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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
of bagels:

http://bites.today.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...e-some-boiling

I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
(Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
considered them.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On Mar 23, 6:47*pm, James Silverton > wrote:
> * I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
> of bagels:
>
> http://bites.today.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...974-bagel-blas...
>
> I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
> are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
> (Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
> and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
> bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
> considered them.


We used to have two good bagelries, but to my knowledge there is only
one left.
The bagel-shaped things in the grocery stores are not bagels.

> --
> Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)


--Bryan


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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On Friday, March 23, 2012 4:47:53 PM UTC-7, James Silverton wrote:
> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
> of bagels:
>
> http://bites.today.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...e-some-boiling
>
> I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
> are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
> (Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
> and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
> bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
> considered them.
> --
> Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
>
> Extraneous "not" in Reply To.


In Los Angeles, as far as I'm concerned, the only place to buy bagels is at Brooklyn Bagel on Beverly Blvd, just past Alvarado. Been in the same family for three generations; Richard Friedman is the current owner and the place makes 16 varieties of bagels from hearth baked to plain water bagels & everything in between.

Harriet & critters
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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On 2012-03-23, James Silverton > wrote:

> bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
> considered them.


If they're not boiled, it's not a bagel!

When I worked in Silicon Valley, there was a small chain called the
House of Bagels. Best I've ever eaten. Boiled. Authentic. Awesome!
Nothing better than a morning breakfast of lox and cream cheese ona
onion bagel.

The absolute worst bagels I've ever had were from Noah's New York
Bagels, a large chain with bagels that have a cake-like texture. They
were everywhere and totally sucked! If there was ever one to open in
NYC, someone would undoubtedly fly a plane into it.

nb

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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.


"notbob" <>
> The absolute worst bagels I've ever had were from Noah's New York
> Bagels, a large chain with bagels that have a cake-like texture. They
> were everywhere and totally sucked! If there was ever one to open in
> NYC, someone would undoubtedly fly a plane into it.
>

LOL. I've never tasted a bagel; never even seen one but it's fun to see how
strongly you feel about them. Thanks for tonight's belly laugh. Polly



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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

James Silverton wrote:

>I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
>are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
>(Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
>and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
>bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
>considered them.


If it's not parboiled before baking, it doesn't form the
characteristic bagel skin, and therefore it's not a real bagel. I'm
sure all bakery bagels are parboiled. The factory-made pseudo-bagels
in supermarkets, probably not.


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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On Mar 23, 5:48*pm, "critters & me in azusa, ca"
> wrote:
> On Friday, March 23, 2012 4:47:53 PM UTC-7, James Silverton wrote:
> > I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
> > of bagels:

>
> >http://bites.today.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...974-bagel-blas...

>
> > I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
> > are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
> > (Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
> > and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
> > bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
> > considered them.
> > --
> > Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

>
> > Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

>
> In Los Angeles, as far as I'm concerned, the only place to buy bagels is at Brooklyn Bagel on Beverly Blvd, just past Alvarado. *Been in the same family for three generations; Richard Friedman is the current owner and the place makes 16 varieties of bagels from hearth baked to plain water bagels & everything in between.
>
> Harriet & critters


I agree 100 percent. -aem
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Default

I have visited Bethesada Bagels and they are the best as far as I know. They have their own standards.
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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.


"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>>I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
>>are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
>>(Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
>>and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
>>bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
>>considered them.

>
> If it's not parboiled before baking, it doesn't form the
> characteristic bagel skin, and therefore it's not a real bagel. I'm
> sure all bakery bagels are parboiled. The factory-made pseudo-bagels
> in supermarkets, probably not.


Also, they need to be made with potato water and some mashed cooked potato.
This lends he charactristic hewiness that is so desirable.

Paul


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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

Polly Esther wrote:

>I've never tasted a bagel; never even seen one


Where do you live? Must not be in the U.S.




