On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 4/11/2012 10:33 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>
>> I bet you can find a "how-to" knead video at youtube.... I've been
>> using my mixer dough hook - I love French bread - be sure to get a
>> mister with water, and mist the loaves in the oven at the beginning of
>> the baking and maybe once during so the loaves will have a nice
>> crust. It isn't particularly light - my neighbor and I once ate a
>> whole loaf right out of the oven with a handy stick of real butter....
>> in France, we were always served unsalted butter and then sprinkled a
>> little salt on it. That was really good.
>
>I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used said
>to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to knead it
>by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>next time.

There are bread recipes in your KitchenAid recipe book that came with
the machine. It's always easiest to learn that way.
Janet US

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:16:19 -1000, dsi1 >
wrote:

>On 4/12/2012 10:16 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>> Sure, I have done that before. Focaccia and bread sticks and soft pretzels
>> are all made that way. I never gave it a name I just kneaded it in the bowl
>> with my fingers rather than on a board. And I do use oil. With focaccia I
>> use a lot of olive oil.
>>
>> Paul
>
>I have been kneading in a bowl too. It's easier and less messy. You can
>only use one hand but I only make small batches so it's do-able for me.
>I don't use oil in my dough. Perhaps I should try and see how it turns out.

He may be kneading in a bowl with oil, but I don't advise it . The
process that was being discussed 'Stretch and Fold' is for dough
that can't be kneaded in the traditional way because it is very, very
soupy.
Janet US

On 4/13/2012 9:43 PM, ImStillMags wrote:

> I went off wheat and found I really can't do that anymore. I used to
> bake a lot. In fact my multigrain bread recipe was a crowing
> achievement for me. I was so bummed when I found out I was
> intolerant. But I have reaped the rewards of not eating wheat any
> more.
>
> I basically gave up breakmaking because gluten free breads SUCK. I
> found a recipe on the site that
> Boron referred to that looks like it might make an actual loaf of
> bread. I am going to try that soon. I hear you
> when you say you eat too much bread if it's fresh made. I could do
> that in a heartbeat I loved it so much.
>
> If you would like to try my recipe and tell me how it came out for
> you, please do. I can live vicariously through you!!!:-)
>
> http://hizzoners.com/recipes/breakfa...ti-grain-bread

Thanks for the recipe! I'm not intolerant to gluten that I know of, but
eating too much yeasty bread will cause ... well, TMI. I will try your
recipe because it looks healthy and with lots of fiber which I need.

After the replies about youtube for kneading, I found this video where
the guy makes it look so easy that I'm going to try his method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTY4WJRSzY8

On 4/13/2012 10:27 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/11/2012 10:33 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>>> I bet you can find a "how-to" knead video at youtube.... I've been
>>> using my mixer dough hook - I love French bread - be sure to get a
>>> mister with water, and mist the loaves in the oven at the beginning of
>>> the baking and maybe once during so the loaves will have a nice
>>> crust. It isn't particularly light - my neighbor and I once ate a
>>> whole loaf right out of the oven with a handy stick of real butter....
>>> in France, we were always served unsalted butter and then sprinkled a
>>> little salt on it. That was really good.
>>
>> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used said
>> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to knead it
>> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>> next time.
>
> There are bread recipes in your KitchenAid recipe book that came with
> the machine. It's always easiest to learn that way.
> Janet US


The machine is a hand-me-down from my grandmother, so no manual.

dsi1 wrote:

> I have been kneading in a bowl too.

What is "kneading"? This group has a strong preference for "kneeding".

> It's easier and less messy. You can
> only use one hand but I only make small batches so it's do-able for me.
> I don't use oil in my dough. Perhaps I should try and see how it turns out.

Go for it. The flavor and texture are way better with olive oil.

