We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. Not only did I get a better angle to
see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of lettuce in their
untampered with state. Those things were HUGE! I don't know where they get
them that size. Even the Cash and Carry had heads no bigger than what I
bought at the grocery store.

So now I know how they make the wrap They start with several large pieces
on the bottom. Daughter said it looked like 4. They put the filling in,
add another piece of lettuce on top then put it on the paper and wrap it up
like a burrito. There is tape to keep it closed.

Apparently they do cut the head into wedges. I think they use the outer
leaves for the wraps and the inner leaves to shred for the sandwiches.

I think I might have to cut my heads in half. That might give me big enough
pieces.

Julie Bove wrote:
> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. Not only did I get a better
> angle to see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of
> lettuce in their untampered with state. Those things were HUGE! I
> don't know where they get them that size. Even the Cash and Carry
> had heads no bigger than what I bought at the grocery store.
>
> So now I know how they make the wrap They start with several large
> pieces on the bottom. Daughter said it looked like 4. They put the
> filling in, add another piece of lettuce on top then put it on the
> paper and wrap it up like a burrito. There is tape to keep it closed.
>
> Apparently they do cut the head into wedges. I think they use the
> outer leaves for the wraps and the inner leaves to shred for the
> sandwiches.
> I think I might have to cut my heads in half. That might give me big
> enough pieces.

Julie, you want to core the lettuce by smashing it on a table,
core end down, like this energetic gentleman:
http://video.answers.com/how-to-core...tuce-517192601
After doing that, the leaves literally fall apart. Big leaves, easily.

pavane

"pavane" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. Not only did I get a better
>> angle to see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of
>> lettuce in their untampered with state. Those things were HUGE! I
>> don't know where they get them that size. Even the Cash and Carry
>> had heads no bigger than what I bought at the grocery store.
>>
>> So now I know how they make the wrap They start with several large
>> pieces on the bottom. Daughter said it looked like 4. They put the
>> filling in, add another piece of lettuce on top then put it on the
>> paper and wrap it up like a burrito. There is tape to keep it closed.
>>
>> Apparently they do cut the head into wedges. I think they use the
>> outer leaves for the wraps and the inner leaves to shred for the
>> sandwiches.
>> I think I might have to cut my heads in half. That might give me big
>> enough pieces.
>
> Julie, you want to core the lettuce by smashing it on a table,
> core end down, like this energetic gentleman:
> http://video.answers.com/how-to-core...tuce-517192601
> After doing that, the leaves literally fall apart. Big leaves, easily.
>
> pavane

I do know how to core it that way. I didn't core it. The woman I spoke to
who owns a Jimmy John's told me to cut it in 6 pieces. As she was talking
she demonstrated by making cutting motions on one hand with the other hand.
So it looked like she was cutting it in 6 wedges. I can easily see how they
did that because their lettuce was so big.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:39:27 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. Not only did I get a better angle
>> to
>> see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of lettuce in
>> their
>> untampered with state. Those things were HUGE! I don't know where they
>> get
>> them that size. Even the Cash and Carry had heads no bigger than what I
>> bought at the grocery store.
>>
>> So now I know how they make the wrap They start with several large
>> pieces
>> on the bottom. Daughter said it looked like 4. They put the filling in,
>> add another piece of lettuce on top then put it on the paper and wrap it
>> up
>> like a burrito. There is tape to keep it closed.
>>
>> Apparently they do cut the head into wedges. I think they use the outer
>> leaves for the wraps and the inner leaves to shred for the sandwiches.
>>
>> I think I might have to cut my heads in half. That might give me big
>> enough
>> pieces.
>
> Cut the heads off the stem about 3-4" from the bottom and you will
> have perfect round crowns for lettuce wraps. They will be fairly easy
> to separate (depending on the head) and the insides can be used for
> salad.
>
> I thought she had been "cleared" to eat bread now. Why the sudden
> lettuce wrap binge? Bread was the hardest thing for me to go without
> on a low carb diet. If I was off the wagon I wouldn't be making
> lettuce wraps.

She is no longer intolerant to wheat but... The Dr. put her on the South
Beach diet. So no carbs for two weeks except for beans. In another week
she can start with one serving of starch and one of fruit per day, working
up to three per day. She will have to eat only whole grains.

So far the weight is not dropping off like the book said it would. She has
lost 5 pounds. Those seemed to drop off after 24 hours. No more weight
loss but... She has also shot up an inch in height since she was last
measured. She looks slimmer.

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. Not only did I get a better angle to
> see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of lettuce in their
> untampered with state. Those things were HUGE! I don't know where they get
> them that size. Even the Cash and Carry had heads no bigger than what I
> bought at the grocery store.