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Paul M. Cook wrote:

>> If it's not parboiled before baking, it doesn't form the
>> characteristic bagel skin, and therefore it's not a real bagel. I'm
>> sure all bakery bagels are parboiled. The factory-made pseudo-bagels
>> in supermarkets, probably not.

>
>Also, they need to be made with potato water and some mashed cooked potato.
>This lends he charactristic hewiness that is so desirable.


Good tip. I'll try that next time I make some.



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On 3/23/2012 8:48 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-03-23, James > wrote:
>
>> bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
>> considered them.

>
> If they're not boiled, it's not a bagel!
>
> When I worked in Silicon Valley, there was a small chain called the
> House of Bagels. Best I've ever eaten. Boiled. Authentic. Awesome!
> Nothing better than a morning breakfast of lox and cream cheese ona
> onion bagel.
>
> The absolute worst bagels I've ever had were from Noah's New York
> Bagels, a large chain with bagels that have a cake-like texture. They
> were everywhere and totally sucked! If there was ever one to open in
> NYC, someone would undoubtedly fly a plane into it.
>


I've eaten Noah's bagels for a quick breakfast while in San Francisco
and they are not very good. Wholesome enough but not dipped in boiling
water I'm sure.


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On 2012-03-24, James Silverton > wrote:

> and they are not very good. Wholesome enough but not dipped in boiling
> water I'm sure.


Not even remotely close to a bagel. More like a circular muffin. For
what they are, tasty enough. But when you go in and are expecting to
chomp down on a real dense-as-dirt bagel, it's a real shocker.

nb

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On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 09:16:32 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:

> I've eaten Noah's bagels for a quick breakfast while in San Francisco
> and they are not very good. Wholesome enough but not dipped in boiling
> water I'm sure.


I was used to giving my facial muscles a workout eating water bagels
from Holey Bagel so before I got used to the texture, chewing on
Noah's was like eating a pillow. Unfortunately, Noah's is about the
best there is for that type of bagel because "real" bagels are few and
far between. I went on a bagel hunt (on foot not by taxi) around
where I was staying in Midtown Manhattan once and discovered that
finding a decent NY bagel is like going on a snipe hunt. Where ever
you are, the person you're talking to wants you to go somewhere else
(which to a non-New Yorker seems like the other side of town even if
it's not) just to find a decent bagel. The experience taught me that
a decent bagel is far from ubiquitous in NYC too.

--
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On Mar 23, 9:07*pm, Christine Dabney > wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 21:00:19 -0700 (PDT), aem >
> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 23, 5:48*pm, "critters & me in azusa, ca"
> >> In Los Angeles, as far as I'm concerned, the only place to buy bagels is at Brooklyn Bagel on Beverly Blvd, just past Alvarado. *Been in the same family for three generations; Richard Friedman is the current owner and the place makes 16 varieties of bagels from hearth baked to plain water bagels & everything in between.

>
> >> Harriet & critters

>
> >I agree 100 percent. *-aem

>
> Okay, give me a general idea of where this place is. *It is very
> likely I am going to be somewhere in the greater LA area for this next
> contract..assuming I get it. * Might be in Thousand Oaks or in
> Riverside...not sure yet. *I can travel and will, for food. *Although
> not as much as I used to, with the high price of gas.


A mile or two west of downtown. Not near to either Thousand Oaks or
Riverside. Not a "destination" neighborhood but they do carry a
variety of cream cheeses and accompaniments. I get my smoked salmon
elsewhere and also like the bagels with homegrown heirloom tomatoes
(Brandywine) later in the year. -aem




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On 24/03/2012 9:47 AM, sf wrote:
ter I'm sure.
>
> I was used to giving my facial muscles a workout eating water bagels
> from Holey Bagel so before I got used to the texture, chewing on
> Noah's was like eating a pillow. Unfortunately, Noah's is about the
> best there is for that type of bagel because "real" bagels are few and
> far between. I went on a bagel hunt (on foot not by taxi) around
> where I was staying in Midtown Manhattan once and discovered that
> finding a decent NY bagel is like going on a snipe hunt. Where ever
> you are, the person you're talking to wants you to go somewhere else
> (which to a non-New Yorker seems like the other side of town even if
> it's not) just to find a decent bagel. The experience taught me that
> a decent bagel is far from ubiquitous in NYC too.
>