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:01:50 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 4/13/2012 10:27 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/11/2012 10:33 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I bet you can find a "how-to" knead video at youtube.... I've been
>>>> using my mixer dough hook - I love French bread - be sure to get a
>>>> mister with water, and mist the loaves in the oven at the beginning of
>>>> the baking and maybe once during so the loaves will have a nice
>>>> crust. It isn't particularly light - my neighbor and I once ate a
>>>> whole loaf right out of the oven with a handy stick of real butter....
>>>> in France, we were always served unsalted butter and then sprinkled a
>>>> little salt on it. That was really good.
>>>
>>> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used said
>>> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to knead it
>>> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>>> next time.
>>
>> There are bread recipes in your KitchenAid recipe book that came with
>> the machine. It's always easiest to learn that way.
>> Janet US
>
>
>The machine is a hand-me-down from my grandmother, so no manual.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2157001_make...aid-mixer.html
and
http://www.food.com/recipe/old-relia...d-mixers-52289
Just type KitchenAid mixer bread recipes in your search engine. Lots
of help out there. For more specific help, go to alt.bread.recipes
and just ask a question or pose a problem. Lots of very skilled and
nice people there.
Janet US

On 4/13/2012 11:11 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:01:50 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/13/2012 10:27 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/11/2012 10:33 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I bet you can find a "how-to" knead video at youtube.... I've been
>>>>> using my mixer dough hook - I love French bread - be sure to get a
>>>>> mister with water, and mist the loaves in the oven at the beginning of
>>>>> the baking and maybe once during so the loaves will have a nice
>>>>> crust. It isn't particularly light - my neighbor and I once ate a
>>>>> whole loaf right out of the oven with a handy stick of real butter....
>>>>> in France, we were always served unsalted butter and then sprinkled a
>>>>> little salt on it. That was really good.
>>>>
>>>> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used said
>>>> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to knead it
>>>> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>>>> next time.
>>>
>>> There are bread recipes in your KitchenAid recipe book that came with
>>> the machine. It's always easiest to learn that way.
>>> Janet US
>>
>>
>> The machine is a hand-me-down from my grandmother, so no manual.
>
> http://www.ehow.com/how_2157001_make...aid-mixer.html
> and
> http://www.food.com/recipe/old-relia...d-mixers-52289
> Just type KitchenAid mixer bread recipes in your search engine. Lots
> of help out there. For more specific help, go to alt.bread.recipes
> and just ask a question or pose a problem. Lots of very skilled and
> nice people there.


Ok, thanks!

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
news
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:16:19 -1000, dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>>On 4/12/2012 10:16 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>
>>> Sure, I have done that before. Focaccia and bread sticks and soft
>>> pretzels
>>> are all made that way. I never gave it a name I just kneaded it in the
>>> bowl
>>> with my fingers rather than on a board. And I do use oil. With
>>> focaccia I
>>> use a lot of olive oil.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>I have been kneading in a bowl too. It's easier and less messy. You can
>>only use one hand but I only make small batches so it's do-able for me.
>>I don't use oil in my dough. Perhaps I should try and see how it turns
>>out.
>
> He may be kneading in a bowl with oil, but I don't advise it . The
> process that was being discussed 'Stretch and Fold' is for dough
> that can't be kneaded in the traditional way because it is very, very
> soupy.
> Janet US

The hand and bowl method was never something I saw in a book I just found it
easier and less messy. You can also use a plastic scraper if it is coated
in oil.