My local farmer's market (Soulard in St. Louis) gets them extra huge at
times. Might want to try your town's local FMs. Your milage may vary.

jt

On Apr 21, 11:49*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:39:27 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> >> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. *Not only did I get a better angle
> >> to
> >> see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of lettuce in
> >> their
> >> untampered with state. *Those things were HUGE! *I don't know where they
> >> get
> >> them that size. *Even the Cash and Carry had heads no bigger than what I
> >> bought at the grocery store.
>
> >> So now I know how they make the wrap *They start with several large
> >> pieces
> >> on the bottom. *Daughter said it looked like 4. *They put the filling in,
> >> add another piece of lettuce on top then put it on the paper and wrap it
> >> up
> >> like a burrito. *There is tape to keep it closed.
>
> >> Apparently they do cut the head into wedges. *I think they use the outer
> >> leaves for the wraps and the inner leaves to shred for the sandwiches.
>
> >> I think I might have to cut my heads in half. *That might give me big
> >> enough
> >> pieces.
>
> > Cut the heads off the stem about 3-4" from the bottom and you will
> > have perfect round crowns for lettuce wraps. *They will be fairly easy
> > to separate (depending on the head) and the insides can be used for
> > salad.
>
> > I thought she had been "cleared" to eat bread now. *Why the sudden
> > lettuce wrap binge? *Bread was the hardest thing for me to go without
> > on a low carb diet. *If I was off the wagon I wouldn't be making
> > lettuce wraps.
>
> She is no longer intolerant to wheat but... *The Dr. put her on the South
> Beach diet. *So no carbs for two weeks except for beans. *In another week
> she can start with one serving of starch and one of fruit per day, working
> up to three per day. *She will have to eat only whole grains.
>
> So far the weight is not dropping off like the book said it would. *She has
> lost 5 pounds. *Those seemed to drop off after 24 hours. *No more weight
> loss but... *She has also shot up an inch in height since she was last
> measured. *She looks slimmer.

Fatties shouldn't be eating ANY starch.

--Bryan

On Apr 21, 11:49*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:39:27 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> >> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. *Not only did I get a better angle
> >> to
> >> see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of lettuce in
> >> their
> >> untampered with state. *Those things were HUGE! *I don't know where they
> >> get
> >> them that size. *Even the Cash and Carry had heads no bigger than what I
> >> bought at the grocery store.
>
> >> So now I know how they make the wrap *They start with several large
> >> pieces
> >> on the bottom. *Daughter said it looked like 4. *They put the filling in,
> >> add another piece of lettuce on top then put it on the paper and wrap it
> >> up
> >> like a burrito. *There is tape to keep it closed.
>
> >> Apparently they do cut the head into wedges. *I think they use the outer
> >> leaves for the wraps and the inner leaves to shred for the sandwiches.
>
> >> I think I might have to cut my heads in half. *That might give me big
> >> enough
> >> pieces.
>
> > Cut the heads off the stem about 3-4" from the bottom and you will
> > have perfect round crowns for lettuce wraps. *They will be fairly easy
> > to separate (depending on the head) and the insides can be used for
> > salad.
>
> > I thought she had been "cleared" to eat bread now. *Why the sudden
> > lettuce wrap binge? *Bread was the hardest thing for me to go without
> > on a low carb diet. *If I was off the wagon I wouldn't be making
> > lettuce wraps.
>
> She is no longer intolerant to wheat but... *The Dr. put her on the South
> Beach diet. *So no carbs for two weeks except for beans. *In another week
> she can start with one serving of starch and one of fruit per day, working
> up to three per day. *She will have to eat only whole grains.
>
> So far the weight is not dropping off like the book said it would. *She has
> lost 5 pounds. *Those seemed to drop off after 24 hours. *No more weight
> loss but... *She has also shot up an inch in height since she was last
> measured. *She looks slimmer.

South Beach is a great diet for a hottie who wants to tighten up a
little bit and stay that way so she'll look great in a monokini, not
for a fat chick. If you wouldn't look good on the South Beach, the
South Beach Diet is not for you. Go hardcore Atkins, and consider
slowly introducing MCT oil. Nothing kick starts ketosis like MCTs.

--Bryan

Bryan wrote:
>
> Fatties shouldn't be eating ANY starch.

Again....weight loss equals less calories and aerobic exercise. Does not
matter at all what you eat as long as the calories are low.

Gary

"jt august" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. Not only did I get a better angle
>> to
>> see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of lettuce in
>> their
>> untampered with state. Those things were HUGE! I don't know where they
>> get
>> them that size. Even the Cash and Carry had heads no bigger than what I
>> bought at the grocery store.
>
> My local farmer's market (Soulard in St. Louis) gets them extra huge at
> times. Might want to try your town's local FMs. Your milage may vary.

I will look. We only have one for a few months out of the year because our
growing season is so short.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Bryan wrote:
>>
>> Fatties shouldn't be eating ANY starch.
>
> Again....weight loss equals less calories and aerobic exercise. Does not
> matter at all what you eat as long as the calories are low.

Not necessarily. She has dropped two more pounds. Simply cutting calories
or eating the vague low carb diet didn't work for her. This seems to be
working.

I lost weight through extreme calorie cutting and weight lifting. But I
couldn't keep it up for more than 3 years. I just felt too crappy and too
hungry all the time.

