I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.

Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?

I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?

Probably best to worry about washing hands and drips.

Greg

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:51:53 -0500, (z z) wrote:

>I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
>buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
>Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
>Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
>I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
>says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
>season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?

With a whole chicken, I'll rinse it after removing the package of
innards. With parts, I never got crazy about doing anything if they
are in good condition. Only if the package had liquid inside would I
give a rinse.

We are careful to wash any prop boards or plates though. Most goes
into the dishwasher and is sanitized.

"z z" > wrote in message
...
>I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?

Nope I don't. I figure that washing it will just spread whatever it is all
over the sink.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:51:53 -0500, (z z) wrote:
>
>> I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
>> buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>>
>> Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
>> Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>>
>> I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
>> says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
>> season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?
>
> With a whole chicken, I'll rinse it after removing the package of
> innards. With parts, I never got crazy about doing anything if they
> are in good condition. Only if the package had liquid inside would I
> give a rinse.
>
> We are careful to wash any prop boards or plates though. Most goes
> into the dishwasher and is sanitized.

I don't recall ever washing a whole chicken or chicken parts.
Like you, I am very careful with washing anything that comes in
contact with raw chicken--or raw poultry or meat or egg, etc. To
my knowledge, I have never given anyone food poisoning.

--
Jean B.

On Apr 10, 10:35*pm, "Jean B." > wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:51:53 -0500, (z z) wrote:
>
> >> I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> >> buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> >> Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> >> Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> >> I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> >> says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> >> season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?
>
> > With a whole chicken, I'll rinse it after removing the package of
> > innards. *With parts, I never got crazy about doing anything if they
> > are in good condition. Only if the package had liquid inside would I
> > give a rinse.
>
> > We are careful to wash any prop boards or plates though. *Most goes
> > into the dishwasher and is sanitized.
>
> I don't recall ever washing a whole chicken or chicken parts.
> Like you, I am very careful with washing anything that comes in
> contact with raw chicken--or raw poultry or meat or egg, etc. *To
> my knowledge, I have never given anyone food poisoning.

I rinse the area of the pelvis where I've removed the nasty kidney
tissue to get rid of kidney particles, but it's an aesthetic thing,
nothing to do with safety.
>
> --
> Jean B.

--Bryan

On Apr 10, 6:51*pm, (z z) wrote:
> I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?

You might want to pat them dry with paper towel, to help the oil
stick.

My mom always rinsed the chicken. I'm not about to start questioning
things she did -- I'll be immobilized for hours.

On Apr 10, 8:51*pm, (z z) wrote:
> I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?

Smart Chicken is very high quality. They air chill their chickens,
instead of washing them in bleach. In my quest for wing tips, I
learned a lot about chicken processing.

--Bryan

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 23:12:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:51:53 -0500, (z z) wrote:
>
> >I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> >buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
> >
> >Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> >Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
> >
> >I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> >says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> >season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?
>
> With a whole chicken, I'll rinse it after removing the package of
> innards. With parts, I never got crazy about doing anything if they
> are in good condition. Only if the package had liquid inside would I
> give a rinse.
>
I'm with you there, Ed.

> We are careful to wash any prop boards or plates though. Most goes
> into the dishwasher and is sanitized.


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 21:28:14 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> > wrote:
>
>>My mom always rinsed the chicken. I'm not about to start questioning
>>things she did -- I'll be immobilized for hours.
>
> http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/...ty/index.asp#1
>

from that link:

Washing Meat and Poultry
Washing raw poultry, beef, pork, lamb, or veal before cooking it is not
recommended. Bacteria in raw meat and poultry juices can be spread to other
foods, utensils, and surfaces. We call this cross-contamination.

Some consumers think they are removing bacteria and making their meat or
poultry safe. However, some of the bacteria are so tightly attached that you
could not remove them no matter how many times you washed. But there are
other types of bacteria that can be easily washed off and splashed on the
surfaces of your kitchen. Failure to clean these contaminated areas can lead
to foodborne illness. Cooking (baking, broiling, boiling, and grilling) to
the right temperature kills the bacteria, so washing food is not necessary.

Using a food thermometer is the only sure way of knowing if your food has
reached a high enough temperature to destroy foodborne bacteria. Cook all
raw beef and veal steaks, roasts, and chops to a minimum internal
temperature of 145 °F as measured with a food thermometer before removing
meat from the heat source. For safety and quality, allow meat to rest for at
least three minutes before carving or consuming. For reasons of personal
preference, consumers may choose to cook meat to higher temperatures.

"gregz" > wrote in message
...
> Probably best to worry about washing hands and drips.

