Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.

Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
top).

Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
Thanks.

On May 30, 12:10*pm, "D. T. Green" > wrote:
>
> Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
> hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>
> Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
> the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
> top).
>
> Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
> Thanks.

>
>
Recipe?

On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:10:12 +0100, "D. T. Green"
> wrote:

> Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
> hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>
Not an expert bread baker here, so I don't know bread terms and I'm
always looking for a crispier crust, so I don't have that too hard
problem... but I think you could use milk instead of water in your
recipe and brush it with butter just before you bake it to make a
softer crust. As far as the concave looks, you let it rise too long -
so it over inflated and "popped" on you. BTDT. Keep a better eye on
it next time and put it into the oven just before you think it has
reached its optimal rise because it keeps rising in the oven. Tastes
just fine, looks like H-E-double hockey sticks.

> Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
> the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
> top).

The heat source might not be as reliable and steady as you think it
is. It could boil down to a thermostat problem which requires a
qualified technician to diagnose and fix.
>
> Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
> Thanks.
>


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:10:12 +0100, "D. T. Green"
> wrote:

>Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
>hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>
>Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
>the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
>top).
>
>Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
>Thanks.
>

The dough may have been over proofed, so instead of giving you oven
spring, it collapsed while baking.

If you suspect this might be the case, the next time, do not use the
clock for your proofing, but instead, examine the dough itself for
signs of a full and adequate proof...when you poke it gently, it will
spring back somewhat. If your finger indentation remains, the loaf is
over proofed.

It takes some patience and practice to learn this, and the obvious
signs can vary somewhat with the type of bread flours and hydration of
your doughs. There is no one way to tell across all the bread recipe
variables.

You can practice your poking skills on the first/bulk proof, too, just
to get used to playing around with the feel and tension and texture of
your dough.

As a rough guide - If you recipe calls for 1 hour of a second proof,
start looking and gently poking at the half hour mark, then every 15
minutes after that.

Boron

On May 30, 1:14*pm, Boron Elgar > wrote:
> On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:10:12 +0100, "D. T. Green"
>
> > wrote:
> >Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
> >hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>
> >Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
> >the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
> >top).
>
> >Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
> >Thanks.
>
> The dough may have been over proofed, so instead of giving you oven
> spring, it collapsed while baking.
>
> If you suspect this might be the case, the next time, do not use the
> clock for your proofing, but instead, examine the dough itself for
> signs of a full and adequate proof...when you poke it gently, it will
> spring back somewhat. If your finger indentation remains, the loaf is
> over proofed.
>
> It takes some patience and practice to learn this, and the obvious
> signs can vary somewhat with the type of bread flours and hydration of
> your doughs. There is no one way to tell across all the bread recipe
> variables.
>
> You can practice your poking skills on the first/bulk proof, too, just
> to get used to playing around with the feel and tension and texture of
> your dough.
>
> As a rough guide - If you recipe calls for 1 hour of a second proof,
> start looking and gently poking at the half hour mark, then every 15
> minutes after that.
>
> Boron

Good info!

On 5/30/2012 10:14 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> The dough may have been over proofed, so instead of giving you oven
> spring, it collapsed while baking.
>
> If you suspect this might be the case, the next time, do not use the
> clock for your proofing, but instead, examine the dough itself for
> signs of a full and adequate proof...when you poke it gently, it will
> spring back somewhat. If your finger indentation remains, the loaf is
> over proofed.
>
> It takes some patience and practice to learn this, and the obvious
> signs can vary somewhat with the type of bread flours and hydration of
> your doughs. There is no one way to tell across all the bread recipe
> variables.
>
> You can practice your poking skills on the first/bulk proof, too, just
> to get used to playing around with the feel and tension and texture of
> your dough.
>
> As a rough guide - If you recipe calls for 1 hour of a second proof,
> start looking and gently poking at the half hour mark, then every 15
> minutes after that.
>
> Boron


Thanks for the info. I did not know you could over-proof bread. Now I
know...

On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:57:42 -1000, dsi1 >
wrote:

> Thanks for the info. I did not know you could over-proof bread. Now I
> know...

It's too cold here for bread to rise in a decent amount of time at
room temperature, so I always use the oven.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 5/30/2012 5:17 PM, sf wrote:
> On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:57:42 -1000, >
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info. I did not know you could over-proof bread. Now I
>> know...
>
> It's too cold here for bread to rise in a decent amount of time at
> room temperature, so I always use the oven.
>

I used the proof setting on my oven this afternoon. Funny that it never
occurred to me to use it. I'm going to use it every time now. The pizza
is in the oven as we speak.

On 5/31/2012 12:26 AM, dsi1 wrote:

> I used the proof setting on my oven this afternoon. Funny that it never
> occurred to me to use it. I'm going to use it every time now. The pizza
> is in the oven as we speak.

My oven is new so I wonder if I have that setting. Oven temps are
digital while range temps have dials. What temp is proofing?