Paul

On 4/13/2012 11:41 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 4/13/2012 11:11 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:01:50 -0400, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/13/2012 10:27 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/11/2012 10:33 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I bet you can find a "how-to" knead video at youtube.... I've been
>>>>>> using my mixer dough hook - I love French bread - be sure to get a
>>>>>> mister with water, and mist the loaves in the oven at the
>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>>> the baking and maybe once during so the loaves will have a nice
>>>>>> crust. It isn't particularly light - my neighbor and I once ate a
>>>>>> whole loaf right out of the oven with a handy stick of real
>>>>>> butter....
>>>>>> in France, we were always served unsalted butter and then sprinkled a
>>>>>> little salt on it. That was really good.
>>>>>
>>>>> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used
>>>>> said
>>>>> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to
>>>>> knead it
>>>>> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>>>>> next time.
>>>>
>>>> There are bread recipes in your KitchenAid recipe book that came with
>>>> the machine. It's always easiest to learn that way.
>>>> Janet US
>>>
>>>
>>> The machine is a hand-me-down from my grandmother, so no manual.
>>
>> http://www.ehow.com/how_2157001_make...aid-mixer.html
>> and
>> http://www.food.com/recipe/old-relia...d-mixers-52289
>>
>> Just type KitchenAid mixer bread recipes in your search engine. Lots
>> of help out there. For more specific help, go to alt.bread.recipes
>> and just ask a question or pose a problem. Lots of very skilled and
>> nice people there.
>
>
> Ok, thanks!
>
I'm making another two loaves tonight because we're helping my sister
move tomorrow. Her kids LOVE bread and I figure the carbs will keep
them moving to help. They're 12 so they get bored quickly. I think if we
have some fresh bread with butter for quick carb eating breaks they'll
stay moving.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 00:27:20 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 4/13/2012 11:41 PM, Cheryl wrote:
>> On 4/13/2012 11:11 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:01:50 -0400, >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/13/2012 10:27 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/11/2012 10:33 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bet you can find a "how-to" knead video at youtube.... I've been
>>>>>>> using my mixer dough hook - I love French bread - be sure to get a
>>>>>>> mister with water, and mist the loaves in the oven at the
>>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>>>> the baking and maybe once during so the loaves will have a nice
>>>>>>> crust. It isn't particularly light - my neighbor and I once ate a
>>>>>>> whole loaf right out of the oven with a handy stick of real
>>>>>>> butter....
>>>>>>> in France, we were always served unsalted butter and then sprinkled a
>>>>>>> little salt on it. That was really good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to
>>>>>> knead it
>>>>>> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>>>>>> next time.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are bread recipes in your KitchenAid recipe book that came with
>>>>> the machine. It's always easiest to learn that way.
>>>>> Janet US
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The machine is a hand-me-down from my grandmother, so no manual.
>>>
>>> http://www.ehow.com/how_2157001_make...aid-mixer.html
>>> and
>>> http://www.food.com/recipe/old-relia...d-mixers-52289
>>>
>>> Just type KitchenAid mixer bread recipes in your search engine. Lots
>>> of help out there. For more specific help, go to alt.bread.recipes
>>> and just ask a question or pose a problem. Lots of very skilled and
>>> nice people there.
>>
>>
>> Ok, thanks!
>>
>I'm making another two loaves tonight because we're helping my sister
>move tomorrow. Her kids LOVE bread and I figure the carbs will keep
>them moving to help. They're 12 so they get bored quickly. I think if we
>have some fresh bread with butter for quick carb eating breaks they'll
>stay moving.

Are you kidding???? Those 12 yo kids will make that bread disappear in
one sitting. Silly woman;o)
Janet US

On 4/14/2012 1:08 AM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 00:27:20 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/13/2012 11:41 PM, Cheryl wrote:
>>> On 4/13/2012 11:11 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 23:01:50 -0400, >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/13/2012 10:27 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/11/2012 10:33 AM, Nancy2 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I bet you can find a "how-to" knead video at youtube.... I've been
>>>>>>>> using my mixer dough hook - I love French bread - be sure to get a
>>>>>>>> mister with water, and mist the loaves in the oven at the
>>>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>>>>> the baking and maybe once during so the loaves will have a nice
>>>>>>>> crust. It isn't particularly light - my neighbor and I once ate a
>>>>>>>> whole loaf right out of the oven with a handy stick of real
>>>>>>>> butter....
>>>>>>>> in France, we were always served unsalted butter and then sprinkled a
>>>>>>>> little salt on it. That was really good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to
>>>>>>> knead it
>>>>>>> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>>>>>>> next time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are bread recipes in your KitchenAid recipe book that came with
>>>>>> the machine. It's always easiest to learn that way.
>>>>>> Janet US
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The machine is a hand-me-down from my grandmother, so no manual.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ehow.com/how_2157001_make...aid-mixer.html
>>>> and
>>>> http://www.food.com/recipe/old-relia...d-mixers-52289
>>>>
>>>> Just type KitchenAid mixer bread recipes in your search engine. Lots
>>>> of help out there. For more specific help, go to alt.bread.recipes
>>>> and just ask a question or pose a problem. Lots of very skilled and
>>>> nice people there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, thanks!
>>>
>> I'm making another two loaves tonight because we're helping my sister
>> move tomorrow. Her kids LOVE bread and I figure the carbs will keep
>> them moving to help. They're 12 so they get bored quickly. I think if we
>> have some fresh bread with butter for quick carb eating breaks they'll
>> stay moving.
>
> Are you kidding???? Those 12 yo kids will make that bread disappear in
> one sitting. Silly woman;o)
> Janet US

LOL I know. I ran out of yeast.