Agreed! When i am working with chicken, I have a sinkful of hot soapy water
to wash my hands and any utensils, but I don't wash the meat.

--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

I still like to run chicken under cold water - removes maybe bits of
feathers, blood etc. I also wash those 'washed' salad greens. 'Ey, I
didn't buy that spinner for a decoration. : ))

On Apr 10, 11:16*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "z z" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> > buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> > Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> > Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> > I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> > says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> > season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?
>
> Nope I don't. *I figure that washing it will just spread whatever it is all
> over the sink.

Don't you wash your sink after every cooking session? Not rocket
science.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:51:53 -0500, (z z) wrote:

>I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
>buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
>Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
>Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
>I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
>says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
>season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?

Absolutely YES! Under cold running water, and a little manual
scrubbing. If I can wash off a few million salmonella or other
bacteria, all the better.

I consider raw chicken to be a toxic substance, coveed with bactgeria
which I know it is. So after taking it out of the little styro tray I
always wash it off like this. And tghen after I wash the entire sink
area, counter and any utensils used with hot soapy water.

John Kuthe...

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I still like to run chicken under cold water - removes maybe bits of
> feathers, blood etc. I also wash those 'washed' salad greens. 'Ey, I
> didn't buy that spinner for a decoration. : ))

lol The chickens I buy are clean with no blood or feathers, so perhaps
that would make a difference.


--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Apr 11, 8:21*am, Bull > wrote:
> In article >,
> *John Kuthe > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:51:53 -0500, (z z) wrote:
>
> > >I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> > >buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> > >Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> > >Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> > >I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> > >says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> > >season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?
>
> > Absolutely YES! Under cold running water, and a little manual
> > scrubbing. If I can wash off a few million salmonella or other
> > bacteria, all the better.
>
> > I consider raw chicken to be a toxic substance, coveed with bactgeria
> > which I know it is. So after taking it out of the little styro tray I
> > always wash it off like this. And tghen after I wash the entire sink
> > area, counter and any utensils used with hot soapy water.
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> Also me. *I wash, ightly salt and air dry in fridge. The skin is always
> crispy. *Chickens are such nasty dead things. *I always buy organic
> chicken. *Organic salmonella is much better for you.

The miracle of cooking transforms those "nasty dead things" into
deliciousness.
>
> BULL

--Bryan

On 4/10/2012 11:18 PM, Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 23:12:03 -0400, Ed > wrote:
>
>> With a whole chicken, I'll rinse it after removing the package of
>> innards. With parts, I never got crazy about doing anything if they
>> are in good condition. Only if the package had liquid inside would I
>> give a rinse.
>
> The current thinking is to not rinse. The theory is that with
> rinsing, you are spreading around whatever nasty germs there are,and
> not getting rid of them. The high heat will take care of the germs.

The way I see it, there's a good chance of dirt/manure particles on
the chicken, besides the bacteria. Rinsing isn't going to make much
impact on the bacterial load, but it will rinse off surface dirt.
After all, slaughter isn't a tidy process.

On 2012-04-11, Hell Toupee > wrote:

> After all, slaughter isn't a tidy process.

Specially chicken factories. It's so bad, I've pretty much stopped
eating chicken. I know, I know ....no doubt beef and swine production
is much better, but chicken has jes gone so far downhill, I
don't wanna even consider it, anymore. I recently baked some
"premium" chicken legs my mom had purchased. Freakishly large.
Basically, inedible. Tough, sinewy, real frankinfowl. :/

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!

On 2012-04-11, Ophelia > wrote:

> Agreed! When i am working with chicken, I have a sinkful of hot soapy water

I try to avoid "hot" water. I've discovered most cryopak meats have
that soupy slimey residue juice, which when exposed to hot tap water,
will partially cook the proteins in the slime and gum up everything,
including the plumbing. Better to use warm water and a sanitizing
agent, like chlorine bleach. 1 part bleach to 10 parts water is more
than adequate. If the meat is fatty, I will use hot water and a good
detergent. If I handle real greasy foods, I wear latex gloves.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!

On 4/11/2012 8:30 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-04-11, > wrote:
>
>> Agreed! When i am working with chicken, I have a sinkful of hot soapy water
>
> I try to avoid "hot" water. I've discovered most cryopak meats have
> that soupy slimey residue juice, which when exposed to hot tap water,
> will partially cook the proteins in the slime and gum up everything,
> including the plumbing. Better to use warm water and a sanitizing
> agent, like chlorine bleach. 1 part bleach to 10 parts water is more
> than adequate. If the meat is fatty, I will use hot water and a good
> detergent. If I handle real greasy foods, I wear latex gloves.