Good bagels are almost non existent in this area. The grocery stores
carry factory made and/or in store bakery bagels, but they are crappy.
When my son lived in Montreal there were a number of places where we
could get incredible fresh made bagels. Now he is in Toronto and there
is bakery about two blocks from his apartment that has great Montreal
style bagels.

A local bakery has started making bagels. They are the best you can get
in the area, but they are a far cry from those Montreal bagels.
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On 3/24/2012 1:06 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 24/03/2012 9:47 AM, sf wrote:
> ter I'm sure.
>>
>> I was used to giving my facial muscles a workout eating water bagels
>> from Holey Bagel so before I got used to the texture, chewing on
>> Noah's was like eating a pillow. Unfortunately, Noah's is about the
>> best there is for that type of bagel because "real" bagels are few and
>> far between. I went on a bagel hunt (on foot not by taxi) around
>> where I was staying in Midtown Manhattan once and discovered that
>> finding a decent NY bagel is like going on a snipe hunt. Where ever
>> you are, the person you're talking to wants you to go somewhere else
>> (which to a non-New Yorker seems like the other side of town even if
>> it's not) just to find a decent bagel. The experience taught me that
>> a decent bagel is far from ubiquitous in NYC too.
>>

>
> Good bagels are almost non existent in this area. The grocery stores
> carry factory made and/or in store bakery bagels, but they are crappy.
> When my son lived in Montreal there were a number of places where we
> could get incredible fresh made bagels. Now he is in Toronto and there
> is bakery about two blocks from his apartment that has great Montreal
> style bagels.
>
> A local bakery has started making bagels. They are the best you can get
> in the area, but they are a far cry from those Montreal bagels.


If you use what you can find in big box stores as a reference it almost
seems no one wants bakery products that are much different than wonder
bread.

We have three local bakeries that make traditional boiled bagels.
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On 3/24/2012 4:40 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "George M. > wrote in message
> ...
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>> I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
>>> are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
>>> (Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
>>> and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
>>> bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
>>> considered them.

>>
>> If it's not parboiled before baking, it doesn't form the
>> characteristic bagel skin, and therefore it's not a real bagel. I'm
>> sure all bakery bagels are parboiled. The factory-made pseudo-bagels
>> in supermarkets, probably not.

>
> Also, they need to be made with potato water and some mashed cooked potato.
> This lends he charactristic hewiness that is so desirable.
>


I'd never heard previously about the use of potato water but I see
recipes on the net mention it. I don't know whether either of my
favorite bagelries use it.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

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On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:34:07 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:

>On 3/24/2012 4:40 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> "George M. > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can't say I've ever had much experience of New York bagels but there
>>>> are two good bagel places even near where I live: Bethesda Bagels
>>>> (Bethesda Ave, Bethesda) and Goldberg's Bagels (Tuckerman Lane, Bethesda
>>>> and Boiling Brook Rd, Kensington). I believe both places make their
>>>> bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
>>>> considered them.
>>>
>>> If it's not parboiled before baking, it doesn't form the
>>> characteristic bagel skin, and therefore it's not a real bagel. I'm
>>> sure all bakery bagels are parboiled. The factory-made pseudo-bagels
>>> in supermarkets, probably not.

>>
>> Also, they need to be made with potato water and some mashed cooked potato.
>> This lends he charactristic hewiness that is so desirable.
>>

>
>I'd never heard previously about the use of potato water but I see
>recipes on the net mention it. I don't know whether either of my
>favorite bagelries use it.


