On May 17, 9:43Â*pm, Bryan > wrote:
=
> The vinegar neutralizes the baking soda. Â*If you really do "use baking
> soda and vinegar in the wash," that doesn't surprise me, since you're
> not the brightest bulb on the string.
>
> NaHCO3 + CH3COOH †’ CH3COONa + H2O + CO2
=


Thanks for the kind words. Now I never said I was right about my
approach, merely describing it. But let add what may have not been so
clear the first time. I use an entire small box of baking soda to
wash the clothes. I don't put the vinegar in till the final rinse.
If that is bad for some reason I'd appreciate it if you'd let me
know. I'm not against changing my method if there's something wrong
with it. I do know though that the number one cleaning ingredient in
the wash is the water, no doubt about that.

TJ

On May 17, 10:10Â*pm, Tommy Joe > wrote:
> On May 17, 9:43Â*pm, Bryan > wrote:
> => The vinegar neutralizes the baking soda. Â*If you really do "use baking
> > soda and vinegar in the wash," that doesn't surprise me, since you're
> > not the brightest bulb on the string.
>
> > NaHCO3 + CH3COOH †’ CH3COONa + H2O + CO2
>
> =
>
> Â* Thanks for the kind words. Â*Now I never said I was right about my
> approach, merely describing it. Â*But let add what may have not been so
> clear the first time. Â*I use an entire small box of baking soda to
> wash the clothes. Â*I don't put the vinegar in till the final rinse.
> If that is bad for some reason I'd appreciate it if you'd let me
> know. Â*I'm not against changing my method if there's something wrong
> with it. Â*I do know though that the number one cleaning ingredient in
> the wash is the water, no doubt about that.

There's nothing wrong with adding a little baking soda or washing soda
if one lives where the water is especially hard, but the right thing
to use to do laundry is store brand, fragrance free laundry detergent,
such as SuperValu's Homelife brand. The water around here is
moderately hard, and I put in a little borax with the detergent. If
you use a front loader, and run it good and full, it makes sense to do
warm wash and warm rinse. A warm rinsed load has far less residual
water in it than a cold rinsed load, such that I really believe that
it doesn't use extra energy, and the clothes rinse cleaner.
To get clothes clean, you need a surfactant, like linear
alkylbenzenesulfonates, not merely a mild alkali. I have no idea why
you'd put vinegar in the rinse unless you just want to go around
smelling like vinegar. Laundry detergent isn't some ripoff conspiracy
to take your cash, but a modern improvement over simple soaps and
alkalis that just plain-assed works better. THe folks who say that
they save a bunch of money by using primitive methods, and that their
clothes turn out just as clean as if they'd used alkylbenzenesulfonate
detergents are full of shit.** I bet most of them are still using top
loaders, which should have been phased out decades ago.

All this said, washing soda is a good, phosphate free, alternative to
trisodium phosphate for washing down walls that are normal dirty
before painting. By normal dirty, I mean not coated with cigarette
smoke or cooking grease. It allows for very minimal use of detergent
in the solution in an application where copious rinsing is
impractical. Wiping down with a *very* light acid solution is great,
and improves bonding.

** Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundry_detergent
>
> TJ

--Bryan

Tommy Joe wrote:

> I use an entire small box of baking soda to
> wash the clothes.

How many baskets full of laundry--10? 15?

Bryan wrote:

> A warm rinsed load has far less residual
> water in it than a cold rinsed load,

How can that be?

"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Bryan wrote:
>
> > A warm rinsed load has far less residual
> > water in it than a cold rinsed load,
>
> How can that be?

I can understand how a warm rinse would be more fluid and maybe leave less
water in a spin cycle. It's a silly concept though. The difference would be
worthless.

Gary

George M. Middius wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
>
>> A warm rinsed load has far less residual
>> water in it than a cold rinsed load,
>
> How can that be?

Fats melt in heat so a hot water rinse also removes anything trapped in
any grease that melts.

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> >> A warm rinsed load has far less residual
> >> water in it than a cold rinsed load,
> >
> > How can that be?
>
> Fats melt in heat so a hot water rinse also removes anything trapped in
> any grease that melts.

Two points:

First, you're implying that detergents don't actually work in cold
water even though they all claim to.