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:02:05 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

> On 4/11/2012 2:17 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
> > Also, if you make bread often, reserve a piece of the dough and store in the
> > fridge. That will be your "starter" for he next loaf. This is he secret of
> > bakers worldwide. Over time the flavor becomes extraordinary and complex.
>
> Thanks for the kneeding answer, and also for this. My mom asked me if
> the recipe I used asked for a starter and I had no idea what she was
> talking about. I did ask and she told me. And now you have too.

I should probably start doing that with pizza dough, except I don't
make it very often (once a month at the most) and you have to "feed"
the started at least weekly, don't you?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used said
> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to knead it
> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
> next time.

I hope you have the fancy Kitchen Aid. I have the cheap one and it
doesn't like to knead for the 7-10 minutes it takes for bread dough.
The housing gets very, very warm. I wouldn't call it hot, but it
shouldn't heat up like that either.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:29:48 -0500, heyjoe >
wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 01:45:16 -0400, Cheryl wrote:
>
> > I ran out of yeast.
>
> Don't let that limit the number of loaves you make. Unless I'm making
> an enriched bread with lots of sugar and eggs, I normally use half to a
> third of the yeast the recipe calls for. Just need to allow for
> moderately longer rising times.

Agreed. Those yeasties are powerful and all they need is time.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:32:38 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:02:05 -0400, Cheryl >
>wrote:
>
>> On 4/11/2012 2:17 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>> > Also, if you make bread often, reserve a piece of the dough and store in the
>> > fridge. That will be your "starter" for he next loaf. This is he secret of
>> > bakers worldwide. Over time the flavor becomes extraordinary and complex.
>>
>> Thanks for the kneeding answer, and also for this. My mom asked me if
>> the recipe I used asked for a starter and I had no idea what she was
>> talking about. I did ask and she told me. And now you have too.
>
>I should probably start doing that with pizza dough, except I don't
>make it very often (once a month at the most) and you have to "feed"
>the started at least weekly, don't you?

I think Paul is talking about the "old dough" method that should be
used in a couple of days. And you are talking about a sourdough
starter, right? I was wondering what Cheryl's mother was calling a
starter.
Janet US

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:35:10 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, Cheryl >
>wrote:
>
>> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used said
>> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to knead it
>> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
>> next time.
>
>I hope you have the fancy Kitchen Aid. I have the cheap one and it
>doesn't like to knead for the 7-10 minutes it takes for bread dough.
>The housing gets very, very warm. I wouldn't call it hot, but it
>shouldn't heat up like that either.

You can cut the machine kneading short by using a process called
'autolyse.' Mix the wet and dry ingredients until you have a rough,
shaggy mass. Cover the mixer with plastic (a waste basket bag will
do) and leave the mass alone for 10-15 minutes. (technically,
autolyse leaves out the salt until the end, but no matter here). Come
back to the mixer bowl at the end of the rest period and turn the
mixer on to speed two. It should come together almost immediately. I
knead at most 5 minutes. If you do true autolyse, toss the salt in
when you begin to knead after rest. The dough will tighten
significantly as salt tightens gluten.
Janet US

On Apr 13, 9:43*pm, ImStillMags > wrote:
> On Apr 13, 5:25*pm, Cheryl > wrote:
>
> > I've thought about a bread machine and might buy one. *I can eat too
> > much bread if it's fresh made, so by doing it the long way will
> > hopefully keep it down to just when I feel like spending a few hours. *
>
> I went off wheat and found I really can't do that anymore. * I used to
> bake a lot. *In fact my multigrain bread recipe was a crowing
> achievement for me. * *I was so bummed when I found out I was
> intolerant. * But I have reaped the rewards of not eating wheat any
> more.
>
> I basically gave up breakmaking because gluten free breads SUCK. * *I
> found a recipe on the site that
> Boron referred to that looks like it might make an actual loaf of
> bread. * I am going to try that soon. * I hear you
> when you say you eat too much bread if it's fresh made. * I could do
> that in a heartbeat I loved it so much.
> try your recipe -
> If you would like to try my recipe and tell me how it came out for
> you, please do. * I can live vicariously through you!!! * :-)
>
> http://hizzoners.com/recipes/breakfa...ti-grain-bread

I'm going to try your recipe - will report back here someday. At
least you don't call for a lot of hard to find ingreeds.