No potato water. Bagels are boiled in water that contains 1 Tbls malt
syrup to 3 quarts of water. Read George Greenstein's book.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/778...looking-bagels

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In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2012-03-23, James Silverton > wrote:
>
> > bagels properly and boil the dough before baking but I don't think CR
> > considered them.

>
> If they're not boiled, it's not a bagel!
>
> When I worked in Silicon Valley, there was a small chain called the
> House of Bagels. Best I've ever eaten. Boiled. Authentic. Awesome!
> Nothing better than a morning breakfast of lox and cream cheese ona
> onion bagel.
>
> The absolute worst bagels I've ever had were from Noah's New York
> Bagels, a large chain with bagels that have a cake-like texture. They
> were everywhere and totally sucked! If there was ever one to open in
> NYC, someone would undoubtedly fly a plane into it.
>
> nb


There's a Noah's near our house in Seattle. Utterly abominable. The
best bagels we've found in the Northwest are at Olympic Bagels in Port
Angeles, WA and in Siegel's in Vancouver, BC. The latter does
Montreal-style bagels and imports smoked meat from back east. We came
back on New Year's Day this year with a cooler full of smoked meat and
bags of bagels. (Rosemary rock salt bagel with smoked meat = The
Promised Land.)

Cindy

--
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On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 17:52:43 -0700, Cindy Fuller
> wrote:

> (Rosemary rock salt bagel with smoked meat = The
> Promised Land.)


Rosemary rock salt bagel sounds divine! I'd pair it with my usual
love, lox and cream cheese... but maybe rosemary and lox don't like
eat other. If they don't I'd eat it plain, not even split.

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"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings of
> bagels:
>


Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too tough
and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't make them
any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.

I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
colour

Jill

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On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
>> of bagels:
>>

>
> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>
> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
> colour
>


I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never really
had good ones.

Even good bagels can frozen at home. They are best defrosted by nuking
for about 30 seconds, placed in a cold oven and removed when the oven
reaches 350F. I noticed that Goldberg's sells bags of bagels, unfrozen
but ready for freezing.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

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On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
> wrote:

>On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
>>> of bagels:
>>>

>>
>> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
>> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
>> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>>
>> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
>> colour
>>

>
>I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never really
>had good ones.


Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.
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On Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:25:45 AM UTC-6, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
> >On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> >>
> >> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
> >>> of bagels:
> >>>
> >>
> >> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
> >> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
> >> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
> >>
> >> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
> >> colour
> >>

> >
> >I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never really
> >had good ones.

>
> Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
> bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
> use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
> also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
> today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
> of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.


Ate bagels once and never again. Tasteless crap. Yuck.
==


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On 3/25/2012 12:25 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>> On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> "James > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
>>>> of bagels:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
>>> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
>>> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>>>
>>> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
>>> colour
>>>

>>
>> I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never really
>> had good ones.

>
> Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
> bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
> use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
> also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
> today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
> of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.



You mean for example that this place that I just went to on the LES
doesn't exist:

http://www.kossarsbialys.com/Bagel%20making.htm

A lot have things have changed in 30 years. It costs $12 cash or $9.50
with an ezpass to cross the GWB.
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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Roy >
wrote:

>On Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:25:45 AM UTC-6, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports' ratings
>> >>> of bagels:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
>> >> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
>> >> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>> >>
>> >> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
>> >> colour
>> >>
>> >
>> >I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never really
>> >had good ones.

>>
>> Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
>> bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
>> use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
>> also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
>> today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
>> of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.

>
>Ate bagels once and never again. Tasteless crap. Yuck.


Bagels are bread, they taste exactly like plain pizza crust... in fact
bagel and pizza dough recipes are interchangeable, they are the same.
Did you think bagels are chocolate brownies? duh
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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.


"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Roy >
> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:25:45 AM UTC-6, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
>>> >> ...
>>> >>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports'
>>> >>> ratings
>>> >>> of bagels:
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
>>> >> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
>>> >> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>>> >>
>>> >> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
>>> >> colour
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never
>>> >really
>>> >had good ones.
>>>
>>> Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
>>> bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
>>> use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
>>> also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
>>> today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
>>> of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.