The bleach solution for sanitizing is fine, but it is not a substitute
for detergent and water cleaning. Clean with detergent and water first
("hot" water is not necessary, warm or even tepid water will still
effective), then sanitize with the bleach solution.

On 2012-04-11, Pennyaline > wrote:

> The bleach solution for sanitizing is fine, but it is not a substitute
> for detergent and water cleaning.

I did not claim it was.

There is water in the chlorine/water sanitizer. Detergent does only
one thing. It breaks down oils/fats, a dispersant, so as to not clog
yer plumbing with layers of fat/grease residues. Detergents
contribute little or nothing in cleaning up, say spilled tea or
lemonade, except for bleaching anti-staining additives, which bleach
does even better. I don't usually wash without dish soap, but I use
as little detergent as possible, it being a major pollutant.

> Clean with detergent and water first
> ("hot" water is not necessary, warm or even tepid water will still
> effective), then sanitize with the bleach solution.

Or, you can do it in one shot, putting detergent in the sanitizing
solution. Six of one, etc....

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!

I asked the question of a friend who works in the food industry in UK

Here is what he said:

"Washing will remove soiling such as blood or feathers. However, it will not
remove bacteria. As that correspondent said, anything that goes into the
water bath will be spread around the chicken. So you can accept as a given
that the chicken will be contaminated with food poisoning bacteria.

But as washing *does* remove soiling, it is always worthwhile. And who can
guarantee that the innards of the chicken will actually be clean without
running water through it and sticking their hand in there to make sure all
the muck is gone?

As for the bacteria, there are two issues: multiplication and survival.

Multiplication - Although the chicken may be contaminated with food
poisoning bacteria, it is likely to be in small numbers. Given the right
conditions many bacteria can double their numbers in ten minutes. In order
to prevent growth of the bacteria leading to food spoilage, the chicken
should be stored out of the "Danger Zone". The danger zone is between 8C
and 63C. Preferably a target level of 5C should be used. So keep it in the
fridge. If the chicken is inadvertently allowed to be stored at a
temperature above 8C for more than four hours, the bactera will have
multiplied to dangerous levels and spoilage will have commenced. The only
option is to discard the chicken.

Survival - Below the Danger Zone, bacteria cannot multiply. Above the Danger
one, bacteria is less likely to survive. The cooking temperature for
chicken is recommended as at least 75C for ten minutes. And that is 75C in
the coolest part of the chicken - the deep thigh. That will kill off all
bacteria except for spores of bacteria such as Clostridium botulinum. But
if the meat if contaminated with botulinum spores, undercooking is the least
of your problems!

And back to multiplication - Once cooked satisfactorily, the meat will
become contaminated again by airborne bacteria almost as soon as it is
removed from the oven. In order to prevent the new bacteria from
multiplying, it should be stored outside the Danger zone again. Therefore
cooked food held in hot-holding on a servery should be above 63C with a time
limit of two hours.

That's a long and involved way of saying that washing a chicken will make it
look cleaner but will not get rid of bacteria. Only thorough cooking will
do that. "




--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:08:35 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

> That's a long and involved way of saying that washing a chicken will make it
> look cleaner but will not get rid of bacteria. Only thorough cooking will
> do that. "

I rinse chicken off with no expectation of cleaning it, I just want
the crud off.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Apr 10, 8:16*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "z z" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> > buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> > Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> > Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> > I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> > says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> > season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?
>
> Nope I don't. *I figure that washing it will just spread whatever it is all
> over the sink.

Well then, wash the sink!

Chemo the Clown wrote:

> > Nope I don't. *I figure that washing it will just spread whatever it is all
> > over the sink.
>
> Well then, wash the sink!

In Julie's world, washing the sink probably makes it float.

On Apr 10, 9:51*pm, (z z) wrote:
> I cant stand prep work with raw chicken-number one reason why I rarely
> buy it-in a tiny kitchen raw chicken is a pita.
>
> Really, though, does running water over chicken change anything??
> Doesn't the high temp of cooking kill any germs I can't see anyway?
>
> I bought a pristine package of wings tonight-organic "smart chicken" it
> says, raised antibiotic free. So if I rub a little olive oil over them,
> season them, and pop them in the oven, isn't washing them needless?

I wash no meat except when I'm cooking for my uncle. He demands that
all meat be washed. Clean utensils, cutting boards and hands are
important.

On 4/11/2012 9:24 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-04-11, > wrote:
>
>> The bleach solution for sanitizing is fine, but it is not a substitute
>> for detergent and water cleaning.
>
> I did not claim it was.

Are you sure you didn't?