So I baked a loaf after freezing it after the second rising. I let it
sit under the range hood lamps to thaw and then did the diagonal slits
and it baked just as wonderful as if it was freshly made and not frozen.
I did the steam thing in the oven and boy did my oven make noises! I
think doing it this way made it even more crusty. Hard crusty exterior
and still a tender interior. Very good result. This time it didn't
have an egg wash and I think it's better without it.

Got my sister moved and my back is killing me. I had to limit my help
to light boxes and no stairs.

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:32:38 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:02:05 -0400, Cheryl >
>>wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/11/2012 2:17 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>
>>> > Also, if you make bread often, reserve a piece of the dough and store
>>> > in the
>>> > fridge. That will be your "starter" for he next loaf. This is he
>>> > secret of
>>> > bakers worldwide. Over time the flavor becomes extraordinary and
>>> > complex.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the kneeding answer, and also for this. My mom asked me if
>>> the recipe I used asked for a starter and I had no idea what she was
>>> talking about. I did ask and she told me. And now you have too.
>>
>>I should probably start doing that with pizza dough, except I don't
>>make it very often (once a month at the most) and you have to "feed"
>>the started at least weekly, don't you?
>
> I think Paul is talking about the "old dough" method that should be
> used in a couple of days. And you are talking about a sourdough
> starter, right? I was wondering what Cheryl's mother was calling a
> starter.


Yes, old dough method. Back in the day people baked bread every day so they
just reserved a chunk of dough for the next day's batch. Works just like
starter. The yeast develops a very nice flavor over time. It's just like
reserving some sponge from a sourdough starter. But it does not keep well
at room temperature. Best kept in the fridge. It can last 5 days in a
refrigerator.

Paul

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:02:05 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/11/2012 2:17 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>> > Also, if you make bread often, reserve a piece of the dough and store
>> > in the
>> > fridge. That will be your "starter" for he next loaf. This is he
>> > secret of
>> > bakers worldwide. Over time the flavor becomes extraordinary and
>> > complex.
>>
>> Thanks for the kneeding answer, and also for this. My mom asked me if
>> the recipe I used asked for a starter and I had no idea what she was
>> talking about. I did ask and she told me. And now you have too.
>
> I should probably start doing that with pizza dough, except I don't
> make it very often (once a month at the most) and you have to "feed"
> the started at least weekly, don't you?
>

If you do not use the starter every several days to a week, you do need to
feed it. Typcially you use rye flour, ad it to the starter and let if
ferment for a day then back in the fridge. Once per month you shouold empty
the starter into a sanitized container and feed it and let it ferment again
for a day. That keeps the yeast happy. But using it once per week is all
you need to do typically. Get used to making sourdough biscuits for Sunday
breakfast, for example or maybe pancakes.

Paul

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:49:08 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:35:10 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:16:11 -0400, Cheryl >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I forgot the water part of the baking technique! The recipe I used said
> >> to use the kitchen aid dough hook, which I did, then it said to knead it
> >> by hand. I'll have to try letting the dough hook do all the kneading
> >> next time.
> >
> >I hope you have the fancy Kitchen Aid. I have the cheap one and it
> >doesn't like to knead for the 7-10 minutes it takes for bread dough.
> >The housing gets very, very warm. I wouldn't call it hot, but it
> >shouldn't heat up like that either.
>
> You can cut the machine kneading short by using a process called
> 'autolyse.' Mix the wet and dry ingredients until you have a rough,
> shaggy mass. Cover the mixer with plastic (a waste basket bag will
> do) and leave the mass alone for 10-15 minutes. (technically,
> autolyse leaves out the salt until the end, but no matter here). Come
> back to the mixer bowl at the end of the rest period and turn the
> mixer on to speed two. It should come together almost immediately. I
> knead at most 5 minutes. If you do true autolyse, toss the salt in
> when you begin to knead after rest. The dough will tighten
> significantly as salt tightens gluten.
> Janet US

Thanks, Janet. I've never heard that term before.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:42:44 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

> I think Paul is talking about the "old dough" method that should be
> used in a couple of days. And you are talking about a sourdough
> starter, right? I was wondering what Cheryl's mother was calling a
> starter.