Bryan wrote:
> On Apr 21, 11:49 pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:39:27 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>>>> We had dinner at Jimmy John's tonight. Not only did I get a better
>>>> angle to
>>>> see them make the unwich but I was able to see the heads of
>>>> lettuce in their
>>>> untampered with state. Those things were HUGE! I don't know where
>>>> they get
>>>> them that size. Even the Cash and Carry had heads no bigger than
>>>> what I bought at the grocery store.
>>
>>>> So now I know how they make the wrap They start with several large
>>>> pieces
>>>> on the bottom. Daughter said it looked like 4. They put the
>>>> filling in, add another piece of lettuce on top then put it on the
>>>> paper and wrap it up
>>>> like a burrito. There is tape to keep it closed.
>>
>>>> Apparently they do cut the head into wedges. I think they use the
>>>> outer leaves for the wraps and the inner leaves to shred for the
>>>> sandwiches.
>>
>>>> I think I might have to cut my heads in half. That might give me
>>>> big enough
>>>> pieces.
>>
>>> Cut the heads off the stem about 3-4" from the bottom and you will
>>> have perfect round crowns for lettuce wraps. They will be fairly
>>> easy to separate (depending on the head) and the insides can be
>>> used for salad.
>>
>>> I thought she had been "cleared" to eat bread now. Why the sudden
>>> lettuce wrap binge? Bread was the hardest thing for me to go without
>>> on a low carb diet. If I was off the wagon I wouldn't be making
>>> lettuce wraps.
>>
>> She is no longer intolerant to wheat but... The Dr. put her on the
>> South Beach diet. So no carbs for two weeks except for beans. In
>> another week she can start with one serving of starch and one of
>> fruit per day, working up to three per day. She will have to eat
>> only whole grains.
>>
>> So far the weight is not dropping off like the book said it would.
>> She has lost 5 pounds. Those seemed to drop off after 24 hours. No
>> more weight loss but... She has also shot up an inch in height since
>> she was last measured. She looks slimmer.
>
> South Beach is a great diet for a hottie who wants to tighten up a
> little bit and stay that way so she'll look great in a monokini, not
> for a fat chick. If you wouldn't look good on the South Beach, the
> South Beach Diet is not for you. Go hardcore Atkins, and consider
> slowly introducing MCT oil. Nothing kick starts ketosis like MCTs.

She's still growing. I don't think Atkins is advised for a kid and there is
no way she could stick to that.

Bryan wrote:
>
<snip>

> I don't think that Gary is hopeless. He just doesn't get it. The
> CICO idea is pervasive, and folks who don't have much reason to care
> about bodyfat easily buy into it. Unfortunately, they spread that
> erroneous attitude to others.

Here's a comment for both you and Marty. You are both on me for spreading
erroneous advice. What about you two? Where are your references to prove
I'm wrong. Just as likely that you two are wrong.

Bryan, I know your diet is working and great that it is. Actually, any and
all diets work if you stick to them. My only issue with you is the high fat
content and very low carb content of your diet. You listed it an previous
thread a few days ago. I do realize that a high fat meal will keep you
satisfied longer than a high carb one. I just question the long term health
of a high fat diet. I just invite you to read everything you can on such a
diet and not just go by Dr.Atkins and his followers.

Marty, I'm having a hard time debating you. You keep saying I contradict
what I previously said. I look back at all my comments and it's the same
with different wording. To me, the CICO is the only way to lose weight and
it actually *is* a math thing. Evidently, I don't express my ideas so well
to leave you two confused.

One thing about usenet I've found. I'm always happy to get into a
constructive debate about conflicting issues. Sadly though, it usually turns
to name calling fairly quickly. For any of us to state our entire case is
hard in an individual post.

Let me try to state my bottom line again and tell me what you think:

Weight loss comes down to burning more calories than you take in.
You can do that by reducing extra calories from food and beverages
and increasing calories burned through physical activity.

Gary

On Apr 24, 4:22*pm, Gary > wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
>
> * <snip>
>
> > I don't think that Gary is hopeless. *He just doesn't get it. *The
> > CICO idea is pervasive, and folks who don't have much reason to care
> > about bodyfat easily buy into it. *Unfortunately, they spread that
> > erroneous attitude to others.
>
> Here's a comment for both you and Marty. *You are both on me for spreading
> erroneous advice. *What about you two? *Where are your references to prove
> I'm wrong. Just as likely that you two are wrong.
>
> Bryan, I know your diet is working and great that it is. Actually, any and
> all diets work if you stick to them. *My only issue with you is the high fat
> content and very low carb content of your diet. *You listed it an previous
> thread a few days ago. *I do realize that a high fat meal will keep you
> satisfied longer than a high carb one. *I just question the long term health
> of a high fat diet. I just invite you to read everything you can on such a
> diet and not just go by Dr.Atkins and his followers.
>
> Marty, I'm having a hard time debating you. *You keep saying I contradict
> what I previously said. I look back at all my comments and it's the same
> with different wording. *To me, the CICO is the only way to lose weight and
> it actually *is* a math thing. Evidently, I don't express my ideas so well
> to leave you two confused.
>
> One thing about usenet I've found. *I'm always happy to get into a
> constructive debate about conflicting issues. Sadly though, it usually turns
> to name calling fairly quickly. *For any of us to state our entire case is
> hard in an individual post.

No hostility between you and me, at least not yet.
>
> Let me try to state my bottom line again and tell me what you think:
>
> Weight loss comes down to burning more calories than you take in.