>>
>>Ate bagels once and never again. Tasteless crap. Yuck.

>
> Bagels are bread, they taste exactly like plain pizza crust... in fact
> bagel and pizza dough recipes are interchangeable, they are the same.
> Did you think bagels are chocolate brownies? duh



Now you're being silly. Bagels are boiled then baked. You don't boil pizza
dough.

Jill

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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:19:35 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>
>"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:33:34 -0700 (PDT), Roy >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:25:45 AM UTC-6, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
>>>> >> ...
>>>> >>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports'
>>>> >>> ratings
>>>> >>> of bagels:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
>>>> >> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
>>>> >> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
>>>> >> colour
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never
>>>> >really
>>>> >had good ones.
>>>>
>>>> Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
>>>> bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
>>>> use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
>>>> also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
>>>> today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
>>>> of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.
>>>
>>>Ate bagels once and never again. Tasteless crap. Yuck.

>>
>> Bagels are bread, they taste exactly like plain pizza crust... in fact
>> bagel and pizza dough recipes are interchangeable, they are the same.
>> Did you think bagels are chocolate brownies? duh

>
>
>Now you're being silly. Bagels are boiled then baked. You don't boil pizza
>dough.


A few seconds dip in hot water has nothing to do with the taste, it's
only about the shiney surface appearence. Pizza crust is floured so
it has a dull surface appearence, has nothing to do with the taste.
Yeast bread of wheat, water, and salt is made in thousands of
versions, different surface appearences, different textures, different
shapes, but they all essentially taste the same except for different
wheat flour, different yeast, and different water. Most of the flavor
of bread depends on oven temperature and how long it's baked. Bagels
and most breads are about texture, not taste.
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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On 25/03/2012 4:19 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> Ate bagels once and never again. Tasteless crap. Yuck.
>>
>> Bagels are bread, they taste exactly like plain pizza crust... in fact
>> bagel and pizza dough recipes are interchangeable, they are the same.
>> Did you think bagels are chocolate brownies? duh

>
>
> Now you're being silly. Bagels are boiled then baked.


So is Sheldon.





> You don't boil pizza dough.
>
>




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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

Sheldon the Troll whined:

>>> Bagels are bread, they taste exactly like plain pizza crust...


>>Now you're being silly. Bagels are boiled then baked. You don't boil pizza
>>dough.


>A few seconds dip in hot water has nothing to do with the taste, it's
>only about the shiney surface appearence.


Don't forget the difference in ingredients. Of course, if you can't
taste anything except Lucky Strikes, that wouldn't matter to you.

Also, even though you're 86 yrs old or whatever, learn how to snip.


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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On 3/25/2012 6:06 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:19:35 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Brooklyn1"<Gravesend1> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:33:34 -0700 (PDT), >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:25:45 AM UTC-6, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "James > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports'
>>>>>>>> ratings
>>>>>>>> of bagels:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
>>>>>>> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
>>>>>>> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
>>>>>>> colour
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> had good ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
>>>>> bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
>>>>> use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
>>>>> also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
>>>>> today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
>>>>> of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.
>>>>
>>>> Ate bagels once and never again. Tasteless crap. Yuck.
>>>
>>> Bagels are bread, they taste exactly like plain pizza crust... in fact
>>> bagel and pizza dough recipes are interchangeable, they are the same.
>>> Did you think bagels are chocolate brownies? duh

>>
>>
>> Now you're being silly. Bagels are boiled then baked. You don't boil pizza
>> dough.

>
> A few seconds dip in hot water has nothing to do with the taste, it's
> only about the shiney surface appearence. Pizza crust is floured so
> it has a dull surface appearence, has nothing to do with the taste.
> Yeast bread of wheat, water, and salt is made in thousands of
> versions, different surface appearences, different textures, different
> shapes, but they all essentially taste the same except for different
> wheat flour, different yeast, and different water. Most of the flavor
> of bread depends on oven temperature and how long it's baked. Bagels
> and most breads are about texture, not taste.