On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:10:12 +0100, "D. T. Green"
> wrote:

>Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
>hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>
>Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
>the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
>top).
>
>Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
>Thanks.
>
The bread dough was over proofed. You let the second rise go too
long. You must learn to check the proof by touching and looking
instead of the clock. Beware, the proofing time will vary because of
ambient temperature, the temperature of the dough when you finished
kneading it, etc. So use your eyes and hands. It is a good idea to
start the oven preheating as soon as you finish shaping the dough,
that way you will be ready to bake whenever the dough is ready.
Janet US

On Wed, 30 May 2012 14:25:32 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:10:12 +0100, "D. T. Green"
> wrote:
>
>>Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
>>hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>>
>>Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
>>the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
>>top).
>>
>>Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
>>Thanks.
>>
>The bread dough was over proofed. You let the second rise go too
>long. You must learn to check the proof by touching and looking
>instead of the clock. Beware, the proofing time will vary because of
>ambient temperature, the temperature of the dough when you finished
>kneading it, etc. So use your eyes and hands. It is a good idea to
>start the oven preheating as soon as you finish shaping the dough,
>that way you will be ready to bake whenever the dough is ready.
>Janet US


We are the Dough Sisters and I endorse this post.

Boron

On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:21:12 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Wed, 30 May 2012 14:25:32 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:10:12 +0100, "D. T. Green"
> wrote:
>>
>>>Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
>>>hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>>>
>>>Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
>>>the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
>>>top).
>>>
>>>Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>The bread dough was over proofed. You let the second rise go too
>>long. You must learn to check the proof by touching and looking
>>instead of the clock. Beware, the proofing time will vary because of
>>ambient temperature, the temperature of the dough when you finished
>>kneading it, etc. So use your eyes and hands. It is a good idea to
>>start the oven preheating as soon as you finish shaping the dough,
>>that way you will be ready to bake whenever the dough is ready.
>>Janet US
>
>
>We are the Dough Sisters and I endorse this post.
>
>Boron
That's catchy. . .I can almost hear some Theme Song developing. :O))
Janet US

"D. T. Green" wrote:
>
> Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
> hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.

I'm no bread expert but every single time I bake some, the crust comes out
hard as a rock. I melt some butter on it right from the oven and stick it in
a plastic bag for a short while. It softens the crust.

Gary

Gary wrote:

> I'm no bread expert but every single time I bake some, the crust comes out
> hard as a rock. I melt some butter on it right from the oven and stick it in
> a plastic bag for a short while. It softens the crust.

You could also spritz the oven with water during baking.

On 5/30/2012 4:30 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> Gary wrote:
>
>> I'm no bread expert but every single time I bake some, the crust comes out
>> hard as a rock. I melt some butter on it right from the oven and stick it in
>> a plastic bag for a short while. It softens the crust.
>
> You could also spritz the oven with water during baking.

But that's what you do to get a crisp crust.

When my white bread's crust came out too hard, I replaced some of the
bread flour with all-purpose flour. If I ever want it softer yet, I
add a tablespoon of butter to the recipe.

Hell Toupee wrote:

> >> I'm no bread expert but every single time I bake some, the crust comes out
> >> hard as a rock. I melt some butter on it right from the oven and stick it in
> >> a plastic bag for a short while. It softens the crust.
> >
> > You could also spritz the oven with water during baking.
>
> But that's what you do to get a crisp crust.

Not for me. It makes for a thinner crust.

> When my white bread's crust came out too hard, I replaced some of the
> bread flour with all-purpose flour. If I ever want it softer yet, I
> add a tablespoon of butter to the recipe.

Another trick is to cover the bread with another pan halfway through
the bake.

Hell Toupee wrote:
>
> On 5/30/2012 4:30 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> > Gary wrote:
> >
> >> I'm no bread expert but every single time I bake some, the crust comes out
> >> hard as a rock. I melt some butter on it right from the oven and stick it in
> >> a plastic bag for a short while. It softens the crust.
> >
> > You could also spritz the oven with water during baking.
>
> But that's what you do to get a crisp crust.
>
> When my white bread's crust came out too hard, I replaced some of the
> bread flour with all-purpose flour. If I ever want it softer yet, I
> add a tablespoon of butter to the recipe.

Hmmmmm

"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Gary wrote:
>
> > I'm no bread expert but every single time I bake some, the crust comes out
> > hard as a rock. I melt some butter on it right from the oven and stick it in
> > a plastic bag for a short while. It softens the crust.
>
> You could also spritz the oven with water during baking.

Thanks George, I'll try that next time I bake some bread. Probably won't be
until next fall. I don't use the oven much during the summer months. 85F
and humid here today. The A/C is running now.

Gary

On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:10:12 +0100, "D. T. Green"
> wrote:

>Our second attempt at making bread turned out with the crust being really
>hard and the top surface being really flat, almost slightly concave.
>
>Yet as far as we can see, the cooking times and settings were the same as
>the previous batch which turned out much better (ie soft crust and rounded
>top).
>
>Grateful to hear what you think might be going on with the second batch.
>Thanks.
>

The two symptoms given are text book for bread dough that is over
risen. I'm also betting the crust was a dull brown or dull grayish
brown.
Put the palm of your hand on the dough after you finish kneading. Feel
it and remember. Throughout the rises, place the palm of your hand on
the dough again and notice the changes. (If you flour your hands
before touching you will not stick,) During the second rise do the
same thing. You should be able to feel when the dough begins to feel
light. Try the finger poke test now. You do not want to allow the
dough to get to the point where it is jiggly or poofy. The dough
needs to grow in the oven -- called 'oven spring.' You do not achieve
all the rise outside the oven.

Janet US