to my
>> uncle who has dentures, and will not eat beef unless it is extremely
>> tender. So I simmered it another 40 minutes or so. It was very
>> tender, but the sauce had started to separate. Not a professional
>> appearance, but still very tasty and edible.
>> I remember reading Judy Haffner's post yesterday, where she mentioned
>> that she mixed flour and sour cream together and added to the
>> stroganoff. Did she simmer it further?
>
> She should have or else someone here would be complaining about a
> "raw" flour flavor (something I have yet to taste).
>
>> Then I remembered that I had made sour cream dishes in the distant
>> past where I simmered them and they did not separate. Why? I think
>> the reason was that I mixed the sour cream and flour together, then
>> added to the sauce and simmered for a good 15 minutes.
>> Yeah. Chicken Paprikash. I went to one of my cook books, and found
>> the recipe for Chicken Paprikash. For those of you who don't know, CP
>> is a chicken stew flavored with Paprika and sour cream. In the recipe
>> before me, it has this to say concerning simmering with sour cream:
>> 'Blend together the flour(3Tbsp.) and sour cream(1 1/2 cups). Add to
>> chicken mixture and simmer until chicken is tender about 15 minutes
>> more.'
>> This recipe was from the Hungarian Olympic culinary team during the
>> Frankfurt cooking competition in 1972.
>> I think that mixing sour cream and flour together will keep sauce from
>> separating even when simmering it. They also added heavy cream to the
>> above dish.
>
> Before you add flour, try adding some water. I've noticed that when a
> sauce separates, it has cooked too long and too much moisture has
> evaporated... what you're looking at is really fat, not water floating
> on the top so add some H2O and stir. That should bring it back
> together again without adding any flour.
>
I'm not sure how your method can work. Fat is not soluble in water and
would rise to the top again. I don't think adding flour to a stew is as
effective as combining it with the cream before addition.

--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 14:17:46 -0500, James Silverton
> wrote:

> On 3/6/2012 1:58 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 15:11:57 -0800 (PST), "
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I usually add flour to my sauce to thicken it while it simmers, and I
> >> let it simmer a long time. I add the sour cream at the end, let it
> >> heat up, and then consider it done.
> >>
> >> Sometimes I do the meat and sauce in the crock pot. I still wait until
> >> the very end to add the sour cream.
> >
> > Agreed about *when* to add sour cream... or heavy cream for that
> > matter. I know you can boil heavy cream and it won't curdle. Not
> > sure how (full fat) sour cream handles, but I'd think it would be just
> > as stable.
> >
>
> In the days when I could use full fat sour cream, we were instructed to
> simmer not boil and we almost always mixed the cream with a teaspoonful
> of flour. This flour mix and careful simmering at the end of cooking
> works even for fat-free sour cream. Indian food, perforce made with
> fat-free yoghurt also benefits from its being mixed with flour and can
> be cooked for a long time without separation.

Maybe that's why I don't cook with sour cream or yogurt very often.
No need to add extra calories and in these enlightened times, gluten.
I finish one or two sauces with sour cream, bake with yogurt every so
often (it's a good replacement for butter) and that's about it. Not a
fan of Indian food. The flavors are too muddled for me and I don't
enjoy eating it - even if someone else does the cooking.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 14:21:37 -0500, James Silverton
> wrote:

> I'm not sure how your method can work. Fat is not soluble in water and
> would rise to the top again. I don't think adding flour to a stew is as
> effective as combining it with the cream before addition.

Try it sometime. It helps re-emulsify everything and works like a
charm with broken tomato/meat sauce.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 3/6/2012 2:52 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 14:17:46 -0500, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>> On 3/6/2012 1:58 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 15:11:57 -0800 (PST), "
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I usually add flour to my sauce to thicken it while it simmers, and I
>>>> let it simmer a long time. I add the sour cream at the end, let it
>>>> heat up, and then consider it done.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes I do the meat and sauce in the crock pot. I still wait until
>>>> the very end to add the sour cream.
>>>
>>> Agreed about *when* to add sour cream... or heavy cream for that
>>> matter. I know you can boil heavy cream and it won't curdle. Not
>>> sure how (full fat) sour cream handles, but I'd think it would be just
>>> as stable.
>>>
>>
>> In the days when I could use full fat sour cream, we were instructed to
>> simmer not boil and we almost always mixed the cream with a teaspoonful
>> of flour. This flour mix and careful simmering at the end of cooking
>> works even for fat-free sour cream. Indian food, perforce made with
>> fat-free yoghurt also benefits from its being mixed with flour and can
>> be cooked for a long time without separation.
>
> Maybe that's why I don't cook with sour cream or yogurt very often.
> No need to add extra calories and in these enlightened times, gluten.
> I finish one or two sauces with sour cream, bake with yogurt every so
> often (it's a good replacement for butter) and that's about it. Not a
> fan of Indian food. The flavors are too muddled for me and I don't
> enjoy eating it - even if someone else does the cooking.

Well, we are in different camps here :-) I very much like Indian food
and that covers a vast range from breads, kebabs, stir-fries and lentil
dishes to creamy things like Butter Chicken. Not all Indian foods
involve yoghurt but the amount of flour added is essentially negligible
unless you are gluten intolerant. My main gripe with Indian food is the
amount of fat included in restaurant dishes; Indian *vegetarian* food is
the worst offender. There is a quite good Indian vegetarian buffet that
I have had to avoid because I always got discomfort from the lavish
amounts of ghee.



--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

In article
>,
A Moose in Love > wrote:

> I remember reading Judy Haffner's post yesterday, where she mentioned
> that she mixed flour and sour cream together and added to the
> stroganoff. Did she simmer it further?

I made my idea of stroganoff tonight. I put a goodly amount of sour
cream into the browned beef, mushroom, onion and celery in broth and
then added four plus tablespoons of flour shaken in with 3/4 cup of
water to the thin and broken sour cream stew and came up with this.
<http://tinypic.com/r/2nveddx/5>. Then this after noodles
<http://tinypic.com/r/2hxyatg/5>, and finally this to throw in the oven
to wait for DW to get home from work <http://tinypic.com/r/2s1r8z5/5>.
I know this isn't real stroganoff, but it's tasty and what I grew up
with.
Had it been a weekend, I'd have served the stroganoff over the noodles
instead of mixed. I'm working on presentation. Perhaps some chopped
parsley would have been nice, but I didn't have any. I love my new
little camera.
Never underestimate the power of a flour-water slurry. It thickens and
emulsifies at the same time.

leo