Bagels are boiled explicitly to get a chewy texture.

Having made them I am absolutely sure the following is correct:

"Ask any good bagel baker and they'll tell you that the key to that
chewy crust and slightly dense interior is boiling the bagels before
baking."

"...Boiling breads like bagels and pretzels effectively sets the crust
before it goes in the oven. The water doesn't actually penetrate very
far into the bread because the starch on the exterior quickly gels and
forms a barrier. Bagels are typically boiled for 30-60 seconds on each
side. The longer the boil, the thicker and chewier crust.

In the oven, the fact that the crust is already set means that the
bagels don't rise nearly as much. This is partly what gives bagels their
signature dense, chewy interiors. (The other part is using high-protein
flour.)

Again, how long the bagel was boiled will affect the interior texture. A
brief boil gives bagels a thin and fairly elastic crust that will still
allow the bagels rise quite a bit in the oven, resulting in a softer
texture. A longer boil and a thicker crust prevents the bagel from
rising very much at all, giving you a very dense interior."


http://www.thekitchn.com/food-scienc...s-are-bo-86711


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I ate my first bagel when I went away to college-little deli off campus
I ordered it with butter and it was served hot soaked in
butter-delicious. I remember one year bringing some home to my parent's
fridge and the next morning my dad asked me about those funny doughnuts
:-) I have also made them-quite fun to make and yes the boiling in water
is neccesary. I still occasionally buy a sliced asiago cheese bagel and
spread with butter and pop it into the toaster oven. Plain cream cheese
goes well on a blueberry bagel and garden vegetable cream cheese on a
garlic bagel. I dont enjoy cream cheese as a topping on anything but a
bagel.

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Default Bagels: a contentious topic.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:09:46 -0400, George >
wrote:

>On 3/25/2012 6:06 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:19:35 -0400, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Brooklyn1"<Gravesend1> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:33:34 -0700 (PDT), >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:25:45 AM UTC-6, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:53:37 -0400, James Silverton
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/2012 9:16 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "James > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> I see that New Yorkers are up in arms about Consumer Reports'
>>>>>>>>> ratings
>>>>>>>>> of bagels:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bagels? Who cares? Not everyone likes bagels. I find them to be too
>>>>>>>> tough and too doughy. Slather them with cream cheese and lox, doesn't
>>>>>>>> make them any less doughy. I don't understand the appeal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do like "bagel chips" as a snack. But that's a horse of a different
>>>>>>>> colour
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I venture to suggest that people who don't like bagels have never
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> had good ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even those sold in NYC aren't very good anymore... the old bagel
>>>>>> bakers are dead and the newbies are only interested in profits, they
>>>>>> use much cheaper flour so naturally their bagels turn out gummy, they
>>>>>> also skimp on baking time, they sell them practically raw. Bagels
>>>>>> today are also expensive, I can remember buying bagels hot right out
>>>>>> of the oven for 50¢/doz, and they were 50% larger.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ate bagels once and never again. Tasteless crap. Yuck.
>>>>
>>>> Bagels are bread, they taste exactly like plain pizza crust... in fact
>>>> bagel and pizza dough recipes are interchangeable, they are the same.
>>>> Did you think bagels are chocolate brownies? duh
>>>
>>>
>>> Now you're being silly. Bagels are boiled then baked. You don't boil pizza
>>> dough.

>>
>> A few seconds dip in hot water has nothing to do with the taste, it's
>> only about the shiney surface appearence. Pizza crust is floured so
>> it has a dull surface appearence, has nothing to do with the taste.
>> Yeast bread of wheat, water, and salt is made in thousands of
>> versions, different surface appearences, different textures, different
>> shapes, but they all essentially taste the same except for different
>> wheat flour, different yeast, and different water. Most of the flavor
>> of bread depends on oven temperature and how long it's baked. Bagels
>> and most breads are about texture, not taste.