If you mean that potential energy from digestible energy sources, and
total work and heat produced by the body, you don't account for
unabsorbed fat and ****ed out ketones (though the ****ed out ketones
is admittedly pretty trivial). What you claimed, and the *poorly*
"balanced diet" advocates claim is that apart from the health effects
of carbs or fats, or excess protein, or excess alcohol, or whatever;
what they claim is that the type of calories doesn't matter much.
They often caution against fats because gram-for-gram, fats are more
than twice as rich in calories as carbs or protein.

> You can do that by reducing extra calories from food and beverages
> and increasing calories burned through physical activity.

You can live your life hungry on high carb, or you can live your life
not hungry by limiting carbs. You can limit all calories, but an
adequate protein, high fat regimen is anything but unhealthful when
you're also eating boatloads of veggies. Starches have no benefit at
all for anyone who isn't pathologically underweight. The ketone-
based, low insulin diet is perfectly natural. It's what we are
evolved to eat. Humans are not carnivores. We're omnivores, but
we're not evolved to have unlimited calories, especially not calories
from carbs.

Some neighborhood kids came by tonight looking for my son, who wasn't
here, and we talked on my front porch about my offer to build one of
them a raised bed for growing tomatoes (for free). I'm happy to do
that because I don't make a lot of charitable contributions--other
than to public radio and some canned food to the church's food bank.
If they'd come by an hour earlier, before I'd had a few (low carb)
beers, I'd probably have done it tonight. Our school district raises
chickens, and one of them was telling me about that, though she spoke
in pretty thick Ebonics, and I in my deafness had some trouble
understanding her, which was awkward for me, though I tried to make
sure she didn't notice.

I am an evangelist for vegetable gardening, and I am thrilled when
kids want to grow their own food, even more than when other adults
want to do so. It gives my life an added measure of meaningfulness to
instill a love of urban/suburban agriculture into others.

--Bryan

but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty days
at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for the
entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Bryan wrote:
>>
> <snip>
>
>> I don't think that Gary is hopeless. He just doesn't get it. The
>> CICO idea is pervasive, and folks who don't have much reason to care
>> about bodyfat easily buy into it. Unfortunately, they spread that
>> erroneous attitude to others.
>
> Here's a comment for both you and Marty. You are both on me for spreading
> erroneous advice. What about you two? Where are your references to prove
> I'm wrong. Just as likely that you two are wrong.
>
> Bryan, I know your diet is working and great that it is. Actually, any and
> all diets work if you stick to them. My only issue with you is the high
> fat
> content and very low carb content of your diet. You listed it an previous
> thread a few days ago. I do realize that a high fat meal will keep you
> satisfied longer than a high carb one. I just question the long term
> health
> of a high fat diet. I just invite you to read everything you can on such a
> diet and not just go by Dr.Atkins and his followers.
>
> Marty, I'm having a hard time debating you. You keep saying I contradict
> what I previously said. I look back at all my comments and it's the same
> with different wording. To me, the CICO is the only way to lose weight
> and
> it actually *is* a math thing. Evidently, I don't express my ideas so well
> to leave you two confused.
>
> One thing about usenet I've found. I'm always happy to get into a
> constructive debate about conflicting issues. Sadly though, it usually
> turns
> to name calling fairly quickly. For any of us to state our entire case is
> hard in an individual post.
>
> Let me try to state my bottom line again and tell me what you think:
>
> Weight loss comes down to burning more calories than you take in.
> You can do that by reducing extra calories from food and beverages
> and increasing calories burned through physical activity.
>
> Gary

On 5/13/2012 6:19 AM, Storrmmee wrote:
> but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty days
> at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for the
> entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee

You must have a very efficient metabolism to have used up
every calorie you ate. Still that is so few calories, it's
hard to believe you lived on that, never mind maintained your
weight.

nancy

Storrmmee wrote:
>
> but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty days
> at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for the
> entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee

Hi Lee,

Just when I thought this issue was put to rest.... heheh (and sigh)

I consider a 400 calorie a day diet very extreme and probably dangerous. And
you did this for 30 days?

When you cut your normal caloric intake way down, your body thinks it's
starving. As a self-defense, your metabolism will slow way down. The only
way to raise it back up and keep burning calories is to exercise aerobically
most days. This will speed up your metabolism and that will last several
hours after the exercise.

If you don't do that, you get results like you did. Very little weight loss
plus you are miserable the entire time with very little food.

I went on an extreme diet once. Only 1000-1200 calories per day. Since I
was eating so low calories I read every book on diet and exercise I could
get my hands on. I figured that if I was going to eat so low, I should make
every calorie count.

I basically did the old food pyramid thing....
-55% carbs
-30% fat
-15% protein

It worked for me but only because I increased my activity. I lost 30 pounds
in 64 days.

That said, obviously someone who is diabetic can't eat the carbs that a
healthy person can, but the calories do count. Calories in vs calories
BURNED is the answer to weight loss.

IMO - best diet is to not change your diet (assuming you eat
healthy)....just eat a bit less each day and let the weight slowly go
away....not to try to rush it like we both did.

And as always, consult your doctor before starting a diet. What can work
for one person could be extremely dangerous to another person. Your 400
calories a day sounds pretty scary to me.