Second, the premise I questioned was "far less residual water". You're
talking about fat, not the same thing as water; and also, how much fat
could you possibly get on your laundry? Do you customarily wipe up
spilled cooking oil with things you're going to launder?

On May 18, 1:08*pm, George M. Middius > wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
> > A warm rinsed load has far less residual
> > water in it than a cold rinsed load,
>
> How can that be?

I don't understand the physics, but do your own comparison. It's
pretty dramatic.

--Bryan

On May 18, 12:52*am, Bryan > wrote:


> THe folks who say that
> they save a bunch of money by using primitive methods, and that their
> clothes turn out just as clean as if they'd used alkylbenzenesulfonate
> detergents are full of shit.** *I bet most of them are still using top
> loaders, which should have been phased out decades ago.



My use of baking soda and vinegar has nothing to do with money
and in fact costs more per load than using commercial laundry soap. I
use a 40 cent box of baking soda and a small plastic 50 cent jar of
vinegar at the rinse. That's a dollar a load, pretty high. I go to
an all nite laundry once a week. Even when I have machines in my
building I choose the commercial laundry because of it's industrial
equipment. I use the biggest front loader and just throw the clothes
in mixed. I don't use bleach. Nothing to do with money, just a
thought I've had before - that there's probably enough soap in the
tubes of the washing machine to do a load without adding any. Water
is the main cleaning agent, isn't it? So I went to this doctor about
4 months ago for a tiny patch of dry skin on my thigh that was
beginning to itch to the point where I couldn't avoid it. The guy
gives me some kind of steroid gel to rub on it and within two days the
swelling is going down, but my arms and shoulders are breaking out
with bumps. I go back to the guy and this time he asks me to take of
my shoes and takes a sample from a bump on my heel that was not there
before I went to him the first time. He comes back after looking at
it (or twiddling his thumbs) and hands me a presciption for Lammasil
and oral steroids and within two days my fingers are cracking open at
all the joints. I found another guy and the stuff seems to be going
away, but there are still remnants, and I think what the second guy
gave me didn't have as much to do with any improvement as me just not
taking what the first guy gave me anymore. Anyway, the experience has
me anxious because I still don't know what caused it, and I believe
the condition will now become an on-again off-again situation, so I
have to play detective since the doctors don't know anything, which I
knew from the start - and hope to find what might cause a flare up.
Laundry soap may not be suspect number one, but it's on the list, and
the list is long.

TJ

On May 18, 2:07*pm, George M. Middius > wrote:
Tommy Joe wrote:


> > * I use an entire small box of baking soda to
> > wash the clothes.


> How many baskets full of laundry--10? 15?



I do my laundry at an all nite laundromat even though there are
a few in this apartment building. I prefer the industrial strength
jobs. Good dryers too. I don't know how many baskets. I do my
laundry once a week. I use the same method I've used for years. I
have an old sheet here that I spread out on the bed, then I pour my
dirty clothes from a large basket onto the sheet, plus whatever other
clothes are hanging around dirty. I fold it at the corners and carry
it like a Santa Claus bag. I put the sheet in with the wash. When
it's done and dried I spread the sheet out on a table and then fold my
clothes onto the sheet before rolling up the four corners and tying
them and swinging it over my back to take to the car or to walk home
with if I'm in a healthy enough mood to feed my masochistic desires
for the day. I don't know by basket count, but it's a large load, and
I do it all in one machine with colors mixed, all cotton type stuff,
nothing delicate. When I'm in the laundry all alone at night, I'm the
only sensitive thing in there.

TJ

George M. Middius wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
>> >> A warm rinsed load has far less residual
>> >> water in it than a cold rinsed load,
>> >
>> > How can that be?
>>
>> Fats melt in heat so a hot water rinse also removes anything trapped in
>> any grease that melts.
>
> Two points:
>
> First, you're implying that detergents don't actually work in cold
> water even though they all claim to.
>
> Second, the premise I questioned was "far less residual water". You're
> talking about fat, not the same thing as water; and also, how much fat
> could you possibly get on your laundry? Do you customarily wipe up
> spilled cooking oil with things you're going to launder?

For some reason I thought the topic had drifted to the rinse-only cycle
of the dish washer.

"Brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:28:57 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Sun, 20 May 2012 15:38:00 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> Janet wrote:
>> > In article >,
>> > says...
>> >> sf > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Fri, 18 May 2012 20:07:23 -0400, S Viemeister
>> >>>> I have a utility room for my washer and dryer. So does my nearest
>> >>>> neighbour, and my cousin down the road...
>> >>> You must be living in American style homes then.
>> >> You're not a proper American until you've breathed the humidity-warm
>> >> cotton-dryer sheet combination in an enclosed tiny laundry room.
>> >
>> > Probably. Why does the USA have such a struggle with basic domestic
>> > technology?
>> >
>> > My dryers have always vented to outdoors so they don't raise the
>> > humity
>> > level indoors.
>> >
>> > Janet (UK)
>>
>> Why do you have better products there? It is extremely annoying.
>>
>Maybe their washers and dryers aren't made in China.

The Europeans have just as much made in China products and probably
more. I'll bet better than 90 of the products sf buys are foreign
made with the vast majority from the orient, she has no choice... very
little manufacturing is conducted in the US anymore... the US hasn't
many working in the skilled trades anymore, the US educational system
doesn't teach how to earn a living... way too many teachers are morons
just like sf... and the school administrators are much dumber. If all
you were taught is how to drive a desk you haven't a very bright
employment future, you may draw good pay for a short while but any
downturn in the economy you'll be the first to be unemployed, and
probably never find a job again at a higher level than toilet janitor.
At some point about forty years ago parents began preaching how they
didn't want their kids to work with their hands like they did...
meanwhile all those skilled trades parents retired comfortably while
their know-nothing-useful kids will end up living in homeless shelters
and spending their energies marching with the POPS (parasite occupier
protesters) and drugging. The European economy ain't doing too good
either, is it... they have even fewer skilled workers. Only Germany
still has many skilled workers, but that's changing too.

-------------------------

70% of European washing machines are made in Italy, 20% in Eastern Europe.

On Mon, 21 May 2012 23:51:48 +0100, "David Storm"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Brooklyn1" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:28:57 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 20 May 2012 15:38:00 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>> Janet wrote:
>>> > In article >,
>>> > says...
>>> >> sf > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Fri, 18 May 2012 20:07:23 -0400, S Viemeister
>>> >>>> I have a utility room for my washer and dryer. So does my nearest
>>> >>>> neighbour, and my cousin down the road...
>>> >>> You must be living in American style homes then.
>>> >> You're not a proper American until you've breathed the humidity-warm
>>> >> cotton-dryer sheet combination in an enclosed tiny laundry room.
>>> >
>>> > Probably. Why does the USA have such a struggle with basic domestic
>>> > technology?
>>> >
>>> > My dryers have always vented to outdoors so they don't raise the
>>> > humity
>>> > level indoors.
>>> >
>>> > Janet (UK)
>>>
>>> Why do you have better products there? It is extremely annoying.
>>>
>>Maybe their washers and dryers aren't made in China.
>
>The Europeans have just as much made in China products and probably
>more. I'll bet better than 90 of the products sf buys are foreign
>made with the vast majority from the orient, she has no choice... very
>little manufacturing is conducted in the US anymore... the US hasn't
>many working in the skilled trades anymore, the US educational system
>doesn't teach how to earn a living... way too many teachers are morons
>just like sf... and the school administrators are much dumber. If all
>you were taught is how to drive a desk you haven't a very bright
>employment future, you may draw good pay for a short while but any
>downturn in the economy you'll be the first to be unemployed, and
>probably never find a job again at a higher level than toilet janitor.
>At some point about forty years ago parents began preaching how they
>didn't want their kids to work with their hands like they did...
>meanwhile all those skilled trades parents retired comfortably while
>their know-nothing-useful kids will end up living in homeless shelters
>and spending their energies marching with the POPS (parasite occupier
>protesters) and drugging. The European economy ain't doing too good
>either, is it... they have even fewer skilled workers. Only Germany
>still has many skilled workers, but that's changing too.
>
>-------------------------
>
>70% of European washing machines are made in Italy, 20% in Eastern Europe.

You mean *assembled* with made in the orient parts... same with US
brand autos. I just love posts from the illiterate *******s.