>
>
>Bagels are boiled explicitly to get a chewy texture.


Nonsense. Bagels are boiled very minimally, less than 30 seconds per
side... only to give them a sheen. If you knew anything at all about
yeast breads (you actually know ZERO) you'd know that boiling would
kill the yeast and they'd not rise, they'd become hockey pucks...
George is an IDIOT!


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George wrote:
> Bagels are boiled explicitly to get a chewy texture.
>
> Having made them I am absolutely sure the following is correct:
>
> "Ask any good bagel baker and they'll tell you that the key to that
> chewy crust and slightly dense interior is boiling the bagels before
> baking."
>
> "...Boiling breads like bagels and pretzels effectively sets the crust
> before it goes in the oven. The water doesn't actually penetrate very
> far into the bread because the starch on the exterior quickly gels and
> forms a barrier. Bagels are typically boiled for 30-60 seconds on each
> side. The longer the boil, the thicker and chewier crust.
>
> In the oven, the fact that the crust is already set means that the
> bagels don't rise nearly as much. This is partly what gives bagels their
> signature dense, chewy interiors. (The other part is using high-protein
> flour.)
>
> Again, how long the bagel was boiled will affect the interior texture. A
> brief boil gives bagels a thin and fairly elastic crust that will still
> allow the bagels rise quite a bit in the oven, resulting in a softer
> texture. A longer boil and a thicker crust prevents the bagel from
> rising very much at all, giving you a very dense interior."
>
>
> http://www.thekitchn.com/food-scienc...s-are-bo-86711
>
>



They are not just boiled in just plain water; to do it right you use a
weak lye solution. Washing soda (sodium carbonate) is a poor but barely
acceptable substitute. If you use plain water, the bagels will not
brown properly.

-Bob
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On 3/26/2012 11:06 AM, zxcvbob wrote:
>
>
> They are not just boiled in just plain water; to do it right you use a
> weak lye solution. Washing soda (sodium carbonate) is a poor but barely
> acceptable substitute. If you use plain water, the bagels will not brown
> properly.
>
> -Bob


That's interesting. I may try to make some bagels - what amount of lye
would you recommend for about 4 quarts of water? Thanks.
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dsi1 wrote:
> On 3/26/2012 11:06 AM, zxcvbob wrote:
>>
>>
>> They are not just boiled in just plain water; to do it right you use a
>> weak lye solution. Washing soda (sodium carbonate) is a poor but barely
>> acceptable substitute. If you use plain water, the bagels will not brown
>> properly.
>>
>> -Bob

>
> That's interesting. I may try to make some bagels - what amount of lye
> would you recommend for about 4 quarts of water? Thanks.



I'd guess about a tablespoon. I've never done it before, it's just one
of those things that stuck in my memory from several long-lost sources.
But it shouldnt be too hard to verify. Good luck.

-Bob
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dsi1 wrote:

>> They are not just boiled in just plain water; to do it right you use a
>> weak lye solution. Washing soda (sodium carbonate) is a poor but barely
>> acceptable substitute. If you use plain water, the bagels will not brown
>> properly.


>That's interesting. I may try to make some bagels - what amount of lye
>would you recommend for about 4 quarts of water? Thanks.


I wouldn't worry about the NaCO3 unless you already have some. I've
made bagels and the recipe I followed called for sodium bicarbonate
(baking soda). The crust came out nice.



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In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 17:52:43 -0700, Cindy Fuller
> > wrote:
>
> > (Rosemary rock salt bagel with smoked meat = The
> > Promised Land.)

>
> Rosemary rock salt bagel sounds divine! I'd pair it with my usual
> love, lox and cream cheese... but maybe rosemary and lox don't like
> eat other. If they don't I'd eat it plain, not even split.


I prefer NW hot-smoked salmon to lox. The latter is way too salty for
me, even the "nova".

Cindy

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