Gary

i don't care if you beleive it or not, it happened i lived it and i learned
from it that starvation mode is one of my issues, and bear in mind i was
also taking supplements for nutrient support, but it proves the point no one
program fits all, the other one that just killed me was called the
prittiken, sp diet, gained two pounds in 28 days on that one, Lee
"Nancy Young" <replyto@inemail> wrote in message
...
> On 5/13/2012 6:19 AM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty
>> days
>> at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for
>> the
>> entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
>
> You must have a very efficient metabolism to have used up
> every calorie you ate. Still that is so few calories, it's
> hard to believe you lived on that, never mind maintained your
> weight.
>
> nancy

In article >, replyto@inemail
says...
>
> On 5/13/2012 6:19 AM, Storrmmee wrote:
> > but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty days
> > at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for the
> > entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
>
> You must have a very efficient metabolism to have used up
> every calorie you ate. Still that is so few calories, it's
> hard to believe you lived on that, never mind maintained your
> weight.

Unless she was in a coma in a hospital bed.

Janet.

it was extremely scsrey, and starvation mode is one of my issues, i
habitually eat less than i should, i don't often get a snes of hunger, this
is caused alledgely by medications i took as a child for my eyes, its a pity
it took fourty years to figure all this out, and why i am disagreeing with
you is that i find if i eat as i normally do/would prefer but cut down i
also don't lose because my body requires animal protien to not be in
starvation mode... given my choice/tastes i would rarely eat any meat except
the occasion turkey or bacon, but not eating meat makes me not do so well,
my real point is that calorie control and exercise are only part of the
equasion, it also takes knowing your body to eat what it needs to do well in
a losing mode, Lee
"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>>
>> but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty
>> days
>> at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for
>> the
>> entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
>
> Hi Lee,
>
> Just when I thought this issue was put to rest.... heheh (and sigh)
>
>
> I consider a 400 calorie a day diet very extreme and probably dangerous.
> And
> you did this for 30 days?
>
> When you cut your normal caloric intake way down, your body thinks it's
> starving. As a self-defense, your metabolism will slow way down. The only
> way to raise it back up and keep burning calories is to exercise
> aerobically
> most days. This will speed up your metabolism and that will last several
> hours after the exercise.
>
> If you don't do that, you get results like you did. Very little weight
> loss
> plus you are miserable the entire time with very little food.
>
> I went on an extreme diet once. Only 1000-1200 calories per day. Since I
> was eating so low calories I read every book on diet and exercise I could
> get my hands on. I figured that if I was going to eat so low, I should
> make
> every calorie count.
>
> I basically did the old food pyramid thing....
> -55% carbs
> -30% fat
> -15% protein
>
> It worked for me but only because I increased my activity. I lost 30
> pounds
> in 64 days.
>
> That said, obviously someone who is diabetic can't eat the carbs that a
> healthy person can, but the calories do count. Calories in vs calories
> BURNED is the answer to weight loss.
>
> IMO - best diet is to not change your diet (assuming you eat
> healthy)....just eat a bit less each day and let the weight slowly go
> away....not to try to rush it like we both did.
>
> And as always, consult your doctor before starting a diet. What can work
> for one person could be extremely dangerous to another person. Your 400
> calories a day sounds pretty scary to me.
>
> Gary

On 5/13/2012 7:38 AM, Storrmmee wrote:
> i don't care if you beleive it or not, it happened i lived it and i learned
> from it that starvation mode is one of my issues, and bear in mind i was
> also taking supplements for nutrient support, but it proves the point no one
> program fits all, the other one that just killed me was called the
> prittiken, sp diet, gained two pounds in 28 days on that one, Lee
> "Nancy Young"<replyto@inemail> wrote in message
> ...
>> On 5/13/2012 6:19 AM, Storrmmee wrote:
>>> but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty
>>> days
>>> at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for
>>> the
>>> entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
>>
>> You must have a very efficient metabolism to have used up
>> every calorie you ate. Still that is so few calories, it's
>> hard to believe you lived on that, never mind maintained your
>> weight.

Don't jump on me, I didn't call you a liar.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
>Storrmmee wrote:
>> i don't care if you beleive it or not, Lee
>> "Nancy Young" wrote:
>>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>>> but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty
>>>> days
>>>> at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for
>>>> the
>>>> entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
>>>
>>> You must have a very efficient metabolism to have used up
>>> every calorie you ate. Still that is so few calories, it's
>>> hard to believe you lived on that, never mind maintained your
>>> weight.
>
>Don't jump on me, I didn't call you a liar.

Relax, Nancy... she's just reminding you that she's psychotic. I
can't fathom why relatively sane people attempt normal discourse with
that nut case. Anyway I'll call her a liar because that's exactly
what Lee is, a big FAT LIAR!

"hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
"Nancy Young" <replyto@inemail> wrote in message
...
> On 5/13/2012 7:38 AM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> i don't care if you beleive it or not, it happened i lived it and i
>> learned
>> from it that starvation mode is one of my issues, and bear in mind i was
>> also taking supplements for nutrient support, but it proves the point no
>> one
>> program fits all, the other one that just killed me was called the
>> prittiken, sp diet, gained two pounds in 28 days on that one, Lee
>> "Nancy Young"<replyto@inemail> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 5/13/2012 6:19 AM, Storrmmee wrote:
>>>> but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty
>>>> days
>>>> at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for
>>>> the
>>>> entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
>>>
>>> You must have a very efficient metabolism to have used up
>>> every calorie you ate. Still that is so few calories, it's
>>> hard to believe you lived on that, never mind maintained your
>>> weight.
>
> Don't jump on me, I didn't call you a liar.
>
> nancy

Storrmmee wrote:
>
> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee

Lee, I believe that you survived a month on only 400 calories a day too.
But I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
that. NO way@

Don't believe what I wrote before if you choose...better that you check it
out for yourself. You say you need more protein...fine, eat more. Different
people do better with different diets.

Next time you do a diet, learn more about what happens and do it right.

Calories in vs calories burned is the only way to lose weight.

Gary

PS - I should have stayed out of this...just waiting for Brian and Marty to
get on my case once again. ;o Just keep in mind fellows, I've done the
research too.

this is where assuming is gonna get you in trouble, 400 calories is extreme
but what did i say that indicated it wasn't under medical supervision? I
have done research and i agreed with everything until you state again about
calories in/out, once again that is only a part of the equasion... Lee
"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>>
>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>
> Lee, I believe that you survived a month on only 400 calories a day too.
> But I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
> that. NO way@
>
> Don't believe what I wrote before if you choose...better that you check it
> out for yourself. You say you need more protein...fine, eat more.
> Different
> people do better with different diets.
>
> Next time you do a diet, learn more about what happens and do it right.
>
> Calories in vs calories burned is the only way to lose weight.
>
> Gary
>
> PS - I should have stayed out of this...just waiting for Brian and Marty
> to
> get on my case once again. ;o Just keep in mind fellows, I've done the
> research too.

"Gary" > wrote in message ...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>>
>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>
> Lee, I believe that you survived a month on only 400 calories a day too.
> But I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
> that. NO way@

My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. She did lose weight but
wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.

"Storrmmee" > wrote in message
...
> it was extremely scsrey, and starvation mode is one of my issues, i
> habitually eat less than i should, i don't often get a snes of hunger,
> this is caused alledgely by medications i took as a child for my eyes, its
> a pity it took fourty years to figure all this out, and why i am
> disagreeing with you is that i find if i eat as i normally do/would prefer
> but cut down i also don't lose because my body requires animal protien to
> not be in starvation mode... given my choice/tastes i would rarely eat any
> meat except the occasion turkey or bacon, but not eating meat makes me not
> do so well, my real point is that calorie control and exercise are only
> part of the equasion, it also takes knowing your body to eat what it needs
> to do well in a losing mode, Lee

My body is all messed up too. I did have a bad patch as a teen where I went
into sort of an anorexia following some sort of bad stomach ailment. The
Dr. never did figure out what I had. But it involved projectile vomiting.
Once my stomach healed I was so afraid of food, I just wouldn't eat. My
mind wasn't in a place that made me realize that continuing to not eat would
eventually kill me. All I would take in was water and diet soda. I had
started out being underweight (although I was a voracious eater prior) and
became dangerously underweight.

The Dr. gave me something to pep up my appetite. He said it was vitamins
but I suspect it was something else. It was a prescription and I only took
it for maybe two weeks. That stuff made me so hungry I ate a whole box of
saltines and a jar of peanut butter before dinner! And then I wanted
dinner. My mom's friend who was a nurse was mortified and told my mom that
wasn't normal.

I quickly packed the weight back on and then some. For the first time in my
life I was finally a normal weight. But to me I felt huge because I was
unaccustomed to that.

I maintained that weight for a while into adulthood, only losing some when I
had a very physically demanding job and at the same time going through
financial difficulties so that my food was limited. I studied nutrition to
get the maximum bang for my buck but subsisted on the same meals day after
day for about two weeks. I did lose some weight. But not a lot.

Following that my weight crept up and I've had a problem with it ever since.
I have found at times (but not always) that if I eat too little food, I will
not lose weight at all. I seem to have to increase the amount of food I am
eating before the weight will come off.

Right now I am going through some weird stuff. I had gained 6 pounds for no
apparent reason. Then I changed my diet because of the food intolerances
and those 6 pounds dropped right off. Then I started having trouble with
hypos (low blood sugar) and started having to eat a lot of candy. You would
think that would have caused me to gain weight. Right? Nope. I didn't.

Then I had a migraine that lasted for about 3 days. And when I get them it
affects my stomach. Well my stomach is still affected. I have very little
appetite and when I do eat, I get full very quickly. So I am eating less
food and only easily digested stuff like white rice. And I am losing weight.
Go figure!

"Julie Bove" wrote:
>"Gary" wrote:
>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>>
>>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>>
>> I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
>> that.
>
>My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. She did lose weight but
>wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.

Well of course she didn't stayu on it long, she lasted on that diet
about two weeks, then she died.

Shelley reminisces.

> >My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. She did lose weight but
> >wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.
>
> Well of course she didn't stayu on it long, she lasted on that diet
> about two weeks, then she died.