"I've discovered most cryopak meats have
that soupy slimey residue juice, which when exposed to hot tap water,
will partially cook the proteins in the slime and gum up everything,
including the plumbing. Better to use warm water and a sanitizing
agent, like chlorine bleach."

Perhaps you didn't mean to make that claim, but the wording of your
comment does make it appear that you did indeed claim it.




> There is water in the chlorine/water sanitizer. Detergent does only
> one thing. It breaks down oils/fats, a dispersant, so as to not clog
> yer plumbing with layers of fat/grease residues. Detergents
> contribute little or nothing in cleaning up, say spilled tea or
> lemonade, except for bleaching anti-staining additives, which bleach
> does even better. I don't usually wash without dish soap, but I use
> as little detergent as possible, it being a major pollutant.

Detergent acts to keep contaminants in suspension, thus helping to keep
them from resettling onto the surfaces you're trying to clean. That's
important. Detergent definitely serves a purpose, even when cleaning up,
say spilled tea or lemonade, as it keeps everything from resettling. The
plain bleach solution wont do that, no matter what it does to the
appearance of the surface spilled upon. Cleaning of a surface before
sanitizing it is paramount, as sanitizers, even the bleach solution,
cannot penetrate layers of dirt and soil. Sanitizing is always done
after detergent and water cleaning.

BTW, are you suggesting that there are no oils in tea and lemonade?






>> Clean with detergent and water first
>> ("hot" water is not necessary, warm or even tepid water will still
>> effective), then sanitize with the bleach solution.
>
> Or, you can do it in one shot, putting detergent in the sanitizing
> solution. Six of one, etc....

Not necessarily. Cleaning agents get in the way of sanitizing agents.
Cleaning agents ordinarily have to be rinsed away well or they leave an
unwanted residue of the dirt they were cleaning up as well as their own
negative and unwanted properties (ex stickiness). Sanitizing agents such
as the bleach solution, on the other hand, are meant to dwell on the
surface being sanitized and dry there.

On 2012-04-11, Pennyaline > wrote:

> "I've discovered most cryopak meats have
> that soupy slimey residue juice, which when exposed to hot tap water,
> will partially cook the proteins in the slime and gum up everything,
> including the plumbing. Better to use warm water and a sanitizing
> agent, like chlorine bleach."
>
> Perhaps you didn't mean to make that claim, but the wording of your
> comment does make it appear that you did indeed claim it.

Are you some kinda anal bitch whose gonna nit-pick every word I write?
Jes cuz I don't make you aware of every single move I make doesn't
mean I failed to strike every unsaid stroke.

Sqwertz, meet Pennyaline (is that your name or your profession?).
Here's one fer the B3hive. Pennyz-too-much-for-yer-thoughts, have you
met sf? She's a member in annoyingly good standing.

Christonacrutch! ...another one. 8/

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!

flomgom wrote:

> Are you some kinda anal bitch whose gonna

Penny should take your whining as a compliment. Hate women much?

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:21:52 AM UTC-5, Bull wrote:
>
> Chickens are such nasty dead things. I always buy organic
> chicken. Organic salmonella is much better for you.
>
> BULL
>
>
Hahahahaaaa, I love the last statement! But YES, I rinse my birds off and then the sink gets scrubbed and utensils get a good washing with hot soapy water.

On 11 Apr 2012 23:03:48 GMT, notbob > wrote:

> Pennyz-too-much-for-yer-thoughts, have you
> met sf? She's a member in annoyingly good standing.

LOL! He can dish it out but he can't take it.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 4/11/2012 5:03 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2012-04-11, > wrote:
>
>> "I've discovered most cryopak meats have
>> that soupy slimey residue juice, which when exposed to hot tap water,
>> will partially cook the proteins in the slime and gum up everything,
>> including the plumbing. Better to use warm water and a sanitizing
>> agent, like chlorine bleach."
>>
>> Perhaps you didn't mean to make that claim, but the wording of your
>> comment does make it appear that you did indeed claim it.
>
> Are you some kinda anal bitch whose gonna nit-pick every word I write?


Heyyyup! That's me, darlin'. Nice to meetcha!

On 4/11/2012 7:06 PM, sf wrote:
> On 11 Apr 2012 23:03:48 GMT, > wrote:
>
>> Pennyz-too-much-for-yer-thoughts, have you
>> met sf? She's a member in annoyingly good standing.
>
> LOL! He can dish it out but he can't take it.
>

My experience is that once the criticisms reach "anal bitch," a nerve
has been hit.

<and that's all I need to know>

I always wash chicken or any other meat I intend cooking; who knows where it's been in the packaging process. It could have been laying on the floor over there for all we know. I think its necessary and not doing it could be too bad.