To be perfectly honest, I had no idea what I was talking about. That
friendship starter thing has to be fed and sourdough has to be fed so
I thought they all had to be fed.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

instead of kneading, because of my hands i do "stretch and fold" i am
incapable of explaining but if you ask on the bread group barry will
explain, Lee
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
.com...
> I've never mastered the art of bread making but have been trying some
> lately since getting my new oven. I made some crusty french bread the
> other day and the recipe I used made two big loaves so one is in the
> freezer after the second raising but is uncooked. The first loaf turned
> out really good but not light. Is french bread supposed to be that way?
> Very little in the way of holes but there were some in the seams. I used
> a method that said to pinch all of the seams including the ends.
>
> How exactly do you knead bread? My ball didn't turn out smooth like the
> picture before I let it rise for an hour, actually a bit more, but it more
> than doubled. I let it rise another half hour after forming the loaves.
> I guess french bread will be different since there is no oil or eggs.
>
> What's a good method for kneading?

remember to let it thaw all the way before baking, Lee
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 4/11/2012 7:53 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
>
>> I'm no expert either- but did the directions say to freeze after the
>> 'second raising'[i.e. 'proofing']? My instincts would have been to
>> either freeze after the first raising, or after baking.
>
> It didn't have freezing tips. I thought about some of the "ready to bake"
> breads and they don't normally say to let rise before baking, so I went
> for after the second rise. I wanted it to be ready to bake, not already
> cooked to freeze it.

and besides if you can't describe the difference between the two you
obviously don't know it all... i am a relative newcomer to breadbaking and
even I know that... thanks to people like janet and boron, Lee
"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:01:57 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:16:37 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:46:14 -0700, "Paul M. Cook" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>snip
>>>>> No need for a war. It is an absolute fact that gluten does develop
>>>>> without kneading. That is the basis of all no-knead breads. That is
>>>>> one of the purposes of autolyse. It is why Stretch and Fold works.
>>>>
>>>>Kneeding is stretching and folding. I've baked bread since I was 12
>>>>ands
>>>>that's how I do it. Stretch, fold, rotate repeat.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not advocating that everyone give up kneading. Just pointing out
>>>>> that there are ways to use various properties of the dough to your
>>>>> advantage.
>>>>
>>>>Sure. Overkneaded bread has a whole different texture. Some breads I
>>>>underknead such as pizza dough.
>>>>
>>>>Paul
>>>>
>>> Just because you have been making bread since you were 12 doesn't mean
>>> that you can't learn some more about the subject.
>>
>>Doesn't mean I can. I could write a book on bread baking. Hmmm .....
>>
>>> Stretch and Fold is not what you refer to as kneading. It is a
>>> different process entirely.
>>
>>OK, so how is it different? Better yet, how is it entirely different?
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
> If you could write a book on bread baking, surely you already know
> this information about stretch and fold techniques.
>
> So far, two people have told you that your are incorrect about
> kneading being required and the science behind that refutation has
> been presented to you. That you are too stubborn or stupid to
> comprehend it is not the fault of anyone but you.
>
> Go on....provide proof that kneading is necessary.
>
> Boron

and if you try that gluton free one, report and recipe anxiously awaited,
Lee
"ImStillMags" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 13, 5:25 pm, Cheryl > wrote:

> I've thought about a bread machine and might buy one. I can eat too
> much bread if it's fresh made, so by doing it the long way will
> hopefully keep it down to just when I feel like spending a few hours.


I went off wheat and found I really can't do that anymore. I used to
bake a lot. In fact my multigrain bread recipe was a crowing
achievement for me. I was so bummed when I found out I was
intolerant. But I have reaped the rewards of not eating wheat any
more.

I basically gave up breakmaking because gluten free breads SUCK. I
found a recipe on the site that
Boron referred to that looks like it might make an actual loaf of
bread. I am going to try that soon. I hear you
when you say you eat too much bread if it's fresh made. I could do
that in a heartbeat I loved it so much.

If you would like to try my recipe and tell me how it came out for
you, please do. I can live vicariously through you!!! :-)

http://hizzoners.com/recipes/breakfa...ti-grain-bread