.... and then you took her. m-m-m-GOOD!

the only reason i stayed on it was to try and figure out once and for what i
needed to do, and this was a first step in many to figure out what my body
was doing, Lee
"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gary" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>>
>>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>>
>> Lee, I believe that you survived a month on only 400 calories a day too.
>> But I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
>> that. NO way@
>
> My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. She did lose weight but
> wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.
>
>

i completely understand, and everyone who doesn't should count their
blessings, it seems that the meds i took for my eyes in early childhood
affected my metabolic rate, Lee
"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Storrmmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> it was extremely scsrey, and starvation mode is one of my issues, i
>> habitually eat less than i should, i don't often get a snes of hunger,
>> this is caused alledgely by medications i took as a child for my eyes,
>> its a pity it took fourty years to figure all this out, and why i am
>> disagreeing with you is that i find if i eat as i normally do/would
>> prefer but cut down i also don't lose because my body requires animal
>> protien to not be in starvation mode... given my choice/tastes i would
>> rarely eat any meat except the occasion turkey or bacon, but not eating
>> meat makes me not do so well, my real point is that calorie control and
>> exercise are only part of the equasion, it also takes knowing your body
>> to eat what it needs to do well in a losing mode, Lee
>
> My body is all messed up too. I did have a bad patch as a teen where I
> went into sort of an anorexia following some sort of bad stomach ailment.
> The Dr. never did figure out what I had. But it involved projectile
> vomiting. Once my stomach healed I was so afraid of food, I just wouldn't
> eat. My mind wasn't in a place that made me realize that continuing to
> not eat would eventually kill me. All I would take in was water and diet
> soda. I had started out being underweight (although I was a voracious
> eater prior) and became dangerously underweight.
>
> The Dr. gave me something to pep up my appetite. He said it was vitamins
> but I suspect it was something else. It was a prescription and I only
> took it for maybe two weeks. That stuff made me so hungry I ate a whole
> box of saltines and a jar of peanut butter before dinner! And then I
> wanted dinner. My mom's friend who was a nurse was mortified and told my
> mom that wasn't normal.
>
> I quickly packed the weight back on and then some. For the first time in
> my life I was finally a normal weight. But to me I felt huge because I
> was unaccustomed to that.
>
> I maintained that weight for a while into adulthood, only losing some when
> I had a very physically demanding job and at the same time going through
> financial difficulties so that my food was limited. I studied nutrition
> to get the maximum bang for my buck but subsisted on the same meals day
> after day for about two weeks. I did lose some weight. But not a lot.
>
> Following that my weight crept up and I've had a problem with it ever
> since. I have found at times (but not always) that if I eat too little
> food, I will not lose weight at all. I seem to have to increase the
> amount of food I am eating before the weight will come off.
>
> Right now I am going through some weird stuff. I had gained 6 pounds for
> no apparent reason. Then I changed my diet because of the food
> intolerances and those 6 pounds dropped right off. Then I started having
> trouble with hypos (low blood sugar) and started having to eat a lot of
> candy. You would think that would have caused me to gain weight. Right?
> Nope. I didn't.
>
> Then I had a migraine that lasted for about 3 days. And when I get them
> it affects my stomach. Well my stomach is still affected. I have very
> little appetite and when I do eat, I get full very quickly. So I am
> eating less food and only easily digested stuff like white rice. And I am
> losing weight. Go figure!
>

On May 13, 6:08*am, Gary > wrote:
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
> > but you are wrong, if you were correct the program i was on for thirty days
> > at 400 calories a day would have lost me a lot of weight not 1/2 lb for the
> > entire month, and no i didn't cheat, Lee
>
> Hi Lee,
>
> Just when I thought this issue was put to rest.... *heheh * (and sigh) *
>
> I consider a 400 calorie a day diet very extreme and probably dangerous. And
> you did this for 30 days?
>
> When you cut your normal caloric intake way down, your body thinks it's
> starving. *As a self-defense, your metabolism will slow way down. The only
> way to raise it back up and keep burning calories is to exercise aerobically
> most days. *This will speed up your metabolism and that will last several
> hours after the exercise.
>
> If you don't do that, you get results like you did. Very little weight loss
> plus you are miserable the entire time with very little food.
>
> I went on an extreme diet once. *Only 1000-1200 calories per day. *Since I
> was eating so low calories I read every book on diet and exercise I could
> get my hands on. *I figured that if I was going to eat so low, I should make
> every calorie count.
>
> I basically did the old food pyramid thing....
> -55% carbs
> -30% fat
> -15% protein
>
> It worked for me but only because I increased my activity. I lost 30 pounds
> in 64 days.

I went more extreme, almost no fat, all protein and fruit, and lost a
bunch of fat too, but it was the only time in my life where I had
erectile disfunction. It was freaky. I've had issues with
hypersexuality, but nothing extreme. The low fat diet shut me down
sexually in way way that was unacceptable.
>
> That said, obviously someone who is diabetic can't eat the carbs that a
> healthy person can, but the calories do count. *Calories in vs calories
> BURNED is the answer to weight loss.

That's not exactly true. I agree that "calories do count," but the
type of calories matter a great deal.
>
> IMO - best diet is to not change your diet (assuming you eat
> healthy)....just eat a bit less each day and let the weight slowly go
> away....not to try to rush it like we both did.

If that worked for you, that's great, but it is less likely to work
for anyone who has developed insulin issues.
>
> And as always, consult your doctor before starting a diet. *What can work
> for one person could be extremely dangerous to another person.

Do you believe that a high-fat, low-carb, high veggie diet is
dangerous to anyone other than a person who is underweight or immune
compromised?

>Your 400 calories a day sounds pretty scary to me.

400 calories a day is crazy. That's anorexic shit.
>
> Gary

--Bryan

"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
...
> "Julie Bove" wrote:
>>"Gary" wrote:
>>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>>>
>>> I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
>>> that.
>>
>>My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. She did lose weight but
>>wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.
>
> Well of course she didn't stayu on it long, she lasted on that diet
> about two weeks, then she died.

No. She didn't die. She gained the weight back.

A person who is overweight it not going to die on a diet of 400 calories per
day for two weeks. In fact that is probably all I ate when I had that
migraine. Very small amount of Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal and some white
rice later in the day. When you're sick and don't feel like eating, it is
quite possible.

I am not saying this is advisable for anyone. Losing weight too quickly can
be dangerous in and of itself.

On Sun, 13 May 2012 19:19:19 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
.. .
>> "Julie Bove" wrote:
>>>"Gary" wrote:
>>>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
>>>> that.
>>>
>>>My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. She did lose weight but
>>>wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.
>>
>> Well of course she didn't stayu on it long, she lasted on that diet
>> about two weeks, then she died.
>
>No. She didn't die. She gained the weight back.
>
>A person who is overweight it not going to die on a diet of 400 calories per
>day for two weeks. In fact that is probably all I ate when I had that
>migraine. Very small amount of Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal and some white
>rice later in the day. When you're sick and don't feel like eating, it is
>quite possible.
>
>I am not saying this is advisable for anyone. Losing weight too quickly can
>be dangerous in and of itself.

When too sick to eat much when hospitalized they at least attach you
to a saline and glucose drip. Anyone who voluntarilly goes on a 400
calorie diet to lose weight is definitely mentally ill.

On May 14, 8:54*am, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 May 2012 19:19:19 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
> .. .
> >> "Julie Bove" wrote:
> >>>"Gary" wrote:
> >>>> Storrmmee wrote:
>
> >>>>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>
> >>>> I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
> >>>> that.
>
> >>>My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. *She did lose weight but
> >>>wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.
>
> >> Well of course she didn't stayu on it long, she lasted on that diet
> >> about two weeks, then she died.
>
> >No. *She didn't die. *She gained the weight back.
>
> >A person who is overweight it not going to die on a diet of 400 calories per
> >day for two weeks. *In fact that is probably all I ate when I had that
> >migraine. *Very small amount of Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal and some white
> >rice later in the day. *When you're sick and don't feel like eating, it is
> >quite possible.
>
> >I am not saying this is advisable for anyone. *Losing weight too quickly can
> >be dangerous in and of itself.
>
> When too sick to eat much when hospitalized they at least attach you
> to a saline and glucose drip. *Anyone who voluntarilly goes on a 400
> calorie diet to lose weight is definitely mentally ill.

I agree- do any of these people think about reducing the RDA of
calories by a couple of hundred calories, watch the fat intake, and
get out and walk a bit? 400 calories is too extreme!!

thank you both for your medical advice, where were you when the medical
profession was advising me? LOL, I just love how everyone knows what is
best medically for someone they have never met, when they probably have
little or no medical experience, and even less understanding of a particular
medical field... which is why i always say one size NEVER fits all, Lee
"merryb" > wrote in message
...
On May 14, 8:54 am, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 May 2012 19:19:19 -0700, "Julie Bove"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >"Brooklyn1" <Gravesend1> wrote in message
> .. .
> >> "Julie Bove" wrote:
> >>>"Gary" wrote:
> >>>> Storrmmee wrote:
>
> >>>>> "hard to beleive" came across as that, if not then its all good, Lee
>
> >>>> I don't believe any healthcare professional would have recommended
> >>>> that.
>
> >>>My friend was put on that diet back in the 70's. She did lose weight
> >>>but
> >>>wasn't healthy and didn't manage to stay on it for very long.
>
> >> Well of course she didn't stayu on it long, she lasted on that diet
> >> about two weeks, then she died.
>
> >No. She didn't die. She gained the weight back.
>
> >A person who is overweight it not going to die on a diet of 400 calories
> >per
> >day for two weeks. In fact that is probably all I ate when I had that
> >migraine. Very small amount of Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal and some
> >white
> >rice later in the day. When you're sick and don't feel like eating, it is
> >quite possible.
>
> >I am not saying this is advisable for anyone. Losing weight too quickly
> >can
> >be dangerous in and of itself.
>
> When too sick to eat much when hospitalized they at least attach you
> to a saline and glucose drip. Anyone who voluntarilly goes on a 400
> calorie diet to lose weight is definitely mentally ill.

I agree- do any of these people think about reducing the RDA of
calories by a couple of hundred calories, watch the fat intake, and
get out and walk a bit? 400 calories is too extreme!!